In this extended interview, Margaret Atwood joins Stephen Marche for a wide-ranging, sharp, and often darkly funny conversation on what we can learn from the past when Canadian sovereignty has been threatened by America; how this moment is exceptional; what we might expect in the future. From draft dodgers to free trade, red bonnets to AI servers, Atwood weighs in on where we are—and where we might be headed. Atwood brings sharp insight and surprising optimism to a moment of national reckoning.

A must-listen on sovereignty, survival, and what Canada needs to protect itself from the storm next door. 

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Over the past seven episodes, we’ve tracked Canada’s shocking, painful, and necessary awakening. The threat from America is no longer theoretical—it’s here, it’s real, and we’re not ready.

But something else is happening too. Canadians are responding. Travel boycotts. A rise in patriotism. A new spirit of sovereignty. Because our old relationship with America is over. Our final question to close the series: What does the new normal look like?

In this episode, Stephen Marche speaks with two people who have seen the future from different angles: Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and autocracy expert, Anne Applebaum, and legendary author, Margaret Atwood. Together, they help us sketch out the “new normal”—a world caught between democracy and authoritarianism, and where Canada fits into this new world order.

This is an episode about what’s at stake, what can be built, and why we can’t go back.

Featuring (in order of appearance): Anne Applebaum, Margaret Atwood

Watch an extended version of Stephen's interview with Margaret Atwood on YouTube August 19th.

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In 2013, a Russian journalist walked into a St. Petersburg startup looking for a job. What he found was the frontline of a new kind of war—an information war fought not with bullets but with online chaos.

Today, those tactics have gone global. Online disinformation floods our social feeds, shapes our politics, and fractures our societies. Authoritarian states are waging an invisible war against democracies like Canada, and we’re dangerously unprepared.

Stephen Marche speaks with University of Waterloo's Bessma Momani and Taiwanese fact-checking pioneer Billion Lee to ask the hard questions: How can we stop losing the information war? Do we even stand a chance?

Featuring (in order of appearance): Andrei Soshnikov, Bessma Momani & Billion Lee

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What if we end up in the nightmare scenario: America invades Canada and our military isn't strong enough to resist. Canada gets annexed by force. How do we fight back? What would a Canadian insurgency look like?  

Stephen Marche explores the unthinkable: a military occupation of Canada and the resistance that would surely follow. He speaks with International Security scholar, Aisha Ahmad. We also meet former IRA member, Breige Brownlee, to understand how ordinary people become freedom fighters—and why the most powerful armies in the world can't stop them. 

It’s not fiction if the threat is detectable...

Featuring (in order of appearance): Breige Brownlee, Aisha Ahmad

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For most countries, the military is key to national identity. But Canada's identity has been tied to military contributions to the global order and peacekeeping. Now that's all changed. The world is heating. The North is thawing. The South is melting. How do we defend Canada and not get overtaken?

Stephen Marche heads to the Arctic with Canadian Ranger Neil Kigutaq and speaks with Retired Major General Scott Clancy and Finnish security expert Matti Pesu about how Canada can build up its military and what a whole-of-society defence approach looks like. With military apathy at home and growing instability abroad, it’s time to ask: What will it take for Canadians to finally take our defence seriously? 

Featuring (in order of appearance): MCpl Neil Kigutaq, Major General (ret) Scott Clancy & Matti Pesu

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Living next to a dangerous country is new to us but many countries bordering authoritarian states have a lot of experience. Ukraine has lived in the shadow of a monster its entire existence. What can they teach us?

Ukrainian refugee Viktoriia recalls fleeing war-torn Kherson—offering a sobering reminder of how quickly peace can vanish. Lt. Col. (Ret.) Alexander Vindman and war correspondent Tim Mak unpack what Ukraine got right, what they missed, and what Canada can learn from their ongoing war with Russia. Can we recognize the warning signs of annexation and authoritarianism? Or will we look away—until it’s too late?

Featuring (in order of appearance): Viktoriia, Alexander Vindman & Tim Mak

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A Canadian toy company is on the brink because of US tariffs. Millions in unsold stock. But this isn’t just one company’s problem—it’s Canada’s.  

Stephen Marche digs into the economic war we’re already in with the US. How can we fight against an economy ten times our size, where the tariff goal posts keep moving, and where any brokered deal is a tweet away from becoming meaningless? What are new approaches to doing business in today's climate? Featuring bold ideas from business owner, Zita Cobb, and Chair of Social Capital Partners, Jon Shell. This episode looks at how to build the Canadian economy without dependence on a superpower in chaos.

Featuring (in order of appearance): "Jane", Canadian toy company owner, Zita Cobb & Jon Shell

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A middle-aged graphic designer joins the Canadian Reserves, but her story reveals something bigger: our greatest friend and most important ally, the US, is now threatening our country. How prepared–or unprepared–are we to deal with this threat? Stephen Marche asks a range of Canadian leaders to grade our readiness – politically, economically, militarily. What are our strengths as a country? What are our weaknesses?

Featuring (in order of appearance): Beatrice Winny, Greg Sorbara, Lisa Macleod, Francine Pelletier, Chief Rodger Redman, David Rosenberg, Philippe Lagassé

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Until the second Trump Administration, Canada's relationship to the US has been Robin to its Batman. We've trusted and counted on the US for trade, security, defence, global leadership, and so much more. But now those days are gone. As American democracy unravels and chaos grows, Canada is left exposed and vulnerable not only to the US but to bad actors around the world. With insights from Civil War expert Dr. Barbara F. Walter and former CSIS Agent Neil Bisson, plus chilling stories from Canadians on American soil, host Stephen Marche tries to find out how much trouble Canada is in.

Featuring (in order of appearance): Anonymous Expat Canadian, Bob Ezrin, Jasmine Mooney, Barbara F. Walter & Neil Bisson

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Welcome to Gloves Off, a podcast about the threat to Canada’s sovereignty and what we can do about it. Hosted by Stephen Marche. Gloves Off is Canadian Realpolitik – what are the dangers we face and how do we avoid them? We break down the critical issues with outspoken experts and thinkers, as well as everyday Canadians.

The Gloves come off on Canada Day, Tuesday, July 1st. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. 

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