In this episode of 'Good Ideas + Bad Decisions,' Kat and Ellen talk to Dayna DeStefano, an entrepreneur who has launched and sunset multiple ventures since leaving corporate product leadership in 2019. Dayna shares how that winding path led her to co-own her husband's family commercial cleaning business and now spearhead an acquisition strategy through CleanCo Holdings, buying up complementary building service businesses and integrating them with centralized operations and data. She also offers her advice to founders: design your career around your own blueprint, stay simple and focused, and act on what you feel called to do. 

Dayna DeStefano has spent nearly 20 years building brands and businesses, from serving as VP of Product at a digital media company acquired by Gary Vaynerchuk to founding multiple ventures, including a branding agency, a consulting company, and a tech literacy media company for women. Today, she splits her time between advising select founders and small business owners on go-to-market strategy and AI implementation, co-owning a portfolio of commercial building services businesses with her husband, and building The Business of Energy, where she writes about using energy as a navigation system for life and work. 

Kat is the Founder of kat&co, a Creative Operations Consultant, and the Co-Owner and Director of Operations at Benchwork Fabrication. She helps interior designers and creatives turn ideas into streamlined, sustainable businesses. With a background in psychology and deep experience in creative business operations, she’s known for navigating the intersection of creativity and systems with both strategy and empathy. Join her newsletter, The kat&co Download.

Ellen Hockley is a three-time entrepreneur, small business consultant, community builder, and the founder of Ellen Hockley Consulting and SAGE Women. She guides female founders to build intuitive, values-driven businesses aligned with the life they want for themselves and their families. Join her Substack newsletter, ⁠The Quiet Wins⁠.

00:00 Podcast Welcome

01:01 Meet Dayna

02:35 Entrepreneur Origin Story

03:11 Agency Success and Burnout

03:44 Web3 Experiment Unblocked

04:43 Co-Founder and New Baby Pivot

05:36 Boring Business Big Money

06:48 AI for Small Business Ops

08:20 Working With Your Spouse

10:52 Commercial Cleaning Niches

12:19 Recession Proof Lessons

13:05 Rinse and Repeat Expansion

14:47 Scaling Local vs National

17:35 Growth Options Ahead

18:14 Roll Up Strategy Focus

19:47 Boomer Seller Deals

23:54 Integrating Acquisitions

28:24 Tech Stack And AI Data

32:02 Selling Data To Robotics

35:33 What Drives Dayna

41:33 Parting Wisdom And Future

44:12 Where To Find Dayna

45:23 Episode Wrap Up

In this mini-episode of ‘Good Ideas + Bad Decisions,’ Kat and Ellen discuss how small-town dynamics can intensify business relationships and conflicts. Ellen shares a conflict in her business community and she and Kat conclude that Ellen should focus on showing up authentically rather than dwelling on the conflict. Kat also talks about launching her fabrication company Benchwork with two former coworkers and anticipating a difficult reaction from their previous boss, while the episode briefly touches on automation services and Ellen's email and domain forwarding issues. 

Don't forget to⁠ submit your business questions⁠ for future episodes! 

Kat is the Founder of kat&co, a Creative Operations Consultant, and the Co-Owner and Director of Operations at Benchwork Fabrication. She helps interior designers and creatives turn ideas into streamlined, sustainable businesses. With a background in psychology and deep experience in creative business operations, she’s known for navigating the intersection of creativity and systems with both strategy and empathy. Join her newsletter, The kat&co Download.

Ellen Hockley is a three-time entrepreneur, small business consultant, community builder, and the founder of Ellen Hockley Consulting and SAGE Women. She guides female founders to build intuitive, values-driven businesses aligned with the life they want for themselves and their families. Join her Substack newsletter, ⁠The Quiet Wins⁠.

In this episode of 'Good Ideas + Bad Decisions,' hosts Kat and Ellen talk to Emily Bissen, founder of Blue Heron Business Partners, whose work sits at the intersection of business opportunity strategy and human design. Emily, a self-described 4/1 manifesting generator, explains how discovering her own human design gave language to skills she'd always had: reading people, spotting opportunities, and making the right connections at the right time.

The conversation gets into the tension between prescribed entrepreneurial playbooks and trusting a more personalized approach, including the permission it takes to set boundaries, walk away from misaligned work, and build a business around what actually matters.

Emily Bissen is a Business Opportunity Strategist and Super Connector who helps talented, driven business owners stop spinning their wheels and start moving. Using each client's unique Human Design, she creates strategies built for how they're wired rather than forcing someone else's playbook.

Find Emily on LinkedIn or visit her at blueheronbusinesspartners.com.

Kat is the Founder of kat&co, a Creative Operations Consultant, and the Co-Owner and Director of Operations at Benchwork Fabrication. She helps interior designers and creatives turn ideas into streamlined, sustainable businesses. With a background in psychology and deep experience in creative business operations, she’s known for navigating the intersection of creativity and systems with both strategy and empathy. Join her newsletter, The kat&co Download.

Ellen Hockley is a three-time entrepreneur, small business consultant, community builder, and the founder of Ellen Hockley Consulting and SAGE Women. She guides female founders to build intuitive, values-driven businesses aligned with the life they want for themselves and their families. Join her Substack newsletter, ⁠The Quiet Wins⁠.

00:00 Podcast Welcome
01:22 Meet Emily Beeson
02:00 Human Design Basics
04:25 Retreat Spark Story
05:39 Using Design With Clients
08:37 Starting Her Business
11:05 Ditching Others Playbooks
14:25 Offers And Containers
18:04 Time Freedom With Kids
20:28 Teachers To Entrepreneurs
22:53 Ditching the Playbook
23:48 Permission to Choose
26:20 Boundaries and Availability
28:28 Permission to Quit
29:01 Human Design Deep Dive
30:29 Energy and Grounding
34:50 Decision Making Styles
40:35 Oldest Daughter Patterns
42:56 Building a Support Village
44:25 Get Curious Closing
46:00 Where to Find Emily
46:45 Podcast Sign Off

In this mini-episode of 'Good Ideas + Bad Decisions,' Kat and Ellen discuss a book, "This Story Might Save Your Life," that mirrors their own podcast experience, then debate whether audiobooks count as reading (spoiler: Kat and Ellen agree that they do). They also explore how to make networking feel less awkward through clear purpose, low barriers, casual formats, and community containers where members can genuinely support one another.

Don't forget to⁠⁠ submit your business questions⁠⁠ for future episodes! 

Kat is the Founder of ⁠kat&co⁠, a Creative Operations Consultant, and the Co-Owner and Director of Operations at ⁠Benchwork Fabrication⁠. She helps interior designers and creatives turn ideas into streamlined, sustainable businesses. With a background in psychology and deep experience in creative business operations, she’s known for navigating the intersection of creativity and systems with both strategy and empathy. Join her newsletter, ⁠The kat&co Download⁠.

Ellen Hockley is a three-time entrepreneur, small business consultant, community builder, and the founder of ⁠Ellen Hockley Consulting⁠ and ⁠SAGE Women⁠. She guides female founders to build intuitive, values-driven businesses aligned with the life they want for themselves and their families. Join her Substack newsletter,⁠ ⁠The Quiet Wins⁠⁠.

In this episode of 'Good Ideas + Bad Decisions,' hosts Kat and Ellen sit down with Emily Oberman, founder of The Content Atelier, a copywriter and content strategist who built a boutique agency around long-form content, newsletters (including Substack), and podcast support after recognizing a gap in the market for writers who actually understand the nuance of founder-led storytelling. The conversation spans remote work, packaging services as a generalist, navigating AI, a tough 2025 economy, and her advice to founders.

Emily Oberman is a copywriter, content strategist, and founder of The Content Atelier, a boutique content marketing agency that focuses on long-form content. She has over 10 years of experience in content and systems strategy and has ghostwritten for over 150 individuals and brands. Her clients consider her their digital Mary Poppins.

Kat is the Founder of kat&co, a Creative Operations Consultant, and the Co-Owner and Director of Operations at Benchwork Fabrication. She helps interior designers and creatives turn ideas into streamlined, sustainable businesses. With a background in psychology and deep experience in creative business operations, she’s known for navigating the intersection of creativity and systems with both strategy and empathy. Join her newsletter, The kat&co Download.

Ellen Hockley is a three-time entrepreneur, small business consultant, community builder, and the founder of Ellen Hockley Consulting and SAGE Women. She guides female founders to build intuitive, values-driven businesses aligned with the life they want for themselves and their families. Join her Substack newsletter, ⁠The Quiet Wins⁠.

00:00 Podcast Welcome

00:47 Chaotic Catch Up

01:27 Meet Emily Oberman

03:11 Long Form Content Focus

04:24 Substack Versus Blogs

07:06 Podcast Strategy Work

07:42 From Corporate To Remote

08:27 Commuting And Childcare

11:02 Remote Agency To Solo

11:55 Imaginary Friends Origin

13:35 Digital Mary Poppins Brand

16:46 AI And Marketing Ops

19:40 Clients Using AI Drafts

22:27 Why And Who First

24:48 Values Driven Services

25:43 Pricing For Small Business

27:00 Choosing Tools By Values

28:59 Claude Versus ChatGPT

30:18 Generalist Boundaries

31:53 Intuition And Human Design

33:41 Remote Work Setup

37:19 Contractors And Volatility

41:34 Female Founder Stigma

43:50 Advice And Wrap Up

In this mini-episode of ‘Good Ideas + Bad Decisions,’ Kat and Ellen discuss Kat’s first hypnosis session with Kelly Chessen of Hope Rd. Hypnosis that focused on her relationship with money. Kat describes a guided visualization exercise involving inviting past influences on money to a mental table, confronting negative associations, inner-child emotions, and asking money what it needs. Kat feels empowered by her takeaway about using money for creativity, joy, and connection and notes new opportunities arising. They close by discussing how to talk with clients about money, pricing, and boundaries.

Don't forget to⁠ submit your business questions⁠ for future episodes! 

Kat is the Founder of kat&co, a Creative Operations Consultant, and the Co-Owner and Director of Operations at Benchwork Fabrication. She helps interior designers and creatives turn ideas into streamlined, sustainable businesses. With a background in psychology and deep experience in creative business operations, she’s known for navigating the intersection of creativity and systems with both strategy and empathy. Join her newsletter, The kat&co Download.

Ellen Hockley is a three-time entrepreneur, small business consultant, community builder, and the founder of Ellen Hockley Consulting and SAGE Women. She guides female founders to build intuitive, values-driven businesses aligned with the life they want for themselves and their families. Join her Substack newsletter, ⁠The Quiet Wins⁠.

In this episode of 'Good Ideas + Bad Decisions,' hosts Kat and Ellen welcome Vicky Winkler, founder of Wildly Creative Wellness, an art journaling and creative wellness community. Vicky shares how art journaling helped her move from feeling "only okay" to finding real purpose and fulfillment. She describes art journaling as focused on process over outcome with no perfectionism required, and explains how that mindset can build confidence to experiment in other areas of life too. She outlines her Wildly Creative’s monthly themes, weekly prompts, live creation calls, and co-working sessions, and the group discusses why rigid routines like The Artist's Way can fall short and how to start simply instead.

Vicky Winkler is the founder of Wildly Creative Wellness, a space where everyday people discover that creativity has always lived inside them. Through art journaling workshops, online retreats, and one on one support, she helps people slow down, reconnect with themselves, and find fulfillment through self-expression. Her work is rooted in the belief that making art isn’t just for “artists.” It’s for anyone who wants to feel more alive.

Kat is the Founder of kat&co, a Creative Operations Consultant, and the Co-Owner and Director of Operations at Benchwork Fabrication. She helps interior designers and creatives turn ideas into streamlined, sustainable businesses. With a background in psychology and deep experience in creative business operations, she’s known for navigating the intersection of creativity and systems with both strategy and empathy. Join her newsletter, The kat&co Download.

Ellen Hockley is a three-time entrepreneur, small business consultant, community builder, and the founder of Ellen Hockley Consulting and SAGE Women. She guides female founders to build intuitive, values-driven businesses aligned with the life they want for themselves and their families. Join her Substack newsletter, ⁠The Quiet Wins⁠.

00:00 Podcast Welcome

01:09 Meet Vicky Winkler

02:34 Why Art Journaling

04:59 Perfectionism Blocks

06:26 Journal Not Canvas

08:00 Creative Without Selling

10:36 Membership Breakdown

14:07 Calls And Sanctuary

15:20 Artists Way Debate

20:06 Five Minute Practice

21:17 Tools For Regulation

23:51 No Rules Mindset

25:30 Leap of Faith Art

25:49 Cortisol and Creativity

26:42 Blank Page Tricks

27:27 Five Minute Time Paradox

28:45 Timers Flow and Breaks

32:03 Finding Art Journaling

35:01 Creative Identity Blocks

36:35 Easy Supplies to Start

38:56 Healing Through Drawing

42:18 Try It and Connect

43:38 Episode Wrap Up

In this mini-episode of “Good Ideas + Bad Decisions,” Kat and Ellen dive into the topic of discovery calls and networking. Kat walks through her approach of offering a single free 30-minute call for prospective clients, collaborators, and general connections alike. Kat and Ellen address client fit, barters and trades, and keeping up a connection. The episode also explores the value of maintaining boundaries, being intentional about how time is given, and keeping follow-up communication clear and straightforward.

Don't forget to⁠ submit your business questions⁠ for future episodes! 

Kat is the Founder of kat&co, a Creative Operations Consultant, and the Co-Owner and Director of Operations at Benchwork Fabrication. She helps interior designers and creatives turn ideas into streamlined, sustainable businesses. With a background in psychology and deep experience in creative business operations, she’s known for navigating the intersection of creativity and systems with both strategy and empathy. Join her newsletter, The kat&co Download.

Ellen Hockley is a three-time entrepreneur, small business consultant, community builder, and the founder of Ellen Hockley Consulting and SAGE Women. She guides female founders to build intuitive, values-driven businesses aligned with the life they want for themselves and their families. Join her Substack newsletter, ⁠The Quiet Wins⁠.

In this episode of ‘Good Ideas + Bad Decisions,’ Kat and Ellen talk with Natasha Golinsky, who built a web development agency by hiring a developer despite having no web experience herself. After a stage two breast cancer diagnosis in 2024, she onboarded a trusted former client as project manager, freeing her to focus on business development. Natasha now pursues thought leadership around trauma-informed leadership for female founders, using nervous-system work to overcome personal blocks. She offers her wisdom on entrepreneurship and healing as well as specific advice on how and why to delegate. 

Natasha Golinsky has spent over a decade as CEO of On Purpose Projects, a full-stack web development agency. When she returned after chemo, her team was thriving without her, and she finally stepped into what she'd been doing behind the scenes for years. Natasha spent years learning somatic healing and nervous system regulation, tools she'd shared with peers for years before cancer gave her the space to do it professionally. Through her company Never Launch on a Friday, she works with female agency owners and service-based founders on the inner work that strategy alone can't fix. She used to support the web project. Now she supports the woman behind the business.

Kat is the Founder of kat&co, a Creative Operations Consultant, and the Co-Owner and Director of Operations at Benchwork Fabrication. She helps interior designers and creatives turn ideas into streamlined, sustainable businesses. With a background in psychology and deep experience in creative business operations, she’s known for navigating the intersection of creativity and systems with both strategy and empathy. Join her newsletter, The kat&co Download.

Ellen Hockley is a three-time entrepreneur, small business consultant, community builder, and the founder of Ellen Hockley Consulting and SAGE Women. She guides female founders to build intuitive, values-driven businesses aligned with the life they want for themselves and their families. Join her Substack newsletter, ⁠The Quiet Wins⁠.

00:00 Podcast Welcome

01:15 Meet The Guest

01:56 Coffee And Anxiety

02:40 First Espresso Story

04:52 Agency Origin Story

06:51 Cancer Diagnosis Shock

07:58 Emergency Team Handoff

09:56 Returning To Work

11:18 New Path After Ops

13:47 Trauma Informed Leadership

15:44 Content Creation Breakthrough

20:51 Human Design And Community

24:18 Human Design Validation

24:34 Weekly Structure Planning

25:51 Hunter vs Farmer Marketing

28:18 Delegation and Team Fit

31:16 Simple Systems That Stick

34:23 Vision Board and Next Moves

37:03 Selling the Agency Soon

39:00 Planning in Uncertain Times

42:58 Final Wisdom on Healing

In this mini-episode of 'Good Ideas + Bad Decisions,' Kat and Ellen catch up on Ellen’s recent London trip, where she visited a friend who works at the British Museum, and Kat shares she’s heading to a women’s business retreat in Point Reyes where she’ll lead a workshop on flexible business systems. They then discuss how they handle being out of office: evolving boundaries over time, communicating availability case by case with clients, relying on standard boundaries (like not replying on certain days), remembering most issues aren’t true emergencies, and taking real breaks to avoid burnout.

Don't forget to⁠ submit your business questions⁠ for future episodes! 

Kat is the Founder of kat&co, a Creative Operations Consultant, and the Co-Owner and Director of Operations at Benchwork Fabrication. She helps interior designers and creatives turn ideas into streamlined, sustainable businesses. With a background in psychology and deep experience in creative business operations, she’s known for navigating the intersection of creativity and systems with both strategy and empathy. Join her newsletter, The kat&co Download.

Ellen Hockley is a three-time entrepreneur, small business consultant, community builder, and the founder of Ellen Hockley Consulting and SAGE Women. She guides female founders to build intuitive, values-driven businesses aligned with the life they want for themselves and their families. Join her Substack newsletter, ⁠The Quiet Wins⁠.