Gray Matters

Judge Glock, director of research at the Manhattan Institute, discussed his new article about what DOGE achieved with Jace Lington. Glock argued that if you set aside the inflated rhetoric about cost savings, DOGE actually made significant cuts to the size of the federal workforce. They talk about civil service reform, USAID and IRS debates, and which reforms could endure, while distinguishing measurable operational effects from policy disagreements. 

Show notes: 

• YouTube version
• DOGE Achieved More Than You Think, Judge Glock
• The Origins of the Novice Administrative State, Judge Glock
• Reflections on Civil Service Reform, Ronald A. Cass
• From Merit to Expertise and Back: The Evolution of the U.S. Civil Service System, Joseph Postell

Jace Lington speaks with Rupert Darwall about his new book, The Age of Error and the West's Undoing. In the book, Darwall argues that Western leaders doubled down on policies to fight climate change after the 2008 financial crisis, which led to a clash between environmentalism and geopolitics. He also makes the case that politicians became codependent on experts (central bankers, climate scientists, and public health officials) in ways that undermine democratic accountability and lead to worse policy outcomes.

Show notes: 

• YouTube version
• Rupert's Book

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In the keynote panel from the Gray Center's May conference, moderator Adam White (Gray Center, AEI) speaks with Michael Williams (West Virginia Solicitor General) and Matt Leopold (Holland & Knight and former EPA General Counsel) about federal energy and environmental regulation, focusing on the Supreme Court’s pending Suncor v. City of Boulder case and broader post-Chevron litigation dynamics.

The case concerns whether state tort law can be used to impose liability for climate change damages and effectively regulate interstate emissions, raising preemption and territorial-jurisdiction concerns. The discussion covers potential federal common law and Clean Air Act preemption, limits on extraterritorial regulation, and skepticism of Dormant Commerce Clause arguments. They connect these issues to the EPA’s current deregulatory efforts, the end of Chevron deference after Loper Bright, and questions about Mass. v. EPA.

Show notes: 

• YouTube version
• 2024 Gray Center webinar on Federal Preemption and Environmental Regulation
• 2024 Gray Matters Episode about the Role of State Tort Law in the World of Climate Lawsuits and Federalism

In this panel discussion, moderator Aaron Nielson (University of Texas at Austin) speaks with Michael Buschbacher (Boyden Gray PLLC), Matt Gregory (Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP), and Stephanie Maloney (U.S. Chamber Litigation Center) about legal remedies and the state of strategic litigation against agencies.

Show notes:  
YouTube version

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Oklahoma Secretary of Energy and Environment Jeff Starling and the Fulcrum Foundation’s Reeve Bull discuss a new regulatory reform pilot project in Oklahoma. They share how Oklahoma is using AI to reform regulatory processes, reduce costs, and improve efficiency in government. 
 
Show notes:  
Reeve T. Bull, “Oklahoma is Leading the Way on AI-Powered Regulatory and Permitting Reform” 

Jace Lington and Bennett Nuss talk with NCLA President and Chief Legal Officer Mark Chenoweth about the evolving landscape of injunctions in the legal system, particularly in light of recent cases likeTrump v. CASA. They explore the definition and function of injunctions, the surge of nationwide injunctions during the Trump administration, and the implications of forum shopping in legal proceedings. The conversation also delves into the role of the Administrative Procedure Act in judicial review and the strategic maneuvers of agencies to circumvent judicial oversight.

• Check out NCLA's latest cases here
  
  
• "The Truth of Erasure: Universal Remedies for Universal Agency Actions," by T. Elliot Gaiser, Mathura Sridharan, and Nicholas Cordova
  
  
• "Nationwide Injunctions' Governance Problems: Forum-Shopping, Politicizing Courts, and Eroding Constitutional Structure," Ronald A. Cass
  
  
• "How Should the Court Respond to the Combination of Political Polarity, Legislative Impotence, and Executive Branch Overreach?" Richard J. Pierce, Jr.

Adam White, Jace Lington, and Bennett Nuss analyze the recent Supreme Court decisions in Trump v. Slaughter and Trump v. Cook, focusing on the implications for executive power, administrative agency independence, and the future of administrative law.

• Adam White in SCOTUSblog
  
• Aditya Bamzai & Aaron Nielson on the Fed and Article II at The Cornell Law Review
  

Adam White hosts Chief Judge Susan G. Braden (Ret.) to discuss the Supreme Court’s decision in Trump v. Slaughter, which held the Federal Trade Commission’s statutory independence unconstitutional and explicitly overruled Humphrey’s Executor. Braden argues the ruling will ripple across administrative law by treating agencies with authority to file lawsuits on behalf of the United States as executive agencies subject to presidential control, and by limiting “independent” agencies to advisory roles.

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• Judge Braden's paper on the future of the FTC
• Adam White's analysis of Slaughter and Cook in SCOTUSblog

In this first panel from the Gray Center’s May conference, moderator Christopher J. Walker (University of Michigan) speaks with Megan Brown (Wiley Rein LLP), Roman Martinez (Latham & Watkins LLP), and Maria Monaghan (U.S. Chamber Litigation Center) about what courts are doing after Chevron’s overruling in Loper Bright. They discuss unresolved issues now playing out in lower courts, including Skidmore’s role, congressional delegation and “policymaking discretion,” stare decisis for prior Chevron-era precedents, and implications for other deference doctrines like Auer/Kisor.

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In this final panel from the Gray Center’s October conference, moderator Aaron Nielsen (UT Austin) speaks with Judge Naomi Rao (D.C. Circuit) and Judge Steven Menashi (Second Circuit) about their role as judges after Loper Bright ended Chevron deference. Rao and Menashi describe their interpretive approaches—text-first, but attentive to context, structure, statutory purpose, and legal terms of art—and emphasize that interpretation involves judgment. They argueLoper Bright largely restores courts’ independent duty to decide questions of law under the APA, while still allowing agencies discretion where statutes leave open-textured implementation choices or explicit delegations. The panel discusses D.C. Circuit practices, post–Loper Bright arguments about expertise, “express delegation,” Skidmore, forum shopping, major questions doctrine, scientific complexity, and how the debate may shift toward Article I and nondelegation.

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