Great Security Debate

This week, Brian, Erik, and Dan look into the security impacts of last week’s Silicon Valley Bank closure, both from a direct security risk, but also what we can learn about risk from the events leading up to the incident that we can apply to our information security responsibilities.

Brian kicks it off with a great description of how Silicon Valley Bank got here (based on what we knew on 12 March 2023 - subject to change as more becomes known after). And from that, we go some of the direct and indirect lessons and implications such as:

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• Fraud attempts amongst a bevvy of legitimate bank account payment change requests from companies. Check from a known source before changing where you pay.
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• Putting all your eggs into one (infosec or financial) basket can be risky. And risk can bring great rewards, or great resentment
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• Evaluating vendors for where they bank as part of third party risk management (or not)
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• Clear insight to tough choices that have to be made to keep small business and startups running - sometimes that’s not “doing every thing of security”
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• Business continuity planning requires a more realistic “yeah that could happen” when doing the review
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• Remember that there is no such thing as no risk, just determining the right balance of (realistic) risk and downtime for your organisation
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• If one vendor goes away suddenly, what happens? What about if 6 go away all at once?
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• Diversity of suppliers vs. focusing on basics in the security stack
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Along with some strong recommendations (or maybe they are warnings) for our security vendor listeners on how not to use this incident as a sales tool (tl;dr: DON’T!), there are a few correlations to the automotive industry. And check out the book club recommendations in the show notes on our website www.greatsecuritydebate.net, too.

Since we recorded another bank, Signature Bank, has also been closed and placed into receivership. On behalf of all of us at Great Security Debate, we wish all those affected either as companies of these banks or their customers good wishes and hope for good news ahead on the recovery of funds.

Thanks for listening!

Support The Great Security Debate

Links:

• The Demise of Silicon Valley Bank - by Marc Rubinstein
• All the Devils Are Here: A Novel (Chief Inspector Gamache Novel Book 16) - Kindle edition by Penny, Louise. Mystery, Thriller & Suspense Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.
• Silicon Valley Bank profit squeeze in tech dip attracts short sellers | Financial Post
• The Tenth Man Rule - Principle Explained
• The Innovator's Dilemma: The Revolutionary Book That Will Change the Way You Do Business: Christensen, Clayton M.: 8601300047348: Amazon.com: Books — https://amzn.to/3LcZKvT
• The Innovator's Dilemma: The Revolutionary Book That Will Change the Way You Do Business: Christensen, Clayton M.: 8601300047348: Amazon.com: Books

The Great Security Debate Book Club is in FULL force this week as we talk about life after you’ve gotten the job in information security and are looking for the growth and promotion that come as you grow your career.

Check out the show notes on our website www.greatsecuritydebate.net/48 to get links to all the books, articles, and references we discuss up through the show.

A mere appetiser sized sampling of the topics we cover in this hour include:

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• What does it mean to “return to normal” in work in 2023?
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• How do you grow in your role once you are in the Infosec field?
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• The “old-man” perspective on entitlement in growing within jobs
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• What approaches work (and don’t work) when asking for promotions, raises, new roles, within your organisation
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• Conversely, how to approach getting responsibilities added with out getting additional compensation
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• Using the word “I” vs “We” when talking about a job and your team
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• What to consider the factors and risks outside the office when looking at role and organisational growth
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• The importance of knowing the difference between what you want to say vs how it will be received when read by the recipient
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• What do you do when you find yourself as (or think you are) the smartest person in the room?
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• What resources can people use to get ready for their next growth step at work?
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• How can networking and mentoring be valuable to find the next position?
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Since it came up a few times in the show, remember that not every securty career path ends with becoming a CISO, or nor should we expect that everyone in infosec wants to become a CISO!

We also have a video channel on YouTube that airs the "with pictures" edition of the podcast. Please head to https://youtube.com/@greatsecuritydebate and watch, subscribe and "like" the episodes.

Some of the links in the show notes contain affiliate links that may earn a commission should you choose to make a purchase using these links. Using these links supports The Great Security Debate, so we appreciate it when you use them. We do not make our recommendations based on the availability or benefits of these affiliate links.

Thanks for listening!

Support The Great Security Debate

Links:

• High-Earning Men Are Cutting Back on Their Working Hours - WSJ
• Census: Michigan's population drops again for 2nd consecutive year
• 5 Whys - Getting to the Root of a Problem Quickly
• Little Giants: 10 Hispanic Women Who Made History: Calderon, Raynelda A., Donna, Wiscombe: 9781733139229: Amazon.com: Books
• Amazon.com: True North, Emerging Leader Edition: Leading Authentically in Today's Workplace eBook : Clayton, Zach, George, Bill, Gergen, David: Kindle Store
• Amazon.com : never split the difference book
• Amazon.com: Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It eBook : Voss, Chris, Raz, Tahl: Kindle Store
• Michigan becomes 14th state to mandate personal finance education
• Amazon.com: Crucial Conversations Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High, Second Edition eBook : Patterson, Kerry, Grenny, Joseph, McMillan, Ron, Switzler, Al: Kindle Store
• Amazon.com: Crucial Confrontations: Tools for Talking About Broken Promises, Violated Expectations, and Bad Behavior (Audible Audio Edition): Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, Al Switzler, Barrett Whitener, McGraw Hill-Ascent Audio: Books
• Amazon.com: Slumdog Millionaire [Blu-ray] : Boyle, Danny, Patel, Dev, Pinto, Freida, Khan, Irrfan, Kapoor, Anil, Shukla, Saurabh, Zutshi, Raj, Talwar, Jeneva, Aggarwal, Sunil, Ismail, Azharuddin Mohammed, Khedekar, Ayush Mahesh: Movies & TV
• Amazon.com: Quiz Show : Ralph Fiennes, John Turturro, Hank Azaria, Rob Morrow, David Paymer, Allan Rich, Paul Scofield, Christopher McDonald, Johann Carlo, Mira Sorvino, Elizabeth Wilson, Griffin Dunne, Timothy Busfield, Martin Scorsese, Barry Levinson, Robert Redford, Paul Attanasio: Movies & TV
• MentorCore – Growth and Development at your Fingertips
• MentorCore Slack — Join the Slack
• Michigan Council of Women in Technology Foundation / Michigan council of women in technology foundation

Insurance for information security is changing. Recently some reports came out that there were moves by insurance companies to leave the cybersecurity insurance market - that it was uninsurable. Dan, Brian, and Erik discuss on this week's Great Security Debate:

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• What happens now that cybersecurity insurance is built into contracts and requirements by customers doing business with other companies?
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• Are the carveouts such that it’s easier to just pay and not inform insurance that you want them to pay for the incident?
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• Does having “easy” insurance give too many orgs a pass on having to actually improve their security control sets?
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• How do insurance “formularies” make companies less secure by not letting them buy the newer, better technologies?
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• Conversely, how does the formulary of products help prevent from buying junk tech that calls itself “security”?
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• How does the threat of nonpayment of expenses and losses by insurance companies after the fact affect organisational security decisions for or against the formulary?
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• How is relying on insurance to determine tech standards the same as the EU demanding all chargers be USB-C?
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• Does insurance go away altogether? Do we want it to go away?
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• What is the law of the horse and how does it apply to insurance in information security?
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• Can shifting downstream supplier risk into insurance really work to reduce risk?
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• Is security a cost centre, a cost of doing business, or a potential profit centre for orgs?
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• Should we shift from insurance mandate to “figure it out”
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• How does the conscious decision not to patch because the patch causes worse issues affect the insurance coverage?
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• How can we balance the expectation with our technology suppliers to maintain support longer, especially on IOT or high-cost, long life devices?
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• Can a move toward clear, yet broad expectations on controls be enough to meet security expectations for insurance without prescriptive formularies of technology and process?
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We also have a video channel on YouTube that airs the "with pictures" edition of the podcast. Please head to https://youtube.com/@greatsecuritydebate and watch, subscribe and "like" the episodes.

Some of the links in the show notes contain affiliate links that may earn a commission should you choose to make a purchase using these links. Using these links supports The Great Security Debate, so we appreciate it when you use them. We do not make our recommendations based on the availability or benefits of these affiliate links.

Thanks for listening!

Support The Great Security Debate

Links:

• Large Insurer Says Cyber Attacks Are Becoming 'Uninsurable'
• 3 Times Businesses Were Denied Cyber Insurance Payouts. | Managed IT
• USB-type C to become EU's common charger by end of 2024 | News | European Parliament
• Rackspace: Ransomware Attack Bypassed ProxyNotShell Mitigations
• Arlo Is Ending Support For Its Old Cameras & Customers Aren't Happy
• CISA’s Jen Easterly: Tech Companies Should Deploy Software Offerings That Are "Secure by Design"

Welcome to the year-end 2022 episode of The Great Security Debate.

In this hour, Brian, Erik, and Dan cover myriad ways hiring processes are failing job seekers and hiring organisations. It all kicked off with the impersonal nature of automated 1-way video interviews. It quickly jumped into the myriad of other ways we can do better on both sides, including (but not limited to):

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• Do video interviews encourage fraud? Multiple jobs for one person? A fake version of you applying for a job?
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• Why are hiring managers and HR using video interviews? Are there legitimate reasons?
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• Does the lack of ability to assess the candidate’s response to the interviewer’s response makes the interview less effective?
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• What is the impression left when a candidate is immediately rejected based on analytics and matching, not human interaction?
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• What’s the value of using your network around a broken applicant system? What do we lose by only depending on our networks for hiring?
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• How do these recorded methods exclude introverts and others that may not be camera comfortable in their presentation skills?
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• Can and should there be roles for people at higher levels that don’t include people management?
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• Is “AI” (term used in quotes on purpose) really the antithesis of diversity or inclusion?
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• How is connecting people to others and helping them expand their networks better than sending resumes to people you know?
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• In times of cash crunch, will hiring come from experienced people having been let go from roles, or hiring entry-level and ups killing them?
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You’ll also get a few mentions of Buzzword Bingo; the shocking revelation that Brian works for a vendor; and Dan goes on a tirade about new software that does recording and analysis in Zoom meetings with and without permission. It’s another great debate!

We also have a video channel on YouTube that airs the "with pictures" edition of the podcast. Please head to https://youtube.com/@greatsecuritydebate and watch, subscribe and "like" the episodes.

Some of the links in the show notes contain affiliate links that may earn a commission should you choose to make a purchase using these links. Using these links supports The Great Security Debate, so we appreciate it when you use them. We do not make our recommendations based on the availability or benefits of these affiliate links.

Thanks for listening!

Support The Great Security Debate

Links:

• Our Love-Hate Relationship With Security Certifications
• Cyber Certifications - The Self Licking Ice Cream Cone of Misery
• The Great Security Debate Episode 45: Live From the Big House
• The Great Security Debate Episode 43: New Team, Who Dis?
• Michigan Council of Women in Technology Foundation / Michigan council of women in technology foundation
• Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking: Cain, Susan: 9780307352156: Amazon.com: Books
• Check Out How Tesla's In-Cabin Camera Analyses Your Face
• Evil Call Recording Software: Rated #1 By Sales Pros | Gong
• David Franco | LinkedIn
• Living & Learning Enrichment Center
• Alexa, how did Amazon’s voice assistant rack up a $10bn loss? | John Naughton | The Guardian

Recorded on Saturday 29 October 2022, at the tailgate before the University of Michigan vs Michigan State University (American) football game, Brian, Erik and Dan chat about the news of the day, with more than a few correlations back to football. And we had a special guest join us, too: Zah Gonzalvo Rodriguez

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• There was an upcoming OpenSSL vulnerability hitting the world this week. How would Software Bill of Materials (SBOM) make the response easier?
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• A reminder of our dependence on the stability and security of some very core tools (like OpenSSL) to run our businesses. Mot to mention the fact that such tools are often within the libraries we use and don’t even realise it’s there.
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• Similarities between football and security in the need to adjust based on what the other team shows signs of throwing at you, and further based on what they actually bring to the line.
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• How repeatable process and inventory help make the response to these vulnerability disclosures less like a firedrill and more like standard ops.
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• Did you know that credit ratings are being affected by information security posture and breach response?
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• Same thing with M&A and investment valuation… if you’re not as mature in security and privacy you may see a discount taken on your value!
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• How transparent should we be with the peer companies and the public world about our security posture (like incident response plans, and security controls in place)?
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And if you’re curious, you can find out what team Dan (the lifelong Badger) was supporting in the game. Congratulations to the University of Michigan in later winning this game, and to both teams for keeping the rivalry alive and spicy.

We also have a video channel on YouTube that airs the "with pictures" edition of the podcast. Please head to https://youtube.com/@greatsecuritydebate and watch, subscribe and "like" the episodes.

Some of the links in the show notes contain affiliate links that may earn a commission should you choose to make a purchase using these links. Using these links supports The Great Security Debate, so we appreciate it when you use them. We do not make our recommendations based on the availability or benefits of these affiliate links.

Thanks for listening!

Support The Great Security Debate

This week’s debate comes amid a combo platter of increased analytics leading to near-immediate contact when visiting a product’s website, along with more clarity from enforcement bodies about how they will approach their respective privacy legislation. One such fine was the Sephora CCPA matter in which California Attorney General levied a $1.2M fine on the company ([https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta-announces-settlement-sephora-part-ongoing-enforcement])

Listen in to hear Dan, Brian and Erik talk about:

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• Are privacy and shareholder value at odds? How does protecting the privacy of the consumer help shareholder value?
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• A reminder that security and privacy can serve as a business differentiator
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• How to deal with the reputation of a company being set by misleading headlines (and people not reading the actual article/detail)?
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• Does better privacy practices in companies lead to reduced data for sale on the illicit market?
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• Does just “saying no to data collection” by companies make for a better privacy posture?
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• How long should (vs. how long do) you hold onto data?
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• How will companies be judged in the future by how they manage data today?
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• Are ads themselves the source of all our problems?
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• Why does the push for more advertising to reduce costs increases the push for more data collection?
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We also have a video channel on YouTube that airs the "with pictures" edition of the podcast. Please head to https://bit.ly/gsdyoutube and watch, subscribe and "like" the episodes.

Some of the links in the show notes contain affiliate links that may earn a commission should you choose to make a purchase using these links. Using these links supports The Great Security Debate, so we appreciate it when you use them. We do not make our recommendations based on the availability or benefits of these affiliate links.

Thanks for listening!

Support The Great Security Debate

Links:

• Sephora Hit with $1.2M Fine in First CCPA Enforcement - CompliancePoint
• Patagonia Founder Gives Away the Company to Fight Climate Change - The New York Times
• RMISC - Rocky Mountain Information Security Conference
• 500 million LinkedIn users' data is for sale on a hacker site | CNN Business
• Uber breached by hacker in cybersecurity incident - The Washington Post
• 'Astonishing.' Morgan Stanley hard drives holding sensitive client data got auctioned off online | CNN Business
• Business Roundtable
• Why is Cybersecurity Important to ESG
• 'Anonymised' data can never be totally anonymous, says study | Data protection | The Guardian
• YouTube showing up to 10 unskippable ads on a video
• Amazon's Alexa may have witnessed alleged Florida murder, authorities say
• The Athletic adds ads; readers are not pleased - Poynter
• Amazon says 'Thursday Night Football' NFL stream draws record Prime signups
• Daniel Ayala on Twitter: "Spoiler alert: the “not interested” button on @youtube is as useful at honing the recommendations as the placebo thermostat that they put in your office to when you used to go to an office. https://t.co/yg7T9fEhid" / Twitter

We've all seen it (or been it): a new boss arrives at the company and quickly thereafter a bunch of their old colleagues get hired. It feels like they are getting the band back together at the new place. What does that say to the organisation about that leader? What does doing the opposite (pausing, growing from within) say differently? Brian, Dan and Erik discuss, debate and dissect this from a few angles, including some of the following:

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• The power of threes: Three paths when you come in as a new leader: bring your own, nurture within, hire all new. And the three arcs of a company - startup/scrappy , growth/maturation, steady/run.
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• Two critical skills we wish we were taught in school and earlier in work: communications and public speaking
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• The impacts on culture on leadership and how they approach the staffing question, and how you bring people in will be the biggest impact on the culture of the organisation
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• How can metrics hide the actual performance of the team?
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• Are the CISO retention numbers as bad as the urban myth ? Are CISOs staying longer than we think they are?
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• What organisational situations drive leaders to resort to bringing in the people they know and trust vs. Trusting those already there?
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• How does growth by acquisition change the way we approach the listening and staffing of our teams and supporting our organisations?
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• Approaches to finding people to provide new perspectives, without having already worked with them directly?
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• How does geographic culture affect the decision on how to staff your team as a new leader in an organisation?
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We also have a video channel on YouTube that airs the "with pictures" edition of the podcast. Please head over to https://bit.ly/gsdyoutube and watch, subscribe and "like" the episodes.

Some of the links in the show notes contain affiliate links that may earn a commission should you chose to make a purchase using these links. Using these links supports The Great Security Debate, so we appreciate it when you do use them. We do not make our recommendations based on the availability or benefits from these affiliate links.

Thanks for listening!

Support The Great Security Debate

Links:

• The Great Security Debate Episode 40: What Got You Here Won’t (Necessarily) Get You There
• Steve Jobs Last Words – Jessica Peng
• Amazon.com: Power Moves: Lessons from Davos (Audible Audio Edition): Adam Grant, Adam Grant, Audible Originals: Audible Books & Originals
• Amazon.com: Small Giants: Companies That Choose to Be Great Instead of Big: 9781591840930: Burlingham, Bo: Books
• Zingerman's Community of Businesses - inside the center of the gastro-deli universe
• Warren Buffett - Only when the tide goes out do you...
• 2022 Global Chief Information Security Officer (CISO) Survey | Insights | Heidrick & Struggles
• The Future Of The CISO — Six Types Of Security Leaders
• How Listening Will Transform Your Leadership

Are we getting subscription overload? The move to more and more subscriptions is good for those selling, but are they good for those buying, too?

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• Do subscriptions offset by other non-cash costs (e.g. data collection, advertising) reduce subscription fatigue? How does that fit into the security product world? What are the risks of making security technology only for those that can't afford it? Why are the ad-supported versions more heavily marketed than the no-ad versions?
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• How do subscriptions encourage continuous development of software and features? What about innovation?
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• What's a persistent feature, and what can be revoked or shifted into a different subscription tier (take a look at Slack's recent move to make the free tier way less valuable and encourage the need to move to a paid tier)
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• Do the combinatoric vastness of features that can go on and off based on the subscriptions you buy introduce an unnecessary or unsafe risk of not working well together in specific combos?
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• What are the legalities of jailbreaking your software rather than paying to activate it by subscription? How does doing so affect the liability and effectiveness of the product?
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We also talk about some things unrelated to subscriptions (and cars)!

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• What is needed to adapt your communications (and subscription sales pitch) to VC/PE vs the CIO/CISO at a company? East coast vs west coast? Etc.
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• Tips for job candidates on looking for public info on what a company thinks is important from security and risk (hint: it's SEC filings like the 8-K and 10-K!)
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Tune in to delight as Dan rants in Yiddish and then mess up the name of some of the most popular movies of our time. Enjoy seeing (or hearing) Erik get on a soapbox stumping for Sig Sigma. Binge on Brian talking about automotive manufacturing (who knew) and for once not be broadcasting from a "train station".

We also have a video channel on YouTube that airs the "with pictures" edition of the podcast. Please head over to https://bit.ly/gsdyoutube and watch, subscribe and "like" the episodes.

If you're watching on YouTube, we are very sorry for the video sync issues this week! The sound is great, but one of our hosts does a very poor Milli Vanilli impression. We are writing up the root cause analysis documents and issuing CAPAs to keep it from happening agai

Some of the links in the show notes contain affiliate links that may earn a commission should you chose to make a purchase using these links. Using these links supports The Great Security Debate, so we appreciate it when you do use them. We do not make our recommendations based on the availability or benefits from these affiliate links.

Thanks for listening!

Support The Great Security Debate

Links:

• Crossing the Chasm, 3rd Edition: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers (Collins Business Essentials): Moore, Geoffrey A.: 9780062353948: Amazon.com: Books
• This Is How They Tell Me the World Ends: The Cyberweapons Arms Race - Kindle edition by Perlroth, Nicole. Politics & Social Sciences Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

It's the dog days of summer here in the northern hemisphere, and we have some episodes to make the hot, muggy days go by faster (or the drive up to the cabin in the woods to escape it all).

This week Dan, Brian and Erik talk about what it takes to be a Virtual or Fractional CISO. Does someone that calls themselves one need to have had in-house CISO experience to do the job? Or do the fresh perspectives of someone that doesn't come with history benefit the organisation in a different way? Risks, challenges, and talking to Boards of Directors definitely have a strong place in the debate (and we hit on all of them)

We will be back with more episodes through August and then back to our usual bi-weekly pace as we hit the autumn.

We also have a video channel on YouTube that airs the "with pictures" edition of the podcast. Please head over to https://bit.ly/gsdyoutube and watch, subscribe and "like" the episodes.

If you're watching on YouTube, we are very sorry for the video sync issues this week! The sound is great, but one of our hosts does a very poor Milli Vanilli impression. We are writing up the root cause analysis documents and issuing CAPAs to keep it from happening agai

Some of the links in the show notes contain affiliate links that may earn a commission should you chose to make a purchase using these links. Using these links supports The Great Security Debate, so we appreciate it when you do use them. We do not make our recommendations based on the availability or benefits from these affiliate links.

Thanks for listening!

Support The Great Security Debate

Links:

• Sonny 🇨🇦❄️⚓ on Twitter: "WTF is this ??? #CyberSecurity #InfoSec https://t.co/DLHivTJ9Qw" / Twitter
• This Is How They Tell Me the World Ends: The Cyberweapons Arms Race: Perlroth, Nicole: 9781635576054: Amazon.com: Books
• Sajay Rai — Securely Yours LLCSecurely Yours LLC
• Sajay Rai CPA, CISSP, CISM | LinkedIn
• Amazon - Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win: Willink, Jocko, Babin, Leif: 9781250067050: Books
• CISO MindMap 2022: What do InfoSec Professionals really do?Rafeeq Rehman | Cyber | Automation | Digital

Dan, Brian and Erik look at how the past informs our security future, and how things we have done in the past may not get us where we need to be in the future. Join us for a live podcast recording with live audience Q&A, direct from the MCWT Executive Connection Summit.

In the live recording we covered a flurry of topics focused on changing ourselves, refreshing ourselves and renewing ourselves including:

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• The barriers to entry to get into the security field
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• Experience vs. education requirements in security hiring
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• Changes afoot in hiring appetite as recession looms
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• Reporting requirements by public companies on breach or security events
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• Security beyond just confidentiality
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• Improvements that can be made to the hiring process
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• And lots more!
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Huge thanks to the wonderful team at the Michigan Council on Women in Technology (https://mcwt.org) for asking us to be part of this great event bringing the Michigan technology community together to build connections.

We also have a video channel on YouTube that airs the "with pictures" edition of the podcast. Please head over to https://bit.ly/gsdyoutube and watch, subscribe and "like" the episodes.

Some of the links in the show notes contain affiliate links that may earn a commission should you chose to make a purchase using these links. Using these links supports The Great Security Debate, so we appreciate it when you do use them. We do not make our recommendations based on the availability or benefits from these affiliate links.

Thanks for listening!

Support The Great Security Debate

Links:

• The Infinite Game: Sinek, Simon: 9780735213500: Books - Amazon
• Leaders Eat Last Deluxe: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don't eBook : Sinek, Simon: Kindle Store
• Marcus Stefanide - LinkedIn Post
• Bio-IT World Conference & Expo 2022 In Person & Virtual
• Jess Burn · Forrester
• Apple, Google and Microsoft team up on passwordless logins | TechCrunch
• SEC.gov | SEC Proposes Rule to Provide Transparency in the Securities Lending Market
• Future Crimes: Inside the Digital Underground and the Battle for Our Connected World: Goodman, Marc: 9780804171458: Books
• CISO MindMap 2022 - RecommendationsRafeeq Rehman | Cyber | Automation | Digital