Sign up to save your podcasts
Or
Share Growth After Headcount
Share to email
Share to Facebook
Share to X
Share to email
Share to Facebook
Share to X
Or
Growth After Headcount
Growth After Headcount episodes
- The $75,000 AI Bill: When Productivity Outruns Revenue — Joshua Wohle (Mindstone) #016
Before founding Mindstone, Joshua Wohle co-founded SuperAwesome, acquired by Epic Games in 2020. Now he helps companies turn AI adoption into business results. He explains why leaders must use AI themselves, how to build skills across the organization, and what a $75,000 monthly AI bill taught him about the gap between output and revenue.
Chapters
00:00 Cold open and introduction
02:34 Teach everyone the tools before redesigning workflows
04:14 Why technology companies struggled with the people side
05:25 When more productivity does not mean more revenue
10:06 Why AI transformation starts with the C-suite
11:56 From AI champions to a self-improving organization
14:31 Clear rules, experimentation and the cost of AI
16:29 The CTO’s $75,000 monthly AI bill
18:23 Why AI changes the case for a minimum viable product
20:30 How Mindstone builds software without engineers writing code
22:07 Taking agents beyond software engineering
24:43 Hiring for agency and judgmentGuest
Joshua Wohle, co-founder and CEO of Mindstone. Previously, he co-founded SuperAwesome, which was acquired by Epic Games.
LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/joshuawohle
Mindstone: https://www.mindstone.com/About the show
Growth After Headcount is a podcast and a book about how companies scale with AI instead of people. New episodes weekly. The book lands in 2027.
More at https://www.growthafterheadcount.com/
About the host
Haris Odobasic is Managing Partner at Revenue Wizards, a GTM and RevOps consultancy, and the author of The RevOps Pendulum. He writes and speaks about how AI is changing the way companies are built and scaled.
Revenue Wizards: https://revenuewizards.com/
The RevOps Pendulum: https://geni.us/revops-pendulum
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harisodobasic/
X: https://x.com/OdobasicHaris27 min - Can AI Shorten Sales Cycles and Cut Marketing Spend? — Dora Kondeva (Snowflake) #015
Snowflake reports that sales cycles in EMEA shortened by 25–30% within six months. Its account-based marketing team booked 2.3× as many meetings with high-potential accounts while spending 38% less on marketing.
Dora Kondeva says a Snowflake sales rep could spend up to five hours getting ready for one customer meeting. Account history lived in the CRM, engagement in marketing platforms, and call transcripts somewhere else. AI helped people finish individual tasks faster, but sales and marketing were still working from different pictures of the same account.
Dora explains how Snowflake brought those signals together, agreed on what counted as buying intent, and gave sales a way to act on it. She shares how leaders redesigned workflows, got teams practicing with AI through stand-ups and hackathons, and measured what changed. She also takes us inside a lean localization team that built a translation pipeline on Snowflake Cortex and started tracing localized content to revenue.
Chapters
00:00 — Cold open and introduction
01:05 — Why faster tasks still left sales and marketing in silos
05:13 — How leaders redesign workflows and measure the results
10:23 — Building trust through stand-ups and hackathons
12:12 — Where the time saved on sales prep and forecasting goes
16:25 — What AI needs to answer questions about an account
18:49 — The silent leak where buying intent never reaches sales
22:35 — How a lean localization team translated more with Snowflake Cortex
26:46 — How Dora uses a growth agent to make daily decisions
28:35 — Where to start when you have several revenue leaksGuest
Dora Kondeva, VP of Growth and Revenue Marketing, EMEA at Snowflake.LinkedIn: https://nl.linkedin.com/in/kondeva
Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/
AI Blueprint for GTM: https://www.snowflake.com/en/ai-blueprint/
Snowflake’s reported results: https://www.snowflake.com/en/blog/ai-blueprint-gtm-transformation/About the show
Growth After Headcount is a podcast and a book about how companies scale with AI instead of people. New episodes weekly. The book lands in 2027.
More at https://www.growthafterheadcount.com/
About the host
Haris Odobasic is Managing Partner at Revenue Wizards (https://revenuewizards.com/), a GTM and RevOps consultancy, and the author of The RevOps Pendulum (https://geni.us/revops-pendulum). He writes and speaks about how AI is changing the way companies are built and scaled.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harisodobasic/
X: https://x.com/OdobasicHaris32 min - Can One CMO with AI Agents Do the Work of 10 Marketers? (FRAME) #014
Bhanu Chawla says his previous company had 55 people in marketing. At FRAME, the marketing team is currently just him, with AI supporting work across content, design, campaigns and analytics. He still reviews what goes out and keeps the central campaign decisions with people. His plan is to push what he can do with AI before adding to the team.
Running a marketing function this way depends on shared company knowledge, connected tools and knowing which decisions need human judgment. Bhanu explains why AI can help develop campaign ideas without choosing the final direction, how he works with business tools through agents instead of dashboards, and what needs to be documented so another person can take over. He also shares the settlement blueprint campaign he built with AI, why good content still takes time to review, and where events and human relationships would justify his first hires.
Chapters
00:00 — A teenage blog becomes a marketing career
02:37 — From computer science to CMO
03:33 — Running marketing as a team of one
05:15 — Shared company knowledge keeps agents aligned
08:25 — Human or agent: who gets the decision?
11:52 — Can AI develop taste?
14:36 — More output still needs careful review
18:31 — What would make Bhanu hire?
20:56 — What happens when the operator leaves?
22:20 — Working through agents instead of dashboards
27:40 — Building the settlement blueprint campaign
29:53 — Experiment with AI, keep human judgmentGuest
Bhanu Chawla, Chief Marketing Officer at FRAME.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhanuchawla/
FRAME: https://frame.xyz/
Settlement blueprint: https://frame.xyz/blueprintAbout the show
Growth After Headcount is a podcast and a book about how companies scale with AI instead of people. New episodes weekly. The book lands in 2027.
More at https://www.growthafterheadcount.com/
About the host
Haris Odobasic is Managing Partner at Revenue Wizards (https://revenuewizards.com/), a GTM and RevOps consultancy, and the author of The RevOps Pendulum (https://geni.us/revops-pendulum). He writes and speaks about how AI is changing the way companies are built and scaled.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harisodobasic/
X: https://x.com/OdobasicHaris33 min - Using AI to Take Sales Offline — Adit Trivedi (hyperGTM) #013
Adit Trivedi’s team found an executive’s favourite song in an archived interview and sent him a signed vinyl record. Adit says the executive replied asking to speak. That is the idea behind hyperGTM: use AI to research people and organise personal experiences that open real conversations. As digital outreach gets easier to produce, he is taking sales offline.
Adit describes building hyperGTM with nine people, including just two engineers, while keeping humans close to customers. He argues that faster development should help companies solve a specific problem more deeply, rather than keep adding features. His approach starts with doing the work manually, finding someone willing to pay for it, and hiring when a real bottleneck appears.
Chapters
00:00 — Intro
01:50 — Why more software makes buyers harder to reach
04:00 — From learning to code to building Lingumi
13:01 — Better outreach wasn’t enough: finding the gifting opportunity
14:55 — Hire for a problem you’ve experienced yourself
16:45 — Take work away instead of adding another platform
20:52 — The signed vinyl that got a CRO’s attention
22:33 — Building with nine people and two engineers
24:13 — Building faster doesn’t mean building more
27:11 — Could the same team handle twice the customers?
28:34 — Do the work manually before automating it
30:55 — Find a problem someone will pay to solveGuest
Adit Trivedi, Co-founder & CEO at hyperGTM.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adittrivedi/
hyperGTM: https://www.hypergtm.com/About the show
Growth After Headcount is a podcast and a book about how companies scale with AI instead of people. New episodes weekly. The book lands in 2027.
More at https://www.growthafterheadcount.com/
About the host
Haris Odobasic is Managing Partner at Revenue Wizards (https://revenuewizards.com/), a GTM and RevOps consultancy, and the author of The RevOps Pendulum (https://geni.us/revops-pendulum). He writes and speaks about how AI is changing the way companies are built and scaled.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harisodobasic/
X: https://x.com/OdobasicHaris35 min - Rethinking Go-to-Market with AI — Jonathan Kvarfordt (Salesforce) #012
Jonathan Kvarfordt, Sr. Director, Product Marketing, has seen companies hand out AI licenses and call it transformation. The tools arrive, but the buying process stays much the same. Customers still wait for answers, and teams still work around disconnected systems. For Jonathan, the opportunity starts with rethinking how the work gets done.
Real AI adoption depends on leaders giving people room to experiment and connecting the data they need. Drawing on his work at Momentum and his former role at 1mind, Jonathan explains how AI can answer buyers’ questions earlier and free people for work that needs their judgment. He also shares why buyers may speak more openly to AI, why trusted distribution matters as building gets easier, and how he uses AI without giving up his own thinking.
Chapters
00:00 — Intro
02:21 — AI licenses don’t make a transformation
05:54 — Disconnected data and leadership hold AI back
08:14 — Putting AI between the tools you already use
09:48 — What 1mind’s AI sales experts can do
11:33 — Moving people to more valuable work
16:59 — Why buyers speak more openly to AI
19:28 — Revenue per agent and the buyer’s choice
21:04 — Distribution starts with earning trust
23:54 — Using AI to make room for thinking
27:35 — Thinking for yourself before asking AI
28:42 — Could AI agents scale your expertise?Guest
Jonathan Kvarfordt, Sr. Director, Product Marketing.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmkmba/
GTM AI Podcast & Newsletter: https://www.gtmaipodcast.com/newsletters
1mind, discussed from Jonathan’s former role: https://www.1mind.com/About the show
Growth After Headcount is a podcast and a book about how companies scale with AI instead of people. New episodes weekly. The book lands in 2027.
More at https://www.growthafterheadcount.com/
About the host
Haris Odobasic is Managing Partner at Revenue Wizards (https://revenuewizards.com/), a GTM and RevOps consultancy, and the author of The RevOps Pendulum (https://geni.us/revops-pendulum). He writes and speaks about how AI is changing the way companies are built and scaled.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harisodobasic/
X: https://x.com/OdobasicHaris32 min - From Stop Hiring Humans to Be More Human — Jaspar Carmichael-Jack (Artisan) #011
Artisan's earlier Stop Hiring Humans campaign put the company on the map. But founder and CEO Jaspar Carmichael-Jack says the message didn't fit all its customers: enterprise sales teams were using Ava to help their existing people do more. Inside Artisan, he says the team is around 50 people, despite earlier plans to grow beyond 100. And some employees' AI token bills became large enough that hiring another person could have been cheaper.
The practical question is which work AI can do reliably and at a sensible cost. Jaspar explains why Artisan stepped back from maximizing token use to focus on return on investment, why product judgment and knowledge of a customer's workflow still matter when building gets easier, and where human salespeople remain essential. He also describes the next step beyond outbound prospecting, with an AI account executive intended for smaller deals that would otherwise go straight to self-service.
Chapters
00:00 — Intro
00:34 — Growing revenue faster than the team
01:57 — Automating the work that isn't uniquely human
02:27 — When AI costs more than another hire
04:20 — Why a good AI BDR takes more than emails
06:24 — An AI account executive for smaller deals
09:34 — Product judgment and brand still matter
10:43 — Why Stop Hiring Humans didn't fit every customer
12:10 — You can't skip understanding the workflow
14:01 — The plan to expand beyond outbound sales
16:16 — What AI can and can't fix in your data
19:14 — Automate carefully, hire well, iterate fast
Guest
Jaspar Carmichael-Jack, Founder & CEO at Artisan.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaspar-carmichael-jack/
Artisan: https://www.artisan.co/
About the show
Growth After Headcount is a podcast and a book about how companies scale with AI instead of people. New episodes weekly. The book lands in 2027.
More at https://www.growthafterheadcount.com/
About the host
Haris Odobasic is Managing Partner at Revenue Wizards (https://revenuewizards.com/), a GTM and RevOps consultancy, and the author of The RevOps Pendulum (https://geni.us/revops-pendulum). He writes and speaks about how AI is changing the way companies are built and scaled.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harisodobasic/
X: https://x.com/OdobasicHaris
22 min - Unicorn To €100M: More Per Rep, Not More Reps — Molo Lorenz (Moss) #010
Moss just became a unicorn. The next target is €100M ARR, and the plan for getting there does not involve a hiring spree. Moritz "Molo" Lorenz runs GTM engineering at Moss, a four-person team inside RevOps that works across the ops, systems, and data teams. His job is to make every rep produce more, so revenue can grow much faster than headcount.
This episode is about the order of operations. Moss swapped an intern team doing manual account research for automated enrichment. It built a data lake so Salesforce stays clean. It also tried automated outbound and AI SDRs before the data was ready, and that hurt its lead pool. Molo explains why data quality comes before agents, why token spend gets measured against SQLs, and why he thinks the end state is a custom interface outside the CRM that serves reps the next best action, not everyone querying AI from a terminal.
Chapters
00:00 — Intro: where "Molo" comes from
01:16 — What a Director of GTM Engineering does at Moss
02:20 — Where GTM engineering sits inside RevOps
05:43 — €100M ARR without a hiring spree
11:18 — The intern team that automated enrichment replaced
14:25 — Data lake first, CRM second
17:15 — What agents do at Moss: waterfall enrichment and persona search
20:20 — Moving down the funnel: the data cube and dynamic account scoring
23:23 — What Moss tried too early: automated outbound and AI SDRs
25:14 — Token costs and the AI ops team
29:17 — Why the terminal is not the end state
31:51 — The road to €100M: conversion rate and an interface beyond SalesforceGuest
Moritz "Molo" Lorenz, Director of GTM Engineering at Moss.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/moritz-molo-lorenz/
Moss: https://www.getmoss.com/About the show
Growth After Headcount is a podcast and a book about how companies scale with AI instead of people. New episodes weekly. The book lands in 2027.More at https://www.growthafterheadcount.com/
About the host
Haris Odobasic is Managing Partner at Revenue Wizards (https://revenuewizards.com/), a GTM and RevOps consultancy, and the author of The RevOps Pendulum (https://geni.us/revops-pendulum). He writes and speaks about how AI is changing the way companies are built and scaled.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harisodobasic/
X: https://x.com/OdobasicHaris36 min - Two People, $1.2M ARR, No Sales Team — Adam Holmgren (Fibbler) #009
Adam Holmgren built Fibbler to $1.2M ARR with one co-founder and no sales team. He is not an engineer. He spent ten years in B2B marketing, started the company on the side of a full-time job, and now ships more product features than his technical co-founder does. His first fifty customers came from a LinkedIn audience he built two years before there was a product. The first employee is being hired now, and the target is $10M ARR with fewer than five people.
His argument is that building stopped being the constraint. Around ten companies now do roughly what Fibbler does, and the features are not what separates them. Distribution is. That is why Fibbler put half of every month's MRR into ads before either founder took a salary. Adam also makes the case that marketers make the best founders right now, that domain expertise is the one thing AI will not hand you, and that a SOC 2 certification is how a two-person company gets taken seriously against competitors many times its size.
Chapters
00:00 — Intro
00:18 — Two people, $1.2M ARR, and two years of building on the side
02:14 — Starting at 35 with a family beat starting at 25
03:24 — The MVP took a year. Today it would take two weeks
05:35 — Why a two-person team ships faster than the category leaders
07:48 — Product-led growth was not strategy, it was a calendar problem
09:31 — 600 signups a month, and why the first hire is commercial
11:29 — Everyone can build features. Not everyone can build a brand
12:45 — Half of every month's MRR went into ads from day one
15:35 — The first 50 customers came from an audience built before the product
20:26 — SOC 2 and ISO: how a small player beats a vibe-coded competitor
23:53 — $10M ARR with fewer than five people
26:29 — Salaries tied to MRR instead of commissionGuest
Adam Holmgren, Co-Founder and CEO at Fibbler.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-holmgren/
Fibbler: https://www.fibbler.coAbout the show
Growth After Headcount is a podcast and a book about how companies scale with AI instead of people. New episodes weekly. The book lands in 2027.
More at https://www.growthafterheadcount.com/
About the host
Haris Odobasic is Managing Partner at Revenue Wizards (https://revenuewizards.com/), a GTM and RevOps consultancy, and the author of The RevOps Pendulum (https://geni.us/revops-pendulum). He writes and speaks about how AI is changing the way companies are built and scaled.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harisodobasic/
X: https://x.com/OdobasicHaris31 min - The 5 Tiers Of AI Vulnerability — Bram Kaashoek (Main Capital) #008
Y Combinator's latest guidance to founders was blunt: AI has cut the cost of building software 10 to 100x, so clone an existing product and sell it for a tenth of the price. Bram Kaashoek is Partner and COO at Main Capital Partners, a PE firm with more than 50 enterprise software companies representing €12 billion in assets. His answer is not defensive. Cheaper code is real. It just isn't the game.
The episode makes three arguments. First, the shift that matters is not cost but category: software is moving from a tool that helps a professional to a platform that executes the job, which unlocks budgets far beyond IT. Second, AI vulnerability is not evenly spread. Main scores its market in five tiers, from systems of record down to single-task tools, and only invests in the top three. Third, incumbents sit on the one thing AI-native startups cannot build: years of customer and usage data. The hard part is not orchestration. It is getting that data out of the product, especially when the product still runs on-prem.
Chapters
00:00 — The room where the Dutch cabinet used to meet
01:03 — YC's advice: clone it and sell it for a tenth
02:23 — From software as a tool to software that does the job
03:17 — Where the moat sits: trust, domain expertise, delivery
04:37 — Main's five tiers of AI vulnerability
06:18 — A competitor is 40% cheaper. Why don't customers switch?
07:59 — Fortes built a CRM in three to four months
10:20 — Enterprise deals are still sold by humans
13:21 — Headcount used to be the flex
16:12 — Revenue architecture: one data layer or nothing
18:02 — Incumbents have the data. Getting it out is the problem.
22:51 — What incumbents can learn from AI-native companies
24:23 — What AI-native companies can learn from incumbents
25:57 — ClickUp, 30-35% EBITDA, and do-more-with-the-same-team
28:06 — This is not an efficiency game: Pointsharp and WoodWing
31:33 — Five winning recipes for incumbentsGuest
Bram Kaashoek, Partner and COO at Main Capital Partners.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bramkaashoek/
Main Capital Partners: https://main.nl/About the show
Growth After Headcount is a podcast and a book about how companies scale with AI instead of people. New episodes weekly. The book lands in 2027.
More at https://www.growthafterheadcount.com/
About the host
Haris Odobasic is Managing Partner at Revenue Wizards (https://revenuewizards.com/), a GTM and RevOps consultancy, and the author of The RevOps Pendulum (https://geni.us/revops-pendulum). He writes and speaks about how AI is changing the way companies are built and scaled.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harisodobasic/
X: https://x.com/OdobasicHaris35 min - Building The 10x Accountant — Nick Knuppe (Neno) #007
Traditional accounting firms run one accountant per 30 to 35 clients. Nick Knuppe is building toward one per 150. Neno is an AI-native financial services company that is both the software and the accounting firm: business bank accounts, expense cards, AR and AP, in-house accountants and tax fiscalists, and its own general ledger. In August 2026, Neno announced a €6.6 million seed round led by AlleyCorp, with Motive Partners and Firstminute Capital. Seven months after commercial launch, Nick says they onboard a customer a day, have passed 150 customers, and get more than 60 percent of new business from referrals.
Three arguments carry the episode. Accounting software fees are heading to zero, so brand, service, and distribution decide who wins. Every hire has to pass one test: is this person so important that AI cannot do their job? And instead of OKRs, Neno runs four non-negotiable metrics, from ARR growth to customers per accountant. If they miss any of the four, the thesis is false.
Neno's funding announcement
Chapters
00:00 — Intro
00:43 — The broken middle: 26 million SMEs, 220,000 firms on a 50-year-old model
02:25 — One accountant, 150 clients: breaking the industry ratio
04:29 — "Are you an AI company or an accounting firm?"
05:44 — Customers checking their accountant's work against Claude
07:44 — Expanding across tax codes: e-invoicing and API-led tax bodies
09:17 — Why Neno won't acquire legacy firms
10:47 — Trust at seven months old: referrals over marketing
13:05 — When software fees hit zero, brand decides
14:46 — Which billable-hours industries this playbook eats next
15:56 — The done-for-you end state: AI calls your late payers
17:06 — Non-negotiable metrics instead of OKRs
Guest
Nick Knuppe, Co-founder and CEO at Neno.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickknuppe/
Neno: https://www.neno.co/
About the show
Growth After Headcount is a podcast and a book about how companies scale with AI instead of people. New episodes weekly. The book lands in 2027.
More at https://www.growthafterheadcount.com/
About the host
Haris Odobasic is Managing Partner at Revenue Wizards (https://revenuewizards.com/), a GTM and RevOps consultancy, and the author of The RevOps Pendulum https://geni.us/revops-pendulum). He writes and speaks about how AI is changing the way companies are built and scaled.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harisodobasic/
X: https://x.com/OdobasicHaris
20 min
About Growth After Headcount
From the publisher's feed
Growth After Headcount explores how AI can help businesses grow while creating more room for people to think, build and live.
Each episode brings a conversation with founders building…
AI-native businesses and leaders transforming established companies. How are they rethinking the work? What can run autonomously, and where do people make the difference? Honest lessons from those putting these ideas into practice—the progress, the setbacks and the possibilities.
I’m Haris Odobasic, Managing Partner at Revenue Wizards, a GTM and RevOps consultancy, and author of The RevOps Pendulum. Alongside these conversations, I share what I’m learning on my own journey building an AI-native business.
Connect with me on LinkedIn or X