GTM News Desk

After six months and a run of conversations spanning Reddit, YouTube, website conversion, and onboarding, Mark Kilens and Natalie Marcotullio are hitting pause on GTM News Desk, at least in this format. In their final episode together, they look back at what actually stuck from a season of go-to-market experiments, why "there's no playbook" is the most honest advice they can give anyone joining a startup, and why over-polishing a campaign or a doc is a losing bet in 2026.

They also make their predictions for the next six to twelve months: Natalie argues AI agents becoming the primary buyer is overhyped for now, and Mark thinks the industry is closer to a bubble-bursting moment than most people are willing to admit. Plus, a look at what's to come: Natalie is bringing back her Revenue on the Rocks podcast and Mark is launching a new newsletter on people-first go-to-market.

Jump into the action:
(00:00) Reflecting on where the AI slop cycle stands now
(00:25) Catching up before the show
(02:16) Six months, and a look back at every episode
(03:57) The go-to-market map they've covered, guest by guest
(07:01) Why there's no playbook when you join a startup
(08:55) Prioritizing through experimentation instead of debate
(11:18) Natalie teases the return of Revenue on the Rocks
(12:42) Mark teases a new people-first go-to-market newsletter
(14:47) Prediction: why AI agents won't be buying software yet
(15:39) Prediction: the AI bubble-bursting moment
(18:23) Critical thinking atrophy and AI fatigue
(20:07) Mark's teaser for a Navattic product launch post

Subscribe to Mark’s Newsletter, People-First GTM: https://people-first-gtm.beehiiv.com/

Listen to Natalie’s Podcast, Revenue on the Rocks: https://www.navattic.com/revenue-on-the-rocks

Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://shareyourgenius.com/

What does it actually look like to onboard at a company where AI isn't a nice-to-have, but the operating system? And why does inserting AI into a workflow without thinking first make that workflow worse, not better?

Pragmatico Head of Marketing Lindsay O'Brien shares her experiences on what changed for her two months into a fully AI-native company after spending the last year as one of the earliest marketers building Claude skills for brand guidelines. The conversation gets into what actually gets evaluated in an AI-native interview process, why mandating AI adoption through shame backfires, and the Claude skill Lindsay built that plans an entire marketing event end to end.

Lindsay also makes the case for why a unique point of view has to come before any AI workflow, and why skipping that step is the real reason so much AI-assisted content reads as forgettable.

Jump into the action:
(00:00) Why project management eats as much time as the work itself
(00:32) Catching up before the show
(11:45) A full circle moment for Mark, Natalie, and Lindsay
(14:03) How to approach AI change management step by step
(16:46) The Claude Cowork token trap
(20:12) The critical thinking piece: don't outsource your point of view
(23:02) The four-step cycle for company-wide AI transformation
(27:24) The Claude skill that plans an entire marketing event
(33:33) How to pull context straight from the codebase
(36:06) Who owns the deck when anyone can make one
(43:20) Turning marketing into an assembly line
(45:26) Why a unique point of view matters more than more context
(48:07) Will AI ever feel as boring and as useful as Excel

Connect with Lindsay O'Brien: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsaykenders/
Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://shareyourgenius.com/

Seth Godin asked Google's own AI what happened to the open web over the last decade. The answer named three phases, starting with the death of Google Reader in 2013.

Ross Simmonds, founder of Foundation and the person who was telling B2B brands to get on Reddit back in 2016, joins Mark and Natalie to discuss what that admission actually means for marketers. Ross walks through why he bet on Reddit and Quora years before anyone else cared, how a fantasy football blog in college turned into a content marketing company, and why he thinks YouTube is the next channel everyone is sleeping on. 

The conversation also covers the difference between commodity and non-commodity content, why volume plays on programmatic SEO are a fast track to getting deindexed, and how to reverse-engineer what a community actually wants before you post to it.

Jump into action:
(00:00) Why AI is a blessing and a curse for marketers

(00:41) Catching up while moving

(03:43) Seth Godin asked Google's AI what happened to blogs

(11:47) Ross on calling the Reddit wave back in 2016

(17:52) The three times Google admitted to killing the open web

(19:55) Why 10 blue links are never coming back

(24:53) Commodity content versus non-commodity content

(28:48) Turning one report into dozens of micro assets

(29:47) The brand, product, and content marketing trifecta

(39:46) Why leadership teams are pressuring the wrong metrics

(44:24) Why AI visibility tools are still just directional

(49:29) The next underinvested channel is YouTube

(52:13) Ross's take on webinars

Connect with Ross Simmonds: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rosssimmonds/
Check out Foundation: https://foundationinc.co/

Read Blogs, Traffic, and Google by Seth’s Blog: https://seths.blog/2026/06/blogs-traffic-and-google/

Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://shareyourgenius.com/

What actually separates a partner program from a partner ecosystem? Why does discovery now happen inside an LLM instead of a review site? And why do referral programs get so much credit for revenue they're not actually driving?

Bryn Jones, co-founder of PartnerStack, breaks down how partnerships evolved from channel deals into full ecosystem orchestration, and why the companies winning at it treat every partner like part of the team. He shares the two questions that decide which partner types fit your business, why alignment with your executive team matters more than headcount, and the exact way to go from zero partners to a program that scales.

Bryn also gets into the 80/20 rule of activated partners, why software attribution is getting harder instead of easier, and the rookie mistake that ends new partner managers' careers by day 50.

Jump into the action: 

(00:00) Bryn on why partners who feel like part of your team will drive revenue for you 

(00:29) Mark and Natalie catch up from Maine and New York City 

(04:00) The mom-and-pop SaaS debate and what it means for mid-market software 

(10:30) Meet Bryn Jones, co-founder of PartnerStack 

(14:25) Why "partner program" and "partner ecosystem" aren't the same thing 

(21:20) The two factors that decide which partner types fit your business 

(25:16) How many partners you actually need to start (it's not 50) 

(29:34) Why software-based attribution is getting harder, not easier 

(35:03) Why refer-a-friend programs are a source of learning, not revenue 

(38:53) Using customers as a source of partner references 

(40:12) Tactical tips for starting outbound partner recruitment 

(41:49) The rookie mistake that gets new partner managers fired by day 50

Connect with Bryn Jones: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryn-jones/

Check out PartnerStack: https://www.partnerstack.com/

Read The Mom-and-Pop SaaS era has arrived by Elena Verna: https://www.elenaverna.com/p/the-mom-and-pop-saas-era-has-arrived

Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://shareyourgenius.com/

What happens when your GTM team grows fast but your operating model doesn't keep up? Who owns the funnel when marketing, sales, product, and CS are all pulling in different directions? And why does expansion revenue keep getting treated like an afterthought?

Greg Leach, GM & Product-Led SaaS Operator at 7shifts, has built a cross-functional pod structure that puts a single-threaded owner over every stage of the funnel. He breaks down exactly how it works, from new business to expansion, and why org design and operational rigor might be the most underrated competitive advantages at the scale-up stage.

Greg also shares how PLG drives the majority of 7shifts' expansion revenue, why the first 30 days with a customer should never involve a sales pitch, and how to think about fit, intent, and revenue potential as a framework for knowing when to sell and when to nurture.

Jump into the action:

(00:00) How 7shifts structures GTM accountability across the entire funnel

(02:15) Why only 15–20% of people use AI daily

(05:08) Comparing AI to the Industrial Revolution misses the point

(09:42) Why most things being called "agents" are really just workflows

(13:11) How Greg Leach went from growth PM to owning expansion revenue at 7shifts

(15:31) Why expansion revenue gets neglected and who should actually own it

(17:39) How single-threaded pod ownership eliminates GTM finger-pointing

(22:00) Why optimizing for lead quality beats optimizing for lead volume

(25:20) How 7shifts divides its GTM motion across three distinct pods

(27:22) The first 30 days post-conversion should focus on activation, not selling

(29:00) How 7shifts uses fit, intent, and revenue potential to prioritize expansion accounts

(36:46) How feature paywalls and plan trials power self-serve expansion

(46:14) The reason why org design and operational rigor matter more as you scale

Connect with Greg Leach: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-leach-87234128/ 

Learn more about 7shifts: https://www.linkedin.com/company/7shifts/

Read the full article, Am I An Agent?: https://adventuresinclaude.ai/posts/am-i-an-agent/

Watch The most rational take on AI you’ll hear this year with Lenny Rachitsky:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD3vLtWhT5A

Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://shareyourgenius.com/

Why do so many B2B homepages look identical? Why does showing your product add 19% to conversion rates, and why is almost nobody doing it? And what does getting people to show up to a dinner have in common with getting people to click your CTA?

Sahil Patel, founder of Spiralyze and host of CRO Crimes, makes the case that brand and conversion aren't opposites — they're flip sides of the same coin. He walks through the most common, most fixable mistakes B2B marketers make on their websites, why animation almost always cannibalizes your primary CTA, and the dead-simple one-second test that can settle a homepage debate faster than any internal deck.

Sahil also shares what he learned building Above the Fold, his first conference, including why you should draft off five other people's events before you ever try to throw your own.

Jump into the action:

(00:00) AI-powered on everything? Only if it actually works 

(00:30) Would you run this: prospect dinners in the age of event saturation 

(03:10) The real show rate math and why you need to invite way more people than you think 

(04:25) Why conference co-located dinners only work with a 1:1 sales motion 

(11:06) Meet Sahil Patel, founder of Spiralyze and host of CRO Crimes 

(13:37) Event drafting: how Sahil built Above the Fold next door to Spring 

(15:37) Good events are back but "if you build it, they will come" is over 

(19:33) Why a CRO agency invested in brand, events, and community 

(23:16) Brand vs. conversion: diametrically opposed or flip sides of the same coin? 

(25:35) Mark's live A/B test question: monthly vs. annual pricing on the pricing page 

(30:29) The #1 CRO mistake: not showing the product (and it adds 19% conversion) 

(38:31) The one-second test and the competitor headline swap 

(41:34) How AI and customer voice can actually win the internal headline fight 

(46:00) Why everyone should be using Winter to get ICP feedback on their copy 

(47:40) Let the customer quotes do the work in the room

Connect with Sahil Patel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sahilpatel/

Check out Spiralyze: https://spiralyze.com/

Check out CRO Crimes: https://www.youtube.com/@CROCrimes

Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://shareyourgenius.com/

What happens when you skip the "why" and go straight to the build? What does AI fatigue actually feel like from inside a product team? And why does the best user onboarding still start with a human conversation, not a vibe-coded prototype?

Ramli John, founder of DelightPath and author of Eureka, pushes back on the ship-it-and-see mindset sweeping through B2B. He explains why reducing time-to-value too aggressively can wreck week-one retention, how friction is actually necessary for learning, and why the teams winning with AI right now are the ones going deep on one thing, not wide on twenty.

Ramli also shares a first look at his upcoming book, Delightful Intelligence, and why the principles behind great onboarding haven't changed just because there's a chat box on the screen.

Jump into the action:

(00:00) Why AI acts like an eager intern who agrees with everything

(02:37) Pew Research: More US adults concerned about AI than excited 

(04:16) AI fatigue is real—news cycles, layoffs, and broken efficiency promises

(08:27) The shortcut mindset AI is creating inside teams

(12:24) What the best AI models look like 

(17:10) Meet Ramli John, founder of DelightPath

(19:59) Why great onboarding in the AI era still starts with core principles

(25:32) The EUREKA framework: a cross-functional approach to onboarding

(30:12) Why friction is not the enemy in user onboarding

(35:00) Chat interfaces vs. MCPs: What actually reduces onboarding friction

(40:44) The blank page problem and why "it can do anything" is terrible UX

(43:32) How many product updates can your users actually absorb?

(45:49) The right way to roll out a navigation change

(49:45) Why human conversations matter more than ever in a vibe-coded world

(52:16) Why Claude is beating OpenAI by playing the long game

Connect with Ramli John: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ramlijohn/

Check out DelightPath: 

https://delightpath.com/

Get Eureka: The Product Onboarding Playbook for High-Growth B2B Companies: https://www.damngravity.com/products/eureka-by-ramli-john 

Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius: 

https://shareyourgenius.com/

Resources:

Key findings about how Americans view AI: 

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2026/03/12/key-findings-about-how-americans-view-artificial-intelligence/

The 2026 AI Index Report: https://hai.stanford.edu/ai-index/2026-ai-index-report

How do you align your pricing strategy with customer needs while balancing complexity and simplicity? What’s the secret to designing pricing models that not only appeal to customers but also drive business growth? And how do you integrate the unique challenges of AI-driven products into your pricing structure?

Roee Hartuv, founder of Willingness to Pay, uncovers the truth about pricing and packaging in today’s rapidly evolving tech landscape. Roee explains why the old “good, better, best” model may no longer cut it and how the Jobs-to-Be-Done framework offers a more customer-centric approach. He goes into how businesses can transition to more dynamic pricing models, including credit and usage-based strategies, to meet the growing demands of AI-powered solutions.

He discusses real-world examples from his work with SaaS and AI-driven companies, offering practical insights on how to keep margins healthy without sacrificing value or transparency. Roee gives us a look at how AI integration is reshaping the pricing landscape and why businesses need to rethink traditional models to avoid margin erosion.

Jump into the action:

(00:00) Why pricing models are more than just numbers

(03:09) AI products need a new pricing strategy

(14:37) What Jobs to Be Done reveals about pricing and value

(15:22) The "good, better, best" model isn't enough anymore

(22:39) Should AI-driven businesses always adopt value-based pricing?

(23:33) How AI pricing examples are shaping future business models

(24:58) How AI is challenging traditional pricing models

(34:46) Pricing for enterprise and smaller customers without sacrificing simplicity

(37:27) The importance of transparency in pricing

(39:38) Why customer journeys are key to the right pricing structure

(43:46) Roee's tips on testing and refining your pricing models

Connect with Roee Hartuv: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roeehartuv/ 

Check out: https://www.willingnesstopay.com/ 

Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://shareyourgenius.com/

How do you build messaging that actually sticks across every team that touches it? How do you know when an "insight" is genuinely worth acting on and when it's just a pattern dressed up in a fancy word? What does it take to teach AI to think like you, not just write like a version of you?

Mojo Founder Eric Holland and Messaging Whisperer Anna Furmanov reveal what's really broken about how B2B companies develop and distribute their messaging. They dig into why most customer research is pulled from the most biased data available and how to document your decision-making, not just your knowledge, so AI can actually replicate your judgment. They also provide answers to why chasing every new AI workflow is making most marketers worse, not faster. Eric and Anna challenge the idea that volume of insights equals quality of insights, arguing that a single finding that changes how your whole company goes to market is worth more than a hundred tagged Gong quotes.

Jump into the action:

(00:00) Why B2B research should make you emotional about a lip balm

(00:35) What CMOs are actually talking about at conferences right now

(04:40) How shame and fear became the default AI adoption strategy

(08:41) The difference between AI-exhausted and AI-excited teams

(12:44) Four Tendencies and what it means for AI adoption

(16:31) Why B2B messaging is broken even at well-funded startups

(19:14) What separates Mojo from just pointing Claude at your Notion

(27:26) What good writing actually feels like and whether AI can get there

(32:17) The solar plexus test and how to know when your copy is working

(34:05) Why nuance and emotion are the real gap in AI writing

(39:27) Why most insight tools are just pattern-matching machines

(44:19) How to check if your researcher is actually any good

(47:30) The danger of everyone using the same tools to find the same answers

(50:01) What B2B marketing gets wrong that B2C figured out long ago

(53:21) Go deep on one thing for a quarter

(55:22) Why you should only build what you already know cold

Connect with Eric Holland: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-holland-not-a-marketer/ 

Connect with Anna Furmanov: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annafurmanov/ 

Check out: https://mojopmm.com/ 

Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://shareyourgenius.com/

How do you create lasting customer loyalty in a world dominated by AI and rapid change?

What’s the real key to driving growth without relying on vanity metrics like NPS and adoption?

What if your customer success strategy was more than just numbers? 

Keith Frankel, CEO of Totango, shares his bold approach to customer success and growth. He explains why traditional metrics fall short and reveals how businesses can shift from product-driven to customer-led growth. Keith delves into the concept of value-driven alignment and discusses how AI is shaping the future of customer success. The conversation also tackles a broader shift in SaaS: if AI makes product features easy to replicate, companies will need new ways to stand out. Keith believes the answer isn’t product; it’s culture and operating DNA.

Jump into the action:

(00:00) Intro

(01:56) Why investing in building a customer community matters
(04:38) Effective strategies for creating a thriving community in your business
(06:10) How to "prime" your customers to take action
(08:32) Shifting focus from vanity metrics like NPS to real customer ROI
(12:01) Leveraging AI-driven predictive models to understand customer outcomes
(16:16) Why value discovery before the sale is a must for long-term success

(19:01) Rethink the over-reliance on NPS, focus on true customer value instead
(28:44) Totango’s shift to focus on customer value as the North Star
(39:07) Embracing a framework for sustainable business success
(45:36) How historical figures can shape modern strategies

Connect with Keith Frankel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keithfrankel/
Totango by Keith Frankel: https://www.totango.com/ 

Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://shareyourgenius.com/