Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):

Host: Luke Waldo

Experts:

• Allison Thompson – Center for Guaranteed Income Research
• Blake Roberts Crall – Madison Forward Fund

 :00-:09 - Allison Thompson – “So there’s absolutely a way to address child poverty at the national level. It’s about the will, right?” 

:17–5:36 – Luke Waldo – Opening, Bios, and Welcome

In the first half of last century, American children and families faced a crisis. Invisible threats paralyzed society as viruses such as polio paralyzed children, claimed lives, and left communities in despair as they searched for solutions. In response, widespread quarantine shut down schools and public places to prevent the disease from spreading; and iron lungs were used to treat people already impacted by severe respiratory paralysis. But then came a groundbreaking prevention strategy through vaccines, massive public health campaigns, and the mobilization of resources to protect every community and get people back to living their lives without fear. Vaccination efforts eradicated polio from the United States 50 years ago and drastically reduced the burden of other deadly diseases, saving millions of lives, restoring hope for the future, and creating a blueprint for how bold prevention measures can transform society.

Today, children and families face another crisis. In 2022, over 7 million reports of alleged child abuse or neglect were made to Child Protective Services. 3 million families were subsequently investigated, and around 85% of them were living at or below 200% of the federal poverty line. Ultimately, of those 7 million reports, 550,000 were substantiated for maltreatment, or somewhere around 1 of every 10. 

How might we apply a similar public health approach that was used to address our polio crisis to address this crisis where too many families are overloaded by stress and vulnerable to child neglect, CPS investigations, and family separation? As we heard last episode from Jennifer Jones, Prevent Child Abuse America has a bold vision for what this could look like: an aligned and comprehensive primary prevention ecosystem that would empower all children and families to live a purposeful and happy life with hope for the future. One of its core aspirations is promoting economic stability, so that all families have the quality housing, childcare, and healthcare that we all need to thrive. 

In this episode, we’ll explore how guaranteed income programs and other economic supports that alleviate financial stress might help us move further upstream as an important part of that prevention ecosystem. Over the past six months, I have met many leaders of guaranteed income programs across the country. This journey began when the Bridge Project arrived here in Milwaukee to provide unconditional cash assistance to 100 low-income, pregnant mothers in Milwaukee for the next three years. Today, you will hear my conversation with two of these leaders who I’ve learned from on this journey, Blake Roberts Crall and Dr. Allison Thompson, as we explore the potential of guaranteed income programs as part of this primary prevention ecosystem. 

5:37-5:46 – Blake Roberts Crall and Allison Thompson – Thank you for having us.

5:47-6:03 – Luke Waldo – Why are guaranteed income or direct cash transfer programs needed today?

6:04-7:47 – Blake Roberts Crall – “And I really believe that our social safety net in this country plays a huge, huge role in helping to ensure financial security for our families and their well-being. So that's a really important part of our social infrastructure that we need, and it does a lot for families um and for children. And at the same time, um there's still so much more to do because there are families that are still struggling. We know that people are not able to make ends meet. 

And I think that there's an opportunity to look at our social safety net and figure out ways that we can make it better, make it more accessible, more inclusive, and provide more resources to families. um It seems pretty crazy to me that you can be working in this country full time or working more than full time and still not be able to pay all of your bills and still to be struggling financially. The term working poor, we hear that a lot. That's literally people are working, but still under that poverty line. So for me, there's a lot of opportunity to be doing something different and really to think about um how can we build systems of care and well-being for everyone. And I think guaranteed income or basic income is one possible tool that we can add in our toolbox.”

• What is Guaranteed Income? – Madison Forward Fund

7:48-7:50 – Luke – Same question to Allison.

7:51-10:41 - Allison Thompson - One in eight Americans live in poverty. And even with a full-time job, most families working minimum wage jobs still can't meet their basic needs. In fact, across many US cities, a parent of two children making the minimum wage would need to work between two to four minimum wage jobs just to make ends meet without benefits. And even with benefits, a parent working a full-time minimum wage job with two children typically experiences a $3,000 to $5,000 gap each month between their basic cost of living and their income and benefits.

To make matters worse, nearly half of all families with annual incomes of less than $25,000 a year also experience pretty significant income volatility, which means that their income each month is prone to both rapid and unpredictable change.

This might be because families are working hourly-waged jobs or doing gig work with unpredictable hours, or it could be that their jobs do not provide paid time off, leading to decreased income when parents' children get sick. But this income volatility puts families in really tough positions. Each month, families are often forced to make hard decisions to survive, decisions about paying utility bills or purchasing more costly, healthy foods. paying co-pays for their own medication versus paying their rent. And the bottom line is that neither the labor market nor the social safety net in the US is sufficient to keep families out of poverty. More is needed. 

Increasingly, we also know that economic and material hardship are significant predictors of child welfare involvement. This shows up as neglect often in the child welfare system. penalizing families for not having the means or resources necessary to make up for these market failures or government shortcomings. This type of neglect suggests that addressing inadequate economic resources should be one of the core set of tools for families when aiming to prevent child welfare involvement and out-of-home placement. So guaranteed income has emerged as an evidence-informed strategy to alleviate some of the burden that families bear as a result of the market failures and safety net shortcomings.”

Guaranteed income definition.

10:42-10:49 – Luke – Blake, what is the Madison Forward Fund and what does it hope to change or accomplish?

10:50-15:56 – Blake Roberts Crall – The Madison Forward Fund is a research program that piloted the impacts of guaranteed income on the lives of low-income people. 

• Madison Forward Fund
• Mayors for a Guaranteed Income
• Institute for Research on Poverty
• Center for Guaranteed Income Research

15:57-17:46 – Luke – It’s important to acknowledge the stigma and mistrust around some of our safety net systems as it has led to billions of dollars left on the table as reported by Matthew Desmond and others recently. If people are embarrassed to access or distrustful of anti-poverty programs, then they aren’t achieving their objectives. 

• Poverty, by America – Matthew Desmond

17:47-25:06 - Allison – Recurring, unconditional and unrestricted. Recipients can trust that it will be available to them during the period that it has been promised compared to many conditional and restricted public benefits. 

Participants spend the money on basic needs.

Guaranteed income also offers opportunities for economic mobility.

Impacts of pandemic on economic stability.

19,000 participants involved in these programs that are being researched by CGIR.

Positive impacts on people’s economic stability and mobility.

• Stanford Basic Income Lab
• Stockton Economic Empowerment Demonstration
• Center for Guaranteed Income Research
• American Rescue Plan Act funding Guaranteed Income programs

25:07-26:58 - Luke – Poverty does not equal neglect; however, families living in poverty are much more likely to be investigated by Child Protective Services. So guaranteed income may reduce the likelihood that a family is investigated by CPS. 

How does GI align with our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative?

• The Bridge Project – Zilber Family Foundation 

26:59-32:01 - Blake – While Guaranteed Income is not a silver bullet, it can improve economic stability and social connections.

Positive impacts on people’s mental health and stress levels. GI allows participants to provide more for their kids, pay rent, cover child care costs. Participant stories are available on the Madison Forward Fund website. 

When caregivers can meet their own needs, they can show up better for their kids.

• Participant Stories – Madison Forward Fund

32:02-32:55 – Luke – People’s stories to illustrate the data is always helpful and powerful. Same question to Allison.

32:56-39:38 - Allison – How might guaranteed income be a child welfare intervention? Labor market and social safety net are inadequate to help families meet their basic needs for too many families. Guaranteed income assumes that families know best how to care for their children.

New York child welfare pilot. Los Angeles County pilot with youth that have aged out of child care.

• New York State Direct Cash Transfer Research Pilot
• Breathe: Los Angeles County’s Guaranteed Income Program

39:39-40:55 – Luke – How might we implement these models into our communities?

40:56-45:57 – Blake – The mechanics and administration of guaranteed income programs are not complicated. There is more and more data improving the evidence base and showing its effectiveness. We need to do more basic education about what guaranteed income is and what it can accomplish. GI is a policy choice that will need to be made to help pay for it. 

45:58-47:46 - Luke – Education and mental model shifts will be important to policy and funding changes that support guaranteed income programs. How might guaranteed income programs lead to cost savings if it leads to a reduction in child welfare spending?

47:47-50:20 - Allison – Research on guaranteed income is nascent. There is a growing body of evidence. Thinking more about cost-benefit analysis. The Child Tax Credit expansion during COVID, which mirrors a guaranteed income program, cut the child poverty rate in half. 

• The Anti-Poverty Effects of the Expanded Child Tax Credit – Brookings 

50:21-50:31 - Luke – When we have the will, our policies can have a profound impact.

50:32-52:25 - Blake – Many states have implemented a state child tax credit. We don’t have that here in Wisconsin. Wisconsin Farmers Union has interest in guaranteed income to support agricultural communities in the state. 

• Wisconsin Governor’s Health Equity Council Report
• Wisconsin Farmers Union

52:26-52:50 - Luke Waldo – Closing and Gratitude 

52:51-52:57 - Allison – Thank you.

52:58-53:08 – Blake – Thank you.

53:09-56:34 - Luke Waldo - 3 Key Takeaways 

1. “People are working hard, and yet they still can’t make ends meet.” 75 years ago, we didn’t look down on people who were impacted by polio, we came together as a society to keep our kids safe by creating a solution to prevent it. How might we change the conditions today for the working poor as we did for families and communities generations ago so that they can thrive? 
2. “Think about the freedom of choice, trust, and self-determination as a way of bringing some trust back to our social safety net and welfare systems.”  As Blake and Dr. Thompson shared, programs like guaranteed income that are predictable and unconditional, parents and caregivers have shown us that they not only know what’s best for their kids, they do what’s best for their kids by investing in their basic needs like food, housing, childcare, and education. 
3. “There’s a way to address poverty, it’s about the will.” Whether it’s through expanded Child Tax Credits that have shown to cut childhood poverty in half in a single year, or through increased minimum wage or guaranteed income programs, there are policy and systems changes that have proven to combat poverty and improve family economic stability and mobility. So how might we see the systemic issues of family poverty as we did with our public health crises from a century ago, so that the conditions might change for overloaded families through effective Family Prosperity policies and systems changes?

Join the conversation and connect with us!

• Visit our podcast page on our ICFW website to learn more about the experts you hear in this series.
• Subscribe, rate our show and leave feedback in the comments section.
• Sign up for our Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and our quarterly newsletter.
• Follow the Institute for Child and Family Well-being on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.
• Email Luke Waldo at [email protected] to share how you are changing the conditions so that children and families can thrive.