Petra Bagust (Grey Areas) and Charlotte Cook (Hair And Loathing) share intimate details and personal stories about different parts of their bodies and how their hair impacts their everyday lives.

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If you've ever wondered why people want lovely long eyelashes and hair - but are not so keen on the monobrow or the dreaded sign of salt and pepper ageing - we might just have the podcast for you.

Broadcasters and award-winning podcasters Petra Bagust (Grey Areas) and Charlotte Cook (Hair and Loathing) have become accidental advocates of embracing both body hair and grey hair. In a special crossover podcast episode, the two reflect on their respective experiences of going grey and being hairy.

Petra and Charlotte also run through some of the reactions they've had from the outside world and how they have felt along the way. Charlotte proudly shows off her slowly evolving grey hair collection while Petra talks about all the ways she's tried to keep herself to the impossible standard of the 'hairless norm'.

Together they talk about societal expectations, challenging the norm, and why society is so invested in what other people do with their HEAD and BODY hair. The pair start by chatting over a favourite pastime with a luxurious hair 'edit' from stylist Stephen Marr in the video below, before settling in at Petra's home to discuss everything prickly from top to toe.

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Western women have been pushed around by powerful marketing for around a century to maintain the hairless beauty standard, but that's not the same for all ethnicities. In episode four Charlotte Cook looks at the cultural and religious aspects of body hair.

By Charlotte Cook

Society for hundreds of years has told women to be hairless.

Until recently women are rarely ever shown with any hairy bits anywhere in the media. I certainly never braved my pits in public. (Until now).

But slowly people and brands have started to challenge what is seen as 'normal' - although we still have a long way to go.

As a pakeha woman, the westernised ideal of hairlessness has been the standard I've tried so hard to meet.

Billions of dollars every year is spent telling me how I should look, behave and dress.

But the women of New Zealand are all kinds of body shapes, types and have various amounts of hair.

So I got off my hairy butt and went out to find some other women to tell me how - their ethnicities, cultures, upbringings and religions impacted their decisions around body hair.

Firstly I heard from Ana Mcallister, she's a artist writer, Instagram influencer and a body positive wahine Māori [email protected]

There has been a lot of mahi around wahine and the decolonisation of their periods. Ana said there isn't the same focus on this in terms of body-hair but it's definitely on the rise around beauty standards as a whole.

She said there was no shame or whakama around body hair until colonisation came on the scene.

As part of her decolinisation and acceptance of bodies she chooses to grow it all out and make it sexy.

"Disrupting that by doing things that they would consider gross or unfeminine or not sexually attractive is a way to disrupt that whole system of how we've been represented for 251 years..."

Talking to her, about how she embraces her body, made me feel instantly better and more sexy in mine.

But what we choose to do is not always about beauty, for some people it is religious.

Anjum Rahman is someone we hear from on topics about hate speech, terrorism or the Christchurch Mosque attacks.

But in this instance, I got to hear her most wonderful giggle as we talked about what her body hair means to her and her faith.

Muslim men and women are both required to remove their armpit and public hair. It's not gendered, it's just about keeping clean and following the religion.

"As long as you can't wrap it around your finger it's okay..."

It's not scientific, but it's the measurement some people go by to know when they need a trim... …

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Toes, tummies, upper lips, gorilla hands, chins and everywhere in-between...hair! It's everywhere! And some of it, for good reason. Others, not so much. In this third episode of Hair and Loathing Charlotte Cook finds out about hormones, treatments and the journey for transwomen.

Toes, tummies, upper lips, gorilla hands, chins and everywhere in-between...hair! It's everywhere. And some of it, for good reason. Others, not so much.

By Charlotte Cook

In this episode I talk about hormones, treatments and the journey for transwomen, and once again, it might be a confronting listen for some of you.

We know that most bodies have hair. It comes in varying degrees, but for the most part, it's normal - even if we are told it isn't! So how do we rule out if it's a red flag for something more serious like a health condition?

Endocrinologist Dr Stella Milsom said, "There are a few tell-tale signs, but most of it has to do with hormones."

She says what's considered a 'normal' amount of hair tends to depend on your family history and ethnicity.

But unfortunately, there's no real test to determine how much you should have.

Instead, there is a test called the Ferriman-Gallwey scale which scores the face, chest, abdomen, legs and back.

But concerns for people vary and some people with modest body hair are really troubled by it, she said.

The next step is to work out what's causing it. Often it's because of the male type hormone, Androgen, which can trigger "male pattern hair growth" - the parts you would typically expect a man to grow hair.

There is also a condition called Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome. The condition affects about 10 percent of women in New Zealand who usually have an increased level of testosterone and insulin. The symptoms range from mild to severe and can include irregular or heavy periods, acne, excess facial or body hair, scalp hair loss and weight gain.

Andrea was diagnosed with PCOS in 2018, and knows the psychological impacts of body hair all too well.

"I have excessive hair on my arms, stomach, feet, toes, moustache, I've got a monobrow as well. I've just always been quite a hairy person."

"When I was diagnosed with PCOS it kinda made sense as to why I was such a hairy person."

This knowledge helped her move past her youth where she compared herself to others, and realised that hair is nothing to be ashamed about.

Though for some women, their journey with body hair is a little different.

One of those people who's had a tougher job of navigating body hair is Tris. She's been taking male-to-female hormone replacement therapy for 2 years…

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In Episode 2 Charlotte takes a look at what it means to be hairy when it comes time to get your kit off in front of someone else. Questions around sex and intimacy - and whether to maintain some fur - or be bold and beautiful with your hair down there, at front and centre in Hirsute and Horny.

By Charlotte Cook

Just like hair that you shave, it comes back. And so do I, with a second episode of Hair and Loathing.

Yes, it's still about body hair, but more specifically about how it gets in your head, rather than on it when it comes to sex and body image.

This episode features women of all ages and their thoughts on trends, how body hair has impacted intimacy and why everyone is hell bent on the idea that hairlessness improves hygiene. That's if history has anything to say about it.

(News flash - while having no hair in your private bits might feel breezy and cleaner, it doesn't actually change the situation down there)

Hirsute and Horny is the most personal part of the series. Instead of masking my emotions with some terrible humour, I actually had to talk about how I felt.

A 7-year-old me would have loved if someone could have torn down the walls of the patriarchy, so that I could embrace my wee hairy toes.

Scientists say there was once a thick layer of hair across all bodies. But natural selection got rid of the furriest ones because they were more likely to catch lice and other parasite nasties.

The Encyclopedia of Hair said people began to perceive nearly-hairless bodies as more sexually attractive, and as a good potential mate because they had healthy-parasite free-skin... go figure.

Today, there are fewer parasites to catch, but it seems the obsession with 'hairlessness = sexy,' remains.

However, this came as a surprise to the couple of 80-odd year-old women I spoke to who were shocked to learn about the rather violent waxing procedure women go through to keep themselves 'fur free' downstairs.

One even said perhaps they do it "so men didn't get hair caught between their teeth".

And while I don't have any examples of an involuntary floss, I do have plenty of memories that involve crippling anxiety and self-doubt that race through my inner monologue when my clothes finally come off.

I also bravely asked my mum about her own sex life, and whether she considered the way she felt about her body would impact on my own self esteem.

"No, I don't think I thought about it, which is kind of a shame really. I didn't consider what I would say to you would have an impact on how you felt about yourself. "…

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Welcome to Hair and Loathing, a new four-part podcast series about women and body hair. Yep, we are talking bums, boobs, thighs, toes and tummies. You name it, it's probably got some hair on it! In this first episode, presenter Charlotte Cook, digs deep to find out body hair can become an overwhelming issue for young women in a society that has for so long promoted a 'barely there' aesthetic.

It's a prickly subject, sure to raise some eyebrows, or perhaps the hairs on the back of your neck.

Welcome to Hair and Loathing, a new four-part podcast series about women and body hair. Yep, we are talking bums, boobs, thighs, toes and tummies. You name it, it's probably got some hair on it!

By Charlotte Cook

I'm Charlotte Cook, a 26-year-old woman with thick dark body hair, and I wanted to understand why this small insignificant fact about me, has taken up a big part of my brain for so long.

Like many other women, for me, the emotions tagged around body hair are shame, disgust and masculinity. It comes with a sense of not fitting in, not being womanly and not being attractive.

So I wanted to investigate why that is, it's natural! So why is Western culture so dead set on removing it?

During the process of making this podcast, I grew out all of my own body hair, which as you can imagine was a minefield of its own - including the part where my screams (while having a Brazilian) will now be archived forever as a 'public record'.

Featured throughout the series is body hair expert, Virginia Braun who has studied the topic for years, and there isn't much about all the bits she hasn't heard before.

A study of hers found 86 percent of their female sample had removed pubic hair in their lifetime - 69 percent reported 'current' removal.

She said this was a trend which had been increasing over the past 100-odd years.

Some excerpts featured in New Zealand newspaper advertisements in the early 1900s were actually more like instruction manuals on how to rid yourself of 'unsightly hair.'

Braun said "These were quite interesting because it was actually teaching people, 'this is disgusting', 'that is unattractive... a feminine woman shouldn't have leg hair."

Someone who flies in the face of those 'instruction manuals' is Musician and chippy, Priya Sami.

For years she's let her leg hair get caught in the wind and unashamedly raises her arms with fully-formed and beautifully conditioned pits. …

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Hair and Loathing is a new podcast series presented and produced by Charlotte Cook, and takes an inside look at why women maintain a 'barely there' look to satisfy the status quo and why some women are pushing back in the fight to keep their short and curlies front and centre.

Body hair is something we've all got, the girls, the guys, the gays and the theys. Most people can remember getting their first pubic hair: sometimes it comes with a sense of pride, but for others it brings shame. Then for the lucky few, it comes in the other parts, perhaps parts that you wouldn't 'traditionally' expect.

By Charlotte Cook

For me it grew on my toes, tummy and upper lip - and that's just some of it. Thick black hairs sprouted all over me long before my 10th birthday. Try as I might, 16 years later, they aren't going anywhere.

I've plucked, pulled, lasered and shaved, but stubbornly they return, just as vibrant as they were before.

This body hair came with a sense of shame, embarrassment and whakama. It shouldn't be there, I had learned. Body hair was wrong, ugly, and unfeminine.

As a teenager I was bullied by boys because of my moustache - likely because it was more impressive than theirs. You'd never catch me in a bikini or jandals. And NEVER mind even considering a bit of hanky-panky, because who could possibly love a woman with a snail trail. I carried the shame like a cloak - always looking for the best way to keep it hidden, a secret that I had body hair.

But I'm not alone.

Being 'fuzz free' conforms to at least a century of beauty standards for women, so is it really any wonder why we tend to look down at ourselves with disgust?

In this four part series, I talk to the experts who've looked at the trends and the women who've adhered to them.

A study by Virginia Braun, a Professor of psychology and gender studies, said women have been "told and sold" for decades that they should do everything possible to keep "unsightly" hair out of public view and certainly not have it on display.

She breaks down everything from whether the move to prepubescent looking Brazilians is actually a bit creepy to what way the population of New Zealand most commonly wear their short and curlies, or lack of.

Because the topic isn't personal enough already, I talked to my own mother, Michelle Callum, who admitted she'd spent an absurd amount of time dealing to her 'hairy bits.'

"I've worked out that I've spent 32,000 hours plucking in my lifetime," she tells me.

Oh, and that's only on her face! …

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