Pull your tickets out and silence your cell phones as we dive into another episode in our For the Love of Broadway series! As live theater comes back into all of our lives, we’re going straight to the heart and soul behind it. The actors, the writers, the composers—all work together to put these fantastic and magical shows out day in and day out, and we want to know what inspires them to do it. Maybe it’s always been their dream to hit the big stage, maybe it’s something they stumbled upon. Or perhaps, like our guest today, singing became a passion when he was charged with singing at the family business. As a young boy, Christopher Jackson began performing at services for his family’s funeral home business. And while that’s not the most jolly kick-off to his career, it gave him the confidence and courage to head to New York at 17 and star on Broadway by 22. Oh and also—no big deal—he’s been in some small productions like The Lion King, In The Heights and Hamilton. This week, Jen and Christopher talk about that dream that starts as a tiny seed and carries you to a destination you could have never imagined, those magical and life changing moments (like being a black man playing President George Washington performing in The White House for the first black president, Barack Obama) and what it means to widen your world to other mediums, all while trying to stay grounded outside of the roles being played to fully embrace your identity apart from the lights of Broadway. 
  
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Hamilton’s Christopher Jackson on Knowing Who You Are—On and Off Broadway

Welcome to the For the Love Podcast community. New York Times Bestselling author Jen Hatmaker’s life’s work is to lead and serve women as they genuinely show up for their own lives. In these conversations we need not fear the truth, or hard questions, or spiritual curiosity, or challenging unjust systems; that is literally why we are here, and we’re so glad you’ve joined us. We believe women living in freedom are the answer to all that ails society. When we are exactly who we are, how we are, where we are, as we were always meant to be, women are the 8th wonders of the world. For the love of all that is good, right, wrong, hard, fun, perplexing, wondrous and thought-provoking, Jen’s here for it all with eye-opening conversations with some of the best people on earth.

Society & Culture

Personal Journals

History

Philosophy

Places & Travel

Education

Training

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Higher Education

K-12

Educational Technology

Jen and Isabel Allende discuss her novel, Violeta, and why Allende makes her bold choices in characters, events, and settings. Allende shares her fascinating personal background - born in Peru, living as a refugee, and eventually immigrating to the U.S. where she began her writing career.

Allende explains how Violeta's story was inspired by her own mother's life and letters, which Allende has meticulously preserved over decades. The author discusses how Violeta's complicated romantic relationships and experiences of political upheaval mirror Allende's own life.

Particularly compelling moments include:


Allende's description and showing of the extensive archive of her mother's letters

The author's insights on the challenges women writers face, having to work harder than men to achieve respect

Allende's personal experiences with family tragedy that informed the novel

The author's delight in crafting the "villain" character of Julián, as well as the beloved nanny character based on Allende's own housekeeper


Overall, you’ll hear a dynamic conversation between Jen and Isabel on life, love, and loss. 

Novel Summary:
The novel follows the life of Violeta, who is born in 1920 in the aftermath of World War I and the onset of Spanish flu pandemic. The story traces Violeta's tumultuous life as she navigates historic events, including the Great Depression forcing her family into poverty and a relocation to a remote part of their South American homeland.

Structured through a series of letters Violeta writes to her grandson, the narrative portrays her resilience, passion, and humor against the backdrop of major 20th century historical events and upheavals, including women's rights struggles. The story arcs through Violeta's experiences of love, heartbreak, and the ebb and flow of wealth, set against the sweeping historical context of an unnamed South American country.
* * *
Guest’s Links:
Isabel’s Website - https://www.isabelallende.com/en 
Isabel’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/allendeisabel/ 
Isabel’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/isabellallende
Isabel’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/isabelallende/ 

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
List of Isabel’s Books - https://www.isabelallende.com/en/books 
Violeta by Isabel Allende - ​​https://www.isabelallende.com/en/book/violeta 
James by Percival Everett - https://www.amazon.com/James-Novel-Percival-Everett/dp/0385550367 

Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ 
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ 
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1
 
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[BONUS] Jen Hatmaker Book Club ft. Violeta by Isabel Allende

For this special bonus episode, Jen talks with WNBA star, Brittney Griner, who shares her powerful story of resilience after she was wrongfully detained in Russian prisons for nearly a year. Brittney provides a heartbreaking firsthand account of the inhumane conditions she endured, from the lack of legal rights and translators to cruel psychological tactics by guards. She opens up about the pivotal role her faith played in giving her mental strength to survive.
Brittney also discusses the ongoing trauma she has faced since returning home, and the renewed sense of motivation to use her voice and platform to advocate for other detainees abroad still seeking freedom. 
Jen and Brittney discuss:

Griner's harrowing account of being imprisoned in Russia and how she’s fighting to get more US prisoners home

The pivotal role her faith and reading the Bible played in giving her strength to survive mentally and emotionally.

Her candid discussion of the ongoing trauma she's working through since returning to the U.S.

Her optimism about the WNBA's rising popularity to force meaningful change in addressing the glaring pay gap with men's basketball.


Thought-Provoking Quotes:
"My biggest fear was the fear of being forgotten." - Brittney Griner
"We feel like we're in control a lot in our everyday lives. But being over there, I was in a place where I needed help. I couldn't control anything. It was out of my hands. I had to rely on something, or I would have gone crazy...I would have Bible study on Sundays and I think that's what got me through, honestly." - Brittney Griner
"We need everybody to buy into [the WNBA]. We need to challenge companies to stop just checking a box and saying, 'Oh, we fight for equality. We had a month. We had some shirts.' That's a step. But we need you to put dollars down to make a difference." - Brittney Griner
Resources Mentioned in this Bonus Episode: 
Caitlin Clark - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlin_Clark
“It Gets Better Project” - https://bit.ly/4al2EaZ
Coming Home by Brittney Griner - https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Home-Brittney-Griner/dp/0593801342
Guest Link:
Website - https://wearebg.org/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/brittneyyevettegriner
Twitter - https://twitter.com/brittneygriner
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BrittneyGriner
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1
 
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[BONUS] A Year Lost and Found: Brittney Griner's Story of Survival

Continuing In our For the Love of The Matriarchy series, Jen talks with powerful women who are taking innovative approaches to their work, their relationships, and their joy. Bozoma Saint John is a trailblazing marketing executive whose career has taken her to the heights of companies like Pepsi, Apple, Uber and Netflix. But her path to becoming a "badass" has been one marked by profound loss and upheaval. 
From the loss of her first child and her husband's battle with cancer, to being told she's "too much" by those closest to her, Bozoma opens up about summoning resilience from life's lowest lows. She discusses redefining what true strength looks like, embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo, and pioneering a collaborative model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice.

Jen and Bozoma discuss:

Embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo and offends those in power

Redefining strength not as impenetrable toughness, but as the pliability in experiencing brokenness yet still rising again

The complexities of reconciling life's tragedies with its gifts and holding space for gratitude amid loss

Pioneering a collaborative, trust-based model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice and needs


For anyone craving inspiration to honor their scars while uncompromisingly claiming their power, this is a master class.
* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“Privilege is a reliable enemy of equality. And it is sometimes insidious the lengths we’ll go to protect it because we're still benefiting [from it].” - Bozoma Saint John
"You don't have to have had the same losses I've had or suffered the same way I suffered to prove that you are worthy of the scars that you bear. You have them and it's okay." - Bozoma Saint John
“My parenting has changed because I need to make space for [my daughter] to be honest with me about what she needs so that I can be the mother that she needs; not necessarily the mother that I think is needed.” - Bozoma Saint John
"The most amazing thing about being human is how incredibly tied we are to each other. And it is a beautiful thing that even through our pain, we are still tied together as human beings." - Bozoma Saint John
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Bozoma’s Marketing Hall of Fame Induction: https://marketinghalloffame.org/inductees-leading-marketers/bozoma-saint-john-2022-marketing-inductee/
2021 Most Influential CMO: https://www.forbes.com/connect/event/2021-wmi-cmos/
Ambassador to the African Diaspora and Special Envoy to the President of Ghana: https://bit.ly/4bhmVig.
Guest’s Links:
Bozoma’s Website: https://www.bozomasaintjohn.com/
Bozoma’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SaintBoz
Bozoma’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/badassboz
Bozoma’s Instagram: http://instagram.com/badassboz
Bozoma’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bozoma-saint-john-0305441/
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
 
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Summoning Resilience In Our Darkest Times: Bozoma Saint John on Loss and Motherhood

Welcome to the For The Love of The Matriarchy series where we’ll explore all the different aspects of women working to embrace agency and celebrating their worth. As we celebrate the power of women and their accomplishments, we’ll also look at the challenges women have faced in a patriarchal society (and still face) and what that means for their bodies and autonomy. 

Cait West is an author who grew up in an extreme patriarchal Christian community. She was taught from a young age that her sole purpose was to become a submissive wife and mother. This pervasive sense of having no agency or control over her own life, combined with the constant messaging that she was inherently sinful and unworthy, took a profound toll on Cait's mental health, causing severe anxiety and depression from a very young age. Jen and Cait delve into how families can fall into toxic belief systems, and what recovery can look like.
Jen and Cait discuss:


The impact of being raised in a fundamentalist, patriarchal environment that severely restricts a woman's autonomy, education, and life choices.

The healing power of finding community, sharing one's story, and reclaiming agency after experiencing spiritual abuse and trauma.

The difficult but important choice of breaking free from oppressive systems, even when it means severing ties with your own family


* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
"[My husband] has always been my steady companion because he experienced some of that verbal abuse from my dad, and he knew what it was like...When I would have anxiety attacks, he didn't understand what was going on either, but he would just sit with me until I could get through it and come back to regulate my nervous system. He just was there with me through it. And that meant more than having someone try to fix it or totally tell me what to do." - Cait West
"I realized I had a story to tell. Going to writing conferences and learning from other writers like you who were talking about speaking up for injustice, I decided to tell part of my story online. I started doing that around 2018 and realized there's a lot more people who've been through this and they've just been silenced or afraid — people who if they say something, their family's going to cut them off. That's what happened to me in 2019. I had an interview and I started talking online about my experience and my dad decided not to talk to me anymore. I understand that fear but once I lost that relationship, I felt liberated to tell my story. Because somebody has to. Somebody has to say something." - Cait West
"Cait's my real first name, and then West is my grandmother's — what we call the maiden name. It's always resonated with me, my mother's heritage, because they're Southerners, they grew up in poverty. The women in my family have always been the leaders and the strong people of faith. And so to me, it's kind of like calling back to that heritage and recognizing it and trying to hold on to some kind of legacy after losing so much of my life." - Cait West
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Christian Patriarchy Movement - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_patriarchy
Tears of Eden (Nonprofit for survivors of spiritual abuse - https://www.tearsofeden.org/
Rift: A Memoir by Cait West - https://www.caitwest.com/book
Guest’s Links:
Website - https://www.caitwest.com/
Twitter - https://bit.ly/3UytS9l
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/caitwestwrites/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/caitwestwrites/?hl=en
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@caitwestwrites
Substack - https://caitwest.substack.com/
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ 
 
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Breaking Free From Patriarchal Rule: Cait West’s Escape from Spiritual Abuse

In our lives, we are often confronted with moments of profound change - whether it's the result of circumstances beyond our control, or a deliberate choice to step into something new. During these pivotal transitions, it can be tempting to focus on pleasing others or trying to meet the expectations of our family, friends, and community. However, truly transformative growth requires the courage to choose ourselves and to trust our inner wisdom.

Author and activist, Najwa Zebian, offers a powerful example of what it looks like to reclaim one's autonomy in the face of a lifetime of feeling out of place and unworthy. Her journey of self-discovery provides a roadmap for navigating change with conviction, self-compassion, and a commitment to living one's truth.

Jen and Najwa explore: 


The profound impact of emotional neglect and feeling out of place can deeply shape one's self-worth and choices later in life.

Connecting with the power of language and self-expression can be a vital lifeline and pathway to healing.

Making bold choices for oneself can be a necessary and courageous act of self-preservation.

Allowing one's "world to revolve around you" and trusting your own inner wisdom is essential for navigating life's changes and uncertainties with conviction and self-compassion.


Author Bio
Dr. Najwa Zebian is a Lebanese-Canadian activist, author, speaker, and educator. Najwa began to write to connect with and help heal her first students, who were a group of young refugees. Through that effort with her students, she began a deep healing process for herself. She is the author of six books. She delivered the Ted Talk, “Finding Home Through Poetry.” She also recently launched a digital school called Soul Academy and a podcast called “In the Clear.” Her latest book is called “The Only Constant.”
* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“Neglect isn't just about not getting your basic needs met. I think the most harmful neglect is not getting the things you do need." - Najwa Zebian
"There was always this invitation to not allow myself to experience anger because it was a negative thing. But now I realize there's healthy anger; there's healthy resentment; and it's also healthy to project those feelings outwards. Otherwise, they're inside." - Najwa Zebian

"I look at myself as a people pleaser — as somebody who's like, "I can't handle disappointing someone, I can't handle disappointing my family, I can't." But it got to a point where I was definitely willing to do that because I was so aware that continuing to live my life in a certain way meant that I was going to be suffering so much, and I wasn't willing to suffer in that way [anymore].” - Najwa Zebian

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Finding Home Through Poetry (Najwa’s Ted Talk) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNRygxe_8Ys
Soul Academy (Najwa’s Digital School) - https://najwa-soul-academy.teachable.com/p/home
In the Clear (Najwa’s Podcast) - https://najwazebian.com/podcasts
The Only Constant by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/the-only-constant
Welcome Home by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/welcome-home
Hijab - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab
Mind Platter by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/mind-platter

Guest’s Links:
Najwa’s Website - https://najwazebian.com/
Najwa’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/najwazebian
Najwa’s Tik Tok - https://www.tiktok.com/@najwazebian
Najwa’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/najwazebian1
Najwa’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/najwazebian
Najwa’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/najwazebian

Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/
 
To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy
  
 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hamilton’s Christopher Jackson on Knowing Who You Are—On and Off Broadway

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