Description:

Today’s conversation might have you clutching your pearls and purity rings. Jen and Amy sit down with Dr. Celeste Holbrook—sexologist, educator, and author of Missionary Position: A Slightly Irreverent Guide to Sex After Purity Culture—for the candid, hilarious, and healing “sex talk” you never had but always deserved.

From busting purity culture myths to unpacking women’s complicated relationship with pleasure, Dr. Holbrook shares the four “inner missionaries” that shape our approach to sex, why sexual shame runs so deep, and how to reclaim intimacy as the joyful gift it was always meant to be.

Highlights include: 

Unpacking women' s complicated relationship with pleasure

Dr. Holbrook prescribes the best sexy-time soundtrack

Review of the four inner missionaries (the Analyst, the Assassin, the Healer, and the Explorer) – the archetypes that define our individual approach to sex 

Celeste reveals a surprising fact that both golf carts and ejaculate have in common

How the combination of purity culture, patriarchy and capitalism are the oppression cocktail for sex

And the conversation veers off course when the trio discusses an exercise that uses Jason Mamoa to evaluate their sexual ethics

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“When I say sex education saved my relationship, I am not being bombastic. It really did help me find myself.” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook

“We view sex through a patriarchal lens. Media tells us how to feel about sex and what is sexy. So what is sexy has been historically white, thin, able-bodied, young… And the way that we view ourselves then says, well, what if I'm not all of those things? Am I still sexy? Is my body still OK?” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook

“The work for us, especially as women, is to anchor into our body to experience sensuality in order to experience sex instead of perform sex.” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook

“We need to be inside the system in order to take down the system.” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Jen Hatmake’s Sex MeCourse: SexEd For the Rest of Us - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/sex-101

Pantsuit Politics - https://www.instagram.com/pantsuitpolitics/

Missionary Position: A Slightly Irreverent Guide to Sex after Purity Culture by Dr. Celeste Holbrook - https://amzn.to/46StjOa

For the Love of Men by Liz Plank – https://amzn.to/41JtRSS 

Say Yes to Pleasure: How to Talk About Sex and Rekindle Intimacy in Midlife with Vanessa Marin – https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/say-yes-to-pleasure-how-to-talk-about-sex-and-rekindle-intimacy-in-midlife-with-vanessa-marin/

A Tribe Called Quest – https://atribecalledquest.com/blogs/discography

The Pleasure Club - https://www.drcelesteholbrook.com/https/thepleasureclub

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.drcelesteholbrook.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drcelesteholbrook/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrCelesteHolbrook/

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s time for another beloved encore presentation and this time we are bringing back this powerful podcast therapy session for your benefit and enjoyment. 

Dr. Sara Kuburic, an existential psychotherapist and author behind The @Millennial.Therapist, offers profound insights into taking ownership of our lives. Dr. Kuburic champions the idea that we are free and responsible agents, shaping our own development through our choices. While it's easy to blame external forces for unhappiness, she encourages us to embrace the amazing opportunity to engage in life fully. She poses a crucial question: how much of what we face is inflicted by us, and how much just happens? As a therapist, she equips people with tools to navigate life’s challenges, asking: “what can you change or how can you change your attitude so the situation is less painful for you?” Beyond existential thought, Jen and Dr. Kuburic explore self-loss and how we can unknowingly deceive ourselves into believing we're living the life we desire, even as our bodies signal distress through depression, anxiety, and panic.

Jen and Dr. Kuburic get honest about:

The difference between loving the "idea" of who you are versus who you actually are, and how to stop self-deception.

The point when avoiding change becomes more painful than embracing it.

Acknowledging our physical limits: how our bodies send red flags like anxiety, fear, or panic, even when we feel strong.

How an all-consuming dedication to making something work, even if it's not right for us, can lead to our weakest moments if we don't face the truth.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“We get to engage in life; we can take ownership, we can take responsibility, we can make choices, and I think that that’s really how I see human suffering. My question is always, ‘how much of it happened to you? How much of it did you inflict on yourself?’” – Dr. Sara Kuburic

“Life happens to us but that’s not all that happens. We also happen to life.” – Dr, Sara Kuburic

“The most pain I experienced actually came from my own participation, which included avoidance and self-deceit. I am not hard on myself because it came from such a pure place. I can’t be mad at myself. But, I also understand that it’s not something that serves me.” – Dr. Sara Kuburic

“The truth is there regardless of whether or not you choose to see it. It will dictate your life until you see it. So are you safe enough in yourself to handle the truth that you are resisting or avoiding? That’s a really delicate question that we need to honor.” – Dr.  Sara Kuburic

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Dr. Sara Kuburic’s “For the rest of 2025” Instagram post - https://www.instagram.com/p/C_WjH0mzF9z/

It’s On Me: Accept Hard Truths, Discover Yourself and Change Your Life

by Dr. Sara Kuburic - https://amzn.to/3Uf40yf

Dr. Sara Kuburic’s USA Today Column - https://www.usatoday.com/staff/7586635002/sara-kuburic/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.sara-kuburic.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/millennial.therapist/?hl=en

Twitter - https://x.com/SaraKuburic

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sarakuburic/

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: 

In Part 2 of this episode, we push even deeper — into the personal, the creative, the brave, and the sometimes scary places we go when we dare to  tell the truth. This time, Tyler Merritt has turned the tables on Jen and he’s asking the questions! 

We talk about what it’s like to be seen, judged, misunderstood — and still choose honesty. We talk about Awake and the vulnerability involved with retelling the painful and unvarnished parts of your story. We talk about fear. And we talk about the joy we’ve found in the middle of it all. So let’s jump back in.

In this second installment:

Jen talks about the last time that she felt truly brave and what it felt like to unearth and expose some of the most tender and personal moments of her life in such an honest and examining way

Tyler asks Jen who was her best model of kindness at a young age

Jen shares the song that is reflecting her current vibe in the world

And Tyler asks Jen what she wishes more people understood about her

Thought-provoking Quotes:

"Our stories, though they may seem new, are the things that change the world." - Jen Hatmaker

“What I asked myself when deciding to include or exclude something was, am I going to be proud of this five years from now? So that's five years further down the road. I'm going to be five years more mature, five years more healed, five more years of distance. Will I be proud of what I say five years from now? And I let that be my guide.” – Jen Hatmaker

“It's been weird to be at that center of people's judgment for quite a long time now.  I've evolved a lot in the public eye, which is weird for everybody. It's weird for me. It's weird for people to watch. At all points along the way, I can say sincerely, I have really and truly been trying to do my best. I just wish people knew that.” – Jen Hatmaker

“My story is not special and I think that's what makes it important. I hope that the readers will see their own story inside of it somewhere in some way on some level and then decide to take from mine what they need for theirs. So I can't wait to find out.” – Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Depoe Bay, Oregon – https://visittheoregoncoast.com/cities/depoe-bay/

Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40MYuXs

Jen shares the first line from Awake – https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMrDdj4sCaQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=ZzdzZGdvM3h5Mmd6

This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don’t Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4m135Oj

Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/

Before You Call The Cops by The Tyler Merritt Project – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGu_xGBekpo

I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/47by9Gf

Luna Sea Fish House in Yachats, Oregon – https://www.lunaseafishhouse.com/

Buy My Own Drinks by Runaway June – https://open.spotify.com/track/40p6WybX0YvcLdMlLja3oL

A Door Made for Me by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4mv4jBd

A Long December by Counting Crows - https://open.spotify.com/track/1tjKIXd7DYNklhVSgBxREi

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/

Twitter - https://x.com/ttmproject

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recorded live from the Oregon coast on the final day of MeCamp, this special two-part conversation between Jen and her partner Tyler Merritt is the perfect blend of hilarity, heart, and honesty.

In Part 1, Jen and Tyler share stories from their MeCamp adventures — including a whale-watching excursion that got a little too close for comfort, and a near-death boat ride they’ll never forget. They also reflect on the power of personal storytelling, how vulnerability has shown up in their lives and work, and why telling the truth (even when it’s awkward) can be both healing and hilarious.

Discussing the impact of Tyler's viral video "Before You Call the Cops" to Jen's reflections on her upcoming book "Awake," this conversation reveals the transformative potential of embracing vulnerability. Tune in to discover how opening up about our most personal stories can not only heal us but also inspire others to see themselves in our narratives.

Tyler talks about the most awkward moment he’s ever had because he opted to be vulnerable and honest instead of protecting his pride

He and Jen discuss the hardest truths they’ve ever had to tell themselves

And Tyler goes back into the annals to reveal his most embarrassing moment as a performer on stage

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“The spirit of MeCamp almost got us killed.”– Tyler Merritt

“I'm aware that it's not every day that most people see a six foot two black man with dreadlocks crying in real life. I have never regretted a single moment in my life of being transparent about how I feel emotionally with somebody. Vulnerability has never kicked back at me in a negative way.”– Tyler Merritt

“I think vulnerability begets vulnerability. Because I was saying who I am and I was allowing myself to be open to the world, the world was willing to take that. What it did within the black community is it allowed a lot of other black people to begin making their own videos going, before you call the cops, I just want you to know this about me. So it opened up a door of vulnerability that really allowed that to kind of echo.”– Tyler Merritt

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Depoe Bay, Oregon – https://visittheoregoncoast.com/cities/depoe-bay/

Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40MYuXs

Jen shares the first line from Awake – https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMrDdj4sCaQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=ZzdzZGdvM3h5Mmd6

This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don’t Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4m135Oj

Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/

Before You Call The Cops by The Tyler Merritt Project – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGu_xGBekpo

I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/47by9Gf

Luna Sea Fish House in Yachats, Oregon – https://www.lunaseafishhouse.com/

Buy My Own Drinks by Runaway June – https://open.spotify.com/track/40p6WybX0YvcLdMlLja3oL

A Door Made for Me by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4mv4jBd

A Long December by Counting Crows - https://open.spotify.com/track/1tjKIXd7DYNklhVSgBxREi

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/

Twitter - https://x.com/ttmproject

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris Whitaker didn’t come to writing the usual way. His path began with a series of harrowing experiences in young adulthood that left him searching for tools to process trauma and find peace. As a boy, he’d found comfort in libraries, and it was there he discovered a book on writing-as-therapy that encouraged him to fictionalize his pain and set stories in places of joy. Writing became a lifeline—and the foundation for the emotionally rich characters that define his work.

Chris’ personal story deeply informs his bestselling novels, including We Begin at the End and our July JHBC selection, All the Colors of the Dark, resonating with readers worldwide through their authenticity and heart.

Join us as we explore his remarkable journey—from pain to page—and the healing power of storytelling.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“I didn't set out to write such a sprawling, massive book. I had a simple, top line pitch and then I began writing it and it evolved into like this just epic book.” – Chris Whitaker

“I thought the book's probably not going to fit neatly into a genre because life never does, you know? There might be a crime in it, but it's the least interesting thing in the book. It's going to probably be a coming of age story, definitely a story of friendship, definitely a look at family and first love and, and pirates and beekeepers as well. Obviously.” – Chris Whitaker

“I wanted everything to lead somewhere. Everything that you think is a throwaway in the story, every line that seems like it doesn't quite fit, it leads somewhere. The entire story is a network that is leading you towards the answer.” – Chris Whitaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Jen’s post about reading All The Colors of the Dark while on a ski trip – http://bit.ly/4kVA5qt

We Begin at the End by Chris Whitaker - https://amzn.to/4lrONFL

Amy Einhorn, Editor - https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/people/article/93078-amy-einhorn-named-fiction-publisher-at-crown.html 

The Last Child: A Novel by John Hart - https://amzn.to/4nyXcsT

Nita Prose, author - https://www.nitaprose.com/

Tall Oaks by Chris Whitaker - https://amzn.to/40dYSOc

A Prayer for Owen Meany: A Novel by John Irving - https://amzn.to/4kb8UH9

Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow: A Novel by Gabrielled Zevin

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://sites.prh.com/chriswhitaker

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/chriswhitakerauthor/

Twitter - https://x.com/whittyauthor

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

Our guest, Mary Katherine Backstrom, knows this journey well. Once rooted in evangelical certainty, her world began to unravel—her marriage, career, and faith all shaken. In her raw and hilarious memoir, Not That Wheel Jesus, MK shares what it was like to question everything, wrestle with purity culture’s impact, and walk through the grief of lost certainties.

As she puts it: “I walked through the rubble, I danced in the fire pits with my friends, and I've emerged into this quiet post-apocalyptic space where I can hear my own voice.”

Whether you’re navigating your own faith shift or just curious, this conversation will resonate. And don’t forget—you can leave us your thoughts at jenhatmaker.com/podcast!

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“Everybody I speak to that's been on a growth journey of any sort—spiritual, emotional, whatever—you get to a point where you realize that confidence comes from not knowing everything and being at peace with what you can't figure out.” – MK Backstrom

“It felt like I was looking at my life and feeling  like there's so much loss here, especially my sexuality. My church robbed me of joy. And that's the opposite of what was promised. Once I realized I participated in that behavior, I was able to make amends.” – MK Backstrom 

“When I walk into that [church] space, it feels like going into a home where a child experienced abuse. I don't know that that's going to leave my body for a very long time. And it doesn't mean that I'm never gonna go back, but I also listen to myself better now and I'm not going to go somewhere where my body feels like it's on fire.” – MK Backstrom

“My body is still responding to everything it's experienced for 40 years in the church. And I'm finally getting to the place where I'm starting to understand what my baseline feels like.” – MK Backstrom

“If there is a God worth worshiping and there's a life worth living, those things can stand up to your big questions. No God is so fragile that your human curiosity is going to break this to pieces. No problem is so big in your life that you're not gonna get up and keep moving. There's a lot of freedom after the fear. Trust the process, ask questions.” – MK Backstrom

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Holy Hot Mess: Finding God in the Details of this Weird and Wonderful Life by Mary Katherine Backstrom - https://amzn.to/3ZV5GAi

Not That Wheel, Jesus!: Stories From a Faith That Went Off-Road in the Best (and Worst) Possible Ways by Mary Katherine Backstrom - https://amzn.to/45KbY9v

Rachel Held Evans - https://rachelheldevans.com/

Searching for Sunday: Loving, Leaving, and Finding the Church by Rachel Held Evans - https://amzn.to/4lxKkRY

Dallas Willard - https://dwillard.org/

Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/

Sex MeCourse - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/sex-101

Dr. Celeste Holbrook - https://www.drcelesteholbrook.com/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.mkbackstrom.com/

Twitter - https://x.com/mkbackstrom

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/MKBackstrom

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@marykatherinebackstrom

Substack - https://marykatherinebackstrom.substack.com/

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:

We’ve got an absolute legend in the house. She's a country music powerhouse, a Grammy winner, a TV star, a best-selling cookbook author, and honestly, probably the only person who could out-sing you and out-cook you on the same day — we’re talking about the one and only Trisha Yearwood.

You know this queen’s voice from classics like 'She's in Love with the Boy' and 'How Do I Live' — songs that have made us cry, and belt in our cars, and maybe text someone we shouldn’t. And now, she’s back with a brand new album called The Mirror — and let us tell you, it’s not just a comeback, it’s a reflection, literally. It’s raw, it’s real, and it’s perhaps her most vulnerable project yet. The Mirror is Trisha’s first album where she’s co-written every song, stepping into new creative territory as both a singer and songwriter. It’s a window into Trisha’s life at this moment—a culmination of decades in the spotlight, but told on her own terms. It’s not just an album—it’s a statement of identity, and an invitation to look at yourself with courage and compassion.

We’re talking about life, love, growth, and how Trisha continues to reinvent herself while staying grounded in what matters. So grab a coffee, or something stronger, and get comfy — because Trisha and Jen are inviting us into their conversation on how we let go of the things that no longer fit who we are so we can embrace the things putting fresh wind at our backs.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“There’s something in me that really believes in me. It has to be or I wouldn't be sitting here doing these things.”– Trisha Yearwood

“I've never been a person who could answer the question, ‘where do you see yourself in the next five years?’ I just know that I'm open to the opportunities.”– Trisha Yearwood

“For a long time. I let the approval part of me drive the car. I drove that car to plenty of places I was out of alignment with. I don't think I'll ever be completely rid of that voice, but she's in the backseat now. She's not driving the car anymore.”– Trisha Yearwood

“Songwriting makes you instantly intimate because you're having to be really vulnerable.”– Trisha Yearwood

“From a young age, a lot of women are taught that we don't get to write our own story and we don't get to take control. But you get to decide what the truth about you is and how you want your life to be.”– Trisha Yearwood

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Mirror Album by Trisha Yearwood - https://trishayearwood.lnk.to/TheMirror

Trisha’s Southern Kitchen on Food Network - https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/trishas-southern-kitchen

Dry Needling - https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/16542-dry-needling

Frozen Shoulder in Menopause - https://bit.ly/44NNOJi

Awake: a Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40Og791

Walkaway Joe - https://open.spotify.com/track/5pzoq7ggrA0GN3SMjy0NT8

She’s in Love with a Boy - https://open.spotify.com/track/4EJvW4NHAk7TrIeX44jjXF

The Song Remembers When - https://open.spotify.com/track/4dS7TYCTGKyhs9ZDt8iPcT

The Bluebird Cafe - https://bluebirdcafe.com/

TalkShopLive - https://talkshop.live/channels/trishayearwood

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.trishayearwood.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/TrishaYearwood

Twitter - https://x.com/TrishaYearwood

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TrishaYearwood

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw0Nn2LTsXGB0rP53Z0ACWQ

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@itstrishayearwood

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Priyanka Chopra is an award-winning actor, producer, and humanitarian—and one of the most recognizable faces in the world. In this 2021 conversation, she reflects on her memoir Unfinished, sharing her journey from India to the U.S. and the lessons she’s learned about identity, ambition, and reinvention.

Priyanka talks about the power of perseverance, trusting your instincts, and embracing failure as part of success. She reminds us that it's never too late to start again—and you’re always allowed to say yes to your dreams.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“There is something profoundly wonderful about blooming a little later in your story. It's never too late. Everything you've done is a foundation for what you'll do next. It might not come up for a couple of years, but you will find out eventually, that made my life richer. This made my skillset better. Like nothing is ever wasted if you're doing something you're passionate about.” – Jen Hatmaker

“I am at a much more confident place that the insecurities of my past don’t affect me anymore.” – Priyanka Chopra 

“Anything is a possibility. You can make a career out of anything. When I was growing up, there were like five career options – you could become a doctor, or an engineer, or a lawyer, or an accountant… But now, it’s endless. It’s such a great time for all of us with ambition and desire, no matter where you are, or what your circumstances are, to invest in your dreams.” – Priyanka Chopra Jonas

“My feminism is equal-opportunity, the freedom to make the choices I want to make for my individual  life, just the way men have enjoyed for such a long time. That’s why its so important for us as women to talk about and normalize ambition for girls.” – Priyanka Chopra Jonas

“I truly believe that today is my investment for tomorrow. I hope with all of the decisions that I’m taking now, and will take in the next ten years, the girl I am at that time will be happy. That’s really my quest in my life, is the pursuit of happiness. I feel joy in my job, I feel joy in home, I feel joy in my family. I feel joy in being able to create. And I just look at it as, if you’re not happy, don’t do it. Step away from it.” – Priyanka Chopra Jonas

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Ambition is a Girl’s Best Friend: Priyanka Chopra on Reconnecting with Our Dreams - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-32/ambition-is-a-girls-best-friend-priyanka-chopra-jonas-on-reconnecting-with-our-dreams/

Unfinished by Priyanka Chopra Jonas - https://amzn.to/2Zf5ps8

73 Questions with Priyanka Chopra, Vogue - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOUV2rwMr1g

Priyanka Chopra on the For the Love podcast (Youtube) - https://youtu.be/G1k83Tx6U34

It’s Okay To Be a Late Bloomer: Forbes Magazine’s Rich Karlgaard - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-17/its-okay-to-be-a-late-bloomer-forbes-magazines-rich-karlgaard/

Late Bloomers: The Power of Patience in a World Obsessed with Early Achievement by Rich Karlgaard - https://amzn.to/4kvW1IC

Miss World 2000 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_World_2000

Guest’s Links:

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/priyankachopra/

Twitter - https://x.com/priyankachopra

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/priyankachopra

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/user/PriyankaChopraLive

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@priyankachopra.fp

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen has been a quiet superfan of David Gate ever since discovering one of his poems on Instagram and instantly texting it to six friends. A British-born poet, writer, and visual artist, David explores themes of care, community, and spiritual resilience. Today, he joins Jen and Amy to talk about his latest work, A Rebellion of Care—a powerful blend of essays and poetry rooted in tenderness, authenticity, and resistance. From writing to flour milling and homesteading, David’s life is a living practice of nurturing both self and community with intention.

Key highlights from this conversation include: 

How radical tenderness can be an act of resistance

Why are many people living  radicalized lives without realizing it, and often for things they don't truly care about

How homesteading is a rebellion against modern food practices

Reimagining masculinity and what it could look like in a better world

Building community and friendship as a vital source of joy and support in life

How anger and joy are companion emotions

The sacredness of everyday practices

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“I did not want to have an email job and I did not want to be in meetings that could have been emails. I did not want to be on Slack. I just didn't want that to be what I was spending my time doing. I loved caring for people, and I loved creating and writing, and I got to do that within the church world.” – David Gate

“It's just very hard not to be cynical about everything and what I found was that I was cynical because I really, really cared. And, because I really, really cared, everything was just so overwhelming, and the easiest way to deal with that was to shut down and be cynical and be snarky. But, I realized that I had to press through and embrace what was behind that cynicism. so I had to really embrace my own earnestness and my own care in the world and concentrate on what I wanted to build rather than what I wanted to tear down.” – David Gate

“It’s a constant battle to speak the truth. Even things we all know It can be difficult to say, if it's not something that is normally said, and it's not something that is normally expressed, so you have to fight for that and you have to fight for your experience of the truth. You have to fight for your story. You have to fight for all of that.” – David Gate

“I think it's very, very difficult for men to reach for emotional honesty because everything tells you that you're failing if you do that. But it's the most important work right now. And so much of what men are actually looking for in this world, intimacy, a sense of place, a sense of belonging, companionship, adventure, excitement, is on the other side of reaching for that emotional honesty.” – David Gate

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

A Rebellion of Care: Poems and Essays by David Gate - https://amzn.to/4jjf87X

Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/3GnS21w

Cultivating Belonging and Evolving Faith with Jeff Chu - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/cultivating-belonging-and-evolving-faith-with-jeff-chu/

Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/

Armando Veve, Illustrator - https://www.instagram.com/armandoveve/

Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3YHKgpw

Sinners film (2025) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31193180/

Malaprop's Bookstore, Asheville - https://www.malaprops.com/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.davidgatepoet.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/davidgatepoet/

Substack - https://substack.com/@davidgatepoet

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jennie Garth is best known to Gen-Xers for her iconic role playing Kelly Taylor on the megahit television series Beverly Hills 90210.  Fans of the show may remember Kelly’s pivotal “I Choose Me” episode (airing thirty years ago this past May) when she stood between dreamboats Brandon and Dylan and declared that she was choosing herself. 

Jennie shaped an entire era of pop culture, and now, at fifty-two, she is embracing an incredible new chapter of life—one filled with bold conversations about aging, empowerment, self-love, and the beautiful messiness of midlife. Through her thought-provoking “I Choose Me” podcast and a forthcoming memoir of the same name, Jennie is using her platform to champion other women over fifty by challenging outdated narratives around aging and sparking empowering conversations.

Today, Jennie, Jen and Amy talk about what choosing yourself looks like on a normal day, and what it means to be graduate beyond our growing family years into a more independent space where a new age of self-discovery is possible because, as Jennie reminds us, choosing “you” isn’t selfish—it’s the most powerful act of self-respect.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

“It was through my conversations with fans, whether it was on social media. or at autograph events that I kept hearing, ‘I didn't know I could choose me until Kelly Taylor told me it was an option.’” – Jennie Garth

“If I had gone to college and lived a normal life, then I would have learned things that I didn't actually end up learning until I was in my forties and fifties. So now I'm just searching like, ‘What did I miss and how can I be better? How can I learn more about myself?’” – Jennie Garth

“You look around on social media and you see other people's lives and think, ‘My God, they have it all figured out.’ And I just never felt like that personally.” – Jennie Garth

“Loving yourself is a journey and it’s imperative to your wellbeing.” – Jennie Garth

“I don’t want to please people by being what they want me to be or fitting into this character's shoes. I love acting and I'll never not love acting. But I had to take the bull by the horns and take control of my life.” – Jennie Garth

“Competition amongst women was real. It was just part of the  world I grew up in. I had to be better than the next girl. What a waste of so much precious time and energy. I used to be intimidated by other women's success or knowledge or position. I kick myself for all the years of lost opportunity of that kind of camaraderie and connection with other women. I feel it so strongly now. It's something that can never be quieted again,” – Jennie Garth

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Beverly Hills, 90210 (1990-2000) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098749/

Tori Spelling - https://www.instagram.com/p/DKAANczu145/?hl=en

I Choose Me Women’s Summit 2025 - https://jenniegarth.com/pages/i-choose-me-movement

I Choose Me: Chasing Joy, Finding Purpose & Embracing Reinvention by Jennie Garth - https://amzn.to/44d8eMM

Me by Jennie Garth QVC Collection - https://jenniegarth.com/pages/me-by-jennie-garth

Feeding America - https://www.feedingamerica.org/partners/entertainment-council/jennie-garth

American Heart Association - https://www.heart.org/en/health-topics/at-the-heart-of-it-with-nancy-brown/the-power-of-positivity-with-jennie-garth

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://jenniegarth.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jenniegarth/

Twitter - https://x.com/jenniegarth

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jenniegarth

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@officialjenniegarth

Podcast - https://jenniegarth.com/pages/i-choose-me-podcast

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. 

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices