There are conversations that stretch you a little. And then there are conversations that gently but firmly rearrange the furniture in your mind.

This week, I sat down with Keith Kurlander and Will Van Derveer—co-founders of the Integrative Psychiatry Institute—to talk about something that's generating a lot of curiosity and, let's be honest, some anxiety: psychedelic-assisted therapy.

Before you brace yourself, this isn't a hype session. It's a thoughtful, grounded conversation about trauma, the nervous system, and what happens when traditional therapy isn't enough to reach the deepest layers of pain we carry.

We explored how trauma shapes our personalities, how it imprints on the body, and why insight alone often doesn't create lasting change. As someone who cares deeply about the Enneagram and recovery, I found this especially compelling. So much of our personality structure is built around adaptation—strategies that once kept us safe but now quietly run the show.

Keith and Will explain how psychedelic-assisted therapy, when done legally and in carefully structured clinical settings, may help people access and heal places that feel otherwise unreachable. We also talk about the risks, the ethics, and the importance of discernment.

This isn't about chasing peak experiences. It's about healing what's unfinished.

If you've ever felt stuck in patterns that insight alone couldn't untangle… if you've wondered whether deeper healing is possible… this conversation might open a door.

LEARN MORE ABOUT WILL AND KEITH

WILL VAN DERVEER, MD, is a leader in the adoption of integrative psychiatry practices to treat mental health issues. He is cofounder of the Integrative Psychiatry Institute and Integrative Psychiatry Centers and cohost of The Higher Practice Podcast for Optimal Mental Health. He has published research on MDMA-assisted psychotherapy. Dr. Van Derveer has published research on MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD [1] and written book chapters in the fields of ketamine-assisted psychotherapy and other clinical applications of psychedelic compounds. His passion is finding effective relief from psychological suffering using a vast array of the most natural approaches possible. In addition to traditional medical training, He is a meditation instructor and has trained in shamanism, EMDR, somatic experiencing, internal family systems, cognitive behavioral therapy, and hypnosis.

KEITH KURLANDER, MA, LPC, is cofounder of the Integrative Psychiatry Institute and Integrative Psychiatry Centers and cohost of The Higher Practice Podcast for Optimal Mental Health. He graduated Naropa University in 2005 with a master's degree in Transpersonal Counseling Psychology, and he has practiced integrative psychotherapy and coaching with individuals, couples and groups for over 15 years. Keith's work as a coach focuses on celebrities, influencers, entrepreneurs, and CEOs who want to make huge changes in their lives, overcome long-standing patterns, and achieve greater levels of fulfillment. Keith specializes in helping individuals achieve optimal mental health and peak potential.

Social Links & Website (for promotional use)

Website - Keith Kurlander, MA, LPC Instagram (Keith) | Instagram (Will)LinkedIn (Keith) | LinkedIn (Will) Psychedelic Therapy: A Revolutionary Approach to Restoring Your Mental Health and Reclaiming Your Life (Shambhala; March 31, 2026),

In this episode of Typology, I sit down with therapist and author Joe Nucci for a thoughtful, wide-ranging conversation about the Enneagram, mental health, and the growing misuse of therapeutic language in our culture.

Joe—an Enneagram Three—shares his own journey with the Enneagram, the hidden shame dynamics of Threes, and how public success can quietly pull us toward performance instead of integrity. Together, we explore why tools like the Enneagram work best as maps, not MRIs—helpful for self-awareness and empathy, but dangerous when they turn into rigid labels.

We also dig into Joe's new book, Psycho Babble, discussing how clinical terms like narcissist, OCD, and trauma have become everyday adjectives—and what it costs us when labels replace discernment, curiosity, and real relationship.

This is a grounded, honest conversation about growth, character, and what it actually means to become a healthier version of yourself—without turning self-awareness into self-avoidance.

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ABOUT JOE NUCCI

Joe Nucci is an expert in breaking down how people talk about mental health. He's a psychotherapist who corrects widely misused terms, adds valuable nuance and explains complex ideas in ways anyone can understand. He can take a mental health lens to any hot button issue. Anyone who listens to him will walk away knowing themselves and others a little better. Joe reached over 10 million people in his first 6 months of posting content. His book "Psychobabble" explores why mental health information is so confusing to navigate and how to more easily understand different perspectives about mental health. He also has an upcoming podcast, being produced by Luminary Podcasts, where he will take deeper dives into the different mental health topics that he explores on Instagram, Facebook and Tiktok @joenuccitherapy

Pscyhobabble: Viral Mental Health Myths & the Truths to Set You Free

What happens when Enneagram Eight energy grows up, softens its edges, and learns to lead with both strength and soul?

In this episode of Typology, Ian Morgan Cron sits down with restaurateur, entrepreneur, and conscious capitalism advocate Dan Simons, co-owner of Founding Farmers, for a wide-ranging, deeply human conversation about power, protection, and what it really means to build a culture of care.

Dan is brand-new to the Enneagram—and quickly discovers he's an Eight with a strong Nine wing, a compelling combination that blends moral clarity with empathy, decisiveness with nuance, and fire with calm. Together, Ian and Dan explore how Eights aren't just challengers—they're often defenders: leaders shaped by early experiences of injustice who instinctively stand up for the vulnerable.

Along the way, they talk candidly about:

• Why anger can be a tool rather than a liability when it's consciously harnessed

• How leadership failures are often listening failures (and the three most powerful words a leader can say)

• How putting emotional well-being on equal footing with profit actually increases performance, retention, and long-term value

• What a healthy workplace should feel like when you walk through the door (hint: think Labrador retriever, not shark tank)

This is a masterclass in evolved leadership and a hopeful vision of capitalism done with conscience. If you're a leader, an Enneagram Eight, or someone longing for work cultures that don't crush the human spirit, this conversation will leave you both challenged and encouraged—in the best possible way.

Listen in and pull up a chair. There's a seat for you at this table.

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About Dan Simons

Dan Simons is regarded as a leading voice in mission-driven business practices, known for championing people-centric culture and responsible industry standards while developing systems that deliver profitability. He and his partner, Michael Vucurevich, are Co-Owners of Founding Farmers Restaurant Group in partnership with the North Dakota Farmers Union. Their goal is to generate profits for American family farmers, earn farmers a larger share of the food dollar, and influence the sourcing decisions of suppliers and others in the hospitality industry. They operate eight sustainably run restaurants, one DC-based distillery, and a full service catering and event design company. He teaches courses at The George Washington University, hosts a podcast (Founding DC), and sits on the advisory boards of the DC chapter of Conscious Capitalism, OpenTable, and the Health Action Alliance Women's Health at Work Program. He blogs at www.DanSimonsSays.com and can be found across most social channels @DanSimonsSays. Visit https://www.dansimonssays.com/ to learn more.

What happens when the worst thing you've been afraid of actually happens—and you're still standing?

In this episode of Typology, I sit down with songwriter Brad Warren—an Enneagram Six, a man in long-term recovery, a husband, a father, and someone who has walked straight through unimaginable grief and come out the other side with humility, humor, and hard-won wisdom. Brad is the kind of person who tells the truth without posturing, who can laugh at himself without diminishing himself, and who understands—deeply—that fear doesn't disappear just because you name it. But naming it does change the game.

We talk about the Enneagram Six's instinct to scan the horizon for danger, to rehearse conversations that never happen, and to catastrophize not because they're weak—but because they care. A lot. Brad shares how losing a child forced him to face his worst fears head-on, and how recovery, faith, and accountability helped him learn the difference between imagined catastrophe and lived reality. There's a kind of quiet courage in the way he describes trusting God—not a God who's looking to smite him, but one who's patiently inviting him to rest.

Along the way, we explore humor as both a survival strategy and a spiritual practice, the surprising connection between humility and laughter, and how Sixes learn to move from fear-driven vigilance to faith-filled presence. We also touch on marriage, loyalty, religious deconstruction with gratitude instead of bitterness, and the life-saving power of people who are willing to tell you the truth when your mind is lying to you.

This episode is funny, tender, honest, and deeply human. It's about fear—but it's even more about trust. And what it looks like, day by day, to choose it anyway.

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About Brad Warren

Brad Warren is a Nashville-based songwriter and artist best known as one half of the hitmaking Warren Brothers. He has co-written major country hits recorded by Tim McGraw, Toby Keith , Keith Urban, Faith Hill , Martina McBride, Dierks Bentley, Jason Aldean and more.

Brad is also the host of the Good Grief Good God podcast. He and his wife Michelle lost their oldest son Sage in 2020 and the podcast is in honor of him. Brad covers an array of other topics (recovery, God, mental and physical health, and The Music Business) as well as grief. Guests have ranged from Sheryl Crow and Amy Grant to Scott Hamilton and Charles Esten.

What happens when the need to appear competent becomes the very thing that disconnects us from others—and from ourselves?

In this deeply honest and surprisingly funny conversation, Ian welcomes author, speaker, and Enneagram Three, Steve Cuss for a wide-ranging dialogue on anxiety, performance, false self, and the quiet freedom that comes with becoming more human-sized. Drawing from Steve's experience as a hospital chaplain, pastor, and leadership consultant, they explore why our most polished coping strategies often come from fear, how predictable patterns keep us stuck, and why anxiety is so contagious in families, churches, and organizations.

Along the way, they unpack the Enneagram Three's drive to succeed, the exhaustion of self-presentation, the difference between ambition and authenticity, and why true maturity looks a lot like being relaxed—no masks required. Expect stories, laughs, hard-earned wisdom, and a refreshing reminder that you don't have to win the room to belong in it.

If your nervous system needs a deep breath and your soul could use some permission to stand down from proving itself, this episode is for you.

About Steve Cuss

Steve Cuss, M.Div. is a pastor, former chaplain, and founder of Capable Life, which helps people lower internal and relational anxiety in the workplace and homeplace. Steve is a Spiritual Care Professional in the Association of Clinical Pastoral Education, holding 1600 hours of supervised ministry in CPE and a Masters degree focusing on Family Systems Theory and Theology. Steve, his wife, Lisa, and their two sons and a daughter live in Erie, Colorado.

Connect with Steve at:

Website: https://capablelife.com and https://stevecusswords.com

Soul Care Intensives: https://capablelife.com/pages/intensives

Podcast: Being Human with Steve Cuss

Instagram | X

What if your most meaningful work begins after you stop striving to prove yourself?

In this warm, wide-ranging conversation, I sit down with old friend, songwriter, filmmaker, and Enneagram Two Andrew Greer for a heartful exploration of loneliness, love, boundaries, creativity, and what it really means to live a good life.

Andrew opens up about the hidden sadness behind the Enneagram Two's gift for connection—the ache that often fuels the desire to help, anticipate, and care for others. Together, we unpack how pride, control, and fear of being a burden can quietly shape relationships, and how learning to receive may be the most courageous spiritual practice of all.

We also dive into Andrew's new book, More Than a President, and explore Jimmy Carter as a quintessential Enneagram One—principled, disciplined, justice-driven, and far more impactful after the presidency than during it.

This episode is a meditation on personality, vocation, and maturity—on shifting focus from résumé to soul, from achievement to love, from striving to rest. It's thoughtful, funny, deeply human, and quietly challenging.

Pull up a chair. This one stays with you.

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About Andrew Greer

Author, musician, and filmmaker, Andrew Greer has published three books, released multiple chart-topping recordings, and directed the PBS documentary Plainspoken, a film inspired by the lives of Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter and their neighbors in Plains, Georgia. A Texas native, and longtime Nashvillian, Greer now makes his home in Plains.

Website: https://www.andrew-greer.com/ New Book: http://sundayswithjimmycarter.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andrewbgreer/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/agreermusic

This Christmas, we're delighted to bring back one of our most beloved conversations with Enneagram Three, pastor, and author AJ Sherrill. In this replay, AJ joins me to revisit the Nativity story—not as the sentimental tale we often breeze past each year, but as a rich, multilayered narrative pulsing with mystery, courage, vulnerability, and divine surprise.

AJ shares his own journey into spiritual direction, what it's teaching him about listening, presence, and compassion, and how the Enneagram continues to shape his inner world. We explore why the season invites us to slow down, pay attention, and resist the frantic pace that so easily numbs our capacity for wonder.

Together, we dig beneath the familiar Christmas imagery to uncover the often-misunderstood characters who surround the manger—the homeowner who offered radical hospitality, Zechariah rediscovering awe through silence, and even Herod, whose shadow side has more to teach us than we might expect. Their stories echo our own desires, fears, and growth edges in striking ways.

We also have some fun speculating about the Enneagram archetypes present in the Christmas narrative—Mary, Joseph, John the Baptist, and others—and how their unique postures toward God can inspire our own transformation.

This episode is thoughtful, illuminating, and sprinkled with the kind of laughter and honesty that always seems to show up when AJ is with us.

A perfect listen for Christmas Day.

Settle in, take a breath, and join us as we rediscover the story beneath the story—and the God who meets us there.

With the holidays just around the corner, we're bringing back a conversation that continues to deliver relational gold. Whether you heard it the first time or you're discovering it now, this replay with author and Enneagram teacher Christina Wilcox offers a beautifully practical and deeply compassionate look at how the Enneagram can transform the way we show up for one another during the most emotionally charged season of the year.

In this episode, Christina shares her journey of discovering herself as an Enneagram Six—along with the courage, clarity, and self-understanding that followed. Together, we explore how each type navigates holiday stress, joy, expectation, and connection…and how you can care for the people you love in ways that truly meet them where they are.

You'll learn:

• How to support friends and family of every Enneagram type through the busyness and emotional intensity of the holidays

• Practical tools for managing social anxiety, especially for Sixes

• Why presence and gratitude matter so deeply, particularly for Fours—and how all of us can cultivate them

• Simple, insightful practices for building healthier, more attuned relationships this time of year

Whether you're hoping to deepen your emotional intelligence, strengthen your closest relationships, or simply bring more kindness and awareness into your holiday rhythms, this episode is a gift worth unwrapping again.

Lean in, listen well, and let the Enneagram help you love the people in your life a little better this Christmas.

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P.S. For a limited time, take 40% off all Enneagram Courses through the holidays. Use the discount code HOLIDAY40 here.

What happens when the life you built—carefully, faithfully, and publicly—splits down the middle in a single night?

On this episode of Typology, I sit down with bestselling author and beloved cultural commentator Jen Hatmaker to talk about her stunning new memoir, Awake. Jen, an Enneagram Three with a courageous streak that can look a whole lot like an Eight, opens up about the "before-and-after date" that changed everything—July 11, 2020—when her 26-year marriage ended, and her whole world cracked open.

Together, we explore what it means to wake up in midlife:

• to grief and betrayal,

• to leaving behind scripts you never chose,

• to freedom from needing to be liked,

• to discovering what really matters in the "second half of life."

We dive into the Enneagram and the unique way Threes navigate identity, image, success, and failure—especially when life doesn't cooperate with the plan. Jen shares how therapy, embodiment work, and raw honesty helped her rebuild, and why this memoir isn't about spectacle, but about hope.

This is a conversation about midlife transition, spiritual awakening, and the quiet miracle of becoming more fully yourself—right when you thought everything was falling apart.

If you're navigating change, heartbreak, faith shifts, or a midlife renaissance of your own, this episode will feel like a hand on your shoulder and a light on the path.

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ABOUT JEN HATMAKER

Jen Hatmaker is a bestselling author, award-winning podcaster, speaker, and fierce advocate for women living in freedom and agency. With 14 books—including four New York Times bestsellers—along with her beloved For the Love podcast, Jen Hatmaker Book Club, and more, she reaches millions with her signature mix of humor, vulnerability, and wisdom. Her newest book, AWAKE: A Memoir, (released on September 23, 2025), chronicles her raw, real-time journey through the shocking end of her 26-year marriage and surprising reinvention. She lives in a creaky old farmhouse, loves 90s country, and drinks Almond Joy creamer like it's a personality trait. Find her at JenHatmaker.com.

CONNECT WITH IAN

Follow Ian on Facebook or Instagram at @ianmorgancron and @typologypodcast. Check out Ian's website at www.ianmorgancron.com

**Interested in a 30-minute one-on-one virtual coaching session with Ian? Fill out this intake form and we'll be in touch.

This week on Typology, we welcomed the incomparable Lynn Smith—former national news anchor turned communications strategist, executive coach, and proud (and newly discovered) Enneagram Three with a Two wing. And friends… buckle up. This conversation is a masterclass in emotional intelligence, presence, and what it means to pursue success without losing yourself in the chase.

Fresh off taking the Typology Assessment, Lynn joined us in that familiar Three-ish blend of humor, candor, and high-octane energy, joking that the results made her want to immediately call her therapist. What unfolded from there was a remarkably vulnerable exploration of people-pleasing, approval-seeking, identity, and the hidden costs of a lifetime spent earning applause.

Lynn pulled back the curtain on her years in broadcast news—an industry where worth is measured in seconds, headlines, and flawless delivery—and revealed the deeper story beneath her polished exterior: a lifelong drive to achieve, a tenderness inherited from her family's immigrant narrative, and a powerful desire to help others communicate with confidence and authenticity.

But the real gem of this episode is Lynn's groundbreaking work on what she calls "the brain bully." That inner critic. That saboteur whispering that you're one misstep away from failure. That internal voice Threes know far too well.

Lynn not only names it—she teaches you how to outsmart it.

Her framework for dismantling fear and building resilient confidence is practical, empowering, and deeply human. And when she reveals her own brain bully's name—"Bob"—you can't help but laugh and exhale. Sometimes the most powerful breakthroughs come with a wink.

We also wandered into a juicy conversation about magnetism versus authenticity, why your energy enters a room a full tenth of a second before you do, and how the Enneagram can radically improve communication across teams, industries, and families.

Connect with Lynn Smith at www.lynnsmith.com or on socials at @lynnsmithtv

CONNECT WITH IAN

Learn more about the Enneagram at www.ianmorgancron.com or follow Ian at @ianmorgancron and @typologypodcast on Instagram and Facebook

P.S. Interested in a 30-minute one-on-one virtual coaching session with Ian? Fill out our interest form here.