The Allender Center Podcast

Friends, there's something we want to share with you about the Allender Center Podcast:

For more than a decade, we've released a new episode nearly every week. That's 650+ episodes in 10 years. All free. We're immensely proud of what we've created together. And we're deeply grateful for the people who have listened, written to us, and made these conversations part of their lives.

Now, we've decided to slow our pace for a season. For the next few months, the podcast will be released twice a month.

To be clear, we're not going anywhere. We're simply making a little more room to pay attention to what's next.

After ten years of doing this every week, we need time to plan, listen, get creative, and try some things we haven't had the space to try. We want to bring you more guests. More opportunities to hear from you. And we want to begin bringing these conversations to you in video format, inviting you into the room with us.

And we want to be honest about something else: this decision is also about finances.

We're doing our best to steward what we have, care well for our people, and still create the quality of work we believe in. We don't want the answer to be asking our team to simply do more, faster, for less.

It's important to us that you are part of this conversation, and a part of what comes next, too. There are two ways you can join us in this season:

You'll hear in today's episode that this decision wasn't made lightly. There's grief and frustration in it. There's also hope, possibility, and a lot of imagination about what could come next.

We want to hear from you, too. What has the podcast meant to you? What would you love to hear more of? What would you dream about for its future? Our team will read every response.

Share Your Thoughts: https://forms.gle/c3icYo4aSNiE8NuV9

We'd genuinely love to hear from you.

Your monthly financial support helps us continue creating new episodes, continue to host our library of 650+ episodes, invest in the technology and resources we need, compensate the people behind the podcast well, and even move into a new video format.

If you'd like to partner with us in what comes next, we'd be deeply grateful. You can become a monthly supporter at whatever amount feels right for you, starting at just $5 a month.

Become a Monthly Supporter: https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

Whether you share your thoughts, support the podcast, keep listening, or simply tell someone about an episode that meant something to you, thank you for being part of this.

We're paying attention. We're listening. And we're excited to see what comes next.

With deep gratitude,

- The Allender Center Podcast Team (Dan, Rachael, Jeanette, Andrew, Christena, Christina, Melissa, Lauren, Beth, Kelsey)

P.S. And one more way to be part of what's next: We're bringing the Allender Center Podcast LIVE to Nashville! If you're nearby, come join us. We'd love to have you in the room for an evening of conversation and connection—and, of course, a live podcast experience.

You can find out more and get tickets on our website:

theallendercenter.org/events

If you've heard us talk about Recovery Weeks, or you've been thinking about joining us, you might be wondering: What exactly happens during those six days?

Recovery Week is a focused, immersive experience designed to help survivors explore the ways their stories of past sexual abuse have shaped their lives.

In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender is joined by longtime Recovery Week facilitators Wendell Moss, LMHC, and Sue Cunningham, MA, MS, LPC, to offer you a glimpse into the experience.

They describe what to expect, particularly in the Story Groups. The work invites us to consider the difference between conviction and condemnation, and what it might mean to receive the truth of our stories without contempt.

They also explore some of the surprises of Recovery Week: the laughter that emerges alongside grief, the friendships and camaraderie that grow, and the relief of discovering that you are not alone. Together, they discuss how compassionate witness can loosen the grip of shame and create space to encounter God as one who sees, grieves, and cares.

Listen in for a glimpse of what to expect, and why this experience can be both more difficult and more joyful than many participants anticipate.

To learn more about Recovery Weeks with the Allender Center, please visit: https://theallendercenter.org/workshops

This episode is centered around recovery from sexual abuse. It also contains explicit language. Listener discretion is advised.

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at: theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit: https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

In 1988, Dr. Dan Allender led the very first Recovery Week. Nearly four decades later, these immersive experiences continue to offer sacred space for survivors of childhood sexual abuse to come together, face the impact of what happened, and find care and restoration for the profound heartache they've experienced.

But how do you know if Recovery Week is right for you? Do you need to do any preparation or pre-work before you arrive? And what if you're not sure your story is "big enough" or "bad enough" to warrant being there?

In this episode, Dan is joined by longtime friends and Recovery Week leaders and facilitators Linda Royster and Scott Gibson, who lead the Women's and Men's Recovery Weeks, respectively. Together, they talk about why this work is so sacred to them and offer a glimpse into the decades of experience and carefully developed process behind Recovery Week.

They also talk honestly about what it can feel like to consider stepping into a week like this: the fear, resistance, desire for a step-by-step plan, and uncertainty about what you're supposed to bring with you.

Here's the truth: you don't have to arrive ready to resolve everything. Instead, Recovery Week invites you to begin with curiosity, honesty, and perhaps even a little kindness toward yourself.

Listen in to learn more about who Recovery Week is for, why it exists, and how to begin discerning whether it might be a place for you.

Next week, Dan will return with Wendell Moss and Sue Cunningham to give you an inside glimpse into what actually happens when you arrive at a Recovery Week.

If you've been thinking about attending a Recovery Week for Men or Women, or if you're just hearing about it for the first time, we invite you to learn more at:

https://theallendercenter.org/workshops

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at: theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit: https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

Today's teenagers are growing up in a world of both unprecedented connection... and disconnection.

Teens have constant access to information, social media, gaming, pornography, and now AI. They can turn to a screen for advice, distraction, or even a sense of social connection. Yet many teenagers are feeling increasingly alone, while anxiety, depression, and self-harm remain prevalent concerns.

At the same time, the adults in their lives are often overwhelmed, disconnected, and dysregulated, too.

So how do we offer authentic connection to teenagers in the middle of all this?

Dr. Chinwé Williams joins Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to explore what teenagers are facing and how the adults around them can respond. A therapist, author, and expert in adolescent and family wellness, Dr. Williams is also a parent of three, bringing both professional expertise and personal experience to the conversation.

You'll hear more about:

• how to notice the need for connection underneath a teenager's difficult behavior

• why fury to curiosity can change the way we respond when a teen pulls away, shuts down, or acts out

• how small moments can build connection over time

• how repair matters when we miss

• how our own regulation and presence can help teenagers develop resilience

Whether you're a parent, teacher, mentor, grandparent, or anyone with a teenager in your life, this conversation offers a grounded look at what young people are facing, as well as very practical ways to stay connected to them in the middle of it.

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at: theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit:

https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

We spend a lot of time preparing for big moments: years of school, months of planning a wedding, or working toward a major event or big trip.

But how often do we think about what happens after?

Dan recently came home from some significant events and found himself living that question in real time.

In this conversation with Rachael, they explore the process of extraction—the vulnerable, often overlooked period after a season of intense effort comes to an end.

What does our body, soul, and spirit need when the adrenaline wears off? How do we make room for grief, celebration, rest, and savoring? And how might exhaustion leave us more vulnerable to accusation, isolation, or spiritual warfare?

If you're coming down from something big—or have one on the horizon—this conversation offers a chance to slow down and consider what it might look like to care for yourself well on the other side.

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at: theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit: https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

What do you do with the parts of yourself you'd rather not have?

Maybe you've learned to stay small, keep the peace, take care of everyone else, or work hard enough that you don't have to pay much attention to what's happening inside. Maybe you're deeply aware of other people's needs but have a harder time knowing what you need. Or maybe you've done a lot of personal work and still find that old wounds show up in familiar ways.

In this conversation, Dr. Alison Cook invites us to look at our inner lives with fresh eyes. She brings psychology, philosophy, and theology together to explore what it means to become more secure—not by getting rid of the difficult parts of ourselves, but by learning to tend to them well.

Join Dan, Rachael, and Alison for a thoughtful conversation about the inner work of becoming more secure, the ways our past can shape how we relate to ourselves and others, and what it might look like to make room for the whole of who you are.

Want to go deeper? Check out Alison's new book, "The Secure Soul," where she explores the wounds beneath our disconnection and offers a path toward greater safety, trust, and connection within ourselves, with others, and with God. Find out more and order your copy at: https://www.dralisoncook.com/the-secure-soul

*This episode contains brief explicit language. Listener discretion is advised.

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at: theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit:

https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

As political division, cultural anxiety, and deep polarization continue to reshape the Church, many pastors find themselves carrying impossible expectations. They're called to shepherd people through fear, conflict, and uncertainty while navigating their own grief, exhaustion, and questions.

Last year, Dr. Rose Madrid Swetman joined Dan and Rachael to explore the growing burdens facing pastors and ministry leaders and why resilient leadership matters now more than ever. In this conversation, she returns to reflect on how those challenges have continued to evolve.

As Executive Director of the Center for Transforming Engagement at The Seattle School, Rose works alongside pastors, ministry leaders, and church organizations every day.

Drawing on both new research and the stories she's hearing firsthand, she offers an honest look at the challenges leaders are navigating, and what it looks like to remain faithful in this cultural moment.

You'll hear why resilience is about more than self-care, why finding the right people to support you is more important than ever, and why practices like lament, Sabbath, community, and discernment aren't luxuries, but are essential rhythms for sustaining hope.

Whether you're leading a church, serving in ministry, or simply seeking to follow Jesus in a complex and divided world, we hope this conversation offers some comfort and hope as we pursue what it means to embody the way of Jesus in a changing world.

Related Resources:

• Feeling overwhelmed or isolated in ministry? You're not alone. The Center for Transforming Engagement offers tools, support, and community to help you rediscover joy, build resilience, and lead with lasting impact. Find program offerings and resources at transformingengagement.org.

• To learn more about how Christian nationalism is shaping congregations, communities, and public life, consider attending the free, two-day virtual summit from the Center for Transforming Engagement on September 3-4, 2026, "Understanding Christian Nationalism and the Crisis of the State." This seven part video series is designed to help pastors, priests, bishops, and formation leaders respond with theological clarity, historical grounding, and practices that form people away from fear, nationalism, and the misuse of Christian faith in public life. You can find out more and register for free here.

• Rose cites the recent study from Hartford Institute for Religion Research & Faith Communities Today (2026): Signs of Rebound Amid Uneven Recovery: The Changing Congregational Landscape.

• She also mentions the book she's reading, Forming Communities of Hope in the Great Unraveling: Leadership in a Changing World by Alan J. Roxburgh and Roy Searle.

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at: theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit: https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

Why does it sometimes feel like the moment we begin to experience healing or clarity… life gets harder?

In this episode, Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen explore the often-unseen ways evil works to undermine our hearts—not only through obvious suffering, but through shame, distraction, accusation, fear, and despair.

Drawing from Ephesians 6, they unpack the "schemes of evil" that seek to keep us disconnected from God, from ourselves, and from one another.

Rather than inviting fear or fixation on spiritual warfare, you'll hear how to recognize these patterns without giving them more power than they deserve, and what it means to stand firm in the authority and love of Christ.

Whether you're navigating personal struggles, experiencing unexpected opposition, or simply wondering why growth can feel so costly, this episode offers practical wisdom for discerning what you're up against—and a hopeful reminder that evil never has the final word.

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at: theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit: https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

What happens when trauma doesn't just wound your heart—but your experience of God?

In this deeply thoughtful conversation, Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen welcome therapist and author Colleen Ramser to discuss her remarkable new book, The Shattered Soul: Restoring Wholeness and Rebuilding Your Faith After Spiritual Trauma.

Rather than offering another conversation about "church hurt," Colleen invites us to consider something far more profound: spiritual trauma doesn't simply change what we believe. It changes how our bodies experience faith. Through her vision of the "somatic soul," she explores how trauma fragments us, leaving many people feeling disconnected from the God they once knew. Prayer can become frightening. Worship can feel empty. The very practices that once brought life can begin to feel unsafe, not because faith has disappeared, but because trauma has reshaped our relationship to it.

Together, they explore why the question isn't whether you've deconstructed your faith. Trauma has already done that work of fragmentation. The invitation is toward reconstruction: patiently tending to the wounds that separate us from ourselves, from others, and from God. Along the way, they discuss the posture beneath spiritual abuse, the role of lament, and why healing begins by caring for the wound rather than debating whether it was "bad enough" to count.

This is one of the richest conversations we've had on spiritual abuse and religious trauma, offering language, hope, and a deeply embodied vision of healing for anyone seeking to rebuild trust after their faith has been shattered.

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at:

theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit:

https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

What makes someone a good friend? We often think about showing up well for the people we love. But what if being a good friend also means learning how to receive care—and even extending that same compassion to ourselves?

Dan and Rachael begin this conversation with a simple story about a bus ride that never happened. What unfolds is something bigger: Why is it so hard to ask for help? What keeps us pushing through pain instead of letting others care for us?

Together, they explore what faithful friendship looks like: friends who know our stories, tell us the truth with kindness, and lovingly interrupt the patterns that keep us isolated. They also consider how we can begin to offer ourselves that same honesty, tenderness, and care.

As you listen, consider: What kind of friend have you become—to the people you love, and to yourself?

*This episode contains some explicit language. Listener discretion is advised.

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at: theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit:

https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]