Today's episode is dedicated to your questions!

Recently, we invited our email subscribers to submit the questions they'd like Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to explore on the podcast. Thank you to everyone who responded with such honesty, vulnerability, and courage.

Hosted by Melissa Dowell from the Allender Center, this conversation explores questions about what healing really looks like, how to care for aging parents while honoring healthy boundaries, what to do when you feel stuck in your story, how to engage others' stories wisely, and how to navigate the complexities of family, faith, and trauma.

We're deeply grateful for your questions and for the trust you continue to place in this community. If your question wasn't featured this time, stay tuned—we hope to continue these listener Q&A conversations in future episodes.

Not on our email list yet? Sign up to receive podcast updates, resources, and future opportunities to submit your questions: https://theallendercenter.org/subscribe

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at: theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit:

https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

What does true maturity actually look like? Is it age? Experience? Having the right answers?

Many of us grew up assuming we would recognize maturity when we saw it. We looked to parents, pastors, leaders, and institutions to show us what it meant to be wise, trustworthy, and faithful. Yet over time, some of those assumptions have been challenged. People we admired have disappointed us. Systems we trusted have fallen short. And if we're honest, we've disappointed ourselves too.

So where does that leave us?

This week, Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen wrestle with a different vision of maturity—one shaped less by certainty and control and more by truth-telling, curiosity, humility, and a growing orientation toward the heart of God.

Drawing from Jeremiah's lament, Micah 6:8, and their own stories, they explore why maturity is often forged in the midst of struggle rather than certainty.

They also reflect on the gift of trustworthy companions. These are people who help us ask better questions, tell the truth about our lives, and remind us that growth was never meant to happen alone.

After all, one of the clearest signs of maturity may be knowing when it's time to reach out to others.

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at:

theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit:

https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

This week, Dan and Rachael sit down with survivor, advocate, and Narrative Focused Trauma Care alumni Kate Ouimette-Wedell for a conversation that is both heartbreaking and deeply hopeful.

After moving to Los Angeles to pursue a career in music, Kate was trafficked and spent more than a decade in the commercial sex industry. In this episode, she shares part of her story with remarkable courage, offering insight into the realities of exploitation, the long road of recovery, and the resilience that makes healing possible.

Together, they explore the power of story, the importance of being seen and believed, and why healing often begins when someone is willing to sit with us in our pain rather than rush to fix it.

Through her own healing journey and her work with survivors through Cherished LA, Kate bears witness to a hope rooted in the belief that every person has immeasurable worth and that no story is beyond the reach of compassion, restoration, and delight.

Please note: This episode includes discussions of human trafficking, sexual exploitation, abuse, and trauma. Listener discretion is advised.

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at:

theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit:

https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

Faith, power, and politics have become deeply intertwined in our culture, leaving many Christians asking hard questions:

Is this what following Jesus is meant to look like? And how do we stay faithful when the way of Jesus seems so different from the voices claiming to speak for him?

In this episode, Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen welcome Rev. Rob Schenck back to the podcast for an honest conversation about power, discipleship, and the state of American Christianity.

Together, they explore the difference between the way of Jesus and the pursuit of control, the cost of discipleship, and why humility, grief, and love matter more than ever.

If you've felt confused, discouraged, or unsettled by the intersection of faith and politics, we hope this conversation offers both perspective and hope as we consider what it means to follow Jesus in a complicated time.

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at:

theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit:

https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

Is there still more to your story?

It's a question that can feel surprising, especially if you've spent years reflecting on your past, pursuing healing, or engaging your story. Yet in this conversation, Dr. Dan Allender, Rachael Clinton Chen, and Wendell Moss explore how story continues to reveal new insights about who we are, how we've been shaped, and how God is meeting us in the present.

You'll get a glimpse into what story work actually looks like in a Story Workshop or Narrative Focused Trauma Care® training, and why returning to meaningful moments from our lives can open the door to greater compassion, deeper understanding, and unexpected freedom.

Whether you're new to story engagement or have been doing this work for years, you're invited to consider what might still be waiting for you in your story.

Listener Resources:

• Download our free guide, How to Engage Your Story: http://theallendercenter.org/story

• Learn more about Narrative Focused Trauma Care® (NFTC) Training: https://theallendercenter.org/trainings

• Engage your story in a Story Workshop with the Allender Center: http://theallendercenter.org/workshops

Work with an individual trained in NFTC: http://theallendercenter.org/directory

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at:

theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit:

https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

What happens when shame takes root in a story?

And how does contempt become one of the ways we learn to survive it?

Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen explore the complicated relationship between shame and contempt, and why understanding these dynamics matters so deeply for healing and human connection.

Shame can leave us feeling exposed, powerless, defective, or alone. And contempt often emerges as a strategy of protection: through self-criticism, defensiveness, withdrawal, rage, sarcasm, superiority, or humiliation.

You'll hear reflections on:

• why contempt often forms in response to pain and powerlessness

• what trauma responses like fight, flight, freeze, and fawn look like in moments of shame

• how to remain grounded in dignity and belovedness when faced with contempt

This conversation invites us into deeper curiosity, compassion, and discernment — especially in a cultural moment increasingly marked by outrage, dehumanization, and contempt.

If you'd like to explore these themes more deeply, we invite you to join Rachael Clinton Chen for the upcoming live training, The Art of Story Engagement, on June 13. Together, you'll explore more deeply how contempt shapes our stories — and how learning to recognize these dynamics in ourselves and others can open the door to greater wisdom, healing, and care. You can learn more at theallendercenter.org/events

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at:

theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit:

https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

*This episode contains some explicit language. Listener discretion is advised.

Have you ever felt like you were living between worlds?

Maybe you've moved across countries or cultures. Maybe your family story carries immigration, missionary work, military life, trauma, loss, or displacement. Or maybe, even surrounded by familiar people and places, you still carry an ache for belonging — a longing to feel fully known, rooted, and at home.

Today, Dan and Rachael sit down with Esperansita Bejnarowicz, who is a story coach, an NFTC Certified Facilitator with the Allender Center, and the founder of Far From Home.

Together, they explore the hidden grief, loneliness, and longing that can come from living "far from home" — geographically, emotionally, spiritually, and relationally.

Esperansita reflects on the experience of living between identities, cultures, languages, expectations, and communities, and the ways these in-between spaces can leave us carrying forms of grief that often go unseen or unnamed.

The conversation also considers the story of Jesus as someone deeply acquainted with displacement: a child forced to flee, a man who "had no place to lay his head," and someone who understood sorrow, exile, and longing for home.

Through her own story and the stories of women she now serves through Far From Home, Esperansita offers language for the ache of leaving home, the complexity of belonging nowhere and everywhere at once, and the loneliness that can exist even when life appears beautiful from the outside.

Whether you've crossed borders or simply know what it feels like to search for belonging, this conversation offers language, comfort, and hope for the parts of us still longing to find home.

You can learn more about Far From Home at: https://www.womenfarfromhome.org/

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at:

theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit:

https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

How do we live faithfully in a world where stories no longer seem to anchor us to a shared reality?

Returning to the Allender Center Podcast, Pastor James A. White joins Dan and Rachael to wrestle with the confusion, distortion that shape our cultural moments, both past and present.

Together, they explore the idea of "story wars"—the deeply human tendency to create narratives that help us survive, but can also estrange us from truth, one another, and the heart of God.

At the center of the conversation is the resurrection story itself: a story so disruptive and improbable that even Jesus' closest companions struggled to believe it.

And yet, the resurrection is precisely what recalibrates reality. Not because it erases suffering or uncertainty, but because it offers a new way of seeing: that even in places marked by grief, confusion, fear, or loss, hope and transformation are still possible.

This conversation invites us to examine the stories shaping us personally and collectively, and to ask difficult but necessary questions about truth, power, fear, belonging, and hope.

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at:

theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit:

https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

Welcome back to the second half of this powerful conversation with Jay Stringer. Building on the foundation of his book, "Desire,"Jay moves us deeper into one of the most provocative ideas of the conversation:

Sometimes our desires must disrupt and even destroy something in order to make way for something more true.

This isn't destruction for destruction's sake. Iconoclasm is the breaking of false structures, identities, and "provisional selves" that no longer serve us. And as Jay explores, when we don't have wise guides or meaningful rites of passage, that disruption often shows up as self-sabotage—affairs, addictions, burnout, or relational breakdown.

But instead of dismissing those moments as failure, Jay invites us to see them as honest signals—clues pointing back to our story, our unmet longings, and the deeper work our soul is trying to initiate.

Listen in to a conversation that is rich with story and grounded in research as they also explore:

• why community is essential for making sense of our desires (and why we can't do this work alone)

• how to interrogate your desires in a healthy, curious way—not with shame, but with wisdom

• and how our desires are often shaped by forces we don't even realize, yet can be reshaped over time

Desire has the power to both build and break. The question is not whether disruption will come—but whether we'll have the courage, support, and curiosity to let it lead us somewhere good.

Order your copy of Jay's new book, "Desire: The Longings Inside Us and the New Science of How We Love, Heal, and Grow," now at: https://jay-stringer.com/books/

About the Allender Center Podcast:

For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth.

At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology.

Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at: theallendercenter.org/podcast

To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit:

https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]

What if desire isn't something to suppress or fear, but something to honor and steward?

In this two-part conversation, therapist and author Jay Stringer joins Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to explore that very question through the lens of his new book, "Desire: The Longings Inside Us and the New Science of How We Love, Heal, and Grow."

From the very beginning, it was clear this topic couldn't be contained in a single episode. Dan arrived with 16 pages of notes—so settle in for a deep, expansive conversation that unfolds across the next two weeks.

In Part 1, Jay traces the long personal and clinical journey behind Desire, opening up a deeper question beneath the surface of struggle and behavior: how do we learn to want well?

You'll hear:

• Why desire often feels like a "civil war" within us

• How your family of origin can shape what you long for (and what you may have denied)

• The concept of the "provisional self"—and how it can both help and hinder you

• Why some of the patterns you want to escape may actually be clues to deeper healing

Through personal stories, clinical insight, and thoughtful reflection, this conversation invites you to get curious about your desires—not to judge them, but to understand where they come from and where they're leading you.

Be sure to come back next week as Jay re-joins us to explore the disruptive role of desire, the courage it takes to engage it, and how to grow it within the context of community.

In the meantime, you can order your copy of Jay Stringer's newest book, "Desire: The Longings Inside Us and the New Science of How We Love, Heal, and Grow" today: https://jay-stringer.com/books/

About the Allender Center Podcast: For over a decade, the Allender Center Podcast has offered honest, thoughtful conversations about the deep work of healing and transformation. Hosted by Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen, MDiv, this weekly podcast explores the complexities of trauma, abuse recovery, story, relationships, and spiritual formation. Through questions submitted by listeners, stories, interviews, and conversations, we engage the deep places of heartache and hope that are rarely addressed so candidly in our culture today. Join the Allender Center Podcast to uncover meaningful perspectives and support for your path to healing and growth. At the Allender Center, we value thoughtful dialogue across a wide range of voices, stories, and lived experiences. In that spirit, our podcast features guests and hosts who may hold differing perspectives. The perspectives shared on this podcast by guests and hosts reflect their own experiences and viewpoints and do not necessarily represent the views, positions, or endorsements of the Allender Center and/or The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology. Stream each episode, plus find transcripts, additional resources, and more at: theallendercenter.org/podcast To become a supporter of the Allender Center Podcast, visit: https://theallendercenter.org/2025/11/podcast-support/

If you and your organization would like to partner with the Allender Center Podcast, please reach out to Clay Clayton at [email protected]