DARVO—"Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender"—is a powerful manipulation tactic often used to silence those who speak up about harm. In this episode, Dan and Rachael unpack how DARVO shows up not only in personal relationships but also in churches, politics, and other systems where power is protected at all costs.

Together, they explore the deep psychological and spiritual impact of DARVO, particularly in narcissistic relationships or systems. Drawing from Dr. Jennifer Freyd's work on betrayal trauma, they name the disorientation, grief, and exile that often follow when someone dares to speak what is true.

What happens when cruelty masquerades as righteousness? When loyalty is measured by silence? This conversation holds space for those heartbreaks—and offers fierce, grounded hope.

In a culture that often gaslights those who cry out for justice, Dan and Rachael remind us: love, truth, and healing are not just possible—they are sacred acts of resistance. And it's not something we confront alone. With the presence of wise, compassionate others—therapists, pastors, friends, and communities of care—we can learn to trust what is true, reclaim our voice, and boldly participate in the redemptive work of love.

What does it take to cultivate real transformation in a faith community? Not just busier programs or better Bible studies, but real change – mind, body, and soul?

In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen talk with Petra Malekzadeh, Facilitation Development Manager at the Allender Center, about what it looks like to bring story work into the life of a local church.

Drawing on her years of ministry leadership and her training in Narrative Focused Trauma Care®, Petra shares both the challenges and beauty of inviting people to engage their stories as part of discipleship. Listen in to explore:

• Why story work belongs at the heart of spiritual formation

• The importance of leadership buy-in and shared language

• How to navigate resistance and build trust

• What becomes possible when vulnerability is honored

This conversation invites you to imagine a church where story work isn't a side ministry—it's how we grow into the people God is calling us to be.

If you like a good story, we think you'll like this episode.

This week, we're honored to welcome John Kasich—a national leader, lifelong public servant, and gifted storyteller. Throughout his career, he's met thousands of people, and he's here to share just a few of the stories that have stayed with him.

As the 69th Governor of Ohio (2011–2019), Gov. Kasich led with a focus on unity and problem-solving. He rose to national prominence during his 2016 presidential run and continues to serve today through his work with the Kasich Company, his role as a political analyst for NBC and MSNBC, and as the author of several New York Times bestsellers.

His latest book, Heaven Help Us: How Faith Communities Inspire Hope, Strengthen Neighborhoods, and Build the Future, is the heart of this week's conversation.

John shares some of his personal journey—including how the sudden loss of his parents in a car accident became a life-altering moment. He also invites us into the deeply moving stories from his new book—stories of ordinary people in churches, synagogues, and mosques doing extraordinary work to serve their neighbors. These aren't just heartwarming accounts; they're powerful reminders of how faith can drive tangible, lasting change.

This conversation moves quickly—so we encourage you to grab a copy of Heaven Help Us and spend time with these stories yourself.

Join us for a conversation full of hope, challenge, and inspiration—about what's possible when we come together, rooted in faith, to love our neighbors and build a better world.

We're living in a time that's quietly—but profoundly—reshaping our souls.

Formed by a world of speed, efficiency, and endless information, most of us have been trained to seek quick answers, avoid ambiguity, and live with the belief that if we just do X, then Y will happen. It's not our fault—we've been discipled by our cultural moment, where data is king and mystery is often treated with suspicion.

In the process, many of us have come to approach faith with an overdeveloped left brain—craving clarity and control, while growing uncomfortable with the unknown, the mystical, the experiential. And yet… something deeper in us still longs for more.

In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender is joined by psychologist and New York Times Bestselling Author John Eldredge to explore the themes of John's new book, "Experience Jesus. Really." Together, they offer a timely, tender invitation: to recover a life with God that is not only true, but felt—a life rooted in presence, wonder, and communion.

This conversation explores:

• Why our modern world makes it hard to access the presence of God

• The invitation to become an "ordinary mystic"—someone who experiences God from the inside out

• What it means to live as an "amphibious" being, rooted in both the physical and spiritual

• How the presence of Jesus brings refuge, healing, and integration—especially in trauma

• Why this isn't just for the spiritual elite—but for all of us, here and now

John draws from the wisdom of Christian mystics, scripture, and his own story to illuminate what it means to truly walk with Jesus today—in your body, your story, and your real life.

If you've ever found yourself saying, "I want to experience more of God, but I don't know how"—we invite you to listen to this episode.

Listener Resources:

• Be sure to check out John Eldredge's latest book, "Experience Jesus. Really." here: https://wildatheart.org/books/experience-jesus-really

• Revisit the webinar, "The Power of Jesus in Therapeutic Practice" with Dan Allender and John Eldredge, to discover how to authentically integrate best practices with the healing power and loving care of God in your therapy practice: https://online.theallendercenter.org/courses/stories-that-shape-us-the-power-of-jesus-in-therapeutic-practice

Have you ever felt unseen in a place where you were supposed to be known? Or like the more you tried to bring your true self forward, the more you were asked to hide it?

Today on the podcast, author Aimee Byrd joins Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to talk about her new book, Saving Face: Finding My Self, God, and One Another Outside a Defaced Church.

It's a deeply personal and theological reflection on spiritual abuse, identity, and healing—especially in the wake of church systems that no longer reflect the face of Christ.

Together, they explore what it means to reclaim your face—your personhood, your story, your sacred calling. Aimee draws on the rich insight of philosopher Emmanuel Levinas, who wrote that the face is not merely a physical feature, but the place where we encounter both God and one another. To truly see another's face is to take responsibility for their dignity and to recognize Christ's presence there.

Aimee shares her story of how a system that promised reform instead left her mocked, erased, and dehumanized. In that disillusionment, she came to a painful but powerful realization: we don't just need reform. We need resurrection. A death to false forms of power, toxic moralism, and spiritual posturing—and a return to humility, presence, and love.

This conversation offers an honest look at the loneliness of holding onto your God-given identity when others turn away, the courage it takes to seek the face of God in others, and the deep hope that emerges when we begin to see—and be seen—face to face.

Listen to this week's episode about "Saving Face" with Aimee Byrd, and be sure to pick up a copy of her book at: https://aimeebyrd.com/saving-face/

What if your first addiction wasn't to a substance, but to someone's approval?

In part two of our conversation with Ian Morgan Cron, we go deeper into the cycle of addiction, codependency, and the hope of recovery. Whether you're struggling with a relationship, a habit, a performance-driven mindset, or just the weight of trying to "be good," this episode offers a profound invitation: transformation doesn't come from trying harder—it comes from surrender.

You'll hear stories about the power of the 12 Steps, why spiritual awakening matters more than willpower, and how our early longings for love and safety often become tangled in the behaviors we're desperate to change. We talk about ministry, leadership, trauma, boundaries, and what it really means to carry your healing into the lives of others.

This isn't a conversation about fixing people—it's about engaging your own story so you can show up with greater freedom, compassion, and clarity.

Take a breath, take a listen. We hope you'll hear something that helps you come home to yourself.

You can order Ian's new book here: https://ianmorgancron.com/thefix

Please Note: This episode contains some mature language; listener discretion is advised.

Underneath every addiction is a deeper ache—and a surprising path to healing.

Bestselling author, therapist, and Episcopal priest Ian Morgan Cron joins Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to share insights from his newest book, The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between.

Ian invites us to reconsider the Twelve Steps—not just as a recovery tool for addicts, but as a grace-filled path of spiritual awakening for anyone longing for freedom, connection, and intimacy with God.

This conversation is for everyone—not just those who identify as alcoholics or addicts. As Ian says, these steps offer healing to people who struggle with all kinds of attachments and compulsions: workaholism, people-pleasing, tech and porn addiction, codependency, control, food, spending, approval, sports betting… the list goes on. Ian points out that most of us are poly-addicted, caught in multiple patterns that disconnect us from God, ourselves, and each other.

So this isn't about comparing struggles or measuring severity. It's about asking: Do I want to be free? Do I want to live with more honesty, grace, and surrender?

Whether or not you think you "need" the Steps, this conversation is a compassionate, humorous, and deeply spiritual invitation to let go of self-reliance and move toward the healing you were made for.

Listen to Part 1 now, and be sure to come back next week for Part 2. In the meantime, you can order Ian's new book here: https://ianmorgancron.com/thefix

Please Note: This episode contains some mature language; listener discretion is advised.

What happens when a woman names harm in her church community—and instead of support, she's met with silence, suspicion, or even exile?

Too often, the church's response to abuse and inequity reveals a painful truth: that protecting systems has taken precedence over protecting people.

In this powerful and layered conversation, Dr. Andrew J. Bauman joins Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to confront the realities explored in Andrew's new book Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism and Abuse in Christian Communities.

Together, they discuss:

• The cost many women pay for speaking up: isolation, lost community, and spiritual disillusionment

• How even "progressive" churches can harbor subtle patterns of power and control

• The stark data that exposes ongoing gender inequity in ministry

• The personal stories that bring this reality to life—and why representation matters

• What a truly safe and equitable church could look like

This is not just a conversation about what's broken—it's a call to build something better. A church where truth is welcomed, not silenced. Where policies protect the vulnerable. Where power is shared, not hoarded. And where the sacred image of God in women is honored, nurtured, and empowered.

Whether you're a survivor, a leader, or someone wrestling with disillusionment, this episode offers a brave and hopeful vision of what the church can become—if we have the courage to tell the truth and move toward change.

• Order your copy of Dr. Andrew J. Bauman's SAFE CHURCH: How to Guard Against Sexism & Abuse in Christian Communities.
• Listen to the Allender Center Podcast episode: "Connections Between Spiritual and Sexual Abuse"
• Continue to learn with these self-paced online courses from the Allender Center: Spiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course and the Healing the Wounded Heart Online Course

If you've experienced the healing power of engaging your story—through a Story Workshop, Recovery Week, Narrative Focused Trauma Care® (NFTC) training, or a Story Group in your own context—you may have found yourself wondering: Why does this work feel so deeply transformative? What's actually happening here?

In this special episode, we're pulling back the curtain on a groundbreaking, multi-year research project that's beginning to explore those very questions. Dr. Danielle Zurinsky of the Allender Center and Dr. David C. Wang of Fuller Theological Seminary join Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to share what they're discovering so far—and why this moment matters.

This work is part of a broader initiative we're calling the NFTC Model Research & Publication Project. It's an ambitious, long-term effort to clarify, codify, and formally articulate the core framework of Narrative Focused Trauma Care. Grounded in the decades-long work of Dr. Dan Allender, this project is about more than research—it's about building a foundation that allows this healing model to be recognized, trusted, and shared more widely.

In today's conversation, we're letting you in early—before the publications—because we want this process to be rooted in relationship, transparency, and shared vision. Whether you're a practitioner, a past participant, or someone simply curious about the impact of story, you're part of this unfolding journey, too!

And if your own healing has been shaped by story engagement with NFTC, this is a chance to be part of something bigger. You can support the continuation of this growing body of research—fueling everything from the team of scholars and writers to expanded training opportunities and broader recognition in therapeutic, academic, and spiritual spaces.

You can visit theallendercenter.org/give to contribute at any financial level. We are currently fundraising to support the next phase of this project's continuation. Your contribution will help ensure this work continues—so more people, families, and communities can experience the deep transformation that comes through engaging their stories with courage and care.

To learn more about NFTC, visit theallendercenter.org/nftc

Today Dan and Rachael welcome longtime friend and Allender Center Facilitator Adam Young, LCSW, to the podcast for a deeply moving conversation about the unexpected plot twists that shape our stories—and how they can become sacred invitations to connection, healing, and transformation.

Adam, who is a counselor, author, podcast host, and an NFTC Certified Instructor & Facilitator with the Allender Center, joins us to talk about his new book, Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything.

He vulnerably shares about a life-altering moment that brought him to his knees, and ultimately, into deeper communion with God. Together, Adam, Dan, and Rachael explore why revisiting the painful parts of our stories isn't a detour from growth, but the very path that helps us make sense of who we are today and imagine who we're becoming. Whether it's the story of our family of origin, our bodies, our culture, or our relationship with God, Adam offers practical and grace-filled ways to approach our histories with kindness instead of shame.

Join us for today's conversation to consider how you can engage your past with even more courage and kindness—and to discover freedom, healing, and hope along the way.

If you haven't already, don't wait - order your copy of Adam Young's new book, Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything:

https://adamyoungcounseling.com/ or

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1540904695/

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More Resources from the Allender Center:

• Free Guided Story Exercise – Take the next step in engaging your story with a free guided reflection and writing resource: theallendercenter.org/story

• Join a Story Workshop – Go deeper in your healing journey with others at an upcoming Story Workshop: theallendercenter.org/workshops