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Having Conversations about Alcohol and Drug Use - Tools for Your Child's Success
Having Conversations About Alcohol and Drug Use Podcast
0:00 MUSIC
0:07 ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
Hello, I'm Annmarie McMahill and this is a Tools for Your Child’s Success podcast. In this podcast, we'll be talking about how to have conversations with your child about alcohol and drug use.
DR. ANJALI NANDI
It's incredibly important that we have ongoing conversations with our kids. As parents, we play one of the most important roles in developing their decision making skills and in helping them translate their values into action.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL
I'd like to introduce today's guest, Dr. Anjali NandiI.
Dr. Nandi is an organizational consultant in the human service field. She supports criminal justice agencies, hospitals and medical providers and schools find innovative ways of developing their potential through leadership training, program valuations, skill building, staff wellness and implementation of evidence based practices. She designs and delivers training in the fields of behavior change and addictions throughout the country.
In her clinical work as a bilingual psychotherapist, Dr. Nandi has been the program director of state-licensed out-patient drug and alcohol treatment agencies in Colorado, and for over 20 years has provided individual and group therapies to clients, including adolescents with depression, anxiety, addictions and trauma.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
Welcome, Anjali, thanks for being here.
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
So having conversations about alcohol, marijuana and other drugs with our children isn't easy. It can be frightening and leave parents feeling overwhelmed and ill equipped. My hope for today is that we can discuss some of the conversations that we should be having with our kids about alcohol and drugs and get specific ideas of what those conversations really sound like. Sometimes we might want one conversation that's as simple as saying, like, "You don't drink or do drugs, do you?" But we know that it really needs to be a lot of conversations. And all of these conversations are seeking to grow skills within our kids. So to begin today, I think, if you want to discuss for a few minutes, the influence that parents and those in a parenting role have in addressing alcohol and drug use with their kids.
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
Yeah, that's so important, because parents plays such an incredibly important role when, uh, growing and maturing their kids. So it's very easy for us as parents to think that we don't matter, that it's really only social media and friends and school, and whatever exposure our kids are getting from the outside world, that that's really where they're learning. And yes, that is true, they are learning from all of these different places, but as parents, we play one of the most important roles in developing their moral compass, in developing their decision making skills, and in helping them translate their values into action.
So it's incredibly important that we have ongoing conversations with our kids, even though sometimes these conversations are incredibly clumsy. I know from personal experience, my conversations are always clumsy with my kiddo, who's a teenager. Uh, and yet, having frequent and ongoing short conversations, with our kids have such an incredible impact on, uh, the decisions that they make, in terms of, uh, drug use in particular, since that's what we're talking about.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
I think that it's interesting to think about, you know, coming at it with a bit of a plan, because my conversations too, have been rather clumsy, but I think to have a plan and look for those, for those opportunities, is key. And I think to realize as well, that it's not some other family's issue, like we, it's not about good kids or, or bad kids. It really is conversations for every kind of parent and every kind of child. Is that right?
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
Oh, yes, absolutely. And ideally, these conversations are happening, uh, way before they actually need to happen. Meaning, ideally, these conversations are happening, uh, whenever there's a teachable moment. Something shows up on television that's, that sparks this conversation, let's talk with our kids about it. There's something in the media related to, let's say there's a, a DUI incident locally, that makes the news. Let's talk about that. Let's talk, let's use any examples that are just presenting themselves, sort of these teachable moments, let's use those to start these conversations. Because it's, I know this is all so hard to believe, I think as parents, but we have such an influence on our kids because deep down even though our kids will probably not admit this, they don't want to disappoint us.
I mean, occasionally my daughter will even say, you know, "Mom, are you disappointed?" And I'll, I'll say, you know, something like, "Well, you know, I feel really mad about this." And she said to me, and this has happened multiple times, "It's okay if you're mad, I just don't want you to be disappointed with me." So there's something-
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
That's true.
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
... Right? There's something that's really important that we can capitalize about this. But going back to what you said, it is helpful to have some sort of a plan. And by that, I mean, just stems for the conversation, meaning little entry ways into the conversation. So using sort of practiced ways of starting the conversation, and things that we can say to ourselves while the conversation is happening, because these conversations are not easy, and they're triggering for both of us, right? They're triggering for us as parents sometimes, and they're definitely triggering for our kids. So it's really helpful to have a little bit of a plan and to, sort of fundamentally understand, why is it hard, so I can not make it even harder?
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Is there an age when you should start talking? Like, is there an age that's too early, um, for us to really have these conversations with our kids?
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
Yeah, I don't think there is an age that's too early. Because whenever kids are getting exposed to this information is when it's, it's time to be talking about it. So if there's somebody who's smoking in the household, for example, then we have that conversation pretty early on. If, there's alcohol in the house, and parties that are happening, it's helpful to have conversations with our kids, particularly when they're asking or they're interested, or before we're having a celebration, it's helpful for both parents to, kind of have a conversation, if there are two parents, to have a conversation about what the expectations are, so that we as parents or guardians are on the same page.
So it's really helpful to have these conversations, no matter what the age, it's just the kind of conversation changes, depending on the age of the kid. So, you know, if, the child is between, let's say, eight and 12, it sounds like a different conversation, versus having a conversation with a teenager versus having a conversation with, you know, a child who's about to drive. So my, my kiddo is almost 16, and she's about to start driving. And our conversations are now a little bit more different, even though we've been having these conversations for years now.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
I want to spend today focusing on those conversations, because I think that's the biggest obstacle to get, to really get comfortable with as a parent. But I also want to talk a little bit about the risks. So does the age a person start using alcohol or drugs matter? Like we often say, not until you're 21? But can you speak to that a little bit?
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
Absolutely. So I totally geek out on this information. So I apologize in advance if I tell you too much. So the age at which we start using absolutely matters, whether it's drinking or, or using drugs. So, in order to understand why, we have to understand the brain a little bit. And if I oversimplify the brain, our brain is essentially divided into two parts. Uh, we have the, the lizard brain, which technically limbic system, uh, the lizard brain, sort of like our, our gas pedal, this is our impulse, like the center for impulses, risk taking, high emotion, fight, flight, safety, all of that stuff, kind of the reactive part of our brains. We call it the lizard brain.
And then we have the thinking part of our brain, the part of our brain in charge of executive functioning, of decision making, of thinking through the consequences, right, of slowing down. And so that part we call, the wizard, so we have the lizard and the wizard. And interestingly enough, they mature at different times. And by mature, I don't mean that they don't exist before that they absolutely do, it's just their connections are maturing and, and sort of wiring together at different rates. So we tend to wire up our lizard brain, much younger than we wire up our wizard brain.
So our lizard brain is sort of really wired and intact and ready to go, mature around the age of 15. Which means we have a fully functioning gas pedal at the age of 15. But it takes a little longer for our frontal cortex, our wizard brain to fully mature. And our wizard brain fully matures around the age of about 24 to 26.
So we have this period where our brain is maturing at different rates, which means we're prioritizing the maturation of the impulse center of our brain, the gas pedal over them, cognitive sort of slow down, think this through, think through the consequences part of our brain.
So, if we introduce an addition- a substance, right, we introduce alcohol or we introduce drugs, it impacts the development of that brain, such that we prioritize the development of the limbic system, the lizard brain, over the frontal cortex.
So even without drugs and alcohol, our teenagers really have a battle ahead of them, they have a fully functioning gas pedal, but not a fully functioning brake pedal. I don't mean that they're less intelligent in any way, I just mean that their ability to harness the power of problem solving, of thinking through pros and cons, you know, if I do this, what will happen, et cetera, the ability to do that is really, uh, it, it takes several seconds for them to get there, several seconds longer than it takes an adult to get there.
And so, they are more prone to making riskier choices as it is. And then we start to introduce these other substances, which even further impacts the development of the brain, and we end up with sort of this, um, impaired connection between the lizard and the wizard, and, uh, a lesser developed wizard and a more highly developed lizard.
So, um, I know that's sort of a little bit of an oversimplification, but it really matters when you start to introduce substances. So in an ideal world, if somebody were to start using, I would say, let's delay it until 24 or 25, right, so that the frontal cortex has the best shot.
Now I'm not saying that the brain doesn't develop all our lives. I mean, we have a very malleable brain, there's this term called neuroplasticity or malleability of the brain, which really means that we can sort of develop and grow up, continue to grow our brains and work on them all the way until we die. But this time period is really essential. And so in order to keep our, our kids safe, in order to keep our teens safe, we really try and delay the onset of the use of alcohol or other drugs to keep their brains as healthy and supported as possible.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
I love the analogy of a car with a good accelerator and a weak brake. I think that makes a lot of sense to mewhen I'm thinking about the, the structure of their brains, and answers a lot of questions that I have just generally in parenting, about impulse control. So when we're having like, conversations with our kids, it's, it really can happen just about any time and anywhere. They don't have to be long and serious. I, I remember my parents having, you know, a bit of a talk.
I think the talk I had with me was, you know, "You're not using, are you?" And I was like, "No, I'm not." And they were like, "Okay, good." Um, and so I, I think that when a parent gets started, just what are some things that they need to keep in mind, um, as you start having conversations? Like for me, one of the things I remember is, I need to stop asking questions that have a yes or no answer. Are there any other just tips before we, we even get started?
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
Great. Yes. And great learning, Annmarie, right, to, to really avoid those yes, no questions. Because it's a bit of a setup to ask our kids, "You're not using, are you?" Because it's super tough for the kids to say, "Actually, yes, I am." If I phrase it that way. So I need to, to get away from that. And the reason as a parent, I would ask it that way, is because I really want to hear the no answer, right? "Are you, you're not using, are you?" "No." "Phew, my job here is done." Right? That's, as a parent, sometimes that's how I wish the conversation would go. But that's not how it goes. And just to kind of reiterate this point, ideally, these conversations happen regularly on an ongoing basis so they, they don't feel like “the talk”, right? It doesn't feel like, oh my gosh. Like sometimes I'll say, uh, to my daughter, can we chat about something? And immediately she'll say, "Oh, my gosh, am I in trouble?" That's her first response, right?
Whereas, if I slide it in, right, just as a matter of course, she tells me all kinds of things. And we have some pretty heavy duty conversations if I'm just q- you know, sneakily sliding it into whatever is going on in the moment. I have to admit a lot of these conversations are in the car because I have, you know, she's captive there with me. We're not staring at each other, we're kind of looking forward. So even if she has an embarrassed face on or she's rolling her eyes or whatever she's doing, right, we, we're not sort of confronting or right in front of each other, which is really helpful, and we have no place to go. I mean, we're both buckled in, here we go.
So, a lot of these conversations for me happen in the car, uh, however, ideally, they happen on an ongoing basis. And ideally, they're precipitated by something happening in our natural world, right? There's some teachable moment that picks up, or, if you do want to have sort of a serious sit down planned conversation with your child, there are several ways to kind of start that conversation.
And ideally, particularly if they're between the ages of eight and 12, ideally, it starts with some open questions just to find out what they know. So the question might sound like, you know, "There's so much information out there about alcohol and drugs, and you probably know so much more than I do, because you're probably getting so much stuff from school. Tell me what you do know about alcohol and drugs." Or let's say you're just worried about drugs. "Tell me what you do know about drug use." And just start there. Ask the question and wait.
Just be quiet and listen. And don't take their first answer as the answer. So you could follow up with, and what else is there? Or, right, tell me more, or any of those kinds of questions that just gather more info. Because particularly our teens, maybe not so much the eight to 12. But, when they get into their teenage years, their answers tend to be something like, "Well, not much. I don't know. I don't know what you're asking. That's too broad of a question." Right? Those sometimes can be the answers.
So we have to play a little bit with the style of questioning, and you all know your kids best. So the caution I would say is, avoid closed questions, meaning, yes, no questions, and really go for the open question. Be comfortable with the silence and the discomfort and work hard to keep yourself, you as the parent, me as the parent, work hard to keep myself in check. So that I'm not having a reaction.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
Let's talk about establishing rules, because that seems to be an important conversation for parents to have. So do parents create alcohol and drug use rules? Or do they get their child's input? So you know, what are, what are important things that parents need to remember here?
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
Yeah, both. So, uh, our kids absolutely need clarity around structure and boundaries. Being clear about boundaries and structure helps reduce anxiety, it helps the kid know what they can push up against, that there is something to push up against. And it helps them know what the lines are, which is really helpful. Now it is our child's job to push up against those boundaries. So please don't think that when you set a boundary, your kid is just going to obey. In fact, if they just obey, be worried, something else is going on.
So, they are going to push up against the boundaries. And our job when they push up against it is to be consistent and say, "I hear you, and this is still the boundary." Right?
Now, if you recognize that your boundary was a bit much, like my daughter went out for one of her first parties, I set an 11:00pm curfew, all right. 11:00pm. And she said, "Mom, there's no way, right? I need to, I have to get a ride back, et cetera. You're not picking me up." Because they were all organizing rides. And she said, "How can I tell people that I need to be home at 11:00pm when they're giving me the ride and their curfew was 1:00am?" And I said "Well then in that case, I'm coming to pick you up, right? This is the boundary." And so she said, "Okay." And I went and picked her up and you know, brought her back, and then in retrospect realized that it would probably have been a good negotiation point for me to have given her a little bit more time.
So if that is the case, right, when we set boundaries, have that conversation out loud with your child about why you are changing the boundary. Don't just change it and not talk to them, because then they will think that your boundaries don't matter. So if you set a boundary A, and they push up against it, and you recognize that it should be B, don't just, you know, scoot to B, without saying anything. Make sure they understand what are the values that are driving that.
So back to your original question, Annmarie, it's both. We do set negotiables and non-negotiables, right? We're clear about what the non-negotiable is, they get input in terms of the negotiables. So an example is, do not get in the car, if the driver is intoxicated or high, right? That is a non-negotiable. The negotiable is, you know, calling me, calling your dad, calling an Uber, right? We can discuss that, we can discuss what that looks like, it's even negotiable that you don't tell me who the friend is who's intoxicated, or, or high, maybe, right? So we can negotiate around those things, but we are clear about what the non-negotiables are. So as parents, we need to be clear about that. And then, you know, help ... Get, get the kid's input into what we can negotiate about.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
So you mentioned curfew, which would be negotiable, and the not riding in a car, what are some other examples of rules that parents could have? Reasonable rules that parents could have.
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
So these are so dependent on the family and...
View all episodes
By Center for Health and Safety CultureHaving Conversations About Alcohol and Drug Use Podcast
0:00 MUSIC
0:07 ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
Hello, I'm Annmarie McMahill and this is a Tools for Your Child’s Success podcast. In this podcast, we'll be talking about how to have conversations with your child about alcohol and drug use.
DR. ANJALI NANDI
It's incredibly important that we have ongoing conversations with our kids. As parents, we play one of the most important roles in developing their decision making skills and in helping them translate their values into action.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL
I'd like to introduce today's guest, Dr. Anjali NandiI.
Dr. Nandi is an organizational consultant in the human service field. She supports criminal justice agencies, hospitals and medical providers and schools find innovative ways of developing their potential through leadership training, program valuations, skill building, staff wellness and implementation of evidence based practices. She designs and delivers training in the fields of behavior change and addictions throughout the country.
In her clinical work as a bilingual psychotherapist, Dr. Nandi has been the program director of state-licensed out-patient drug and alcohol treatment agencies in Colorado, and for over 20 years has provided individual and group therapies to clients, including adolescents with depression, anxiety, addictions and trauma.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
Welcome, Anjali, thanks for being here.
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
So having conversations about alcohol, marijuana and other drugs with our children isn't easy. It can be frightening and leave parents feeling overwhelmed and ill equipped. My hope for today is that we can discuss some of the conversations that we should be having with our kids about alcohol and drugs and get specific ideas of what those conversations really sound like. Sometimes we might want one conversation that's as simple as saying, like, "You don't drink or do drugs, do you?" But we know that it really needs to be a lot of conversations. And all of these conversations are seeking to grow skills within our kids. So to begin today, I think, if you want to discuss for a few minutes, the influence that parents and those in a parenting role have in addressing alcohol and drug use with their kids.
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
Yeah, that's so important, because parents plays such an incredibly important role when, uh, growing and maturing their kids. So it's very easy for us as parents to think that we don't matter, that it's really only social media and friends and school, and whatever exposure our kids are getting from the outside world, that that's really where they're learning. And yes, that is true, they are learning from all of these different places, but as parents, we play one of the most important roles in developing their moral compass, in developing their decision making skills, and in helping them translate their values into action.
So it's incredibly important that we have ongoing conversations with our kids, even though sometimes these conversations are incredibly clumsy. I know from personal experience, my conversations are always clumsy with my kiddo, who's a teenager. Uh, and yet, having frequent and ongoing short conversations, with our kids have such an incredible impact on, uh, the decisions that they make, in terms of, uh, drug use in particular, since that's what we're talking about.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
I think that it's interesting to think about, you know, coming at it with a bit of a plan, because my conversations too, have been rather clumsy, but I think to have a plan and look for those, for those opportunities, is key. And I think to realize as well, that it's not some other family's issue, like we, it's not about good kids or, or bad kids. It really is conversations for every kind of parent and every kind of child. Is that right?
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
Oh, yes, absolutely. And ideally, these conversations are happening, uh, way before they actually need to happen. Meaning, ideally, these conversations are happening, uh, whenever there's a teachable moment. Something shows up on television that's, that sparks this conversation, let's talk with our kids about it. There's something in the media related to, let's say there's a, a DUI incident locally, that makes the news. Let's talk about that. Let's talk, let's use any examples that are just presenting themselves, sort of these teachable moments, let's use those to start these conversations. Because it's, I know this is all so hard to believe, I think as parents, but we have such an influence on our kids because deep down even though our kids will probably not admit this, they don't want to disappoint us.
I mean, occasionally my daughter will even say, you know, "Mom, are you disappointed?" And I'll, I'll say, you know, something like, "Well, you know, I feel really mad about this." And she said to me, and this has happened multiple times, "It's okay if you're mad, I just don't want you to be disappointed with me." So there's something-
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
That's true.
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
... Right? There's something that's really important that we can capitalize about this. But going back to what you said, it is helpful to have some sort of a plan. And by that, I mean, just stems for the conversation, meaning little entry ways into the conversation. So using sort of practiced ways of starting the conversation, and things that we can say to ourselves while the conversation is happening, because these conversations are not easy, and they're triggering for both of us, right? They're triggering for us as parents sometimes, and they're definitely triggering for our kids. So it's really helpful to have a little bit of a plan and to, sort of fundamentally understand, why is it hard, so I can not make it even harder?
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Is there an age when you should start talking? Like, is there an age that's too early, um, for us to really have these conversations with our kids?
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
Yeah, I don't think there is an age that's too early. Because whenever kids are getting exposed to this information is when it's, it's time to be talking about it. So if there's somebody who's smoking in the household, for example, then we have that conversation pretty early on. If, there's alcohol in the house, and parties that are happening, it's helpful to have conversations with our kids, particularly when they're asking or they're interested, or before we're having a celebration, it's helpful for both parents to, kind of have a conversation, if there are two parents, to have a conversation about what the expectations are, so that we as parents or guardians are on the same page.
So it's really helpful to have these conversations, no matter what the age, it's just the kind of conversation changes, depending on the age of the kid. So, you know, if, the child is between, let's say, eight and 12, it sounds like a different conversation, versus having a conversation with a teenager versus having a conversation with, you know, a child who's about to drive. So my, my kiddo is almost 16, and she's about to start driving. And our conversations are now a little bit more different, even though we've been having these conversations for years now.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
I want to spend today focusing on those conversations, because I think that's the biggest obstacle to get, to really get comfortable with as a parent. But I also want to talk a little bit about the risks. So does the age a person start using alcohol or drugs matter? Like we often say, not until you're 21? But can you speak to that a little bit?
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
Absolutely. So I totally geek out on this information. So I apologize in advance if I tell you too much. So the age at which we start using absolutely matters, whether it's drinking or, or using drugs. So, in order to understand why, we have to understand the brain a little bit. And if I oversimplify the brain, our brain is essentially divided into two parts. Uh, we have the, the lizard brain, which technically limbic system, uh, the lizard brain, sort of like our, our gas pedal, this is our impulse, like the center for impulses, risk taking, high emotion, fight, flight, safety, all of that stuff, kind of the reactive part of our brains. We call it the lizard brain.
And then we have the thinking part of our brain, the part of our brain in charge of executive functioning, of decision making, of thinking through the consequences, right, of slowing down. And so that part we call, the wizard, so we have the lizard and the wizard. And interestingly enough, they mature at different times. And by mature, I don't mean that they don't exist before that they absolutely do, it's just their connections are maturing and, and sort of wiring together at different rates. So we tend to wire up our lizard brain, much younger than we wire up our wizard brain.
So our lizard brain is sort of really wired and intact and ready to go, mature around the age of 15. Which means we have a fully functioning gas pedal at the age of 15. But it takes a little longer for our frontal cortex, our wizard brain to fully mature. And our wizard brain fully matures around the age of about 24 to 26.
So we have this period where our brain is maturing at different rates, which means we're prioritizing the maturation of the impulse center of our brain, the gas pedal over them, cognitive sort of slow down, think this through, think through the consequences part of our brain.
So, if we introduce an addition- a substance, right, we introduce alcohol or we introduce drugs, it impacts the development of that brain, such that we prioritize the development of the limbic system, the lizard brain, over the frontal cortex.
So even without drugs and alcohol, our teenagers really have a battle ahead of them, they have a fully functioning gas pedal, but not a fully functioning brake pedal. I don't mean that they're less intelligent in any way, I just mean that their ability to harness the power of problem solving, of thinking through pros and cons, you know, if I do this, what will happen, et cetera, the ability to do that is really, uh, it, it takes several seconds for them to get there, several seconds longer than it takes an adult to get there.
And so, they are more prone to making riskier choices as it is. And then we start to introduce these other substances, which even further impacts the development of the brain, and we end up with sort of this, um, impaired connection between the lizard and the wizard, and, uh, a lesser developed wizard and a more highly developed lizard.
So, um, I know that's sort of a little bit of an oversimplification, but it really matters when you start to introduce substances. So in an ideal world, if somebody were to start using, I would say, let's delay it until 24 or 25, right, so that the frontal cortex has the best shot.
Now I'm not saying that the brain doesn't develop all our lives. I mean, we have a very malleable brain, there's this term called neuroplasticity or malleability of the brain, which really means that we can sort of develop and grow up, continue to grow our brains and work on them all the way until we die. But this time period is really essential. And so in order to keep our, our kids safe, in order to keep our teens safe, we really try and delay the onset of the use of alcohol or other drugs to keep their brains as healthy and supported as possible.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
I love the analogy of a car with a good accelerator and a weak brake. I think that makes a lot of sense to mewhen I'm thinking about the, the structure of their brains, and answers a lot of questions that I have just generally in parenting, about impulse control. So when we're having like, conversations with our kids, it's, it really can happen just about any time and anywhere. They don't have to be long and serious. I, I remember my parents having, you know, a bit of a talk.
I think the talk I had with me was, you know, "You're not using, are you?" And I was like, "No, I'm not." And they were like, "Okay, good." Um, and so I, I think that when a parent gets started, just what are some things that they need to keep in mind, um, as you start having conversations? Like for me, one of the things I remember is, I need to stop asking questions that have a yes or no answer. Are there any other just tips before we, we even get started?
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
Great. Yes. And great learning, Annmarie, right, to, to really avoid those yes, no questions. Because it's a bit of a setup to ask our kids, "You're not using, are you?" Because it's super tough for the kids to say, "Actually, yes, I am." If I phrase it that way. So I need to, to get away from that. And the reason as a parent, I would ask it that way, is because I really want to hear the no answer, right? "Are you, you're not using, are you?" "No." "Phew, my job here is done." Right? That's, as a parent, sometimes that's how I wish the conversation would go. But that's not how it goes. And just to kind of reiterate this point, ideally, these conversations happen regularly on an ongoing basis so they, they don't feel like “the talk”, right? It doesn't feel like, oh my gosh. Like sometimes I'll say, uh, to my daughter, can we chat about something? And immediately she'll say, "Oh, my gosh, am I in trouble?" That's her first response, right?
Whereas, if I slide it in, right, just as a matter of course, she tells me all kinds of things. And we have some pretty heavy duty conversations if I'm just q- you know, sneakily sliding it into whatever is going on in the moment. I have to admit a lot of these conversations are in the car because I have, you know, she's captive there with me. We're not staring at each other, we're kind of looking forward. So even if she has an embarrassed face on or she's rolling her eyes or whatever she's doing, right, we, we're not sort of confronting or right in front of each other, which is really helpful, and we have no place to go. I mean, we're both buckled in, here we go.
So, a lot of these conversations for me happen in the car, uh, however, ideally, they happen on an ongoing basis. And ideally, they're precipitated by something happening in our natural world, right? There's some teachable moment that picks up, or, if you do want to have sort of a serious sit down planned conversation with your child, there are several ways to kind of start that conversation.
And ideally, particularly if they're between the ages of eight and 12, ideally, it starts with some open questions just to find out what they know. So the question might sound like, you know, "There's so much information out there about alcohol and drugs, and you probably know so much more than I do, because you're probably getting so much stuff from school. Tell me what you do know about alcohol and drugs." Or let's say you're just worried about drugs. "Tell me what you do know about drug use." And just start there. Ask the question and wait.
Just be quiet and listen. And don't take their first answer as the answer. So you could follow up with, and what else is there? Or, right, tell me more, or any of those kinds of questions that just gather more info. Because particularly our teens, maybe not so much the eight to 12. But, when they get into their teenage years, their answers tend to be something like, "Well, not much. I don't know. I don't know what you're asking. That's too broad of a question." Right? Those sometimes can be the answers.
So we have to play a little bit with the style of questioning, and you all know your kids best. So the caution I would say is, avoid closed questions, meaning, yes, no questions, and really go for the open question. Be comfortable with the silence and the discomfort and work hard to keep yourself, you as the parent, me as the parent, work hard to keep myself in check. So that I'm not having a reaction.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
Let's talk about establishing rules, because that seems to be an important conversation for parents to have. So do parents create alcohol and drug use rules? Or do they get their child's input? So you know, what are, what are important things that parents need to remember here?
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
Yeah, both. So, uh, our kids absolutely need clarity around structure and boundaries. Being clear about boundaries and structure helps reduce anxiety, it helps the kid know what they can push up against, that there is something to push up against. And it helps them know what the lines are, which is really helpful. Now it is our child's job to push up against those boundaries. So please don't think that when you set a boundary, your kid is just going to obey. In fact, if they just obey, be worried, something else is going on.
So, they are going to push up against the boundaries. And our job when they push up against it is to be consistent and say, "I hear you, and this is still the boundary." Right?
Now, if you recognize that your boundary was a bit much, like my daughter went out for one of her first parties, I set an 11:00pm curfew, all right. 11:00pm. And she said, "Mom, there's no way, right? I need to, I have to get a ride back, et cetera. You're not picking me up." Because they were all organizing rides. And she said, "How can I tell people that I need to be home at 11:00pm when they're giving me the ride and their curfew was 1:00am?" And I said "Well then in that case, I'm coming to pick you up, right? This is the boundary." And so she said, "Okay." And I went and picked her up and you know, brought her back, and then in retrospect realized that it would probably have been a good negotiation point for me to have given her a little bit more time.
So if that is the case, right, when we set boundaries, have that conversation out loud with your child about why you are changing the boundary. Don't just change it and not talk to them, because then they will think that your boundaries don't matter. So if you set a boundary A, and they push up against it, and you recognize that it should be B, don't just, you know, scoot to B, without saying anything. Make sure they understand what are the values that are driving that.
So back to your original question, Annmarie, it's both. We do set negotiables and non-negotiables, right? We're clear about what the non-negotiable is, they get input in terms of the negotiables. So an example is, do not get in the car, if the driver is intoxicated or high, right? That is a non-negotiable. The negotiable is, you know, calling me, calling your dad, calling an Uber, right? We can discuss that, we can discuss what that looks like, it's even negotiable that you don't tell me who the friend is who's intoxicated, or, or high, maybe, right? So we can negotiate around those things, but we are clear about what the non-negotiables are. So as parents, we need to be clear about that. And then, you know, help ... Get, get the kid's input into what we can negotiate about.
ANNMARIE MCMAHILL:
So you mentioned curfew, which would be negotiable, and the not riding in a car, what are some other examples of rules that parents could have? Reasonable rules that parents could have.
DR. ANJALI NANDI:
So these are so dependent on the family and...