Healing People, Not Patients

By Dr. Jonathan Weinkle, Doctor Podcast NetworkMedicine Health & Fitness Religion & Spirituality Education Self-Improvement Spirituality

Healing People, Not Patients episodes

September 30How Not to Lose Faith in Medicine | Ep23
This episode is sponsored by NURP
NURP helps busy physicians grow their wealth through AI-powered algorithmic trading designed for demanding careers. No day trading, no guesswork, and no constant market watching required.
Ready to put your money to work? Visit start.nurp.com/doctors to learn more.
Trading involves risk, and results may vary. This is not financial advice.
—--------------------------
What happens when we expect medicine to give us certainty in a world that can never guarantee it?
In this solo episode of Healing People, Not Patients, Dr. Jonathan Weinkle draws on Ecclesiastes, Jewish thought, literature, and clinical experience, to examine why medicine can create its own crises of faith when patients and clinicians mistake risk reduction for promises of good health.
The conversation explores the limits of prevention, the danger of turning medical recommendations into moral judgments, and how unexpected outcomes can cause patients to lose trust in medicine. From vaccines and chronic illness to treatment side effects and unanswered suffering, the episode challenges healthcare professionals to embrace humility while continuing to make meaningful differences in patients’ lives.
Ultimately, medicine is not about immortality. It is about gently nudging life toward better outcomes while recognizing uncertainty. The episode also highlights one of the most powerful tools available to healing professionals: human connection. Being present, building relationships, and helping patients reconnect with their communities may be just as important as the treatments we prescribe.
Top 3 Takeaways
Medicine was never about certainty or immortality: Risk factors change odds; they do not guarantee outcomes. Over promising turns recommendations into moral tests and breeds the same loss of faith Acher experienced when the promised long life failed to appear.
Hevel is breath fragile, shallow, and all we have: The task is not to eliminate the evil days but to lengthen and enrich the time while they “come not,” gently, without blowing the breath away through over treatment or isolation.
Presence and relationship are powerful medicine. “Two are better than one.” Strong, meaningful connections including with clinicians who simply show up may matter more for flourishing than many of the interventions we prescribe. Community is even better.
Episode Mentioned
Episode 11: Dwelling in the 'Who Knows' - Chaplaincy in Crisis

About The Show
Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship.
"Our theme song, 'Room for the Soul,' is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul."

About the Host:
Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being.
He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients.
🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com
🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a
📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen
📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle
The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
25 min
September 15The Imposter Phenomenon: Reframing Self-Doubt as Humility in Medicine | Ep22
This episode is sponsored by NURP
NURP helps busy physicians grow their wealth through AI-powered algorithmic trading designed for demanding careers. No day trading, no guesswork, and no constant market watching required.
Ready to put your money to work? Visit start.nurp.com/doctors to learn more.
Trading involves risk, and results may vary. This is not financial advice.
—--------------------------
What if the relentless self-doubt felt by high-achieving physicians is not a personal pathology or “syndrome,” but a near-universal signal of humility in a demanding profession that constantly pushes people to the edge of their competence?
In this episode, Dr. Jonathan Weinkle speaks with Dr. Phifer Nicholson, a UCLA surgery resident, Duke School of Medicine graduate, and Theology, Medicine, and Culture Initiative alum. With colleagues Drs. Mary Brandt and Holland Kaplan, Nicholson co-authored a paper arguing that medicalizing the imposter phenomenon pathologizes an experience reported by 70–80 percent of trainees and attendings, highest of all in surgery, and shifts responsibility onto individuals rather than toxic systems.
They reframe these feelings as a potentially virtuous acknowledgment of human limits, especially acute for women, physicians of color, and those lower in medical hierarchies. Drawing on mentor stories, morbidity-and-mortality culture, and Jewish concepts of teshuvah, Moses, and Zusha of Hanipol, the conversation shows how naming doubt honestly, in community, can replace isolation with growth and safer care for everyone.
Top 3 Takeaways
Normalize, Don’t Pathologize: Self-doubt is near-universal among competent high achievers working at the edge of their knowledge. Calling it a “syndrome” medicalizes a human response and shifts responsibility onto the individual instead of the culture.
Humility Lives Between Arrogance and Humiliation: True humility recognizes both strengths and limits. Imposter feelings often signal healthy moral intuition that one is reaching the boundary of current skill, an asset, not a defect, when held in community.
Vulnerability Creates Safer Systems: Senior faculty who candidly share near-misses, lawsuits, and doubts normalize the experience. This modeling, plus honest evaluation of actual competence, reduces isolation and improves patient safety

About the Show:
Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship.
"Our theme song, 'Room for the Soul,' is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul."

About the Guest:
Dr. Phifer Nicholson is a general surgery resident at UCLA and a graduate of Duke University School of Medicine and its Theology, Medicine, and Culture Initiative. With Drs. Mary Brandt and Holland Kaplan he co-authored a paper in the Journal of Pediatric Surgery reframing imposter syndrome as a near-universal phenomenon rather than a pathology, advocating for humility, community, and systemic change in surgical training.

About the Host:
Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being.
He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients.
🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com
🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a
📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen
📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle
The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
53 min
September 01The Danger of “Moving On” : Judith Helfand on Disenfranchised Grief in a Post-Pandemic World | Ep21
This episode is sponsored by NURP
NURP helps busy physicians grow their wealth through AI-powered algorithmic trading designed for demanding careers. No day trading, no guesswork, and no constant market watching required.
Ready to put your money to work? Visit start.nurp.com/doctors to learn more.
Trading involves risk, and results may vary. This is not financial advice.
—--------------------------
What happens when a young woman discovers she is a “DES daughter,” develops a rare cancer, loses the ability to carry a biological child, and decides to put her own life and family under the camera? And what does it mean when, decades later, a hidden photograph and a COVID-era Zoom shiva unlock a century-old family silence around a 12-year-old girl who died in the 1918 influenza pandemic?
In this episode of Healing People, Not Patients, Dr. Jonathan Weinkle sits down with Judith (“Judy”) Helfand, the filmmaker behind the Peabody Award-winning A Healthy Baby Girl, the “toxic comedy” Blue Vinyl, Love & Stuff, and the in-progress multiformat project Good Mourning Ethel. Helfand traces how her mother’s use of diethylstilbestrol (DES), the subsequent diagnosis of clear cell adenocarcinoma, radical surgery, and the fraught mother-daughter relationship became both a personal crisis and the foundation of her documentary practice. She describes volunteering for a DES film only to become its subject, the decision to film her own recovery and family dynamics, and the rituals (kaddish, mikvah, invented grief ceremonies) she created when conventional mourning structures did not fit the loss of fertility and “unborn children.”
The conversation then pivots to her current work: recovering the almost-erased memory of her aunt Ethel, who died at age 12 in the 1918 flu epidemic in their New York tenement. Helfand explores how quarantine, the absence of shiva, wartime and later historical silences, and a grandmother’s protective isolation turned private catastrophe into “Bubbe’s meshugas.” She connects that unresolved grief to patterns still visible in families after COVID, and argues that personal, intimate storytelling is one of the few ways humans can hold large-scale historical trauma without reducing it to statistics.
Throughout, Helfand and Weinkle discuss the ethics of the camera in the sickroom, the difference between being “visited with” and being processed, the power of a clinician simply allowing themselves to be sad with a patient, and the Reconstructionist Jewish insight that every ritual was once new. The episode offers clinicians a vivid model of how personal narrative, ritual creativity, and the refusal to let grief be minimized can deepen presence and care.
Top 3 Takeaways
Presence Before Protocols (and Permission to Be Sad): Patients remember the clinician who can look at loss (empty pelvis, missing organs, erased family members) and say “this is not normal; I’m angry and sad with you” rather than offering the language of “normal tissue.” Small acts of shared emotion and attentiveness make medical care more potent.

Personal Story as Antidote to Statistical Forgetting: One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic. The only way to reclaim the millions (whether DES-exposed daughters, 1918 flu victims, or COVID losses) is for individuals to remember and tell one specific story fully. Intimate documentary and family storytelling keep the human scale alive.

It’s Never Too Late to Turn a Bad Mourning Good: Unresolved grief does not have an expiration date. Creating new or adapted rituals, recovering erased names and photographs, and giving public voice to private silences can still transform isolation into blessing, even a century later, and offers a model for families still navigating COVID-era incomplete mourning.

About the Show
Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship.
"Our theme song, 'Room for the Soul,' is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul."

About the Guest
Judith Helfand is a Peabody Award-winning documentary filmmaker, organizer, and educator known for her open hearted, radically transparent approach to nonfiction storytelling. Her films include the autobiographical A Healthy Baby Girl (1997, POV/Sundance) about her DES exposure, clear-cell adenocarcinoma, hysterectomy, and family dynamics; the Sundance Award-winning “toxic comedy” Blue Vinyl (2002, HBO) on polyvinyl chloride; Love & Stuff (2022, POV); and the forthcoming multiformat project Good Mourning Ethel, which recovers the story of her aunt who died in the 1918 influenza pandemic and the multigenerational silence that followed. She co-founded Working Films and Chicken & Egg Pictures and is a member of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.
Connect with Judith
https://www.documentaries.org/films/good-mourning-ethel/ to see the trailer and contribute to making the film
https://www.bluevinyl.org/
https://chickeneggfilms.org/
https://workingfilms.org/
https://www.pbs.org/pov/films/ahealthybabygirl/
About the Host
Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being.
He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients.
🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com
🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a
📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen
📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle
The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
1 hr 28 min
August 18Whole Person Care in Rheumatology: Listening Beyond the Labs | Ep20
This episode is sponsored by NURP
NURP helps busy physicians grow their wealth through AI-powered algorithmic trading designed for demanding careers. No day trading, no guesswork, and no constant market watching required.
Ready to put your money to work? Visit start.nurp.com/doctors to learn more.
Trading involves risk, and results may vary. This is not financial advice.
_______________________________
In this episode of Healing People, Not Patients, Dr. Jonathan Weinkle interviews board-certified rheumatologist Dr. Brittany Panico about shifting from “survival mode” and checklist-driven care to a more patient-centered approach. Brittany shares how listening deeply, observing body language, and building relationships transformed her practice.
They discuss rheumatology’s diagnostic challenges, including patients who don’t fit formal criteria, gout with normal uric acid, the value of serial labs, and collaboration across specialties. Brittany also explains how osteopathic training and systems thinking shaped her approach to medicine and leadership.

Top 3 Takeaways
Believe the narrative first. Objective findings matter, but patients who have been disbelieved often hide or minimize symptoms. Slowing down, asking “tell me more,” and decoding their language (pain vs. stiffness, flare vs. sleep deprivation) builds trust and often reveals the real problem.
Criteria are research tools, not bedside walls. Many patients fall into diagnostic gaps. Persistence, serial testing, early empiric treatment within safe limits, and coaching patients to advocate for themselves can close those gaps without waiting for textbook presentations.
Relationship and follow-through scale. Whether in a 15-minute check-in or leading a team, the habits of presence, clear communication of goals, and rapid feedback loops (“call them in two weeks, not three months”) turn isolated visits into ongoing care.
About the Show

Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship.
"Our theme song, 'Room for the Soul,' is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul."

About the Guest
Dr. Brittany Panico is a board-certified rheumatologist. She completed residency and fellowship in Chicago and has practiced academic and private-practice rheumatology in Phoenix, caring for the full spectrum of inpatient and outpatient autoimmune and musculoskeletal disease. She is a DO whose training emphasized problem based learning, osteopathic manipulative medicine, and systems thinking. She is active on social media advocating for whole-person, narrative-centered care.
Connect with the Guest
Website: drbrittanypenico.com
About the Host:
Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being.
He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients.
🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com
🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a
📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen
📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle
The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
59 min
August 04Bikur Cholim: Visiting the Sick, Community Care & Patient-Centered Support | EP19
This episode is sponsored by NURP
NURP helps busy physicians grow their wealth through AI-powered algorithmic trading designed for demanding careers. No day trading, no guesswork, and no constant market watching required.
Ready to put your money to work? Visit start.nurp.com/doctors to learn more.
Trading involves risk, and results may vary. This is not financial advice.
—--------------------------
What does true bikur cholim, visiting the sick, look like beyond a quick hospital drop-in, and how can ordinary people (and clinicians) turn personal hardship into structured, compassionate support?
In this episode of Healing People, Not Patients, Dr. Jonathan Weinkle welcomes Dr. Nina Butler, holder of doctorates in special education and educational administration/policy, former school principal, nonprofit veteran, and the driving force behind Bikur Cholim of Pittsburgh (also known as Friends of Jewish Patients). Nina shares how her family’s multi-generational tradition of hosting transplant patients, combined with two decades of intensive hospital experience with her late son Mikey (who lived with cystic fibrosis and later received a double lung transplant), led her to formalize a 501(c)(3) volunteer network that now supports hundreds of patients from around the block and around the world.
They discuss pre-arrival Zoom intakes that turn terror into the feeling of having family nearby; coordinating meals, grocery runs, “Person of the Day” helpers, Shabbat cabinets, accommodations, and highly individualized needs (down to white vs. dark meat or gluten-free preferences) via tools like Lots of Helping Hands and WhatsApp; advocacy with hospital systems on kosher (and now interfaith) dietary and spiritual needs; collaboration with the Muslim community at Children’s Hospital; and the transferable model of grassroots community infrastructure. Nina also offers concrete, low-tech practices clinicians can use to build trust and presence before any clinical agenda, language access, team transparency, primary nursing continuity, open-ended attentiveness to what this patient actually needs, and partnership with community support systems that extend far beyond the hospital stay.
The conversation highlights patient-centered care in its fullest sense: ordinary people acting in extraordinary ways, and the power of connection against isolation and loneliness.
Top 3 Takeaways:
Presence Before Protocols: Clinicians can create a sense of being “visited with” rather than processed by starting with connection, clear language access, explaining the care team, asking what the patient actually needs (not just delivering a list), and recognizing that small acts of presence (or coordinating community presence) make medical care more potent.

Coordinated, Patient-Directed Support Beats Generic Kindness: Well-meaning offers of “anything you need,” flowers, and duplicate soups often miss the mark. Structured systems (Person of the Day, detailed meal coordination, pre-arrival orientation) let loved ones and volunteers meet real, nuanced needs while preserving privacy and dignity.

Community Infrastructure Is Transferable: Geographic and religious cohesion helps, but the model, WhatsApp/listserv coordination, one clear intake point, shared tools like Lots of Helping Hands, and willingness to partner across communities, can grow from a single congregation or neighborhood outward. Nina actively offers to help other groups start.
About the Show:

Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship.
"Our theme song, 'Room for the Soul,' is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul."

About the Guest:

Dr. Nina Butler holds doctorates in special education and educational administration/education policy. A former school principal and longtime nonprofit leader, she is the face and organizer of Bikur Cholim of Pittsburgh / Friends of Jewish Patients, a 501(c)(3) volunteer network that provides material, logistical, and spiritual support to patients and families receiving medical care in Pittsburgh, whether they live nearby or travel from across the country or the world. She draws on personal experience navigating prolonged illness and hospitalization with her late son Mikey, as well as a multi-generational family tradition of hospitality and care.
Connect with the Guest / Organization
Website: https://www.bikurcholimofpittsburgh.org/
About the Host:
Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being.
He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients.
🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com
🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a
📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen
📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle
The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
51 min
July 21Lament as Narrative Medicine: Listening to Wounds, Grief & Healing | EP18
This episode is sponsored by NURP
NURP helps busy physicians grow their wealth through AI-powered algorithmic trading designed for demanding careers. No day trading, no guesswork, and no constant market watching required.
Ready to put your money to work? Visit start.nurp.com/doctors to learn more.
Trading involves risk, and results may vary. This is not financial advice.
—--------------------------
In this episode of Healing People, Not Patients, Dr. Jonathan Weinkle welcomes Reverend Dr. Anastasia Holman, Director of Spiritual Care Education at Indiana University Health and faculty at IU School of Medicine. Released just before Tisha B’Av, the conversation centers on lament the ancient practice of voicing deep pain, brokenness, and protest and its relevance to modern medical practice.
Drawing from Jewish, Christian, Islamic, and Black Church traditions, they discuss how laments are prayers that burst from wounds, why medical professionals hear them daily (often subtly), and how slowing down to truly listen, see, and notice patients’ existential distress can open pathways to deeper healing. Reverend Holman shares insights on the role of memory and the senses in connecting across differences, practical ways clinicians can show they’ve heard a patient’s cry (including the power of 40 seconds of compassion), and the integration of chaplaincy with medical care.
The discussion weaves personal stories from the COVID era, references to The Chaplain and the Doctor, and reflections on Tisha B’Av and the Book of Lamentations, emphasizing that lament is the beginning of healing and transformation, for individuals, communities, and the practice of medicine itself.
Top 3 Takeaways
Laments Are Prayers from Wounds: They are soul cries of pain, “why me?”, grief, and existential questioning that patients bring into clinical encounters. Recognizing them as such allows clinicians to address the full person, body, emotion, and spirit.

Listening Creates Healing Space: Slowing down, active listening, repeating back what you hear, and simply making space for the patient’s story (even for ~40 seconds) helps people feel seen and heard, which improves trust, adherence, and clinical outcomes.

All Humanity Has Suffered: Tapping into our own experiences of grief enables deeper connection across faith, culture, and background. Lament can unite rather than divide and is a foundational step toward individual and communal transformation.
Resource Mentioned:
The Unimaginable Trauma and Resillence of the People of Gaza
https://time.com/article/2026/07/14/trauma-resilience-gaza-james-gordon-essay

Song Lyrics:
Hebrew Version:

אין מילים, כי אין אבל באבל
אין בקיאות בבכי, לשכול אין שכל
בדמעון אין לחפש שום הגיון
באובדן אין מה לשאול אין לפקפק בסבל
בשום שפה אין אבל באבל
בבור אין מים, מתים מצמאון
תחת השיח בלב הישימון
נעקד על ראש ההר, הביאו אש ומאכלת
אשה ושפחתה בוכות בקול אחד לילד
בלב האם אין אבל באבל
English Translation:
There are no words; there is no “but” in bereavement
No expertise in weeping, no wisdom in mourning
In tears we don’t seek sense
In loss we don’t ask, we don’t pick apart suffering
There is no “but” in bereavement – in any language
In the pit, there is no water, only thirst
Under the bush, in the heart of the desert
Bound on the mountain top, they brought the fire, and the knife
A woman and her maidservant weep in one voice for the boy
In the mother’s heart, there is no “but” in bereavement
About the Show:

Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship.
"Our theme song, 'Room for the Soul,' is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul."
About the Guest
Reverend Dr. Anastasia Holman is the Director of Spiritual Care Education at Indiana University Health and faculty at Indiana University School of Medicine. She co-leads programs integrating spirituality and medicine, including Clinical Pastoral Education (CPE) and scholarly concentrations for medical students. With a womanist lens and deep experience in interfaith collaboration, she trains chaplains and helps medical professionals incorporate lament and spiritual care into patient encounters.
About the Host:
Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being.
He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients.
🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com
🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a
📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen
📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle
The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
1 hr 1 min
July 07How Financial Freedom Protects Against Moral Injury
This episode is sponsored by NURP
NURP helps busy physicians grow their wealth through AI-powered algorithmic trading designed for demanding careers. No day trading, no guesswork, and no constant market watching required.
Ready to put your money to work? Visit start.nurp.com/doctors to learn more.
Trading involves risk, and results may vary. This is not financial advice.
—--------------------------
What does financial freedom mean for physicians, especially those in lower-paying fields like primary care, and how can it protect against burnout and moral injury?
In this sponsored episode of Healing People, Not Patients, Dr. Jonathan Winkle welcomes Jeff Seckinger, founder of NURP (and previously Zero Percent and Orca Capital). They explore why many doctors feel trapped by financial pressures, the limitations of traditional financial advice for high-earning professionals, and how algorithmic trading tools can offer autonomy, diversification, and supplemental income without handing over custody of capital.
Jeff explains the differences between investing and trading, the power of institutional-grade algorithms (inspired by funds like the Medallion Fund), capital preservation, verified performance through third-party platforms like MyFXBook, and practical risk management tools such as equity monitors and adjustable position sizing. The conversation addresses concentration risk, liquidity, alternatives investing, and why autonomy over one’s finances supports the ability to practice medicine with integrity.
Complete with full disclaimers, a demo account option for testing, and transparent discussion of drawdowns, this episode invites physicians to thoughtfully explore tools that can create margin for their mission.
Top 3 Takeaways
Financial Autonomy Reduces Burnout: Physicians who are financially precarious may feel forced into high-volume, misaligned care. Building diversified income streams and liquidity outside traditional retirement accounts can provide the freedom to say no to the wrong job or unethical pressures.

Algorithmic Trading Offers Autonomy & Diversification: Unlike funds, NURP licenses software that runs in your own brokerage account. It enables trading (profiting in up, down, or sideways markets) with verified track records, positive expectancy strategies, and user-controlled settings, while keeping full custody and liquidity.

Risk & Due Diligence Matter: All investments carry risk, including drawdowns (e.g., ~26% max on the Midas gold strategy vs. gold’s higher drawdown but far lower returns). Use demo accounts, third-party verified performance (MyFXBook + broker statements), adjustable risk settings, and equity monitors to align with personal tolerance.
About the Show
Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship.
"Our theme song, 'Room for the Soul,' is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul."
About the Guest
Jeff Seckinger is the founder of NURP, a company that licenses algorithmic trading strategies to individual investors. He previously founded Zero Percent (financial education) and Orca Capital (digital asset hedge fund). His mission is to democratize access to advanced trading technology, helping individuals, especially those not yet accredited, achieve greater financial freedom and autonomy without surrendering custody of their capital.
Visit start.nurp.com/doctors for the demo account and more information.

About the Host:
Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being.
He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients.
🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com
🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a
📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen
📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle
The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
46 min
June 23Grief, Shiva, and the Jewish Wisdom of Mourning | Ep16
This episode is sponsored by NURP
NURP helps busy physicians grow their wealth through AI-powered algorithmic trading designed for demanding careers. No day trading, no guesswork, and no constant market watching required.
Ready to put your money to work? Visit start.nurp.com/doctors to learn more.
Trading involves risk, and results may vary. This is not financial advice.
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What does it mean to truly sit with grief, and how can ancient traditions help us do it well?
In Episode 16 of Healing People, Not Patients, Dr. Jonathan Weinkle sits down with Nancy Zionts in a warm, intimate conversation (complete with a schnauzer guest appearance) about Jewish practices of mourning, the superpower of “ruling shiva,” and why structured rituals matter for healing. Nancy shares her journey, from becoming a kaddish for a young widow at age 18 to supporting countless families through loss, while reflecting on her own experiences as a daughter, widow, and mother.
The discussion covers the structure and purpose of shiva (the seven-day mourning period), the importance of community, food, storytelling, and music in mourning, saying Kaddish, the value of “new to me” memories, and why grief is ultimately an expression of love. They also connect these themes to broader work on end-of-life conversations, the Closure project, and how healthcare professionals can better support patients and families facing serious illness and death.
A rich, heartfelt exploration of ritual, resilience, and what it means to honor the dead while continuing to live.
Top 3 Takeaways
Shiva as Structured Healing: The Jewish tradition of sitting shiva for seven days removes daily obligations and creates space for grief. Giving yourself over to the process, supported by community, stories, and practical care, helps the body and soul begin to heal rather than rushing back to “normal.”

Grief Is an Outlet for Love: True grief stems from deep love. Traditions like annual yahrzeits, memorial prayers during holidays, sharing stories, and asking for “new to me” photos keep the person’s memory alive and give grief healthy outlets instead of letting it build up or be trivialized.

Support Mourners Actively: Don’t just say “I’m sorry.” Visit, bring food, lead or attend services, listen to stories, and avoid burdening mourners with thanks or tasks. Healthcare providers especially should practice radical honesty, prepare families for trajectories, and remember that presence and clear communication are among the greatest gifts.
Episode Mentioned:
Episode 1: high-priests-of-medicine-has-healthcare-become-its-own-religion-ep1
Episode 7: healing-and-humanity-ideas-for-the-next-generation-of-medicine-ep7
Blog Post(2020) : https://healerswholisten.com/listen-self/
About the Show
Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship.
"Our theme song, "Room for the Soul," is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul."

About the Guest
Nancy Zionts is a longtime community leader in Pittsburgh’s Jewish community, known for her deep knowledge and practice of Jewish mourning rituals. A chemist by training and strategic planner by profession, she has been instrumental in initiatives like the Closure project focused on improving end-of-life conversations. Nancy has supported countless families through shiva and mourning and continues to lead services and build community support for mourners. She is also a mother, grandmother, and widow who draws on personal loss to help others.
About the Host:
Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being.
He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients.
🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com
🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a
📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen
📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle

The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
1 hr 2 min
June 09Beyond the Prescription : A Relational Approach to Psychopharmacology | Ep15
What if prescribing medication meant more than following an algorithm, it meant walking alongside patients in their stories?
In Episode 15 of Healing People, Not Patients, Dr. Warren Kinghorn and Dr. Abraham Nussbaum discuss their co-authored book Prescribing Together: A Relational Guide to Psychopharmacology. Drawing on the Hasidic story of the Turkey Prince, they challenge the dominant “vending machine” model of psychiatry and emphasize meeting patients where they are, understanding the personal and narrative
meaning of symptoms like hallucinations, depression, or emotional dysregulation.
The conversation covers collaborative prescribing for conditions including schizophrenia/psychosis, depression (and SSRIs), eating disorders, bipolar, and borderline personality disorder. They highlight the importance of diagnosis as a provisional tool that should open helpful pathways forward, the value of social prescribing and therapeutic relationships, de-prescribing when appropriate, and reclaiming psychiatry as a deeply human, meaning-centered practice.
Top 3 Takeaways:
Relational Prescribing Over Dispensing: Move beyond symptom checklists and quick prescriptions to build trusting alliances, understand patients’ life stories, and collaborate on what will help them regain meaning and function even if the illness isn’t fully “cured.”

Engage the Meaning of Symptoms: Hallucinations, delusions, or emotional states are not just targets to eliminate; their personal significance to the patient, and potential overlap with trauma/PTSD matters. Questions like “What do these voices mean to you?” or “Do you want them to go away?” restore agency and open richer treatment possibilities.

Good Diagnosis Leads to Helpful Pathways: Labels should guide effective care rather than lock patients into unhelpful medication-heavy paths. Combine medications thoughtfully with social connections, presence, and when needed, de-prescribing.
About the Show
Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship.
"Our theme song, "Room for the Soul," is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul."
About the Guests
Dr. Warren Kinghorn is a psychiatrist and theologian, and co-director of the Theology, Medicine, and Culture Initiative at Duke Divinity School. He is passionate about psychiatry as a relational practice rooted in practical wisdom and human connection.
Dr. Abraham Nussbaum is a psychiatrist at the University of Colorado School of Medicine and Denver Health, where he serves as Chief Education Officer. He is a writer and educator who emphasizes narrative approaches in medicine and the importance of restoring patients’ stories.
Together, they are the authors of Prescribing Together: A Relational Guide to Psychopharmacology.

Connect with the Guests
Dr. Warren Kinghorn: [email protected] | Duke Faculty Page
Dr. Abraham Nussbaum: [email protected] | abrahamnussbaum.com/contact
About the Host
Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being.
He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients.
🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com
🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a
📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen
📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle

The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
58 min
May 26Five Keys to Sustaining Your Career in the Helping Profession with Dr. Brian C. Miller | Ep14
Can healthcare professionals remain compassionate while working inside systems that often undermine compassion itself?
In Part 2 of this powerful conversation, Dr. Jonathan Weinkle continues his discussion with therapist, researcher, and author Dr. Brian C. Miller about sustaining meaning and emotional wellbeing in the helping professions. Together, they tackle the difficult reality many clinicians face: systems overloaded with bureaucracy, time pressure, documentation demands, and emotional exhaustion.
Rather than ignoring those systemic failures, Brian argues that clinicians must learn how to remain active participants in their work instead of passive victims of broken institutions. Through concepts like “un-gloving” instead of “armoring up,” cultivating ease rather than constant fight-or-flight, and shifting from earned compassion to radical compassion, Brian reframes resilience as an ongoing practice of emotional regulation, connection, and meaning-making.
The episode also explores Brian’s CE-CERT model, practical strategies for reducing emotional labor, and the importance of narrative in sustaining a career in healthcare. Blending psychology, spirituality, medicine, and personal reflection, this conversation offers clinicians a hopeful but realistic framework for staying human in environments that often feel dehumanizing.
Top 3 Takeaways:
Burnout Is Fueled More by Systems Than by Patients: Dr. Brian Miller explains that the greatest sources of emotional exhaustion are often not traumatic patient encounters, but systemic failures like excessive documentation, bureaucracy, and broken healthcare structures. Sustainable healing work begins by acknowledging those realities while still finding meaningful moments of human connection within them.

Compassion Requires Ease, Not Constant Self-Protection: Clinicians cannot experience true compassion while stuck in fight-or-flight mode. Brian emphasizes the importance of creating moments of emotional ease and nervous system regulation throughout the workday, even through small practices like conscious breathing, body awareness, or brief pauses between patient encounters.

Radical Compassion Means Caring Before Patients Earn It: Some patients naturally elicit empathy, while others trigger frustration, defensiveness, or emotional distance. Brian argues that true healing work involves cultivating compassion even for the most difficult patients by becoming curious about their suffering rather than reacting to their behavior.
About the Guest:
Dr. Brian C. Miller is a therapist, researcher, and author specializing in secondary traumatic stress, emotional resilience, and sustainability in the helping professions. He holds a PhD in social science research from Case Western Reserve University and has worked extensively in behavioral health with both adults and children.
Brian is the author of Reducing Secondary Traumatic Stress: Skills for Sustaining a Career in the Helping Professions, where he challenges conventional burnout narratives and offers practical approaches for cultivating empathy, emotional boundaries, and resilience in caregiving professions.
🔗 Connect with Dr. Brian C. Miller:
Website: https://www.cecertmodel.com
📚 Book: Reducing Secondary Traumatic Stress: Skills for Sustaining a Career in the Helping Professions

About the Show:
Healing People, Not Patients explores ways to enhance medical practice by infusing it with compassion, humanity, and a deeper sense of purpose, aiming to help healthcare professionals rediscover the "soul" of their work. Framed around the four questions of the Passover Seder, it probes how to transform medicine for the better, promoting an empathetic and supportive approach that empowers patients to create meaningful, sober lives, while drawing on Jewish teachings about community and friendship.
"Our theme song, "Room for the Soul," is available on Bandcamp at https://jonathanweinkle.bandcamp.com/track/room-for-the-soul."
About the Host:
Dr. Jonathan Weinkle is an internist and pediatrician who practices primary care at a community health center in Pittsburgh. He strives to be a "nice Jewish doctor" focused on patient-centered healthcare, emphasizing effective communication and holistic well-being.
He teaches the courses, “Death and the Healthcare Professions” and “Healing and Humanity” at the University of Pittsburgh, authored the books Healing People, Not Patients and Illness to Exodus, and runs ‘Healers Who Listen’, where he blogs on healing and Jewish tradition. Once an aspiring rabbi, he now integrates faith and medicine to support other physicians and his own patients.
🌐 Website: healerswholisten.com
🔗 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathan-weinkle-3440032a
📸 Instagram: @HealersWhoListen
📘 Facebook: @JonathanWeinkle

The Healing People, Not Patients Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute medical, legal, or professional advice. Always consult qualified professionals regarding your personal or organizational decisions.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
43 min

About Healing People, Not Patients

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Welcome to Healing People, Not Patients, hosted by Dr. Jonathan Weinkle, MD, FAAP, FACP. A primary care physician and teacher deeply grounded in Jewish wisdom, Dr. Weinkle invites listeners to explore medicine not as a business transaction but as a sacred calling.

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