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Heart, Grit & Curiosity or Failure
Jamie Dimon says heart, grit and curiosity are the three most important characteristics for leaders to have or they will fail. We breakdown these three mindset capacities, how they're defined and how to cultivate them for maximum personal growth.
www.successbeyondgameday.com
[00:05] Ryan: Welcome to shift happens where we talk everything, mindset, development, taking lessons from college and pro athletes, coaches and teams we work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. And today we're talking about a clip that we saw from a non athlete. Now, he may have played sports growing up, but a big time CEO of Chase Bank, Jamie Dimon.
[00:30] Cheney: Right.
[00:30] Ryan: Very well known in the news almost daily. But we're not talking banking, we're talking about leadership. And he was in an article and he was talking about the three characteristics that every leader needs that he looks for or they're almost guaranteed they're going to fail. So it's not GPA, right? Here's a hint. It's not GPA. It's not where you went to school. Right. It's those intangibles that a lot of times as athletes, this is what we develop. Right. And so the three things. Right. Without further ado, heart, grit and curiosity. Cheney, what did you think when you first saw this one?
[01:16] Cheney: Well, just, it makes a lot of sense. And that's what we, what we get to do on a day to day basis. And hearing somebody in the corporate world talk about these three, you know, intangibles, it just, obviously it's very heartwarming to hear and it's more affirmation of, hey, continue what you guys are doing because not only is this valuable for athletes, high school, college, pro, this helps those professional athletes and the corporate world. It's just as impactful for them as, as it is for, for athletes coming up through their respective sports.
[01:55] Ryan: Absolutely. So, you know, when I think heart, I think determination, willpower, mental toughness, those, those sorts of things. Right? Yeah. I'm thinking, you know, what are you willing to endure to reach your goals, right. Short, long term goals, whatever it may be. And then curiosity. This is the one that, if I had to say athletes may be missing one of these and could develop more is curiosity. And so to me, curiosity is the willingness to learn to seek information, get better, innovate. And I think about Tom Brady in an interview. I heard where he was talking about his health journey, right. And it wasn't a one day he woke up and said, I'm going to make all these changes into my health. Right. It started with this idea, a long term goal of, hey, I really like playing this game. I kind of want to see how long I can play it.
[03:05] Cheney: Right.
[03:05] Ryan: And he came out and said, I'd like to play till, till 45. And then one day he said, hey, maybe I should start drinking more water. And so he eventually worked up to drinking, like, two gallons of water a day. And after a couple weeks, he's like, man, I really feel better. I'm performing a little bit better. Right? And so then it started this journey of, all right, well, how else can I help my body become, you know, sustain what it's going to have to sustain in order for me to reach that goal? And then it became the diet and, you know, certain percentage of meat versus vegetables, and then it impacted his training and how he did his training, the type of training he did, which, if you've seen his body, he's not Mister Olympia, right? He's nothing, you know, trying to squat 400 pounds anymore, bench, you know, 350 or whatever it is. It's more of making sure his muscles are, have that elasticity in order to make it through the season at, at later ages. And it was then how he felt afterward. And as he got older, he was quoted as saying, I felt better at, you know, 40 than I did in my early thirties from a physical standpoint, because of those changes. But it started with that goal, but then the curiosity aspect on how can I achieve this goal quicker or better, which meant going outside the norms, right?
[04:45] Cheney: Well, I think, and we both could speak to this as young athletes. We're basically told, do this, right? And don't question me. I'm the adult. I'm the coach. I'm the one that tells you what to do. You just say, yes, sir, yes, ma'am, you go do it right. So I think it's a lot like with being a strategic thinker, we're not necessarily taught that either, growing up. It's more about, hey, be a good friend, be a good classmate, be a good teammate, get your work done, you know, get you, you know, do the. Do the right things. But we're not necessarily taught, okay, strategic, big picture, visionary, that we don't, we don't get that. Right. Um, so I kind of, that's. I think that speaks to the curiosity side of why we may be lacking in that area. It's like, even in, in college, too, it's, the play comes in, run the play. Now, depending on the age of the quarterback, may have some flexibility, and. Okay, I'm reading the defense. I see this. I may make a tweak to the, to the play, but I. We're not really fostering that intangible of curiosity.
[05:55] Ryan: Right, right. So here's my question. Right? We take all that in heart, grit, curiosity, being able to measure. It has been fun for us, which is unique right. But can you teach these teacher coach these aspects? Right. These capacities or do you need to be born with it?
[06:18] Cheney: I think you can teach all of it. Right. But the athlete has got to be willing to receive it. Also, more importantly, the coach needs to know how to teach that. How is it being received? How does the athlete need to receive it, basically for it to make sense, for them to understand it and be able to embrace it and start to use it.
[06:41] Ryan: Yeah, I would say to a certain degree, you have to be born with it. Right?
[06:47] Cheney: Well, yeah, there's some nature and nurture there, obviously. Yeah.
[06:51] Ryan: Yeah. I mean, you have to have, the seed has to be planted in the head. Right. But then it has to be cultivated as, as time goes on. So the younger you start playing sports, typically the more athletic you become. Right. And it's the same thing here. The younger you start encouraging these, especially the curiosity aspect, the more it's going to develop. Right, right. But you're right. I think it's, you have to, you have to cultivate it in the right manner in order to get the results that, you know, ultimately diamond was talking about and becoming better leaders and being able then to use your experiences to help others come along.
[07:44] Cheney: Yeah. Well, and we know so many athletes that we played, we played against or seen that were just supremely talented, but they didn't make it that far because they were so supremely talented. They didn't really have to work hard. They didn't know what it meant to, to be challenged, to have to deal with adversity. Right. And I think that's where that heart and the grip really is important to help move you on to the next step, whatever that may be, whether it's the next level athletically or if it's challenging myself to get better for that CEO position.
[08:23] Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, if I'm, if I'm an athlete or if I'm in the corporate world right now and I'm saying, all right, how can I develop this? How can I get stronger in these areas? I think, think the first part, you know, grit is going to follow heart. And my opinion, because heart is your, again, your determination or your willpower, your mental toughness towards a goal. So the earlier you can identify what that goal is and why that goal is important to you, and it's both.
[08:58] Cheney: Right.
[08:58] Ryan: It's not just saying, hey, I want to, yeah, I want to be the CEO or I want to make it to the, to the major leagues or NFL. It's. Why do you want to do that? Right. And so it's. It's both. It's figuring out what the goal is, why you want to do it so bad, and then the grit is going to come along with it.
[09:18] Cheney: Right.
[09:18] Ryan: So if you want it bad enough, you're willing to endure a lot in order to get it right.
[09:25] Cheney: Well, look at it. That's right.
[09:28] Ryan: Yeah. And then it's the curiosity of. All right, how have people gotten here before? Well, is that still the best way? And it's. And it's just exploring and just being interested in the process and what you have to do in order to achieve those goals. Can I get there quicker? Can I get there more efficiently? Can I skip a couple steps? Right. And it's. And it starts with that, and that's what starts to drive the curiosity. And then that leads to the rabbit hole of continued learning and continued experiences which help out down the road.
[10:06] Cheney: Well, and you're. And you're right, too, now. And go back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You gotta build. You gotta start at the foundation. You know, you gotta have the safety, the security, and then you. And then you can build upon that. But you. So you can't skip. You skip a step, and then you're gonna end up having to go back and do that step anyway. So you might as well just do it, right. Yeah. Now, think about. Just grit in general, the military, you know, whether it's rangers or green berets or seals, you know, we see. We've seen so many movies out there about seals, and I watch that, too. And I think about those instructors. Their goal is to make you quit, to push you to past your limits, to make you quit. And what is that ultimately doing? It's for those who do persevere and get through it and survive it. I know that, hey, I'll go anywhere with you. We'll do. You know, you're my partner, and we're. We're going to go protect. Um, so that I think that is the. The biggest. The biggest measures of grit that we. That we actually can see.
[11:20] Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. I think to hit on that and to wrap up this episode, it's. I remember listening to a couple of the, you know, sequel team six guys that were on the helicopter going to get bin Laden, and. And, um, you know, the heart, why they were doing it.
[11:40] Cheney: Yeah.
[11:40] Ryan: Was because they saw the people where the last, you know, saving Grace was the lady holding her dress down as she jumped out of the burning building because she didn't want the camera people to get, you know, a shot up the skirt. And that's why a lot of these guys got into those positions, right. And went to the next level and all that. And they were in the helicopter. They realized that, you know, so the heart was taken care of. They knew what their goal was. Right. They had the willpower to get to the level where they could then be selected to go on this mission. The conversation on the, on the chopper was, you realize we're not coming back. Like, this is a one way trip. And they all got it. Right. So what are you willing to endure in order to accomplish that long term goal? Right. They were willing to sacrifice their lives. Right. And then the curiosity with them is, all right, how do we continue to practice and get better so that when situations like the helicopter crashing happens, the objective can still get met.
[12:56] Cheney: Right.
[12:56] Ryan: How do you practice and know what you're going to do in any situation? And so that was a perfect example to end this one with. So Jamie Dimon agrees with Ryan and Cheney on shift happens. But thank you for joining us again on another episode, and we'll see you soon.
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By Ryan Schachtner & Cheney RobinsonJamie Dimon says heart, grit and curiosity are the three most important characteristics for leaders to have or they will fail. We breakdown these three mindset capacities, how they're defined and how to cultivate them for maximum personal growth.
www.successbeyondgameday.com
[00:05] Ryan: Welcome to shift happens where we talk everything, mindset, development, taking lessons from college and pro athletes, coaches and teams we work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. And today we're talking about a clip that we saw from a non athlete. Now, he may have played sports growing up, but a big time CEO of Chase Bank, Jamie Dimon.
[00:30] Cheney: Right.
[00:30] Ryan: Very well known in the news almost daily. But we're not talking banking, we're talking about leadership. And he was in an article and he was talking about the three characteristics that every leader needs that he looks for or they're almost guaranteed they're going to fail. So it's not GPA, right? Here's a hint. It's not GPA. It's not where you went to school. Right. It's those intangibles that a lot of times as athletes, this is what we develop. Right. And so the three things. Right. Without further ado, heart, grit and curiosity. Cheney, what did you think when you first saw this one?
[01:16] Cheney: Well, just, it makes a lot of sense. And that's what we, what we get to do on a day to day basis. And hearing somebody in the corporate world talk about these three, you know, intangibles, it just, obviously it's very heartwarming to hear and it's more affirmation of, hey, continue what you guys are doing because not only is this valuable for athletes, high school, college, pro, this helps those professional athletes and the corporate world. It's just as impactful for them as, as it is for, for athletes coming up through their respective sports.
[01:55] Ryan: Absolutely. So, you know, when I think heart, I think determination, willpower, mental toughness, those, those sorts of things. Right? Yeah. I'm thinking, you know, what are you willing to endure to reach your goals, right. Short, long term goals, whatever it may be. And then curiosity. This is the one that, if I had to say athletes may be missing one of these and could develop more is curiosity. And so to me, curiosity is the willingness to learn to seek information, get better, innovate. And I think about Tom Brady in an interview. I heard where he was talking about his health journey, right. And it wasn't a one day he woke up and said, I'm going to make all these changes into my health. Right. It started with this idea, a long term goal of, hey, I really like playing this game. I kind of want to see how long I can play it.
[03:05] Cheney: Right.
[03:05] Ryan: And he came out and said, I'd like to play till, till 45. And then one day he said, hey, maybe I should start drinking more water. And so he eventually worked up to drinking, like, two gallons of water a day. And after a couple weeks, he's like, man, I really feel better. I'm performing a little bit better. Right? And so then it started this journey of, all right, well, how else can I help my body become, you know, sustain what it's going to have to sustain in order for me to reach that goal? And then it became the diet and, you know, certain percentage of meat versus vegetables, and then it impacted his training and how he did his training, the type of training he did, which, if you've seen his body, he's not Mister Olympia, right? He's nothing, you know, trying to squat 400 pounds anymore, bench, you know, 350 or whatever it is. It's more of making sure his muscles are, have that elasticity in order to make it through the season at, at later ages. And it was then how he felt afterward. And as he got older, he was quoted as saying, I felt better at, you know, 40 than I did in my early thirties from a physical standpoint, because of those changes. But it started with that goal, but then the curiosity aspect on how can I achieve this goal quicker or better, which meant going outside the norms, right?
[04:45] Cheney: Well, I think, and we both could speak to this as young athletes. We're basically told, do this, right? And don't question me. I'm the adult. I'm the coach. I'm the one that tells you what to do. You just say, yes, sir, yes, ma'am, you go do it right. So I think it's a lot like with being a strategic thinker, we're not necessarily taught that either, growing up. It's more about, hey, be a good friend, be a good classmate, be a good teammate, get your work done, you know, get you, you know, do the. Do the right things. But we're not necessarily taught, okay, strategic, big picture, visionary, that we don't, we don't get that. Right. Um, so I kind of, that's. I think that speaks to the curiosity side of why we may be lacking in that area. It's like, even in, in college, too, it's, the play comes in, run the play. Now, depending on the age of the quarterback, may have some flexibility, and. Okay, I'm reading the defense. I see this. I may make a tweak to the, to the play, but I. We're not really fostering that intangible of curiosity.
[05:55] Ryan: Right, right. So here's my question. Right? We take all that in heart, grit, curiosity, being able to measure. It has been fun for us, which is unique right. But can you teach these teacher coach these aspects? Right. These capacities or do you need to be born with it?
[06:18] Cheney: I think you can teach all of it. Right. But the athlete has got to be willing to receive it. Also, more importantly, the coach needs to know how to teach that. How is it being received? How does the athlete need to receive it, basically for it to make sense, for them to understand it and be able to embrace it and start to use it.
[06:41] Ryan: Yeah, I would say to a certain degree, you have to be born with it. Right?
[06:47] Cheney: Well, yeah, there's some nature and nurture there, obviously. Yeah.
[06:51] Ryan: Yeah. I mean, you have to have, the seed has to be planted in the head. Right. But then it has to be cultivated as, as time goes on. So the younger you start playing sports, typically the more athletic you become. Right. And it's the same thing here. The younger you start encouraging these, especially the curiosity aspect, the more it's going to develop. Right, right. But you're right. I think it's, you have to, you have to cultivate it in the right manner in order to get the results that, you know, ultimately diamond was talking about and becoming better leaders and being able then to use your experiences to help others come along.
[07:44] Cheney: Yeah. Well, and we know so many athletes that we played, we played against or seen that were just supremely talented, but they didn't make it that far because they were so supremely talented. They didn't really have to work hard. They didn't know what it meant to, to be challenged, to have to deal with adversity. Right. And I think that's where that heart and the grip really is important to help move you on to the next step, whatever that may be, whether it's the next level athletically or if it's challenging myself to get better for that CEO position.
[08:23] Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, if I'm, if I'm an athlete or if I'm in the corporate world right now and I'm saying, all right, how can I develop this? How can I get stronger in these areas? I think, think the first part, you know, grit is going to follow heart. And my opinion, because heart is your, again, your determination or your willpower, your mental toughness towards a goal. So the earlier you can identify what that goal is and why that goal is important to you, and it's both.
[08:58] Cheney: Right.
[08:58] Ryan: It's not just saying, hey, I want to, yeah, I want to be the CEO or I want to make it to the, to the major leagues or NFL. It's. Why do you want to do that? Right. And so it's. It's both. It's figuring out what the goal is, why you want to do it so bad, and then the grit is going to come along with it.
[09:18] Cheney: Right.
[09:18] Ryan: So if you want it bad enough, you're willing to endure a lot in order to get it right.
[09:25] Cheney: Well, look at it. That's right.
[09:28] Ryan: Yeah. And then it's the curiosity of. All right, how have people gotten here before? Well, is that still the best way? And it's. And it's just exploring and just being interested in the process and what you have to do in order to achieve those goals. Can I get there quicker? Can I get there more efficiently? Can I skip a couple steps? Right. And it's. And it starts with that, and that's what starts to drive the curiosity. And then that leads to the rabbit hole of continued learning and continued experiences which help out down the road.
[10:06] Cheney: Well, and you're. And you're right, too, now. And go back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You gotta build. You gotta start at the foundation. You know, you gotta have the safety, the security, and then you. And then you can build upon that. But you. So you can't skip. You skip a step, and then you're gonna end up having to go back and do that step anyway. So you might as well just do it, right. Yeah. Now, think about. Just grit in general, the military, you know, whether it's rangers or green berets or seals, you know, we see. We've seen so many movies out there about seals, and I watch that, too. And I think about those instructors. Their goal is to make you quit, to push you to past your limits, to make you quit. And what is that ultimately doing? It's for those who do persevere and get through it and survive it. I know that, hey, I'll go anywhere with you. We'll do. You know, you're my partner, and we're. We're going to go protect. Um, so that I think that is the. The biggest. The biggest measures of grit that we. That we actually can see.
[11:20] Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. I think to hit on that and to wrap up this episode, it's. I remember listening to a couple of the, you know, sequel team six guys that were on the helicopter going to get bin Laden, and. And, um, you know, the heart, why they were doing it.
[11:40] Cheney: Yeah.
[11:40] Ryan: Was because they saw the people where the last, you know, saving Grace was the lady holding her dress down as she jumped out of the burning building because she didn't want the camera people to get, you know, a shot up the skirt. And that's why a lot of these guys got into those positions, right. And went to the next level and all that. And they were in the helicopter. They realized that, you know, so the heart was taken care of. They knew what their goal was. Right. They had the willpower to get to the level where they could then be selected to go on this mission. The conversation on the, on the chopper was, you realize we're not coming back. Like, this is a one way trip. And they all got it. Right. So what are you willing to endure in order to accomplish that long term goal? Right. They were willing to sacrifice their lives. Right. And then the curiosity with them is, all right, how do we continue to practice and get better so that when situations like the helicopter crashing happens, the objective can still get met.
[12:56] Cheney: Right.
[12:56] Ryan: How do you practice and know what you're going to do in any situation? And so that was a perfect example to end this one with. So Jamie Dimon agrees with Ryan and Cheney on shift happens. But thank you for joining us again on another episode, and we'll see you soon.