Shift Happens - Athlete Mindset Hacks

The NCAA released a new study on student athlete sleep habits and the results are very revealing. In this episode we go over the results and what we can take away from them.

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Ryan: Welcome to shift happens athlete Mindset hacks, where we talk everything, mindset development, taking lessons from the college and pro athletes, coaches and teams, we get to work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. And today we're going to talk about sleep and something that I don't know that I get a lot of, you know, a father of three don't get a lot of it. Yeah, we're talking specifically sleep. And the study that the NCAA put out that asked the athletes specifically how their sleep habits impact their day to day and all the way up to their performance on the field, off the fields. I had to go back in the way back machine Cheney and try and remember what my sleep habits were like. And I don't think I had an issue with this one. I was pretty regimented and I went to bed early and got up early and got after what I needed to get after outside of those very few occasions where I went out and celebrated something with friends, uh, a little too hard. But this was, this was really surprising at the issues that a lot of these athletes were having. Just, just getting the right amount of sleep.

Cheney: Well, that's, you know, nutritionists, dietitians, fitness coaches, instructors, they'll tell you you've got to get rest. That's where your body heals, that's where it recovers, that's where it grows. Right. Um, especially as you know, for weightlifters in particular. So we got to assume, you know, similarly here, that it's only going to be a positive if you're getting enough rest. And I. What was the, did it, what did it say? Was the, what was the ideal like? Is it 8 hours? Is that what we're trying to get every night?

Ryan: I think that, you know, that's what they say, but I think everybody's different. You know, some people need a little more. Some people, you know, can operate and function highly unless.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: But I think it's how that lack of sleep is really impacting them. So let's go. So the study says the percent of athletes reporting four or more days of poor sleep behavior in the last week. Right. So basically half the week they are experiencing for sleep behavior. And they clarify that or classify that in a couple different categories. They felt tired, dragged out, or sleepy during the day. So the men's sports and then women's sports, men said 41%, women 61%. So I mean, that's a huge, then they had to go to bed due to exhaustion. And so that's a level that's not just tired, that's I can't keep my eyes open. I'm about to crash physically, 23% of the men, 32% of the women, hard time falling asleep, 19% of guys, 25% of the ladies woke up too early. Now, you can joke, 100% would say that, but 17% of the guys and the women, 20% and fell asleep at an inappropriate time or place. The guys 10% and the women were 8%. So I'm reading that to mean in class right now. That could be an issue meeting. Yeah, that could be an issue with the, with the presenter, the TA or whatever. But. But these are pretty high numbers. And keep in mind, this is over half the week that they're experiencing.

Cheney: It's alarming, right. Because it's, you know, we're not getting, um, we're not getting the best out of these. Out of these individuals or they're not able to perform at their best. Right. Whether in the classroom or on the respective field. And it's. At the same time, it's. Is there a lack of. I don't know. That is the coach's responsibility to say, hey, make sure you're getting enough rest? Or is it the coaches responsibility to say, hey, need you here. Practice starts at three. You need to be warmed up and ready to go at 245 because I only got 2 hours with you and I'm gonna work you. I'm gonna work you those 2 hours. I'm gonna get everything I can out of you.

Ryan: You know, we think just coming from sports and is that really the cause or is it the cause of. As part of the cause, you know, the academic component and then you throw in the social component and then you throw into, I'm adjusting being away from home component. And so now they're, they're just dealing with more stuff and, and being able to, you know, filter out and, you know, prioritize what's important and when to do what and that sort of thing. But then they broke this out further, how it impacts their physical and mental functioning, right. Did student athlete physical, mental functioning versus days of restful sleep in the past week? So again, this is the past week, right. So zero to three days of restful sleep, 32% of the athletes say they retired from the physical demands of sports, right. Four to five days of restful sleep, 17% were tired from the physical demands of sport, and then six to seven days of restful sleep, 15% said that they were tired from the physical demands of sport. So, I mean, clearly, and I don't think this is earth shattering, right? But the more sleep you get, the less tired you feel from the physical demands of your sport, right?

Cheney: Yeah.

Ryan: And it gets into the tired from the mental demands of sport. Right. So, zero to three days of restful sleep, 29% felt tired from the mental demands of sport. Four to five days, 15% felt tired from the mental demands of sport. And then six to seven days of restful sleep you have. 13% felt tired from the mental demands of the sport. Right. So the. Again, the more sleep you get, the better mentally you can handle stuff. Again, not earth shattering.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: What I think is, at least to me, is that they're performing up to their ability, and that's what they went and measured, right?

Cheney: Yep.

Ryan: So, zero to three days of restful sleep, 40% thought that they were performing up to their ability. Four to five days you had. 47% thought that they were performing up to their ability, but six to seven days. So, essentially, I'm getting enough sleep all week. Only 57% thought that they were performing up to their ability.

Cheney: Yeah. No, there's. There's a lot of unpacking there, and I don't. I don't know that we're gonna be able to do it today, but I think there's a lot. There's a lot more that goes into that that I want to. I'd like to know.

Ryan: I think there's components of, you know, are you in the right system at the right school? Yeah, a lot of that type of stuff. But as they're relating it to just sleep. Right. I just, you know, obviously, sleep doesn't have that big of an impact. As I look at this on. On performing and how athletes feel that they're performing versus where they could be performing. Right.

Cheney: When it's their perception. Right. It's the perception. This is how they perceive that they are performing at their ability. Right.

Ryan: Yeah. And I'm. If I'm a coach and I'm reading this, I'm thinking, holy cow, like, I'm not getting the best out of my athletes, and so how do I do that? Yeah.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: Is it. Is it more, you know, physical training, getting stronger, eating better, or, you know, is it mindset and learning how to process information quickly, properly and stay in that peak zone? But 57%. I mean, that's just crazy. Over half your athletes aren't performing to what they view as their. As their best. I'm freaking out if I'm a coach.

Cheney: Yeah. Whereas now it's, well, what do we need to be doing, right? What are we not doing? How do we. How do we help maximize you, help you be the best version of yourself right now. Okay, let's unpack that. Let's figure this out. And it's going to have to be done on an individual basis. This is not going to be one of those that team wide, this is what we're doing. Obviously, there's some foundation stuff. Obviously. But I need to know each individual person to be able to figure out, okay, what's going to be, what's the strategic game plan for you? They have you at peak performance.

Ryan: Exactly.

Cheney: That's going to take a lot of time. And that's why, that's why they don't do it because it takes so much time, I think.

Ryan: Yeah. And they view if they do it on their own. Yes, it takes a lot of time and they don't know how to do it. Right. I mean, if I'm a baseball coach, I know baseball. If I'm a soccer coach, I know soccer. And, and I grew up doing things a certain way, practice and game situations and strategy and all of that type of stuff. But as an athlete growing up in that, I never experienced the mental training that a lot of these athletes need in order to fulfill and perform up to their ability. And because I never experienced that as now as a coach, I don't know how to treat the players or affect the players in a way that is going to get them there. Right. Unless I intentionally went out and learned this, which most coaches we deal with have not. Some have, and we give them credit, but most have not. They know their sports and especially at the collegiate level, if they're not coaching, they're recruiting. And if they're not recruiting, then they're spending some very precious time with family. Because when they're in season, they're in season. Right. They're out of season and it's recruiting time. They're traveling all over the place and not really there for their family. And so how then as a coach, do I not take away from my practice time? Because that's limited to me. Yeah. But then also add this other component, which I don't necessarily know how to do or have the time to do, but I know it's important to do. How do I even get that done?

Cheney: Well, I think that's where what we do is important in this. It helps to be able to identify what needs to be done and how to help do this. I think bigger picture, though, it's a shift in the mindset of what's important for the coach. Like we got to do x's and others. I get it. We got to do strategy and game plan. We got to do that stuff. But if I can focus attention on and be more intentional with this mindset, coaching and training, right, then I'm getting 57% say I get six or seven, 8 hours. You know, I get. I get enough sleep. I'm getting enough sleep and I'm only performing it 57% of performing at max capacity. Right. So maybe there needs to be more intentionality in the mental side of it because if we, if we can get them right on the mental side, then it is. It just. We would like to assume that it's going to have a positive effect in the locker room and on the field.

Ryan: Yeah, yeah. And I think the results that we're seeing in working with the athletes that, that, you know, and teams that we've worked with are once they can control or at least have ways to process and understand themselves and understand how to take in and how to, you know, view information, how the, how, how important certain things are in the grand scheme of things, how to react in different situations. Once they understand that and have a good idea of who they are, how athletics fits into their lives and their, their broader goals.

Cheney: Sure.

Ryan: We're seeing a significantly increased performance.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: And whether that's on, you know, the volleyball court, basketball court, football field, I mean, we're seeing it. So we know that the more you work on your mind, the better you're going to perform. One day we'll put a study out on everyone that we worked with, but so we know that goes hand in hand. It's just as the coach realizing that, hey, I. There are resources out there that don't. Again, I separate the mindset component from the mental health component in the mindset component, to me is proactive and the mental health component is reactive and both are needed. But if you can be proactive with how you're helping these athletes with their mindset and process information, there's going to be less need for the reactive mental health piece because they understand who they are, why they view things the way they view them, why they react the way they do, and that's going to help them with wins and performance on the field, off the field and all things included.

Cheney: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I wonder, too, if not to not pointing out Alabama, but they had a bad, tough game this past weekend. One of the defensive players didn't handle it very well. And I wonder now they've got to be reactive in how they're dealing with what happened there. If we're dealing, if we've got more mindset and mental health proactivity. Now, that's the correct word. Maybe that what happened didn't, doesn't happen. Well, it ends up being.

Ryan: No, and I think that's true. Right. Because if I'm that athlete and if I have an idea of what I want to do next in life, could be going pro in the NFL, it could be starting my own business or becoming a doctor or whatever.

Cheney: Yeah.

Ryan: If I, if I knew that's what I was going to do, because I knew myself a lot better and, and so I had a purpose, and I was able to identify then how playing football at Alabama fit into that, to help propel me to going pro in whatever they go pro in, how I could leverage that and how I process stress. And when a negative situation happens on the field, I can deal with that. And I have the restraint now because I know the ramification on this larger goal if I react a certain way. Or I could get the right people around me, if I can't process that properly, to put their arms around me and keep me from doing something when they recognize that I'm at that point. Right.

Cheney: So segue into Caitlin Clark, you know, towards the end of the regular season, you know, she's got some technical fouls, and then the team, literally, they basically are surrounding her. Hey, you know, let's close that. Let's lock that down a little bit. Right? Yep. They got the team around her to help. Hey, okay, this, this decompress a little bit, take a breath. And I think that would have been good for, for him. And I think the coach tried to get him off the field. Right, and sent a centered, a replacement player in, and the guy on the field, he sent him back and, you know, he's still on the field. I think there was an attempt there from a coach perspective, anyway. But I like the point that you're making, too. And then Joe Jackson has talked about this, that, you know, coach led team could be a good team, but a player led team can be a great team. And I think that's where maybe some of the players should have done exactly what you said, or, hey, hey, you know, dial it back a little bit. No, nobody likes this, but we're going to be okay.

Ryan: Yep. Well, you know, to the coaches, I think that the moral of the story is you can work on the mindset stuff without eating into your practice time. There's ways to do it, and it helps everybody. It helps the players, really, at the, at the end of the day, but it also helps the coaches win. A little bit more and get you to the next place that you want to be. So, yeah, mindset. You got to train the brain, right? You got to train the brain. And so, hey, thanks for joining us on another episode of Shift happens. I'm Ryan. This is Cheney. Until next time.

In this episode we discuss Caitlin Clark and the Enforcer/Lion Mindset.

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Ryan: Welcome to shift happens athlete Mindset hacks, where we talk everything. Mindset development, taking lessons from the college and pro athletes, the coaches and the teams that we get to work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson, and today we're going to venture into the WNBA, and we're going to talk about, I guess, the phenom that everybody is talking about, Caitlin Clarke, specifically about her comments controlling her emotions. And this was specifically after a loss in which she had, you know, 25 points, eight rebounds, eight assists. Like, she went out there and performed, but, you know, obviously frustrated with taking the l. And, you know, we cover this a couple of times, but it always comes up Cheney. It's, you know, we're talking about that. The elephant, the rhino, the lion.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: You know, the three different mindsets that. That people have, and she's clearly. She's in that lion mindset, and it's tough for lions.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: I mean, we speak from experience this, but it's tough for them in everything in life.

Cheney: Right. Well, and I think the mindset in regards to being the lion has shifted also from early WNBA season to where it is now. She was being with a very good teammate, distributing, getting everybody involved, and then the coach like, hey, I need you shooting more. So I think that gave her, okay, you've told me now I'm going to get it. I'm gonna be the lion, and I'm the leader of this team. I mean, she was two rebounds, two assists shy of another triple double, and has set all kinds of rookie records, but also league records, too.

Speaker D: Right?

Cheney: And I get it. Right. I mean, she's coming in. I don't know that she necessarily saw herself as being, hey, I'm the savior for the WNBA. I think she's been. She's been tabbed that, right. But she's come in, she's performed well.

Ryan: She's.

Cheney: I mean, she's established herself, you know, and thinking about just the emotions, and we hear coaches say, hey, be neutral. We talked to a club volleyball coach yesterday. He was talking about a neutral.

Speaker D: Don't.

Cheney: Don't let your emotions get the better of you, up or down, you know, one. One way or the other. And we can certainly see that. We see the value of that, too, because, again, there's that psychology of somebody getting to you, and now they know that they're swimming around in your head right now, having said all that, and I haven't watched every game.

Speaker D: Right.

Cheney: That she's played in. She's getting beaten up.

Speaker D: Right.

Cheney: I mean, they're they're getting. These folks are getting after her. And I don't know if it's just that, hey, it's hazing, or is this just initiation? And it's just being a rookie. That's what you got to deal with. But, I mean, she's taken some beatings, and I. And she probably had enough of it, most likely.

Ryan: And I've seen a couple of her games. You know, I think it's. It's getting fans that typically haven't been, you know, w. You know, viewed WNBA games, you know, in there. So there's been a lot placed on her shoulders, and she didn't ask for it. Right. But that's what happens to the line. And so the path has been walked before. You know, Jordan went through the exact same thing. Kobe went through the exact same thing. Shaquille O'Neal went through the exact. So these. These stars. Right, which are really just people, and the lion is that high achiever.

Cheney: Right?

Ryan: And so there's this torment that goes on inside their brain that they're never accomplishing their goals. Right. And this. And you and I talk about this all the time, right? And it's, you know, you know, we say, I can't turn my brain off, and it's always on, and it's always measuring against what could be, what could have been. And it's this torment that they go through, and so. And it's that. Such a rare individual that. That experiences this. That is born this way and has that, and that's what she's going through. Jordan had it where he. It didn't matter how he performed on the court. It could always be better. And Kobe had it. Right. And they just devote so much time and energy to perfecting their craft while knowing they will never perfect their craft. And it's a mental, like, just no chasing. Knowing that you're chasing something that you're never gonna reach is what these. This lion mindset goes through, and. And that's what she's facing.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: I think she's finally starting to learn about who she is, what it is to be a pro, and how to deal with just being who she is and also having to operate in that world where she's starting to realize not everybody thinks the way I think. And so how do I make this work?

Cheney: Well, and a lot of it, too, is with all the work that we get to do, is creating awareness, and there's. Now there's awareness, and she knows it and even has been able to articulate it and say, I know it. This is something I need to work on. And that's that we know that's the first step. You got to admit it first, be aware of it. And now you can start to take some, some action items. You put action in the place of how to. How do we, how do we figure this out?

Ryan: How do we navigate it? She's going to have to accept who she is, right. And when we work with athletes, that's, that's really where we start, is helping them identify why they see the world the way they see it. Who am I really? Because it starts there and it's accepting that this is who I am. And once you do that, it kind of takes the burden off your shoulders because she's not going to outgrow this mindset, right. This has been with her since she wanted to play at UConn and they didn't offer her, and she went to Iowa, and all she wanted to do was, you know, show that uConn, you made a mistake.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: Like, this is the mindset that she never forgets it. And you look at Jordan, if you look at, if you look at those people, they were okay not being liked. Right? They'd rather be feared than enlightened. And their circle of friends is really small. It's really tight. And because very few people understand how they process information, how they view success, failure, all that type of stuff. And people in general don't understand it. And so it's this bubble that they need to create in order to really stay sane. I just look back at, you know, when I played, you know, athletics, when I in business, all that sort of stuff. If you weren't putting in the same amount of work that I was putting in, I didn't have any time for you. You were, you were time away from me. And, and so that's the mindset that they, the lens that they view everything through. And it's not something that was taught to me. It's just something that I had every, as long as I can look back on, this is something that I had. And so you got to accept it. And you have to realize that not everyone's going to like you. You're not going to fit in every locker room, but you have to be you and put those, that good circle around you. But then it's also learning how do I interact with those that are not like me? How do I communicate, and how do I help them raise the bar so that it makes it almost more bearable for me? But also, we can accomplish, you know, winning. We can win the titles, all that type of stuff.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Cheney: Well, you. You've alluded to two of the best that have ever done that. Now, I'm not saying they did it the. The most effective way, but on the flip side of that, they kind of did. Between them, I think there were, what, twelve finals championships. So Jordan. Jordan talked about, he pushed them like he would. He would. He prod you and goad you and just to try to get the best out of you.

Speaker D: Right.

Cheney: But he was always, he was there. Nobody out working. I mean, the end of practice sprints, he was. He always finished first.

Speaker D: Right.

Cheney: So I'm first one here, last one to leave, that kind of thing. And I saw something with Kobe Bryant, and I don't. I can't remember if it was him or it was one of his teammates, but basically the impetus behind it was this particular person. Teammate was not working as hard as Kobe was. So Kobe was like, I'm not passing you the ball. Cause I don't trust that you go, you can perform. Cause you hadn't put the work in.

Ryan: Yeah, I saw that, too. I mean, there was a. There were guys wearing his shoes in the locker room, and he had the equipment manager take all the shoes away because they weren't. They weren't playing well. You almost operate in this dark zone, or you have a dark side that refuses to be brought to the good side.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: So you're. And it's this piece of you, and this is where we get into, you know, we had coach Kelly at LSU talk about that killer instinct. You know, we had talked about that a couple weeks ago, but it's that I've got these people on the ropes. I am gonna make them wish they never competed against me. I'm going to make them. And it's that dark side that you just want to bury them so that they are forever intimidated by you. And that could be in business, it could be in athletics. But so very few of those people exist. But that's what they live with, right? They live with this piece of them that's, you know, I think about the angel and the. And the demon on the shoulder in the cartoons, right? I. A lot of times you can just brush the demon off, but for these people, it always hangs on, and it's always there telling them, hey, don't stop. Can't quit. You can always do better. You're not good enough. And it's this constant again, it's this constant bar you're trying to reach that you will never reach, and you know it, and it torments you.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Ryan: And so that's what she's living.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: And so she's got to do a couple things. Yeah, she's got to, she's got to accept that's, that, you know, this is who I am. She's got to understand it, but then harness it to accomplish being a good teammate, to accomplish the, the goals. Understand that not everyone is going to be your friends. And to the rest of the league, it's a, she wasn't, you know, she's just out there playing ball.

Speaker D: Right.

Ryan: And I don't know, you don't know her, but she's just out there playing ball. And this all media hype has been placed on her shoulders, which then again, adds to the, to the torment it does.

Cheney: And what's, so, what I enjoy so much about these type athletes, and I was not nearly the caliber of any of these athletes that we've talked about, but they know that there's, as we've alluded, unattainable goal.

Speaker D: Right.

Cheney: And it torments them. But they're still so highly motivated to achieve that unattainable goal. They still, they're never, they're not deterred in the least of, hey, I'm still working hard, I'm putting the time in and I'm going to do everything that I can to get to this unattainable goal. And I think that's what's going to separate those elite, elite athletes from the majority.

Ryan: A lot of times we're taught in sports that we have to be that ultimate team player. And so there's a percentage of people that are these lions. Right. Or that enforcer personality that almost hold themselves back and they fight being who they are, which then affects them, you know, on the court, on the field, in business and all that. And so, you know, it's, you're either that effective person, you're the executor or you're the enforcer. And, you know, it's, you have to be good with who you are, but how you grow that person, how you develop that person is going to be unique to that style, to that, to those characteristics.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Ryan: And, you know, if you are that lion, if you're that enforcer type personality, you have to lean into it because otherwise you, it's going to be rough. Life is going to be rough. Everything you do, you're going to be battling this mental battle.

Cheney: Right. I think of Mike Tyson and, you know, when he started out, he was attack mode, but in the locker room, I mean, before he's even in the ring, he's, he's already in attack mode.

Speaker D: Right.

Cheney: And he put his foot on your throat. Figuratively.

Speaker D: Right.

Cheney: But it was, if he saw a *****, he went after it. If you stumbled, he's, now he's on top of you.

Speaker D: Right.

Cheney: So it was, I want to, like you talked about earlier, I want you to, I want to humiliate you and make you question ever getting into the boxing ring again, much less in the same ring with me.

Ryan: Embrace who you are. We've lived it. We've worked with these people. There's definitely development opportunities there, if done the right way. I'm Ryan, this is Cheney talking on shift happens. Athlete mindset, hacks. And we'll see you next time.

In this episode we talk about the three types of stress and how the ability to process them effectively directly correlates to the amount of success you will have in sports, relationships and life.

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[00:05] Ryan: Welcome to shift happens athlete mindset hacks, where we talk everything mindset development, taking lessons from college and pro athletes, the coaches, the teams that we get to work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. And today we're talking about how stress affects our performance on the field, on the court, in the race, in athletics. Jamie, this was an interesting one. Right. Because I think a lot of times people go to the, you know, the deep breathing, the, you know, visualization, and while those have, they play a role. You know, a lot of that is pre event, and stress affects us throughout the whole event and different types of stress. And, you know, so there's a lot more layers to it than just the simple, hey, take a deep breath and go get them, champ.

[01:08] Cheney: Right. Well, and I think stress, I'm going to assume stress is synonymous with pressure, right. So let's say we're at the end of the game, you know, and I've got to hit two free throws. There's a lot of stress in that. We need one to tie it up and I need one to win the game, you know, and that's where, as the article was talking about you, we tighten up. Right. There's so many times you tighten up in, in your respective sport, whether it's my, my grip on the baseball bat is tightened up. Cause I need to get a hit. I'm gonna drive the run in or I've pulled the string on the free throw and, and it's, I've shot it short or I've missed the two footer to win a golf tournament because the stress of, hey, this is a big deal, the pressure of it, right. So there's, there's, it's very important what, what we're talking about. But a lot of, like you said, is stuff that you're doing pregame. Right. And I'm old high school basketball coach used to tell us the night before game, he was like, visualize the game. You know, running out of the locker room, going through warm ups, all the different steps of the game. Visualize yourself doing that and going through it and being successful.

[02:22] Ryan: And I know that stuff works, right? The greats do that. But that to me is a band aid on what is a larger issue. And if you want to fix anything permanently, then you need to fix it at the foundation. And which is why we, you know, when we measure stress, we measure those three different components of it because they impact us differently. And I'd agree. I think this is referring to performance, which is what we measure. You know, the locker room, the workplace type stress that you're feeling and how does that then impact performance? But what are you experiencing inside that locker room? Did you, are you the rookie that's now getting to start for the first time? Is there a battle between you and a veteran for the starting spot? Are you not getting mentored? Do you feel like the coach or the GM? You know, you have a contract hold out or you're not getting playing time that you deserve? There's all different aspects to the stress that happens inside just that one area that we measure. And how do you process that and how do you view it and put different sorts of methods in place so that you can operate at your peak performance. That's really where we need to get to with this visualization can be a piece of it. Right. Breathing deep can be a piece of it, but again, that's a band aid. On the larger issue, you could have stress in your personal life that's going on where your girlfriend or boyfriend broke up with you, something's going on with your immediate family, a parent is sick. That sort of stress can also impact performance.

[04:19] Cheney: Absolutely.

[04:20] Ryan: And then just general stress. Right. You watch the news and you're stressed about, you know, different things that are happening or, you know, it could be anything in those three categories, but how you process it is going to be a little bit different depending on where it's coming from.

[04:42] Cheney: Well, and that's, you talked about the foundation, and we've got to have the mechanisms in place to handle the personal stress because that's going to impact all facets of life. Right. It's just, that's an inevitability. It will. Where if we've got, if we've got a good foundation handling stress personally, then if something negatively happens professionally, we can handle it. We can still, it's not going to affect everything personally where conversely, something personal is going to impact everything personal, professional, all of it. So it's having those mechanisms in place, and we're not really taught that. Right. It's not a, you know, a lot of times, you know, you talk, we, before we started recording today, it was used the word compartmentalize, and there's, there's some value in that, too, but it's sooner or later you got to unpack that and you got to, you got to work through it. Right.

[05:42] Ryan: You've got to be able to process.

[05:44] Cheney: That's right. You got to be able to process it. And so many times you talk about a lot of scenarios of being in the locker room. These athletes kind of isolate themselves or put themselves out on an island. And it's not necessarily woe was me, but you know, how. Why is this happening to me, right? Why can I not get this done? Why can I not get that starting position or beat out the veteran? Or why are the negotiations stalling? And I think a lot of that comes back to is communications, right? It's just being able to communicate, hey, here's the true, authentic self. This is what I'm looking for. This is what I need. And then finding that win win solution.

[06:31] Ryan: One of the things that I believe, and we are told adds the most value is before you can deal with the stress, you have to know how you deal with those three different types of stress. Because we work with college and pro athletes that can deal with personal stress extremely well, but inside the locker room, the work stress, not well at all, and then stress in general, anything outside the locker room or the workplace and the family, they're fine with. And so it's recognizing, if you're that athlete or that coach or that GM, if something's not happening performance wise, physically, on the field or on the court, what is the likely scenario? And if you can go to a specific stress area to identify, all right, what are the issues happening in this athlete's life that could be impacting in this one stress measurement, then that's the place to start. Right. It's having the clues to start looking when the performance isn't like you want it and athletes aren't. We're always performance focused. We're going to do our best to compartmentalize. We're going to be closed off. We're not going to tell people our feelings because we admit feelings. That's weakness. And, you know, that's how we were all brought up. But this is where you elevate from a coaching standpoint or a GM standpoint. The best of that world is being able to identify what areas my players or my key players or what areas do they tend to struggle with and then recognizing when performance is starting to decline. Hey, this is my go to because I have the clues, I have the data that gives me a path to start to operate on.

[08:45] Cheney: Yeah, well, and I think, too, it's getting to that safe zone of being comfortable sharing personal stuff, too. Right? I mean, we. We were talking about a coach that we'd worked with in a club basketball team, and one of the athletes shared some personal information that nobody knew, nobody was aware of. So now his teammates better understand him and where he's coming from, what makes him tick. And who he is and why he is the way he is. Because, again, we go back to experience drives beliefs and beliefs drive behavior. Right. So that's where what we're trying to do again, is, hey, can we break that generational cycle of just because this is where you came from, that doesn't mean that's where you're vetted.

[09:31] Ryan: Exactly. And we will let others experiences impact our beliefs, which then impacts our behavior. And that throws off all your potential, limit yourself and all that kind of stuff then rolls in and is out play when it doesn't have to be, you know, going back to the stress component of it, if I know the areas that I'm either good or bad at handling when it comes to stress, I can then set up, you know, the mechanisms or put the people around me to be able to process it. And I think so many times athletes automatically go to, I've got to lay on the couch and talk to, you know, a psychiatrist or psychologist. And that's not it. You don't need to go to that extreme. There's nothing wrong with it, but you don't have to always go there. It could just be, you know, like, a lot of our athletes still reach out to us before games, and if they're going through something to, hey, this is what's going on. How do I work through it? And it's that voice that's a reminder of, hey, Cheney, this is who you are. This is probably how you're processing this. But here are the other aspects that could be at play here. Do you think some of these other things, you know, inside the locker room might be giving you the perception that this is happening when that's not really happening? You know, let's look at all the other, you know, the higher level, the big picture aspects that could be at play and, you know, that could be what's causing your perception of, you know, this issue. And a lot of times it's just working through that and it doesn't really take all that long. Again, it's not an hour session on the couch, you know, with someone just sitting there listening, going, mm hmm. Right. It's that conversation and somebody that gets who you are that can help put you in that, the right perspective so that you can then go out there and execute and be that best, you know, the physical performance possible.

[11:49] Cheney: Right. Well, and we've talked about Caitlin Clark, too, and just took the emotions at times getting the best of her. And I can't remember if it was last night or maybe two nights ago. One of the most recent games, she had gotten fouled and didn't, didn't get called. And she's kind of hemming and hawing a little bit, but then two or three of her teammates are kind of corralling her and like, hey, hey, we're okay. Just dial it down. You know, come, come down off the ledge a little bit. So she's got that close knit group that are. Then they know and they're helping her be able to realize, all right, big picture here. We need you on the court. You get another technical foul and, you know, you're not only off the court, but you may be suspended for a few games. So that's reeled us in a little bit.

[12:44] Ryan: Yeah, I think there's a trend, too, that develops, right? I mean, if you look at the elite, and I'm not just talking about athletes, you look at the elite GM's, the elite coaches, and you take a coach k, a Dean Smith, a Bill Belichick, you take a Phil Jackson, these coaches that had sustained success, and it's not just them knowing the X's and O's better than the rest of the coaches. Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of times they get credited with, oh, they just know the game better than anybody else and they're this game genius. And that's not it at all. I mean, there's a reason that Phil Jackson won with Jordan, one with Kobe. There's a reason that Belichick went on that run with Brady and was able to bring in these guys that had that reputation of, you know, they're unmanageable. Like a randy moss coming in and all of a sudden he's performing at the level that, you know, he was when he was a rookie. You know, Coach K gets these tough personalities, Dean. You know, these coaches that just sustain, you know, Saban, Kirby smart. They're out there. And it's not that they know their sport better than anybody else. It's that they know their team better than anybody else. They know their players better than the players know themselves. They know what buttons to push. They know how they're processing stress, how to, you know, integrate into their life in order to give them that support that they need so that, you know, they're almost more of a parental type figure, friend, you know, big brother, mentor than they are. Hey, these are the X's and O's, and this is what you need to do better. And one of the things that I think we add the most value in is being able to measure those three specific stress areas but it's not just that. It's the whole 20 different mindset, performance indicators, so that you know who to get on your team, you know, the areas that they're going to thrive in and the areas that they're going to struggle in. And it's having that data so that you can put them in the right position or start to expose them to the things in a slow, methodical manner that they're going to be dealing with as the stage gets bigger. You have the data to be able to do that properly, so you don't have to be that expert. You can rely on people that deal with this so that you get all the glory. Like these. Like these, you know, top level coaches. Great. Talking about stress. Another episode of Shift happens down. I'm Ryan. This is Cheney. And we'll see you next time.

In this episode we connect with professional runner Logan Jolly who takes us through her 26 State High School Titles to her time on the Clemson University and University of Arkansas track team to her last college race where she made her dream of becoming a professional runner happen. Now sponsored by Asics Running, Logan shares the mindset, challenges and her perspective from her life as a high achiever who happens to run.

[email protected]

www.successbeyondgameday.com

[00:05] Ryan: Welcome to shift Happens athlete Mindset Hacks, where we talk about everything, mindset development, taking lessons from the college and pro athletes, coaches and teams we get to work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. And today, Cheney, we've got really kind of a special treat because normally people just listen to you and I go back and forth around set and athletes and things that are going on, current events, you know, psychological studies and all of that fun stuff. But today, and I'm really excited to get into this one because we're meeting and we're talking to Logan Jolly and she is a professional runner. So if you need mental toughness in any sport, being a professional runner is definitely the sport. But she's from Inman, South Carolina. She began her athletic journey at Spartanburg Christian Academy where she won 26 SC ISA state championships, and that's in four years. I'm assuming. We didn't repeat and reclassify a number of times, so it's pretty impressive. But she was also a three time Gatorade cross country player of the year for South Carolina. She continued her success in college, attending Clemson University for her undergraduate degree and then later to the University of Arkansas where she earned two master's degrees and became a DMR national champion, NCAA collegiate record holder in the four by 1500 meters relay, NCAA indoor team champion and three time All American. She also holds the steeplechase school record at Arkansas. Now she's running professionally for Asics. Logan recently competed in the track and field Olympic trials where she made it to the final round and finished 10th in the United States for the women's steeplechase. By the end of the season, she had reached 34th in the world rankings for her event, even setting an american record in the 2000 meters steeplechase and winning a major international race in Hungary. While she has accomplished many of her goals and dreams, Logan's true passion is in using her talents to bring glory to God and to inspire others along the way. Logan, man, this is an impressive bio, but welcome to shift happens.

[02:43] Logan: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk mindset, running and anything in between.

[02:48] Cheney: And that's that. 26, right? State championships? That was not a typo. That's 26 state championships.

[02:57] Logan: Yes. So it is 26. I will say it was in seven years. So because I was in the private school league, I could run in 6th grade on the varsity squad, but it is 26 individual state championships. By the time I was a senior, I was winning cross country, the 800, the 1600, the 3200, and then possibly a relay in there as well. So it was. They were starting to stack up by the end of my career.

[03:24] Cheney: Absolutely. I mean, you had to build your own case for all the trophies and medals and everything, right?

[03:29] Logan: Yes. I learned from an early age what pressure felt like and having a target on your back because I won as a 6th grader. And so I soon got put at the top of the state, and everyone wanted to beat me until I was out of there.

[03:43] Cheney: Well, a lot of times we'll joke about, you know, runners. You know, for me in particular, I was running because somebody was chasing me. You literally had people chasing you and still do.

[03:54] Logan: Yeah. It's always running around, running from people, running to catch people. It's always a chase.

[03:59] Cheney: There you go. How did you initially get into running and then how did you eventually end up as a professional athlete?

[04:08] Logan: It's been a long journey now. I've been running for over half my life, maybe even two thirds of my life. I started as a young seven year old. My PE teacher, Tanya Allen, recognized that I was running pretty well in our presidential fitness test in my blue jeans and tennis shoes. And so she had the eye for it and told my parents, hey, maybe try this sport. And luckily, at the time, my dad was still kind of. He ran in high school, my mom ran in high school, and he was running still. I think he might have even been training for a marathon. So he started to let me tag along on a couple runs. Then I kind of liked it. So we jumped in a couple local, like, track meets for the youth, enjoyed those. I ran a five k with my dad. Of course, he didn't want me to take off on my own until we got to the three mile mark, and he was like, all right, you can go. And I was gone before he finished talking because I wanted to run ahead. So I started to enjoy it really young. But we went to a state USA track and field meet, and I ended up getting put into a race where they combine different age divisions, because just for efficiency purposes, they were like, well, run, everybody together. But the winners will be determined by your age group. And I didn't realize what that meant. So now I was competing against all the age groups. It didn't matter that they were older than me. And I was running pretty well coming down the home stretch, and a girl passed me at the finish line by, like, a foot. I didn't have any time to respond, got beat. And that day I decided, this sport's not for me. And I retired at the age of seven. So I was pretty competitive then, but my parents didn't push me. They were like, if you don't want to do it, that's fine. Until I got up to the age that I can compete for my school, which was 6th grade, and I decided I was going to give it another try. So I signed up for cross country, started training in the summer. And then I realized I could run or I could play competitive cheerleading. So I was like, I'm going to switch sports. But my parents said, you already committed to cross country, so you at least need to go to the first week of practice and then you can decide. And so it was a fight to get there. I remember crying on the bike as my mom or crying while I was riding. My mom was on the bike struggling through a mile or 2 miles, but my parents told me I needed to uphold that commitment. I got to the first week of practice and I loved it. Once I could run with people and I could kind of compete. The older girls took me in. It was just, it was the sport for me. So I said no to competitive cheerleading, joined the cross country team, and that was really the start of my career. Since then, I've been running pretty much all year round for the rest of my life. So that brought me to through my high school years. I ran from 6th grade to my senior year, and by the end of my high school years, I was running well enough to get recruited to running college. And I decided to go to Clemson University for my undergraduate degree. I thought I would be there until the end, but as Covid kind of shook the world up and kind of just gave me a step back to realize, hey, maybe I could push myself a little bit harder, try a new environment and get the most out of my years in college. So I stepped out in faith and put myself in the transfer portal, which is a crazy thing these days. I really, I loved Clemson, so it was hard to leave, but I really felt like the Lord was calling me into something else. So I ended up at Arkansas. I never visited, just told them I was coming and they were generous enough to give me a scholarship. So I spent my last two years of college eligibility at Arkansas getting my grad degree. And I, because of COVID I ended up having six years in college, which worked out for me because by the end of that, I was at the best shape of my life. And my last race in college, at the NCAA championship, I ran the best race I've ever run and was able to claim an all american spot, which kind of opened the doors for professional running. That was always my goal and my dream, but in a way, only God knows how he planned it so that it happened on the last race of six years of college. One of the bright people were there to see that race. It qualified me for the national race for the seniors in the US, which is even more exposure. So just opened so many doors where I was able to sign with an agent and eventually sign with ASICs to continue running at this level and support a really awesome brand.

[08:52] Ryan: So you were going into that last race thinking, this is my last race. You had no idea the professional running was going to be a thing. How were you preparing for that mentally? Because a lot of athletes, there's not a ton of thought of what am I going to do after my sport? Cause a lot of them don't know when it's gonna end. And you know all that. So how did you prepare mentally knowing at that point that that was gonna be your, your final race?

[09:27] Logan: That's a great question and I honestly don't think I ever realized that, um, in my mind, I always wanted to be a professional athlete and I didn't know how it was gonna happen. I was just gonna run hard and, you know, like, leave it up to the Lord to see what happened with that. Um, so I knew it was my last race in college, but I always had faith, like, there's got to be something more. This can't be the end. So I guess I was either in denial or a little bit of ignorance, but I just really wanted to go run and run my very best. And I kind of was just not going to let it be my last race, which worked out in my favor. And maybe that's not for everyone, but I think if you get caught up in the fact that, oh, if I don't run well, then the whole world's falling apart, then you probably won't run well. So just being able to, like, run hard, run my best, run free in that last race, make the most of it, um, it really opened doors later on.

[10:23] Cheney: It took six years to get to that perfect race. Right, right. So there was a lot of time on the track or on the course in preparation. And we know preparation usually is the key to success, uh, with your sport being running, which takes a tremendous amount of willpower for many people to, to do, let alone it at the. The level that you do it. Right. How did you approach practice and preparation and what advice would you give to younger runners?

[10:51] Logan: Running is a very mental sport, as you mentioned earlier, and it's year round, people always ask me when's your off season. And I'm like, I took two weeks off, but I'm back running again. You can't take a lot of time off. You have. You've got to run six or seven days a week, at least at my level, to just stay competitive. So practice is the day to day grind that gets you to the race. You cannot just show up and race. It's not a skill sport. It will show. You've got to put in the work. So I've learned early on, like, consistency is the key. I've got to prepare my mind, my body, all of that in practice if I want to do it in a race. So my week to week looks a little. Our day to day looks a little bit different, and not every day is a hard workout. Um, but on those hard workout days, I treat it as almost, if it's a race day, um, I prepare the same, I warm up is the same, I try to eat similar foods. Um, I really work on my mindset as if I'm in a race on those days and push my body physically. And then the other days, I mean, I. It might be an easy day, recovery day, but I have to do that with intent and purpose. So I think that preparation is everything you're doing to get ready for your competition. It's got to be with intent and purpose, and then you've got to be.

[12:07] Ryan: Consistent with it because you've been, like, all acc, all sec, and arkansas, we've found out, is probably one of the top track and field programs in the country. So you didn't go to just a slouch. You may have elevated your game a little bit, but all seC, first team, all american, national champion, you've been around runners in two power conferences, right? And there's probably some that had more talent than you but didn't achieve the same level of success. So, in your opinion, what do you think separates talent and success from just being talented and not achieving that success?

[12:53] Logan: It's interesting at this level because I always have my eyes forward on who's ahead of me and who's better than me. And sometimes I forget, like, I'm pretty talented. The Lord has gifted me about how I've been able to get here. But I also like to think, like, it takes a lot of hard work, a lot of consistent practice. Like, we were just talking about years and years. So it isn't just talent. I think to get to this level, you've got to have some amount of talent, but most of these girls or women or even the men at this level, too. I mean, it takes, it takes a lot, a lot of years and a lot of practice, but I think it's those that really have their mindset on the goal ahead. There's been a lot of people, especially when I switched from the college years to professional years, there were some really talented people that just decided that's it. That was all I wanted, and I achieved my goal of being a collegiate runner, and they moved on. So part of it is just outlasting people. Having your eyes focused on the goal ahead and putting your head down and getting, getting to it, not getting derailed or giving up on those goals. You've just got to, if you're going to keep working hard, getting a little bit better, eventually you're going to get there. I think that was kind of my path to professional running. It did take a full six years, and some people, it doesn't. Most people, it's four, some five. And thankfully, we had the COVID year to get me that extra year to get me here, but I never gave up on the goal. And I think that move from Clemson to the University of Arkansas, like you said, they, they were the best at the time. They had just completed the triple crown, which means they had won cross country national championship, indoor national championship, and outdoor national championship all within the year 2019. So they were like the dominant program when I, when I came in. So I surrounded myself with the best and said, we're going to do this. We're going all in or we're going to be done, I guess. So. I think just like really chasing off your goals, never giving up on yourself. And those goals, eventually you're going to get to where you need to go.

[14:59] Ryan: Yeah, Cheney. I've heard two things there, right? I heard a lot of patience. We live in a society that's immediate gratification. And I, you know, you talked about, you know, the running as a 6th grader with the high school team, and then you have six years in college. Right? That's a lot of patience. And a lot of times, you know, you're in a sport where it's not just an off season like a football player, you know, lifting and getting stronger. And now all of a sudden, you're accomplishing all these goals. I mean, it, it takes a lot of dedication and patience. But then, so tell us a little bit about how, how did you learn how to deal with and be patient? And then the second part is, you know, we always talk, you know, the circle that you surround yourself with can either elevate you or it can bring you down. Right. And so you make the conscious choice to elevate when you went to Arkansas, not knowing what would happen. You didn't even visit the campus. Right. So not knowing. Can I hang with these, with these ladies, with this team? Am I good enough? So how did you wrestle with the am I good enough? I'm always looking forward, comparing myself aspect of really dealing, moving from high school to college, but then college, from Clemson to Arkansas and now to the pro side of things.

[16:40] Logan: Yes, two great questions. I'll try to cover them both with the patience factor. I think, like I said, I've always wanted to run professionally, but it only became a reality towards the end of my career. And so it was like a long ahead goal. Like it's something I'm shooting for, but it's not something I necessarily thought about every day because that can seem like, oh, that's so far away. So I had these like other goals to get there, like stepping stones. So as a 6th grader, I was just running for fun. And then it suddenly became, hey, I could do this in college and maybe get a scholarship. Then the faster I run, the more scholarship you could possibly get or the better university. So then that became a goal. And then once I got to Clemson, there were a couple girls that were older and better than me and accomplishing some things I would want to accomplish by the end of my career. So they took me under their wing and I started kind of following that trajectory to become an all american, all ACc, all sec, um, so it almost became like just a stepping stone basis to get to the goal of becoming a professional runner. But I didn't want to focus on that so much that I lost track of what I needed to do in the present to get there. And even now, as a professional athlete, we work on four year cycles around the Olympics. So I'm now entering into a goal of making the Olympic team four years from now. And that seems really daunting. Four years is a long ways away. And so I'm trying even now to figure out, okay, how do we get there without getting overwhelmed with the fact that we have four years to make something happen? And if it doesn't happen in a 3000 meters race, my career is not a disaster. I mean, I can't put so much pressure on it that that carries the weight of my success, but also that's where I want to get. So I really think now I'm working backwards to get there in four years. What do I need to accomplish now? So that when we're there. We're ready and prepared to do whatever we can on that day to make it happen. I pride myself on the progress I've made through the years. I've been able to get a little bit better every year, and I think, as you said, that's about surrounding yourself with the right people. If I would have come to Arkansas out of high school, I don't know if I would be worth where I am at right now because the level of competition was almost too good for where I was. So I'm very thankful with the people that were around me counseling me and praying to the Lord for some guidance that I ended up at Clemson because that was a great environment for me at that time. I had a coach who was going to give me an individualized approach at a couple older girls, but someone who was, like, mostly in reach, where I could see where I needed to get, not so far ahead that I'm like, I'll never be that good. And with running, you can easily get hurt, too, if you run too many miles too fast or push yourself too hard. And so I think me being able to learn that through the years at Clemson on how hard to push myself, get a little bit better, train my body a little bit harder, so that when it came time to come to Arkansas, I was ready for that level of competition. I was confident enough to put myself in the mix, not get overwhelmed that these girls are so much better. And I think just putting on an Arkansas jersey, my confidence went through the roof. I was like, I get to represent this university. These girls are the best in the nation. I'm on the team. The coach wanted me here, so I belong. Those things came at the right time, but I don't think that necessarily would have happened as a little 18 year old coming in as a freshman. So I think it's important to surround yourself with people better than you, but you got to know where you're at so that you're not overwhelming yourself with too much greatness at one time because you don't want to play the part when you don't belong necessarily, but you can a little bit because you'll get there and you'll grow so that one day you're standing on the line, you're seeing people that you, you dreamed about being on a team with, and they're your teammates, and you're just as good, if not better than them.

[20:36] Ryan: What's the biggest difference now between the high level, you know, running at Arkansas, right. And now running professionally?

[20:44] Logan: In some ways, there's not that much of a difference in others. I'm starting to learn, like, this is a whole new world. Um, the running and the training isn't that much different. Um, a little bit harder, obviously, a little bit longer. I can push myself a little bit more. Um, but it's more seen in the recovery, the planning, um, the scheduling of the year. That's where I'm noticing the biggest difference. Um, we're all talented at this level. We all ran together in college. But you've got to find a way to one up people now, and you can only run so much without your body shutting down. So, honestly, at this level, we probably all train similarly, but it's all in the recovery and the small things that elevate your performance. So I've learned very quickly that I need more recovery. Napping is a part of the job. Sometimes going to bed early, what you're eating, those are the small things. And in college, my schedule was handed to me. I hopped on a bus or a plane. I had a hotel. All of that was taken care of. Now I'm the one that is planning what my year looks like, what races I want to run, and I've got to book my hotel, my flight, and I also have to fund some of those things. And so that's the part that I've grown up and realized, like, this is my job. It's no longer a hobby or just something I do part time. But taking ownership of that elevates, I think, your performance, because once you have some skin in the game, you're really working for it. I think it means a little bit more, and that levels me up for the professional world.

[22:15] Cheney: Peel some of the layers of the onion back a little bit. We've been talking about running and that being what you get to do. Who's Logan outside of the sport of running? And when did you figure that out?

[22:31] Logan: That's a great question, especially for athletes. I think a lot of times athletes get wrapped up in their sport, and that's who they are, and that sport isn't going to last forever. And so when it's over, you suddenly are like, who am I? What do I do in this world? And I've been very conscious of that reality, and so I've tried really hard to not make myself Logan the runner. Like, I want to be a person to people and not just a runner, but I have learned that's kind of who I am in this moment, and so I can't completely disassociate in college, I like to play the game of in class, I would try to see how long I could get into the semester without anyone knowing that I was a runner or an athlete. And sometimes now people ask me what my job is, and I'm almost a little bit like, it's embarrassing, like I would just run for a living. So I want to take pride in that because this is the crazy opportunity the Lord's given me. So I do want to be proud of the opportunity I have and that I am a runner right now, but I also internally don't want to make that all who I am. So right now, I do run every day, and that's my job. But we host a small group. I'm involved in my church. I help out with the university sometimes. And so in those moments, I try not to be Logan the runner. I try to just serve other people, be a friend, just enjoy life, because that's kind of what the life after running is going to look like. So I don't want everything to be wrapped up in the sport that I do. I think it's been a process of learning that through the years, and my side of it is almost being proud of being a runner and balancing that better than hiding it. But I think you can always enjoy your sport and be proud of who you are doing that without making that exactly who you are.

[24:21] Cheney: Right. So we talked a lot about being an athlete that uses their sport, right, like you said, versus the sport using them. So how are you running to create opportunities outside of athletics?

[24:35] Logan: That's a great question. Another one that we always worry about as athletes is what are you going to do after your sport? Or who are you outside of the sport, like we just talked about? And I've always thought, like, who's going to take, who's going to give me a job one day? When I say, oh, I haven't worked a day, I've just been running like I'd haven't used my degrees. But it's interesting how I can try to combine the two things that I've learned in my academic years into my running world. I did engineering, so it doesn't completely overlap with running, but I've made some Excel and Google sheets checklist, and I track different things. And I think you can always relay, like the planning, the scheduling. I have to build a team around me. I mean, those are life skills that I'm going to have to use later in life. But also I try to use the connection I'm making with other teammates, other competitors. I mean, there's so many people I'm getting to meet across the world, across the US, and even people that I get to just share my story with and make connections with that, I think make a long lasting impact. Rather than it all being about me running around a track and setting prs and winning races, those are always great. But I think it means a lot more when I get a message from a young girl who's asking about running or who wants to run in college and get a scholarship. Those interactions almost mean more sometimes than getting to run a race and run a pr, because I think the outreach of using the sport to reach other people, that means more, that has a lasting impact. And those are the things I'm going to remember later, later on in life, rather than. I have no clue what time I ran in a race in 2015.

[26:22] Ryan: I think a lot of times we view professional athletes as non human, right? They perform athletically, they're almost robotic, right. We put them on this pedestal and we forget that at the end of the day, they're real people, right? Help us, you know, humanize you a little bit. What are some of the things that you struggle with? Even if it's just day to day mindset that, those sorts of things.

[26:47] Logan: I'll be completely honest, I still get extremely nervous before almost all my races. I think I always thought, like, I'm getting nervous in high school at the state championship. How will I ever make it? And my professional career at the Olympic trials. And some days those, uh, it did seem daunting leading up to Olympic trials this year of, like, how am I going to handle the nerves? Um, so that does not go away. Even at the professional, um, ranks. I think I've learned to manage it a little bit more, but it's still hard to eat on race day, and I'm really nervous and quiet. Um, but it's encouraging in a weird sense that when I get to the call room for the track, track meets, where all the girls come together before the race, we're all really quiet and nervous in our own way, and I think we're all dealing with the same kind of nerves. And so what you see on the track, the fierceness, the competitiveness, the build up to that, the 30 minutes before, know all those girls are really quiet and we're in our bubble and we're nervous. Um, so I think that part is just normal. That's part of the, that's part of sport. And so part of life, um, is just being able to control your mindset. Uh, for me, this past year really was trying to prepare for the biggest race of my life at the Olympic trials, making sure I was having intent and purpose in every day, because some days it was really weighty to feel that I've got this big race. I'm trying to qualify for the olympics that only come every four years, but thankfully, I have a great support system. My husband has reminded me that my identity isn't in this sport. It's not in running. It's not in any result, but it's in Christ. And I think that has kept me grounded and reminded me who I am outside of the sport, which is what we've talked about already. I think you can't get too focused on outcomes, but there's so much to learn in the journey and the process to get there that if you hold on to those foundational thoughts about yourself and who the Lord says you are, that's what conquers those fears.

[28:47] Ryan: Brian, what advice would you give to high school students? As you mentioned, some of them reach out to you. And as they transition to college or just the workforce after high school, maybe some advice that you wish you would have had when you were their age.

[29:03] Logan: Something we've even talked about already is it's okay to set big goals and dreams that seem a little bit scary. It's okay if it doesn't happen, but the pride is in the process. I think there's so much that you gain from just going after those goals that even if you don't get them, you're going to be a better person at the end of it. And so that can apply to going to college or even the workforce. If you see something that you want in terms of goals and dreams, go ahead and set the goal. Figure out what it's going to take to get there and start working towards it. Because I think at the end of that process, wherever it ends, you'll be proud of what you did and what you tried for, rather than just dismissing it, saying, I'll never get there. So I very much encourage younger athletes, younger students, um, to not get stuck in just the day to day life. Set some big goals, challenge yourself, and I think you'll be proud of who you become.

[29:58] Ryan: I've got one more question for you here, and then I'll let Cheney wrap it up for us. But what, what was it about ASics that made you feel like this is the, uh. This is who I want to align with? What. What do you. What do you enjoy about them and being with them?

[30:15] Logan: First of all, the sports marketing man, or guy, I guess, at AsiCs, he is very personable and I had a couple conversations with him throughout the process of deciding which brand I was going to work with. And every time he assured me that this was about me and not about them, they were providing me with an opportunity to continue my career so that I can be the best I want to be. And it wasn't about them using me. And then I. Oh, you're not running. Well, we'll see you later. And even it's. It's remained true throughout the last couple years as I represented them, they've said, we want to support you as long as we can and as long as you want to run because we believe in you as a person. So I think Asics really, I felt like seen as a person and not just a runner as we've talked about. I really appreciated that. And they've. They've wanted to get to know my family. They want to know who I am. And that means a lot more than any price tag that someone can throw at you or gear or all the opportunities. I think the relationships you can make in this sport, in life is what's going to carry you. And I felt that with Asics, and I see that in their company as well. And so it's not just one man that works with me, but it's their whole company up the line.

[31:33] Cheney: Logan, you've taken a lot of time. We appreciate you carving out some time for us today. How can people follow you right now?

[31:42] Logan: I would say Instagram is probably the best way. My Instagram handle is. Logan, jolly simple enough, but I tend to post things on there when I travel for races and updates and recaps, especially during the outdoor season. So like April to July, August, pretty much every time I race, I'm posting a recap and you can follow along that journey. Maybe one day we'll get a website or something going, but for now, Instagram is the best way to just keep up with my running career. And every, every day I'm between.

[32:15] Ryan: Logan, we appreciate you. Appreciate you being so open with us, everybody. Here's another wrap on another episode of Shift happens. Until next time.

The NCAA gets it right with this top men's basketball player symposium. In this episode we breakdown the ins and outs of player development.

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www.successbeyondgameday.com

Ryan: Welcome to shift happens athlete Mindset hacks, where we talk everything mindset development, taking lessons from the college and pro athletes, coaches and teams we get to work alongside. I'm Ryan Shockner. This is Cheney Robinson. And today we're talking about the NCAA elite basketball event that they had where they brought in Cheney. It was 14 or 15 basketball players and really talk to them about leadership development, decision making strategies, advice from former NBA players to, you know, financial literacy to working with agents and really a cool sort of event for a lot of these players that, you know, may get a shot at going to that next level.

Cheney: Yeah, good article. And we've talked about this. You've spoken to many, many colleges and universities in person. Zoom so many times. Again, your experience in college. Mine, mine too. And not a slight to our respective colleges and universities, but a lot of the times this kind of stuff is just a check and know the box of, hey, we've hit on this, but we hadn't really talked about it or unpacked it and given you some, some action items to, to do for you to be able to understand and lean into this and figure, figure this out rather than just now you're thrown into this and you better learn it or you better have a group of folks that you trust explicitly to handle this kind of stuff for you.

Ryan: Well, a lot of times the tools that are used to teach athletes this stuff are in that lecture room type style or I, you know, log on to this portal and watch a video on these topics, whether it's the financial literacy or working with an agent or any of that type of stuff. And that's not really, you know, the best environment for an athlete to learn it. I mean, you, they, you think they're active, they move around. I mean, this is what embodies being an athlete. And anytime you get them stagnant and having to, you know, watch something or learn, right, get that knowledge, it, you know, it just, their mind starts to wander. And that's what we saw when we started working with, you know, you have that 10% of athletes that pay attention during this type of stuff and you don't give them that experience and teach them in a way that is going to help them one learn, but then apply the knowledge that you are teaching them.

Cheney: Yeah. And you've talked about, too, that until it's relevant, it's not real, you know, until it is meaningful to them where they are, they're not. It's okay. I'm just trying to get through the day, right. This is not important to me right now, I don't. This is not something I have to deal with right now.

Ryan: A couple of the things they did, right. Is they had people that lived the experience, right. That have been there before for them, where a lot of times in some of the life skills stuff at the universities, you're having people teach certain things that they've never experienced. Right. And so it's not that the information is bad. It's just that there's a lack of belief or a lack of trust between the athlete and the person presenting it. Right. Another thing I think they did well is they you. They brought in experts in certain areas that weren't trying to ask them to be a client. Right. So they brought in a financial literacy person. They brought in agents to talk to them that weren't out there soliciting them to, hey, you need to work with me. So it was a truly an educational experience to where they could ask questions without having to be on guard of. All right, now, what is this person trying to get out of me, right. Do they just want a piece, my future earnings or what? You know, what's their angle? They could truly let their guard down because they knew that threat wasn't there. You know, I think that article talks about three aspects or, you know, lessons that the athletes walked away with, right? And the first one is the game. Basketball is a tool to direct you to different points in your life. And this is, I agree 100% with this. Right. Well, the problem is a lot of the athletes that are playing basketball, playing football don't actually believe that. Right? And this is where we talk about that. Who am I? That self identity, that self awareness, and why it's so key. And you hear a lot of the pro athletes talking about, I was used by the game of basketball, baseball, football, track, whatever it is, I was used by the sport instead of being the athlete that says, yeah, I played the sport, but I used the sport in order to do this, this, this, and this. And that's where we need to get these athletes. That regardless of the platform that you play on the level of the platform, the notoriety, the press, the media that you get, you have an opportunity to use the sport, use the platform to make connections, build relationships, and a lot of other things that will help you later on in life. And that's what we're talking about. We need to use the sport in order to get out of life, not view the sport as the only thing that is going to allow us to get what we want out of life. And it starts at that you know, the 20 difference performance indicators and, you know, helping these athletes identify who am I? What are my strengths that I bring to life, that I use in athletics, that I can use in business, that I can use in relationships that are going to make me successful, and helping them form that identity of self so that they can then, you know, view their sport, use their sport, perform at higher levels because they have that clarity.

Cheney: Well, what's so unfortunate is this starts now, at even earlier ages, where these young athletes are. This. That's what you are. It's who you are. And unfortunately, that's all you are. Right. And that's what's being ingrained into them from day one, from the first time they start performing and participating in athletics. And that's your out. That's going to be you. That's your livelihood. That's how you're going to make your living. And then heaven forbid something happens. Now it's gone. Now what? Right.

Ryan: I.

Cheney: And I think that's. You're not going to mention this, but I will. That's where I think your book is. Why it's a bestseller is because it. It helps to be able to talk through, hey, let's do. Let's do these parallel things over here. Let's understand who we are and why we are not. This is not what we're playing is, again, it's a tool, right. It's part of who we are. It's nothing all encompassing of who we are.

Ryan: I think the larger point just in this one, you know, in their first point that they take away is that right now, you as an athlete have skills that you are really, really good at or weaker in, that are allowing you to perform at the athletic level. Right. Brain mindset, skills that are allowing you to perform that just because you're using those skills in athletics, they can be used in other aspects of life, and it's being able to identify that. But a lot of times we, you know, our experiences drive our beliefs and our beliefs drive our behavior and the experiences that we have growing up, how people talked to us, how teachers, how, you know, mentors, how family laid out what is possible for us, those beliefs, and then those people that, you know, their mentors, their teachers, their family, you know, laid out some. Some experiences that affected the belief of what we could become. And so it's bringing them to the core of identifying, hey, these are your strengths. We can now show you where they can apply outside of your sport. But it's starting with that breaking that we talked about, breaking the cycle. It's breaking that mental cycle of, hey, this is all I can achieve, and this is the only avenue that I have to achieve it. But then it gets into the lesson number two, right? This takeaway number two, where it says, what you got here won't get you to where you want to go. And that's talking about, you know, that knowledge and then the applied knowledge. And so just because you got information and you sat and heard something, it's giving them the platform or the opportunity to apply that to their life, their reality, their scenario, and doing that in a way that they can get feedback, right, that they can learn and they can get coached on it without occupying so much of their time. Because we already know there's 168 hours in a week, 70 already taken up with schoolwork and going to classes and practice time, that doesn't count extra practice time, that doesn't count eating, that doesn't count sleeping, that doesn't count social life. It doesn't count Xbox or whatever you do, you know, decompress. It doesn't count for any of that. Right. So we already have such a condensed timeframe that we need to operate on in order to have success that how can you not just take the lessons you learned, but apply them in new ways, in creative ways so that you can start to cement those changes of experiences to, to impact the behavior or impact the belief and then impact the pavement.

Cheney: Yeah. When it's. In looking at the article, one of the things players to be successful in professional careers, characteristics like maturity, self awareness and social awareness are crucial. And, I mean, she's hit the nail on the head there with those three in particular. Right. And the big, I like the self awareness because now if we, we've got awareness of where we are, the strengths, opportunities for growth, those, we know what those things are now we can start to, you know, we can attack them, we can go after them and strengthen the strengths and we can improve in those areas that need that growth. But it's. And again, what got you here won't, is what you, what got you here won't get you to where you want to go, you know, very simple illustration for me. I used to, I used tree Trump as a bat, basically, in high school, right? And then I got to college and I was like, oh. So I had to shorten swing. I had to use a smaller mat just to be able to perform. So again, physically, I had some things, some changes that needed to be made to get me where I wanted to go to get some playing time, right. But then also mentally too. There's still that, that constant battle of, am I good enough to be here? And it's that positive reinforcement. Yeah, you're good enough to be here. Now, once I finally got that first hit, then there was still that battle, but it wasn't as much of a battle like getting that first hit was like, okay, I'm here now, let's go. But there's, you still deal with that, of, how do I. I'm here now. I've got to ramp. You got to ramp everything up. And I talk about it here, the physical side, the mental side, the social side, all of it has got to, you got to step it up in all three levels.

Ryan: A great example is with the combine guys that we work with, and their talent is good enough to get them to the lead. But then it's the mindset, it's teaching them how to apply the lessons that we teach them to the interview, to acting as a professional. And it's that applied piece of it that then is going to help them get that contract, number two. But when it hits on, you have to.

Cheney: It's not just getting there, right. The goal is, let's stay here. Let's get that 2nd, 3rd contract. That's what we're, that's what we're striving for, and that's where we know, okay, I've really got to dig, dig into this thing on a lot of different levels to be able to get where I want to go.

Ryan: And that's what they hit on. The takeaway, the last takeaway, number three, is think the long game. Now, the example they use here is your financial literacy, long game and that sort of thing. But really, you need to start thinking the long game as you're a high school athlete that's being recruited, then that college athlete that maybe gets to the next level and then how you transition to that next level. You know, there's some great examples of young high school athletes that we work with that they were getting some d one offers, but it wasn't that, you know, Duke, Carolina, you know, the big power conference offer, and you already have a shortened career.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: The timeframe, once you leave high school, if you're going to the next level, it just gets shorter and shorter to when you're not playing that sport anymore. Right. So it's like the hourglass and the sands coming down, more like that. But you can still think the long game with it. So even though that hourglass and the sands coming down and the length of time you can play your athletic career, it's all right. What is my ultimate goal of my college experience that I need to, you know, if I want to get to that next level or I want to play at these universities? What step can you strategically take now to set you up best to do that? And it may be going to that high level junior college program, which a couple of our guys said, hey, this is the best option because I'm going to play against one. I'm going to play, I'm going to play against really good talent. And because I'm playing at this high level junior college program now, the scouts are going to come and they're going to be watching. And so it's, you know, it's thinking even out of high school playing and thinking the long game. And then when you get to that college level, it's once you, you know, what relationships am I going to build here that are going to help me whenever my career is done? And it's thinking the long game. It's thinking the long game as you're going into your pro career of how do I get with the right team coming out of, you know, whatever draft I'm going into or free agency, how do I get there? And then how do I stay there? How do I interact in the locker room? How do I fit in with the different dynamics that are in the locker room? And since now I'm staying here, what does life after? What do I want that to look like and how do I position myself right now? And so while, yes, there's a financial literacy aspect to thinking the long game, right. It's also thinking the long game in terms of your career because you never know how long you're going to play. And that could be on the positive side, hall of Fame, pro athletic career or olympic career. Or it could be on the negative side on, like, I went through with an injury that made the decision for me. And so it's being able to start thinking the long game and they all feed into each other. Right. Which is kind of the cool thing I think about this article, is knowing who you are, your strengths, weaknesses, that, that true self, that self awareness, learning the lessons but then applying them. And once you change the beliefs, right, because now you have the experiences that change the beliefs, you start thinking differently, and you change the behavior on some of this decisions you're going to make and some of the moves you're going to make on that chessboard as it relates to your life, your playing career.

Cheney: Right. But, and you think about the point you made, too, of you got to start thinking long game in high school. Now where I didn't, you didn't, right. But we didn't have social media, we didn't have nil, we didn't have the transfer portal that we had to deal with coming out of high school, trying to take that next step. Right. And even if we did have, we didn't have the training on how to think long term anyway. So that's where I think what we're, what we're doing enabled in the athletes that we get a chance to work with is helping them to start thinking bigger picture, start strategizing, looking long term. And again, it's that parallel path of, hey, this is a little bit of who you are. I mean, this is what you do, right? But this is not all of who you are. And again, using the tool rather than the tool using you.

Ryan: So this is a great event. I think the key, you know, the NCAA did a great job on this one. So the elite basketball event, the key now is how do you replicate this with more than 14 individuals at a time? I think we've got a good idea on it, but that's really the trick, right. If you really want big impact, that's at the power conference all the way down to the d three level. How do you implement this in a way that can better your athletes, have them perform on the field or court better, but also perform better in life in general, which then feeds the cycle of they're happier that they went to the university, the donations come in. It's the circle of life in that academic world that you're helping to foster. But it's how do you actually accomplish the mission of that student athlete development role aspect and do it more effectively, more efficiently so that again, these athletes have more success.

Cheney: Yep, that's exactly right. And making it a positive student athlete experience. Right. So that when they're done, whatever, you know, I mean, you can be Van Wilder and it'd be nine years or whatever it was. It's that speaking positively about the university or the college once they're finished. Right. And it goes back to exactly what you said. It's being involved in the contributing and giving back, whether financially or just time, because that's just as valuable for these athletes as we talked about here in this article. You had folks that have been there and done that, that came back and talked about their experiences. And I'll reference it again, your book, you've got athletes that are talking about their experiences, good and bad, right?

Ryan: Yeah. So great job, NCAA. With this event, we need to replicate it. I'm Ryan. This is Cheney. Shift happens. Mindset hacks for athletes. And we'll talk to you next time.

The reality of the athlete transition from competitive athletics. In this show we discuss a new study looking at athlete transition experiences and if they're having the impact we think it's having.

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www.successbeyondgameday.com

Ryan: Welcome to shift habits, athlete mindset hacks, where we talk everything mindset development, taking lessons from the college and pro athletes, coaches and teams that we get to work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. Today we're talking about athlete 

[01:03] Cheney: Yeah. Yeah, it is. This is, this is definitely a good one. We, I think we've got a lot of anecdotes to add to this article that, that we're about to introduce that you found. I think. When did it publish? About a month ago.

[01:18] Ryan: I think it was, it's new, right? It's new and it's, it's really good because, you know, these, we've had a lot of these observations working inside athletic departments, talking to the athletes on all the mindset stuff that we do. You know, we've, we've seen it and it doesn't matter the amount of resources you have, resources meaning money and the type of school.

[01:42] Cheney: Right.

[01:43] Ryan: You know, power conferences, again, national champions down to that division three, junior college, NAIA, you name it, they all go through that. Right. So this is going to put some, some data on top of that. But I think we've observed that, you know, once your competitive athletic career. Right. So this is observation and lived experience, but we've 

[02:54] Cheney: Yeah. Well, and that's the livelihood. Right? I mean, that's all, that's kind of ingrained in us from the time we show some, some talent and ability in a particular sport. Right. And I used the word livelihood intentionally. I remember fall ball my freshman year in college and we're in 

[03:51] Ryan: They go into talking about just the demands that college athletics, you know, the athletics and then the academics, because the NCAA limits how much practice time and all that. But we know having lived it, just because the NCAA limits it doesn't mean that's where you stop. You still have to get treated. You're putting in extra work, all that. But between academics and athletics, they're estimating 70 hours a week between the two being devoted by these athletes. Now, I would argue it's more than that, but I believe they're only like, what is it, 160 hours in a week or something like that.

[04:38] Cheney: Yeah. And officially, you only get 20. That's the official of that's team hours that you can. You can't go past 20. So that's why the fun runs. The gym, you know, the time in the weight room, the treatments, all those. That doesn't count towards that 20.

[05:03] Ryan: Well, I remember taking a tour up at University of North Carolina in their football program under the previous regime, and that they were getting ready to face Georgia Tech and they were in that limited practice wind, right? So they had to go through as fast moving music's pumping and all that. Then practice was over. The coaches had to kind of disband. But you had guys like Eric Ebron. Mitch Travicky wasn't the starter at the time, but he was, I believe, a freshman, a true freshman at that point. And they were doing extra passes, they were running routes, and they were working on their own. And that's why I say it doesn't end with, all right, DAA says coaches can't work with us, can't be organized practice, because it's done. If you want to excel and get to that elite level, you're putting in that extra time. And so the amount of time just in college that you're devoting to the athletics, but then we, you know, and that's four, five years, whatever, Covid window or nine, you get 610, whatever it ends up being now. But you rewind a little bit, and now you're in high school, you know, it's about the same amount of time, if not more, and then you rewind a little bit more, and it's, you know, the. The travel teams, it's all those competitive teams leading up to it. And the more and more we start specializing now, we have, with our kids, you know, you got eight and ten 

[07:07] Cheney: Well, and too. And this is gonna be a whole nother podcast. You know, you talked about specialization. You're inevitably getting closer and closer to burnout or injury. Right?

[07:19] Ryan: Yeah.

[07:20] Cheney: And so many times we see these, these young athletes, they just. All right, I've had enough. I know of a young man, and this has been, a handful of years ago, played on two travel little league teams, seven eight year old travel little league teams, and played over 100 games in a summer. And I'm thinking, I never played 100 games in a year. It's something that certainly needs to be addressed. And I know we'll at some point, probably have a podcast about specialization and the impact that that has 100%.

[07:52] Ryan: But. But regardless, is that their identity is this. This athlete? Until one day it's not. Yeah. So one day they have their number. My number was 23, you know, after MJ. And then all of a sudden, one day, somebody else had my number, and I didn't have to wake up and go to practice. I didn't have to do that. And it's just that figuring out, all right, what's next? And almost 100% of these athletes that were in this study said that transition timeline led to feelings of grief, sadness, loss of motivation, depress, you know, depression and symptoms of depression. And. And it. And it's all through that, you know, how they self identify as that, uh, that individual, which we all know because we're on the other side of it, that athlete is something that you do. It's not who you are, but that who you are isn't developed at all through, uh, competitive athletics.

[09:00] Cheney: Well, we've, you know, we've talked to folks, too, and that's a lot of times, that's the. That's the only thing they want to develop.

[09:06] Ryan: You know, depending on situations where they. Where they grow up, it could be their out. Being a professional athlete is the way out of whatever situation they grew up in. And so they devote the time, the 

[11:13] Cheney: Right. Well, and it's. I think it goes to what you say and have said multiple times, it's if, until it's relevant, until it's important to them, it's not real. Right. And they're not going to lean into it and do it and embrace it. Similarly with the guys we worked with for the combine. Right. Majority of those guys did lean in and embrace it and dove right in. Right. And a handful didn't. And I got to think those three or four that didn't, they look 

[12:14] Ryan: Those pros that have those long careers. It's gonna come to an end at some point, and very few of them get the Tom Brady $360 million broadcast contract. They don't get that life changing transition 

[13:30] Cheney: Yeah, well, you mentioned Brady, and I'm, I wonder if, you know, he looks back and says, and reflecting on this new broadcasting deal that he's got, he's like, man, I should have done this sooner. If I hadn't, I could eat whatever I wanted. I'm not getting chased around by huge human beings trying to rip my head off, you know? But at the same time, he had to do the 20 years or however many it was in the NFL to be able to get to that point. So he had to put his time in. Right? He had to put the work in to get to this big, huge life changing broadcast deal. Not that he didn't already have life changing money to begin with, but it's, you've got to go through these experiences. Like you've said in the past two. Experiences drive beliefs and beliefs drive behaviors.

[14:21] Ryan: Your experiences really impact everything, right? And it's not just your experiences that make that impact. And so it's really funny, something that happens inside the brain because we have skills and we 

[19:11] Cheney: Yeah. Yeah.

[19:12] Ryan: You know, how do you do that? And it's not that academic setting.

[19:17] Cheney: Right.

[19:17] Ryan: So how can it be done virtually or inside small amounts of time, so that they can start to again formulate the new stories that they're telling themselves, which are going to change the beliefs and ultimately change the behavior?

[19:34] Cheney: It comes down to two things. And not, we're trying to solve this right now, but it's. It's prioritization and time management, and we. We'd hear that and we would know it. Right. Um, but they're not being taught how to. How to do this. Right. Even. Even me in college didn't have the best GPA, was terrible first semester, and now I'm. I get to determine what I'm doing and where I'm doing it and whatever. Right. So I make sure to go to class and I make sure I'm at practice and that kind of thing, but. All right, so now it's. Am I doing the other stuff outside of those areas that, the 

[21:02] Ryan: Just in that little dialogue you had there, so many things came into mind, and I think one thing that pops into my mind is this is not just a athlete. This is a college student thing.

[21:19] Cheney: Yeah.

[21:20] Ryan: So where do we see evidence of that? You know, I think when we go to college, that's our time, where we figure out who we are, but we're picking a major. And when you look at the data, 70% of individuals that graduate inside a certain discipline or inside a certain majority never get a job that they use, what they went to school for. Right.

[21:48] Cheney: Right.

[21:48] Ryan: And so. And so it's that, oh, okay. I've spent this time, four or five years figuring out who I am and educating myself in a discipline that I never use moving forward. Right. And so, again, it's not just a athlete thing. 

[24:04] Cheney: Well, it's like, how do you. How can you relate to me and the experiences that I've gone through? You can't. Right. There's that disconnect, and I. That's where I think what we're getting to do is to help 

[25:09] Ryan: A lot of times it takes that belief of someone that has walked the steps or a high performer in some kind of capacity. It doesn't have to be, you know, if we're talking about a major league baseball player, you don't have you. The need to be a major league baseball player to deliver the message isn't there, but it's a high performer in some sort of capacity. Right? Because the characteristics, the commitment needed to perform at 

[27:50] Cheney: Yeah. What makes me distinguishable and stand out. And you look at this and you quoted a few of these folks from the study, and this speaks exactly to what we're talking about. There's got to be, we got to peel the onion back a few more layers with the resources that are being 

[29:12] Ryan: We never start stop believing that we are athletes. Like, in my mind, I can still go out and, you know, play baseball. Reality, it's not that. Right. And numerous surgeries later, you know, I've, you know, I know that, but the belief of those characteristics still, you know, hold true. And that's what this said as well, is that they still, you know, almost 99% of these athletes still view themselves as an athlete. Yeah, I think they still maintain athletic qualities and how they live their life and how, you know, how they view competition and all that, you know, that is the athlete right in them. And it's these characteristics and qualities that they already had inside of them that they built and refined through practice, through game experience, through messing up. So. So that when they actually get to, you know, their sport and they can perform or real world, they can perform. And so I think that's the piece, right? It's the practice. It's the application that's missing on a lot of these campuses. And let's just boil it down really simple. Coach teaches you a new skill. You go out and you practice, practice, practice. You mess up, you fail. Until now, all of a sudden, you've mastered the skill. So how do we teach awareness of the existing skill? Have them practice and mess up in a way that isn't going to take a lot of time, that they can feel still part of that athletic community? Maybe they've got partners or a group that they're doing this inside of, that they're practicing, they're failing, they're refining. So that when it's time to step up to, you know, deliver this in a interview or media, you know, it could be a job interview or it could just be media after your game that they perform at the highest level that it's not practice at that point, so they don't have to worry about failing at that point. It's so refined, just like their sports skills, that when they step out on the field, they know they're going to be able to perform.

[31:56] Cheney: Yeah. Well, I think John Maxwell talks about this quite a bit. And I think most leader leadership coaches will have their own kind of version of, you do it, you evaluate it, you fix it and you do it again, and then you repeat that process and you just keep, you keep doing that. I remember I had a whole, had a coach years and years ago, and I remember saying something about practice makes perfect. And he corrected me. He corrected me. He said, practice makes perfect is, it is a good thing, but you're missing something there because if you're practicing the wrong thing right, then you're making perfect the wrong thing. So it's perfect. Practice makes perfect. And I think that's where the intentionality is. Okay, we got to one know, okay, what is this that I'm trying to accomplish and then how do I need to get there? And then step by step, little by little, I've got to, I've got to do this and build on that and build on that. Because again, a lot of times it's breaking habits, right? Because we've got our comfort zone, we got our routine, we got the things that we do that just so come so naturally. As you've already alluded to, there are so many things just as high performing athletes, and I'm not putting myself in that category, but those high performing athletes, they just do things Subcon, they just subconsciously done right there. I mean, they're doing it without even knowing they're doing it. It's just because it's natural.

[33:34] Ryan: But now we're, that's become natural because of the, of the practice aspect, because of the practice.

[33:40] Cheney: And that's where what I think what we're able to do in the mindset, these attributes that we're talking about in coaching and 

[34:21] Ryan: Yeah. You know, so the next point that this article makes is talking about some of the psychological effects. Right. The mental health aspect. And again, 99% of these kids and these athletes in the study were saying, hey, something is needed here, and I'd like to dive in a little bit more about what we mean on. I'm an individual that plays a sport, you know, I'm an versus a sport player. Right. And what that actually means. So to me, you know, it's the whole, if we can really define more the. I'm using athletics versus having athletics use me. And which we hear a lot. We talk to, you know, these pro athletes, and it's. It's. To me, it's how are you using your skills athletically and the opportunity and platform that you have to create for that life after and so years. Yeah. Yeah. So it starts with really understanding. You can't do that unless you understand who you are, 

[39:48] Cheney: No, you're exactly right. And one of the. You, I want to add to that, that the, the coach had the, the conversation with his former athlete, and basically it was like, don't screw this up. You better, you better go knock this out of the park. And again, the guy ended up being first in the. He graduated first in the law class, right. So, you know, he was highly motivated. He knew what he wanted to do. I had a college roommate, 

[40:45] Ryan: Yep. And I think what they're like. Yes.

[40:50] Cheney: Yeah.

[40:50] Ryan: And then I think the earlier that, that these athletes can identify again who they are and use the sport to get what they ultimately want, that's, that's really the key to this. Right. And so that's really how this study wraps up. And it's saying, hey, there's some things that we really need to. To figure out to change, to improve the transition experience. And it hits on a lot of the stuff that we talked about. Right. So it's identifying as early as possible who they are outside of sport, again, changing that belief system so that they start behaving differently and making those relationships and being that athlete that now knows why I need to perform good on the field or on the court, because it's going to help me accomplish these other things. Right. So it's not necessarily taking away from their performance athletically, it's enhancing their performance athletically and then giving them the space to practice and create community so that they can have those mentorship or that support group as they advance on through life. And community doesn't always mean, I'm a football player, I need to just do this with football players. It's, hey, I'm a football player. I need to maybe, you know, someone that's really going to help me is a former track athlete or a current track athlete. And so it's cross pollinating between sports. And I know it's difficult to do, especially at the high levels where it's all about isolation. Right. The football team has their own village on campus that they live and operate in the. But it's this cross pollination among all athletes, all sports, so that we can start, you know, at the end of the day, creating more successful transitions after that competitive athletic career is done, but also create that student athlete experience that ultimately draws these athletes back to campus donations, you know, the lifeblood of a lot of these athletic programs. Universities.

[43:05] Cheney: Well, and then it talks as you talk about that, the, what's next? And helping these athletes be able to make these connections. And those are very, very important. I mean, you, for example, you're a perfect example, right, where baseball ended abruptly for you and then you had to 

[44:03] Ryan: Yeah. That was, you know, that was my mindset, the athlete mindset. Right. Going into it. But I still faced the, who am I? You know, I got into the financial services right after athletics, and it was more of a default. This is the one thing that I can actually get an interview and get accepted into. Yeah. And I leveraged some relationships through baseball, you know, that I, to get that. But it was, it was still like this. I guarantee had I had a program that fully developed who I was, I would have treated baseball differently. And I may have played at a different school and taken that, you know, not needed to play right away to make it to that next level. I may have gone to a different university and sat for a couple of years and really utilized the opportunity and the platform that I could have gotten on. We come to a close on this show. Thank you again for joining us on shift happens. I'm Ryan. This is Cheney. And we'll see you next time.

What is the difference between motivation and mindset? In this episode we talk about the difference between the two and the more impactful.

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[00:05] Ryan: Welcome to shift happens athlete mindset hacks where we talk everything mindset development, taking lessons from the college and pro athletes, coaches and teams that we get to work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. And today we're talking about the difference between mindset and motivation because I think a lot of times cheney, they get lumped together and to me they're, it's extreme. They're extremely polar opposites almost.

[00:36] Cheney : Then as we, as preparing, doing research for this, I pulled, pulled this up and there were two off of psychology today. I'm gonna read these to you might so again, psychology today. So hearing you, you know, this is legit. Mindset is a belief that orients the way we handle situations. Our mindsets help us spot opportunities, but they can also trap us in self defeating cycles. Now, motivation, same thing, psychology of the day. Motivation, that is the desire to act in a service of a goal is the crucial element in setting and attaining our objectives. So motivation is one of the driving forces behind human behavior. So I think that they are there. They are opposites, but I think there is some congruency there, too. You know, we talk about, you talk about the experience drives beliefs and beliefs drive behavior. So I think the mindset is not, never necessarily overarching, but I think there is not hand in glove by any means, but it's, there's definitely a correlation there, a connection.

[01:49] Ryan: Yeah, they're definitely connected. And I think where I went with that comment is, you know, talking to some of the coaches in some of the athletic departments, and they get early in the season, you see guys like Eric Thomas or inky Johnson go and talk to the team and the coaches thinking that, hey, that is mindset development and et. Eric Thomas is the number one motivational speaker in the world, right? Yeah. Yeah, they're motivational speakers, right? Yep. Now, I think they probably do a little bit deeper just because of, you know, the content, their experiences, their delivery, all of that. But, but it gets the team excited to go conquer the season, right? It gets the team, you know, listening to the inky Johnson clips, it's a. And he gets the team excited to be a Tennessee volunteer, to give it all to their teammates, you know, or whoever he's, you know, whatever team he's talking to. And it's that getting hyped, right. It's getting pumped up, and it's trying to get some of the perspective on what the end goal or what the team's goals are. To me, that's motivation, and that goes on a lot right. And I think you really both. But mindset and mindset development is training the individual how to think differently in order to maintain high performance or even go beyond what their current ceiling is from a, you know, athletic form or just personal performance level.

[03:51] Cheney : Yeah, no, that's exactly right. And again, I think there's. Would there been a connection? And obviously there is. You talk about there being polar opposites, and they are, and. But I think mindset is that overarching umbrella, and that's what we've got to develop, and then inherently, through that, then we can figure out what it is that motivates you. Right. So is it. Is it inky Johnson? Is it et visit? Is it kirby smart? Is it, you know, hypo. Whoever it is that now is giving you that pregame speech that is motivating, that's getting you pumped and ready to go. To go perform at a high level. So, yeah, it's. It's.

[04:32] Ryan: Yeah, the motivation is different. Yeah. The motivation is getting you in that zone. Right. Yeah. Where, you know, I look at a. A guy like JJ Watt, who, his pre game routine took him from being this fun loving guy to this animal. Right. And that it could be his playlist, it could be whatever it was took him and got him in that zone so that he could go out and compete in an extremely violent sport. Yeah. Whereas the mindset component is, hey, something happens, how am I going to react? How am I getting prepared the week leading up to the game so that I can get in that zone or be better prepared to get in that zone, that I can make it, you know, pass this contract into the next contract so that I can perform through this injury or these aches and these pains. It's that whole training and rewiring of how I'm going to process information in order to, again, achieve or even surpass what my performance, athletic performance ceiling is.

[06:09] Cheney : And it's believing, hey, I'm the right guy and the right. I'm the right guy in the right spot at the right time, and I'm going to perform at a high level. Chipper Jones used to talk about it, too. He said, every time I ran on the field, I believed, he said, and then he prepped it. I may not have been the best, but I believed I was the best on the field every time I ran on the field. And there. And that comes from a mindset that's. That is 100% mindset.

[06:36] Ryan: Yep. Absolutely. All right. Mindset different than motivation. My mindset training is different than a motivational speaker. It takes a little bit of time, and it takes the right process. So you got to trust the process. It hits on a couple of main things, which I'm sure we'll get into at a later podcast. But mindset different than motivation. Thanks again for joining us on shift happens. I'm Ryan. This is Cheney. Until next time.

A few weeks in to college football and coaches and fans are all looking for answers and giving sound bites. Is it possible to develop that top .001% personality or are you born with it? In this episode we talk about elephants, rhinos and lions.

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Ryan: Welcome to shift happens athlete mindset hacks where we talk everything mindset development, taking lessons from the college and pro athletes, coaches and teams. We get to work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. And we're in the heart now or that the early beginnings of football season and we've seen teams that were supposed to win, lose and, and were supposed to lose, win. And now we get the sound bites and the comments and we get the glimpse inside what the next week is going to look like for some of these players, whether it's good or whether it's bad. And there was a comment in a post game interview that a coach made about, and this was a loot. The coach had lost, his team had lost and we the team. His comment was the team needs to develop the killer instinct. This is a bit, you know, a big program, lots of success, recent national championship, and say that, that word killer instinct, it just brought me back to, you know, those three types of people that we talk about. And the reality is he may not have anybody on his team that is capable or has that killer instinct.

Cheney: Well, and that's, that's where you got to know your team. Right. And be able to identify who you've got. Again, we talk about Jordan quite a bit. The jackson talks about the former head coach, a coach led team. That's a good team. A player led teams can be a great team. And I think that's where, you know, these players need to step up and be able to, but you got to identify or be able to understand and have the self awareness of, okay, is, am I the one? Do I need to step up and be that, that motivator, that encourager that has that killer instinct and bring the other guys along with me.

Ryan: We talk about the effective athlete, the executor and the enforcer. If we relate those to animals, I think elephant, rhino and lion. And so I think about that effective athlete, that elephant that you're going to give them that script and the job, hey, you need to do this. And if somebody comes in and gets in your space, yeah, you're going to charge them a little bit, but you're mainly, you're going to be there and you're going to fit the role that we need. Right. And you're good with that. And that's a lot. That's the bulk of people in the world are that effective person. Right. That elephant. And you get the executor right where it's the rhino. Wherever I, hey, I need you to charge that way and, you know, if you need to use that horn to get somebody out of the way, then you're going to do that and they'll do it. They'll get that person out of the way and. And they'll be good. Right. They'll. They have exceeded what is an effective, you know, individual. They have, you know, executed on that task at a high level. They've cleared the. Cleared a path. Great. Right.

Cheney: Yeah.

Ryan: Smaller segment now. Now, the very, very smallest is that enforcer. And I think lion, because a lion chases prey in two ways. It either goes head on once it has the animal, you know, animals cornered and it goes head on. The jackals and the hyenas and all that can circle a lion and mess with them. He tolerates it up until he doesn't, and then the switch flips and it's over for those. Right. He could be outnumbered. It doesn't matter. The lion stalks his prey. You don't even know that the lion is watching you, following you, plotting his strategy until it's too.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: And so overdose until it's over. Right. And then it's too late. You don't have a really small segment of the population, and, you know, we see these buddies that are, you know, we're friends with everybody on the team, and, you know, that can't be. You've got to. If you're looking for that person, it's an extremely rare person. And this coach may not have that individual on the team. And, you know, I laughed because we had that comment coming out of the, you know, the previous week, but then we also had a comment, and you're going to hear a lot of this because I'm a Tennessee guy. But you had the quarterback, the new quarterback from Tennessee, I think, mature beyond his years. First, you know, I guess first regular season game he started in the bowl game last year, did really well. And, you know, they crushed their team. They were physically, you know, Tennessee was well, well beyond Tennessee Chattanooga's capability. Right. But his comment was, what do you, you know, take the cut. The question was, what do you take away from this victory? And, you know, it was a, you know, lesser, um, quality team and blah, blah, blah. And his comment was, the lesson I take away is, is that we did the right thing by keeping our foot on their throats, not letting them get back in the game, seeing opportunity to take that kill shot and taking it and not letting up after that. And that's that mindset that those elite players at every level have that develop that killer instinct. And the coach, you know, I hope he finds someone because it may not be the, the best physically the fastest or the strongest, you know, player. I mean, with a roster of, you know, 150 people inside that, you know, there's bound to be somebody. Yeah. That has that, and it's that individual that maybe needs to get playing time because they're gonna lay out and throw that extra block. They're going to, you know, they're going to physically put their body on the line to get the team that isn't like that person. Motivated to keep pushing, keep performing, not mail it in, pack it in, think that the game is won before the clock gets to zero.

Cheney: Now, and you've hit, you've hit on a bunch there. As you were talking about the elephant and the rhino and the lion, I was thinking about University of Georgia years ago, ran the power high offense, right? Had a guyenne, Herschel Walker board number 34. That's why I wore 34. But you've got your, your offensive line as your elephants, right? Yeah. I don't want to know. I don't want to see, I don't want to hear about you guys, because if I do, then that means you're not, you're not making your blocks. Do you do your job right? You're the role players. And nothing against offensive linemen, but, I mean, you play in a position it's been, you're down and dirty, right? And I, you're not going to get the glory. And you know that going in, you've already, you've already in that, that mindset of, hey, I'm here to do a job and I'm going to do it. And then I think about the fullback being that rhino of, hey, I'm, I'm a heat seeking missile and I'm bleeding. I'm leading the block as Herschel's taking the ball around the end. I'm getting out in front of him and I'm clearing a path, right? I'm using the horn to whoever gets in the path. I'm clearing them out, I'm getting them out of the way. And then it's. Then Herschel's, he's. He's, he's going. No, he's, he's, he's, he's stalking the prey of. Do I need to run them over or can I run by him? What I need to do? How do, how do I get to the end zone? Right? So that was what I was envisioning as you were talking about that, putting that in a sports perspective. And, you know, a lot of not much of the power eye anymore in football at all. But I think it speaks a lot to the athletes that we're talking about not having the killer instinct. And you talked about it doesn't necessarily need to be a vocal, loud, outspoken leader. It can be that athlete who shows up first, who shows up early, stays late, who gets the extra rep in, in the weight room. That kind of thing, you know, is willing to go that extra mile, as you said, get that pick up, that second block, whatever it is, and it's leading by example. And that that's, I think, who we're wanting to have the killer instinct and be the role model. Right. Because a lot of times, the vocal leader may just be vocal because. And again, you push back. The vocal leader may be the vocal leader because there's some insecurities and they're trying to keep themselves motivated by being vocal. Right.

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that, that could be. And, you know, that's a great visual, you know, thinking, Herschel. I mean, man, what a player. But the lion could be that offensive line.

Cheney: Yeah, true.

Ryan: You know, it's that person with that, that switch that says, no, not today. You're. I am going to dominate you until zeros are on this clock. And so it's not necessarily a position thing. It's a. It's a mindset characteristic and, you know, a mindset thing that that is developed. And it's, you know, a lot of times it's the actions. I mean, you think back at, at plays where maybe it was a late hit that got the team, you know, reengaged and, you know, those sorts of actions that getting that second block or, you know, the running back or receiver catching the ball, taking a shot, spin move, and, you know, three or four extra yards as two or three more guys come and hit them, it's that, you know, I could be stopped here. Right. The effective guy is going to take the shot. He's going to go down. The executor is going to take the shot, attempt the spin move, maybe get a yard, and the enforcer is going to take the shot, make the spin move, and he's going to get five or six more yards.

Cheney: Yeah, we're following.

Ryan: Right. You stop this guy, it's going to take your whole team to stop this guy. And that's what this coach is looking for. And, and I think you. I. It's a great thing. I think the championship, the very elite teams have that. It could show up physically. It could show up vocally. Sometimes they are that same person. Right. But like you said, a lot of times, that vocal leader is maybe somebody that's could be insecure and is just, you know, being loud and, you know, overcompensating for something else. It could be that athlete that's more mature, that is trying to keep everyone's perspective and focus. But sometimes it. You need that edge, right? You need that player with that edge to get in there. And it could be the, you know, one of the least talented guys on the team. But the overall impact, even though they could be a weakness on the field, that overall impact of having that player there and what that. That killer instinct does to the rest of the team could warrant them playing more, getting more snaps, getting more reps, getting more at bats, uh, getting more minutes. And so, you know, that's the. I hope this coach finds it because it's going to be. He has it. He has it. And it's going to be a really long, frustrating season if they can't identify somebody that that has that. But it. It has to be one of the teammates, you know, effective executor, enforcer, elephant, rhino, lion. The Lions are rare, but the impact can be felt, and that's really how champions are made. So thanks for joining us on shift happens. Until next time.

Building a winning mindset, an elite mindset takes time. Knowing where to start and what that foundation looks like is instrumental to being successful. In this episode we talk about the Golden R.U.L.E.E. when is comes to building an elite mindset.

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[00:06] Ryan: Welcome to shift happens athlete Mindset hacks, where we talk everything mindset development, taking lessons from the college and pro athletes, coaches and teams, we get to work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. And today I'm throwing something at 

[01:45] Cheney: And let me say this, too, before you get in, because as you've kind of set this up, it makes me think of even beyond athletics in the corporate world, it's, it's working on your business rather than working in it. Right. You went to your spot this past weekend and, and typically when you come out of this from your spot, you've, you, that's where you do a lot of your best thinking. So I'm excited about what this is. It's like Christmas morning. You, I don't, I know it's packaged nicely. I'm ready to unopen it or ready to open it. So let's do it.

[02:19] Ryan: I'm going to give you a rule. Okay. And I'm just going to spell it differently. I'm going to spell it r u l e e. Right. So this is a rule. And again, 

[03:37] Cheney: Yeah, I like it. We've talked in a previous podcast, percentage wise, right, of having yourself surrounded with high performers, and your production increases 15%. Right? Did I get that number correctly? Now, if you've got low performers in your circle, it reduces your productivity by 30. Focus on the negative. This. Get rid of the negative. Yeah. Love it. Love that.

[04:05] Ryan: All right, next one. Uniqueness. You may not meet the very stringent physical requirements or the prototype, the visual prototype of a professional athlete or a, you know, corporate, a business owner or a CEO, 

[06:34] Cheney: Well, I think that you've articulated that very well and in this mindset. Right. And it's, you know, one of the guys combine that we worked with, they asked him afterwards, what was it that separated you? 

[07:07] Ryan: Yeah. And they don't have NFL contracts.

[07:09] Cheney: That's true.

[07:12] Ryan: All right, now, the l. So rule spelled r u l e e. I know. It's spelled wrong for everybody listening. So r is reduce, u is uniqueness. L is language. Okay. So what you say out loud is much more powerful than your self talk. And, you know, the best teams, they're great at communicating, then they communicate with each other in a powerful manner. Right. They motivate when they need to, they criticize or coach when they need to. There's clear communication on what the players, what the position groups need from each other in order to operate at that high level. So it's much more important what you say out loud in the line of positivity, because what goes on in, what goes on in your own head affects you. What you say out loud affects more people.

[08:23] Cheney: Right. Well, and, too, we've talked about communication, body language, tone, and the words. Right. And the body language has got to match up with the words that you're actually saying. Obviously, in the tone. It's got to be. It's got to be there, too. So now that makes a lot of sense of, hey, if I'm trying to lead and I'm vocally leading, all of these things have got to match up, because if my body language is not reflecting that I'm motivating and trying to encourage, then I'm falsely communicating or I'm communicating negatively. Right. And people are going to respond to that negatively. I think that goes back to the r of reducing negativity. So I think I like where we're headed. Let's keep going.

[09:13] Ryan: Well, in the language piece, I think back at the. I think a great example is the Super bowl. Wherever the Patriots came back from, you 

[09:31] Cheney: Yeah.

[09:31] Ryan: And you can see video of Brady on the sidelines getting guys hyped up. Hey, we're making this happen. We're going to come back. He was in front you know, in the defense, in the offense, he was, he was telling them, hey, you need to stop these guys because we're going to score again. So what he said out loud made his team, you know, behave and act in a way and perform. Right.

[09:59] Cheney: Yeah.

[10:00] Ryan: But I guarantee you what was going on in his head was, I don't know if we can make this happen. We're going to try. But there was an element of doubt in his head. Right. So the language you use side of yourself talk is exponentially more powerful than what you say to yourself because it affects more people. All right, the first e the real.

[10:24] Cheney: Quick, I saw a clip recently, Bill Walton was talking about Blair Bird, right? And in this game, it's late. I mean, it's late in the third quarter and Celtics are down, I don't know, 25. It was a bunch, right? And Larry Bird's about to take the ball out and he's running, he's in front of the Celtics bench and he, the, the referee hands him the ball and bird kind of 

[11:16] Ryan: So the first e is even, all right? So even means you need to be neutral. You need to stay in neutral when something happens, okay. Something happens whether it's good or whether it's bad, there's no emotion tied into it. Right. It just happened. Right. So you don't get caught up in the positivity or the negativity of whatever happened. So if you throw a bad pass, right. If you throw an interception, all right, it happened. What do I need to do now in order to, in light of the fact that that happened, right. You get down and you score a touchdown. Great. That happened. Don't get too high like you need to now. Yeah. What do I need to adjust to now that, you know, we scored this, this touchdown? So even, you know, operate in neutral when something happens. It just happens. Accept it and 

[12:40] Cheney: You talked about being a Tennessee guy. I'm a Georgia guy and Kirby smart. That's one of the things he's really harps on, is don't respond. You're going to get taunted. You're going to get baited. Don't respond to it. You know, even killed. You're exactly right. You know, don't respond to the negativity. Right. Um, and Ted Lasso talks about this, too, in his show, and I'm. I'm sure everybody that's listening has seen this, but, uh, he talks about one of. He's talking to one of the players and tells him to have a. The memory of a goldfish, which is 10 seconds, and then, you know, 10 seconds, then you're moving on. You've forgotten about that. So there's no more negative thought on if you threw an incomplete pass. Right. It's moving on. Let's get this. Move on to the next one. Um, so, yeah, that. There's a lot of value to that. And then we've already said it today, the. When you have that success is act like you've been there. Like, you know, the mindset should be, I expect to be successful. I expect to score. Um, now I've just. I'm meeting my expectations. So, you know, Herschel used to do that.

[13:49] Ryan: So when it happens. Yeah, when it happens.

[13:53] Cheney: It's not like it's a surprise, like I expected this to happen. Herschel used to, and he did it. He actually did it a couple of times in NFL, where he spiked the football. But in college, he always tossed the ball after he scored, which was a lot. He tossed the ball right back to the referee.

[14:10] Ryan: Last e in rule for building the winning mindset, the five key components, right? Emotions. So stop paying attention to feelings. 

[15:09] Cheney: When you distance yourself from your teammates, too, right? And it's. Again, it's gelling one unit. It's like I'm. Hey, I'm. I got my job to do, but I'm also looking out for you at the same time. And if you're, if your emotions are just putting your, you putting yourself out on an island out by yourself, then am I going to be, if I'm going to have the same interest and desire to, hey, I'm looking out for your best interest as well. Still got my job to do, but I'm also, I'm looking to help either side wherever I meet. I'm needed. Yeah.

[15:49] Ryan: So rule, right. Building, building a winning mindset. What are the five key components to that right now? It takes work to do all of this type of stuff. It's not just a, all right, I've heard this now I'm just going to implement all of it. I mean, it takes time. It takes someone. But as we talk 

[16:25] Cheney: What this is doing, again, it's, it's encompassing what we've been talking about and the work that we're getting to do anyway. And it's using a compilation, if you will, of all the different mindset components, coachability and trainability and well being and all. It takes a little bit of all 

[16:47] Ryan: You heard it here first. It's our rule for developing a winning mindset. Hey, thank you for joining us on shift happens. I'm Ryan. This is Cheney. Until next time.

Mindset Performance Indicators give us a glimpse on how individuals will process information and ultimately behave in various situations. This episode talks about the fourth category of mindset performance indicators, wellbeing

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www.successbeyondgameday.com

[00:52] And we've got six performance indicators in well being.

[00:56] And to me, this is really how we process struggles, how we process stress and things that don't always go the right way.

[01:07] How do we feel about ourselves?

[01:08] All those sorts of things are really wrapped up into the well being.

[01:14] Right. And in addition to that, it's also, it's self care, you know, self regard, taking care of myself.

[01:22] Right.

[01:23] And just knowing, hey, what do I need to do to make sure that I'm able and to perform at highest capacity?

[01:31] So the first performance indicator inside well being is dealing with difficult situations. Now, on a previous show, we had talked about optimism being a yemenite key indicator for success. And inside this well being, there's really three different stress components dealing with stress that we deal with. And I think how you process stress leads to whether you're optimistic or pessimistic. It's a component of it anyway. And so dealing with difficult situations, I would say, is, you know, life in general throws something at you. Are you able to deal with it and process it in a healthy way or do you let it consume you?

[02:34] No, that's exactly right. And it's, it's having the energy also to be able to deal with difficult situations, but also the mechanisms in place to handle those. Reading the book now, Jason Selk, Ellen Reed, relentless solution focus. And it's basically speaking about how do we handle bad things? And we know that bad things happen. We experience adversity in difficult situations, but it's not wallowing in that. It's acknowledging it. But, okay, now let's break that mindset. Let's get out of that. Let's flip the switch to, okay, now, how do I fix it? What's next? What do we do to solve this? Or if it's, hey, it's just something I've got to persevere through, then how can I do it as optimistically as possible?

[03:28] So the next performance indicator is the stress and coping inside a work scenario.

[03:35] Okay, so this, you know, if you're in the t, in a team, in.

[03:39] A locker room or in a work.

[03:41] Environment, if somebody took your job or if a main player gets injured, you know, arguments inside the locker room, somebody gets promoted over you, are you going to be able to process that and again, handle that and seek results in a healthy way, or is it going to handcuff you and keep you from performing your role, your position, your job, like you can perform?

[04:17] Right.

[04:18] And also, just what are the mechanisms you've got in place for coping with that stress? Because again, you got pressure and stress, and there's a difference in those two. But the example that you were just alluding to, if somebody got injured and now you've gotten promoted, you know, there's, now there's some stress and also some pressure because now you gotta step up and perform.

[04:44] Right?

[04:45] And do you have the mechanisms in place to be able to help you? Okay, Bledsoe goes down. All right, Brady, you're in. Let's go.

[04:55] Right.

[04:56] Lead this team to a victory.

[04:58] Yeah. And can you silo those sorts of things and not let it affect how you interact with people, how you do your job? And I think that's an important component of it to being able to silo it is a part of a component to dealing with and processing it.

[05:21] Yeah, yeah.

[05:23] All right.

[05:23] Self care and self regard.

[05:26] How would you define this one, man?

[05:29] This is, this is, I think, one that what we have found so many people struggle in because we're so focused on what we're doing that we don't 

[06:15] Yeah, I think there's also a big component to this where athletes, and I'd say even high achievers, they always view themselves as being able to improve and, you know, we're not a finished product. I didn't do this perfectly. I can do it better. And so they tend to score lower on this tends to 

[06:48] Have done something better in the game and we could have won bigger or it wouldn't have been as close.

[06:54] Yeah, well, and there is that. That intrinsic motivation that those high performing athletes have. It's like I don't need some external motivation is good from time to time, you know, whether it's fabricated or manufactured. But for the most part, my motivation comes from me 

[07:15] Right.

[07:16] And it's at the same. And thinking about Kobe Bryant, he talked about working, working out three times a day. He's getting up early. He's working out now. He did the self care, and self had the self regard after that of, hey, I need to rest. I need to hydrate. I need to. I need to eat some protein. I need to take care of my body because of what I've just put it through. So he. I would love to have seen him take this because I would be willing to bet you he. He maxed this thing out because he understood, hey, if I. I've got to take care of my body so that when I get in the situation, I know that it's going to respond in a way that I wanted to, that helps me be successful, ultimately helps the team be successful.

[07:59] All right, number four is self criticism, and this one is, again, we see this a lot of times in athletes, but it shows up in different ways. Right. So it's. Am I watching film? Did I do if I played ten plays or did I do all ten of those?

[08:24] Perfect. Probably not.

[08:25] But we might have won the game and I might have performed and executed on nine of them. And I did something a little bit wrong on the 

[08:39] Right.

[08:39] And I'm talking, you know, that mental. Talking to my. Down to myself. Those sorts of things also can show up on. Off the field where, hey, I'm at that pro level, and now I have stuff for the first time ever, or.

[08:58] Even at college now with name, image, and likeness.

[09:00] Now I have money and these sorts of things, but I didn't come from.

[09:07] A place where we did. Do I really deserve this? Do I deserve to be here?

[09:11] And you talk yourself down from just going out and achieving what you're really capable of achieving.

[09:19] Yeah. And some self criticism is not bad.

[09:22] Right?

[09:23] And even if, you know, we're going to be our worst critic, right. Because our expectations are higher than anybody else's expectations for us. So it's not a bad thing. But if we know that, then we know. Okay, I can be self critical, but I need to flip that right and then start to figure out, okay, what is it that I can do better?

[09:44] How can I improve?

[09:45] What is it that, how do I get out of that space? Because again, it can be very debilitating if we wallow in that. Like, well, Bruce Lee talks about the mind, the body not understanding. When you tell, when the mind says or you say, I'm not good at this, the body doesn't understand whether that was said sarcastically.

[10:08] Right.

[10:09] It's just, all it knows is, hey, here's the, this is one of the synapses firing of, hey, I'm saying that I'm not good at something, then the body responds negatively because of that negative statement. So it's, again, we can be critical, but it can also, it can be motivating at the same time. If we understand it and can get out of that space, we gotta get out of pretty 

[10:44] Yeah, I mean, two things. You know, I had two thoughts as you were talking there. I think it's, as a coach, it's being able to identify if my player 

[11:49] Players versus the 20 have the same.

[11:52] Skill set, but it's just that one component that elevated them to the top five. And so it's being able to, if.

[12:00] You can process this as an athlete or in the workplace on your own.

[12:04] And, and get out of that space quickly, great.

[12:07] But if you're a coach and you.

[12:09] Have someone with high talent that scores.

[12:11] Lower in this, being able to get.

[12:13] To them quickly, to get them out of that, that headspace so that they can operate at peak talent, peak performance.

[12:23] Right.

[12:24] And I don't know if you've seen the show, Ted Lasso, and he's coaching a premier, Larry, Premier League soccer club, football club. And he comes from american football and never had this. He's never had any coaching or any experience in football in what folks would say, grill football. But he's telling one of his players who made a mistake. He was like, what animal has the shortest memory? And he says, it's the goldfish. Got a ten second memory. So basically telling him, hey, a goldfish, you know, you got 10 seconds, now move on, get. You know, let's get back to the optimism, the positivity, and let's go perform at this high level that you can perform at. And you, you had this conversation, too, with a. With one of the guys training for the combine, right? And you were an encourager. You helped to motivate him and affirming.

[13:22] Right.

[13:22] So now it's okay. Now just let what you do, just let it happen. Go do it.

[13:30] All right, number five, stress and coping in personal scenarios. So, you know, just like the stress and coping in work scenarios, but this.

[13:40] One'S inside your personal life.

[13:41] And so if your girlfriend or boyfriend breaks up with you, can you silo that and still show up and execute on the.

[13:51] On the field, in the work environment.

[13:54] Like you need to, right. If a death in the family or you and your buddy have a fight.

[14:03] Anything like that, any sort of stress.

[14:05] That happens in there, can you put that in its own mental compartment and go out and perform and deal with it later to where it's not impacting your performance?

[14:18] Yeah, we've talked about stress coping in the work situation or in the. In the sport area, but then also personally. And of those two, what we would like to see is the mechanisms in place, a much stronger foundation in the personal world on the personal side, because if something were to happen negatively in the work side, it's not going to negatively impact the personal side. Now, conversely, if we don't have the mechanisms in place 

[15:11] Yeah, I think you look at examples. You look at Jordan when his dad.

[15:16] Died and he played in the championship.

[15:18] And you would never have known that.

[15:21] Happened when he was on the court.

[15:23] But then he let his emotions flow.

[15:26] When he was holding the trophy. Right?

[15:28] Or Brett Favre, when his dad died and he went through something like seven touchdowns against the Raiders, he was able to compartmentalize that personal grief and stress that was going on and show up and execute for his teammates, for the fans, all those other people. All right, that's one. Number six in well being is self esteem. This is simple, right. This is how good do you feel about yourself, the position you're in, what you're achieving? Like, are you happy with the person you see in the mirror?

[16:14] That's right.

[16:15] And a lot of times, too, it's when we find that it's not as strong of a score as we would like to see. It's not necessarily suggesting that you don't have a strong self esteem.

[16:29] Right.

[16:30] But what a lot of times what we'll see are folks that are projecting self esteem when they may not necessarily be 100%. Hey, I'm confident in myself and I'm good in my skin.

[16:44] Right.

[16:45] So that's something we are very, very cognizant of that, too, because that's one of those, that's a big ticket item. There is self esteem and how you see yourself, and there's a lot of coaching opportunities within that particular item.

[17:07] Yeah.

[17:07] And I think you nailed it when.

[17:09] You said you may be projecting outward, like everything is good, but what's really going on inside?

[17:17] And this is going to give you a look.

[17:19] That's why we call these mindset performance indicators. Right, because it's going to give you a look under the hood to see what's really going on. And, yeah, you nailed it. This is a great one. And we went over all four of these components. As you can tell, there's a ton of performance indicators in here.

[17:43] Tons of different ways.

[17:44] From a coach you can bring on.

[17:47] A recruit or an employer you can.

[17:50] Bring in an employee as a filter.

[17:53] Aligning cultural alignment.

[17:56] We've done a show on what does alignment mean? Well, it's making sure that you have the right people in the right positions is a big piece of that.

[18:06] And so how do you get a look under the hood, or in this.

[18:09] Case, inside the head to see how they're going to react and in different situations. And so tons of different ways, this can be used in athletics, college, pro level, pre pro level, and then at the, you know, at the employer and the work level, but also at the athlete level. Understanding who you are, creating that self awareness as we talk nil and brand building is now a thing. It's, it's understanding who you are so that you can, as an athlete, build.

[18:48] Your brand or as an employee, build your brand in a way that aligns.

[18:52] With who you are in a way that's authentic, that's true to yourself. And this gives you that self awareness that, quite frankly, you know, a lot.

[19:02] Of people in their fifties and sixties don't have.

[19:05] And, and they've had all that life experience. I mean, I think that tends to be when we find somebody that's very self aware. Cheney it's, it's somebody later on in life, and they have, you know, 30.

[19:19] 40 years of life experience that got them to that point. This is a way to accelerate that life experience.

[19:27] And with very, very, in the 90% accuracy, identify who you are.

[19:34] Think about having the answers to the.

[19:36] Test before you take it. This is what that self awareness provides for you.

[19:43] All right.

[19:44] So we hit again. Competition. Performance. Capacity, people.

[19:47] Team capacity. Trainability.

[19:49] Well being. Thank you again for another episode of shift happens.

[19:54] I'm Ryan. This is Cheney.

[19:56] And we'll see you next time.