Shift Happens - Athlete Mindset Hacks

Mindset Performance Indicators give us a glimpse on how individuals will process information and ultimately behave in various situations. This episode talks about the third category of mindset performance indicators, trainability

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00:05] Ryan: Welcome to shift happens athlete Mindset hacks, where we talk everything mindset development, taking lessons from the college and pro athletes, coaches and teams, we get to work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. And today we're on category three of 

[01:11] Cheney: No, that's exactly right. I like to call this, too. That is coachability. Right. And you think about the sign that's at little league baseball fields that says, and any youth sports fields, it's basically an uncoachable child is going to be an unemployable adult, and it's 100% true.

[01:34] Ryan: So in trainability, the first performance indicator we have is conceptual learning and understanding. And so I would define this as the 

[01:55] Cheney: Yeah. And that's right. And it's. And then understanding, okay, what is my role in this? What am I supposed to be doing? And why am I supposed to be doing that? You know, we've. We've hit on the why a lot in previous podcasts, and, you know, that's one of. Simon Sinek talks about that pretty. Pretty thoroughly in find your. Find your why and start the why. So it's understanding, okay, why am I doing this? And I think with that understanding, it's. It makes a lot of sense to, if we. If we know why we're doing it, then we can be a lot more engaged and, I think, willing to jump on board and.

[02:30] Ryan: Absolutely. So this could show up as a player who understands their role on the team. They understand what the team vision is. Right. What their goal is. You know, we talk about Urban Meyer, and the goal of the offense wasn't, hey, we're going to score 50 points this game. The goal of the offense in a certain play was we need to get three and a half yards, and that was the determiner of success. Right. And so understanding that, hey, even on the chalkboard, this play may be drawn up as a play, wherever we score, the purpose of it is to get that three and a half yards. And my role within this is to block these people or is to draw attention of the defense over this way and in accepting that and then being able to execute on it in order to achieve, to get that three and a half yards.

[03:32] Cheney: Yeah. Well, and again, it goes to why are we doing it? Right? And then we're understanding, hey, we want these three and a half yards. That's what we're wanting now. We'll take 30 if you can get 30. Absolutely. We'll do, we'll do clips of 30 yards every play. Absolutely. But we know big, big picture, long term, it's going to be much more methodical than that. And I think Ohio State to go, it was, what was the three yards in a cloud of dust and that would, what they used to say before and I think it was before urban Myers, but still Ohio State.

[04:08] Ryan: Yeah. And this could also show up as a freshman coming in. You know, I think University of Tennessee, the quarterback situation last year, right. It had, you had Milton, who's now with the New England Patriots, and you had their five star stud, Niko. I'm not even going to try and pronounce his, his last name because it would take forever, but, but you have this situation where inside the, some of the games people were calling for, hey, let's give Niko a shot and all that. But he came in and 

[05:54] Cheney: Well, now you talk about Brady and he, he was 7th on the depth chart and he's frustrated and goes to see the coach. And basically the conversation was, hey, perform at your peak in those two plays, four plays that you get. And that's what he said. He said, so those plays were my Super bowl, and I made sure that I performed them at the highest, highest 

[06:53] Ryan: All right, next performance indicator is reliability and work ethic. And so I think this one is pretty easy to understand, but it's, can your teammates show, count upon you to show up? Are you going to put in the 

[07:21] Cheney: Yeah, I think the best example that we've got is somebody we worked with training for the NFL combine. And he gets picked up and the interview afterwards, and he basically said, he said, basically what separates me was mindset, work ethic, and attitude. So there's a lot to say 

[08:26] Ryan: Yeah. And I think, you know, as a coach, knowing this right now, with, with athletes, a lot of times this is high. Right. It's rare that it's, it's low, but it could be low in somebody that is super talented and never has to, you know, never had to put in that work in order to get, you know, the game always came easy to them.

[08:49] Cheney: Yeah.

[08:49] Ryan: And so if you're someone in on the team or in the organization, that's like that. It's understanding what you're getting and that. That talent, if they struggle, it may have to teach them how to do the work, you know? And so doesn't mean don't take that person. It just means understanding what you're getting so that if things don't go right, you know, it. How to step in and react appropriately.

[09:21] Cheney: Well, I think there's a level of vulnerability here, too. Right. I need to. If I can't get it, and I've worked on it, I've tried to figure it out, and being willing to go ask somebody, hey, help me out here. I need. I need some coaching, and we've got to be willing to do that. Right. And I think with people that have had success, whether it's on the athletic field or in the corporate world, they want to share what has made them successful.

[09:52] Ryan: Yep. 100%.

[09:54] Cheney: And you talked about on a previous podcast. Sorry. Where when you get your end, the financial advising world, and you observed, hey, this is the guy. And everybody's like, hey, he's not very much of a people person, but you ended up driving him around, and you're watching, observing, and asking questions. Right. You knew, hey, I need to. This is 

[10:28] Ryan: 100%. Next performance indicator in the trainability category is following directions and procedure. So this one kind of spells it out for you, but are you going to follow the team rules? If. If the coach says, meeting starts at 06:00 a.m. but being here at 06:00 a.m. is late, and being here five minutes early is on time, are you going to get there the five minutes early? Are you going to follow the meal plan, you know, get to your lifting sessions, all those sorts of things? Can they count on you to follow through and adapt to how the team does things?

[11:12] Cheney: Yeah. And take it a step further. It's also, if you were. If someone were to score low on this, what that would be suggesting is that maybe you're not understanding what the directions are or what the procedure is, and you've got. It's got to be repeated time and time and time again. You know, conversely, on the positive side, it's, hey, I tell you, once you got it and you're going with it.

[11:41] Ryan: Yeah, I think most athletes we work with do this well, fairly well. Right. And. But we mentioned if someone's lower, it could be a lack of understanding on why they need to do it that certain way up front, and 

[12:14] Cheney: Yeah. It may not be the right person in the right role there.

[12:17] Ryan: All right. Number four, overall morale, overall value of work that you're doing. So I would define this one as do you enjoy and do you get 

[12:54] Cheney: Yeah. And I think another word in, again, semantics. Positive, but optimism. Right. And I think it's very applicable here. And the value of the work is if you don't value the work that you're doing, you're probably not in the right, right place. We need to, probably need to find something else for you to be doing. So that is very important again. And we're not always going to be optimistic or positive about the work that we're doing. I mean, there's, they're all there ebbs and flows. Right. Is the work valuable? Do you see that it is that you're adding value in the work that you're doing? Because if you don't, then you're probably going to have more of a pessimistic outlook on it. Um, and pretty good chance you're looking to change teams or change organizations.

[13:44] Ryan: Yeah. Or even you don't really enjoy the game, you're doing it as a means to an end. Right. Where, you know, if it's, if it's at that pro level, you're trying to make the money and you don't really like playing that 

[14:08] Cheney: Well, you're exactly right. I remember a guy from college 100 years ago that was playing a sport that paid for his tuition and that was only reason he was doing it. Like, he enjoyed the sport, but he didn't enjoy it at that particular level. Right. But that was a means to an end, to be able to pay for school, but also the school helped him get to the professional work that he wanted to be doing once he knew his athletic career was over. So it's. And that's a grind. That's gonna be a grind. I mean, that's an everyday I gotta make a decision to get up and go do this because ultimately it's gonna get me to where I want to be long term, but it's still in the middle of it. It's hard.

[14:57] Ryan: All right, number five is accepting and implementing change is, to me, this really speaks to how coachable are you and are you willing if given feedback, if given constructive criticism, do you pay it lip service and do, you know, make the adjustment the coach tells you while he's looking and then when he looks away, go back to doing it the same old way? Or do you take it to heart and understand that this is going to help you perform better and work at making that change, work at making it into that 

[15:46] Cheney: Well, change, not easy. It's hard because if we're changing something, we've already got a routine or we've already got the way that 

[16:59] Ryan: So whether it's on the team or in the workforce, this one is, again, this is one of my favorite ones that we measure. All right, last performance indicator, understanding what's important. So this may be one of my other favorites. Right. This is one of my top ones because to me, it's all about being able to prioritize, and so it's understanding what the goal, what the vision is, and if I'm getting a lot of stuff thrown at me. I'm able to filter through that information in order to prioritize what I need to do first and then to last in order to achieve that goal, that vision.

[17:45] Cheney: Yeah, well, I think it's. And it's applicable in both, as all of these are, whether it's the sports world or corporate. Am I finding stuff that keeps me busy? And I'm caught up in the busyness of that. But it's not moving you forward to helping me better as an athlete or as a business person to help my team win or to help the business succeed. You know, I can. I see this. I've worked in real estate, and I could. I could find myself some days just, hey, I'm doing paperwork and just doing paperwork, right, or just doing odds and ends, but I'm not in front of somebody. I'm not talking to potential buyers. I'm not. I'm not engaged with people that are ultimately going to move the needle to help me get a sale. Right. So I think that that's if we can find ourselves again, and that goes back to that comfort, hey, I'm doing work, but is this the priority? Is this moving the needle? Is this helping you get closer to a win or closing the deal?

[18:52] Ryan: Yeah. This one reminds me of a game I played, and I, you know, it was a, in high school, uh, playing baseball, and there was a pitcher that I had played on travel teams, but, so I knew him well, and he was a really good pitcher, and he had us. I think it was like the, the fourth inning, and I don't think we had anybody on base. And I knew that if we got someone on base, we could get him rattled. And so I got a little bit closer to, to the plate. You know, everyone would have wanted to break. He might even had a no hitter. Everyone would have wanted to maybe break that no hitter up with a, you know, with a hit or home run. And, you know, that's 

[20:42] Cheney: Well, I think that speaks to all sports of, hey, is, do I need to take one for the team? Right. Whether it's, hey, we got a guy on second, and we got to get him over. So hit the ball to the right side of the field. Okay. Um, and you got to think about it, too, from the mindset perspective of, hey, this guy's got a no hitter. Probably hadn't had anybody on base if he's a no hitter, right? So he's throwing from the wind up, you know, now he's got it through from the stretch, and he's probably ticked off, too, that you got awarded the base and you didn't get hit. And it's you, you know, you all good friends, right? You've competed together as well as against each other. So all of that's playing into you. Look at even in the professional level, where, hey, pitcher hit the corner and the ump calls it a ball, and 

[21:49] Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. All right. Trainability. The six performance indicators in this one. Conceptual learning and understanding, reliability and work ethic, following directions and procedure, overall morale and value of work. Accepting and implementing change and understanding what's important. Thank you for joining us again on shift happens. Until next time.

Mindset Performance Indicators give us a glimpse on how individuals will process information and ultimately behave in various situations. This episode talks about the second category of mindset performance indicators, people and team capacity.

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www.successbeyondgameday.com

[00:06] Ryan: Welcome to shift happens athlete mindset hacks, where we talk everything, mindset development, taking lessons from college and pro athletes, coaches and teams that we get to work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. And today we're still talking about the 

[01:15] Cheney: Yeah, that's exactly right. And it's having the energy to be able to do that. Right. To be able to, hey, we've got differences, but we're on the same team. We've got the same goal, same purpose. And we'd like to think similar mindsets of, hey, going after this. But it's being able to, with this, say, not to be political, but if you got conservatives, you got democrats. How do we tolerate each other to have that similar goal and that similar purpose for what we're, what we're trying to accomplish? And this speaks to the energy of that. And I can tolerate, because if we're looking at, if there's a low tolerance here, I'm not, I can't deal with anybody that is not, that doesn't think and act and do this and say the same things that I say.

[02:12] Ryan: And so that's a great, I loved how you described that. So how can you come together despite differences and accomplish the goal? And so you would think in this one that being off the charts on the high scoring on it would be a good thing. But as we talk about with the guys going into the NFL and the, those that are in the pros or about to be in the pros and the different sports we work on, this can work against you, too, right? Because we talk about, you know, you can tolerate people and mistakes too much, people taking advantage of you too much. And we see a lot of those stories of, you know, you gave your buddy money to start a restaurant and nothing happened. Well, there was probably indicators before that that that wasn't a wise move, but you tolerated those sorts of actions, you know, too much, and then you made that final mistake or you hung out with the wrong person and they, you know, did something wrong and now the police are there, and now all of a sudden you're in the news as that athlete. And, and so you tolerated that too much and people took advantage of it. And so just like on the low scoring side where, hey, you only can operate with people that think like you, talk like you, act like you. That's not always a bad thing. If you're in the right environment and the right situation where your coach operates like that and they can get the most out of you, it doesn't mean you're going to be a bad teammate. It may just mean that you're going to isolate yourself and keep to yourself. It 

[04:16] Cheney: Right. Well, I think to kind of wrap this one up, I think is you can get, if there is too much or too high level of tolerance, we see that that's, you know, you're people oriented and you're people pleaser. You just have a hard time saying no. And again, it speaks to the awareness. If you're aware of that, then, okay, now I need to do something about it now that I 

[04:43] Ryan: Absolutely. So next one is compassion and engagement. Do you want to give a stab at describing this one? Cheney?

[04:51] Cheney: Yeah. And we know compassion is being, is understanding. People come from different walks of life and having compassion for 

[06:15] Ryan: Yeah, I think where you see this sometimes is quarterback throws an interception or receiver drops a touchdown or a pitcher gives up the game winning home run. The individuals with that compassion and a high compassion and engagement are the first ones to go over and sympathize that, hey, I've been in this situation. We know it's not okay, that it's not acceptable to do those sorts of things, but we've been there. It's going to be all right. We're going to get another opportunity. And those are, that's how you can exhibit it. Right. And that's really a good example of where those people will kind of elevate and stand out.

[07:04] Cheney: And I think it's not necessarily synonymous, but I think sportsmanship is, could be, could play into this as well. I was thinking 

[07:38] Ryan: Yeah, I think, too, you know, that's a great example because I remember a Brady story about saying, you know, when you're on my team, 

[08:30] Cheney: Yeah.

[08:30] Ryan: And being there for your team to be able to execute well, that's, you.

[08:36] Cheney: Know, he speaks to, we talk about Jordan a lot, and he would manufacture or fabricate stuff from time to time. We've all seen the last dance and he was, somebody say something in the paper or he talked about one player walking off the court was like, hey, good game. And I 

[09:04] Ryan: Yeah, I think there was one, they were going out to dinner and he was walking by. George Carl said good luck or something like that.

[09:12] Cheney: Yeah, yeah.

[09:12] Ryan: And it got him so fired up. So, yeah, I mean, those stories are great, right? Last one in the people in team capacity is appropriately assertive. So I like to describe this one as knowing when to step up and when to let situations play out, knowing when to be vocal and knowing when to hang back. Let the coach handle something. And it's just having that knowledge and then executing on stepping up when the time is right.

[09:51] Cheney: There was a play, Georgia guy. Okay? It was the national championship that Georgia beat Alabama. And Alabama's close, right? I 

[11:12] Ryan: Yeah, absolutely.

[11:14] Cheney: Though.

[11:14] Ryan: People in team capacity. Tolerance to others. Compassion and engagement. Appropriately assertive. Thanks for joining us on another

How would your team or organization look if you were able to identify someone's mindset indicators and how strong or weak they were in the key areas of performance and competing? We discuss the main indicators of mindset performance, what they mean and how to use them.

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www.successbeyondgameday.com

Ryan: Welcome to shift happens athlete Mindset hacks, where we talk everything mindset development, taking lessons from the college and pro athletes, coaches and teams, we get to work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. And today we're going to talk about our mindset, performance indicators. Right. And so we just refer to them as performance indicators, but really they're how your brain processes information to then impact how you react in certain situations.

Cheney: This is going to be a very good one that I think will be very impactful because it's going to create awareness in some areas that we probably know, but we can't really articulate it or put words to it so that now we have a little bit better understanding of what these things are and how can we improve upon them.

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. So we break these into kind of four main categories. And the cool thing is we can tell how strong or, you know, how moderate or how lacking you are in some of these. And so it's important to note that, you know, just because you're strong in some doesn't mean you're going to be, you're guaranteed success in life. And just because you're weak in some mean you're going to be a failure. Right. We all have different ways that we process information and then execute that information in a physical manner on the field or in the workplace and that sort of stuff. And so this just gives a coach or an employer the information to align really the people in the right position given those position needs. So the first category that we talk about is the competition and performance capacity, right? So I like to say or think that, you know, this is really how the mind works in the heat of battle, right, leading up to battle and then as you're going through the battle or pre game planning, right. We're in football season now. So the week leading up to the game and then all of a sudden it's game time. How is your brain processing what's happening inside that game to maintain your performance? And then the next one we have is the people and team capacity. To me, this is how you interact with individuals. It doesn't mean it's good or it's bad. You could be outgoing or you could be more reserved. It's just going to tell us how, how you're going to react and interpret different situations around people. Then you have the trainability and, you know, I like to describe this as, you know, how do you adapt to the team and take feedback? You know, how are you processing what's going on inside of a certain culture. Right. Work environment or teen culture. And how are you then adding to that? Or how do you feel about that culture impacting then how you act? And then the last one is well being. And this, with the things that we measure in this, it's really how do you process struggles? Can you manage tough situations? Can you manage stress? Those types of things is really what I like to, how I like to classify the well being.

Cheney: I think we're going to be here a while because there's a lot to talk about in all four of those areas. And also how do we help people in those areas, too? Because, again, you're exactly right. You're going to have strengths and you're going to have opportunities for growth. And just cause you're strong in some doesn't mean you can't get better in it. Right.

Ryan: We could be here forever and we're not going to. The amount of information that we can tell and pull from these four categories of these performance indicators is, it's almost endless, right. And it's really how we help teams align, how we help them recruit, how we help them put people in the right positions in a corporate world or on the field or in the locker room to really build that culture and build the dynasty, right?

Cheney: No.

Ryan: So first one we're going to cover is the competition and performance capacity. So again, this is how the mind works in the heat of battle. And there's five different indicators, right? Five different performance indicators that we have in here. The first one is noticing an intuition ability. So I'm going to give a stab at describing this cheney, and then you can add to it, or me, I was wrong. Right. And so the, so noticing an intuition ability, can you read the room? Do you recognize what's happening around you? Can you read the team if things aren't going well, if someone's down, can you, can you tell the nonverbal cues and identify what's going on with them to be able then to address it? Hopefully. Can you tell if the momentum in the game is changing before the scoreboard reflects it? Maybe the easiest way is do you have an accurate gut feel on what's going on?

Cheney: You've hit the nail head there. And also, you know, it's that intuition, too, that the instincts of how to making sure that I'm positioning myself for what I'm seeing, the work that I've put in, the strategy that we've got in place, all the planning that we've done prior to watching film. Right. Have I focused on that, paid attention to it and internalized it so that when I see something happen, I've got a pretty good idea of what they're trying to do and how I, how I knew that or not from an offensive perspective is, hey, they're playing this particular defense and I know how I can exploit that, too.

Ryan: Yeah. So it's, so, again, so some of this is the intuition, right. It's just going to be a natural. But, but a lot of this can also be a learned through study, right, through watching game film. And, you know, I like, you know, you look at, let's just take football since we're in football season. You know, we talk about Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, these guys that just study what the other team is doing. You know, they had high, if I had the guests, they would be high on this noticing, an intuition ability.

Cheney: Yeah.

Ryan: Anyway, but they can also enhance it by all the film that they're watching. And so on the flip side, then you could be lower in this and enhance that by watching the film repeatedly so that it's, it's kind of ingrained in that muscle memory for the, for the game coming up ahead.

Cheney: No, that's exactly right. I saw a clip the other day. It was the Panthers and Cam Newton was quarterback and they were close to the scoring. And Cam's going through his signals and positioning everybody. And one of the defenders says something, cam picks it up and kind of laughs. He was like, okay, you've been watching film, now watch this. And he makes a tweet to the play and they score a touchdown. So there's that noticing, too, and that understanding strategically of, hey, they've been watching this, they know how to defend it. And we've got a little wrinkle here that is going to help us be able to beat that.

Ryan: All right, so the next one then we can get into is the strategic planning and vision. So I like to say this one is, can you, and also, do you enjoy identifying a game plan? And it's not just putting a game plan together, but it's also plan B, C, D and so on. Right. Can you be that coach on the field if that intuition. Right. The noticing, an intuition ability shows you like that, your example, Cam Newton. Can you, can you process that information and then come up with the strategy to counter what you're seeing? And so this one, you know, again, do you, can you do it? A lot of people can do it, but it's also, do you enjoy doing it? Because a lot of times you'll put more effort into the things that that you enjoy.

Cheney: Right. And some people may not be interested in this. It's like, hey, what's my job? I'm going to do my job. I want to know what everybody else is doing, too, but I want to what's, what's right in front of me, and I want to take care of that. And then you, you guys handle that big picture stuff. Just tell me where to be and who to hit.

Ryan: Absolutely. Yeah. And so you can have good players on, on with both that are high or low in this. In this performance indicator. It doesn't mean they're, you know, good or bad.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: It could get indication of leadership and not necessarily one of those vocal leaders. It could be a locker room leader that helps the team understand what's going on. Right. It could be those leaders that are, you know, don't necessarily get the attention that, you know, the captains get, but they're helping people process what's going on so that everyone can be in the right place at the right time to execute that strategy. And so, again, another example, it's not good or it's not bad, but having too many of those strategic planning high on that in a locker room or in a position group could create a conflict. Right. Because everybody may not agree on the plan. And so it's understanding who you have, what pieces you have, so that you can put them in the right positions.

Cheney: Right. Like too many cooks in the kitchen.

Ryan: Exactly. And that can hurt. Right. And so you need both sides of it. And it's important to understand who you have that can help be, again, either that outward captain type person or that inner, you know, inner position group, inner team leader that can help, you know, the behind the scenes, the locker room coaching, those sorts of things.

Cheney: That's right. And again, you make, I want to reiterate this point, too, and it's not good or bad to not be strong in this area. Right. Because you think about it, growing up, we're not necessarily taught how to be visionary, big picture, strategic thinkers. It's, hey, be a good friend, be a good classmate, be a good teammate. Right. Or get your work done, you know, keep your nose clean, do your work. And those are the things that were really kind of ingrained in us, is those two things more on the personal side and then that kind of work task, the detail oriented side. Not necessarily, hey, think about this from a long term perspective, right? So you're a catcher, but you got to call your games, right? Not all, especially at the high school level, very few. I mean, even in the pro level you got pitching coaches calling games, so I can go down a rabbit hole with that. But there's. There's a lot to say with, hey, let's train these young people and how to see the big picture, looking at things critically. But how do I get from a to z and knowing that I can't jump b to get to y to get to z, though?

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. All right, so number three performance indicator in the competition and performance capacity is taking strategic action. And so this one, I like to say, is your ability to take the game plan, whether you came up with it or not. But to be able to take that game plan and without help or a tremendous amount of coaching, be able to identify what actions need to happen in order to execute that game plan with.

Cheney: High quality, this speaks to having a very deep understanding of what the game plan is and what the purpose behind it is. Right. So if we know that, hey, Greg Maddox, for example, would throw a pitch in the second 3rd inning to set you up for something, he could throw you in the 7th and 8th inning and know that you're going to be thinking about the second 3rd inning pitch, and he's going. He's going to switch it up on you because he knew, hey, I've set you up here, and I'm going to be able to go here late in the game, and I'm gonna get you out.

Ryan: Yep. And that's a great example. And I think, you know, another one that you just take off the field. Right? You have the Tom Brady, who wanted to play until he was 45 and at 35, said, hey, I need to be able to physically get to that point. And so he was able to help come up with that strategy, that vision for what he wanted to be able to do. But then he was able to do and take that strategic action to where his workouts were different, what he put in his body was different. And he didn't have to have that. He did have a coach, but it was that initiative to say, hey, I need to take these steps in order to achieve this vision. I don't need someone to push me. I'm going to be able to understand it and push myself to execute on the right things.

Cheney: That's right. When, you know, you think about. We talk about Jordan a lot, too, you know, he wasn't the best shooter, good shooter, but that wasn't his game. His game is, hey, I'm driving to the basket, I'm getting fouled, I'm hitting free throws. And I read something yesterday, saw a clip yesterday about Dwayne Wade, similarly, that was his game. It's like, hey, I'm taking you off for dribble. I'm gonna get to the basket, hit some free throws. And he realized, as did Jordan, okay, I've got to improve as I get older. I can't take this physical beating of trying to get to the basket. So I've got to figure out other ways to improve my game to this gonna benefit a team. And that's where they worked on the long range shooting. Yeah, three point shooting, and got. They got better and very efficient as well.

Ryan: Yep. Perfect. All right, so the next performance indicator is problem solving, pace, and quality. So I would define this as your ability to adapt when things aren't going well, adjust what you need to do, and then execute those adjustments with high quality results without having to come out of the game and have the coach tell you what to do. So can you process what's going on, adjust, and still have high quality results? And so this would be, you know, to me, a good example is a good hitter, right, a Barry bonds or, you know, someone that, you know, big home run power hitter, that they're thinking fastball is coming, they see, they notice that it's curveball, and they're able to adjust their swing and still hit that home run. So they can still execute on that high result, but they're able to adjust very, very quickly and maintain those results that they're seeking.

Cheney: I want to say he did something bond, something similar to what Maddox did, where he'd swing over the top of something and kind of make himself look foolish at the plate, setting you up for that pitch later on in the game, where, hey, I think I can get him on this because I got him earlier, or he looked bad earlier at the plate, and now he's sitting on that thing and he hits it into the. Into the bay.

Ryan: Yeah, well, you mentioned. You mentioned something. I think, you know, we talk about those players that are at that elite level. So a maddox, a bonds, a Brady, a manning, and. And they have a lot of these, you know, they are. They tend to be higher on. On a lot of these performance indicators, and. But their focus, their strategy is so far beyond the mindset, the mental game that they're playing is so far beyond what everybody else is playing, that it's almost like they're nothing even playing the same game.

Cheney: Right, right. They're playing a game of one.

Ryan: Exactly. And so, you know, we always talk about the game being 90% mental and 10% physical. And I think, especially as you elevate into higher levels of play. Right. So you go from high school to college, right. And you're. Now you're on the field or on the court, and you're playing. That's elevated. You've weeded out the talent or the less talented physically individuals, as you then step up into the higher divisions, and then all of a sudden, you're at pro or Olympic, the physical side of it tends to even out, which is where you get that 90% mental, 10% physical. But how do you then develop that mental side of it in order to, you know, be playing a different game than everyone else? And when you look at goats, it's not. I mean, you look at a Brady and a manning and a maddox. You know, physically, they're, you know, they look like us.

Cheney: Right, right.

Ryan: And so it's. It's not that physically, they're operating on such a level that they're just that much talented, and that's why they're getting the results. It's mentally, they're operating on a different level. And so how can you, as an athlete, even down to high school, get on that page? How can you develop that in order to excel and get to the levels that you want to get to?

Cheney: Well, I think there's two things. One, it's you got to have full self awareness, right? What your capabilities are. Again, not to cap yourself, but you understand what you can do and areas improvement that you can get better at. But also, it's understanding the game, too. And I think that's the big ticket is, hey, I understand how this game works and the games within the game, but that's why I think, you know, both of us being baseball guys, there's. There's so many games within the game of baseball. But that's also inherent with all sports, right? There are games within all the games. And so it's understanding, okay, what are we trying to do offensively? What are they trying to do defensively? And how do I best strategize to beat that or put ourselves in the best position to be successful? So it's understanding of self, but also, I got to understand the game that I'm playing as well.

Ryan: All right, number five on the competition and performance capacity category. So the performance indicator, number five, focus ability. How well do you perform under high energy, high stress with a lot on the line situations? So games on the line, you know, performing in the first, second, and third quarter is one thing, but when there's two minutes left in the game and you need a. A touchdown in order to win, how are you going to be able to react? Are you going to be able to process and, you know, get in that zone and execute at a high level or are you going to let that all affect you? Are you going to let it diminish your physical output?

Cheney: Yeah, absolutely. I think also it goes to the preparation, right. We were talking to a coach, what, a month or so ago, and he was talking about one of his athletes wanted to play division one basketball, but what the output or the focus, just how this athlete was conducting himself was not at a d one level. And the coach pointed that out to him because it was just, there was just a lack of focus in the practice setting. And that's where we really have to hone in on the ability to focus, because once we get into the game situation, like Jordan said, look, I just want to react when I get to that point. I've done it. I've already done the hard work over here, so that now all I have to do is just react to it.

Ryan: Competition performance capacity. Five performance indicators. Mindset performance indicators. Noticing an intuition ability, strategic planning and vision. Taking strategic action, problem solving, pace and quality and focus ability. And so coaches use this to help bring the right people in, whether it's free agents, whether it's recruits, high school recruits that they're bringing in. They use this information to help culturally map their players, their teams so that they can identify who's in the right position. Am I overweighted on, like we mentioned earlier, the strategic planning in a certain position group, do I not have that in a needed position group? Do I need to find someone that has that? What parts do I need from a mental and a mindset standpoint? Do I need to add or shift around in order to have balance within my organization? And that could be on, within a team, athletic team. But at the corporate level, we see a lot of times people that are in management or leadership positions that they shouldn't be, or they're in a certain department that they would have success or higher success in another department that aligns with their skill sets. And so this is how individuals use this information, again, to map out recruiting, hiring, all that sort of, all that sort of stuff.

Cheney: Yeah. And I think that's why what we're so passionate about here is helping to identify leaders and, and bring them up. And how do we, how do we, how do we coach them up? Right. And that's what we get to do on a day to day basis, whether it's an athlete or a coach or administrator or somebody that's looking to take over a CEO position.

Ryan: Absolutely. Hey, thank you for joining us on shift. Happen. I'm Ryan. This is Cheney. We'll see you next time.

Winning means different things to different people but how you describe it using only one word can tell us a tremendous amount of information about you and how you chase goals and opportunity.

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[00:05] Ryan: Welcome to shift happens where we talk everything, mindset, development, taking lessons from the college and pro athletes, coaches and teams we work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. And today we're talking about what winning means to you in 

[00:51] Cheney: Again, having a little bit of background in it. The, I'm going to answer that. But then there's a second answer also. First, without any background of this, I would have said everything. Winning is everything. 

[01:34] Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. My immediate answer was everything.

[01:37] Speaker C: Right.

[01:39] Ryan: And then when I was listening to it and they were talking about some of the people, there were two people that this trainer had worked with that said the same thing.

[01:51] Speaker C: Right.

[01:52] Ryan: And this is probably as close as you and I will ever get to being in the sphere of these two gentlemen. Jordan and Kobe.

[02:03] Speaker C: Right.

[02:04] Ryan: MJ and Kobe Bryant. They said everything.

[02:07] Speaker C: Right.

[02:08] Ryan: And the psychological breakdown of. All right, well, why do we ask this question? What does it tell us? What does that one word tell us?

[02:20] Speaker C: Right.

[02:20] Ryan: Because how much could you learn from one word? Most people would say not a lot.

[02:25] Speaker C: Right.

[02:26] Ryan: You need the context and all that kind of stuff. Well, it breaks down kind of the three types of people.

[02:35] Speaker C: Right.

[02:35] Ryan: And you could classify those three types of people. Cooler, closer and cleaner.

[02:41] Speaker C: Right.

[02:44] Ryan: Good. Great. Unstoppable.

[02:46] Speaker C: Right.

[02:47] Ryan: Cooler, good. Clothes are great. Cleaner, unstoppable coolers, which are good.

[02:54] Speaker C: Right.

[02:54] Ryan: They're good is kind of the adjective that they go along with. They allow life to happen.

[02:59] Speaker C: Right.

[03:00] Ryan: They'll make the best out of what happens to them. Great.

[03:04] Speaker C: Right.

[03:05] Ryan: The clothes are great. They decide what they want, and then they're going to say when they get it, they're going to say, hey, that's great. Good enough. I achieved what my goal was. I'm good enough cleaner, which is that unstoppable. They don't necessarily, they can't define success.

[03:24] Speaker C: Right.

[03:25] Ryan: Because that bar, it keeps on moving for them. So it's that and a lot of times that it torments them.

[03:33] Speaker C: Right, right.

[03:34] Ryan: Because the bar keeps moving because they keep seeing how it can get bigger, how they can get better, and it's something that they're never going to be able to achieve yet. They're going to continue to try. And so, you know, identifying these people. Right, the cooler, again, none of these are bad.

[03:55] Speaker C: Right.

[03:56] Ryan: The world takes all the people. Your team has, you know, if you're lucky, has, has the cleaner on it, but is probably made up of coolers and closers.

[04:07] Speaker C: Right.

[04:08] Ryan: But it's a person that if you give a job to, you're going to get the desired result.

[04:15] Speaker C: Right.

[04:16] Ryan: You're going to get what, what you expect out of them. You're not going to get anything above and beyond. It's not going to be that extraordinary. The desired result will be satisfactory to them.

[04:28] Speaker C: Right.

[04:29] Ryan: And it, and it's basically, it borders on what you asked for. So they're gonna, they're gonna be coachable. They're gonna do what you ask them to do. They're gonna give what you ask them to give.

[04:37] Speaker C: Right.

[04:39] Ryan: A closer, which is the level above cooler closers are people that can, you can give a task and they're going to, they're gonna deliver results, great results.

[04:52] Speaker C: Right.

[04:53] Ryan: So you're going to say, hey, you know, this is what my expectation is and they're going to deliver above that expectation. They're going to do that the majority of the time as long as there's not too many hurdles or variables that get in the way.

[05:09] Speaker C: Right.

[05:09] Ryan: So if a job gets too complicated or if, you know, they're going to perform well through the season, but if there's too many bad games or too many bad calls, that's going to impact how the result that you're going to get.

[05:24] Cheney: Yeah.

[05:26] Ryan: And then you have the cleaners.

[05:30] Speaker C: Right.

[05:30] Ryan: So they're so well prepared. They don't think, they just do. And they're able to do that because of the preparation that they put in.

[05:39] Speaker C: Right.

[05:39] Ryan: They've gamed every scenario in their head and they're able to react very quickly with high level results. They spend hours and hours and a lot of times, years and years getting prepared. Right. They know where they're trying to get to and they knew that early on and they put in that time, no matter what's thrown at them, they're going to deliver results all the time. At all times, they're going to deliver over and over and over and over again. It's a repeat. You can expect the results at a high, high level. Their instincts are dead on. And I would say that instincts are probably the result of really good preparation. And so again, the preparation aspect comes in so they know how to react in situations. They've seen it before. They've watched the film over and over again.

[06:38] Speaker C: Right.

[06:39] Ryan: So they're not caught off guard. No matter what the variable, what the problem is that's thrown at them. They, again, they have the ability to adjust and they're able to get in that zone.

[06:51] Speaker C: Right.

[06:52] Ryan: So like I mentioned, most, most people, the majority of people are coolers, right. A small percentage are cleaners. And if you're lucky, sorry. Most are coolers, a small percentage are closers. And if you're lucky, you have at least one cleaner on your team.

[07:16] Cheney: Yeah.

[07:16] Ryan: And so think back because I'm curious, the teams that you were a part of, right. The good ones, the bad ones, are you. How many, how many cleaners do you think you played with?

[07:32] Cheney: Well, high school basketball, we had a, we had a cleaner. I mean, the guy could score. He was averaging 30 a gain. So, so basically it was, and it was necessarily a, hey, give him the ball, get out of the way. He got other, the rest of us involved in it, too. But if it, if it was a close game, then we knew, hey, ball needs to be in, hit in this guy's hands. Right. Um, because he can, he, he can shoot it, but he also can get to the basket, too, and create. Right. So, definitely had a cleaner there at our little, at our little high school level that I played at in south Georgia. You know, baseball, we were, we had a couple guys that I guess could be considered cleaners, and not that I would have put myself in that, in that role, but I will put my brother in there, who as a freshman, again, small high school, but hit over 500 as a freshman. Right. He goes to another boarding school in Florida and hits almost 500 there his junior year, which. It's baseball. Well, all recruits, we know the junior year is a big, big year for recruiting. So he hit 475, nine homers, a bunch of RBI's. You know, he ends up going to Florida. But you see, and he's playing against some elite competition. I mean, he's playing against those pitchers that, you know, these guys are going and playing d one, too. So I've, I've seen it. And he played with. Well, his senior year. He didn't play football that, that year. He played his junior year but didn't play a senior year, all for that football team, which at the beginning of the season was USA Today number one. They were number one team in the country the entire year. Right. Nine. Nine guys went inside, signed division one football scholarships.

[09:35] Ryan: Wow. Wow.

[09:36] Cheney: So there's, you know, we've been around it. Now, did I play with anybody that got to the next level? Not. I didn't play with. I played against. I hit against John Rocker once, got hit, so I was. Yeah, we'll leave that at that. But that was the only major league picture that I ever faced. So again, my baseball was not as, the level of competition was not like what, what you probably played against and what my brother played against in regards to, you know, they're being cleaners.

[10:14] Ryan: Yeah.

[10:15] Speaker C: Yeah.

[10:15] Ryan: I think. I think a really good example of a cleaner. This year's College World Series with University of Tennessee Christian Moore.

[10:27] Cheney: Yeah.

[10:28] Ryan: I think if you want to see what that looks like expressed in physical performance, it was him.

[10:37] Speaker C: Right.

[10:37] Ryan: I mean, he stepped it up to a next level where when downing games or tied in games and he got up to bat, you knew he was about to do something.

[10:50] Speaker C: Right.

[10:51] Ryan: It didn't matter the situation. It didn't matter who he was facing. He delivered.

[10:56] Speaker C: Right.

[10:56] Ryan: It's. It's someone that can. And he did that throughout the year.

[11:00] Speaker C: Right.

[11:00] Ryan: And so it didn't matter the situation. What events were, you know, thrown at him, the variables that came into play, he delivered.

[11:09] Speaker C: Right.

[11:10] Ryan: And time in, time out. I think that's a really good recent, really good example. I mean, you look at, again, a Tom Brady and some of the legends. Right. That we talk about, but, you know, if you give them the ball, that something good is going to happen.

[11:29] Cheney: Yeah.

[11:30] Speaker C: Right.

[11:30] Ryan: And it didn't matter what the situation was. You know, the Super bowl come back against the Falcons.

[11:35] Speaker C: Right.

[11:36] Ryan: You know, having the, having the, you know, the, you know, fourth quarter game winning drives, you know, you think of Peyton Manning, all those types of, you know, when, when they had the ball in that situation, you just knew they were going to deliver as, as the opponent. You were almost discouraged because you're like, oh, man, you know, they're, I know they're on their five yard line and they only have a, you know, 90 seconds left in the game, but this thing's over. They're going to win. And it was that mindset that they, that they drove into you.

[12:09] Speaker C: Right.

[12:11] Ryan: So can you do. Good question here. Can you develop, in your opinion, a cooler into a closer? Closer into a cleaner? Do you think you can, can develop that?

[12:28] Cheney: Yes and no. And I think it goes back to beliefs. If the cooler or the closer believes that they can be better, then. Yeah, absolutely. You can, you can come alongside them and help get them to be like, get them to that cleaner level. But they've got to believe it first because if they, if they don't, then obviously. Yeah, there's that. They're there. Their peak there. They've hit their ceiling. Yeah, I think you definitely can. I'll come back to Christian Moore, too, and it was funny watching their Tennessee season this past year. As, as Christian went, the team went, if he had a good game, then more times than not at a very high clip, they won ball game. But if he was over three, over four, then it was a close ball game and, you know, there was a chance that they may not pull it out. I mean, look at the, you know, game two, if I remember correctly. I don't think he had a, he didn't have very good game at the plate.

[13:29] Ryan: Right.

[13:29] Cheney: And he ended up, ended up losing that game. Now you come back for the rubber match and, you know, Christian Moore shows up, Tennessee ends up winning the ball game.

[13:42] Speaker C: Yeah.

[13:42] Ryan: They go down. It was the first game of the a and M series.

[13:45] Speaker C: Right.

[13:45] Ryan: For the national championship where he did so a and m one. And then the second game aethereze up to bat first gets, gets a, gets a run. Home run.

[13:58] Speaker C: Right.

[13:58] Ryan: So now it's one nothing. He shows up his first at bat and hits one. I think it went completely out of the stadium and from it on, it flipped.

[14:10] Speaker C: Right.

[14:11] Ryan: So he inspired confidence.

[14:13] Cheney: Yeah. So they meant they lost the first game, not the, not the second. Yeah.

[14:18] Ryan: So I would say, I think youre born in one of those categories. Whether, you know, where you are is a different thing. And if you're, if 

[14:48] Cheney: Right.

[14:49] Ryan: You can get developed in those areas. But to me, there's something that, you know, there's a switch in there that you either have or you don't. And whether that you're born with it or it was nurtured or driven into you early on in life, I think by the time you get to the high school, college and pro level, you either have it or you don't. And so I would say born with it or very early on developed. But you can develop, once you're in those categories into stronger, and that can be worked on.

[15:30] Cheney: And I think the big ticket here is just having awareness of it. Because if I'm aware of it now, I know what I need to do. If I've got 

[16:18] Ryan: That one word, that one word can deliver so much information and understanding as a coach, as a GM, what that word, you know, what the response is and what that actually says about the organization. If you have the right people in the right places, it's amazing how one word can do that. So, hey, thanks everybody for joining us. Another episode of Shift happens, helping athletes with their mindset hacks.

Jamie Dimon, CEO of Chase Bank, talks about the three leadership characteristics that dictate if you will be successful or not. Do you need to be born with them or can they be developed?

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The brain's capability is remarkable. It has the ability to take fact and turn it to fiction without us being consciously aware it's happening. This process keeps us from achieving and becoming who and what we are capable of.

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Ryan: Welcome back to shift happens. I'm Ryan Shockner. This is Cheney Robinson and talking about athlete mindset hacks. And today we're talking about some statistics that we saw that really help put in perspective what's going on inside of our head, how it actually operates, 

[01:49] Cheney: There you go.

[01:49] Ryan: But things we've lived through or experienced drama, things we're going through right now or have witnessed bad events, that sort of stuff, our dad or our mom or those closest around us. Right. And so park that. What that means is the majority of our thoughts are, and that are limiting. Beliefs are not necessarily because we're limited on what we can do. It were beliefs that were imparted on us from others based on what they thought they were limited for. And so just play that out as generations prior to you, right. So if your parents and you're close surrounded, right. Well, they had people that impacted them. Who had people that impacted them. And it just gets bigger and bigger of, you know, the message being you're not smart enough to do this or you're not smart enough to do that or, you know, we, we come from this area. That's not what we're all about or you can't, you're not strong enough. And it's your thing, like you like.

[03:16] Cheney: In what's the name of the movie with it was Rudy Rudiger and.

[03:21] Ryan: Rudy Rudiger.

[03:22] Cheney: Right. Rudy. That's the name of it. You know, they're sitting on the. Sitting on the bench with. And he's like, we're Rudigers. And it's basically was like, we don't go do big stuff. We just put our nose to the grindstone. We do what we do, but we don't do anything outside of this.

[03:39] Ryan: And it's all ****. It's all ****. Right, right. And so, so 4 billion are firing, and 80% of it is. Is junk. That isn't even a good chin on what we're capable of or what we're not capable of. It's. It's somebody else's. And so we're letting these things impact how, you know, what chances we take, how we show up, whether we seize an opportunity or not. And I just think, like, if you eliminate that, what could humanity. Right? I mean, forget about the athletic field. What could humanity accomplish?

[04:32] Cheney: Well, it's infinite. I mean, there's just. I mean, we can. We can't begin to fathom what the possibilities are there. Right. But hearing the. Hearing these numbers, too, it makes you wonder, how do we get and get out of bed in the morning, right. Because you got generations of stuff that have been piled on us. Right? You're not. You can't do this. You can't do that. You know, that's not going to work. That's never been done. But you think about Prefontaine, four minute mile. Nobody had ever done it until he did. Right. And now. Okay, it's been done. Okay. I can go do both. So he.

[05:10] Ryan: Yeah, I saw he had to unpack.

[05:11] Cheney: A whole bunch of stuff. Right. To be able to run him to break the four minute mile.

[05:17] Ryan: Yep. Because you. Absolutely.

[05:19] Cheney: Just. All the stuff that's on Pac packed on him, his coaches, the fact that nobody had ever done it before, it's like, it can't be done. Okay. Yep. Watch this. Hold my beer.

[05:32] Ryan: And I saw a stat the other day that said it was like 97 or 98% of people are just robotically going through life. Right? So, yeah, it's a miracle 

[06:32] Cheney: Yeah.

[06:32] Ryan: And before he even got to the University of Tennessee, you know, he was from Atlanta. Two bedroom house, 14 people living in it. Once a week he got to sleep in an actual bed, but it was with all his cousins, so it wasn't even, you know, him alone in a bed. He had to shake out his backpack to get the roaches out of it before he got on the bus.

[06:58] Cheney: His little sliver of the cushion. Yeah.

[07:01] Ryan: I mean, and, but otherwise they were sleeping on crates on the floor, right? And he went to the worst performing high school in Atlanta. It was called crim High school. And the nickname of it was prime high, right? And so there was a point where he performed well athletically. His parents moved him to a better performing high school and that, and they said, hey, if you perform athletically here, we guarantee you a scholarship to the University of Georgia, right? So he was forced to go there, injured himself, couldn't play that season, and begged his parents to let him go back to crime high, right, criminal high school. And nobody could understand it. And he, so when he walked in, the security guard, right, they're doing the metal detector, and he goes, hey, son, what are you doing here? Or something like that. And he goes, what are you going to accomplish? And he goes, I'm going to go d one. And the security guard laughed and he goes, no, you're probably going to go to cell block one, right? Because that was the reputation. Nobody had ever gone, graduated and gone to a d one program athletically out of that high school, right? And so what he wanted to do was prove that it could be done. And it wasn't about him. It was his cousins, his, you know, his family that was coming up behind him that that would have been a statistic but now have accomplished stuff in their life because he, he showed that it could be done. Right. It was all that. So if you look at that, just that story, all that negative context, the environment he grew up in, even the attitude of the security guard of, you're coming here, you're not going to accomplish anything. All that negativity and limiting beliefs and, and he was able to box that out and, and focus on achieving, accomplishing the goal, right?

[09:17] Cheney: Yeah.

[09:17] Ryan: And, and so it could be done. Right. And there's stories of it, of it being done, but it's really, really difficult to do because of how the brain works. If we have to be able to identify what those false stories are before 

[10:40] Cheney: Well, and it's important stuff that we're doing, too. And I don't mean to downplay it by calling it stuff. It's.

[10:46] Ryan: It.

[10:47] Cheney: This is a lot bigger than that of. And I was thinking about that this morning, too, before we started recording, was, what is your definition of success? We got to define that because for you, it could be winning a ball game or it could be performing well on a test, and that's success. Or is it much more minute than that? And Saban and coach wooden would tell you it's success is winning, and whatever is in front of you right now. So whatever play this. This play, winning that play, and that's success.

[11:30] Ryan: Yeah.

[11:31] Cheney: So is it? You know, again, it could be achieving a goal is success. Okay. But there's a lot of steps that went into achieving that goal. There were a lot of little successes along the way that ultimately got to you. Got you to that.

[11:47] Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's perfect. Right? So it's focusing on little steps that achieve you to the larger goal, and. But. But as athletes, you know, we always kind of struggle as we. As we leave athletics, leave competitive athletics, and we enter this real world, and we think that, hey, 

[13:43] Cheney: Yeah.

[13:44] Ryan: Hopefully, hopefully the, the guy in front of me goes deeper into the count. So gives me a little bit of time and, and we can get this thing taken care of. So, so everyone, you know, the warm ups happen and, and I get my ankle taped up and shoes back on, and all of a sudden I hear the clink of the bat. Well, first pitch, strike. The guy, you know, gets a single, so now he's on first. I don't even have my batting glows, right? I haven't, I haven't done, I don't have a helmet. I gotta find it, right? Everyone's looking like, why isn't somebody on deck, you know, shoes finally getting tied? And so I get up there, no practice swings, you know, velcroing the batting gloves, and, and then I, and I go deep into, into this. I think there was something like twelve or 13 foul balls, right?

[14:33] Cheney: Yeah.

[14:34] Ryan: Those hurting. It was back in the day where, where you didn't have the even batter's box, right? But, so when you dig in, like there you were batting in holes and all this type of stuff.

[14:43] Cheney: Yeah, yeah.

[14:45] Ryan: I mean, and the stands were packed, so everyone's screaming, we've got a guy on first, right? So then I get my pitch, and it's a line shot that goes over the second baseman, splits the center fielder, and right fielder rolls to the wall, right? So I'm hobbling around the bases, the guy on first score, right? I'm hobbling around and I make it into third. Should have been an inside the park home run, right? But he ended up pulling ahead. 

[16:26] Cheney: Yeah.

[16:27] Ryan: And it could be where I let that story be told. Right, right. So it's. It's. It's so it can be done. And that's one example that I carry to this day of. You know, just because you've done it in athletics doesn't mean it has to stay in that silo. It can apply into life after.

[16:47] Cheney: No, it definitely, definitely transitions over. And, you know, I've heard this before, too, and it may have been Jordan that said, it's like I never lost a game. I just ran out of time. Right. And it's so it's that, again, it's 

[18:01] Ryan: 100%. 100%. Yeah. And it can be done. And, you know, if we think about, you know, practice. Right. The practice that we've had growing up and the practices we've gone to and watched of the teams that we've worked with at all levels, it. If you have 100%. Right. How much of that. Of that time that we're watching practice and that they're with the coaches is spent on the. The physical aspect of what they're doing?

[18:33] Cheney: Oh, majority of it.

[18:36] Ryan: I mean, almost 100%. Right. Outside of game planning and recognizing schemes and that sort of stuff. Right. Well, if the game is 90% 

[18:54] Cheney: It does, yeah. You should spend spending your time on the incorrect stuff. You're not spending your time wisely, basically. And I laugh 

[19:54] Ryan: Yeah. And it's the brain. Right. It's the mindset and that's the separator. But a lot of, with those guys specifically, it's breaking down 

[20:58] Cheney: And you talked about it, too, in your bestseller book of getting out of that mindset and breaking the generational cycles.

[21:07] Ryan: Yeah. Yep. It can be done. You just have to want to do it. And you gotta. You gotta erase the bad stuff, rewrite the stories. And it's as easy as that. Another episode. Thank you very much for joining. Shift happens. Athletes mindset. Hacks how to get better. Not just on the field, but off the

Who you hang out with and what you listen to has more of an impact on your performance than you think. Check out this episode where we break down how the circle of friends you keep and either elevate you or hold you back.

[email protected]

www.successbeyondgameday.com

Ryan: Welcome back to Shift happens. Here's another episode of Athlete Mindset Hacks. I'm Ryan, this is Cheney. And today we're looking at a study that we picked up on. Right. And this is talking about the circle or the company you keep. But the amount of data that they collected on the performance and who you hang out with is really remarkable. So the study that we looked at that we found there was 48,000 plus hours of work that was monitored.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: So 48,000 and then some hours of just observing people working. Okay. And what they identified was that if you sat within 25 of a top performer, you had 15% boost in performance simply by sitting within 25ft of this performer. Right. But on the flip side, then you had, if you sat within 25ft of a poor performer, your productivity decreased by 30%. Right. 48,000 plus hours of work monitored.

Speaker C: Right.

Ryan: Different companies all over the place. So put that in perspective. That's over 13 years. If you're working ten hour days, working 365 days a year. Right. Over 13 years of hours monitored. And if you sat with 25ft of a top performer, your performance increased 15%. Within 25ft of a poor performer, yours went down 30%.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: Your skill level stayed the same. All that stayed the same. But your output, your performance either went up or went down. Right. And so I thought this was really remarkable.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: Because. Especially because your skill level didn't necessarily increase.

Cheney: Yeah.

Ryan: So when I tell you about the study, Cheney, what are your, what are your thoughts on that?

Cheney: I was blown away by this.

Speaker C: Right.

Cheney: You know, obviously we want to surround ourselves with the top performers.

Speaker C: Right.

Cheney: My, my brother, three years younger, always played with my age group.

Speaker C: Right.

Cheney: So he was surrounded by bigger, stronger, faster, older athletes. And there's only one thing you can do there. You either get better or you don't. You don't get to participate.

Speaker C: Right.

Cheney: So it improved his performance and his productivity. His output.

Speaker C: Right.

Cheney: What blows me away is that it doubled. On the negative side, if you were not, if you were playing, let's say you're playing with lesser competition, you're competing against lesser competition. But you could see that too. Even as a. I was thinking back as my high school basketball team, if we played against a superior team, our level of play ramped up. Now, if we were playing a lesser quality team, they were all good teams, then we just weren't quite as focused and we just kind of kicked it around a little bit. But again, it blows me away that it doubles the productivity doubles on the negative side, just being within 25ft of a poor, poorer performer.

Ryan: Yeah, I think there's really good examples of this, right? I think so. One thing I did, because I was like, let me put some math to this. Let me put some numbers to this, is I went back and I looked at the Bulls, right, with Michael Jordan and all that, and he's not known for being the warmest or friendliest teammate, but performance was this thing, right? He could perform. And so I was, I was thinking, all right, there. There at that time, was not a better performer on the basketball court. So let's look at what his teammates, how they produced, right? So with, with Michael Jordan. Scottie Pippen. Right? So arguably number two in that average 17.1 points per game, right? And without Michael Jordan, he averaged 15 points. Steve Kerr averaged with Michael Jordan, 8.1 points per game. Without Michael Jordan, 5.3 points per game. Kuko was probably the closest to maintaining performance, right. 13.2 with and 13 without John Paxson. 8.2 with, 5.2 without. Right. So it was seen, right. It was there.

Cheney: Right.

Ryan: The data played out that, hey, this was pretty, pretty just being in proximity to them. And then I go to an interview. I heard, this is an old interview, but it was after Tom Brady Washington retired, right? So he sat down and it was one of the last questions he gave that he answered in the interview. And it was about what type of relationship he had. Did he have friends that were on other teams in the league? And he said, now I do, right? But I had to create something in my head where it. I had to hate them for something, right? And even if I had to make it up. Right? And what he didn't understand was all these players now are all buddies and. And they're all friends on and off the field and all that sort of thing. And he was saying he didn't understand that.

Cheney: Right?

Ryan: And so I went and I looked at who I consider the top athletes. They all kind of maintained that Siloede lifestyle, right. They created and helped elevate those around them that were on their team. But the second they weren't on the team, the mindset was, I need to be the best I can be so for my teammates so they can get the next contract, so that they can. And I can't be buddy buddy with everyone. And so I just, you know, the math backed it up and I just did one sport. But I think if you look at any sport and you look at the great that it played with, it's going to be across the board.

Cheney: Yeah. No, no. I saw something a couple weeks ago interview, and they were talking about Roger Clemens, and they were talking about an all star weekend, all star game, and Clemens is in the locker room. And basically what they, they were alluding to was exactly what you said. Like, even at an all star game in the locker room, Roger was still siloed because he understood, hey, this is two days, right? I don't need to be buddy buddy with these guys in two days because come Tuesday or Wednesday, you know, if I need to throw at you, I don't want anything getting in the way of that. Now with him, nothing get in the way of that because he would throw at you if you looked at him wrong. But that was exactly what you're talking about. It was. I don't, I'm not, I'm not. I don't have time to be buddy buddy. I've got a job I've got to do. And just because we're in the locker room for a ball game doesn't mean, you know, it's not as important as getting ready in September for making a run in October.

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, for me, it was easier to do that inside, inside the locker room on the team. Right. But where, where I slipped at times, and I think a lot of athletes slipped, a lot of the pro athletes we worked with. I mean, this was one of the main things we addressed with the guys that went to through the combine this year that we worked with. Washington, your biggest threat is your tolerance of others and who you let in your circle. And I think that's a lot of times the hardest one to overcome, to process of. I've had, these guys have been my boys, or this has been my circle for so long. But now you're getting ready to enter a different world, and you're faced with that decision of, how do I cut some of these people out of my life, right. And that's how the lens that they look through it in. And I just think that that's just probably the wrong perspective on how to view that. Right. I think, you know, you've heard the. We're both baseball guys, so you can't steal second with your foot on first. Well, you can't. You can't elevate and get where you need to get to as you enter different arenas by hanging on and pulling people, you know, from. From the past with you. It just can't. It can't. Both cannot be done. But what that doesn't mean is you all of a sudden, one day, stop talking to them. Right?

Cheney: Yeah.

Ryan: It's. It's. You need to mirror what the people that you look up to are doing right. You need to start operating in those circles in order to learn how to operate right at that next level and excel at the next level. Because, again, the goal isn't to make it to the pros or to make it to college. That the goal is to excel and play and stay there as long as you can.

Cheney: That's right. And that's when that's, you know, again, you talked about us being baseball guys. I had a decent freshman year in college, right. But coaches are recruiting. They're trying to replace me coming in, you know, my sophomore year, they're trying to bring somebody in underneath me who's better, and they should be doing that. It's my job to make sure that I'm not replaceable, that I keep a spot.

Speaker C: Right.

Cheney: And I think that's where it speaks to just expectations for self and having that understanding of, hey, this is what I have higher and much more. I expect more out of myself than anybody else will.

Ryan: Yeah, Jeff. Yeah, I've got a good. Got a good example. And I know we give a lot of sports examples, but this one was from, you know, I started in the. In the personal finance financial advising industry, and I moved to a city where I knew zero people. And I started at a firm, and there were, you know, a handful, probably three or four of the, you know, 40 or 50 people that were there that were just elite in their production and their staff and all that sort of stuff. Right. And there was one of them that was difficult to get along with, didn't have many friends inside the firm, and I just kind of started attaching myself to him. Right. I would say, hey, I would ask questions, and then I would take the information that he gave me and implement it right to the point where there was a day I didn't have any appointments, and I knew he had a full calendar because I met his assistant, and she had said, hey, he's got, like, eight appointments today. They're all over the place. And I asked him, hey, can I drive you to your appointments today? And it was because I needed to see how he operated throughout the day to get to that level. And so I chauffeured him. Right. And from there, we started to build a friendship, and I started implementing, and the stuff started working. But as it started working, I noticed that the other people in the firm were trying to come and get a piece of my time. And if I gave everybody a piece of my time, then I couldn't get the job done that I needed to get done. And so it was that cutting, being able to cut people out or at least put them in a time slot on when I can deal with them and setting boundaries around that, but at the same time, hanging out with people that I had no business hanging out with. I mean, these guys were in the seven figures of earners and I had like $500 in my bank account and I was wondering how I was going to pay rent because it was, you know, $900 the next month. Right. And so that's where I was. Right. But so it was, it was almost forcing myself into those circles to where then I started to elevate and become better and better, but at the same time, not ignoring everyone else, but putting proper boundaries on when and how I was going to deal with them so that I could get that job done.

Cheney: Well, it speaks exactly to what we're talking about. And the study that we found is, you know, close knit circle.

Speaker C: Right.

Cheney: There's only, there's not many. It doesn't take long to call roll before that circle.

Speaker C: Right.

Cheney: But it's also, it's, it's, it speaks to modeling. Like you needed to see it.

Speaker C: Right.

Cheney: And that's, that's so many times. If you can show me how to do it, I mean, can I figure it out? Sure. But if we can, we can expedite this. If I see it and now, now I can make it unique to me now. And what, and what these folks need to know that are, that are listening to the podcast is your mindset, too. What can you share what the animal is that you got on your desk? Can you talk about that a little bit?

Ryan: Yeah, I've got rhinoceros. Yeah, it's a rhinoceros.

Cheney: Now, why do you, why the rhinoceros? What is, what's the, what's the meaning behind that?

Ryan: Yeah. So the book that I read early on in my career was rhinoceros success. Right. And the idea is, hey, if the rhinoceros is thirsty, he's not waiting in line at the watering hole for the giraffe to drink, for the elephant to drink. He just charging straight ahead and he's taking his drink of water and he's not letting the outside stuff affect him. So it was that, you know, straightforward go get what you want mindset.

Cheney: That's right. And it's not that you're a bull in a china shop, but you kind of are.

Speaker C: Right.

Cheney: I'm going to go get it.

Ryan: Yeah.

Cheney: Because in that industry, it's, you eat what you kill.

Speaker C: Right?

Cheney: You know, as. As bad as that that can be. I mean, that's just the nature of it, and it's not even bad if you got the correct mindset for it.

Ryan: Yeah, well, it's. It's like that in athletics, too, right? It's. It's. You eat what you killed. So if you. You know, here's another example of, you know, I mean, when I was playing baseball, it was the home run era, and when I got to college, I was, like, 170 pounds, and that was soaking wetland.

Cheney: Yeah.

Ryan: And one home run in my career. Right? And so I needed to gain weight, but not the typical way college students gain weight. I needed to get in the gym and, you know, not beer weight or anything like that. And so what I did is not football weight. Not football weight. No, I needed to. I needed to add muscle, and that was when there weren't trainers all over the place. Right? There weren't. Each team didn't have a specific sport specific workout and all that, so it was looking at muscle and fitness magazines, figuring out, all right, these guys are jacked, how do I get that way? And different exercises and all that. But when we would come back from games and road trips, it was me going to the gym, even though I was tired, even though, you know, injured and all those sorts of things. Everybody else was going out, hanging out, having fun, you know, party, whatever. And it's not that I didn't enjoy that stuff. I absolutely would have preferred doing that, but I knew I needed to isolate myself to be able to. To achieve the goals that I wanted to achieve. And it didn't drive a wedge in between me and my teammates. Right. I went back to, hey, in order for me to live up to the promises I make to my teammates, I need to get better and stronger, and this is the way that I can do it. And if that means sacrifice, you know, hanging out, then. Then that's what that means. But that group, it's not like they weren't bad guys, right? Oh, great. Guys still talk to them to this day. But I had to separate myself from those people that could have drugged me back from what my goals were.

Cheney: Sure. Well, I think it speaks to priorities, too. Like this. That was important, right? That's high on the list. And within priorities, there's going to be sacrifice. And you got to be willing to make the sacrifice, too, to get to where you want to go.

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. All right, thank you for joining us. Another episode of Shift happens. Talking about the circles you keep, the company you keep, and how it can help propel you to the next level, or it can prevent you from getting to the next level until next time.

The University of Pennsylvania searched for 22 years to find the key character trait of successful people. We explore their findings and break down how to spot if someone has it.

[email protected]

www.successbeyondgameday.com

Ryan: Welcome to shift happens where we talk everything. Mindset, development, taking lessons from the college and pro athletes, coaches and teams we work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner and this is Cheney Robinson. And today we're talking about University of Pennsylvania. Did a 22 year study. 350,000 participants spent millions of dollars to figure out, all right, is there a predictor of success? And it turns out it was optimism. Right. It wasn't where you grew up, how wealthy you were, was your family good, what school you went to. It was optimism. Right. So essentially it's the people that viewed the cup as half full or made, found ways, you know, for things to work out, thought bigger. And they had the mindset of, you know what, why not me? It was, it was those people. Right?

Cheney: So it's that positive attitude. I mean, is what that is. Right? Yeah. Like in Bruce Lee. Yeah, we've talked about Bruce Lee before and he, we've quoted him where he talks about having that negative internal talk, whether it's joking or not. Right. Whether you're sarcastic, you know, self deprecating, whatever the case may be, your body doesn't understand sarcasm, so your body's responding to the thoughts that you have. So it makes a lot of sense that it would be optimistic.

Ryan: Absolutely. Well, so then they further broke this down, right. And there were two key characteristics that, that this group shared, right. The optimistic group, right. The first one is they had unrealistic expectations that whatever they were doing was gonna work, right. And two, they kept trying new things until they found out what actual work. Right. So they thought bigger. When everybody doubted them, they were able to find that silver lining, right? If ten things, if they did ten tasks, nine of them went wrong, they were able to hitch their wagon to that little one that was left hanging out, that could give them a glimmer of hope, right. And then they had the adapt and overcome mindset. Right. It didn't work out. Well, it didn't work out this way. I'm gonna now try it this way, which I thought that pretty, those characteristics of that group I thought were pretty interesting.

Cheney: When you think about Edison, and we've heard this, this story, you know, everybody knows the story of the 2000 times the light bulb didn't work and then all of a sudden it did. You know, just think of, you know, I'm sure somebody else would have figured it out if they didn't before him and just didn't get the credit for it or if it was somebody after him. But the perseverance and just the optimism that he had was, okay, I learned from this one and I'm gonna tweak it the next time. Exactly, exactly. Get to it.

Ryan: And so then there was another study that I saw that they looked at tennis, right? And I know you've seen this one. They looked at the top 25 tennis players in the world and they said, all right, what do the top five do different than everybody else? And it was there, it wasn't a talent thing. It was in the first, you know, five to 10 seconds after something bad happened, they were thinking something positive, right. So it was that positive, it was that optimistic. And they were able to make that switch really, really quickly. And so whether they hit the ball out or the, I don't know if it's a referee or umpire in tennis, my tennis lingo is not up to.

Cheney: I think it's an umpire.

Ryan: Umpire, right. So the umpire made a bad call in their head. They very, very quickly turned to a positive thought on that. Right. And I think you see that a lot of times in big, you know, major sports, football, the, it's not that, you know, what did Michael Jordan say? He's taken, been trusted to take the game winning shot 9000 times and, and majority of the time he missed it. But it's that, it's that attitude of, all right, I'm going to, he remembers the good ones. Right. And that's what's tied into his brain of I'll hit the next one.

Cheney: Yeah, well, and you've seen the clip, too, where Steve there is the, it's the parade and it's the, they're, they've won the championship, right? They're back in Chicago. Steve Kerr's at the podium and he's talking about in the huddle before the, before the play happens. And he's like, Jackson tells Jordan, he said, I want you, you know, taking the final shot. And Kerr's jokingly saying this and he said, michael was like, I just don't feel comfortable in the situation. I think we need to go a different direction and let's get it to Steve. And he, you know, and then everybody die and laughing, loving that. And at the end of it he says, so that's how it happened. You know, thankfully I made the shot and that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Ryan: Yeah.

Cheney: So, you know, and I'm actually reading a book right now, relentless solution, focus and by Jason Selen Reed. And it talks exactly about what you're alluding to of just innately we are wired to focus on the negative and kind of wallow in that. And we're not really taught like those, that top percent that you're referring to in tennis. I would love to dig into that and see who taught them how to get out of that headspace. You know, when you have a negative play, something happens bad. That's not, that's not part of the game plan. And you have to adapt and figure out, okay, how do we pivot. Right.

Ryan: Yeah.

Cheney: Necessarily taught how to do that.

Ryan: So it's, you know, we're nothing.

Cheney: Very intriguing to me, that group, they were able to do that and do it very, very quickly, by the way, because, I mean, extremely.

Ryan: It's almost, it's almost instantaneous. Right.

Cheney: That's right. Because I gotta, I gotta, I gotta get out of that space because the next. Hey, the next serve is coming. I gotta get ready. And that's what they talk about, Reed and Selk are talking about. And theirs is, hey, just figure out a way, help you figure out a way to get out of that. You learn from it. Right. But you're not wallowing in it. And you're. You're getting more towards a, hey, this solved the problem rather than wallowing in it.

Ryan: Yeah. I think. I think we. When we talk about optimism, a lot of times we think it's gotta be, you know, the rainbows and butterflies and all that. And it has to be unrealistic. Right. Yeah. And I don't think. I don't think that's what this is indicating. Right. I think it's, even with those tennis players in the first however many seconds, it doesn't mean they liked the outcome of the ball hitting the line and being called out, or whatever the case may be. It's not that they appreciated that outcome, but they were able to put it in the proper perspective in order to continue to function at that highest level. And I think that's the key. Right. It's not. They didn't assume, because that happened that they were going to get the rest of the points. Right. They said, all right, this happened. Maybe I've been in this situation before and I've overcome this. Right. That was their positive thought. I overcome it before, I can overcome it again. And perhaps that was. But they were able to place it in the proper context, the proper perspective.

Cheney: Well, Jordan, not to keep mentioning the bulls and Jordan, but Jordan talks about that, too, of how hard they went at practice. He was like, games were easy. He's like, when I got into a pressure situation, I'd already done this many, many times at practice, so that when I got in the game situation, all I had to do was react and my body was already there. My mind already knew what to do because I'd already been there.

Ryan: Yeah. And I think when you know, and you hit on it, we're not taught how to do this. Right. And so when with athletes, it's all right. How do we teach them to rewrite that script? And a lot of times it is using examples and we have to use examples of the elite. Right. Because they tend to give us the best, the best ones. And I remember there was early in Kobe's career, they made the playoffs and he airballed a shot. Right. I mean, he was not performing well. I mean, there was maybe a couple air balls. And after the game, from the spot that, you know, he missed, it was a game winning shot. I didn't believe it was a game shot. But after the game he took, you know, I'm going to get the number wrong, but maybe 4400 or a thousand shot. But he had to make that time and time again so that he, he knew the next time he was going to hit it, he was going to get so comfortable in that spot that that missing it would not be an option. And so he, what he was doing in his head was rewriting that script of, hey, I missed this shot. And all it is, is a shot. Right? Yeah. The situation in the game was, was unique, but when you break it down to its simplest, it was, he was just shooting the basketball. And so I'm going to make so many of these shots from this point that I'm never going to have to worry about this again. Right. I'm going to rewrite that, that mindset, that mental story. So when I'm in this situation, I'm good.

Cheney: Yeah, well, and we've heard, heard this, too. And I'm, I can't think of who, who. The author of this is who, who, I'm quoting, and I hate that I'm not able to give them credit, but basically, if the difference in an amateur and a pro is an amateur is going to make, wants to make five or ten in a row and then they're good, right. The pro wants to make it until they can't miss and then. Yeah, that's exactly what you're talking about with Kobe is I'm going to make it so many times that I know the next time I have this shot that it's good before I've even shot it. And again, that's part of the mindset, too, of, hey, if I'm shooting it, I normally make it now? Do I always make it? No, but I know I can make it every time that I shoot it.

Ryan: Yeah, exactly. So as a coach, though, right? As a coach, as a player, you think there's a way to identify or something that, that helps. And now we measure a lot of stuff, right? I mean, we measure tons of performance, you know, data, right, of players. And we measure mindset data of player. All this, all this good stuff, right? So as a coach, is there something that you can point to that's maybe an indicator of optimism? Because remember, as a coach, you've, you've got a short window with transfer portal. You've got a short window to, to recruit high school. If you're recruiting high school kids, you know, it's a, it's a few months, you know, maybe at the elite positions, elite sports, maybe it's a little bit longer. But you're limited in communication. You know, if you're pro, a GM drafting someone, it's, you've got a short window. And they do a good job of analyzing the game film and the physical characteristics. But is there something that you think is a good predictor of if the individual's optimistic?

Cheney: I think there's two things, and they're very obvious in observation, attitude and body language. Right. Those two are going to be very, very telling of whether you're optimistic or not. Because again, I was thinking about this this morning, you know, just in how you hold yourself. You know, if I've got my shoulders slumped over and I'm, I'm kind of hunched down, I'm pretty good chance I'm not 100% optimistic that whatever I'm doing, I'm going to be able to do it and do it well. Now, if I'm, if I've got my shoulders back, my chest out, my head up, then again, just from observation, it's like, hey, he knows what he's doing or he's confident that he can do whatever is in front of him.

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one. Cause, you know, I know that the coaches, when we, you know, we've gone to some of these big eliteau basketball tournaments and we're seeing guys like Barnes and self and, you know, Hurley, all the, all the top coaches. Yeah, Hurley. And so we're seeing all these guys, right? And, you know, and we're watching some of the game because of the teams we work with and we're watching how they're acting and communicating and all this type of stuff, but we're also watching these coaches. And what I noticed in the last tournament is that when the players are actually playing the game, do you know what the coaches are doing? They're talking to each other. Yeah, they're just hanging out, talking. But when the timeouts come before and after the game is when they're paying attention. Right. And so that's the body language, those sorts of indicators that are going to show, you know, get, give at least an indicator, I was thinking, the ability to handle stressed. And I know this is an area that we measure and three different components in it, but can you handle stress and put it in its proper context? And that ability to handle stress, whether it's in a work environment or on the fields, in a team situation, in your personal life, just in general, stress in general. If you're able to process that, odds are you're. You're fairly optimistic. Right. You. You're able to, um, silo that and focus and those sorts of things. So that's. That's where my mind went, was, hey, if we can. If you can identify how they handle the stress, which we can. Right. Um, does. Is that a good predictor of opt. What are your thoughts on that?

Cheney: No, I agree 100%. Obviously, if we. If there, you'll see, too, if there are mechanisms in place to handle and deal with the stress, whether it's personal or on the court. Right. And I think a lot of it, too. It does go back to the attitude and how you. How you handle and conduct yourself is going to be how you handle stress. I think those two go hand in hand. So, yeah. As we are certainly able to quantify that, it makes sense that as we are observing what we're observing, as you've taken, as you've gone through our assessment and we see, okay, this is where it's suggesting you are in regards to handling or the ability to or not handle stress. We've got tangible evidence of it, quantifiable on the sheet of paper, but now we're actually seeing that, too, on the courthouse, right?

Ryan: Yep.

Cheney: And now coach and say, hey, you see it? Here it is. Now we've got some numbers to this. Now let's figure out a way to help bring the player along or help you be able to bring the player along.

Ryan: Exactly.

Cheney: Because it's. It goes to the same thing. Like we were. I was talking with a coach about a month ago, and he said he had a player that wanted to go power five D one, but his actions were reflective of a power five d one basketball player, and he pointed that out to it. Right. So now there's an attitude shift and there's a shift in. Okay. I need to make some changes to. If this is where I want to go, these are some things that I need to do and work on. And you gotta be willing.

Ryan: It's not just.

Cheney: That's right. And I think that's the key is that they. These athletes have got to be willing to take this information. And because it's positive information, whether it's from a negative perspective or is something negative that is being focused on it, is positive. Because, hey, here's where you are, and here's where we want to get you. Now this. That's good. Get to work and let's do this. We'll figure it out together.

Ryan: 100%. And that's a very good example of optimism in action with that perspective right there. So.

Cheney: Yeah.

Ryan: Hey, everybody. Appreciate you hanging out with us. Shift happens. Athlete mindset. Hacks. I'm Ryan. This is Cheney. We'll see you again soon.

The Paris Olympics are over and now there are athletes that were at the top of their game who are realizing their time in competitive athletics is over, but what's next? In this episode we walk through the person behind the athlete.

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Ryan: Welcome to shift happens where we talk everything. Mindset, development, taking lessons from college and pro athletes, college teams, coaches, pro teams, everyone that we work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. And today we're talking about an article that we saw about the post olympic blues, talking about why do so many competitors suffer that emotional letdown when they're done competing? And, you know, I. The Olympics was highlighted, obviously, Paris just ended and closing ceremony and all that kind of stuff. The US won the medal count, but this is not just an olympian thing. Right. It's highlighting the fact that they're Olympians. But this happens with every athlete that we've ever spoken with. Right. It could be the college level, from that college athlete going from, you know, playing their sport to now they have to find, you know, a job in the real world to the pro athlete who most of them don't decide when they're going to be done. It's decided for them. So one day they're on the team, next day they're off the team all the way to military people. Right. Military. That go from, you know, I'm a service member and that was really my identity to all of a sudden now I got to go back to the civilian world. And so this is not just kind of centered on these, on these athletes, on the Olympic athletes. This is something that all athletes face.

Cheney: Yeah. And you think about it, because this is the livelihood, right. More than just what we do, good, bad and different. It's who we are. Right. And that's who our, that's who our livelihood, that's where our livelihood is tied to, is playing our respective sports, whatever those may be. I was thinking about this, this article, too, with, in regards to these Olympic athletes. And you say Bolt had recently said, I trained four years for 9 seconds, yo. So he's spending a, an inordinate amount of time, literally for 9.58 seconds, and then it's over unless you make the team again in four more years.

Ryan: Yeah, but that's four years of devoting everything you do to that. To that sport. But again, this is not just Olympic athletes. This is all athletes. And I think this is almost a self created problem, perhaps, right? Because if you, look, let's just start out when we start playing sports. And when you and I started playing sports, we played every sport. Right. And it wasn't, it wasn't focused on one sport, but now it's so specialized at such an early age where you have, you know, position coaches working with middle schoolers for football to learn that position. And so their whole identity is, this is who I am. I'm this athlete. And, and that's really defining who they are. But it's. But it's dictated a lot of times by the parents, you know, and maybe they, and maybe the kids enjoy the sport, right? But it's. It's dictated almost to them that your worth, your value comes from simply being an athlete. And they don't get to develop outside of that, that small bubble. I think, you know, a lot of times the coaches that we talk to, whether it be at that high school level, college, or even at the pro level, they think that creating that zone, right, where these athletes have to stay in from a mental, from a mindset standpoint of, hey, I'm an athlete, I need to develop this. They think if you go out of that zone, it's going to negatively impact you as an athlete, your physical performance. When the reality is the more you identify as that athletics is something that you do, it's not your whole identity really helps you figure out why you're playing that sport, right? And so, you know, the why or the true motivation. And so a quick example here. And I was working with, on the financial side, an athlete and spending problem, right? Like buying stuff and especially for his family, right? And he said, hey, you know, I asked him, why are you. Why do you keep buying, you know, the house or why do you keep buying the stuff for, for your, you know, for your family and spending it on you and all that? And he's like, well, I haven't had it before, and it's. And it's, you know, it's really nice. And I said, yeah, okay, I get it. Right. Makes sense. Yeah, but why, like, let's dig down deep into that. And at the end of it, you know, there's a lot of sitting in silence, staring at each other. One of those games where the first one to talk loses, right? Right. And. And he finally said, man, you know, it's. I want to buy my parents. I want my mom to be able to sleep in a house where she doesn't have to worry about the blind over, you know, through the window in the middle of the night. I want her to be able to not have to take the bus to get around anymore. And that was the whole purpose behind him playing the sport that he played. And that then identifying that component of why he was playing it allowed him to fully embrace why he was playing, fully, dig in, get better physically get better from a mindset standpoint and get another contract. And that sort of stuff. And so that's really, you know, it's almost counterintuitive where we try and keep these athletes in this bubble, where when we help them figure out why they're playing the sport or who they are outside of just that fleet, it either gets rid of the people that the athletes that aren't really. They don't really care about the game, which is kind of what you want as a coach anyway, and as a teammate, and. Or it gets them dialed in even more, because now there's a purpose, now there's a vision, and they can. And they're working towards something for a reason.

Cheney: Yeah, well, now there's a different level of motivation, too. It's like I'm providing for the family. That is my sole purpose for doing this. Growing up, my dad didn't have a whole lot. Right. And that was one of the things, too. So my brother and I, younger brother and I, we. We had what we needed, some of the stuff we wanted, but we had what we needed. Or what he felt like, hey, this is what you need to be able to perform at the highest level in whatever it is that you want to do. Right. So it wasn't that, you know, the dad. My dad was trying to cast onto us or. Or live vicariously through us. He just enjoyed watching us play and compete and the enjoyment that we got from the competition itself. But he would. He wanted to make sure that, like. Like the guy you were talking about, that we had the stuff that we needed to be able to perform it at the highest level we could.

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, I think, and I think, you know, to throw another kind of lump in here is you add nil in here. Right. And, you know, I just read an article about a wide receiver from North Carolina state. Wolfpack had a great. He was the rookie, I believe, the ACC rookie of the year, Casey Concepcion. Right. And he started a foundation, and he's using his nil money to. For the money and his time to give back to Charlotte, where he grew up, and then the Raleigh community where he goes to school.

Cheney: Yeah.

Ryan: And he bought pizzas and partnered with the police department to feed kids the other weekend. And so him being able to express himself and, you know, and, you know, participate in the activities that are most important to him, self identify as something outside of an athlete, but then perform even better on the field, because he knows if he does that, his purpose of being able to give back and help the community is just going to grow exponentially. He's going to be able to do more. Right? And so it's that helping the coaches but really helping the athletes identify with, all right, I'm playing this sport for these reasons. It's not my complete identity. And, you know, it's. It's a tough, you know, this is one of the tough ones that we deal with, with, you know, when we work with. Work with our athletes, right. Is helping them get that next level. And it's not them laying on a couch. You know, we're not therapists. Right. It's just helping them think about, you know, their goals, why they really. Why they want to accomplish those goals and. And figuring out who they are outside of being that athlete. And it takes a little bit of time, right. But when they connect, man, they just blossom into better people, better athletes. I mean, they just perform in every aspect at such a higher level. It's really incredible.

Cheney: And it's fun to watch that, too. It's so fulfilling to see them have the success that we know that they can have and helping them realize, hey, I can be better. Right. Like, you've had conversations before with, with guys. And again, I know it's not, it wasn't necessarily on the couch because, y'all, I saw the conversation happen of, hey, you're supposed to be here now. Embrace this thing and go get it. This is what you've been dreaming about. Go get it. And. And sometimes that's all it is, is just that encouragement, that one little piece of encouragement. And you didn't know this guy from whomever else. Right. You did, but, I mean, we'd literally just gotten introduced to him, but there was value in what you were saying. He heard it, embraced it, and internalized it and, you know, had a pretty good NFL draft.

Ryan: Yeah. Because he made some money.

Cheney: He's got. He believes in himself because somebody first believed in him.

Ryan: Yeah.

Cheney: And that's.

Ryan: Yeah, it goes back to what we say that experiences drive beliefs and beliefs drive behavior. And we don't just, you know, I knew about him based on some of the tools that we use. Right. And I knew with very high accuracy where he was going to struggle. Right. And so I was able to have that conversation. We're able to have those conversations because we can identify these things and we can break through that, you know, the barrier of, you know, hey, he's got a, you know, he could be a first or second round pick. Everybody, everybody's, you know, wants a picture and all that type of stuff, and that's the last thing we care about, but. And we're truly showing how we can help them not just get to the league, but this is how you're going to stay in the league.

Cheney: Right. Well, another example we put on a conference years ago, place I used to work and had Bobby Bowden as the keynote. And that was one of the things that he talked about was I want to develop men. I want these young men to develop as football players, but also as husbands and fathers and be influential, you know, and positively influential in their, in their communities, he said, but I gotta win football games to have the opportunity to have these men come in here for me to pour into a mentor.

Ryan: Yeah. And I think the greatest coaches at the end of the day, that's truly their, you know, you think about even, you know, a Saban, a Kirby smart. You know, it's. It's a hypo. Right. It's. It's wanting to truly impact these, these athletes and, and they're just using the sport as a vehicle to do that. Right. And which is exactly what we need to get our athletes doing right is figure out who they are, what they really want to accomplish so that they can use their sport as a vehicle to, to achieve that so well.

Cheney: And that's what's so cool about KC, too, is at NC State, is he's get. He sees the bigger picture. Right. Strategic visionary. And he's taken advantage of the spirit of nil. Right. And like you talked, you've talked about entrepreneurship in this, of, hey, and what's going to help set me up for success later on and. But more importantly, what's going to help support others and that's what he's doing with the foundation. Like, there was a guy recently that we saw, I think also in Charlotte who didn't he help his dad invest in and start up a basketball player from South Carolina?

Ryan: Yep.

Cheney: There you go. So at South Carolina, so he's helping his dad, very entrepreneur, neural minded, helping his dad get a barbershop started, which is going to give back to the community.

Ryan: Yeah. And his whole purpose with that is legacy. And so if there's a takeaway from this episode, it's, hey, helping these athletes identify who they are outside of their sport isn't going to hinder them performing. It's actually going to enhance how they perform. Now, the trick is you spend so much time from a physical side of things trying to get better, trying to get stronger a little bit quicker, all those physical characteristics that we need to perform better to make it to those next levels. It's where do you find the time to help them identify who they are? Outside of the athlete. And I think it doesn't have to take a ton of time. It's not an hour, two hour session where they're hearing somebody talk. It's, you know, you know, I think, and, you know, a little bit of bias, but I think our process is good where, I mean, they can start to develop this over a couple weeks.

Cheney: Yeah.

Ryan: Simply by taking one or two minutes, two or three times a week. Right. And so it's not that it's difficult, but it's like with anything, it's a process that you have to start to get in the habit of and you'll grow as you really start to develop it.

Cheney: Yeah, well, and it just compliment. It compliments it. Well. What we're doing off the field, outside of the respective playing surface will complement us on the field, on the court. And these athletes need to understand that. And more importantly, coaches, administrators need to see that, too. Like, hey, we can help these athletes by parallel path. Hey, here's who they are. Big picture. This is part of what they're doing. This is a platform, and it's, obviously, it's right here in the face, you know, what we're doing, whether it's football or basketball, volleyball, whatever, baseball. But there's, there's more to this individual than just them being a pitcher or quarterback or point guard.

Ryan: So athletes, you're listening. You're more than just an athlete. Figure it out. The sooner the better. Avoid the post Olympic blues. I'm Ryan. This is Cheney. Thanks for joining us on shift. Happens.

What does alignment look like within a team or organization verses just getting agreement. What are the key aspects of alignment and how can you make the organizational shift.

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[00:06] Ryan: Welcome to shift happens where we talk everything, mindset, development, taking lessons from the college and pro athletes, coaches and teams that we work alongside. I'm Ryan Schachner. This is Cheney Robinson. And today we're talking about team alignment. Cheney, before we get into team alignment, what percentage of teams would you say have from top down coaching or GM to coach to the players, have team alignment?

[00:40] Cheney: Probably less than half.

[00:44] Ryan: I would say that might be even high.

[00:46] Ryan: Right.

[00:48] Ryan: Because if I think about the teams that really had alignment.

[00:53] Ryan: Right.

[00:54] Ryan: I think football, I think the Patriots.

[00:58] Ryan: Right.

[00:58] Ryan: Winning, you know, their division champion, year in, year out, Super bowl appearance. You could almost write it in pen at the beginning of the season.

[01:09] Cheney: Right.

[01:09] Ryan: So those guys had to be aligned. The Bulls with their run.

[01:14] Ryan: Right.

[01:15] Ryan: Both the three peats. The Lakers with, you know, Kobe, shaq, the Brave. Michael.

[01:23] Cheney: Yeah, Michael.

[01:24] Ryan: Winning Olympia.

[01:26] Cheney: Right. And the Braves, I think, won. Was it 14 straight divisions? Yeah. There's a lot. There's a lot to say there, too.

[01:36] Ryan: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, all right, let's help. Let's define what, in our words, what we would say team alignment is. What does it look like? I'd say shared. Common vision. You're sharing that vision, the goals and then the values. And I'd say values. And I'd put that in the context of moral values. What is morally important? Is there shared vision and agreement on those. Being able to use all those to work together. Right. To achieve the common vision, being able to understand and being committed to the team's objectives and really having the clarity. And I think this is important, the clarity regarding individual roles and responsibilities within the team. Yeah, I think that's one that a lot of times is missing. And then how do you then encompass and foster a sense of camaraderie, mutual respect.

[02:46] Ryan: Right.

[02:46] Ryan: As team members, that doesn't mean friendship. That means mutual respect.

[02:52] Ryan: Right.

[02:52] Ryan: You respect what they're able to do and they respect what you're able to do. And the result, a lot of times it leads to the increased collaboration, innovation, but at the heart of it, overall team performance.

[03:05] Ryan: Right.

[03:06] Ryan: You win more.

[03:07] Ryan: Right.

[03:08] Ryan: You have more wins, longer stretches of wins. They support each other, whether it's in the media, on campus, or, you know, off the field, they're able to communicate. Sometimes that's not always happy communication. Kobe and Shaq, it was yelling at each other, but they had 

[03:44] Ryan: Right.

[03:44] Ryan: That's just how they interacted and being able to leverage each other's strengths in certain situations throughout the season in order to achieve the team goals. That would be how I would define team alignment.

[04:08] Ryan: Right.

[04:08] Ryan: What does team alignment mean? I would say to me, that's what team alignment means. What are your, what do you think?

[04:15] Cheney: I concur with all that. I think, too, there's a very high level of trust that is very, you know, very apparent there, too, within the group. And I think that comes from that. The last couple points that you made, camaraderie and then just the respect that they have for each other as a 

[04:41] Ryan: So indicators, right, that we've seen that a team is not aligned.

[04:46] Ryan: Right.

[04:48] Ryan: Lack of communication.

[04:50] Ryan: Right.

[04:51] Ryan: And that could be just talking on the field. I mean, we've, we were at AAU tournament and the team that we work with was getting stomped. And this is, these guys are the best of the best. They're going power five out of high school. You're getting stomped. And there was almost zero communication going on on the court.

[05:15] Ryan: Right.

[05:15] Ryan: So it could be on the court, it could be in the locker room. Communication, information sharing.

[05:22] Ryan: Right.

[05:23] Ryan: Being able to exchange ideas. Hey, this is what I'm seeing. These are the adjustments you need to make, right. Being able to spot out some of those things, different goals and priorities between. It could be position groups, it could be players on the team, low morale, low motivation, long season, maybe it's not going like we thought. So low motivation, inefficient use of resources, and then lack of trust and accountability. And I'd say those are, if there's. It doesn't, the team doesn't have to embody all of them.

[06:06] Cheney: Right.

[06:06] Ryan: It just has to be one of those for there to be misalignment within the team.

[06:12] Ryan: Right.

[06:12] Ryan: And then that's, that's like the, you know, the blueberry that you get in the pack that starts to grow the mold on it, and it's one, you don't take it out of the pack that day, you're thinking, oh, it's just one blueberry. I'll take care of it when I get them tomorrow. And then tomorrow comes and there's ten blueberries that have mold on them. Right. It's. It's that mold that grows and then it impacts, at the end of the day that the team goes.

[06:39] Ryan: Right?

[06:39] Ryan: Yeah. So then, then the result of that is clearly decreased productivity. There's silos within the team and that really hinders the, you 

[07:04] Cheney: I think the first and most important thing that you just said there was communication or lack thereof, because if we're not communicating, we're going to have a story built up in our minds of what's happening and we can potentially silo ourselves or be out on our own little island. And because we hadn't communicated or been curious and asked questions and, you know, let stuff not let stuff fester but bring get it out, you know, talk. Hey, let's discuss, you know, we may not agree, but now we're sharing where we are and how we're feeling and what's, what's going on. And again, you're right, too. That was the end of the season for them and it may not have been as successful a season as they were hoping for is the goals that they had set, but it's still productive season. Right?

[07:55] Ryan: Yeah.

[07:55] Ryan: I look at, I remember an interview that I saw. It was a player that played for Belichick and wide receiver coming friend was a free agent. He came in as a wide receiver and getting targets throughout the season and really only played special teams those years.

[08:15] Ryan: Right.

[08:15] Ryan: And. But he did it. He embraced it. He was on board with it. And so the interview was what happened? You know, you came in and you were getting targets as a wide receiver and, you know, you didn't get the chances to play the position. You just stayed on special teams. What 

[09:07] Ryan: Right.

[09:08] Ryan: And so it was very clear.

[09:11] Cheney: Right.

[09:12] Ryan: Hey, this is what I bring you in here for before the contract is signed. This is my expectations. This is the role you're going to play.

[09:22] Cheney: Right.

[09:23] Ryan: And if you don't want to play it, that's fine, but you need to know upfront so that it doesn't create that, you know, the mold in the locker room.

[09:30] Ryan: Right.

[09:31] Ryan: And he accepted it. He didn't have to like it.

[09:34] Ryan: Right.

[09:34] Ryan: But his goal was to win the Super bowl, and he realized that, hey, if I want to do that, I got to play my, my role on the team.

[09:41] Ryan: Right.

[09:42] Ryan: So we talk communication top down of what expectations are, reasonable expectations and expectations, you know, although that sort of stuff. But then we talk about communication from how do you maximize a player's ability?

[10:00] Ryan: Right.

[10:00] Ryan: And it's understanding how to communicate.

[10:04] Cheney: Yeah.

[10:04] Ryan: And we see this, I think, is the biggest missed opportunity and I think of a guy named, you know, DJ Uyungle.

[10:15] Ryan: Right.

[10:15] Ryan: When he was at Clemson, he was guy, the next guy.

[10:19] Ryan: Right?

[10:20] Cheney: Yeah.

[10:20] Ryan: Clearly he was at Clemson. Something did not click.

[10:24] Ryan: Right.

[10:25] Ryan: He was, he was a second too late on throws and there was hesitation out there when he was playing. Well, then he goes out west and now he's, I believe he's at Florida State. Yeah. And he, he crushed it out west. And I have no, you know, that my expectations is he does the same thing at Florida State.

[10:49] Cheney: Right.

[10:49] Ryan: Well, was that, did his talent get that much better? I don't. So, like, the talent was there. Did his football grow? Yeah, probably a little bit, but significantly, I think he got in the right system and the coach was able to communicate in a way that could maximize, you know, DJ's talent.

[11:14] Ryan: Right.

[11:15] Ryan: He was able to align communication with how DJ learned in order to help him maximize his ability.

[11:24] Ryan: Right.

[11:24] Cheney: Yeah.

[11:25] Ryan: And so I think it's that being able as a coach to identify. All right, what are my players, how do they communicate and how can I or my staff adjust how we say things so that we can get the best out of them.

[11:41] Cheney: Right. Well, and we know, too, there's so many times, you know, the sender and receiver, what we're saying one thing and we know what we mean to say, but the receiver is not receiving it that way. So what you're, you've hit the nail on the head. It's, you know, we're communicating 

[12:39] Ryan: But I think it's right. I mean, as the, as the elite coaches in their sports, they're able to identify these communication styles and they're able 

[12:59] Ryan: Right.

[13:00] Ryan: Yeah. Then I think it's.

[13:04] Cheney: So.

[13:04] Ryan: I think that's one key. Right. To me, there's two key takeaways of things that can be worked on, and then, in my opinion, everything else kind of falls into line.

[13:16] Ryan: Right.

[13:16] Ryan: So communication is definitely one of them. But then being able to understand the player's performance capabilities or performance capacities. Right. Understand their strengths and weaknesses. Being able 

[13:49] Ryan: Right.

[13:50] Ryan: Being able to know, hey, is this, this player may follow direction and be coachable, but is he going to accept coaching? Meaning if I can spot a way for him to improve long term, and it means changing footwork or changing position, those sorts of things, is he going to embrace and accept that coaching and make that change long term or is he going to pay it lip service and, you know, temporarily switch up his footwork, but then at the end of the day, he's just going to revert back to the old habits.

[14:29] Ryan: Right.

[14:30] Ryan: And so it's. It's being able to. To identify how their brain works, how, you know, their experiences, uh, that they. That they had growing up are. Are impacting the behaviors that we see and understanding before it exhibits itself on the field or on the court. And so I think that's the other 

[15:22] Ryan: Right.

[15:22] Ryan: And then being able to communicate.

[15:25] Cheney: You're exactly right, I think, in encompassing all of that, too. I think ultimately, if the athletes know that you care about them, right, that you want the best for them, it's not just, hey, I want you to your **** in my, in my chess game here of trying to win a national championship. Maxwell talks about this. Leaders that are looking to influence people, they, whomever they looking to influence has got to be able to answer three questions, can you help me? Can I trust you? And do you care? And you better be. They may be able to say yes to all three of those. And the last one I think is probably the most important is do you care? And I think that's where just the interactions, trying to figure out how to communicate with each individual person, whether it's on your athletic team or it's a CEO is talking to is Jamie Dimon is talking to his group and saying, okay, here's the strategic vision moving forward for us. Here's how it's going to impact each other and here's the expectations. If they, if the team and the group knows, hey, he cares about us individually also as a group, then there's gonna be a lot more motivation, a lot more willingness to lean in and jump and embrace it.

[16:45] Ryan: Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. And I wanna hit on something. Cause you said vision, right? What is the vision? A lot of times the vision. I mean, I don't know that there's a team in the NFL that begins the season saying we want to finish last in the division.

[17:03] Ryan: Right?

[17:03] Cheney: Right.

[17:05] Ryan: It's, we want to finish first in the division then, you know, and then, you know, win the AFC or NFC and then the Super bowl. No one's goal is to be last or to, hey, we want to just miss the playoffs.

[17:20] Ryan: Right.

[17:20] Ryan: That, that's our, that's our goal. And so it always starts with, um, you know, that, that grand goal, but then it's breaking down into, all right, how do we know if we're outside of just wins and losses if, if we're making progress towards this, right? And I know talking to some Ohio State football guys that played on offense, Urban Meyers thing was, all right, every snap the goal is to get three and a half yards.

[17:52] Cheney: Yeah.

[17:53] Ryan: If we get three and a half yards, right. First down, second down, third down, we're going to score. Right. So it's not that, hey, we need to score on x number of possessions. It's we need to get three and a half yards. So, and it could have been a Hail Mary, it could have been a running play, but the goal at the end of the day was, can we make this and get our three and a half yards? And so it was a tiny measurement that they could identify early on in the season, early on in the game to see if they were making progress towards those goals. And they knew if they got those three and a half yards, they were going to score points. They knew if they were going to score points, they were going to win football games. And they knew if they won football games, they would get an opportunity to play for the national championship and probably one of the most successful coaches of all time from, you know, getting teams very quickly to that high level.

[18:54] Ryan: Right.

[18:54] Ryan: And so it's, it's not just sharing what the vision is, but giving workable goals to help show progress right. Outside of wins and losses. 

[19:08] Ryan: Right.

[19:08] Ryan: It's empowering the team. It's letting them know that you care to.

[19:14] Ryan: Right.

[19:16] Ryan: By checking in with them.

[19:17] Ryan: Right.

[19:18] Ryan: Especially if you know where some of the weaknesses are. If you can identify play starting to falter or their performance isn't where it could be having those key indicators of what might be the leading cause of that.

[19:35] Ryan: Right.

[19:36] Ryan: And being able to identify that, to have those check inside, but then empowering the team as well. And so it's not, you know, I think of the best teams I've been a part of, the best teams I've seen is they delegate that. The coaches delegate the power.

[19:55] Ryan: Right.

[19:56] Ryan: They delegate the leadership to not just the captains, but inside the position group.

[20:02] Ryan: Right.

[20:02] Ryan: Is somebody gonna lead in that position group? And it doesn't matter if they're a freshman or a senior. It's somebody's got a lead and they got to delegate some of that authority inside that position group with guardrails, clearly. But it's, it's letting the, the team, you know, coach each other, hold each other accountable. Have those. Yeah. That open dialogue.

[20:27] Ryan: Right.

[20:27] Cheney: Yeah. When Phil Jackson, you know, long time coach of the Bulls and ended up being with the Lakers, too, he's, I've read quote from him saying a coach led team is a, can be a good team, but a player led team can be a great team. And I got, I gotta, I gotta trust he's, you know, he's got nine plus rings, if not more. You know, he's got fingers for all the rings that he's got. So he's got a pretty good idea of what he's, what he's talking about.

[20:55] Ryan: For coaches, for organizations looking to. All right, are we aligned?

[21:01] Ryan: Right.

[21:01] Ryan: I mean, we can, we can help identify the, you know, the strengths. Right. I think key number one is identify the strengths and weaknesses of your team where you have them in certain positions.

[21:15] Ryan: Right.

[21:15] Ryan: From up from leadership positions to are they in the right, you know, physical position, more, more corporate side for that last one. Are they in the right role to maximize their strengths?

[21:29] Ryan: Right.

[21:29] Ryan: Or is that role highlighting their weaknesses? Because you could have the right person, just in the right spot, being able to understand how they all communicate. Step two, being able to break down the goals, the vision of the team. So getting the right people in the right place, talking to them in a way that's going to help maximize their talent, get that shared vision, shared goals. And the communication then leads to that team camaraderie.

[22:03] Ryan: Right.

[22:03] Ryan: And so I think one thing a lot of times that I see coaches try and do is the team bonding, and they think that that's going to help build the camaraderie.

[22:16] Ryan: Right.

[22:17] Ryan: And I just look at some of the most successful teams from a winning standpoint, you could argue, had some of the most selfish players on it, right. And I say, and I say, you know, I look at a Jordan who, you could argue he isolated himself, right. A Kobe Bryant who isolated himself. Yet 

[23:13] Cheney: Yeah. Well, and I think for Kobe, and it seemed like what I've read, what I've heard about him was if you put the work in, then you're, you're, you're on the inner, inner circle with him. If you didn't, then he wouldn't even pass you the ball. Right. Like I saw an interview where one of his former teammates very, he didn't do anything basketball related outside of the scheduled practice time. Right. And Kobe's practicing three times a day. And you can look back at his schedule. He's, he's early, early in the morning, he's refueling, you know, recovering, and then there's another one a few hours later, recovering, refueling, and then there's another one. Right. So he was at peak physical level and he, that's, he knew that's where I've got to be to be able to withstand the beating that I want to take. Same thing with Jordan. You know, Jordan rules. He realized, hey, I better put some weight on. If this is the game that I'm going to play, this is what I've got to do. And he had that same expectation, too. Like he'd get on, he'd get in your face, like. But he understood, too. I know I can't do it by myself. I've got to have the support of these guys and I'm going to go push them because I see what they're capable of, and I'm going to push them past their limits because they don't know what their limits are. I can see it. And I'm going to help get them past their limits. So they ultimately are helping us go 72 and ten and putting that big honking ring on our, on our finger at the end of the season.

[25:02] Ryan: Yeah, for sure. You know, one of the funniest Kobe stories, and as we wrap up this episode is poor performance on, you know, they. I think they had lost a couple games, right. And the players, a lot of the guys on his team wore the shoes, the Kobe Bryant shoes, right. And he was so upset that he told the locker room attendant, you know, hey, next morning, take the shoes back. Don't let them wear the shoes because they're making my name, they're not wearing them.

[25:39] Cheney: Right.

[25:40] Ryan: And so sure enough, one of his teammates shows up and the attendant is pulling the shoes. All the Kobe's off the, you know, out of the 

[25:58] Ryan: Right, right.

[26:01] Ryan: So he, you know, he isolated himself. He had high expectations. He had ways of delivering messages that may be to some unorthodox, but just because you have that, he wasn't a big team bonding type guy.

[26:17] Ryan: Right.

[26:18] Ryan: That didn't make him a bad teammate. And so bonding to, you know, bonding doesn't always solve the problem. I think it's a component, especially as, you know, the team is bigger and younger and all that type of stuff, but that's not the end all, be all, you know, quick fixed. So, hey, thank you for joining us on shift happens. We can't wait to see you next time.