Herding Code

Episode 137

Episode 136

In this episode, Jon and Scott K talk talk with the guys behind Code52, an effort to spin up a new open source project every week for a year.

Download / Listen:

Show Notes:

• Jon starts by asking how this whole idea got started.
• Brendan explains the timeline of a one week spin up cycle for a project.
• Jon asks if the projects just die at the end of a week, and if people are continuing to work on past projects. Paul and Andrew talk about the continuing work on all projects, including MarkPad .
• Jon says he thinks the concern of abandoned open source projects is overblown - collaboration is good, working
• Jon asks about the projects they've done so far, and the guys run through the list.
• Brendan explains how the different projects are selected.
• Jon asks about how technologies are selected. Brendan says that it's all based on who shows up, and Andrew mentions the wide variety of technologies that have been covered so far.
• Paul says that the "bite sized projects" have been a good way for developers who are new to open source to get started. Jon asks how new developers can get ramped up, and Brendan lists some of the onboarding resources. Andrew explains that it's hard to write much documentation when the projects are running for a week. Andrew mentions some of the Git documentation they've got written up.
• Scott K says he's got a ton of personal projects that he doesn't have time for. Everyone talks about the benefit of getting a team on a project for a week.
• Jon asks about some of the common frameworks that they use over and over. Paul talks about MahApps.
• Scott K asks about non-CLR project, like some crazy project in obscure languages. Brendan says the main focus is on building something useful in a week, which usually leads towards common languages. Brendan says that projects in other languages really need a "champion" to show up and lead the project for a week - and the door's open.
• Jon asks about the community reaction overall. The guys talk about the wide attention, as well as some negative reactions from onlookers who want to see other technologies represented.
• Jon says he thinks there was some pent up need for energy in the .NET open source space, and asks if that was part of the reason for getting this started.
• Jon asks Paul about the "Mah" name he's used for his open source projects.
• There's a discussion of developing while hungry, including the Pretzel project name and the "Jon should make me a delicious cake" incident.
• Andrew talks about the GTFO project - GitHub Tools For Outlook
• Jon asks about the .NET developer community in Australia. Is it  as huge as it seems?
• Question from Twitter - @wolfbyte asks: "How do you balance the shifting of tools / ideas / processes against the goal of attracting people to open source development.
• Another question from @wolfbyte: "Are you guys tired yet?" (Yes!)
• Jon asks if there's thought as to how to scale things going forward to all the work doesn't fall on Paul/Brendan/Andrew for all projects. Is there a possibility to bring in guest leads for a week?
• There's a discussion of HattersGonnaHat and the Konami code. Jon announces a new KDD movement: Konami Driven Development.
• Some discussion of Windows 8 development (update: the 3/5 - 3/12 project is Windows 8).
• Would it be possible to do more cross-platform work? Silverlight?
• What will the future projects be? Jon campaigns (in vain) for his Diff/Merge 2000 project proposal.
• Jon asks for more information about how they run all the behind-the-scenes communications and infrastructure. GitHub, App Harbor, JabbR - all are low friction and low / no cost.
• Jon asks about the amount of work involved in accepting pull requests.
• Brendan talks about the test coverage in code submissions. Paul says that having testing frameworks in place makes it a lot more likely that people will write the tests.
• Brendan wraps with a call to look at Code52.org and get started. Jon pledges to fly to Australia in luggage class, then offends everyone by confusing Australia with New Zealand.

Show Links:

• Code52 site (@code_52)
• Code52 JabbR room
• Andrew Tobin - blog, twitter
• Brendan Forster - blog, twitter
• Paul Jenkins - blog, twitter
• Code52 projects to date:
• MarkPad - A Markdown editor for
• jibbr - A Jabbr bot designed for collaborative
• Ideastrike - A collaborative idea voting site
• Samurai - A tiled, turn-based player-vs-plaryer game with an MVC 4 backend and the beginning of Windows Phone and iOS front ends
• Pretzel - A static site generator with Markdown and Liquid (and Razor on the way)
• metro.css - A CSS bootstrap package to simplify building web applications with a Metro look
• Carnac - A utility that displays keyboard shortcuts as you type them
• GT4O - An addin for managing Github tasks inside Outlook.
• i18n Packages for MVC4 - NuGet packages to simplify internationalization in ASP.NET MVC applications
• MyFinances for Windows 8 - A Javascript-based application for WinRT
• GitHub post - A New Coding Project Every Week at Code52
• #HattersGonnaHat
• Konami code
• MahTweets
• MahApps

Episode 135

In this episode, the guys talk with Remco Mulder (author of NCrunch) and Jeff Schumacher (author of Giles) about continuous testing in .NET.

Download / Listen:

Show Notes:

• Scott K kicks things off with a horrible old school BASIC joke.
• Remco explains how NCrunch got started because he was living under a rock.
• Jeff explains how Giles got started by finding AutoTest and seeing it not maintained (in reality it was).
• Remco talks about the number of test frameworks.
• Jon asks Remco about adding MSTest support - Remco groans about how difficult MSTest was to integrate with NCrunch.
• Jeff mentions that xUnit's test runner is complete for backward compatibility.
• Jeff talks about Machine Specs and avoiding versioning hell with Impromptu Interface.
• Jon asks about each library's approach to Continuous Testing and to explain it to a laymen.
• Rem explains what Continuous Testing is in relation to NCrunch.
• Scott comments on a "strange situation" of testing compiled code creates slow tests and asks about any shortcuts Rem or Jeff have taken.
• Jon comments how NCruch & Giles gives immediate feedback as he's coding.
• Jeff mentions that Giles has the ability to filter tests so that you only see what you want to see.
• Remco explains how NCrunch attempts to determine impact to order how tests are run so the most pertinent tests run first.
• Jon gives his quick history of the testing feedback cycle: separate project phase, then repository check-in step with continuous integration, local test runers, and now tests running as we write the code. Are we done? Where can we go from here?
• Jeff comments about how Continuous Testing is like the red squiggly for code problems.
• Scott asks about alternative language support for NCrunch and Giles.
• Remco mentions that Salesforce.com has a Selenium "cluster" to continuously run UI tests.
• Remco talks about Visual Studio integration for NCrunch.
• Jeff talks about a branch that supports Mono.
• Jon talks about Roslyn, and Scott K reminds us that Mono was doing compiler as a service long ago - 2008?
• Remco jokes about clippy.
• Jeff talks about Continuous testing and Pair Programming.
• Jeff wanted to get to the point where he didn't think about the tooling but only the tests and the code.
• Jeff talks about Visual Studio magazine and an article about Continuous Testing.
• Jon comments how easy NCrunch is able to setup and get going.
• Remco wants to make Continuous testing really really easy to get people to start using it.
• Jeff recommends looking at all the different continuous testing options, mentioning Greg Young's Mighty Moose.

Show Links:

• Jeff Schumacher - blog, twitter
• Remco Mulder - blog, twitter
• NCrunch
• Giles
• Mighty Moose from Greg Young
• Continuous Testing: Think Different [Visual Studio Magazine online]
• Project Roslyn

Show notes by Ben Dornis. Thanks!

Episode 134

In this episode, Jon talks to Brad Wilson about the ASP.NET MVC 4 Beta release.

Download / Listen:

Show Notes:

• Brad starts with a rundown of what was in ASP.NET MVC 4 Developer Preview, including HTML5 Default Template features, Adaptive Rendering, Mobile Template, Display Modes, NuGet package based installation, and Task based Async Controllers.
• Jon asks about the ASP.NET Web API integration. Brad talks about the effort involved and why it's useful.
• Jon asks for clarification as to what ASP.NET Web API offers over hand writing services using ASP.NET MVC.
• Brad talks about Content Negotiation and why it's useful.
• Jon asks about things that Web API has in common with MVC like filters and model binding.
• Jon asks about the testability of Web API. Brad explains that it's much more lightweight and has a lot less use of statics, making it a lot more testable.
• Brad talks about the hosting models for Web API, including both web and selfhost. He explains that it's pluggable, so you can write your own host, and explains the use of HTTP Message Handlers.
• Jon asks about the relation of ASP.NET MVC 4 to .NET 4.5. Brad explains how parts were backported to allow for using .NET 4.5 features on .NET 4.
• Jon asks about the query composition support, which gives support for OData query syntax. Brad explains how it's used, and distinguishes the query syntax from the rest of OData format.
• Brad explains how ASP.NET Web API is the future of WCF Web API, and that the ASP.NET team and WCF teams have merged.
• Brad talks about how Web API can be used outside of ASP.NET. Jon asks how to get Web API into another project type, and Brad talks about installing Web API via NuGet.
• Jon asks for more information about how NuGet is used in the MVC installation system. Brad talks about how NuGet and VSIX can be integrated.
• Jon asks about why NuGet Package Restore is useful.
• Jon notes that creating new projects is slower due to NuGet installation. Brad says this may be improved, but even if it isn't he thinks that the tradeoff is more than worthwhile, since in the real world people aren't creating new projects every day.
• Jon asks for a bit more information about the Display Mode Provider.
• Brad talks about the installation options for ASP.NET MVC 4 Beta and how it relates to the .NET 4.5 developer previews.
• Jon asks about Go Live license, Brad says it's there.
• Jon asks about new features in xUnit.net. Brad talks about the last release and what's in the roadmap for the next release.
• Brad mentions that he'll be speaking at NDC this summer and talks about the Wrox MVC 4 book.

Show Links:

• Brad Wilson - blog, twitter
• ASP.NET MVC 4 Beta info
• xUnit.net
• Henrik's blog

Episode 133

In this episode, the guys talk with Derick Bailey (consultant and founder of watchmecode.net, where he sells JavaScript themed screen casts) about Backbone.js, which is a popular JavaScript framework.

Herding Code 133: Derick Bailey on Backbone.js

• Derick starts off by explaining what Backbone is not: a JavaScript MVC framework.
• Backbone provides a way to structure and organize your code, separating responsibilities in to easily recognizable pieces.
• Derick points out that Jeremy Ashkenas, the creator of Backbone, said that Backbone is a library. The distinction Derick references is: "a framework calls your code, you call a library's code."
• Kevin asks what are the main parts of Backbone. Derick mentions models and collections, views, routers, and some helpers: backbone.sync, backbone.events, and history.
• Kevin asks for a clarification on what a single-page application is. Derick cites Gmail as the canonical example.
• Kevin asks if Backbone is mainly used for single-page applications. Derick explains that it is very flexible and can be used as much or as little as necessary for any kind of application.
• Jon asks if using Backbone is an all or nothing proposition or if bits and pieces can be brought in over time.
• Kevin asks for a comparison to other similar JavaScript libraries/frameworks.
• Jon asks if there are any template or boiler plate projects for getting started with Backbone.
• K. Scott asks about Derick's Memento plugin, which allows you to store and restore your model's state.
• Kevin asks Derick why he thinks Backbone has become so popular.
• Jon asks about the process and requirements for creating Backbone plugins.
• Jon asks about the debugging story when using Backbone.
• Kevin asks about tools and approaches for testing Backbone.
• Kevin asks if there are any sources for best practices for Backbone.
• Twitter questions from @elijahmanor: "In what type of applications would you not recommend using Backbone?", "Do you plan to consolidate your blog posts into a Backbone book?", "Have you done any mobile development with Backbone?, "Do you use Require.js alongside Backbone?"
• Kevin and Derick discuss server-side rendering of JavaScript with Backbone for the purpose of being easily findable by search engines.
• Derick talks about the on-site training and training videos that he offers.

Show Links:

• Derick Bailey blog
• Twitter
• Backbone
• Jeremy Ashkenas - Founder of Backbone
• Zepto.js
• Backbone.js Is Not An MVC Framework
• SproutCore
• Batman.JS
• Ember.js
• JavaScriptMVC
• Agility.js
• Knockout
• Spine
• CoffeScript
• Knockback
• Dericks Backbone data binding plugin
• Bocoup - Introducing the Backbone Boilerplate
• Backbone mailing list (Google Group)
• Backbone.Marionette
• BBCloneMail on GitHub
• BBCloneMail live on Heroku
• Backbone.Memento
• Underscore.js
• Joey Beninghove
• QUnit
• Jasmine
• jasmine-jquery
• Sinon.js
• Rob Conery refactors the Backbone.js todo list sample
• Derick's list of Backbone resources
• Require.js
• backbonetraining.net
• watchmecode.net

Episode 132

In this episode, they guys talk with Phil Haack and Paul Betts (both new GitHubbers) and Keith Dahlby (author of posh-git, a set of PowerShell scripts which provide Git/PowerShell integration) about using Git on Windows.

Download / Listen:

Herding Code 132: Phil Haack, Keith Dahlby and Paul Betts on Git for Windows developers

Show Notes:

• Paul begins with talking about why he thinks Git is cool, starting with the ability to create a clean source history that's based on intent.
• Phil says some people who aren't used to distributed version control get the wrong impression of rewriting history. The idea is that you're rewriting history as you work locally to build a clean commit. You don't generally rewrite history once you've pushed to the master repository.
• Keith says he tells people that when you push, it's permanent. Until then, you can pretend you're perfect. It's just a save point - this reminds Jon of a quote from Dave Ward that this is like the ability to create save points anywhere in a video game.
• Scott K says this is all great in theory, but he never sees people taking advantage of history rewriting. He goes on to say that he loves GitHub but hates Git because Git hates developers - rewriting history is way too hard.
• Phil says that this makes more sense when you think of this in terms of replaying changes.
• Phil says that he really started liking Git after reading the site Think Like (a) Git.
• Paul says that he thinks this would be a lot easier to understand if you could see and work with things visually. Scott K says gitk kind of works but it's clunky. Keith talks about gitk a bit more.
• Scott K talks about how he regularly ends up with a corrupted state and asks for recommendations. Paul says the solution is to use either git reset or git rebase and explains what they mean. Jon asks for more info, and Paul talks about git reset --hard.
• Phil talks about the importance of following an established workflow to avoid problems or getting in a state you don't understand. He talks about the published workflow they use for the NuGet Gallery. Paul talks about how he and Phil are working on improving the interface to make it easy to follow working patterns.
• K Scott talks about one confusion is that there are so many commands and parameters. Keith says that you can get by with a tiny subset, and can grow as needed.
• Kevin asks if it's possible to get your repository into a corrupted state, or if users are just getting confused by a valid state. Paul talks about some finer points of how things are stored and wraps up by saying really the only way to lose work with Git is to mess up or delete uncommitted changes or files.
• Twitter question from @LeeFlannery: "can you discuss how command line git for Win isn't so scary - stop waiting for integrated VS tooling to use git." Paul talks about how the MSysGit makes things unnecessarily confusing by making you think you need to use the Bash prompt.
• Twitter question from @JavierLozano: "Why use powershell instead of bash for a console client? What are the gains?" Keith explains how posh-git gives you a Windows native experience (e.g. Windows style file paths). Phil talks about how the posh-git tab extensions give you an IntelliSense-ish experience with Git. Keith explains that posh-git does things like keeps track of which file have been added, so you can autocomplete files you're adding rather than have to type them out.
• Scott K says that posh-git was slow when he tried to use it and asks if performance has been improved. Keith says that posh-git calls git status on every action to offer contextual tab expansions and explains how to disable that for faster performance.
• Keith talks about installing posh-git using psget, and more advanced use by cloning the posh-git repo and customizing it. Jon asks why installing posh-git in command-line didn't work in the PowerShell ISE, and Keith explains that there are separate profiles for PowerShell command line, PowerShell ISE, and the NuGet Package Manager prompt in Visual Studio.
• Question from John Sheehan: "What are some of the other things outside of tooling that are impediments to Windows users adopting Git." Paul lists several: line endings, SSH keys, the MSysGit install, and the git commit using vi in compatibility mode.
• Keith says that MSysGit isn't Git for Windows, it's Git for Linux developers on Windows - it doesn't behave like Windows at all. Keith asks who runs MSysGit.
• Phil says there are a lot of conceptual obstacles to adoption, and says that he thinks it's necessary to make it easier to do simple things without worrying about obscure and advanced options.
• Jon talks about the frustrations in typing in the SSH passphrase and asks for suggestions. Paul talks about ssh-agent.
• Jon asks for specifics about what Paul and Phil are working on. Paul say the idea is similar features to GitHub for Mac - not necessarily in design, but featureset.
• Jon says that he likes how the TortoiseHg tooling shows the command-line version you could have typed when you perform operations in the GUI. Paul agrees that's useful, and Keith points out that it's available in Git Extensions.
• Scott K says that he likes the built in Mercurial server and says it'd be nice if Git made it easier to run a Git repo on Windows. Paul says that it's really easy to set that using a fileshare. Scott K says he uses that, but it's not as discoverable as the Mercurial webserver. Keith talks about how setting up he's seen this set up using per-user shares.
• Twitter question from @jeremydmiller "Are you concerned that folks spend so much time debating and tweaking their Git workflow that they'll forget to actually code?" Phil and Keith discuss two popular GitHub workflows: GitHub Flow and git-flow.
• Twitter question from @kppullin "why must line endings be so painful!" Paul explains the source of the problem and how autocrlf tries to solve that, and there's a general about how problems occur.
• Keith talks about using gitattributes to do things like telling Git to use C# differencing with .cs files.
• Jon asks finding good, non-hostile documentation. Scott K says that all the books focus on happy path documentation rather than useful stuff. Some useful online resources are listed, including Think Like (a) Git, The Git Parable, and ProGit.org.
• Keith jokingly asks if we can talk about why Git is better than Mercurial. Jon takes the bait, and hilarity ensues.
• There's a long discussion about the usefulness of a clean history and the ability to accurately use "blame" to understand when a bug was introduced.
• Things start to wrap up and K Scott asks for last thoughts. Paul mentions GitPad, which sets Notepad as your Git commit editor. Keith recommends Console2. Phil points out a neat hidden feature on GitHub - using T to get incremental search.

Show Links:

• Phil Haack - @haacked
• Keith Dahlby - @dahlbyk
• Paul Betts - @xpaulbettsx
• GitHub
• Think Like (a) Git
• posh-git
• Phil's recent post about posh-git: Better Git with PowerShell
• gitk
• GitHub Flow
• git-flow
• Git Extensions
• GitHub for Mac
• The Git Parable
• ProGit.org
• ProGit chapter on gitattributes
• GitPad
• Console2

Episode 131

Herding Code 131 - Chris Williams and Matthew Podwysocki on the Javascript community