Herding Code

Episode 101

In this episode of Herding Code, the guys talk to Kelly Sommers.

• Jon asks Kelly about her first big post, What fuels my passion for technology & writing code
• Kelly talks about her experience getting started on Twitter
• Jon asks Kelly about her post on how desktop UI's feel boring compared to mobile UI's
• Jon and Kelly discuss notification systems like Growl
• Scott K talks about how non-Windows operating systems have included things like multiple desktops, status widgets, etc. for a while
• The discussion moves to how Windows is focused on the mouse, and how we'd like to see desktop UI's that are geared towards touch and keyboard
• Jon mentions Desktops as a multiple desktop interface for Windows
• Jon drops his Alt+Space keyboard secret, and Kelly counters that it's old news
• The discussion moves on to synchronizing applications and systems
• Jon brings up Mesh, and Kelly talks about why it didn't catch on as much as it could have. Jon talks about how there's a chicken and egg problem with cool Microsoft API's which aren't used in Microsoft products, and Scott Koon talks about how he though Mesh applications seemed cool but he just couldn't get a hold of the SDK.
• Next, the discussion moves to mobile development. Jon asks Kelly for her opinion of how Windows Phone development compares with other mobile development platforms.
• Jon and Kelly discuss the Metro UI and UI discoverability in general
• Kelly talks about performance tips for Windows Phone
• Jon asks if there is any cross-platform development between mobile platforms
• K. Scott asks about the upgrade scenario
• Darrel Miller asks via Twitter about the online brainstorming meetings Kelly had previously proposed
• Jackson Harper asks via Twitter what's the most interesting thing Kelly has learned in the past month, and the conversation switches to node.js, threading, fibers, etc.
• The gang discusses the Await keyword, recently announced at PDC
• Scott K. asks for bets on how long until Await shows up in the Mono nightly builds
• Random speculation of whether the Async CTP actually works on .NET 4
• Kevin compares the Await syntactic sugar approach to hiding asynchronicity with the node.js approach which embraces node.js.

Show Links:

• Kelly Sommers (blog, @kellabyte)
• Desktops utility
• Hanselminutes Podcast 228 - Performance of Silverlight on Windows Phone 7
• Windows Phone 7 Developer Tips and Tricks from Jeff Wilcox (posted by Tim Heuer)
• Windows Phone "Really" commercial
• Nathan Bowers (blog, @nathanbowers)
• Darrel Miller (blog, @darrel_miller)
• REST Fest
• Jackson Harper, @jacksonh
• The Async CTP link on MSDN
• Eric Lippert's series on Continuation Passing Style
• FAQ's on the Async keyword

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Herding Code 101: Kelly Sommers

Episode 100

One hundred shows! Her Majesty Queen Beatrix shows up and talks with the gang about the previous 99 shows. Jon summarizes the server logs and beatboxes, K Scott talks about his jetset life via a flaky internet connection, Kevin reveals that this isn't the podcast he thought he was signing up for, and Scott K explains why The Fat Boys follow him on Twitter.

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Herding Code 100: One Hundredth Show Celebration with Queen Beatrix

[music loop during autotune bit courtesy of Incompetech]

Episode 99

In this episode of Herding Code, the guys talk to David Ebbo, an architect on the Microsoft Web Platform and Tools team, about NuGet, a new open source package management system for the .NET platform.

• David describes the history of NuGet - how NuGet evolved from a web-based feature for use in ASP.NET Web Pages and the inspiration from a web-based database admin tool by David Fowler.
• Jon asks about how NuGet is related to the ASP.NET Web Admin site which was included in ASP.NET 2.0.
• David then tells about how, at Scott Guthrie's prompting, the idea involved and how NuGet joined up up with the Nu project.
• K. Scott asks about how NuGet works in practice using the Package Management Console.
• There's a brief discussion of the name, and David foreshadows the impending name change to NuGet.
• K. Scott asks about which packages are currently available, and what's involved in contributing a new package.
• Scott K. asks about creating aliases, and David talks about the ability to change things via PowerShell.
• David describes some of the logic involved in dependency management.
• There's a Twitter question from David Alpert about customizing the package installation folder.
• K. Scott asks if this is usable in all Visual Studio projects, not just web projects.
• Kevin asks about configuration transforms.
• K. Scott asks about the overlap between all the different developer installer systems - Web PI, NuGet, and the Visual Studio Extension manager. David explains how the focus of NuGet is very focused on bringing libraries into one project.
• Jon asks if they've seen people using NuGet in ways they hadn't anticipated, mentioning a post by Eric Hexter on integrating NuGet and Solution Factory. David talks about how a NuGet package can include PowerShell scripts, which means you can add commands to the Package Manager console, describing how the NUnit package adds commands which allow you to run tests from the console.
• Scott K. asks about the use of NuGet for... you guessed it... Javascript.
• Kevin asks if NuGet could be integrated with the new project wizard.
• Jon asks if there's any possible integration with Visual Studio Snippets. David explains how packages are including source code with sample code, and how this fits the use of project level source code better.
• Jon asks about Web Activator.
• K. Scott asks about how you'd run a local package repository. David talks about how you can do this by just putting packages in a folder.
• Jon asks about how a package gets officially submitted and added to the feed.
• Kevin remarks about the way NuGet is working as an open source project which accepts submissions from both Microsoft employees and the community.
• There's a Twitter question from Elijah Manor about managing Javascript dependencies.
• Kevin is happy to see the unit test coverage in NuGet, and asks about the unit test coverage requirements for package submissions.
• Jon asks if there's any integration of Mercurial beyond the server-side package submission.
• K. Scott asks about the possibility of future integration between NuGet and OpenWrap.
• Jon talks about how he sees a lot of opportunity for NuGet to introduce some great open source libraries to developers and development shops which might not previously have considered using them.
• Kevin asks if this is another example of a Microsoft initiative squashing existing open source projects. David talks about how NuGet was created to fill a void where they didn't see any leading package management systems for the .NET platform.
• K. Scott asks about David's T4MVC project. David talks about how it's been really interesting and exciting for him as his first open source project.
• Jon asks about how T4MVC is run on project build, and David mentions the Chirpy project.
• Jon asks about how David divides his time between NuGet, ASP.NET Web Pages, ASP.NET in general, and T4MVC.
• David ends with a call for contributions to NuGet.

Show Links:

• David Ebbo (blog, @davidebbo)
• NuGet
• David Fowler (blog, @davidfowl)
• Light up your NuGets with startup code and WebActivator
• Eric Hexter (blog, @ehexter)
• Using Solution Factory + NuPack to create Opinionated Visual Studio Solutions
• OuterCurve Foundation
• OpenWrap
• T4MVC
• Chirpy
• Elijah Manor (@elijahmanor)
• David Alpert (@davidalpert)

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Herding Code 99: David Ebbo on NuGet

Episode 98

In the previous episode, when the guys were talking to Jackson Harper about Manos de Mono, he mentioned that Dale Ragan was doing cooking up something really exciting for hosting ASP.NET web applications with support for deployment via Git or Mercurial. So, they called him up and recorded a show right then and there. Jackson stayed on, and we got the scoop on Moncaí. Get the scoop and find out how you can get in on the just announced private beta.

• Jon asks about where we can keep up with information about SineSignal.
• There's a discussion of what Heroku is, and how Moncai relates to Heroku.
• Dale describes how he the idea got started and how deployment works.
• What's a Moncaí? Dale explains.
• Dale explains how the infrastructure works, with Linux and Mono running in virtual environments.
• Kevin and Jon ask about how Mono hosting affects ASP.NET support.
• Jon asks about fractional CPU pricing, which leads to another cool feature - free accounts until you need to scale up.
• Dale talks about how this compares to other virtual hosting offerings.
• Jackson (still on the call from last show) jumps in with some info on running Mono from Visual Studio.
• There's talk about future possibilities - Mercurial, Windows support (and the complexities with SSH), support for other stacks.
• Jon asks about the next steps for go-live.
• Kevin asks about batch jobs, and Dale talks about the extension points for add-on and web hooks.
• Jackson asks about local file access.
• Everyone decides that this is really cool, and the show ends.

Show Links:

• Moncaí
• SineSignal

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Herding Code 98: Dale Ragan on Moncaí

Episode 97

In this episode of Herding Code, the guys talk with Jackson Harper about Manos de Mono, his lightweight web application framework that runs on Mono. The goal of Manos is to simplify the entire process of creating, managing and updating a web application from prototyping and design to deployment.  Manos aims to be Simple, Testable, High Performance, Reusable and Flexible. Sounds kind of dreamy, right?  Listen in this week and find out how C# and Mono can be a viable option for web application development.

• The show kicks off with Harper offering an overview of the Manos Web Application Framework. He notes his preference in using frameworks like Django over ASP.NET, his appreciation  for Mono and  C# and how these factors lent themselves to the creation of Manos.
• Kevin asks what's different and interesting about Manos compared to ASP.NET MVC.  Jackson speaks the philosophy of application development and digs into simplifying developer workflow. 
• Kevin asks what Manos includes.  Harper lists off the simple routing, template engine and a non-blocking web server.  He also notes that Manos will support any ORM and configuration management is in the works.
• The guys talk about the simple and flexible routing system and continue to conversation by digging into Manos's html-centric templating engine. 
• Jackson walks through the developer steps to get going with Manos and is quick to note that Manos is not geared to the Windows developer.  There will be Mac and Windows support but it is being build with Linux in mind.
• Kevin and Jackson get into the core bits - what's included from the .NET Framework and what's custom built?  Harper calls out that he's not referencing System.Web and his custom HTTP server is built on Tornado.
• Jon asks about session management, authentication and security.  Jackson talks about how the wish to ease deployment drove much of the implementation and custom component decisions.
• Jackson further explains his interest in creating his non-blocking web server and why it benefits such operations as long pulling.  This prompts Jon to asks if Manos is an alternative to learning Node.js.
• Jackson talks about stealing users and pie.
• Jackson talks about his strict No XML policy and how that will work into Manos's configuration management faculties.
• Kevin and Jackson explore model binding in ASP.NET MVC and Manos.
• Jon summarize what Manos has to offer - lght-weight, more html-like view engine, the routing system is nice, non-threaded architecture and high-performance - and asks how Harper decides what gets into Manos?  Jackson explains the framework is more driven by need rather than trying to implement merely what other frameworks offer.
• K Scott asks about the challenges of working with a static language, C#, in this space.  Jackson flips the question on its head and talks about the benefits.
• K Scott and Jackson talk about open and close mustaches, type safety, anonymous types and Manos's templating code.
• Kevin asks about inspiration and Jackson reflects on how Manos came to be - starting with a focus on development flow to his need for a cleaner view engines to ease of deployment and then his interest in a non-blocking web server.
• Jon asks about applications running on Manos and the long pulling niche.
• Jackson talks about how .NET sets itself apart from other languages when it comes to parallelism and multi-core computing.   Jon and Jackson talk about how parallel extensions are used in Manos and how Manos could be used to manage tasks on the server with C#.
• @zbowling asks about the C10K Problem and the ability to handle 10,000 connections at once.
• Scott K and Jackson discuss how have your own HTTP stack makes development and deployment a lot easier.
• The show wraps with talk of route definition management, Sinatra and Cooking for Geeks.

Show Links:

• Jackson Harper, @jacksonh
• Novell
• Mono
• Manos de Mono: The Manifesto
• Manos on Github
• Moonlight
• Django
• Razor
• Spark
• NHiberate
• Sinatra
• Tornado Web
• Parallel Extensions
• Comet
• Node.Js
• libev
• Kayak 

Show notes compiled by Ben Griswold. Thanks!

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Herding Code 97: Jackson Harper on Manos

Episode 96

This week on Herding Code, the guys talk with Eric Sink, cofounder of SourceGear, about Veracity and Distributed Version Control Systems. Listen in and learn about Veracity's architecture including pluggable layers and a unique approach to data storage all built on an impressive technical stack. And get an answer to the question that everyone's asking "Why does the world need another DVCS?" All this and more, this week on Herding Code.

• Kevin wastes no time kicking the show off with THE question - "Why Veracity? Why another DVCS?" Eric talks DVCS and the future of source control, how Git and Mercurial are just getting us started and how there's no distributed system which is good at solving problems of the enterprise.
• So, what does Veracity offer that Git, Mercurial and Bazaar do not? Eric describes record, field and constraint-based (opposed to folder and file-based) version control and how if it fits nicely inside of Application Lifecycle Management (ALM).
• Eric compares the Veracity data storage model with NoSQL and Berkeley DB. This prompts Jon to ask about where SQLite comes into play.
• Eric digs into the pluggable storage layer, "Zing" and component layers for Scrum or wikis, for example.
• Jon asks about the nightly snapshots (releases) and Eric runs us through the intentionally not-so-easy build process.
• The conversation shifts back to differences between Veracity and a Git or Mercurial. The guys talk about branching models and rebasing.
• Scott K asks about free source control hosting and the guys comment about the community and social networking aspect of Bitbucket and GitHub.
• Kevin asks if there was ever thought of building ALM tools on top of Mercurial or Git. Eric talks about DVCS functionality, licensing and what the enterprise wants.
• Eric explains Veracity's open source license, which components will and will not be open sources and speaks to community patches.
• Jon asks if the Veracity data layer could be used to support other applications and not just version control.
• Scott K asks about dogfooding Veracity - when did SourceGear start versioning Veracity in Veracity?
• Eric explains his choice to write Veracity in C. The guys talk about cross platform development and Scott K asks about extensions and wrappers.
• Jon beats Scott K to the punch and asks why Node.js isn't included in Veracity's impressive technical stack.
• Kevin asks about plans to develop a Visual Studio plugin or a version control tools like TortoiseSVN.
• Eric answers a Twitter question from Andrew Tobin about migration support. Kevin ask if there will be a feature like GitSVN for Veracity.
• Kevin asks Eric to explain the need for exclusive file locks. Eric explains this need for industries like Gaming which deal with a large amount of binary files.
• Jon and Eric talk more about the enterprise and what's important to them.
• Jon talks more about Veracity's stack and the use of (wait for it) SVG for Veracity burn down charts.
• Scott K asks why SourceGear went with SpiderMonkey over Script Monkey or V8.
• Jon talks about portability and asks if Mono has a place in Veracity development.
• Jon and Eric talk about Scrum and the enterprise's current interest in Agile. This topic rolls into talk of browsers.
• Kevin asks if SoureGear has concern that Microsoft may someday enter the DVCS space.
• Scott K wraps the show asking how Eric defines success for Veracity.

Show Links:

• Eric Sink
• SourceGear
• Vault
• Veracity
• Hanselminutes Podcast 231 - Eric Sink on Distributed Version Control Systems
• Git
• Mercurial
• Bazaar
• Berkeley DB
• SQLite
• Veracity Technical Overview
• node.js
• CMake, Kitware, KDE Project
• Bitbucket, Atlassian
• GitHub
• FogCreek
• Ben Pollack
• Andrew Tobin
• Perforce
• SpiderMonkey
• Script Monkey
• V8
• Mosaic

Show notes compiled by Ben Griswold. Thanks!

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Herding Code 96: Eric Sink on Veracity and DVCS

Episode 95

Hey, it's a bunch of Mono guys! That's always fun. This time they're talking about MonoDroid. Joining the gang this week are Miguel de Icaza, Joseph Hill, Geoff Norton, and Mike Kestner talk about developing .NET applications for the Android platform with Mono.

• Jon asks about where MonoDroid is at in the product lifecycle.
• Jon asks about the install experience, which currently requires installing a few dependencies to get set up. Miguel and Joseph clarify that it's a pretty simple setup, and explain why it currently works that way.
• We talk about the File / New Project experience, and how MonoDroid projects are structured.
• Miguel describes the API flavor for MonoDroid, and how it follows the MonoTouch and GTK# approach of keeping pretty close to the underlying API's and pipeline - e.g. accessing images as resources. Mike talks about how API is mapped to run on the .NET primitives and collections.
• The guys talk about how software architectures vary across iPhone, Android, and Windows Phone 7. Miguel and Geoff talk about the difficulty in building real-world applications which are can share back-end code across platforms.
• The talk shifts to nerdy details about how .NET code is being deployed to the Java-based Android platform and a discussion of  the performance impacts of crossing those boundaries.
• Geoff and Mike talk about the challenges of integrating the different platforms.
• Kevin asks about what MonoDroid brings to the Android platform, since the Java runtime is already kind of similar to .NET. Miguel talks about how they've seen even higher developers interest in MonoDroid than MonoTouch, and everyone speculates about why that might be.
• Scott K asks about some of the challenges in implementing Mono on Android, and Mike digs into the differences in generics between .NET and Java.
• K. Scott asks about the ability to wrap or extend the Mono.Android API's.
• Kevin asks about rather underlying services are exposed as native API's or generalized API's. Miguel explains why it's necessary to expose at the native API level.
• Kevin asks more about how code can be shared between MonoDroid and MonoTouch projects.
• Jon asks about whether they're looking at anything for Windows Phone 7. Miguel talks about the possibility of adding unsupported API's, and Geoff talks about how this has been pretty popular on Windows XBox.
• Greg Shackles asks a question via Twitter about how developers can get involved and contribute to both Mono and MonoDroid.
• Geoff talks about the MonoMac project.
• K. Scott asks if there's still support for PowerPC in Mono.
• Sara Chipps asks whether iPhone or Androids are more difficult to support. The surprising answer: neither!
• Everyone talks about how people will actually buy apps on their phones, and the iCircuit app comes up as an example of a great MonoTouch app that's making some money.
• Kevin asks about the pricing for MonoDroid. The word is that it'll be pretty similar to MonoTouch.
• Miguel mentions Manos de Mono from Jackson Harper.
• Scott K asks about plans for other phone platforms. Joseph says the plan is to go where developers go.

Show Links:

• MonoDroid
• Miguel de Icaza, @migueldeicaza
• Geoff Norton @kangamono
• Joseph Hill, @JosephHill
• Mike Kestner
• Android Development info
• Jonathan Pobst, @jpobst
• Greg Shackles, @gshackles
• MonoMac
• Sara Chipps, @sarajchipps
• iCircuit
• Manos de Mono from @jacksonh
• Courage Wolf
• Son, I am disappoint
• Gimp Clone Tool and Gimp Perspective Clone Tool
• Scanners Gonna Scan
• evercookie

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Herding Code 95: MonoDroid with Miguel and the Mono gang

Episode 94

This week on Herding Code, the guys talk to Adam Kinney and Rick Barraza about how Silverlight fits into a world where HTML5 is finally becoming a reality.

• Jon asks about Adam and Rick's opinions on the recent post on the Silverlight Team Blog about the future of Silverlight
• Adam talks about he sees consumer applications and games as great applications of Silverlight
• Rick talks about how how some developers are resistant to change, then talks about the longterm evolution of the internet from information provider, to application provider, and finally to operating system
• Adam and Rick talk about the Wired Article titled The Web Is Dead. Long Live The Internet.
• The talk shifts Silverlight as an application platform, not just a web plugin
• Jon asks how likely it is to be able to reuse Silverlight across web, phone, and out-of-browser applications
• Rick talks about The Future of the Internet and How To Stop It
• The talk shifts to discussion over how cross-platform HTML5 can be when it's limited by things like video codecs and browser targeting
• Scott Koon talks about how HTML5 is a loose collection of many different technologies
• Scott Koon asks where the live Silverlight apps are - he just doesn't see them in the wild
• Adam and Rick talks about the advantages of developing in Silverlight vs. HTML5. Rick talks about the lack of tooling for HTML5
• Kevin asks about the enterprise advantages of Silverlight development
• The guys talk about the differences between canvas/bitmap graphics vs. SVG/vector graphics
• Jon and Rick talk about the importance of having access to low level building blocks so you can build what you need
• Scott K asks what's left that Silverlight does that HTML5 doesn't offer. Rick talks about the tooling, Adam talks about consistent cross-browser support.
• Scott K asks about MVVM and whether Silverlight's been taken over by architecture astronauts and propellerheads rather than the designers. Adam and Jon talk about how MVVM can make life easier for designers as well.
• K Scott talks about his experiences with an enterprise Silverlight application
• Rick talks about being a samurai rather than a swordsman - don't be married to your tools
• Rick says that the biggest advantage of Silverlight is that it's a programming language which was designed for applications rather than HTML which was designed for documents
• Scott K and Kevin ask whether Silverlight makes sense in public web applications
• Jon asks Adam and Rick about what they've been building with HTML5 and what they like about that development experience
• Rick and Adam talks about the changing environment and how the rich vs. reach question has changed

Show Links:

• Adam Kinney, @adkinn
• Rick Barraza, @RickBarraza
• Silverlight Team Blog: The Future of Silverlight
• The Web Is Dead. Long Live The Internet. (Wired magazine)
• The Future of the Internet and How To Stop It
• The Wilderness Downtown
• Do That In HTML5 - Flash Button Challenge
• HTML5, XAML, and Declarative User Interfaces (@ShawnWildermuth)
• Silverlight is the Future but the Future Isn't Silverlight (Scott K's blog)
• http://www.beautyoftheweb.com/

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Herding Code 94: Silverlight and HTML5

Episode 93

This week on Herding Code, it’s story time. Have you ever fallen victim to a software glitch?  Are you frustrated by those green screens which are still running social security, the IRS and the DMV?  Ever dealt with a medical database? Or maybe you owned a Zune on December 31, 2008? If so, you’ll want to listen in on the guys sharing tales about how software has personally bitten them in the you-know-where (and by you-know-where I mean their asses.)

Warning: Rob Conery get pulled into this show and shares a funny story of his own.

Then stick around for an extended lightning round nerd out about home media.  The guys offer their opinions on the all-new (as of the day of the recording) Apple TV and then touch upon other home streaming options including Amazon, Netflix and Windows Media Center (whatever that is.)  Jon entertains the idea of having computers on your TV and then the guys dig into this space’s complex business model.  The show wraps with a quick review of the Windows Phone 7 RTM and Silverlight support.

Show Links: 

• Sara Chipps, @SaraJChipps
• Rob Conery, @robconery
• Zune Leap Year Failures
• Apple TV
• Amazon Video On Demand
• Netflix
• Windows Media Center
• Roku
• Google TV
• Extreme Chickfights
• Clay Shirky – The Collapse of Complex Business Models
• The Collapse of Complex Societies
• Silverlight Hack: Info on differences between Silverlight 3 and Windows Phone 7 
• Eric Hexter, @ehexter 

Show notes compiled by Ben Griswold. Thanks!

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Herding Code 93: Computer Errors, Home Media, and The Fall of The Roman Empire

Episode 92