Hold For Podcast

Shane Arthur rejoins Alex and Macon for the final episode of Season One. We catch up on how his business has changed since he was last on, and we think about what it means to coach coaches. We also talk about what this season has been about or if it has been about anything at all.

Season 2 will pick up in September, though we may have some shorter, interim episodes during the summer.

Show Notes:

Coach Shane Arthur

Previously, Shane Arthur: S1E14

Tiny Steps, working.

Don’t take a sales call with Kevin.

There are many Pro Tours. Here is one.

InterVarsity Area Director Job Description from 2016

Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement (BATNA)

If Walk Away is your BATNA, you’re in a good position, just ask these fans of Mr. Rogers.

What’s happening at HFP? You might say it’s a quest for answers.

The Wisdom Path

Liminality

Joe Moore joins us again to talk about Joy after and during suffering, the challenges of spiritual growth for people in these groups we call churches, and generally makes demands that our wives make appearances on HFP.

Show Notes:

Previously, on HFP with Joe: Companionship in Suffering

Death of Dreams

The Hagberg-Guelich Model of Stages in the Life of Faith

The Music Man had it right: there were bells, on the hill, but you never heard them ringing.

The Other Half of Church

The Light Behind Your Eyes

Some emotional theories have trouble with mixed emotions, others do not.

Dunbar’s Number: the number of relationships a primate can handle. Humans can handle around 150ish.

We’ve talked about Megachurches

Eugene Peterson wrote many books

Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse

Spider-Punk

Theosis

Evan Gates is a Right Handed Pitcher, in the San Francisco Giants organization. He talks to us about life in the Minor Leagues, the Joy of Baseball, and following Jesus in a fluid and changeable environment.

Show Notes

Richmond Flying Squirrels

NCA&T Baseball

Yadier Molina

Gator not Gaiter

Gates of Fire

Gatekeeper

Gates of Hell

6/25 Win over Harrisburg, 7-2

Rubber Band Man

* Possibly the best cover you have ever seen.

What You Know

* if songs have opposites, here it is: What You Know

Ms. Jackson

* not to be confused with Miss Jackson

juco

HBCU

YouVersion

Evan’s “homes” in the past year.

High School Class of 2016 pop culture

SF Giants System

Life-changing minor league Collective Bargaining Agreement

Minor League Host Families phased out

Be Where Your Feet Are

* is also a song

* seems like Jason Mraz really likes roller skates

Anchor Statements

12 Athlete Rituals

Broken Bats were a significant problem back in 2013

World Baseball Classic

Adam Wainwright

Uncle Charlie (Adam Wainwright noted here.)

Abner Doubleday, angel of God?

Shohei Ohtani

* highlight reel

Evan has been on other podcasts where they talked more about baseball.

* Unparalleled Performance Podcast with Evan Gates March 2023

* Beyond Baseball Shorts: Evan Gates April 2023

* There R Giants with Evan Gates May 2023

Evan’s socials

* instagram

* twitter

It took us two tries to talk about this well. Two weeks ago we recorded a 45 min conversation and then dumped it. This time Alex, Marshall, and Macon do a better job talking though how to be wise about leaving a church, and how to be wise about watching people leave. Plus our time of [Fantastic Marketing Name] where we get our periodic movie reviews.

Show Notes:

The Flash: 5 Stars! (Also S1E20: 5 Stars!)

The First Batman Movie (if you're a GenXer)

Elemental

Up

Blue Beetle

The MCU

Green Lantern, The Hulk, Fantastic Four

It’s FY-ghee.

More than 5 different Spider-Man Comic Book Series.

Safe House

n00b

Logan

Shane

Was the above:

Joe Moore Episode S1E19

Should I Stay or Should I Go (but the vibe when you are thinking about finding a new church)

I’m a girl watcher. Easily in the top 5 on the list named “Songs That Don’t Translate into 2023.”

It’s also a proud tradition that hasn’t happened yet.

Pastors have projects: S1E11 Why does a Church need a vision?

Praxis

Weekly reminder that you didn’t come to HFP for facts: It wasn’t Jesus’ trial, it was Peter and John having been arrested.

druthers

“20 Reasons Why We Left” sounds like a sequel to 10 Things I Hate About You.

Boundaries ← Very highly recommended by all HFP members.

They are prepositions! From the best Parts of Speech poster ever.

It’s “propriety.” “Properness” isn’t a word but if you can get it past the judges on HFP, it stays in play. If the ref doesn’t call it, it didn’t happen.

Joe Moore joins HFP to pick up on the subject of the Death of Dreams. Specifically exploring the relationship between Spiritual Formation and suffering. But it’s not all gloom and doom: Marshall gets a new band name, we find out what the K stands for in AK, and Joe give us a list of TV, Movie, and Book recommendations.

Show Notes:

* excoriate - yes

* exfoliate - yes

* excruciate - yes

* excorxiate - no

* excorciate - no

* excortiate - no

* excorshiate - no

* but if it did have a definition it would be: “to inflict severe pain on listeners by mushing together two words which results in the musher being strongly censured.”

Am I a ginger?

Spiritual Companion:

* no

* no

* no, no, no

* probably

As one unnaturally born.

Take a look at Alex now.

Same church

F.F. Bruce

N.T. Wright

Ronni’s

Rockbridge Camp

Core Soul Hungers Tree

shamwow

S1E17 The Death of Dreams

True Self / False Self summarized

* Written by Alice Fryling, herself one of those IV Senior Staff referred to.

Enneagram Types

The Denial of Death, by Ernest Becker.

* on Character Armor

Red Pill not the Blue Pill

“Red Pilled” now a thoroughgoing metaphor

Pattern Building: “Lord, my life is yours. Take me where you will.”

“If this is how you treat your friends..”

Night

Man’s Search for Meaning

The Critical Journey

Fowler’s Stages of Faith

* Summary

* Book

St. Dewey

Marshekinah Glory

Heartland

Pine Gap

Alias

Citadel

Green Book

Dear White People

Quantum Solution, Eric Van Lustbader (note: this is book four of the Evan Ryder series.)

Le Carre is an author (it’s a nom de plume). Selected bibliography here.

Joe Picket Series, by C.J. Box (24 books!)

Horatio Hornblower Series

Richard Sharpe Series

Marshall is back! Alex and Macon get behind-the-scenes access from Marshall’s trip to Kenya, which we explore with our usual seriousness and sobriety.

Show Notes:

Fast X

Fiero In Space

Guardians of The Galaxy 3

Get Out

Easy A

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

Snakes on a Plane

Marshall’s report to his church: Making Disciples in Kenya

Greensboro Urban Project Ya’ll (no longer a thing, so via the Wayback Machine) was started by Marshall back when he was on staff with InterVarsity

YWAM (Youth With A Mission)

Apparently, in Kenya, “It is common for hosts to offer tea. Accepting the offer means that one accepts the hospitality of the host.”

InterVarsity’s STIM (Student Training in Missions). (Thanks to IV’s Red River Region for having something online about it.)

It was Latin America Mission’s Spearhead program when I went. Now it’s called Avance with United World Mission.

The Ghost and The Darkness

Revelation 7:9

Pastor Maurice

* (speaking about Jesus, NOT the pompatus of love, and ESPECIALLY not this one. )

Marsh also wishes he were a baller and a little bit taller.

Top 10 Least Favorite Song Of All Time. (Top 10 Favoritist Cover Music Video.)

Langham Partnership

* Africa Bible Commentary

Brown University Library Special Collections

The Sockapellas

Rachelle McClintock returns to HFP. Macon and Alex talk to her about storing books, writing books, discovering what it is we have to say to the world, which leads to the Death of Dreams.

Show Notes:

Amish Romance Novels. They are actually a thing.

Stone Cold Jane Austen

Like your first Doctor, not to be confused with the First Doctor, everyone remembers their first Mr. Darcy:

* 1940

* 1995

* 2005

People shelving their books wrongly.

A Potemkin Library is this guy’s library.

How stacking works at Heathrow.

Alex totally redeems himself

Principles

Rachelle’s goodreads

our interview with Shane Arthur

Rachelle’s business: The McClintock Agency

Your childhood reading is graded on how many Newberry Award Winners you read.

Johnny Tremain

The Young Astronauts Club was a National educational program, complete with merch. (And cross-branding.)

The Right Stuff (the book)

The Right Stuff (the movie)

RIP Alex Anderson

Our Alex invites you to reflect on Lazarus

The Epistle to the Romans, Karl Barth

The Message of Romans, John Stott

It wasn’t Calvin, it was the Church Fathers: Ancient Christian Commentary, Romans.

Stop everything: go read The Great Divorce. Even better, go listen to The Great Divorce.

This setup would be sufficient.

Augustine’s approach even gets a shout out from Psychology Today.

J. Alex Kirk, author. (Someone needs to give IVP the bad news.)

You think it might be difficult, but Surrender is actually a cheap trick. (Or if you prefer, you can have your surrendering to be a bit more emo with 2020 production values.) (Someone needs to tell Bruce, this might not be the path of wisdom.)

Enneagram Three. Threes are self-assured, attractive, and charming. Ambitious, competent, and energetic, they can also be status-conscious and highly driven for advancement. (You’re never going to win HFP Bingo if you don’t learn these.)

You’re not going to slow Threes down. They’ve got to keep moving.

Hamilton was a three? Likely Threes would claim him.

Chaotic Neutral. The only way to be.

Tubthumping as Three Theme Song?

Africa cover, the one Marshall actually wanted.

There is no Rachelle podcast. YET. But when she does she’ll Win, like Emma Stone.

Alex bushwacks Macon and Marshall about Anger, and pushes all the buttons. But we’re not angry about it.

We talk about anger as a result of shame: feeling judged or that we’ve done it ‘wrong’ and, often, self-directed anger. We also talk about anger as a result of having the rules changed on us, and the relationship of justice to the rules.

Anger ain’t wrong, but it’s hard to do it right.

The final Show Note is the likeliest path.

Show Notes:

Chance The Rapper. A man of Three hats.

the LASA Raptors (aka Vertikills)

Seaforth Hawks

It took a lot to drag Marshall away from us. Probably took a hundred men or more to ever do. Set to music here in this acapella song.

Original version here. Weezer covers it with an accordion (eventually). There’s even a most excellent metal cover with long hair, double kick drum, needely needely guitar solo, and soprano vibrato singing.

However, if you click only one link today, make it the best Africa cover ever made in the history of all time. Stick with it and this too will be your favorite way to bless the rains. An 80s song, covered in a 50s style, while commenting on 2020 music, with a few J.J. Abrams lens-flares thrown in at the end.

Did production completely stop while listening to all the various covers people have made for Africa? Yep.

Marshall’s Missionary Journey

We leave it for the reader to do the compare and contrast exercise.

Marshall and Macon discussed guilt and shame in HFP’s Preseason in S0E14 Shamely Guilt.

Brene Brown Shame Ted Talk

Curt Thompson The Soul of Shame

It’s all ball bearings nowadays! (HFP represents no claim to accuracy in it’s quotes or references.)

Fletch remake(ish)

Hoodwinked, a Fletch cover.

David Puddy, on Seinfeld

Guardians of The Galaxy, Vol 3

The Rise of The Guardians

A Christmas Episode, An Easter Episode

The precipitating text:

Quantum Leap

Oh Boy Supercut

Enneagream Anger Triad

FisherPrice Popper, good for smashing things

We are up to the DSM-5

Unikitty, staying positive

Everything IS Awesome

Actual footage of when singing Everything Is Awesome ceases to work for Marshall.

Turns out, Shameless is the subject and title of a great many songs:

* Country: Garth Brooks

* Old Pop: Billy Joel (covering Garth Brooks)

* Pop: Camilla Cabello

* R&B: The Weekend

* Metal: Tokyo Motor Fist

* New Wave: Pet Shop Boys

* Singer Songwriter: Ani DiFranco

* EDM: Biometrix (remixing Camila)

Chess in an option in War Games, but the two games they actually play are Global Thermonuclear War and Tic-Tac-Toe.

Strike First, Strike Hard, No Mercy. (Contrary to our memory, Striking Fast appears to be optional.)

Trading Places

Arrested Development the show

Arrested Development the 80s Band

Joe the Plumber

Walk with the wise and become wise

Alex, Marsh, and Macon explore the why’s of Megachurches, not being megachurch people ourselves.

Show Notes

Marshall’s Walk Out Song for real

Marshall’s Ostensible walk out songs

* Thank God I’m a Country Boy

* (did you notice the musical reference JD makes? Sally Goodin. More here.)

* Loud & Heavy

* Cody Jinks seems do be doing fine.

* but he’s not “good”

Thanks Shane!

what does infamous mean?

The Magnificent 7 (1960)

The Seven Samurai (1954)

the other guy was Charles Bronson

Santo Poco and El Guapo

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

Seinfeld first aired July 5, 1989.

ER first aired September 19, 1994.

Easy A (actually came out only 13 years ago, but if we can agree that 2020-2021 was actually 7 years worth of trouble, then it was 20 years ago.)

There’s actually a Pitch Perfect reference in the notes above.

skank is actually in the dictionary.

The Magnificent Seven (2016)

Non-nefarious intense chums with ensuing, though winsome, hijinks: Polite Society

Marshall was a Hussman. (A Hussy?)

Run:Amok::Hijinks:Ensue

juggling amok

Dear Listener: make a request in the comments, and we’ll probably talk about it in a future show.

Barna says megachurch cutoff is 1K, but “most megachurch researchers” say 2k.

Today we learned that there’s such a thing as being a “megachurch researcher.”

Barna Research Group: “we put numbers on things!”

Dear Listener: let us know if you do want to ask Marsh to lead your Megachurch and let’s see what he chooses. We can get your people in touch with his people.

Bonhoeffer says it in Life Together. Both the man and the book: highly recommended.

Megachurch Coffee Review

Summit, a big whompin megachurch.

Lighting the church God’s way, but we’re probably not Raising Children God’s Way.

Eli Goldratt and The Goal

Globo-gyms and Crossfit, an example from 2012.

Peacock

Macon: One Episode Winning Streak

Alex, Macon, and Marshall interview their friend and former colleague, Shane Arthur. They ask him about the business of coaching, starting gradually, and the kinds of help driven professionals need.

Show Notes:

* Steak-Umms

* “On Grounds” See #4.

* Jimmy Long

* InterVarsity Regions, post VA, NC/SC split (RIP Blue Ridge Region).

* they probably didn’t live in the water

* of course ships need roads

* but not everyone does

* this is the book that got the Arthurs to Duke

* Not just poised. But poised for Growth.

* the next job “up” was National Field Director.

* the view of Executive Coaching back in 2014

* Shane, the LinkedIn version.

* Vistage - Kurt Graves

* bidness

* what do you want?

* one set of footprints

* Fierce Conversations

* the treasure was inside them the whole time

* opinions on what Shane should talk about while on HFP

* Why Greatness Cannot Be Planned: The Myth of the Objective

* turns out, there are 26 letters in the English alphabet. Pretty tricky, the English alphabet.

* Polanyian intuition

* “knotty”, not “naughty”

* cave as metaphor for personal exploration

* It’s actually a technical term: willfull blindness

* Mary Poppins Returned

* it’s a pretty solid approach to controlling demand

* Follow Shane on LinkedIn