Moses and Deborah emerge as powerful parallel figures in biblical leadership, both serving as judges and prophets who guided Israel through critical moments of crisis. Their stories reveal remarkable similarities in how they confronted oppression, witnessed cosmic water events, and demonstrated God's faithfulness through decisive action and victory songs.

By reflecting on their leadership, the narrative challenges traditional gender stereotypes and highlights how women like Deborah were integral, respected leaders who made significant contributions to their community. There are compelling connections between these Old Testament leaders and Jesus, showing how each embodied principles of justice, courage, and divine empowerment.

Quick Links:

• To learn more about Cheryl Luke, click here. 
• Visit the Visual Museum of Women in Christianity here.
• Learn more about Dr. Lynn Cohick here. 

Kat Armstrong:

Instagram: @katarmstrong1
Website: katarmstrong.com
Bible Studies: The Storyline Project

“Holy Curiosity with Kat Armstrong” is a production of The Center for Women in Leadership.

Producer: Taylor Standridge
Show Artwork: Amy Jones

Throughout Scripture, key figures often echo those who came before them, creating a tapestry of themes and patterns that lead us toward Jesus. One of the most fascinating comparisons in the Old Testament is between Moses and Deborah. While Deborah is often recognized as a judge and prophet, her role is much deeper—she is a Second Moses, a deliverer raised up by God for her generation. Here are five key similarities they share:

1. Both Faced Oppressive Rulers
2. Both Served as Judges for Their People
3. Both Witnessed Cosmic Water Events that Defeated Their Enemies
4. Both Experienced Victory in Battles Fought in Valleys
5. Both Had Songs Sung About Their Victories

While Moses and Deborah were remarkable leaders, they ultimately point us to Jesus—the final deliverer, judge, and victorious King.

Quick Links:

• Learn more about Nika here.
• Download the listener guide here.

Kat Armstrong:

Instagram: @katarmstrong1
Website: katarmstrong.com
Bible Studies: The Storyline Project

“Holy Curiosity with Kat Armstrong” is a production of The Center for Women in Leadership.

Producer: Taylor Standridge
Show Artwork: Amy Jones

Deborah was a remarkable leader in the Old Testament, serving as a prophet, judge, and military strategist for the nation of Israel. In this episode, Dr. Nijay Gupta joins host Kat Armstrong to explore Deborah's story and significance. They discuss how Deborah's leadership challenges common stereotypes about women in the Bible and how her example as a bold, Spirit-filled woman can inspire and empower believers today. Dr. Gupta also provides practical advice for women discerning a call to ministry or leadership roles in the church.

Quick Links:

• Learn more about Dr. Nijay Gupta here.
• Download the listener guide here.

Follow Kat Armstrong:

Instagram: @katarmstrong1
Website: katarmstrong.com
Bible Studies: The Storyline Project

“Holy Curiosity with Kat Armstrong” is a production of The Center for Women in Leadership.

Producer: Taylor Standridge
Show Artwork: Amy Jones

Rev. Dr. Charlie Dates and Dr. Michelle Knight join Holy Curiosity to share their pastoral and scholarly insights into the biblical figure of Moses and his leadership role as a judge. From his early years in Egypt to his 40-year preparation in what Charlie describes as the "seminary of solitude," Moses emerges as a heroic yet relatable figure whose journey epitomizes divine intervention and the struggle for justice. Charlie's reflections on the Exodus story, particularly the parting of the Red Sea, provide a vivid example of God's power and Moses's role as a deliverer, urging us to consider how we too might be agents of change in our environments. Dr. Michelle Knight shares the historical and spiritual role of judges in the Bible, exploring how these pivotal figures shaped the governance and moral compass of ancient Israelite society. From Moses, who first assumed the judgeship by divine assignment, to the rest of the judges in Scripture, this discussion unpacks the significance of the judgeship role and what the Bible teaches us about leaders worth following.

Quick Links:

• Learn more about Dr. Michelle Knight here and be sure to pre-order her book on Deborah here.
• Learn more about Rev. Dr. Charlie Dates here.
• Download the listener guide here.

Follow Kat Armstrong:

Instagram: @katarmstrong1
Website: katarmstrong.com
Bible Studies: The Storyline Project

“Holy Curiosity with Kat Armstrong” is a production of The Center for Women in Leadership.

Producer: Taylor Standridge
Show Artwork: Amy Jones

In Season 2 of Holy Curiosity, we're going to uncover the powerful connection between Moses and Deborah through their shared leadership role: delivering judge. Most Bible readers overlook or minimize Deborah’s role in the nation of ancient Israel. This is not only a slight to Deborah but also to the great leader Moses. You see, Moses shared Deborah’s passion for her people, her devotion to righteousness and justice, and her commitment to God’s Word. Both leaders also had the fortitude to head into battle with confidence in God. Literarily speaking, Deborah was a second Moses, and both were leaders worth following.

Follow Kat Armstrong:

Instagram: @katarmstrong1
Website: katarmstrong.com
Bible Studies: The Storyline Project

"Holy Curiosity with Kat Armstrong” is a production of The Center for Women in Leadership.

Producer: Taylor Standridge
Show Artwork: Amy Jones

Episode content warning: This episode contains content related to sexual assault.

Reverend Doctor Nicole Massie Martin joins Holy Curiosity to interview Kat Armstrong and ask: What does the Bible have to say about abuse toward women? You'll hear about the importance of studying challenging scriptures on trauma and abuse head-on, rather than avoiding them, because engaging with these stories can lead to healing and a more honest faith journey. Whether you’re curious about how the Bible addresses trauma or how to foster a holy curiosity in your own spiritual life, this episode will challenge and inspire you to lean into the complexities of faith with truth and grace. 

Quick Links:

• Learn more about Rev. Dr. Martin here or here.
• Download the listener guide here.

Follow Kat Armstrong:

Instagram: @katarmstrong1
Website: katarmstrong.com
Bible Studies: The Storyline Project

“Holy Curiosity with Kat Armstrong” is a production of The Center for Women in Leadership.

Producer: Taylor Standridge
Show Artwork: Amy Jones

Dinah and the Samaritan Woman have been interpreted many different ways by founding church fathers and theologians, and we inherit those interpretations. Kat welcomes Biblical scholars Drs. Beth Allison Barr and Sandra Glahn to process the interpretations of these early theologians–known as the Patristic fathers, and reformation leaders. Dr. Sandra Glahn is a Professor of Media Arts and Worship at Dallas Theological Seminary and author of more than 20 books. Dr. Beth Allison Barr is an expert in Medieval History, and her book The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth was a bestseller and began a larger conversation in recent years about the role of women in scripture and the church.  Episode Content Warning: This episode contains content related to sexual assault.  QUICK LINKS: Give feedback, ask questions, and download a free learning guide on Kat’s website The In-Between Place by Kat Armstrong: Kat’s book about the Samaritan woman. Dr. Sandra Glahn: Vindicating the Vixens book Dr. Beth Allison Barr: The Making of Biblical Womanhood book Norfleete Day Virtual Museum of Women in Christianity Find Kat online: Instagram: @KatArmstrong1 Website: Katarmstrong.com The Storyline Project: thestorylineproject.com Production Credits: Executive Producers: Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Senior Producer: Matt Stevens  Producer: Leslie Thompson Associate Producer: McKenzie Hill Audio Editing: Kevin Morris Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kat is joined by Cheryl Luke, a pastor and communicator, for a vulnerable conversation about how Bible readers need to process the storyline of Shechem. Together, Kat and Cherl expose the complexities of trauma, abuse, and highlight the transformative power of faith. The episode offers a raw conversation, urging listeners to reflect on their own experiences and find hope in the midst of pain. Episode Content Warning: This episode contains content related to sexual assault.  Quick Links Give feedback, ask questions, and download a free learning guide on Kat’s website The In-Between Place by Kat Armstrong: Kat’s book about Shechem and how Jesus can change our stories. Cheryl Luke: https://cherylluke.com/ Find Kat online: Instagram: @KatArmstrong1 Website: Katarmstrong.com The Storyline Project: www.thestorylineproject.com Episode Highlights:  Cheryl opens up about her own life experiences, revealing the complexities of growing up in a broken home and surviving abuse.  Kat and Cherly discuss the impact of silence surrounding rape, drawing parallels between Dinah's story and Cheryl's own journey. They explore the theme of naming and its significance, emphasizing the power of sharing stories to initiate healing. Cheryl's vulnerability in discussing her past experiences brings a unique depth to the conversation, creating a space for empathy and understanding. Cheryl underlines the redemptive role of Jesus, portraying him as the ultimate source of healing and hope in the midst of brokenness.  The episode concludes with a pastoral note, offering guidance to those processing trauma. She offers a poignant reminder: every story matters. And sharing one's experiences can have a ripple effect of healing and freedom. Holy Curiosity is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producers: Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Producer: Leslie Thompson Associate Producer: McKenzie Hill Audio Editing: Kevin Morris Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Holy Curiosity welcomes Rev. Dr. Jackie Roese again, as well as scholar Dr. Lynn Cohick as they provide a fresh perspective on a disciple of Jesus that’s often misunderstood. Jackie emphasizes the Samaritan woman’s significance as a marginalized figure, facing societal judgment due to her ethnicity, gender, and personal history and Dr. Cohick challenges the misconceptions surrounding the woman, debunking the idea that she was a promiscuous sinner and instead suggesting possibilities such as multiple tragic losses in marriage or societal rejection. The conversation underscores the woman's theological depth, highlighting her role as the first evangelist who effectively brings the gospel to her town.  Episode Content Warning: This episode contains content related to sexual assault.  Quick Links: Give feedback, ask questions, and download a free learning guide on Kat’s website The In-Between Place by Kat Armstrong: Kat’s book about Shechem and how Jesus can change our stories. Dr. Rev. Jackie Roese’s The Marcella Project: themarcellaproject.com/ Dr. Lynn Cohick: www.lynncohick.com/ Vindicating the Vixens book Dr. Norfleete Day Virtual Museum of Women in Christianity Find Kat online: Instagram: @KatArmstrong1 Website: Katarmstrong.com The Storyline Project: thestorylineproject.com Episode Highlights Part 1: Rev. Dr. Jackie Roese Jackie talks about her visit to Samaria and the significance of Jacob's well in the story and describes the animosity between Jews and Samaritans and the cultural context of the patriarchal society in which the woman lived. Jackie reinterprets the story, suggesting that Jesus recognized the woman's past suffering, abandonment, and societal rejection and explores how the Samaritan woman's story is relevant to both men and women, addressing power structures and vulnerability in society. Part 2: Dr. Lynn Cohick Dr. Cohick addresses the misconception of the Samaritan woman being a prostitute and challenges assumptions about her life. She discusses the societal context of first-century Palestine and the limited legal standing of women. Dr. Cohick emphasizes the woman's theological interest and her role in bringing the gospel message to her town and the need to appreciate the Samaritan woman as a great disciple of Jesus. Holy Curiosity is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producers: Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Producer: Leslie Thompson Associate Producer: McKenzie Hill Audio Editing: Kevin Morris Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kat welcomes Dr. Tim Mackie to trace Shechem, from Genesis to John. Dr. Mackie–one of the creators of The Bible Project– traces Shechem's narrative thread, revealing places in the Bible carry profound meaning for ancient and modern Bible readers. Together, Kat and Tim uncover God's storytelling genius, showcasing Shechem as a location repurposed by many Biblical authors for literary impact. Episode Content Warning: This episode contains content related to sexual assault.  QUICK LINKS: Give feedback, ask questions, and download a free learning guide on Kat’s website The In-Between Place by Kat Armstrong: Kat’s book about Shechem and how Jesus can change our stories. Mountains Bible study by Kat Armstrong Valleys Bible study by Kat Armstrong The Bible Project: https://bibleproject.com/ Find Kat online: Instagram: @KatArmstrong1 Website: Katarmstrong.com The Storyline Project: www.thestorylineproject.com Episode Highlights: The discussion kicks off with Genesis 12, where Abram and Sarah first encounter Shechem. Driven by God's promise, Abram builds an altar at the Oak of Moreh, marking Shechem as a place of divine encounter and blessing. However, the narrative takes an unexpected turn in Genesis 34, exposing Shechem's darker side—a crime scene that contrasts starkly with its initial promise. Kat and Dr. Mackie highlight the biblical pattern of children intensifying the failures of their parents. Shechem becomes a recurring backdrop for betrayal and tragedy, as seen in Genesis 37 with Jacob's sons. The contrast between Jacob's reaction to Dinah's violation and Joseph's presumed death raises crucial questions about silence and societal values. The discussion touches on cultural practices and patriarchal dynamics, shedding light on the biblical authors' intention to expose broken aspects of humanity. Dr. Mackie emphasizes the importance of recognizing the discomfort these narratives evoke and the biblical authors' deliberate attempts to challenge societal norms. Dr. Mackie unveils additional references to Shechem in Deuteronomy and Joshua, highlighting its symbolic significance in Israel's covenant journey.  ​​The conversation also touches on the multi-generational aspect of Shechem, illustrating how choices made over generations contribute to the challenges faced by the people of Shechem. It’s a place of both divine promise and human brokeness. Kat and Tim express the profound significance of Jesus choosing to engage with the Samaritan woman at the well with an intentional visit to Shechem.  Production Credits: Executive Producers: Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Producer: Leslie Thompson Associate Producer: McKenzie Hill Audio Editing: Kevin Morris Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices