What does meaningful children’s ministry inclusion really look like for neurodivergent children and their families?

In this episode, I sit down with children’s ministry leader and inclusion advocate Kim Botto for a conversation about what it looks like to build church spaces where every child is welcomed, understood, and given space to thrive.

We explore practical and pastoral approaches to neurodivergent children in church, and how we can shape environments that make room for different ways of engaging, communicating, and experiencing faith. I found myself seeing familiar situations in a new way as we talked.

This conversation is especially for children’s ministry leaders, volunteers, pastors, and parents who are passionate about inclusion in children’s ministry and want to grow in confidence, compassion, and practical wisdom.

In this episode, we explore:

•  What belonging can look like for neurodivergent children in children’s ministry 
•  How children’s behaviour can help us understand what they need 
•  Simple, practical shifts that make church more accessible and welcoming 
•  Why inclusion strengthens ministry for every child, not just a few 
•  How Kim Botto approaches discipleship, inclusion, and supporting families in church life 

What I loved about this conversation is how it opened up fresh perspective without adding pressure. Instead, it offered encouragement and clarity around what’s already possible when we start seeing children through a different lens.

If you’re shaping church ministry for children and families, I think this episode will leave you encouraged, grounded, and full of hope.

You can subscribe to Hope Cake for more conversations that explore children’s ministry with honesty, warmth, and practical hope for what’s possible next.

Check out Kim's book Boundless Hope For Every Child here

Support the show

Never miss an episode - follow Hope Cake on socials @hopecakepod

Ever feel like you're not doing enough to help your children grow in faith?

Maybe family devotions don't happen as often as you'd like. Maybe life feels too busy, too messy, or too exhausting. Maybe you're carrying a quiet sense of guilt that everyone else seems to have it figured out.

In this episode, I'm joined by Lucy Rycroft from The Hope-Filled Family to talk about what discipleship really looks like in everyday family life.

We explore why faith formation is about so much more than ticking spiritual boxes, how God meets us in ordinary moments, and why the pressure many Christian parents feel may be pointing them in the wrong direction.

Along the way, Lucy shares honest stories from her own family, practical wisdom for nurturing faith at home, and a refreshing reminder that God is at work even when our efforts feel small.

If you've ever wondered whether you're getting it right, this conversation is for you.

Lucy's new book, What Would Jesus Do? 52 Devotions For Tweens is available here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Would-Family-Devotional-Preteens-Parents/dp/B0G248CJJR/

Support the show

Never miss an episode - follow Hope Cake on socials @hopecakepod

Burnout in kids ministry is real. Many leaders only last a few years before the weight of it all becomes too much. So how do you stay in ministry for the long haul without running on empty?

In this final episode of Building Thriving Kids Ministry, Jo Hobbis sits down with Hannah Aske from TenFour Ministries to talk honestly about burnout, calling, and what it really takes to keep going in children’s ministry.

Hannah shares openly about the seasons when she felt like quitting (including a time when she was so exhausted she was crying most weeks). But she also shares the lessons God has taught her along the way about rest, community, and remembering why you started in the first place.

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed, stretched too thin, or wondered how long you can keep doing this work, this conversation will help you breathe again.

In this episode you’ll discover:

• Why knowing your God-given “why” is essential for staying in kids ministry
• The difference between physical rest and spiritual rest (and why both matter)
• How trying to carry everything yourself leads to burnout
• Why planned retreat days and time with God aren’t luxuries, they’re essential
• How mentors, friends, and accountability can sustain you in ministry
• The freeing truth that God cares more about your heart than your productivity

Hannah also shares the powerful reminder that we can’t pour into children and families if we’re running on empty ourselves.

Before we lead others, we need to be filled.

If you’re a kids ministry leader who wants to build something that lasts, this episode is for you.

Support the show

Never miss an episode - follow Hope Cake on socials @hopecakepod

What does it take to help the next generation discover the hope of Jesus?

Hope Cake is a podcast for Jesus-followers with kids in their lives — parents, children’s ministry leaders, volunteers, and anyone who cares about faith in the next generation.

Hosted by Jo Hobbis, mum and volunteer kids’ ministry leader, the podcast brings you warm, honest conversations with leading voices in children’s ministry. Together we explore how to help children know Jesus, grow in faith, and experience the hope of the gospel.

Pull up a chair — you’re invited.

Follow Hope Cake so you don’t miss upcoming conversations, because just like cake, hope is always better when it’s shared.

Support the show

Never miss an episode - follow Hope Cake on socials @hopecakepod

Children’s ministry can be joyful, creative, and deeply meaningful… but it can also be exhausting.

In this honest conversation, Jo Hobbis sits down with Hannah Aske from TenFour Ministries to talk about the challenges many kids ministry leaders face but don’t always say out loud.

Why do so many children’s pastors burn out after just a few years? Why can ministry feel harder than people expect? And how do you keep your joy when the pressure, expectations, and volunteer shortages start piling up?

Jo and Hannah unpack the hidden realities of kids ministry — from the blurred lines between calling and job, to the struggle of measuring spiritual impact, to the constant challenge of recruiting and supporting volunteers.

Along the way, you’ll discover practical strategies, surprising mindset shifts, and encouragement for anyone who has ever felt overwhelmed in ministry.

In this episode you’ll discover:

•  Why many kids ministry leaders burn out after just a few years 
•  The hidden pressures that make children’s ministry harder than it looks 
•  Why spiritual growth in kids is so hard to measure (and why that’s okay) 
•  Practical ways to recruit and encourage volunteers 
•  A mindset shift that helps leaders rediscover joy in their calling

If you’ve ever wondered "Am I the only one finding this hard?” this episode will remind you that you’re not alone and help you rediscover the joy of your calling.

You’ll come away feeling seen, encouraged, and better equipped to lead kids and families with hope.

Support the show

Never miss an episode - follow Hope Cake on socials @hopecakepod

Many churches long to see children and families come to faith — but what happens when they’re simply not walking through the doors on Sunday?

In this episode, Jo Hobbis talks with Hannah Aske from TenFour Ministries about why outreach to children and families matters more than ever — and why it doesn’t have to be complicated, expensive, or intimidating.

Hannah shares powerful stories from working with children in schools and communities, revealing the deep need many children carry today — from anxiety to isolation — and why the church must be present where they are.

Together they explore:

•  Why outreach is central to the Great Commission 
•  The fears that often hold churches back from starting 
•  How simple midweek kids’ clubs can reach families in your community 
•  Why confidence (in ourselves and in God) is often the biggest barrier 
•  How to create pathways from community activities to the gospel 

Hannah also shares practical insights from launching outreach ministries, working with schools, and helping churches discover what they can do — even with limited people, budget, or time.

If you're a church leader, children's worker, or volunteer wondering how to connect with families beyond Sunday, this conversation will inspire you to take the first step.

Because reaching the next generation often begins with a simple decision:

Go where they are.

Support the show

Never miss an episode - follow Hope Cake on socials @hopecakepod

What if the biggest barrier to thriving kids ministry… is church culture?

In this episode of Building Thriving Kids Ministry, Jo Hobbis continues the conversation with Hannah Aske, founder of TenFour Ministries, about why the Church may need to rethink how it sees children.

Many churches say children matter. But do our priorities, structures, and attitudes actually reflect that?

Hannah shares what she’s learned from working with churches across the UK—why kids ministry is often undervalued, the cultural shifts needed for it to thrive, and how leaders can begin creating churches where children are genuinely welcomed, discipled, and celebrated.

If you care about the future of the Church, this conversation might challenge the way you think about children’s ministry.

Because thriving kids ministry isn’t just about better programmes.

It’s about a culture that believes children truly belong.

Support the show

Never miss an episode - follow Hope Cake on socials @hopecakepod

What if the future of the Church depends on how we see children today?

In this first episode of Building Thriving Kids Ministry, Jo Hobbis sits down with Hannah Aske, founder of TenFour Ministries, to talk about a challenge many churches are quietly facing: where have all the children gone—and what can we do about it?

Hannah shares the story behind TenFour Ministries and the heart that led her to launch a movement focused on outreach children’s ministry. From seeing the realities facing children in schools and communities, to recognising the gap in how churches prioritise kids, she asks a bold question: What if children’s ministry isn’t optional—but essential to the mission of the Church?

You’ll hear:

•  Why outreach to children is often missing from church strategy 
•  The surprising story of how Hannah started leading kids ministry at just 16 
•  How churches can move beyond “just running a programme” 
•  Why defining your “win” changes everything about how you lead 
•  The powerful role young leaders can play in building a thriving ministry 

If you’ve ever felt the weight of leading children’s ministry—or wondered how churches can reach the next generation more effectively—this conversation will challenge and encourage you.

Because building a thriving kids ministry doesn’t happen by accident.

Support the show

Never miss an episode - follow Hope Cake on socials @hopecakepod

What does it look like to be a family on mission? In this inspiring conversation, Jo Hobbis gets to chat with Alan Charter from the Global Children's Forum. They unpack the idea of every family being "salt and light" in their community, the significant role children play in that, and the practicalities of working it out in real, messy, everyday life. If you're a parent who's wondering if you've missed your chance for mission, or a minister who wants to empower families to do more for the Kingdom, this conversation is for you.

https://gcf.community/
https://familiesonmission.org/

Support the show

Never miss an episode - follow Hope Cake on socials @hopecakepod

Jo Hobbis chats with Meredith Anne Miller about her new book 'Wonder', which serves as a guide for adults to explore the Bible with children. They discuss the unique approach of the book, the selection of stories included, and the importance of making biblical narratives accessible to kids. Meredith shares insights on teaching children about faith, the significance of wonder in conversations, and the complexities of understanding the Old Testament. The discussion also touches on the exclusion of certain stories, like Noah's Ark, and the overall goal of fostering a deeper connection with scripture for both kids and parents.

Support the show

Never miss an episode - follow Hope Cake on socials @hopecakepod