In this episode of Hot Gossip, we’re joined by Sara Deseran, longtime food writer, Editor at The San Francisco Standard, and former restaurateur behind the beloved Tacolicious group, for a conversation that sits at the tender intersection of food, storytelling, and staying power.

We explore what it means to devote yourself to an industry that is as beautiful as it is brutal, and the tension between the romanticism of restaurants and the stark realities behind the scenes. Sara shares what she’s learned from decades inside both the media and hospitality worlds, and why, despite everything, she’s still here.

From the power of a well-set dining room to the weight of being a cultural gatekeeper, this episode is about truth-telling in an industry that often resists it. We talk about the stories that don’t get told, the damage of “best of” lists, and the quieter, more lasting kind of influence that happens when a space, or a voice, makes you feel at home.

Timestamps

00:00 – Why we make this show: on devotion, generosity, and obsession

03:15 – Café Jacqueline: a single soufflé, a whole philosophy

08:10 – How media has evolved, and what it’s costing us

14:25 – Storytelling in the age of iPhones, algorithms, and burnout1

9:05 – Sara’s journey: from magazine mastheads to taco counters

25:50 – The Bon Appétit “mea culpa” and what writing from the inside looks like

32:30 – What we lose when we forget that restaurants are human endeavors

38:05 – Food writing vs. food reality: nuance, empathy, and the missing middle

46:00 – Can love and livelihood co-exist in hospitality?

51:30 – The danger of ranking joy: a critique of “Top 100” lists

59:45 – Substack, saturation, and writing when no one’s watching

1:06:30 – What a restaurant that feels like home actually gives us

1:09:00 – Why hospitality might be the last place left for real human connection

Links & Mentions

Connect with Sara Deseran

Website:  https://www.saradeseran.com/Editor: sfstandard.com 

Mea culpa, Bon Appétit: Dear Restaurant Owners

Connect with ROY Hospitality

Website: https://www.thisisroy.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hospitablyroy/

Connect with Hannah Collins Tate

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannah-collins-tate-b64981103/Hannah’s Substack: hannahcollinstate.substack.com

Connect with Jacob Cross

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-cross-61028012/

Justin Cogley (two-Michelin-starred chef of Aubergine at L'Auberge Carmel) reveals how an unconventional journey from competitive figure skating to Disney on Ice to the highest echelons of fine dining shaped his revolutionary approach to leadership and hospitality.

Justin opens up about his early obsession with food despite growing up on fast food, his formative years traveling Asia with Disney on Ice (where he'd skip buying designer clothes to dine at Michelin-starred restaurants), and his intense apprenticeship at Charlie Trotter's in Chicago. But what makes this conversation remarkable is Justin's candid reflection on rejecting the toxic "screaming kitchen" culture he experienced and instead building a kitchen rooted in kindness, curiosity, and genuine care for his team.

We explore Justin's philosophy of "all-in mastery" whether it's ultra-marathon running, champagne expertise, or cooking, and how his relationship with pain and endurance informs everything he creates. He shares the pivotal moments that shaped his competitive drive, from teachers who told him he'd never be a doctor to running 100-mile races fueled by the thought of breakfast buffets.

Justin also discusses the practical realities of running a two-Michelin-star restaurant in a small coastal town, his commitment to taking his entire team on annual international trips, his nuanced views on local versus sustainable sourcing, and why he believes Michelin stars should be a reflection of mastery rather than a source of ego or kitchen tyranny.

The conversation closes with a look toward Justin's new casual concept: a champagne and oyster-focused restaurant that will bring the same level of product quality and intentionality to a more accessible format, proving that "casual" doesn't mean compromising on excellence.

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast

00:40 Justin Cogley's Unique Leadership Style

01:49 The Evolution of Fine Dining

03:16 Justin's Personal Journey and Philosophy

05:11 From Ice Skating to Culinary Arts

10:51 The Culinary School and Early Career

18:45 Travel and Culinary Inspiration

26:14 The Drive for Excellence

31:18 Endurance and Ultra Marathon Running

37:20 Traveling and Power Save Mode

37:55 Passion for Champagne

42:18 Leadership and Restaurant Culture

46:09 Challenges in the Restaurant Industry

53:15 Sourcing and Sustainability

01:01:08 Michelin Stars and Future Goals

01:05:16 Casual Dining Project

01:10:05 Rapid Fire Questions

Follow Hannah & Jacob and Justin:

Connect with Hannah & Jacob: 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hospitablyroy/

Website: https://www.thisisroy.com/

Connect with Justin: 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-cogley-32a926123/

Website: https://www.chefjustincogley.com/

Jen Pelka has built her career around one principle: always work with the best. From staging at Danielle restaurant with a single Crate & Barrel knife to founding The Riddler champagne bars and creating Une Femme wines, her trajectory reflects audacious vision paired with operational discipline.

In this conversation, Jen discusses the period when COVID forced her to close The Riddler, her house burned down in wildfires, and she lost her father, and how she transformed that compounding loss into strategic fuel for building what she believes will be the best canned wine company in America. She shares her "first, best, or only" positioning framework, the mechanics of setting SMART goals that enable bold asks, and why she's determined to prove that a woman-led wine brand can achieve a banner-level exit.

This episode offers tactical insights on leadership, the operational value of strategic clarity, and why resilience functions as a decision rather than a disposition.

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 02:30 - Introduction and episode preview

02:30 - 08:45 - Background: Philosophy major to hospitality entrepreneur

08:45 - 19:45 - The Danielle kitchen story

19:45 - 25:15 - Philosophy of working with the best

25:15 - 38:45 - The dark period: COVID, fire, and loss

38:45 - 42:00 - Entrepreneurship as resilience

42:00 - 47:30 - Wine industry challenges and scaling

47:30 - 53:30 - "First, best, or only" philosophy

53:30 - 58:30 - Leadership and team building

58:30 - 01:07:00 - Difficult leadership decisions

01:07:00 - 01:14:00 - Evolution of women-focused branding

01:14:00 - 01:16:30 - Future visions

01:16:30 - 01:19:00 - Co-founding with family

01:19:00 - 01:19:55 - Rapid fire questions

01:19:55 - 01:20:00 - Contact information and wrap-up

Follow Hannah, Jacob & Jen:

Connect with Hannah & Jacob: 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hospitablyroy/

Website: https://www.thisisroy.com/

Connect with Jen: 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferpelka/

Website: https://unefemmewines.com/

Josh Harris has maintained Trick Dog's position among the world's top bars for over a decade through a simple principle: never compromise what makes it essential. When COVID threatened to force every hospitality concept into survival mode, Josh made a different choice entirely.

This conversation examines the intentionality behind Trick Dog's biannual reinvention, the spatial and operational missteps that led to Bon Voyage's closure, and how Josh approaches leadership through outcome rather than process. We discuss his philosophy that hospitality exists at the intersection of form and concept, and how this thinking shapes his approach to Quik Dog at Mission Rock.

Josh's perspective on building authentic concepts while maintaining commercial viability offers insight into the discipline required to create lasting hospitality experiences. His work demonstrates how personal values can become business strategy when applied with consistency and care.

[00:00:00] - Opening: Multi-hyphenate hospitality leader

[00:11:00] - Trick Dog's menu evolution as business strategy

[00:14:00] - The intersection of form and concept in design

[00:18:00] - From law school to hospitality leadership

[00:24:00] - Building confidence behind the bar

[00:41:00] - Scaling success: what makes Trick Dog endure

[00:57:00] - Bon Voyage: lessons in space, location, and leadership

[01:13:00] - Management philosophy: trial by fire and ownership mindset

[01:20:00] - Community impact: raising $900K through hospitality

[01:27:00] - COVID decision: protecting brand integrity over revenue

[01:33:00] - Quik Dog concept development and design thinking

[01:40:00] - Mission Rock partnership and neighborhood building

[01:51:00] - Rapid fire: hospitality wisdom

Follow Josh:

Instagram: @josh_the_bonvivants@trickdogbar@quik_dog

Connect with ROY:

Instagram: @hospitablyroy

Website: https://www.thisisroy.com/

Connect with Hannah:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannah-collins-tate-b64981103/

Instagram: @hannah.collins.tate

Connect with Jacob:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-cross-61028012/

Hot Gossip. is a storytelling-driven podcast exploring the intersection of hospitality, design, and human connection. Hosted by Hannah Collins Tate, founder of ROY Hospitality Design Group, and Jacob Cross, creative strategist and media storyteller, this show uncovers the intentionality behind the world’s most compelling hospitality spaces.

Through raw, emotional, and inspiring conversations with innovators, designers, restaurateurs, and thought leaders, Hot Gossip. dives deep into the stories behind the spaces that shape our lives. From the psychology of design to the future of branding and guest experience, we uncover the magic that makes people feel at home—wherever they are.