Hotel Moment

In this episode of Hotel Moment, Dylan Cole, Managing Director, EMEA, Revinate, sits down with Lily Wecker, CEO of Aethos, to explore how a next-generation hospitality brand is redefining luxury around connection rather than exclusivity. With a career spanning management consulting, luxury hospitality, and leadership at Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group, Lily brings a distinctly personal lens to how Aethos designs experiences, markets its brand, and builds culture.


Tune in as they discuss:

• 
  Redefining luxury: Why Lily believes the world has shifted from seeking material ownership to seeking internal validation, and why Aethos treats meaningful connection with yourself and others as the new luxury standard
• A personal turning point: How a health scare and a subsequent period of therapy and mindfulness led Lily to rebuild her approach to hospitality around introspection and belonging rather than "brick and mortar"
• Emotion-first marketing: Why Aethos's campaigns are built around the feeling they want to evoke first, with rooms and food treated as secondary
• High emotional density: Why Aethos deliberately designs open lobbies, bars, and shared spaces to create serendipitous connection, in contrast to the low-density, privacy-driven model many luxury brands are pursuing
• A younger guest base: Why over half of Aethos's guests and members are under forty, and how "modern loneliness" shapes what that generation is looking for in travel
• Human-to-human culture: Why Aethos favors a peer-to-peer relationship between employees, members, and guests over traditional hierarchy
• The next chapter for Aethos: The recent opening of Mitsu, a standalone restaurant in London blending East London and East Tokyo influences
  
  

Lily also shares what she hopes guests feel when they leave an Aethos property, and her vision for making experiential hospitality accessible to more than just a niche luxury audience.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review it on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Instructions on how to do this are here.

Connect with Lily Wecker here:

• LinkedIn
• Aethos

Connect with Karen Stephens here:

• LinkedIn
• Revinate

Follow the podcast here:

• LinkedIn

Episode Highlights
[06:47] Turning a personal low point into purpose - Lily opens up about a health scare that pushed her into a new relationship with mindfulness. "I would say it's a realization that you can do more to prevent somebody else falling off the cliff." She reflects on watching people in the industry burn out and never recover, and how that experience reshaped her approach to building hospitality products around belonging rather than just brick and mortar.


[09:01] The new definition of luxury - Lily traces how the meaning of luxury has changed over her career and across the industry. "A lot of consumers really are now seeking experiences as real luxury, are seeing luxury as something much more internal validation." She argues that Aethos exists to deliver that shift: genuine connection with yourself and others, not ownership of things other people can't have.


[13:02] Marketing the feeling, not the room - Lily explains why Aethos's marketing rarely leads with its physical spaces. "We very much focus on the emotions that we want to evoke first, then the products that we're trying to sell." Even when a room or a meal appears in a campaign, she says, it's the feeling behind it that's meant to carry the story.


[14:32] Designing for serendipity, not seclusion - While many luxury brands are moving toward lower-density, more private developments, Lily explains why Aethos is doing the opposite. "We actively design our projects to be high density, and we call it high emotional density, to create spaces that are close to each other and give you an opportunity for serendipity." She points to the open lobby and bar layout at Aethos Milan as a direct example of this philosophy in action.


[19:51] What guests should take home - Asked what single feeling she hopes guests leave with, Lily doesn't hesitate. "It's a sense of belonging, a feeling of being seen in a deep way." It's a fitting close to a conversation built around connection over exclusivity.



Chapters:
00:00 - Intro 
02:15 - Aethos' new London opening
05:52 - The personal journey that redefined Lily's view of hospitality 
09:01 - Redefining luxury: from material gain to internal validation 
13:02 - Marketing built on emotion, not amenities 
14:32 - Designing for connection: high density vs. low density spaces 
17:22 - The future of hospitality and the feeling guests should take home




If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review it on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Instructions on how to do this are here and follow us on LinkedIn so you never miss a moment! 
Hotel Moment Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so


Previous guests include: Shannon Knapp, CEO of Leading Hotels of the World (LHW), Patrick Norton of Brittain Resorts & Hotels, Shawn Jereb of Montage International, Carlo Del Mistro, Chief Digital Officer of Ennismore, Jason Pirock of Springboard Hospitality, and many more.


Are you a hospitality industry leader with insights to share? We're always looking for innovative voices to join our conversation about the future of hospitality technology.

If you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming episode of Hotel Moment, we'd love to hear from you! Our podcast reaches thousands of hospitality professionals worldwide, and we're particularly interested in perspectives on:

• Innovation in hospitality technology
• Guest experience transformation
• Revenue optimization strategies
• Emerging industry trends

Express your interest in being a guest →
Check out the three most downloaded episodes:

• Revinate’s new CEO — on a mission to empower hoteliers with data-driven technology | with Bryson Koehler 
• Guests define what luxury means today | with Shannon Knapp
• Your commercial strategy as an evolution and not a revolution | with Jennifer Hill
  
  

In this recast episode of Hotel Moment, Karen Stephens sits down with Bashar Wali, founder and CEO of Practice Hospitality and This Assembly. With over three decades of experience in the hospitality industry, Bashar brings a refreshing perspective on creating immersive and human-centered hotel experiences.


Tune in as they discuss:

• Why passion is the most underrated quality in hospitality and how looking at human behavior, rather than trends, creates lasting impact
• How hotels can balance technological innovation with the crucial element of human connection
• The difference between "memorable" and "forgettable" hotels, and why this distinction matters more than traditional ratings
• Why loyalty programs often miss the mark, with Bashar declaring "Points are not loyalty. Points are bribery!"
• How hotels can learn from retail's commitment to removing friction from the customer journey
• The concept of ultra-personalization as the future of luxury in hospitality
  
  

Bashar also shares his perspectives on hotel marketing in the digital age, the misuse of "Instagrammable moments," and why hoteliers need to think of themselves as retailers with perishable inventory. His candid insights challenge industry norms while offering practical advice for hoteliers seeking to create meaningful connections with their guests.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review it on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Instructions on how to do this are here.


Connect with Bashar Wali here:

• LinkedIn
• Practice Hospitality
• This Assembly

Connect with Karen here:

• LinkedIn
• Revinate

Follow the podcast here:

• LinkedIn

Episode Highlights:
[10:51] The importance of human connection - Bashar emphasizes that without human connection, hotels become mere commodities. "If I don't connect with you, you're just a place. I walk in, I walk out, I get what I need, I move on." He argues that while technology can streamline processes, the hospitality industry must not lose the human touch that makes experiences memorable. Hotels need to balance efficiency with creating opportunities for meaningful interactions that make guests feel they belong, rather than just providing shelter.


[12:17] The misconception of loyalty programs - In one of the most candid moments of the episode, Bashar declares, "Points are not loyalty. Points are bribery!" He challenges the industry's reliance on points-based loyalty programs, suggesting that true loyalty comes from making guests feel seen and understood. Using examples from his own experiences, he illustrates how personalization and anticipating guest preferences create genuine loyalty that outlasts any points-based incentive system.


[07:54] Technology's role in removing friction - Bashar views technology's purpose in hospitality as removing friction from the guest experience. "Technology's job is to remove the friction," he states, pointing to how airlines have streamlined processes while still maintaining human interaction during flights. He criticizes the hotel industry for being "dinosaurs" when it comes to technology, particularly in booking processes, and advocates for using technology to eliminate administrative tasks so staff can focus on meaningful guest interactions.


Chapters:
00:00 - Intro02:29 - The role of passion in hospitality and the pitfall of trend-chasing05:43 - The difference between memorable and forgettable hotels07:54 - Balancing technology and human connection in hospitality10:51 - Why tribal connection matters in guest experience12:17 - Ultra-personalization as the future of luxury15:53 - The role of emotional intelligence in service18:19 - Beyond points: Creating true guest loyalty19:40 - Redefining CRM in hospitality21:21 - Authentic content vs. manufactured "Instagrammable moments"26:18 - Digital marketing strategy for the modern hotel29:29 - Brand building as a long-term investment30:37 - Advice for operators: Partnership over service provision




If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review it on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Instructions on how to do this are here and follow us on LinkedIn so you never miss a moment! 
Hotel Moment Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so


Previous guests include: Shannon Knapp, CEO of Leading Hotels of the World (LHW), Patrick Norton of Brittain Resorts & Hotels, Shawn Jereb of Montage International, Carlo Del Mistro, Chief Digital Officer of Ennismore, Jason Pirock of Springboard Hospitality, and many more.


Are you a hospitality industry leader with insights to share? We're always looking for innovative voices to join our conversation about the future of hospitality technology.

If you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming episode of Hotel Moment, we'd love to hear from you! Our podcast reaches thousands of hospitality professionals worldwide, and we're particularly interested in perspectives on:

• Innovation in hospitality technology
• Guest experience transformation
• Revenue optimization strategies
• Emerging industry trends

Express your interest in being a guest →
Check out the three most downloaded episodes:

• Revinate’s new CEO — on a mission to empower hoteliers with data-driven technology | with Bryson Koehler 
• Guests define what luxury means today | with Shannon Knapp
• Your commercial strategy as an evolution and not a revolution | with Jennifer Hill
  
  

In this episode of Hotel Moment, Karen Stephens, CMO of Revinate, sits down with Lydia Bates, Director of Sales and Marketing at Dream Inn Santa Cruz — Santa Cruz's only exclusive beachfront hotel, with 165 ocean-view rooms, a mid-century modern identity, and generations of guests who have been returning since the 1960s. Lydia shares how Dream Inn has built a direct booking strategy rooted not in automation, but in genuine human connection, and offers practical lessons for any independent hotel trying to compete for guest loyalty in a digital landscape.


What you'll learn:


● Storytelling over transaction: Why independent and lifestyle hotels that frame their communications as experience-led storytelling, rather than booking triggers, build stronger emotional resonance and more durable guest loyalty.


● The case for on-site reservations: Why Dream Inn's decision to keep reservations staffed by people who live and work in Santa Cruz gives the property a pre-arrival guest experience advantage that online booking flows cannot replicate.


● Pre-arrival as an experience touchpoint: How the guest relationship begins at the first inquiry call, not at check-in, and how pre-arrival messaging keeps the narrative going between booking and arrival.


● OTA conversion done right: Why OTAs remain an important source of new guest acquisition for independent hotels, and how Dream Inn captures email addresses on property to bring those guests back through direct, higher-value offers.


● Defeating email overload through personalization: Why gathering specific guest preferences, from surfing to wine tasting to family activities, makes Dream Inn's email campaigns useful rather than ignored.


● Seasonality as a creative opportunity: How Dream Inn developed the "Ride Out the Storm" campaign to turn Santa Cruz's winter king tides and dramatic coastal weather into a reason to book a cozy, storm-watching escape.


● Cross-property loyalty through sister hotels: How Ensemble Hospitality's portfolio of California properties, including a wine country hotel in Carmel, allows Dream Inn to capture guest preferences that serve future stays beyond the Santa Cruz property.


● Starting in hospitality from a place of passion: Lydia's career pivot from engineering in the Bay Area to destination hospitality, and why being genuinely enthusiastic about where you live makes selling a destination feel effortless.


Karen and Lydia also discuss how the rise of digital competition has changed what it means to compete for vacation spending, and Lydia shares her advice for younger professionals looking to build a career in hospitality while living in the places they love. 


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review it on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Instructions on how to do this are here.

Connect with Lydia Bates here:

• LinkedIn
• Dream Inn, Santa Cruz

Connect with Karen Stephens here:

• LinkedIn
• Revinate

Follow the podcast here:

• LinkedIn

Episode Highlights
[03:23] Why human connection is the product for lifestyle hotels - Lydia draws a clear line between what automation can do and what sales leaders at lifestyle hotels actually need to do. "So much of the automation is transactional, and having it human-led is really shaping that person's vacation." She describes conversations that move well beyond room type and rate, asking guests about their trip's purpose, who they're traveling with, and what they're hoping to feel. It's a distinction that explains why Dream Inn still staffs an on-site reservations team.


[06:10] Pre-arrival as the first act of hospitality - Lydia reframes when the guest experience actually begins, placing it at the very first inquiry call rather than at the front desk. Dream Inn's on-site reservations team is made up of people who live and work in Santa Cruz, with firsthand knowledge of where to dine, where to hike, and what families do on the water. "It really starts there, and then it continues on after they book, with pre-arrival communication, letting folks know what is going to be happening while they're here as well."


[09:50] Ride Out the Storm: making bad weather a booking reason - In one of the episode's most memorable moments, Lydia describes a campaign built around something most beach properties would hide: winter storms. Dream Inn's "Ride Out the Storm" offer leaned into Santa Cruz's king tides, offering puzzle packages, digital reading, and storm-watching balcony views in 100% ocean-view rooms. It is a creative example of what destination-led storytelling looks like when a hotel decides to own its off-season rather than discount through it.


[14:29] How sister properties extend the guest relationship - Lydia explains how being part of Ensemble Hospitality turns what would otherwise be a single-property guest relationship into something broader. Dream Inn gathers preferences that go well beyond what the hotel itself offers, including wine tasting and inland experiences, then cross-promotes Ensemble's Carmel property, which sits in wine country. "If a guest really enjoys this experience here, they're going to have a similar experience at another hotel that is under the umbrella of Ensemble."


[16:22] Living where you love makes the sell effortless - Closing with advice for younger professionals entering hospitality, Lydia traces her own career shift from engineering in the Bay Area to resort and lifestyle hotel leadership. "I'm passionate about where I live. I think it makes it really easy to sell the hotel because I'm passionate about it." Her advice is direct: try it out, start anywhere from front desk to operations, and the growth opportunities will follow if the passion is genuine.


Chapters:
00:00 - Why storytelling defines lifestyle hospitality 
01:47 - Dream Inn Santa Cruz 
03:23 - Why human-led sales outperform automation 
06:10 - Pre-arrival engagement and the on-site reservations team 
09:50 - Seasonal strategy and the Ride Out the Storm campaign 
14:29 - Sister property partnerships through Ensemble Hospitality 
16:22 - Career advice: living where you love, selling what you love




If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review it on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Instructions on how to do this are here and follow us on LinkedIn so you never miss a moment! 
Hotel Moment Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so


Previous guests include: Shannon Knapp, CEO of Leading Hotels of the World (LHW), Patrick Norton of Brittain Resorts & Hotels, Shawn Jereb of Montage International, Carlo Del Mistro, Chief Digital Officer of Ennismore, Jason Pirock of Springboard Hospitality, and many more.


Are you a hospitality industry leader with insights to share? We're always looking for innovative voices to join our conversation about the future of hospitality technology.

If you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming episode of Hotel Moment, we'd love to hear from you! Our podcast reaches thousands of hospitality professionals worldwide, and we're particularly interested in perspectives on:

• Innovation in hospitality technology
• Guest experience transformation
• Revenue optimization strategies
• Emerging industry trends

Express your interest in being a guest →
Check out the three most downloaded episodes:

• Revinate’s new CEO — on a mission to empower hoteliers with data-driven technology | with Bryson Koehler 
• Guests define what luxury means today | with Shannon Knapp
• Your commercial strategy as an evolution and not a revolution | with Jennifer Hill
  
  

In this episode of Hotel Moment, Karen Stephens, CMO of Revinate, sits down with Chris Anderson, Professor at Cornell University's School of Hotel Administration, for a wide-ranging conversation on what the rise of AI really means for hotel revenue management, distribution, and commercial strategy. Drawing on more than two decades of research across airlines, hotels, and technology companies, Chris traces how the discipline has moved from simple yield optimization in the mid-90s to a fully competitive, data-intensive function, and explains why the AI transition ahead is qualitatively different from anything the industry has faced before.


What you'll learn:


● Surveillance pricing is almost certainly heading for regulation: Why offering different guests different prices for the same product, based solely on inferred willingness to pay, is likely to be illegal in the near future, and why that is probably good news for hospitality brands.


● Customization moves from price to offer set: How AI's ability to understand individual intent and context means hotels will increasingly compete not on a price tailored to you, but on a curated set of options tailored to what you are actually looking for.


● The AI consideration set is harder to earn than Google page one: Why the cost and power intensity of AI-generated responses mean that the offer set returned to any traveler will be far more finite than Google results, making AI discoverability more critical and more competitive than search ever was.


● Verified content and reputation data drive AI recommendations: Why AI models actively work to avoid hallucinations by relying on validated, third-party-confirmed content, and how that makes reputation management and structured content more valuable than ever.


● Integration beats best-of-breed in the AI era: Why the long hospitality tradition of picking the best point solution for every function is starting to produce diminishing returns, and why getting everything in the stack to talk to each other now matters more than optimizing any single component.


● Revenue management is expanding beyond numbers: How generative AI is finally giving revenue managers access to non-numerical data, including intent signals, reviews, and behavioral context, that has historically been outside the discipline's reach.


● You have to learn as you go: Why the test-and-learn approach is the only viable strategy for hotels trying to navigate AI, and why waiting for the model to settle before acting is a strategy that will leave properties behind.


● Agent-to-agent booking is closer than most hotels think: How platforms are already building out agent infrastructure, with examples like Priceline's Penny, and why hotels need to be ready for a world where an AI agent is the first to evaluate their property.


● Identity resolution is the prerequisite for everything else: Why data silos and multiple versions of the same guest identity across systems represent the most fundamental barrier to delivering on AI's personalization promise.


Karen and Chris also discuss the evolving economics of AI distribution, how hotels should think about OTAs as platforms move toward agent connectivity, and what still excites Chris, as a career researcher, about being in a field that refuses to stop changing.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review it on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Instructions on how to do this are here.

Connect with Chris Anderson here:

• LinkedIn
• Cornell University

Connect with Karen Stephens here:

• LinkedIn
• Revinate

Follow the podcast here:

• LinkedIn

Episode Highlights
[05:03] The pricing law that most hoteliers haven't heard of yet - Chris flags a regulatory shift that the industry is only beginning to track: legislation in New York targeting what he calls "surveillance pricing," where two travelers shopping for the same hotel at the same moment could be shown different prices based on inferred willingness to pay. "If Chris and Karen are looking for the same thing at the same point in time, and we might get different prices, that is probably in the very near future going to be against the law." For hotels that have been quietly dreaming about dynamic personalized pricing, the window is closing before it really opened.


[06:44] Why AI customizes the offer, not the price - In one of the episode's most forward-looking moments, Chris reframes what AI-powered personalization will actually look like for travelers. He describes a world where a chatbot that already knows who you are, and has heard you describe exactly what you want, doesn't show you a different price than someone else, but shows you a completely different, and much more curated, set of options. "I think we're going to see customization not in price, but in offer set." It's a subtle distinction with large implications for how hotels position and describe their properties.


[13:02] Reputation data is becoming the currency of AI search - Chris explains how AI's strong preference for verified, validated content is reshaping the value of everything hotels have invested in reputation management. "AI likes to avoid hallucinations and likes to avoid being wrong. And so that means it relies increasingly more on verified, validated content." The implication: The reviews, responses, and structured content that many hotels treated as a secondary priority are now among the most important inputs to whether they appear in AI-generated recommendations at all.


[16:59] Why you cannot wait for AI to settle - The episode's most direct challenge to the hospitality industry's instinct to adopt slowly and follow later-stage trends. Chris addresses the familiar plan of waiting to see which AI model wins before investing, with characteristic bluntness: "Once they decide what the model is, then I'll sort of get in line. That's not going to work here, right? You really gotta be learning as you go and adapting and test and learn, just be willing to sort of spend resources to keep abreast of this change because it is going to be very different." It's the episode's defining call to action.


[21:09] Why integrated stacks are beating best-of-breed - Chris challenges one of hospitality technology's most deeply held beliefs: that picking the best point solution for every function produces the best overall outcome. "The gains don't come from the best at something. They come from getting something talking and integrated with everything else." In an AI environment where the value comes from cross-system data synthesis, a mediocre stack that communicates end-to-end is now outperforming a collection of best-in-class tools that don't.



Chapters:
00:00 - Why waiting for AI to settle won't work 
02:09 - From airline pricing to hotel revenue strategy 
06:44 - AI, intent, and the curated offer set 
09:25 - How hotels compete for the AI consideration set 
13:02 - Verified content and the end of keyword SEO 
18:26 - The true cost of data silos in hotel identity 
21:09 - Integrated tech stacks and the agent-to-agent future




If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review it on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Instructions on how to do this are here and follow us on LinkedIn so you never miss a moment! 
Hotel Moment Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so


Previous guests include: Shannon Knapp, CEO of Leading Hotels of the World (LHW), Patrick Norton of Brittain Resorts & Hotels, Shawn Jereb of Montage International, Carlo Del Mistro, Chief Digital Officer of Ennismore, Jason Pirock of Springboard Hospitality, and many more.


Are you a hospitality industry leader with insights to share? We're always looking for innovative voices to join our conversation about the future of hospitality technology.

If you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming episode of Hotel Moment, we'd love to hear from you! Our podcast reaches thousands of hospitality professionals worldwide, and we're particularly interested in perspectives on:

• Innovation in hospitality technology
• Guest experience transformation
• Revenue optimization strategies
• Emerging industry trends

Express your interest in being a guest →
Check out the three most downloaded episodes:

• Revinate’s new CEO — on a mission to empower hoteliers with data-driven technology | with Bryson Koehler 
• Guests define what luxury means today | with Shannon Knapp
• Your commercial strategy as an evolution and not a revolution | with Jennifer Hill
  
  

In this episode of Hotel Moment, Karen Stephens, CMO of Revinate, sits down with Dina Niekamp, SVP of Brand and Marketing at Aparium Hotel Group, to explore why emotional connection has become hospitality's new measure of luxury, and why no amount of AI sophistication can replace the instinct to read a guest in the moment. Aparium, a longtime Revinate customer, operates eight one-of-one lifestyle hotels across the US with four to five more in development, each one custom designed to feel native to its neighborhood rather than stamped with a single master brand.


What you'll learn:


● Storytelling as brand strategy: How Aparium's portfolio-wide "As Told By" campaign puts local makers, chefs, and small business owners at the center of each property's marketing instead of relying on traditional brand messaging.


● The translocal philosophy: Why Aparium designs its bars and restaurants so a transient business traveler and a neighborhood local feel equally at home in the same space, and how that shapes everything from lighting to programming.


● The blue flame concept: How the idea of the bar as the hottest, most social part of the hotel reframes food and beverage as the emotional center of the guest experience, not a separate amenity.


● The fifth meatball mindset: Aparium's internal philosophy that empowers every team member to create small, unscripted moments of generosity without needing permission or overthinking it.


● Where AI genuinely helps: How AI is already easing pre-arrival planning and reducing guest stress points, while keeping brand voice and personalization authentic rather than generic.


● Why AI can't read the room: Dina's case for why the most memorable hospitality moments still depend on a human noticing a guest is flustered, stressed, or in need of something unscripted.


● Building distinct identities, not one brand: Why Aparium intentionally avoids a single visual or verbal brand system, instead building each hotel's identity from years of community research before it ever opens.


● Leadership lessons from a second-generation hotelier: Dina's career path from a Four Seasons Chicago entry-level role to brand leadership, and the mantra of collecting lessons and relationships while staying out of unnecessary drama.


● Where hoteliers should start: Dina's practical advice for any hotel team wanting more emotionally connected guest experiences, beginning with frontline buy-in before community partnerships and brand expression.


Karen and Dina also discuss the evolving role of women in hospitality leadership, the discipline required to stay focused on outcomes rather than internal politics, and how Aparium's new "Aparium For" platform brings its lifestyle ethos to soft-branded properties at scale.



If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review it on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Instructions on how to do this are here.

Connect with Dina Niekamp here:

• LinkedIn
• Aparium Hotel Group

Connect with Karen Stephens here:

• LinkedIn
• Revinate

Follow the podcast here:

• LinkedIn

Episode Highlights
[03:50] Hotels are becoming more than a place to sleep - Dina traces how guest expectations have shifted over the past decade, pointing to a real and lasting appetite for something beyond a room, a bar, or a restaurant. "There's a real and lasting appetite for hotels specifically to be more than a place to sleep or a bar or a restaurant to go to, but that genuine service paired with memorable experiences." It's the foundational idea behind everything Aparium has built since its founding.


[05:12] Storytelling is hospitality's new currency - Asked how Aparium translates emotional connection into marketing, Dina points to the company's portfolio-wide "As Told By" campaign, which centers local collaborators rather than hotel staff. "Those of us in lifestyle are really lucky to be content-driven brands, and it's about the story first." The approach gives each property a voice rooted in real community relationships rather than generic brand messaging.


[11:43] The fifth meatball: why AI can't read the room - In one of the episode's most memorable moments, Dina explains Aparium's internal philosophy for unscripted generosity. "You don't need to ask. You don't need to overthink it. You need to bring them the little pleasures." She follows it with a line Karen calls her new favorite quote of the year: the idea that no matter how advanced AI becomes, it still can't read the room the way a person can.


[14:21] The blue flame: Aparium's translocal bar philosophy - Dina unpacks two foundational ideas behind Aparium's food and beverage strategy: "translocal," the made-up word describing spaces where a business traveler and a local feel equally welcome, and "blue flame," the idea of the bar as the hottest, most social center of the hotel. Together they explain why Aparium's restaurants and bars function less like amenities and more like the emotional heart of each property.


[21:56] Start with your people before your guests - Closing with advice for any hotelier chasing emotional connection, Dina reframes where transformation actually begins. "Start with the people, because if they don't buy into what we're doing here, that is not going to resonate to the customer." It's a reminder that brand storytelling only works once the frontline team genuinely understands and believes in it.



Chapters:
00:00 - The fifth meatball: bringing the little pleasures 
02:22 - Inside Aparium's two-tier lifestyle hotel collection 
03:32 - From advertising dreams to Four Seasons Chicago 
04:49 - Why travelers want more than just a place to stay 
06:57 - Storytelling as Aparium's North Star: the "As Told By" campaign 
11:13 - Where AI helps, and where it can't read the room 
14:21 - Translocal and the blue flame: Aparium's F&B philosophy






If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review it on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Instructions on how to do this are here and follow us on LinkedIn so you never miss a moment! 
Hotel Moment Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so


Previous guests include: Shannon Knapp, CEO of Leading Hotels of the World (LHW), Patrick Norton of Brittain Resorts & Hotels, Shawn Jereb of Montage International, Carlo Del Mistro, Chief Digital Officer of Ennismore, Jason Pirock of Springboard Hospitality, and many more.


Are you a hospitality industry leader with insights to share? We're always looking for innovative voices to join our conversation about the future of hospitality technology.

If you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming episode of Hotel Moment, we'd love to hear from you! Our podcast reaches thousands of hospitality professionals worldwide, and we're particularly interested in perspectives on:

• Innovation in hospitality technology
• Guest experience transformation
• Revenue optimization strategies
• Emerging industry trends

Express your interest in being a guest →
Check out the three most downloaded episodes:

• Revinate’s new CEO — on a mission to empower hoteliers with data-driven technology | with Bryson Koehler 
• Guests define what luxury means today | with Shannon Knapp
• Your commercial strategy as an evolution and not a revolution | with Jennifer Hill
  
  

In this episode of Hotel Moment, Karen Stephens, CMO of Revinate, sits down with Jeff Michael, Area Director of Revenue Management at Sage Hospitality Group, to unpack one of hospitality's quieter problems: hotels now have more data than ever, yet many commercial teams are making decisions no faster, or no better, than they did a decade ago. Drawing on more than 25 years moving from hotel operations into commercial leadership, Jeff lays out exactly where that breakdown happens and what high-performing teams do differently.


What you'll learn:

● Data overload creates its own kind of paralysis: Why having access to more data points than ever before has, counterintuitively, made some commercial teams slower and less confident in their decisions, not faster.

● Reporting is not strategy: The clear line Jeff draws between a revenue manager who reports out on numbers all day and one who uses those same numbers to take action, and why the first version quietly erodes a commercial role.

● The tell-tale sign of a team drowning in data: How a simple pattern, lots of explanation and no follow-up action, reveals whether a hotel's revenue function is functioning strategically or just generating reports.

● Commercial alignment usually isn't real alignment: Why sales, marketing, and revenue teams often say they're aligned while their actual incentives and goals point in different directions, and the exercise Jeff uses to fix it.

● Total profitability as the new North Star: Why metrics like RevPAR and RGI alone no longer capture what owners actually need, and how tying every department's goals back to total hotel profitability changes behavior across the board.

● Guest lifetime value finally becomes calculable: Why this metric has historically been difficult to pin down with confidence, and how AI is starting to make it usable at a scale hotels could not manage manually.
● What elite commercial teams have in common: Jeff's take on the mix of talent, trust, and open communication that separates market-leading hotel teams from the rest, built from his experience leading several of them.

● AI is removing the busywork, not the strategist: How Jeff is already seeing AI take over the reporting and analyst tasks that used to consume revenue managers' time, freeing them to focus on actual commercial strategy.

● A low-pressure way to build AI fluency on a team: The simple, hands-on approach Jeff uses to get his team comfortable experimenting with AI tools rather than fearing them.


Karen and Jeff also touch on how total revenue optimization extends beyond rooms into outlets and ancillary spend, and Jeff closes with advice for young revenue leaders entering the industry: stay curious, build genuine relationships with your team, and don't rush past the experience each role has to teach you.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review it on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Instructions on how to do this are here.

Connect with Jeff Michael here:

• LinkedIn
• Sage Hospitality Group

Connect with Karen Stephens here:

• LinkedIn
• Revinate

Follow the podcast here:

• LinkedIn

Episode Highlights
[04:22] When more data becomes the problem, not the solution - Karen and Jeff get into one of the most counterintuitive shifts in modern revenue management: more data has not automatically meant better decisions. "We used to always say we need more data to make good decisions, and now we have this overload of data," Jeff explains, describing how teams can end up paralyzed trying to review everything before acting. It reframes the entire conversation around what commercial teams should actually be optimizing for.

[05:25] The warning sign that a team is drowning in reports - Jeff shares the exact pattern that tips him off when a revenue team has lost the plot. "When I see lack of action, that tells me that we're kind of drowning in the data or drowning in the reporting," he says, describing conversations where a revenue manager explains what is happening in the numbers but has no plan for what to do about it. It's a simple diagnostic any commercial leader can apply immediately.

[08:10] Why profitability is the only metric that aligns a whole hotel - After describing how commercial departments often chase conflicting KPIs, Jeff lands on the metric that actually works. "These days, it has to come down to profitability," he says, explaining that this shift in thinking is what finally gets revenue, sales, and marketing pointed at the same outcome. The insight reframes commercial alignment as a math problem as much as a culture problem.

[09:25] Guest lifetime value is finally becoming a usable metric - Asked how hotels should think differently about guest lifetime value, Jeff is candid about the historical difficulty: "In many instances we're still struggling to always have that calculation." But he sees AI changing that. "This is gonna be a more important key metric going forward," he says, tying it directly to better retention strategy and more precise targeting of the guests worth investing in.

[15:22] The AI experiment that won back two hours instantly - Jeff shares a simple exercise he gave his team: ask AI to review your calendar for the week and suggest how to optimize it. "Everyone came back blown away," he says, describing how the tool flagged call fatigue and reprioritized tasks they hadn't thought to question. Karen adds her own version of the same realization, joking that the time saved is "crazy." It's a small story that makes a much bigger point about adoption: the fastest way past AI hesitation is simply trying it.


Chapters:
00:00 - The AI personalization opportunity hotels are missing 
01:05 - From hotel operations to revenue management leadership 
04:03 - From data reporting to true revenue intelligence 
06:07 - Aligning revenue, sales, and marketing around one goal 
09:15 - Rethinking guest lifetime value in the AI era 
11:18 - What separates high-performing commercial teams 
13:05 - How AI will reshape commercial strategy in five years


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review it on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Instructions on how to do this are here and follow us on LinkedIn so you never miss a moment! 
Hotel Moment Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so


Previous guests include: Shannon Knapp, CEO of Leading Hotels of the World (LHW), Patrick Norton of Brittain Resorts & Hotels, Shawn Jereb of Montage International, Carlo Del Mistro, Chief Digital Officer of Ennismore, Jason Pirock of Springboard Hospitality, and many more.


Are you a hospitality industry leader with insights to share? We're always looking for innovative voices to join our conversation about the future of hospitality technology.

If you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming episode of Hotel Moment, we'd love to hear from you! Our podcast reaches thousands of hospitality professionals worldwide, and we're particularly interested in perspectives on:

• Innovation in hospitality technology
• Guest experience transformation
• Revenue optimization strategies
• Emerging industry trends

Express your interest in being a guest →
Check out the three most downloaded episodes:

• Revinate’s new CEO — on a mission to empower hoteliers with data-driven technology | with Bryson Koehler 
• Guests define what luxury means today | with Shannon Knapp
• Your commercial strategy as an evolution and not a revolution | with Jennifer Hill
  
  

In this episode of Hotel Moment, Karen Stephens, CMO of Revinate, and Dylan Cole, Managing Director EMEA, tackle the most significant structural shift in hotel distribution since the rise of online travel agencies: the emergence of AI as a primary channel for travel discovery and booking. With Google's recent expansion of hotel booking into its Universal Commerce Protocol, the race to show up in AI search is no longer hypothetical. Karen and Dylan trace how this shift evolved, where it is headed, and why hotels that act now will hold a structural advantage over those still optimizing for yesterday's search landscape.


What you'll learn:

● Google's UCP and what it means for direct bookings: How Google's move to bring hotel booking into its AI-powered Universal Commerce Protocol marks a genuine turning point in where and how guests discover hotels, and why hoteliers who are paying attention have an early-mover advantage.

● The AI-to-agent booking future: What it would look like for guests to use personal AI bots that search and book travel on their behalf, and why hotels need to be discoverable by machines, not just by humans, for that future to work in their favor.

● OTAs and AI: coexistence over disruption: Why Booking.com and other major OTAs with deep infrastructure are more likely to partner with platforms like ChatGPT than compete with them, and what that means for hotel distribution strategy right now.

● Conversational search and long-tail discoverability: How the shift from keyword search to natural language queries changes the way hotels need to structure their website content and FAQs to show up when AI agents are searching.
● The five foundations every hotel needs: Clean first-party data, a robust CRM or CDP, a direct booking experience that converts, structured website content, and smart reputation management — the checklist for competing in an AI-first distribution world.
● AI applications hoteliers are using today: From automated upsells and multilingual communications to campaign optimization and call center augmentation, the practical ways AI is already lifting hotel revenue and reducing operational costs.

● Why the next 12 months matter more than the next five years: How hoteliers entering budget season can prioritize their investments to build the foundation they need before the competitive window narrows further.

● First-party data as a strategic asset: As global privacy regulations tighten, the data you own is the only data you can reliably act on, and a CRM or CDP is what makes that asset actionable at scale.

● The real cost of accepting OTA dependency: Why settling for OTA volume without fighting to win back a meaningful percentage of direct business leaves real revenue uncaptured every season.

Karen and Dylan also discuss the generational divide in travel booking behavior, why luxury travelers are likely to keep humans in the loop longer than budget travelers, and how the experiences of major chains investing heavily in AI create both a threat and a playbook for independent properties.

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review it on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Instructions on how to do this are here.

Connect with Dylan Cole here:

• LinkedIn
• Revinate

Connect with Karen Stephens here:

• LinkedIn
• Revinate

Follow the podcast here:

• LinkedIn

Episode Highlights
[03:16] The moment AI moved from research to reservations - For years, AI's role in travel was largely about discovery. Dylan pinpoints the shift when AI started moving into the comparison and booking phases, with Google's Universal Commerce Protocol as the clearest signal yet. "We're starting to see it move more towards booking directly in the AI. So that's gonna be a huge shift. And we're obviously just in the beginning of all this, but think about where we're gonna be in like five, ten years." This is the context that makes everything else in the episode actionable.
[07:52] The wife bot and the personal AI travel agent - When Karen introduces the concept of AI-to-agent vacation booking, Dylan responds with characteristic honesty before zeroing in on what it means for hoteliers: "I already think that this might help my marriage because I already rely on my wife bot who is much better at planning than me." The punchline lands, but his operational point lands harder: hotels need to be visible to AI agents that shop on behalf of guests, not just to the guests themselves.
[11:36] Why Booking.com isn't going anywhere - Dylan offers the most grounding reframe of the episode on the OTA question every hotelier is privately asking. "I don't see a world where all of a sudden we wake up and Booking.com is gone. They have 24,000 employees there. They do a lot of things beyond just the booking itself." His argument is that OTAs and AI platforms are converging toward a partnership model, and the opportunity for hotels is to claim discoverability ground in that new architecture before OTAs do.

[19:54] The grocery store problem with hotel AI - Dylan opens his answer to "what should hotels prioritize?" with a story about a grocery chain that deployed AI for recipe recommendations with messy underlying data and ended up suggesting cleaning products be mixed with pasta sauce. "The idea was great, but the data was bad." It is the cleanest possible metaphor for why no AI strategy works without a clean data foundation first, and it reframes the entire conversation about technology investment sequencing.
[28:44] Don't hand your guests to the OTAs - Dylan closes with the most direct call to action in the episode, urging hoteliers to resist the passive acceptance of OTA dependency. "I would encourage this industry to make sure that we don't let this opportunity — to take control of our business and our data and our relationship with our guests — for granted, and let's act and make sure that we stake our claim to what we deserve." With AI reshaping discoverability in real time, acting now is the difference between staking a claim and playing catch-up.


Chapters:
00:00 - How AI is changing hotel booking discovery 
03:16 - Google's Universal Commerce Protocol announcement 
07:52 - The future of AI-to-agent vacation booking 
11:36 - OTAs and LLMs: coexistence, not competition 
15:44 - Optimizing your content for conversational AI search 
19:54 - Building the data foundation hotels need now 
26:14 - How to prepare for the next 12 months


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review it on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Instructions on how to do this are here and follow us on LinkedIn so you never miss a moment! 
Hotel Moment Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so


Previous guests include: Shannon Knapp, CEO of Leading Hotels of the World (LHW), Patrick Norton of Brittain Resorts & Hotels, Shawn Jereb of Montage International, Carlo Del Mistro, Chief Digital Officer of Ennismore, Jason Pirock of Springboard Hospitality, and many more.


Are you a hospitality industry leader with insights to share? We're always looking for innovative voices to join our conversation about the future of hospitality technology.

If you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming episode of Hotel Moment, we'd love to hear from you! Our podcast reaches thousands of hospitality professionals worldwide, and we're particularly interested in perspectives on:

• Innovation in hospitality technology
• Guest experience transformation
• Revenue optimization strategies
• Emerging industry trends

Express your interest in being a guest →
Check out the three most downloaded episodes:

• Revinate’s new CEO — on a mission to empower hoteliers with data-driven technology | with Bryson Koehler 
• Guests define what luxury means today | with Shannon Knapp
• Your commercial strategy as an evolution and not a revolution | with Jennifer Hill
  
  

In this episode of Hotel Moment, we’re revisiting when Karen Stephens sat down with Wilhelm Luxem, a seasoned luxury hospitality leader with an impressive 50-year career spanning iconic properties and industry leadership roles. As head of quality commission at Swiss Deluxe Hotels and former GM of the legendary Baur Au Lac, Wilhelm brings unique perspectives on technology adoption in luxury hospitality.


What you'll learn:

-  Technology philosophy for luxury hotels: How technology should complement service DNA and stay in the background, freeing up time for genuine human connections with guests
- Strategic tech adoption filters: Wilhelm's framework for evaluating technology choices, including compatibility with existing infrastructure, evolution potential, and staff implementation ease
- Staff training best practices: Why intuitive systems that don't require more than two weeks of training are essential for successful technology adoption
- Evolving guest expectations: The shift from materialistic luxury (marble and gold fixtures) toward personalized experiences and authentic human connections
- The future of luxury hospitality: Why Wilhelm believes the greatest time for hospitality is ahead, as hotels become "bubbles of analog connection" in an increasingly digital world
- Quality assurance in luxury hotels: How Swiss Deluxe Hotels maintains standards across 43 five-star superior properties through investment monitoring, mystery shopping, and guest feedback analysis
- Industry networking and mentorship: Wilhelm's involvement with the European Hotel Managers Association and efforts to connect experienced hoteliers with emerging talent

Wilhelm also discusses the remarkable history of Baur Au Lac (seven generations of family ownership since 1844) and how luxury hotels have always evolved with technology while maintaining core service excellence.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review it on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Instructions on how to do this are here.

Connect with Wilhelm Luxem here:

• LinkedIn
• Swiss Deluxe Hotels

Connect with Karen Stephens here:

• LinkedIn
• Revinate

Follow the podcast here:

• LinkedIn

Episode Highlights:
[05:01] Technology as service enabler - Wilhelm establishes his core philosophy: "The key element of those choices is always how can technology complement, first of all, our DNA, our service philosophy, and how can it improve our efficiency as an organization? Technology should always be in the background. It should not move in between our clients and us." This principle guides all technology decisions at luxury properties.
[08:15] The two-week training rule - Wilhelm emphasizes the importance of intuitive systems: "If it takes more than two weeks to train staff, you've picked the wrong product. You have to excite people about systems." He advocates for technology that people can learn through exploration rather than extensive classroom training.
[12:57] The luxury experience evolution - Wilhelm identifies a crucial shift in guest expectations: "People are shifting away from a materialistic approach — the glitzy marble and golden water taps — towards more of an experience, personalized service, of a very strong recognition and respect for the guests." This trend shapes how luxury hotels must adapt their offerings.

[14:27] The future of hospitality optimism - Wilhelm shares his forward-looking perspective: "I'm very optimistic that the greatest time of hospitality is actually ahead of us because we are a sort of a bubble, kind of a land of real analog connections." As society becomes more digital, hotels offer irreplaceable human experiences.


Chapters:
00:00 - Intro 
01:59 - Wilhelm's 50-year passion for hospitality 
02:40 - Swiss Deluxe Hotels overview 
03:10 - The iconic Baur Au Lac and seven generations of ownership 
05:23 - Technology adoption philosophy in luxury hotels 
06:38 - Filtering framework for tech choices 
08:07 - Staff training and system implementation 
09:55 - Hiring for tech-forward hospitality roles 
12:26 - Evolution of luxury guest expectations 
17:09 - European Hotel Managers Association involvement 
18:37 - EHL (École Hôtelière de Lausanne) connections 
21:44 - Advice for exceptional guest experiences


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review it on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Instructions on how to do this are here and follow us on LinkedIn so you never miss a moment! 
Hotel Moment Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so


Previous guests include: Shannon Knapp, CEO of Leading Hotels of the World (LHW), Patrick Norton of Brittain Resorts & Hotels, Shawn Jereb of Montage International, Carlo Del Mistro, Chief Digital Officer of Ennismore, Jason Pirock of Springboard Hospitality, and many more.


Are you a hospitality industry leader with insights to share? We're always looking for innovative voices to join our conversation about the future of hospitality technology.

If you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming episode of Hotel Moment, we'd love to hear from you! Our podcast reaches thousands of hospitality professionals worldwide, and we're particularly interested in perspectives on:

• Innovation in hospitality technology
• Guest experience transformation
• Revenue optimization strategies
• Emerging industry trends

Express your interest in being a guest →
Check out the three most downloaded episodes:

• Revinate’s new CEO — on a mission to empower hoteliers with data-driven technology | with Bryson Koehler 
• Guests define what luxury means today | with Shannon Knapp
• Your commercial strategy as an evolution and not a revolution | with Jennifer Hill
  
  

In this episode of Hotel Moment, Karen Stephens, Chief Marketing Officer of Revinate, sits down with Jarrett Tomback, Vice President of Digital Strategy and CRM at Starwood Hotels, for a wide-ranging conversation on what it means to build genuine guest loyalty, how a human-first AI philosophy actually works in practice, and why AI engine optimization has become the most important distribution investment a hotel brand can make in 2026. Jarrett manages digital strategy and CRM across three of the most distinctive lifestyle brands in global hospitality: 1 Hotels, the sustainable nature-inspired luxury brand with locations from Hanalei Bay to Tokyo; Baccarat Hotels, which brings the 250-year heritage of the Baccarat crystal brand to life in New York and beyond; and Treehouse Hotels, built entirely around the feeling of "carefreedom" and the adventurous spirit most of us associate with childhood.


What you'll learn:

● Mission Membership reframes loyalty as belonging: Rather than competing with points-chasing programs, 1 Hotels' Mission Membership is designed so that guests feel they belong to something with purpose. Joining plants a tree. Every qualifying stay donates 1% of revenue to the guest's chosen nonprofit partner: the NRDC, Oceanic Global, or Green Our Planet. Personalization follows from the preferences members share: room setup, dining style, and personal interests.
● A 360-degree CRM view enables invisible personalization: If a guest has requested extra pillows on every previous stay, those pillows should be waiting on the next arrival without the guest having to ask again. If a preference was shared during a local dining experience, it shows up in the hotel profile. Jarrett describes building a CRM infrastructure that connects inputs from multiple sources: direct guest preferences, team observations, and dining data, all flowing into one comprehensive guest profile.
● AI is human-first at Starwood: AI amplifies what great hospitality teams can already do, it does not replace them. Most of Starwood's current AI investment is in back-of-house processes that free teams from routine tasks and give them more time with guests. Guest-facing applications are being explored carefully, particularly concierge recommendations and seamless bookings, but always with the option for direct human contact preserved.

● Dirty data makes AI worse than no AI: Jarrett is candid about the risk. If the data foundation is not clean and actionable, applying AI to guest-facing interactions produces experiences worse than what no AI would have delivered. The phrase that captures it: AI is "very confidently wrong" when the underlying data is bad. Starwood's approach is to get the data right before deploying AI where guests can see it.
● AEO is the top priority for 2026: Traditional blue-link Google search is giving way to AI-first discovery. In a world where an AI model gives a traveler three to five hotel recommendations rather than pages of results, being in that shortlist is decisive. Jarrett identifies AI engine optimization as the most urgent action any hotelier should take this year.
● Hotels must become their own source of truth for LLMs: Many hotels put more data about their properties into OTA listings than into their own knowledge bases. Jarrett's point is direct: if LLMs are pulling data from third parties to answer guest questions, those third parties win the recommendation. Building direct knowledge bases and feeding them to LLMs positions the brand as the authoritative source.

● Brand storytelling still beats pure data: Even in an AI-mediated discovery environment, the goal is to drive guests from the LLM recommendation to the hotel website, where the brand story, visual identity, and full experience context live. Data gets a hotel recommended. Storytelling gets the booking.

● Loyalty is evolving beyond the stay: Jarrett's vision for the next five years sees guests expecting loyalty programs to reflect their values and extend into their daily lives. Lifestyle brands in particular have an opportunity to bring the in-property experience into guests' routines between stays, building a sense of ongoing membership rather than a transactional relationship that only activates at check-in.

Karen and Jarrett also discuss the implications of Google's announcement about agentic commerce in the hospitality space, the regulatory landscape for data privacy across GDPR and US state laws, and what it means to own the guest relationship in an increasingly fragmented distribution environment.

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review it on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Instructions on how to do this are here.


Connect with Jarrett Tomback here:

• LinkedIn
• Starwood Hotels

Connect with Karen Stephens here:

• LinkedIn
• Revinate

Follow the podcast here:

• LinkedIn

Episode Highlights
[05:57] Membership, not loyalty — Jarrett explains why 1 Hotels walked away from the traditional points model entirely: "Our guests want personalization and they wanted to feel like they belong to something. That is where we came up with the idea of positioning it as a membership, and not a loyalty program." Mission Membership plants a tree when a guest joins, donates 1% of qualifying stay revenue to the member's chosen nonprofit partner, and uses preference data to deliver personalized in-stay experiences. It is a loyalty program built around the brand's core mission rather than around the guest's wallet.

[09:09] The extra pillow — Jarrett uses a simple example to illustrate what a 360-degree CRM profile actually enables in practice. If a guest requests extra pillows on every stay, those pillows should be in the room before the guest arrives next time, without a request. If a preference was shared during a dining experience, it flows into the hotel profile for the next stay. "We're able to take inputs from a number of sources...it's really about being able to get a comprehensive 360-degree view of the guest and their behaviors, their preferences, what they tell us directionally and observationally." Data collection and activation at that level of specificity is what makes genuine personalization possible.

[13:21] AI is very confidently wrong — Karen asks about the risk of AI without clean data, and Jarrett's response is one of the most quotable in the episode: "It's very confidently wrong when it's wrong." He acknowledges the learning that many companies are going through as they sprint into AI applications: "If the data house isn't in order, if that foundation isn't there, then the AI is going to be a worse experience than no AI at all." Starwood's approach is to invest first in back-of-house applications while ensuring data quality before deploying anything guest-facing.
[15:50] Become the source of truth — Jarrett identifies the most urgent AEO action any hotel can take. "We have the most data about our properties, but sometimes we give more of that to the OTAs than we even put out through our own sources of knowledge. Building those knowledge bases on the direct side and being able to distribute those to the LLMs so that we are the source of truth and that they're not turning to third parties to get their data is critical." The hotel that controls its own data narrative wins the LLM recommendation.
[19:53] AEO as the number one priority — Asked for the single most important action a hotelier should take in 2026, Jarrett does not hesitate: "The number one thing this year really is AEO — AI search optimization. In a world where an AI is really giving three to five recommendations and not pages and pages and pages of links, it is essential that you are in those top three to five recommendations based on the guest criteria of what they're looking for."


Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
01:49 - 1 Hotels, Baccarat, and Treehouse: three brands, one company
06:19 - Mission Membership: loyalty built around purpose, not points
08:29 - CRM as the engine of personalized guest experience
10:30 - Where AI delivers and where it needs clean data first
13:27 - Channel strategy and the AI distribution shift
15:53 - Why owning your data and content wins the LLM recommendation
18:23 - Data privacy, AEO, and the future of loyalty




If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review it on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Instructions on how to do this are here and follow us on LinkedIn so you never miss a moment! 
Hotel Moment Podcast is handcrafted by our friends over at: fame.so


Previous guests include: Shannon Knapp, CEO of Leading Hotels of the World (LHW), Patrick Norton of Brittain Resorts & Hotels, Shawn Jereb of Montage International, Carlo Del Mistro, Chief Digital Officer of Ennismore, Jason Pirock of Springboard Hospitality, and many more.


Are you a hospitality industry leader with insights to share? We're always looking for innovative voices to join our conversation about the future of hospitality technology.

If you'd like to be a guest on an upcoming episode of Hotel Moment, we'd love to hear from you! Our podcast reaches thousands of hospitality professionals worldwide, and we're particularly interested in perspectives on:

• Innovation in hospitality technology
• Guest experience transformation
• Revenue optimization strategies
• Emerging industry trends

Express your interest in being a guest →
Check out the three most downloaded episodes:

• Revinate’s new CEO — on a mission to empower hoteliers with data-driven technology | with Bryson Koehler 
• Guests define what luxury means today | with Shannon Knapp
• Your commercial strategy as an evolution and not a revolution | with Jennifer Hill
  
  

In this episode of Hotel Moment, Dylan Cole, Managing Director EMEA at Revinate, sits down with Robert-Jan Woltering, Managing Director of De L'Europe Amsterdam, for a conversation covering three decades of luxury hotel leadership, the philosophy behind one of Europe's most storied properties, and a deeply held conviction about what actually drives profitability. Robert-Jan is a fourth-generation hotelier: his grandmother opened her last hotel at 65, his father worked cruise liners and KLM, and his son is currently in management training at the Capella Hotel in Bangkok. He arrived at De L'Europe after 27 years abroad across 14 countries and five continents, called back to Amsterdam by Heineken, the hotel's owner. The hotel turns 130 this year, holds three Michelin keys as the only property in the Benelux with that distinction, and has developed 14 uniquely designed suites that turn an Amsterdam stay into an experience that cannot be replicated anywhere else in the world.


What you'll learn:

● Cost-cutting is detrimental to luxury positioning: Robert-Jan is direct and unapologetic. When you operate a true luxury hotel, the focus must be on maximizing revenues across every revenue center. When that is done correctly, profit margins follow. Cost becomes, in his words, of minimal importance: cutting it is easy enough that any fool can do it, usually at the expense of quality.

● How to build an investment case ownership will approve: Robert-Jan's approach is disciplined. Every project is evaluated from multiple angles: financial risk, standalone profitability, and positioning enhancement. When all answers point to yes, the presentation to ownership is straightforward. The philosophy of entrepreneurial leadership, looking for new revenue streams, new profit centers, and further positioning, is shared between Robert-Jan and Heineken's ownership culture, which traces back to Freddy Heineken himself.
● The hard and the soft of luxury standards: Non-negotiables at De L'Europe are precisely that: no holes in upholstery, no chips on plates, no scratches on tables. These are black and white with no discussion. The soft standards, such as reading a guest's face in the corridor, knowing whether they want a story about the art or simply to be left in peace. These are where the real experience is made. Both matter, but for different reasons.
● Authentic storytelling as a competitive strategy: De L'Europe's 14 designer suites were developed during COVID in partnership with Amsterdam creatives, with each suite themed around a cultural pillar of the city. The Van Gogh suite, the first in the world, co-created with the Van Gogh Museum and the Van Gogh family, includes a butler delivering a reproduction of the guest's chosen painting, a private curator tour of the museum, and in some cases exclusive pre- or post-closure access. This is Robert-Jan's answer to the question of what keeps a 130-year-old hotel relevant fifty years from now.
● Upselling done with integrity: De L'Europe's approach to upselling is anchored in authenticity. A private canal tour with a butler and champagne is an offer the hotel is genuinely proud to make. An $8 mineral water the guest never asked for is not. Robert-Jan draws a sharp line between adding genuine value and extracting short-term revenue from guests who will not return.

● Guest data and personalization at a luxury property: Robert-Jan acknowledges the gap between what branded chains with centralized databases can do, such as knowing a guest's preferred soap across every property, while a family-led independent hotel achieves the same through butler knowledge and on-property tools. His view on where AI takes this next is candid: the tools will allow far deeper preference insight, and most guests will welcome it. But the Diet Coke story of a VP who requested it once and received it in every hotel he visited for twenty years is a useful reminder that personalization can tip into the uncanny.

● Four generations and why Asia is essential for young hoteliers: Robert-Jan's advice to aspiring luxury hotel leaders: follow your heart first, then go to Asia. The humility embedded in Asian hospitality culture is, in his view, a quality the Western luxury world has partly lost, and one that is far easier to absorb when you are young. Hong Kong, in particular, he identifies as a genuine standard-bearer for what luxury can mean.
● What three Michelin keys require: Michelin's feedback on De L'Europe's three-key award cited the authenticity of the experience as a defining factor. The same feedback comes from Condé Nast and Travel + Leisure. The positioning Robert-Jan is working toward: a property so synonymous with Amsterdam that a travel advisor in the United States would tell a client that if they want to understand the city, De L'Europe is where they must stay.

Dylan and Robert-Jan also discuss the particular dynamics of working with a family-led owner like Heineken, the nature of trust between a general manager and ownership, and why the innkeeper philosophy of making sure every guest walks in and out with a smile has been the consistent thread across 30 years and five continents.


If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review it on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Instructions on how to do this are here.


Connect with Robert-Jan Woltering here:

• LinkedIn
• De L'Europe Amsterdam

Connect with Dylan Cole here:

• LinkedIn
• Revinate

Follow the podcast here:

• LinkedIn

Episode Highlights
[00:00] Cutting costs: the easiest move and the wrong one — Robert-Jan opens the episode with the provocation that frames everything that follows: "Cost management, yes, it is important, but it is detrimental usually to the positioning of a luxury property. If you want to operate a true luxury hotel, it is about making sure that you maximize your revenues in all the revenue centers." He is not dismissing financial discipline. He is arguing that for a genuine luxury property, the profit question is answered at the top line, not at the cost line. "Cutting cost is easy. Any fool can do it, but usually it also comes at the detriment of quality."
[05:10] Four generations and one philosophy — Robert-Jan traces his hospitality career to his grandmother, who opened her last hotel at 65 in Kitzbühel. His father worked cruise liners and KLM. His son is in management training at the Capella Hotel in Bangkok. "I guess it's in the genes somehow, somewhere." What connects all four generations is the innkeeper philosophy: "Making sure that every guest walks in not only with a smile, but also walks out with a smile, and that people are happy, like a true innkeeper used to do in the 1800s."
[13:52] Hard and soft: the two layers of luxury standards — Robert-Jan draws a distinction that every hotel leader can apply immediately. Hard standards — no holes in upholstery, no chips on plates, no scratches on tables — are non-negotiable and binary. "Either black or white." The soft standards are where the real experience lives: "If you walk here into the hotel, whether it is in our two Michelin star restaurant Flore or in our Italian trattoria — if the experience is not authentic, and if the service, the welcome, the connectivity is not a genuine connectivity, if there's no engagement between a client, a guest, and our people, it's nil." A beautiful steak without a smile and a story does not taste the same.

[19:46] The Van Gogh suite — Robert-Jan describes the experience that best captures De L'Europe's approach to authentic luxury: the world's first Van Gogh suite, co-created with the Van Gogh Museum and the Van Gogh family. Before arrival, a guest chooses between three of Van Gogh's most famous paintings: Starry Night, the sunflowers, or the bedroom. The butler arrives at check-in with a large suitcase, and together with the guest, hangs the chosen painting in the suite for the duration of the stay. The out-suite experience is a private curator tour of the Van Gogh Museum, sometimes with exclusive pre- or post-closure access. "I believe that truly guarantees you an experience that you will never have at any hotel — 100% for sure — in my city in Amsterdam, but maybe in the world."

[24:29] Upselling without the $8 water — Robert-Jan is precise about where the line falls between a meaningful upsell and a revenue extraction tactic that destroys the relationship. A private canal tour with a butler and champagne is a genuine offer. "That's like, 'Would you like to do a beautiful canal tour in a private boat and maybe have a butler on board, spoiling you to death, serving you a nice glass of champagne whilst you tour the city?'" The counterpoint is equally clear: "I don't believe in that bar where you walk in and the barmaid comes to say, 'Would you like a glass of water?' and then at the end you walk out and you've got an eight-dollar mineral water per person on your bar tab that you never really wanted because you came there for an ice-cold beer." Upselling at De L'Europe has to be something the hotel is genuinely proud to offer.


Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
00:48 - Robert-Jan Woltering and De L'Europe Amsterdam
02:16 - Heritage hotels and the properties that define a career
05:10 - Four generations of hospitality: from grandmother to Bangkok
07:06 - Why luxury owners must prioritize top-line revenue
09:17 - Presenting investment cases to ownership
12:36 - Hard and soft standards: what is non-negotiable at De L'Europe


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Previous guests include: Shannon Knapp, CEO of Leading Hotels of the World (LHW), Patrick Norton of Brittain Resorts & Hotels, Shawn Jereb of Montage International, Carlo Del Mistro, Chief Digital Officer of Ennismore, Jason Pirock of Springboard Hospitality, and many more.


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