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How being ‘green’ became elitist (are you guilty?), Mark Shayler
Mark Shayler has spent 35 years working in sustainability before it was cool - and he's saved his clients over $200 million while doing it. He's an environmental consultant, innovation specialist, and straight-talking force of nature who works with everyone from Coca-Cola to Unilever to tiny manufacturing businesses in Bradford. He believes that, whilst business created most of the world's problems, it's also the thing that can fix them.
Mark doesn't do sandals-and-placards environmentalism. He meets companies where they are, speaks the language of profit and loss, and isn't afraid to work with the "bad guys" if it means shifting their trajectory by even half a degree. This is sustainability from the inside out - messy, pragmatic, and unapologetically commercial.
In this episode, we dive into:
Why "being green" has become a way of beating people down instead of democratising climate action - and how judgment creates division, not progress
The evolution of corporate sustainability requests: from "keep me out of prison" to "keep me lean" to "help me care more" to today's "help me stay relevant and attract talent"
Why Mark would work with Shein - and exactly what he'd change (regenerative cotton, circular polyester, legitimate leasing instead of borrowing-with-tags-on)
The project-level litmus test: if you can't put the company name on your intro slide without embarrassment, don't take the work
Why quarterly reporting and employer-tied healthcare in America are the biggest brakes on innovation and brave climate action
The "highways department conundrum" - we'll need to see it's too late before we do something about it ("no one's died yet, do you want me to volunteer my 93-year-old nan?")
How consumption became an anti-depressant and why we're no happier buying our 10th pair of jeans than our first
The fertility of "rapid deposition" - why the last third of life should be about giving knowledge away, not hoarding it (and why Mark's plan is: don't retire, don't die)
Why populism and the rolling back of the green agenda isn't about sustainability at all - it's about trust, science, and people being left behind economically
The rise of "green hushing" and why we need to reclaim the narrative - ecology and economy come from the same Greek word meaning "home"
Finding the rebels and renegades inside organisations - the "weird kids" who take risks and want excitement, not corporate uniformity
Why materiality beats moral purity, why movement is a message, and why "for the many, not the few - and you are the many" is the billboard Mark would put up everywhere
——
This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth
——
Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/
And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/
——
Find Mark at: https://www.markshayler.com/
And his work at: https://www.thisisape.co.uk/
Timestamps:
00:00 How Mark Explains His Work
03:40 The Problem with Green Washing vs Green Hushing
05:39 Working With "Bad" Companies Like Coca-Cola
08:25 How Mark Judges Which Projects to Take
11:53 Projects He's Said No To
13:45 The Tension Between Good People and Bad Systems
16:30 The Shein Hypothetical
21:37 When Companies Change Beyond Recognition
23:07 How Mark Has Saved Clients $200 Million
26:00 What Green People Get Wrong About Communication
29:15 Why American Healthcare Traps Innovation
32:23 Finding the Rebels Inside Organisations
36:48 Imagination vs Constraint in Sustainability
40:35 The Gentle Stick and Massive Carrot Approach
42:28 Why You Shouldn't Retire
46:03 “Mark, can you help me to…”
49:06 The Threat of Populism to Climate Action
52:03 What Comes After "Mark, Can You Help Me?"
54:47 Will We Roll Back the Green Agenda?
58:00 Patriots vs Jingoists
59:20 If Mark Had a Global Billboard
1:01:15 Why Mark Does What He Does
View all episodes
By Rob CooperMark Shayler has spent 35 years working in sustainability before it was cool - and he's saved his clients over $200 million while doing it. He's an environmental consultant, innovation specialist, and straight-talking force of nature who works with everyone from Coca-Cola to Unilever to tiny manufacturing businesses in Bradford. He believes that, whilst business created most of the world's problems, it's also the thing that can fix them.
Mark doesn't do sandals-and-placards environmentalism. He meets companies where they are, speaks the language of profit and loss, and isn't afraid to work with the "bad guys" if it means shifting their trajectory by even half a degree. This is sustainability from the inside out - messy, pragmatic, and unapologetically commercial.
In this episode, we dive into:
Why "being green" has become a way of beating people down instead of democratising climate action - and how judgment creates division, not progress
The evolution of corporate sustainability requests: from "keep me out of prison" to "keep me lean" to "help me care more" to today's "help me stay relevant and attract talent"
Why Mark would work with Shein - and exactly what he'd change (regenerative cotton, circular polyester, legitimate leasing instead of borrowing-with-tags-on)
The project-level litmus test: if you can't put the company name on your intro slide without embarrassment, don't take the work
Why quarterly reporting and employer-tied healthcare in America are the biggest brakes on innovation and brave climate action
The "highways department conundrum" - we'll need to see it's too late before we do something about it ("no one's died yet, do you want me to volunteer my 93-year-old nan?")
How consumption became an anti-depressant and why we're no happier buying our 10th pair of jeans than our first
The fertility of "rapid deposition" - why the last third of life should be about giving knowledge away, not hoarding it (and why Mark's plan is: don't retire, don't die)
Why populism and the rolling back of the green agenda isn't about sustainability at all - it's about trust, science, and people being left behind economically
The rise of "green hushing" and why we need to reclaim the narrative - ecology and economy come from the same Greek word meaning "home"
Finding the rebels and renegades inside organisations - the "weird kids" who take risks and want excitement, not corporate uniformity
Why materiality beats moral purity, why movement is a message, and why "for the many, not the few - and you are the many" is the billboard Mark would put up everywhere
——
This podcast is brought to you by Ecologi, the UK's most trusted climate action platform. They help businesses reduce their emissions, restore our planet and report their progress for every step of their climate journey. Check them out here: https://tinyurl.com/kfswnxth
——
Subscribe to the Climate Unf*cked podcast at https://climateunfucked.substack.com/
And connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-coop/
——
Find Mark at: https://www.markshayler.com/
And his work at: https://www.thisisape.co.uk/
Timestamps:
00:00 How Mark Explains His Work
03:40 The Problem with Green Washing vs Green Hushing
05:39 Working With "Bad" Companies Like Coca-Cola
08:25 How Mark Judges Which Projects to Take
11:53 Projects He's Said No To
13:45 The Tension Between Good People and Bad Systems
16:30 The Shein Hypothetical
21:37 When Companies Change Beyond Recognition
23:07 How Mark Has Saved Clients $200 Million
26:00 What Green People Get Wrong About Communication
29:15 Why American Healthcare Traps Innovation
32:23 Finding the Rebels Inside Organisations
36:48 Imagination vs Constraint in Sustainability
40:35 The Gentle Stick and Massive Carrot Approach
42:28 Why You Shouldn't Retire
46:03 “Mark, can you help me to…”
49:06 The Threat of Populism to Climate Action
52:03 What Comes After "Mark, Can You Help Me?"
54:47 Will We Roll Back the Green Agenda?
58:00 Patriots vs Jingoists
59:20 If Mark Had a Global Billboard
1:01:15 Why Mark Does What He Does