In this episode of Cyber Focus, host Frank Cilluffo speaks with Peter W. Singer, strategist at New America, professor at Arizona State, and founder of Useful Fiction. They revisit Singer’s influential book Ghost Fleet and examine how the strategic landscape—particularly U.S.-China competition—has shifted over the past decade. Singer discusses China’s military reorganization and the lessons it's drawing from the war in Ukraine. He also explores how AI is reshaping the nature of cyber threats.

The conversation highlights the growing intersection of cyber, physical, and cognitive warfare. Singer explains how storytelling can make complex strategies easier to understand and more likely to drive change. He emphasizes the need for cross-domain thinking and a more dynamic approach to building the cybersecurity workforce.

Main Topics Covered:

• China's military reorganization and the emergence of the Information Support Force
• Lessons from the Russia-Ukraine war and implications for China
• The role of narrative and “useful fiction” in cybersecurity policy and strategy
• Hybrid threats: cyber attacks, cognitive warfare, and disinformation
• Emerging risks tied to AI, automation, and operational technology
• Breaking down silos and redefining the cybersecurity workforce 

Key Quotes:

• "If you are telling yourself that there is not a state of intense cooperation alliance between Russia and China, you are telling yourself fiction." – Peter W. Singer
• "[In 2015's Ghost Fleet] we portrayed a world where there was China catching up to us in technology capability... we're not as ahead in the race as we were back then." – Peter W. Singer
• "If we were to see such a kind of scenario [a conflict with China or Russia], the private sector would be touched by it and therefore it needs to start scenario building for it." – Peter W. Singer
• "[China] didn't enter into a [U.S.] water system because it wanted the intellectual property... No, it was setting up a beachhead in case there was a conflict." – Peter W. Singer
• "If you read a white paper, one part of your brain lights up. If you read it as told in a scenario—and it can be a true story or it can be a fictionalized story—four parts of your brain light up." – Peter W. Singer 

Relevant Links and Resources

Useful Fiction A storytelling consultancy founded by Peter Singer that helps organizations use narrative to drive strategic thinking and communication. https://www.useful-fiction.com/

Ghost Fleet: A Novel of the Next World War Singer’s bestselling speculative novel that explores how future warfare might unfold, blending real-world research with fiction. https://www.ghostfleetbook.com/

Peter W. Singer – Personal Website Singer’s official website, featuring his books, articles, media appearances, and professional background. https://www.pwsinger.com/

Peter W. Singer at New America Singer’s profile at New America, where he serves as a strategist focused on defense policy, cybersecurity, and emerging technologies. https://www.newamerica.org/our-people/peter-warren-singer/

China Intelligence – Defense One & BluePath Labs A collaborative project analyzing Chinese military and strategic developments using open-source intelligence. https://www.defenseone.com/topic/china-intelligence/

Guest Bio: Peter Warren Singer is a strategist at New America, professor of practice at Arizona State University, and founder of Useful Fiction—a company that helps organizations communicate strategy through storytelling. He’s the bestselling author of books like LikeWar, Wired for War, and Ghost Fleet, and has advised everyone from military leaders to Hollywood producers. Described by The Wall Street Journal as “the premier futurist in the national-security environment,” he’s spoken everywhere from the White House to the Sydney Opera House.