As President Trump flirts with invoking the Insurrection Act on anti-ICE demonstrators in LA, we look back at the national protests of 2020, when Trump last talked about invoking the act. Back then, there was broad energy around rethinking policing, but polls show that that energy has largely vanished. In this episode, we ask: what happened? Our guest points to what he calls copaganda – or pro-police propaganda.

A previous version of this episode incorrectly said that Alec Karakatsanis works at Equal Justice Under Law. He currently runs an organization called the Civil Rights Corps.

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