How To Build A Dating App

In the final episode of our special ‘mini series’ trilogy discussing John Kershaw's pitch on BBC's Dragons’ Den, we have John talk us through his pitch from the episode and create a contestant's commentary. This is surely the first time this has been done for a pitch on the show (probably). You’re welcome, BBC! This is a stand-alone bonus trilogy so you do not need to have listened to our previous episodes to enjoy this one.

You can watch John's pitch on M14 Industries' YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4PZywrm6TY.

Exciting points from this episode include:

00:53 Director's Commentary:

As the team settle in to watch John’s pitch to the Dragons, John talks us through his initial trepidations and his whole approach to his pitch: the beard, the shirt, and what exactly you end up doing while you’re waiting for the lift to take you into the Den.

05:53 The Pitch

The three most polished minutes of John’s life (his words!). John takes us through the anatomy of his pitch – his style, body language, “mic drop” moments and verbal killing blows, stunning statistics, the product he was actually pitching, and how much practice it takes to give a pitch that makes the Dragons smile.

17:00 Post-Pitch Discussion and Offers

John goes head to head with the Dragons, explaining M14 Industries and Bristlr, sidestepping NDA issues. We also discuss some vital – but lengthy - points that didn’t make the edit, and John’s surprise at suddenly finding that five Dragons are keen to invest in his business, and just how fragile, and complicated, that became.

39:30 Deal Done!

John talks us through his initial thought process when he was given offers by all five Dragons and how this played out on the episode. We also discuss his thoughts in hindsight on how well he did, if he would change anything, and his feelings about his Dragons’ Den experience – and this episode.

Quotes of Dragon Slayer:

John: (03:31) "This is my drama GCSE coming to the fore"

Kaitlyn: (04:16) "You're running a business, you haven't got time to iron the back of your shirt"

John: (08:28) "So I'm explaining the old, the new, still not solving the problem. By the way, did I mention billions and billions of pounds?"

John: (12:10) "I’ve done this exact pitch enough times where people like about 20 minutes in like, "oh BEARD, I thought you said beer!" And they think that it's like a pilsner-matching service"

Rate and Share this Podcast:
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

In this special episode, we welcome John Kershaw back to the studio to talk about his pitch on BBC's Dragons’ Den. This is a stand-alone bonus trilogy so you do not need to have listened to our previous episodes to enjoy this one.

04:20: Stability of a Den Deal

Half of the deals made in the Den fall through – why? John breaks down the reality of what a deal in the Den – televised to 3 million people – means as a business owner and reasons why a deal might fall apart, from differences to other investment routes, to complicated T&Cs, growth strategies, the company valuation, and more.

12:16: Investments, How Do They Work?

Naturally, John’s had a few investors interested in Bristlr and M14 industries. How does it all work? How do they get paid back? It must be more complicated than throwing around buzzwords like “share buyback”! John explains all, packaged nicely as business investment advice.

16:47: PR from the Den

Of course, pitching successfully on the Den can be a massive PR opportunity, and John describes the immediate knock-on effect on his business, for both Bristlr and M14 Industries – and shares his advice on how to prepare your website for a big increase in visitors. We also attempt a quick-fire round of questioning for John.

27:26: Side-effects

What are the best and worst elements to appearing on a huge show like Dragons’ Den? John celebrates how one of his best ever pitches is now documented forever – but what were the greater opportunities to come out of his appearance, a few years after the fact?  And are there any downsides to recognition and greater responsibility as a business owner?

37:04: John’s Day-to-Day

Now that John is a Dragon Slayer, how do things behind the scenes at M14 Industries look? As John delves into how he works on his businesses and his tips on working efficiently, we take time to discuss the UK working week, productivity, and engagement.

42:34: Dragon Relationships

Do the Dragons get along? Probably. But John lets us in on his interpretation of their on-and-off-set personas and gives us a little insight into what it’s like to be sweating right in front of them.

Fact Check:
Michael: (04:20): "In 2015, The Sunday Telegraph Newspaper published a report that revealed that half of Dragons' Den investments fall through after the show": https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/02/11/half-of-dragons-den-investments-fall-through-after-the-show/

Michael: (16:35) “Maybe Peter Jones has got a sock company”: http://www.peterjones.com/news-entry/_/launch-of-peter-jones-range-of-socks/21/

Michael: (38:52): "I think it's Sweden or somewhere... they really promote shorter weeks": https://www.instantoffices.com/blog/featured/countries-that-defy-the-9-to-5

Rate and Share this Podcast:
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

In this special episode, we welcome John Kershaw back to the studio to talk about his pitch on BBC's Dragons’ Den. This is a stand-alone bonus trilogy so you do not need to have listened to our previous episodes to enjoy this one.

02:25 Fame and Recognition

John talks gaining recognition after appearing on the show and why he originally applied: was it a serious investment route or simply a great PR opportunity? We also discuss John’s expectations, contestant advice, and his Dragon Dating app that never saw the light of day.

10:24: How Much Do You Ask For?

When you’re asking for money, how much is enough? John breaks down how his original bid might’ve been a little bit too ambitious (meeting “that mental mark of a big investment”) and how this all changed between his initial idea and his televised pitch. Those sneaky BBC editors.

14:48: The Den

How does it all work? John talks turning up early, nerves, the green room, the pre-pitch interview, make-up, and everything that turns a humble bearded entrepreneur into a dazzling TV businessman. Plus, we find out just how much footage ends up on the cutting room floor, and what the DD set is really like.

24:16 The Dragons

Fierce, feisty, and fiscal: John elaborates on which Dragons he faced, and which ones he most wanted to invest in his company. We also ask if John’s original idea was to try and get investment from more than one Dragon, and John mentions just how difficult is it to remember all five Dragons’ names in the heat of the moment.

30:37: The Deal

What happens after the lights go off and the credits roll? John remembers the immediate aftermath of leaving the Den, how the deal is processed from TV to real life, how he kept in contact with the Dragons after the deal, and, of course, the now famous Dragons’ Den potato.

36:57: Pitch Practice to get Pitch Perfect

John talks through his pitching methods and how he was in completely mastermind-ultimate-pub-quiz ready for his pitch to the Dragons – from practising with ‘competitive pitching’ to having the perfect script. How easy is it to cram your business goals into 3 very short minutes?

47:59 Reality Hits!

What was it like to deal with that post-deal rush? John discusses the initial ‘wow’ moment of receiving offers from the Dragons, talking to other Den contestants, and how his deal led to other business opportunities.

Fact Check:
Kaitlyn: (50:19): "What's a group of dragons called?"

• There are a few fun collective nouns for mythical dragons, including: a flight of dragons, a weyr of dragons, or our favourite, a wing of dragons. A group of Komodo Dragons is a bank. Neither should be confused with A Dance with Dragons, the fifth novel of the epic fantasy series A Song of Ice and Fire by George R. R. Martin, DragonForce, a British power metal band, or Imagine Dragons, a pop rock band from Las Vegas. 

Rate and Share this Podcast:
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

You can watch John's pitch on M14 Industries' YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4PZywrm6TY

Here is a teaser trailer for our THREE SPECIAL EPISODES! We’re back with dating app founder John Kershaw, talking about his pitch on BBC's Dragons’ Den, when he donned his armour, drew his sword, and went to battle against five of the UK’s most hard-headed, and hard-to-impress, multi-millionaire investors.

We explore behind the scenes of Dragons’ Den and talk prep (from shirts to pitches), filming day titbits, the stability of a Den deal and possible side effects of Den success. Plus, the lore behind Peter Jones’ bright socks, the fabled Dragons' Den potato and much more.

This is a stand-alone bonus trilogy so you do not need to have listened to our previous episodes to enjoy this one.

Catch up on Season 1 while you wait: www.howtobuildadatingapp.com

Rate and Share this Podcast:
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

You can watch John's pitch on M14 Industries' YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4PZywrm6TY

Welcome back to the How to Build a Dating App Podcast, chronicling the journey of a group of Marketeers building and launching a brand-new dating app.

This episode concludes our wonderful conversation with London-based dating expert Hayley Quinn. We chat about making the dating app user experience enjoyable, what platforms to integrate with, if opposites attract (and can they find each other on an app?), and what a successful dating app should look like.

Exciting points from this episode include:

01:06: Gaps in the Market

Almost anything could be a dating app if it’s marketed the right way, right? Hayley talks us though the current gaps in the dating app market and her views on niche dating apps – and what app model could be the best in future.

13:41: Do Opposites Attract?

What do people ultimately look for in a partner? Does a 7-foot accountant belong with the 5-foot rock-climber? Hayley discusses the most important characteristics people look for in a partner and how personalities can compliment each other.

23:01 Hayley’s Initial Clients

We ask Hayley to divulge her initial marketing plans as a dating coach, why people are drawn to learning more about dating, and how being a quick-draw when it comes to content creation helped her establish a foothold.

27:24: The Pattern Break

Hayley explains the ‘pattern break’ – the idea that people are more compatible than they think they are – and how this works in the real world. Can dating apps create more pattern breaks by not forcing users to follow a generic line of conversation?

How to Quote a Dating App:

1. “Celebrating differences and finding ways to work together and compromise are really good roots for any relationship”
2. [The stress of a new-born baby] “sounds like a business accelerator programme”

Fact Check:
Kate: (09:46) I read a stat the other day about how this year is gonna be the year that we actually have a massive majority of 55s and over on Facebook: The Guardian: There will be 6.4 million 55- to 65-year-old-plus regular Facebook users in 2018 (second largest demographic)

Rate and Share this Podcast:
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

Who is the person most opposite to you that you’ve dated? How did it work out? Let us know on our Facebook page or Twitter, or comment on our latest Instagram post!

Welcome back to the How to Build a Dating App Podcast, chronicling the journey of a group of Marketeers building and launching a brand-new dating app.

This episode continues our wonderful conversation with London-based dating expert Hayley Quinn. We discuss reasons why people might be using dating apps beyond dating (like escapism and entertainment), treating dating apps in the same way we treat social media platforms, online vs offline relationships, and corporate responsibility.

Exciting points from this episode include:

01:06: Dating Apps with a Purpose

Hayley talks us though modern requirements for dating apps as a reflection of society – but they’re not as binary as 'good vs evil' as you might think. We also discuss keeping users engaged beyond a match or date, and adding value to the dating app experience.

09:26 Talk, Don’t Read

Conversation is rated highly by dating app users above swiping photos and reading profiles. Hayley discusses maintaining that all-important initial conversation, how an app can help encourage this, and the limits of knowing someone online.

16:25: What Are Users Looking For?

Research shows a third of dating app users don’t actually end up going on a date with people they meet on apps. So why do people use dating apps? We talk with Hayley about taking the leap to meet your match, the difference in Baby Boomers and Gen Z users, and what would cause users to pursue dates in future.

23:42: Feel-Good Responsibility

Are apps – both social and dating – responsible for our (un)happiness? We ask Hayley about corporate responsibility and user mental health, and if limiting your app access time is a worthwhile idea.

32:13 Hayley’s App History

What dating apps does a relationship coach and dating expert need? Hayley goes into dating apps she’s used, if she’s a fan of them, alongside what her clients have said about their experiences too. We also discuss using dating apps for other purposes (like getting to know a city, and the people within it, having fun), beyond dating.

45:06 Algorithms for Success

Hayley provides her theories on what a successful dating app pairing could look like. Do those tiny details - like admiring a certain film - really draw you to person? How do you measure matchability? We also tackle the personal ‘brand’ that dating apps require you create for yourself and the best way to promote this.

Fact Check:
Michael: (06:37) Huggle survey: Dating apps are making people self-conscious

Laura: (16:25) Pew Research: 5 Facts About Online Dating

Rate and Share this Podcast:
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

Have you gone app-free before? How was it? Let us know on our Facebook page or Twitter.

Welcome back to the How to Build a Dating App Podcast, chronicling the journey of a group of Marketeers building and launching a brand-new dating app.

This episode continues our wonderful conversation with London-based dating expert Hayley Quinn.  We discuss giving off the right kind of signals in the era of #MeToo Movement, caution, analysing your communication, and if you’re sending the right type of message.

Exciting points from this episode include:

01:06: A Short History of the Dating Industry

Hayley goes back – way back – to dissect the changes and trends of the dating industry, from only ever living a few miles away from your future spouse, to the rise of DINK couples, shifting standards, and the economic necessity of finding a partner.

10:38 Balancing the Conversation

Do men want to be approached just as much as women do? Hayley delves into how men and women begin conversations with people they’re attracted to, and what works to create that perfect conversational environment (and what doesn’t)!

17:11: Online Dating vs Dating Apps

Hayley is a brand ambassador for Match.com, but does online dating still hold up against the Goliath mobile dating apps? We discuss the modern Match.com, its response to dating trends, and how the ‘online’ experience still offers value to users beyond a match.

29:14: Masculine and Feminine Energy

Can ‘energy’ change or affect the way that people communicate when dating? Hayley explains the meaning behind being more ‘masculine’ or ‘feminine’, how this can positively impact dating communication, and the stumbling blocks that men and women share in dating.  

35:22 Different Selves

Hayley discusses the idea of different selves – versions of you that only appear in certain situations. What versions are you cultivating on dating apps, online social profiles, and in the real world? Which is best? What challenges do we face with these selves with dating?

How to Quote a Dating App:

1. “I think probably people are quite tired of just swiping their way to something”
2. “We would think nothing of getting real business coaching, personal training … the idea that you can get coaching around your love life isn't a bad thing”
3. “We are not just one self, we are a committee of selves. We have different aspects of our personality that turn up depending on who we're with and what kind of social environment we're in”
4. “I think {it's] unnatural to be totally unguarded and 100% your down to earth self when you're with someone that you just don't know all that well. I mean that can be really difficult, right?”
5. “Most of the time guys do not have a plan. They're just literally going along with it and seeing what happens”

Rate and Share this Podcast:
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

We want to know your best dating lesson or takeaway!  Let us know on our Facebook page or Twitter, or comment on our latest Instagram post!

Welcome back to the How to Build a Dating App Podcast, chronicling the journey of a group of Marketeers building and launching a brand-new dating app.

In this episode, hosts Kate, Michael and Laura welcome London-based dating expert Hayley Quinn, who takes a look through a ‘real-world’ lens at the dating industry and the current dating narrative that needs to be changed for the better, her experience building a coaching business and her success in a male-dominated industry, and what tools you need to be able to succeed in the dating industry.

Exciting points from this episode include:

01:12: From 42-Year-Old Man to Dating Coach

Hayley talks about her career as a ghostwriter-turned-coach-turned-dating consultant, how she started her career going to pick-up artist seminars, and how being an anomaly in the dating industry has led to giving people the tools they need to meet others and build relationships.

08:01: Dating as a Business

Hayley discusses how there’s an authentic need to deliver real-world dating advice, her first role in content creation and how the late-2000s online content boom helped shape the current dating landscape and her career. She also talks about the successes of ‘digital nomads’ and adopters of niche lifestyles.

17:21: Speaking Frankly

Hayley talks about how being one of the only women in the dating coach scene when she started formed her future career, how it’s OK to not always do things 'by design', and the two majorly important skills to have if you’re going to speak with authority on dating.   

23:23: Dating as an Industry

Hayley breaks down what she sees as the worst offences in the dating industry – from patronising messages, unhealthy language and shocking advice, to being taken seriously as a woman in a male-orientated industry – and how this can be addressed. Are dating app experiences spoiled by preconceived mindsets on how dating should work?

28:24: Being in Control of Your Dating Life

Hayley talks about the positive attitudes surrounding women’s empowerment and the effect this has on the dating realm. Can women’s success in educational and professional spheres transfer to dating? How are our dating expectations formed?

How to Quote a Dating App:

1. “I was a twenty-three-year-old woman pretending I was a forty-two year old man living in New York”
2. “We used to sublet a room within the house to one of our coaching clients who paid most of the bills in exchange for us coaching him, creating probably the most awkward and worst living dynamic ever”
3. “often [dating] is such a sensitive area for people's lives. If they have a negative personal experience, that can directly affect how they then relate to your brand”

Rate and Share this Podcast:
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

We want to know your best dating lesson or takeaway! Let us know on our Facebook page or Twitter, or comment on our Facebook page or comment on our latest Instagram post!

Welcome back to the How to Build a Dating App Podcast, chronicling the journey of a group of Marketeers building and launching a brand-new dating app.

In this episode, our enlighting conversation John Kershaw, mastermind of niche dating app Bristlr, and founder of M14 Industries, concludes for now. We reflect on the journey of some of John’s previous clients from small start-ups to big businesses, what a good churn rate looks like, handling user data, and gender identities in dating apps.

Exciting points from this episode include:

01:31: Journeys of John's Clients

John recollects the journeys that some of his previous clients - niche dating and social apps – have taken and where they are now. Was it all smooth sailing? John talks about the main takeaways and learning experiences from building niche apps, and if social media platforms can also act as a dating app.

09:42: The Appeal of the Connection Economy

Is dating now ‘on-demand’? We discuss with John the expectations of modern app-users and how technology is allowing us to connect with almost anything we’re looking for; from food, to transport, to people.

11:40: Creating a Clean Feeling App

Can modern dating apps reflect the current trends of the KonMarie Method, minimalism, and the rejection of “things”? John takes us though the ramifications of ‘clean’ and uncluttered design on a dating app, and where that could lead us in future.

15:25: The Open Gender Project

Gender is complex. So are preferences. John founded the Open Gender Project – a library of software finding ways to accurately represent people in software in dating – considering this complexity and how many dating apps simply make gender a binary choice.

19:13 Who Owns App Data?

While John isn’t a lawyer by trade, he’s learned a lot about data storage, the easiest, most effective way of keeping users’ data secure, and the dos-and-don'ts of data and infrastructure handling in the era of GDPR.

28:20 Our Next Steps

John grills the team on what our next steps are and our learning experiences so far, and what our future plans and research looks like.

How to Quote a Dating App:

1. “…don't go all in from day one, you are guaranteed to fail”
2. “…if you are targeting a niche it's usually because you're in that niche and you're under-served and then you are a perfect person to come up with a solution for that”
3. “the fact that Facebook have brought out their own dating app feels almost redundant”
4. “If you're just going to divide people down a binary you might as well choose an important one like do you have a beard?”

Rate and Share this Podcast:
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

What would you expect from a brand-new dating app? Let us know on our Facebook page or Twitter, or comment on our latest Instagram post!

Welcome back to the How to Build a Dating App Podcast, chronicling the journey of a group of Marketeers building and launching a brand-new dating app.

In this episode, our enlightening conversation John Kershaw, mastermind of niche dating app Bristlr, and founder of M14 Industries, continues. John breaks down his best tips for getting great PR, how to make sure your app actually works once people are interested and rounding out your skill set to capture every part of the app-build process.

Exciting points from this episode include:

01:13: Mapping Marketing for Bristlr

John explains how he initially marketed Bristlr beyond the PR of “Tinder for Beards” and snagged those all-important initial users, and his experiences on how not to market your brand.

06:53: Testing Functionality and Aesthetic

How can you make sure your dating app works properly, and doesn’t send your information to Russian cryptocurrency scammers? Can you make it look better than a website from the late 90s? It’s all about testing.

09:58: Getting Competitive

Who’s your competition? Do niche apps even have competitors? John discusses his competition with Bristlr, and how he’s dealt with it since Bristlr’s launch.

14:06: Does that App Really Exist?

Dating apps often start life as a website or sign-up form. Is it all just PR guff? How many niche apps do you need to increase your user base? John shares his experiences with PR, how many apps is too many, and why so many dating apps launch as a broken mess straight from the app store.

22:44 Bristlr’s Launch: Android vs Apple

We ask if it’s better to launch an app on Android, Apple, or both? What are the pros and cons of each? John talks about how he took Bristlr in a certain direction at launch, if it was the right way, and a blow-by-blow account of Bristlr’s early days.

27:41 Skills That Pay the Bills

Can you wear two hats at once? John talks about his development background, learning how to create a ‘business’, and what the most important skill-sets are for creating a marketable app.

34:26 The Future of Social Apps

John goes through the possibilities of creating social apps that can be purpose-built to serve large under-served social communities.

How to Quote a Dating App:

1. “Don't get me started on the beards/moustache thing. It's a whole thing. There's a reason that it's called the Beard and Moustache Championships. I have learned this the hard way after dropping quite the clanger to a local beard group"
2. “I ended up in Manchester Market Street … I just had to stand there getting humiliated as these random people just come up and they just randomly touch my beard. Or tell me that they hated beards to my face with a camera crew there"
3. “My to do list at [launch] was just five post-it notes stuck to the side of my monitor”
4. “I've built dozens of stupid websites, and [Bristlr] just happened to be the one that took off”

Rate and Share this Podcast:
If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

What would be a cool niche dating app? Let us know on our Facebook page or Twitter, or comment on our latest Instagram post!