Dr. Marv Penner is a veteran Canadian youth worker, founder of the National Center for Excellence in Youth Ministry and the author of many books on youth ministry and parenting including Help! My Kids Are Hurting. He is also a licensed marriage and family counselor who specializes in parent-youth relationships, sexual abuse recovery, eating disorders and other adolescent issues. In this episode of Legacy Grandparenting, Marv visits with our co-hosts Wayne Rice and John Coulombe and shares his thoughts on how grandparents can be a refuge of safety for grandchildren who may be struggling with loneliness, anxiety, depression, self-harm, substance abuse or other difficult life and family situations. He offers special encouragement and hope for grandparents who have had to step into the role of parents for their grandchildren. "Our grandkids don't need us to be cool," he says. "They just need us to be safe."