Episode summary:

In this episode, Nick speaks with David “Kitch” Kitchens about sports psychology, building leaders, and his view of the world from the standpoint of someone who was a bi-racial football player in a small town, and how that shaped his life.

What to listen for:

“No matter where you go, people are people. But you also realize how superficial and how surface level a lot of the United States culture is and how we are not the center of the world”

“Being somebody that’s biracial and somebody that grew up African-American in a predominantly white area, it just furthered my ability to be kind of a social chameleon and be able to meet people of different creeds and all walks of life. And I think if I didn’t have those experiences, I wouldn’t be who I was as a coach, and I wouldn’t be who I am now as a business owner.”

“There were definitely instances where I encountered some racism. And again, it pales in comparison to what other people have gone through it, and, and it was something that I said, openly, when everything happened right at the beginning of the pandemic with George Floyd and the social justice movement.”

About David “Kitch” Kitchen:

Coach Kitch is the Founder and President of Edge Leadership Academy. He is a former Division 1 Coach and a PhD Candidate with a master’s degree in sports psychology, who has a decade of experience building leaders, culture, and mindset at the highest levels of sports and business. He is the author of *The Pyramid: A System for Building Tomorrow’s Leaders Today*, and *The Scoreboard: A Self-Audit System to Help You Build the Life You Want.* As a speaker, consultant, and coach, Coach Kitch is trusted by 100+ CEOs, coaches, and high performers to help them lead and win in business, athletics, and life.

Resources:

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Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

00:00
being somebody that’s biracial and somebody that grew up African American in a predominantly white area, um it just furthered my ability to be kind of a social chameleon and be able to get along with people of different creeds and all walks of life. And I think if I didn’t have those experiences, I wouldn’t be who I was as a coach and I wouldn’t be who I am now as a business owner.

00:29
Hello and welcome to the mindset and self mastery show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. And today on the show I have Kitch or otherwise known as David Kitchen. Kitch, what’s up, man? How you doing? Oh dude, I’m doing great, man. I’m fired up to be here. This is going to be a fun conversation. Oh man, I agree. I love shooting the shit we guess a few minutes before we hit record. Some people, kind of need that. They need to feel comfortable to be able to have a conversation.

00:54
And they’re like, okay, I can get into this. Other people are like, look, I’ve done fucking 900 episodes of podcasts. I can talk about anything and everything. And then some people, just start talking about Philly or Pennsylvania things. And I’m like, you know, this is going to be fucking wonderful. And I think this is one of those episodes where we’re going to really enjoy it. Shit, we were just bullshitting for a little bit. And I was like, wow, we should probably just hit record so we can get into this stuff.

01:19
But man, why don’t you kick us off? Why don’t you tell us what do do for a living and what’s one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre? Yeah, man. So for a living, I actually do public speaking. So I own a company called Edge Leadership Academy. I founded that about three years ago. And what we do is we simplify high performance and leadership into frameworks and skills and different ways for people to execute on that in their lives, in their businesses, in their personal lives, in their relationships, et cetera.

01:47
So we kind of have three arms to the business. basically have our corporate side, is corporate management training, leadership training. We do C-suite, executive training, things like that. We do workshops, all types of different curriculums within that space. Then we have our athletic side, which is college teams, universities. We work with athletic directors, coaches, et cetera, team building, culture building, leadership development, all that stuff. And then in the middle, which kind of

02:14
brings everything together. have our high performance network, which is essentially one-on-one coaching, mentorship programs. We do a cohort type leadership style trainings as well. And then we do a lot of high performance, like one-on-one performance coaching with entrepreneurs, professional athletes, uh CEOs, execs, different types of people in that space as well. So anything that has to do with leadership culture, high performance in one way or another, we do it.

02:41
And then something that people don’t know about me. So I actually lived in Europe for six months and it’s kind of a uh wild story. was basically it started as uh there was an opportunity to do an internship while I was in college and they would pay for you to live and for us as football players, we got to skip spring ball if we went and if we got accepted to this. So I went to all my friends and I said, dude, let’s go do this. uh And so we got accepted.

03:11
And we got to fly over to Europe and we’re there for six months and we were doing an internship for a company called uh Husky Limited. believe they’re called they’re like an outdoors company. It’s basically like the North Face and they pay for you to live in Europe for six months and they give you this whole experience right of traveling and all these different things. And then at the end you have to go and present to their board. So you work for them. And so we got put on this project and naturally it’s me and like six other football players and then some other will just.

03:40
you know, for lack of better term, we’ll call them kind of nerds that were on the trip with us. Loved them to death. were great people. We ended up being really close friends. uh But they took this project really seriously. The rest of us, we called it the Don’t Stop the Party Tour. And so we were over there for six months traveling, partying, doing all these things. And it ended with a presentation in Prague in the Czech Republic um at their headquarters where we got to present to their CEO and all these things. And basically we had to tell them whether we thought it was a good idea

04:10
for them to expand into North America or to stay as a European company. So we’ve done all the market research and all this stuff. Now, obviously we didn’t do much of the background work. uh And the night before the presentation, we actually ended up taking everybody out on our team that was on our group and our team. We took them out in Prague. And I don’t know if you’ve ever been to the Czech Republic or Prague, but it’s party central.

04:35
So we took all these people who were not partiers out with a bunch of football players and we painted the town red, man. We had a night and we got back and we’re like, dude, we have to present tomorrow morning and we don’t know anything. So me and a couple of the other football guys, stayed up throughout the night and learned everything and got in there and we actually told the CEO no. So we told him, no, we don’t think you should expand. And he was like, what? Like we put all these resources behind this and we kind of walked him through it, you know, as best we could.

05:02
And ultimately he called us aside and he said, you know, I like you guys. You got balls. He said, you’re going out with me tonight. And so he ended up taking us to his mansion and we went in his wine cellar. had it catered and we drank and ate and everything. And then he gave us all a euro rail passes. So we got free passes to travel on the euro rail all around Europe. So we extended our spring break like an extra two weeks and just traveled all over Europe. So yeah, I lived over there for six months. It was a wild experience and a wouldn’t trade it for the world.

05:32
Wow. Shit. So moral of the story to everybody listening, don’t go out and get hammered the night before, but be ballsy and honest, right? Is that kind of where we’re headed with that? I mean, honestly, was a, uh we, we, we called it on the fly. It was an audible. Uh, we got up there and we just, we just kind of said, you know what we’re going to, I’m just going to let the honest to God truth here rip and see what happens. And, and, and it worked out for us, you know, but it was, uh, it was a great experience, you know, something that really taught me a lot about myself and

06:00
Obviously being out of America for a while and getting some perspective was really important as well. That’s a key thing. I want to touch on that before we get to the Edge of Leadership Academy and like how you got there and all, because I think a lot of people need to get maybe just even out of their own town. Like there are a lot of people, like I mentioned to you before we hit record, I’m from Delco and you’re like, Oh, I’ve got buddies from Delco. I’m sure some of your buddies still live in Delco.

06:26
And that’s nothing against them, but there are a lot of people that are like townies in a sense, no matter where you’re from. It’s from Delco or some small little town in Kansas or some place in Orange County. have no idea what goes through people’s minds, how they’re just like, I have to stay here for the rest of my life and never travel outside of this. But being able to live somewhere, even for a few weeks in another part of the country or a totally different country is crucial, I think.

06:56
So you spent six months over in Europe. I haven’t been to Prague. I’ve been to different parts of Europe, but I’ve spent at most two, three weeks on different trips. And that’s sometimes on the cusp of like not enough time to really get into it and get acclimated. Like you’ve got to spend a few months. Like I’ve got a friend who’s a nomad who’s like, if you’re really going to do it, you need to spend.

07:20
at least three to six weeks in a place so you can just get into the habit of what does it look like when you wake up and go to the cafe, when you go to the grocery store, you get into a routine and a rhythm. So what did that look like for you looking back at it now? Because it sounds like a lot of it was just like party mania, but being in a different country and having to get used to all that. Yeah, it was it was really different, man, because you realize how quickly like one you realize people are people, right? No matter where you go, people are people.

07:51
Um, but you also realize how superficial and, um, you know, how surface level a lot of the United States culture is and, how, um, you know, we are not the center of the world, right? And even though we are raised to think that we are. And so being around the history and getting connected to things that were around, you know, at the beginning of time, right. It is just completely different.

08:20
Um, you know, and so I think it gave me so much perspective and it gave me, um, a deeper understanding of myself to just being somewhere where nobody speaks a language and having to figure it out. Right. And especially at that age, like 18 to 22, you know, you’re a knucklehead, you’re, figuring it out yourself. Um, and so to be over there by yourself and, for me, I wasn’t by myself. I was with five of my friends, but you know, if something went wrong, it was on us. There was no one to come in to save us. And I think that was the first time in any of our lives.

08:47
that we had to navigate situations and it’s like you can’t call mom because you literally at that point this was before like international calling. So we didn’t have cell phones like it was just you have like a little bit because they were called Vodafone. They were like this big and they only did like we can only call each other. Right. So it’s you just had to figure it out man. And I think there’s so much um that goes into that that helps you as a human and helps you kind of come to terms with some things and spend some time.

09:15
you know, thinking and some time alone and like I lived all over the country after that because I was able to get into college strength and conditioning and be a college coach. so every time I’ve gotten the opportunity to live somewhere different and live in a different place and really take in the culture, it just gives you a deeper appreciation for things, but it also gives you a deeper appreciation for home, you know, and I’m able to look at my small town in central PA now and say, you know, there’s a lot of things that I’m proud of that I’m from there. And there’s a lot of things about me that that place gave me.

09:45
But there’s also a lot of things that I don’t want and there’s a lot of things that I do want to do differently and there’s a lot of things that I look at and I see that are wrong with my town and with my area and you know in some sense is my country right and so I think you need that you have to get out and be able to see the forest through the trees and see the whole world and so I always urge people if there’s an opportunity to travel live somewhere else like go do it.

10:09
What an important thing too. We are taught that we are the number one country. We deserve to be the best in every single thing. We’re like entitled shitty little fucking kids at times. And there’s such privilege in that as well. I mean, even when you think of like the racism within the country and the privilege that we have at times, um, like I’ve had conversations with people, even family members, or I’m like, I remember saying to people, like, I don’t really see color. And I’m like, what a fucking white privilege thing for me to say.

10:38
It’s because I could not see that. But to understand that we are not the only ones and that there’s such diversity and there needs to be equality throughout it, it just opens up your eyes when you’re in a different country and you are of the minority. Sometimes there are countries you can go to where you’re like kind of attacked in good or bad ways for being American. Like people will hear your accent, they’re like, oh my God, you’re American, blah, blah, blah. And other times they’re like, fuck that guy.

11:07
Fuck them. They think they’re the best in the world. And you’re like, holy shit. And you feel what that feels like. And for being in a small town and then getting outside of that and being able to move around, that’s crucial. So I don’t want to keep preaching about it, but I think that’s a big thing for people to understand. Like you’ve got to actually be able to move around and understand other people’s perspectives as well. So how do you feel that has actually helped you in not only the career that you’ve had, but the business that you have right now?

11:38
ah I mean, I think it kind of set the stage because when I came back, I grew up a lot. When I came back, my whole life kind of shifted and I went in a different direction and a much more positive direction than I was before I went over there. uh And so I think it really set the stage for who I am now getting out and seeing that there’s more to life. Because up to that point, man, I had just been a football player.

12:02
Like I grew up in, I tell people it’s like Friday night lights. If you dropped it in Pennsylvania, like I grew up in a town that it’s God family football. Like that’s what people preach. And so, you know, to, to get out and shed that identity, um, and be able to say like, okay, no, not only am I Kitsch the football player, but I’m also David. I’m also the student. I’m also this, I’m also interested in psychology. I’m also interested in these things. And so it really set the stage for who I would become later in life.

12:29
ah And again, I think just that ability to learn to connect with people from different areas, different ethnicities, different cultures, all that stuff was really important, you know, and obviously being somebody that’s biracial and somebody that grew up, you know, African American in a predominantly white area. uh It just furthered my ability to be kind of a social chameleon and be able to get along with people of different creeds and, you know, all walks of life. And I think, you know, if I didn’t have those experiences.

12:57
I wouldn’t be who I was as a coach and I wouldn’t be who I am now as a business owner. I’d love to talk more about that and there are some ways I say this lovingly and jokingly, I am ultra white in certain ways because I am a Mick. My last name is McGowan. I’m Scottish, Irish and English and like this is probably not as red as it actually really is. But there’s a lot of red and gray in here. uh

13:25
And I love to be able to get into that sort of stuff. Like I had mentioned just a few minutes ago, being able to understand that there’s that privilege takes you seeing and being self-aware of that. But it’s not always what most people see just like the whole American thing where you go to some other country and you’re like, oh, I’m fucking American. Everybody should bow down to me. It’s like, no, most of the world kind of hates us because of that egotistical bullshit fucking attitude. So talk to me a bit about that being biracial and

13:54
trying to see both sides of it, and did you feel pushed on one side or the other or like kind of take that and run with it a bit? It was interesting, man. It was an interesting childhood. like I never met my biological father. So my dad, my father’s African-American, my mom’s Never met my biological father. So was raised in a white household and we never shied away from it. Like it wasn’t like it was a secret that I was black. Like, I mean.

14:21
obviously, if you look at me like, know, so the secret wouldn’t have lasted very long. But, ah you know, it was never something that we shied away from, but it was also nothing. It was something that I wasn’t really exposed to because I was raised in a white area. You know, the area that I was raised in was predominantly white. Now, my mom did a great job from a young age of like exposing me to black culture ah and trying to make sure that I had those those influences as best as she could. uh

14:50
you know, so whether it was making sure that I read things like Malcolm X and, you know, Martin Luther King and Harriet Tubman and all, like I was consistently, my mom was making sure that I had some grasp of that side. You know, but again, there was only so much she could do as a white female in a white area. Like, what are you, what are you going to do? You know? And, um, so yeah, it was kind of an odd dynamic growing up. I, I, like I said, was in a predominantly white area. I think there was only four African-American kids on the football team. Um, and so.

15:20
you know that was interesting and you know not that the area was I don’t want to say it’s backwards but but it’s definitely a little bit older in times and so I think there was a certain feeling of you know you’re different like it was it was definitely there that I was different uh but because I was a football player I think I had it easier than some of maybe the other minority kids because I think football kind of bridged that gap for me and so I was welcomed into a lot of families and and you know

15:49
just relationships and the culture of the town because people knew who I was because I played ball. um But yeah, I think there was always kind of this in between feeling for me. I don’t think I really got comfortable with my quote unquote and I hate to even say it this way, but but the black part of my identity and the African American part of my identity. I don’t think I really felt like I had a say in African American things and being able to say, know, I am black or I have an opinion about this.

16:19
Because I wasn’t raised around black people and so I think it took me a long time You know to really come to terms with that and even like when I got to college That was the most diversity I’d ever seen and the university I went to was not extremely diverse But it was more diverse than my high school You know and then as I got into coaching and I got more around it and I came into my own as a man And I was able to explore things like that’s when I think I really got comfortable with like I’ve always identified as an african-american man, but

16:47
I think I didn’t really, really embrace that and get really comfortable in it until much later. Wow. Such an interesting thing to be witnessed to both of those and understand from both sides of race, but also understanding that you had privilege of like, I play ball. I’m able to get into these different relationships or friendships or get welcomed into these homes and you’re just not get out of trouble. Let’s call it what it was. Yeah, got, got out of trouble. You know, there was things that I pulled that like,

17:17
If it was another kid with my same skin tone, I don’t know that it would have ended that way. You know, but the people in the town knew they needed me on Friday night.

17:28
That’s tough. That’s got to be tough. You know, how do you manage your mindset through that now knowing that was the reason why you got out of certain things and that there are other like I keep thinking of like the show. This is us how even Randall had talked about how he walks into a store and knows that the clerks looking at him and he’s he makes millions of dollars or whatever. And like that is just the thing that they have to deal with. I don’t really have to deal with that.

17:57
Sometimes I’ll walk into a store and I’m like, I don’t fucking want to talk to anybody. So just please don’t even look at me. Like I’m totally fine. Yeah. Just looking, you know, I don’t have to worry about, well, are they, are they concerned of me? And if you were kind of on both sides of the fence of that and knowing that you had more of that privilege, there are people that don’t and they don’t know like that could walk outside. I could just get fucking shot. That’s gotta be terrifying. So how did you manage your mindset through knowing that you had a bit of that privilege, but also

18:25
that you could have been on that other side of it? um Man, I don’t know that I was aware of it. You know, I really don’t. Like, think it was something I learned more as I got older. um There were definitely instances where, you know, I encountered some racism. And again, man, it pales in comparison to what other people have gone through. And it was something that I said.

18:50
You know, openly when when everything happened right at the beginning of pandemic with George Floyd and the social justice movement and everything really popped off. I remember I was coaching at Georgia Southern University at the time and I sat down with my one of my coworkers who was also a black man. I said, you know, what are we going to say about this? Like we have to say something. We can’t not say anything. And, you know, I think, you know, what I said at that time was that, you know, I how people were always asking me, right, how do you feel? Like that was the big question. Like, how do you feel? And it’s like,

19:20
I feel lucky that I never encountered anything to that extent. I feel sad that those things go on. I feel blessed that I was surrounded by a family that loved me and a family that supported both sides of my identity and who I was and what I was. um

19:37
And so, know, I don’t know that I really ever did manage my mindset, so to say. think I just, you know, went through it. And now as I get older, and especially as I got through coaching, and had the opportunity to impact young people, and 18 to 22 year olds, and even high schoolers at times, like, I think that there’s a responsibility. I think I have a responsibility as somebody who had an opportunity, as somebody who had, you know, certain guardrails in place in my life to be able to help me to be successful. um

20:05
you know, think it’s it’s my responsibility to continue to impact as many people as I can and my responsibility to continue to show young men and young women, you know, that maybe are of color or are of some minority doesn’t have to be of color, but maybe they’re just some other minority population, whatever that may be. um You know that there are opportunities and you can do it and you don’t have to be a statistic and there are ways out. um And that was always really important for me was being able to show

20:35
you know some of my african-american athletes and like i said even the female athletes and some of the other minority populations um

20:42
that you know anybody can become a leader anybody can be what they want to be you know now again am i gonna sit here and say hey i made it out of the hood and and i i overcame these things no absolutely not my life was not an a and e special um it was not what you see on the on the discovery channel you know it was were there things that i saw absolutely i overcame you know my family there was addiction issues my stepfather was a heroin addict you know i was raised in a single-parent household so yeah i overcame some things um but more importantly i found opportunities right and i worked my ass off

21:12
to get to where I am. And so now it’s my responsibility to pay that forward to anybody of any creed or any ethnicity, any background. Like I just have very little empathy for, you know, I can’t do it. You know, I just don’t believe that. Like, like I think you can. You just you got to find a way. Yeah.

21:33
It’s almost like the victim mentality at that point, too, where a lot of people just be like, fuck, I can’t do it. And they just don’t want to. And some people feel they’re broken at that point. Typically, they’re not. They’re just they’re blocked. And there’s something that’s in there. And there’s some trauma that’s holding them back from that. And I appreciate the candor. Like, it wasn’t an A &E special. I didn’t go through all this craziness. You dealt with craziness. But that’s a power of self-awareness to be able to understand that there’s that. But that doesn’t negate what you’ve actually gone through.

22:02
It doesn’t change what you’ve gone through. You’ve mentioned responsibility.

22:06
Yeah, yeah, pain’s not a pissing contest, right? Like I always say that to people. It’s not my pain versus your pain. Like if we’re both hungry, it doesn’t make you less hungry. Like you know what I’m saying? Like we both went through things. It’s all based on your experiences. And I’ve been around a lot of people that have made it out of really tough situations and become really, really successful and happy in life. You know, and so I think it’s all relative, man. I think you got to be able to look at your pain. And I tell people a lot of times like,

22:36
Don’t rush through the storm. Don’t rush through the storm. Don’t miss the lessons. There’s so many things that trauma offers us that, yeah, they are tough at the time. But there’s a lot of lessons that the world offers us if you’re willing to look and you’re willing to sit in that discomfort of revisiting those ideas and those memories and things like that and really look back on that stuff and learn and grow from it. I love that. Don’t rush through the storm specifically of trauma. uh

23:04
I’ve recently read a book where the body keeps a score about trauma. And there are certain things like I’ve even noticed within myself. I’ve had traumatic experiences throughout life where there are things that’ll just come up and I’m like, fuck, I didn’t mean for that to come up, but my body just like regurgitates it, just spits the thing up. And then being able to do the work to be able to actually go through that, put yourself in that spot to be able to understand it. So what does that look like for you? And are there some ways that you’ve worked through that?

23:29
Yeah, man, I’ve done a lot of work on myself, dude. I mean, I’ve been in therapy for years. um

23:35
You know, it took kind of a rude awakening for me to go to therapy So I guess we can kind of go down that rabbit hole we could back up. Let’s go that story. So um Long story short, I’ve always kind of been this quote-unquote high achiever. Like I’ve always wanted to be successful I’ve always wanted to do certain things and so was fortunate to have a good career in coaching and have that build up But what I never wanted to admit was that my past always had one hand on the steering wheel Meaning the fact that I didn’t know my father the the childhood traumas that I did experience the things that I did

24:05
um I never wanted to admit that those things were still part of me and that those things were still in my life. I never talked about them. I never talked about that stuff with my family. I never talked about that stuff with anybody in my life. m The first 12 years of my life, if you ask any of my friends, is a mystery. They don’t really know. Nobody really knows. was like I just showed up at 12 years old and the first 12 years never happened. so, long story short, basically what happened was the pandemic hit and I started my new business. I started Edge Leadership Academy.

24:35
me. I quit my job at a division one school coaching, walked away. ah And I started this business and it became successful pretty quickly. And so within six months I was making money and I was like, okay, you know, me being me, I, didn’t know this at the time, but I linked myself worth to my achievements. And so it was like, if I achieve more than people will love me and people will care about me more and I’ll feel more worthy. And so I did it and I went out and I started a second business and I launched the gym.

25:05
and it was 22,000 square feet facility, it was huge, batting cages, the whole nine, I mean it was beautiful, it great facility. And I launched it and it took so much out of me. It took so much out of me. And in the meantime, so I have my business, my Edge Leadership Academy, I have the gym, I’m going to school to get my PhD in psychology, so I’m taking psychology classes. I had just released my first book, I was working on my second book, and all this is going on at the same time.

25:33
And I remember I was with my girlfriend.

25:36
And we were driving back from Georgia. We went down to Georgia where I used to live. She got the rest of her stuff out of our old house and we were moving back to Pennsylvania. And so we’re driving up and I just started having panic attacks. I didn’t know what they were at the time. I had no idea what it was. I thought I was dying. um But I started having panic attacks and like to the point where like I pulled over like every couple of miles I was getting out of the car and like literally like dropping to the ground. Like I didn’t know what was going on with me. And you know, somebody

26:06
that their whole life was predicated on strength that was really shocked me to my core and it shook me and I didn’t know what to do and So I got back to PA and they continued, you know continued to have panic attacks I would get to the gym I freak out I go to the bathroom and throw up and like it was just wild and I’m like man what is going on with me um and so Eventually, I gave in and I was like I gotta I gotta go find out what this is I start going to doctors going to specialists all this stuff I’m doing EKG’s they’re doing sleep studies on me. They’re doing all

26:36
this stuff trying to figure out what it is and every time somebody would say it was in my head I would get so mad and I’m like no it’s not like it’s it’s not that you know I don’t have mental health issues and and I would never and not mean you know and next thing I knew man I slipped into this depression and about six months dude I I mean my girlfriend would get up for work in the morning I’d get up with her and then when she would leave she thought I was going to work I would go back to bed till like one o’clock in the afternoon and I just didn’t want to leave my house and I didn’t want

27:05
to leave my bed and you know so eventually it got to the point where I was like alright I have to try therapy like I don’t know what else to do like I’m broken right now and this isn’t working and I’m about to lose everything and so started going to therapy and I’ve been working on myself you know in that regard for for three years but even prior to all of that man and this is what I tell people like

27:27
even prior to all of that, had done so much work otherwise. I’ve read, was meditating, I was doing all these other things. And so it’s like, you know, you have to at some point face the demon that you don’t want to face. Right. And that’s what it was. I had to sit down and

27:44
I was trying to outrun something that I couldn’t outrun and I was trying to fill internal wounds with external things and that doesn’t work and you know and that’s what it was and the pandemic forced me to slow down and I think it did with a lot of people right and when you can’t outrun your thoughts anymore it’s just you and them

28:04
That’s when everything comes bubbling up, right? So, you know, those are the those are some of the things that I went through. I mean, it took me, you know, six months to get back on my feet, get back to who I was. And and, uh you know, I still struggle with anxiety at times. I still struggle with some of that stuff. There’s still days where it’s like, you know, depression comes roaring back. But, um you know, I’ve chosen to look at it as a gift. Right. And it’s it’s not it’s not why me. It’s why not me. Right. I’m built for this stuff. I’m built for adversity. I can share my story.

28:34
or with other people I can help people through theirs. And so, you know, everybody goes through their war, man. Like I said, pain is not a pissing contest. Big fan of that, I’m gonna use that. I think it’s such a crucial thing, man, where there are a lot of people that look for the quick fix, the easy fix. And, you know, we can blame social media, we can blame a bunch of bullshit, we can blame whatever.

28:59
but everybody wants to just get the thing fixed. Like I just want to not deal with this anymore. And especially when it comes to trauma, can’t you can’t just mindset your fucking way through it. You can’t just put bandages over it. You actually have to get to the core of it and fucking process through it and work through it. And we could get into the details of what you’d gone through and like the things that work for you. But I don’t want to go down that path because I want to hover on the idea of

29:29
There are so many different ways that you can go about it, being able to go through the trauma, but being able to get to the point. Whoever’s listening, who’s ever in that spot that’s like, wow, I read the books, I’ve done these things, I’ve gone to talk therapy, and I’ve tried different things, like, you have to get to the point where you’ve found the thing that actually works for you. Like, some people find that EMDR really works for them. Some people are like, this is weird, my eyes are just going back and forth. Other people are like, well, talk therapy is what really worked for me.

29:57
Some people, don’t give a fuck about talking at all because it’s just words at that point. It’s a matter of figuring out the thing that actually works for you, but you have to go through the process of getting to the root of it. If not, you saw what happened. I had a situation that happened to me in I think 2018 or 19 where I had a rash from the back of my knees all the way up to my cheeks. Like a just full body rash.

30:24
And remember going to like five or six different dermatologists when I could actually get the fuck out of my house. And they were like, well, whatever you ate, don’t eat it again. Like, all right. So I’m going to forget that you’re an asshole. Um, and I told people, I think it might be a mental thing. And they were like, no, no, no, no. Like I literally had two dermatologists. They’re like, no way. No, it’s definitely some allergic reaction or something. But I took it as I needed to slow down and needed to work through the traumas that I actually wasn’t talking about.

30:53
I was suicidal six months, maybe eight months before that and needed to work through that shit. So you’ve experienced that too, where you have to go back through and work through the traumas. But what do you do now on a daily basis from a discipline perspective to make sure that you’re actively working on that and going deeper into the processing when you need to? Oh dude, I have a stack. I have a stack called my mental health stack. It’s my non-negotiables. ah You know, and especially as an entrepreneur now, like

31:22
I have to do those things because they not only protect me, but they protect my business, they protect my relationships, they protect my whole family. They protect everybody because I’m not fun to be around when I’m like that. And I’m no good to anybody. When I go into that place, because I kind of go in waves and I’m sure you can recognize your own waves, The first thing that happens to me is I start cutting people off. And I go in work and I go insulated. And I don’t want anything to do with the outside world, right? And so I have to do things on a daily basis

31:52
that keep me somewhat level so that I can continue to pour into the world and try and give the value and the gifts that I have and give them to other people. And so I start bright and early, man. I’m a big morning routine person. I know some people like it. Some people hate it. I like it for the reason that I think of it as a launch sequence. Right. So if you look at Cape Canaveral and what used to be NASA, I guess it’s SpaceX now, whatever, when they send a rocket into the stratosphere, they don’t just open it and hit a big red button and say, go.

32:22
It’s turn this system on turn this system on turn this system on and I think our lives have to be like that, right? So every morning I wake up and I meditate as soon as I get out of bed first thing get out of bed Drink water go meditate first thing right because I don’t want to deal with the world You wouldn’t go to war without putting your armor on So why don’t we put our emotional armor on before we go out and deal with the world, right? Instead what do we do? We grab our phones We dive right in like no man check in with yourself before you check in with the world. So the first thing I

32:52
do in the morning, wake up, get my water, I meditate, then from there I journal. And the journal prompt, some days it’s whatever I need to get out. Sometimes it’s just things that I need that are bubbling up that I need to get them out on paper. Sometimes it’s a journal prompt from a book or something that I’ve read, whatever. But I write and then I read something and then I try and move, right? So I exercise in some way, whether it’s old school training, I still like to lift weights, I still bang even though I’m a retired coach and a retired power lifter.

33:22
like to get in there and move. So I get some sort of movement, right? So I always think about it like I want to connect with myself. I want to create, I want to consume, and I want to move like those. That’s my launch sequence. I have to do those things. ah And those things on my calendar are non-negotiable. Like my team that I work with now, even though they have access to making changes to my calendar and things like that, they know that my morning block is non-negotiable. Don’t touch it. The other thing that’s non-negotiable on my time schedule is my

33:52
therapy time. I still go to therapy every single week. That’s a non-negotiable. I don’t cancel. I don’t move it. It’s there for a reason and it has to stay there. Right. And so those are some of the things that I do. Um, I have a nighttime routine as well, which is just, you know, as simple as getting off my phone, ah um, and plugging my phone in across the room. Like I don’t, I try and my brother just made fun of me for he’s like, dude, you live your life on, do not disturb. And I’m like, I really do oh disturb all the time, you know, because I just, it’s, how I function man.

34:21
ah So yeah, I think you have to find what works for you though, you know There’s no right stack and I tell people this too when they ask me like what’s your morning routine? I’m like, it’s my morning routine. It works for me It doesn’t necessarily mean that it will work for you and I have other things that I can use and Plug in when I need to right like if I’m really spinning out. I know a cold shower helps me So I’ll take a cold shower I’ll do a cold plunge or what you know Whatever I have access to at the time like you have to figure out what your stack is and what works for your specific instance

34:51
and your specific, you know, case. Like, it just depends on you. Yeah. It’s great point. uh And that kind of goes back to what we were talking about, too. Like, finding the things and figuring those things out. But it takes you doing the different things and trying it. Like, sometimes people will be like, I don’t want a journal. Fuck that. It’s like, just try it. If you don’t like it, great. You knew. I say, I joke about it now, like…

35:17
If you look at my phone, I have like a habit tracker, right? And you can see all the times that I’ve tried to do certain things and they didn’t stick, right? And I’m okay with that. Like, all right, hey, this doesn’t work for me. This isn’t, this isn’t my thing. It might be your thing, not my thing. All right. I got to find what worked for me. And even within like meditation, people say, Oh, I don’t, can’t meditate. Well, have you tried different types? Cause there’s different like meditation is a very blanket term. There’s a lot of different types, know, and now I’m at the point where like I’ve meditated every day for probably two and a half, three years. So it’s like,

35:47
I now know what type of meditation I want to do what type of meditation do I need today? Do I need something to slow me down and slow my breath down? Do I need a visualization? Do I need something where I’m just grounding myself? Like what do I need? Do I need to do a more intense breath work? Like what is it? You know, and so I think it’s it’s going deep down that right rabbit hole and trying different things You don’t figure out what the hell works for you and what what fits within your schedule? Because the other reality is like people got kids people got a

36:17
like I get it, know, figure out what fits your schedule. But if you’re not taking care of you, who, you know, how you’re not going to be any good to anybody, Yeah. Somebody said on, I think one of my podcast episodes, maybe early on, like when you’re on an airplane, they tell you, got to put your mask on first before you put anybody else’s on. And it’s like, what a stupidly simple, beautiful thing. Like you have to be able to do that first or

36:44
you’re gonna die and you’re not gonna be able to help anybody with anything. But along the lines of meditation, there are a lot of people, I hear people that are like, I can’t meditate or I’ve tried meditating and say, well, trying different things. There are also ways that you go about life that are sometimes meditative that you may not really think about, but then you do it. Like I brought up on a recent episode with somebody I was like, I found out that going through my sports cards and memorabilia is meditative for me.

37:11
just even going through cards and putting them in penny sleeves or top loaders or something. There are times where I’m doing it and I’m meditating and just moving through it. But you can do that in different situations. Some people need to just go outside and walk. like you said, figuring out what your stack is, it’s really important. But I think something that’s also important to that, and I’d like to get your thoughts on this, your stack can change over the course of time. Your stack doesn’t always have to be this. Like what you tell me today,

37:37
Dude, we may talk in two years and be like, look, I’ve changed things up because you grew as a person, but it’s that evolution. Like we’re like science projects in a sense. Yeah. Yeah. And as you, as you work through your stuff and as you work through, so let me, let me kind of make it a little bit more practical. When I first started all of this because of everything that was going on in my own life, a lot of it was focused on

38:01
coming to terms with my past. A lot of it was focused on activities and things within my stack that allowed me to process and focus and sit face to face with those things from my past. Now, because I’ve come to terms with a lot of those things, and I’ve now seen the positive benefits on a lot of my stack now is focused on the future. It’s focused on positive things. It’s focused on visualization of what I want. It’s focused on manifestation of the feelings and the vibes and the energy that I want to put into the world. Not that I’m some hippie,

38:31
But like setting myself in the right frame of mind to go out and deliver value to people, you know, and so as much as meditation can be a tool for me to battle off an anxiety attack and to help me from slipping into a depression, it’s also a tool for me to get psyched up, to go out on stage in front of 5000 people and rock the shit out of a stage like it’s the same. You know I mean? It’s a tool, but it’s a different version of that tool. Right. So that’s why think it’s so important to have a toolbox that you can pull things from.

39:01
as the seasons of your life change like I’m a big proponent of having your life separated into seasons and being able to ask yourself what am I optimizing for right now? Like what’s most important to me right now? And then build a stack around that. Like, okay, this is these next four, eight, 12, 16 weeks. don’t think going on beyond 16 is too good. think you need to break it down to like 16 at most, but say I’m going to go 16 weeks. Okay. These next 16 weeks, I’m going to be optimizing for my business. I want to be a sharp.

39:31
as I possibly can in the business and I want to push this thing as far as I can. Okay, I’m going to utilize a stack and every four weeks I’m going to measure the things that I think matter and I’m going to see what outputs I’m getting from that stack. How am I as far as my empathy levels? How am I as far as my mental acuity? Am I clear? Am I focused? How’s my energy level? I up? Am I down? Am I a roller coaster? What’s going on? And then I’ll adjust from there, right? And then if I’m trying to optimize for

40:00
family, then my stack looks different, right? Because now it’s like, okay, I need to focus on being able to connect with people. I need to focus on being able to be empathetic. need to focus. I don’t need to be a sharp. I don’t need to have that edge, right? Now I need to be a little bit more loving. I need to be able to be to be compassionate. Like you got to know what you’re optimizing for in life and then use the tools that are appropriate for that. Right. And that I think changes, you know, like, and again, to take that a step further, if I’m optimizing for

40:30
Business well, then I’m gonna train a certain way. I’m gonna train it fast. I’m gonna train fast pace I’m gonna get my cardio up I’m gonna be become an entrepreneurial athlete so that I can go through those 12 hour days With great energy levels, you know If I’m training for something if I’m optimizing for something different then maybe I’ll go back to bodybuilding or would it you know? Whatever I feel like doing in the weight room like you have to know what you’re optimizing for and then build around that

40:58
So how do you take into account personality types and how people either transmute or just absorb in their traumatic experiences through the academy and when the clients that you have in the academy? Yeah. So when we work with people, the first thing that I do is I try and get people very clear on like who they are.

41:20
because I think it’s something that I didn’t know who I was for a very long time. Right. So one of the things that we do first and foremost is we write down our vision, mission and values. And I want you to get clear. And the way that I portray this is your vision is what you want at the end of your life. What do you want when it’s all said and done? Your mission is what you were put on this earth to do every single day, that if you do it repeatedly, you will eventually achieve your vision. And then your values are the things that protect you. These are the things that you would

41:50
use to rebuild your life if everything was taken away from you. And I think if you start with those things, then you kind of get a really good sense of who people are and you get a really good sense. So then I can start to build, help them build their stacks, whether it’s a performance stack, a mental health stack, a habit stack, a business stack, whatever type of activities we’re trying to, we’re trying to optimize for. Once I have that information, I can kind of get a sense of like, okay, these are the things that really anchor this person. This is what they’re trying to achieve.

42:19
Let’s go down this rabbit hole and a lot of it there’s u-turns man. There’s u-turns You get down a certain rabbit hole and you’re like, okay Maybe that’s not as important to you as you thought it was right as you start to go through the process And so a lot of it it’s all about that back and forth conversation. It’s about that connection But I think it all starts with knowing who you are who you’re not and the non-negotiables in your life You know, what are the things that you fight for right? So if I say, know, what’s your vision? Right. It’s it’s when I look at I say, okay. Well my vision in life

42:49
is to leave a legacy for my family to be proud of. That’s my number one goal in life. And so that impacts every single decision that I make. Everything that I do is about that. And then, OK, so how am going achieve that? Well, my mission on a daily basis is to inspire the best version of whoever I’m around. I want to inspire greatness in as many people as I possibly can in whatever form they’re capable of. And then, OK, so if I do that day after day after day, then I’m going to achieve my vision.

43:19
I’ll use I ask myself if somebody came in my life and they said okay kids you’re no longer an author you’re no longer a coach you’re no longer a business owner you’re no longer a PhD candidate they took everything away from me how would I rebuild what are the things that I would use to protect myself on the trail to getting that vision right so I start with honesty I want to be honest 100 % of the time I tell people that when I first meet them I look people in the eyes and I will never lie to you and I genuinely mean that

43:45
You know, I want to be caring. want people to know that I genuinely care about them. I want to pour as much as I can into the world. All right. I’m driven. I don’t want to be outworked. That’s between me and me. Right. I don’t want to be outworked. Okay. And then lastly, I’m committed to growth. I want to be the best version of myself in as many areas as I possibly can. I tell people, I live my life chasing the answer to a question that most people spend their lives running away from. And that’s what would it look like if you went all in. Right. So I have those values that protect me.

44:15
Now I know my vision my mission and my values and the way that I use this in my meditation and in my mindfulness stack is to remind myself right if I die That’s what I want the first person at my funeral to stand up and say I want them to say Kich left a legacy for his family to be proud of He inspired greatness and everybody came across. He was honest. He was caring. He was driven. He was committed to growth Right and so that’s why I start with that with our clients because that’s how powerful that sentence can be it can literally you’ll never overthink

44:45
think another decision in your life because everything is very simple. And that’s why I asked about the personality types and even the traumas, understanding how people relate to those things and getting clear on what it is that they are about can be really difficult for people because they’ve calloused over a lot of shit. They have these deep traumas. And do you guys get into that sort of stuff to be able to work with those people that are maybe just like, man, I want to do it, but I’m fucking blocked. How do I get through it?

45:12
Yeah, if I’m working with somebody one on one, man, I will go down any rabbit hole you want. I’ll get deep and dark and in the trenches and we can talk through anything. We don’t get to do it as much in like our group sessions, obviously, or some of the corporate sessions that we do. But if I’m working with a one on one client, absolutely, man, I want to dive into that stuff because here’s the beautiful part about it is if you look at superheroes, right? Every superhero has got a trauma. Every superhero has got an origin story. Every villain has an origin story too. And it’s usually similar to a

45:42
superhero right and so I tell a lot of people a of times you have the option to decide are you gonna be the hero of the story or the villain okay the world hurt me and then you have two choices you’re either gonna say the world hurt me so I’m gonna hurt the world or the world hurt me so I’m never gonna let the world hurt other people right those are your two choices then that decides the trajectory that you’re gonna go on and so I yeah I love to dive into that stuff with people

46:09
That’s important, man, especially to be able to live in the trenches. You know, there are… I’m gonna put this in the nicest fucking way I can, I guess. There are a lot of coaches that like coach the coaches and the fucking snake oil salesman bullshit. And they just live in like the surface-y level where it’s like, I’ve even had people ask me like, well, if you just talk about mindset, do you just mindset your way through things? I’m like, fucking no. There’s no way to just mindset your way through shit, but your mind has to be a part of it.

46:38
but you’ve got to tie the organic being with your mind and your soul and you have to get to the fucking deep shit and you got to sit in that shit. My partner often says that there are times where she’ll just sit in the deep end and a lot of people can’t handle that. She’ll just sit down there.

46:53
And I’ve even asked jokingly, like, well, how do you breathe down there? She’s like, sometimes if I don’t, it makes it better. So or, you know, something like that. No, dude, it being able to sit there. It’s it’s my I had a mentor that used to tell me all the time, sit in the pressure and let it do its work. If you get out prematurely, then it was for nothing.

47:11
Right. And so I think about that with like traumas and dealing with things and going back in my own life. Like you sit in it and you let it be uncomfortable. Everything. You don’t have to solve everything. And that’s what we try and do as a society. We want to solve it so quickly and we just want to breeze over. We want to say, okay, it was this right. was that. All right. No, stop. Sit in it for a second and get past the, initial emotional dump and then let your logical brain turn back on because then you’ll be able to appreciate it for what it was.

47:41
So even at surface level is like, this was a big thing that I had, ah I think I talked about it probably like six months ago.

47:48
There’s a big thing on social media about toxicity and everybody’s a narcissist and this and that and everything else. I’m like, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let’s slow down for a second. How many people here are actually assessing what they brought to the table and actually assessing what they brought to certain social relationships? Maybe you brought those traits out in somebody else. Maybe they were narcissistic, but maybe you enhanced it. Right. Are you doing that work on yourself and you can’t do that if you’re not willing?

48:18
to sit in front of the mirror for a couple seconds and get past the uncomfortable cognitive dissonance of this is not how I want to see myself. How you want to see yourself is irrelevant if it’s not the truth. doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. So just sit down for a second, say, okay, hey, look, this is going to suck. This is really going to be uncomfortable. Right? Let’s talk about this. You think, I mean, and I say this to my clients a lot too. It’s Tuesday morning. I got a day full of shit. You think at Tuesday at 9 a.m. I want to

48:48
dig into my fucking daddy issues with my therapist. Like no man, I’m I gotta close deals the rest of the day. I gotta try and be sharp. But you know what? I have to do it because it makes me better because it makes me feel better because it makes me a better human because it makes me a better businessman because it makes me a better brother, a better son, a better friend, a better all these things. Right. So you have to just look at it and say, okay, this is going to be uncomfortable, but I’m so committed to the version of myself that I’m going to be on the other side of this that I’m just going to go through it.

49:18
And to think about the self-awareness of the cognitive dissonance and the bias that you have where you’re like, I don’t want to see myself like that. Who the fuck cares? Like just sit in it and work through it. And that is, that’s good shit. So along those lines, Kitch, what’s that one piece of advice you’d give somebody on their path towards self mastery?

49:43
I think I said it earlier, you know, but like don’t skip the storms.

49:47
You don’t skip the storms. Like, don’t fast forward through that stuff. Own your story. Pick up the pen. You know, all those cliche things. And then the other piece is just remember that things come in threes, right? So just because you think you’ve moved past something doesn’t mean you get to forget the lesson, right? I’m a firm believer that whether you call it the universe or whatever, and again, I’m not a hippie. I promise I’m not. I know I sound hippie on this episode, but I’m not. All right, but I do believe in certain things. And I think that the universe operates in sets of threes.

50:17
I believe that when you think you’re doing something right when you you’re gonna respond a certain way to a certain situation And you do it the first time the situation is gonna be very straightforward, right? So if you’re trying to overcome your anger issues It’s gonna be somebody’s gonna cut you off in traffic and you’re gonna have you’re gonna stop yourself from getting pissed off, right? Good for you. Okay, good. Now what do most people say at that point? I’m healed. I did it. I’m no longer angry, right? No, that’s not that’s not the way it works So what’s happen is you’re gonna get a second?

50:47
situation. It’s going to be a little bit more gray, right? And it’s going to take a little bit more for you to pull the lesson out of it. And it’s the universe testing you to see if it’s actually who you are, right? And if you pass that second test, then you’re going to get a third one that’s completely different. And it’s going to test your ability to take the lessons from that and your ability to emotionally regulate and apply it to a completely different context. And if you can do that, then you’re growing, then you’re healing. Now it’s part of your, now it’s part of your

51:17
character. Right. So I think for people just just don’t learn something once or do something once and then put it away. Like hold on to it and then apply it to different areas of your life and you’ll watch how much you grow man. So you know I know that was kind of a long-winded answer to one thing I would tell people but that’s that’s definitely it. I love it man. I think it’s powerful stuff and we’ve gone through a lot of stuff on the episode. I think we could probably just sit here and

51:45
talk for hours and hours and hours. And I always appreciate when I have those conversations. oh Man, I appreciate you being on, getting real and deep and honest and being able to talk about all this. So let’s talk a little bit about the business. Tell us before I let you go, where can people find you? Where can they connect with you and all?

52:02
Yeah, man. we’re on all social medias. I’m at coach D Kitch on everything. Um, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, whatever the other ones are, tick tock reels, whatever, all of them. I’m on there. Um, we also have our website, edge, leadership academy.com. There’s some free resources on there. There’s also links on there to book us, um, the book of consultation called me, whatever it is. And again, as I said earlier, we do group stuff. We do, um, organizations. If you want us to come in and talk about leadership and culture with your teams, uh, we also do a lot of

52:32
one-on-one coaching. really passionate about being able to do that. We also have a mentorship group that will be opening up, I believe, in about three or four more weeks here. That’s called The Table, so we run that only twice a year. So this will be our second time this year running it. That’s a mentorship group with a 15-person cohort. We go through all types of high-performance skills and different one-on-one things, but you’re guaranteed with that every week. I do a live call. You’ll also get an individual call. It’s a really cool community of people. ah And then from there,

53:02
I’m trying to do there’s anything else. I mean, that’s pretty much it. We have our books online. You can get links to those on the website. I’m not going to push product. Um, you know, so if you’re interested in that stuff, please reach out to me. Um, and other than that, man, I appreciate you having me on. Absolutely dude. It was great having you on. Thank you so much for your time and, uh, keep up the great work, man. Thanks brother.