In this episode, Nick explores how to embrace change and overcome the fear of the unknown through self-awareness, mindset shifts, and incremental actions. He dives into practical insights on navigating life’s inevitable changes with curiosity and resilience.

What to listen for:

“We don’t know where we’re going to go. We don’t know what’s going to happen. But we do know that we’ve done this work to be able to say, well, this is the thing that feels off for me.”

“The change that you’re going through is inevitable. Change is just happening. And how you’re going through those changes really depends on what you do with it.”

About Nick McGowan

I’m Nick McGowan, an entrepreneur, podcaster, and mental health advocate, and I’ve been on a 20+ year journey of personal development, learning to master my mindset, emotions, and the art of living with purpose.

As a Mindset and Self-Mastery Mentor, I work with ambitious men and women who want to live their most authentic and joyous lives by helping them master their mindset, emotional awareness, and authentic communication. My mission is to empower people to lead lives that feel aligned, grounded, and truly their own.

Throughout my career, I’ve built teams, streamlined systems, and improved client experiences across SaaS, media, marketing, and personal development spaces. Whether I’m leading cross-functional projects, optimizing SEO, Podcasting, designing strategies, or guiding clients through transformation, I bring a hands-on, solution-focused approach to everything I do.

I’m also the host of The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show, where my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, challenge us, and ultimately guide us back to who we are at our core. On this show, we uncover the secret gems others have discovered through trial and error and breakthroughs, so you can fast-track your growth and master your mindset in your pursuit of self-mastery. Check out the latest episode here.

With years of podcasting and two decades of marketing experience, I’ve mastered the storytelling, interview flow, strategy, and technical production that elevate a podcast from “just content” to something truly impactful. Whether you’re a leader looking to amplify your message, a seasoned speaker and podcast host looking to sharpen your edge, or even a beginner who is wondering how to share their message, I mentor thought leaders through every step of having the conversation they’re here to have on this planet.

So, what message are you here to share?!

Resources:

Check out other episodes about change and transformation.

Are you looking for ways to better manage your daily mindset, live a happier, more fulfilled life, and pursue the depths of your soul on your path to self-mastery?

Schedule a free clarity session with Nick to see if mentoring is a good fit for you. https://tidycal.com/nickmcgowan/mindset-and-self-mastery-clarity-session

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Check out Nick’s website for more information: https://nickmcgowan.com/

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

NIck McGowan (00:03.246)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show, I want to talk about how do we embrace challenges and change and

NIck McGowan (00:19.854)
You’ll do that again.

NIck McGowan (00:27.309)
Hmm.

NIck McGowan (00:41.454)
Three, two. Hello, and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show, I want to talk about how to embrace change when we’re afraid of the unknown. There’s a lot of unknown, a lot of things that happen just throughout life that if you knew that they were going to happen, you would probably, potentially at least, change what you would have done. Let’s be real with each other. There are certain things in life that you’re like,

Man, if I knew I was gonna get to that point, if I knew this is gonna happen, I either would have done that thing sooner or I wouldn’t have done that thing at all. And I get that, but we also can’t do anything about that. And I don’t want to hear the comments or messages about, but science is saying otherwise because there is science that says that we may actually be able to change what happens in our future or even present based on how we handled things in the past and can go back to that.

That’s a whole different level of things. If we look at where we’re at now and what we can do with just our mind and our overall mindset, we want to be able to figure out what is actually happening within the change that is a disruption to us. Because if I were to come to you and say, I’m going to change how much money you make every single month, and you’re going to make 40 times that amount that you’re making, you would probably have questions, but most likely you would go, Great, I’m in.

I can accept that change totally fine. I’ll figure out what to do with the money. Like makes sense. We all would. But if I were to come to you and say this massive change is going to happen and I need you to make all these other little changes, you’re probably going to fight me on it. I know I would. Hell, I do it to myself at times. I’m pointing out that if we know that these things are going to happen and we know what the outcome is going to be, then we could potentially do something different.

But since we don’t know what exactly is going to happen, and we have no idea how the outcome is really going to turn out, life is just going to life how it life. Then what we can do is at least be okay within ourselves to be able to be in a better spot to be able to move forward with the change. I’m going to say something that is probably irritating. We’ve all heard the dumb saying of change is inevitable. The only thing you can expect is change and all that stuff. So let’s get that out of the way.

NIck McGowan (03:07.138)
There’s change. You probably changed some way today. You probably did something, or somebody else did something that changed how somebody looked at something. It’s just how life works. But those small changes, or like the big change where I’m saying I’m gonna give you loads of money, that change comes along with some sort of constraints and feelings to it, or just what you would put into it energy-wise.

Again, if I gave you a ton of money, you’d be like, don’t worry about me. I’m gonna figure out how to spend all this or to save it or do whatever I want with it. But there’s no real major hesitation to not go toward that.

There are typically hesitations to go toward how do I make this change in my business or in my relationships or in my life? Or I don’t even know what change to make. I just don’t like how things are right now. So I want to talk from that angle. Even if you know what that change is, or what has to happen, what has to change, or what has to be different in the future, let’s get back to the basics of this of any sort of change that’s happening.

To be able to understand where you’re at, where what’s going on. So there’s always the fear of the unknown because we don’t know what’s going to happen. And we can get lost in those things. There’s always the hope of what could happen. And some people can also get lost in those. It’s a balance, truly finding the balance between these, to go, I don’t really care what happens in the future. Don’t really care what happened in the past. I can only deal with what I have in front of me right now.

And making sure that we never bypass anything that we’re feeling or anything that’s coming up for us, but to be aware of it. So just like every other episode for the most part, it comes back to awareness. It’s self-awareness. If we can be aware of what’s going on and as close to what’s actually going on as possible, we can start to actually move from there.

NIck McGowan (05:11.532)
So let’s look at some moment that happened years ago that is affecting you right now. For me to ask you to pull out some random memory is not going to get us a good result. But any sort of feeling that just popped up as I pulled that up, as I said that to you, even if you don’t remember what it was, there’s still some feeling attached to it. Like, your body is feeling. I don’t want to recall this memory. There’s still some work to be done with that.

That little bit that you just had, that little hint, that little glimmer of that feeling, that’s self awareness.

Even the dumb moment you just had of, okay, duh, okay, cool. Or all right, Nick, I got it. You’re aware of you understand it. So, not to get at a dumb macro level, but I want you to really hone in on the more aware you are of the things, and you are often aware, and you are able to do something with that. By saying, even we’re often aware, a lot of us are, and most people, I would like to think, are really aware.

Because we can be focused in that moment, but then we’re just off to the next and we move on to the next thing and we forget about that thing. There’s a balance to that as well, where we’re not getting lost in the past or the future or just that one thing we moved on and that’s it. But it’s being able to actually use that skill in the moment. So here we are afraid, just fearful of the change that’s happening and really the unknown, whether that’s a small or a big change, for the most part.

This has more of a condiment a feeling of the negative change. Again, back to the money. If I were to give you a bunch of money, that’s not a negative thing. If you have some money internal problems, or there are things that come up with that, then those would be something you’d be self-aware of to do something with. So you got it. We’re all on the same page. Self-awareness is super important. And I talk about it a lot, a whole lot. So

NIck McGowan (07:17.026)
With that self-awareness, being able to understand what the change is, we want to actually be able to call it out and say, this is the change. Not just saying, I just don’t feel right at work. Or I don’t know, it just feels weird in the office. Or I don’t know what’s going on with our relationship, but yeah, I don’t know. It’ll, it’s, it’s what it is. That’s awareness. There you’re aware that there’s something that’s happening there, but we need to actually get closer to it. Like, what is it?

I’ll give you a real simple example that you probably experienced before. I’ve recently been having a hard time sleeping. some of it’s the AC in in my house is a little wonky at times and just needs to be fixed and whatever. But then there are also just some times where things have just kind of kept me awake or I’ve just popped awake, and then I realized some of it was caffeine and some of it was just there’s stuff that’s going on. But all of that that has to relate to the sleep.

Actually relates to the rest of my day. So if I feel off or groggy or irritated or something like that, yes, I can certainly chalk it up to just not getting as much sleep as I want or need and leaving it there. Or I can understand what’s actually happening underneath and why that’s happening, then to just do something about it. Make a change to it. Again, that level of self-awareness to go, yeah, I could stop at this point. I could also go a little further and go, well.

Do I do? Okay. Maybe I don’t drink coffee at three o’clock in the afternoon. Maybe I make sure I’m not reading on my phone or whatever at one o’clock in the morning. Different things that we can all do. I’ll spare you the details of what I’m going through with my sort of stuff, but those little bits and pieces of making sure that we’re hitting these marks for ourselves, we first need to be aware of those. So whatever changes that’s happening, understand and ask yourself.

What part of that is the thing that is actually scary?

NIck McGowan (09:20.556)
I was hoping that something would come up right then. I’m also hoping that originally we’re talking about the unknown. And yeah, there’s the unknown. But even when he when we ask ourselves a question of, well, what could it be? Or if I had to take a guess at what it would be, there’s an answer that comes up. The the whole goal here is to be able to get closer to what is it? What is the thing? What’s the root of it? Because if there’s a big change that’s happening at work in your office.

And let’s say you’re in leadership, maybe there’s a change that you’re thinking, I just don’t know how this is going to directly affect my team. But in reality, it might be that you don’t know if you’re gonna lose your job because you don’t know if you want to deal with this. You don’t want to be there for that change. You don’t want to deal with the bullshit with the team. But you could just as easily stop with, I don’t know if there’s gonna be a detriment to my team. I’m gonna have to deal with that sort of stuff.

If there’s something much deeper than that and the change that’s happening, that change of I fear I’m going to lose my job or that I don’t want to be here anymore is so much deeper and actually has nothing to do with how your team handles stuff. It’s what happens with you and how you handle those things. Therefore, how you handle the team and how you respond to all that, et cetera. But if we can get deeper to that to understand that it’s actually some other fear, that it’s not actually an unknown.

Then we can get close to that. Now, even if you were to say to me, Look, Nick, I I thought of all that stuff. I sat in the dark, felt through all of it, and here’s what I got to. And it’s still a bit of an unknown. Yeah, life is an unknown. So we can get to the fact that it’s just gonna be an unknown right now, because I don’t know what the hell’s gonna happen when I stop recording. I don’t know what’s gonna happen in next five seconds.

Wouldn’t that been crazy if like something fell through the floor? You know, like what timing? I waited for it, but no. So we have no idea what’s going to happen. We just don’t. So let’s not worry about that. We can be mindful of that, but we don’t want to worry about it. So if we’re aware of there’s this change that’s happening, again, to use the idea of this change that’s happening in your office or at work, and you’re unsure of what how it’s going to affect you or other people or what have you, great. Whatever that thing is, hold that. Even write it down.

NIck McGowan (11:45.475)
And then say, what else is behind you? What else is there? Or what are the parts to this? Because even in that scenario I rolled out with that team, yeah, it has to do with the team, but it really has to do with that leader who’s wondering about the team, who’s really concerned about the leader. And makes sense not to call that leader selfish, but we all think of these things and about ourselves, and it stems from stuff and situations that have happened in the past.

So if we can take that and say, look, I actually know that some of this is unknown, even if not everything is known, but I at least know what it is that I’m feeling off with or not feeling right about or what have you, then that actually starts to collapse the fear of the unknown in the sense. So the change that you’re going through is inevitable. Change is just happening. And how you’re going through those changes really depends on what you do with it. It could be really black and white of

You can just do better with it, but that’s not how we roll on the show. You know that. It’s a matter of being able to do better and doing better consistently because you’re doing more of what’s aligned with you. So again, that scenario, that team leader, it sounds like they may not want to be there. Or they’re really afraid of how it’s going to work because maybe there’s something like imposter syndrome or something that’s telling them maybe you don’t need to be in this spot. You don’t deserve to be in leadership or whatever it is.

Those are the things that actually need to be looked at. Those are the things that you need to be self-aware of. So that change that you’re going through, or the change that you will go through, because even if you’re listening to this and like, cool, Nick, appreciate this, but everything’s cool in life. Wonderful. I hope it stays that way. It’s not. There’s always going to be something that happens. Change is inevitable. anything could happen. And I’m not trying to, you know, throw

Fear and doom and gloom, but just anything could happen. So there’s some sort of change that’s going to happen. And small changes will happen. In those small changes, we can use this. So I challenge all of us. As those small changes or things that come up that feel a little off, like, there’s a change with this, get to the bottom of it. Or as close to the bottom as you can, to say, all right, well, this is the change, and I see this and I feel this. Great. Now let me go a bit deeper.

NIck McGowan (14:10.882)
What actually is there? What what am I feeling off about? So the self-awareness of it is crucial because you’ll be able to actually see. And then from there you can do something with it.

NIck McGowan (14:31.138)
All right. So now that you’re self aware of it, you know there’s this change. I feel this, and I’m getting closer to what it is that I I can feel is off or doesn’t feel as right or the way that I want it to feel. And then at that point we can take inventory. We can actually start to see, well, what feels good? All right. And this change, this feels all right, or like this doesn’t feel anything at all. But these are the things that feel off for me. So that’ll help you actually go deeper with it. Like, well, I’m not sure of how the team’s gonna handle it or.

How I’m going to handle the team, really how I’m going to handle being here tomorrow, or whatever those things are, again, in that scenario, to be able to actually understand like these are what those look like. And you might find that there might be a lot more pros, but you’re just un unsure and not feeling great about the change because there might be something outside of that. So even if you’re looking at something, this is what’s going on at the office or what have you.

might be something going on at home. And doing this little bit of an activity will help us then go, okay, well, it’s not within this. Okay, cool. So what else is it? Is it home? Is it somewhere else? Is it a hobby? Is it something different? We want to get as close as we can so we can be aware of it to do something from there. So taking that inventory of what feels right, what feels off, what doesn’t, like anything and everything that comes up and

feel something toward it or you’re thinking some sort of powerful feeling or powerful thought toward it, like I really want to do this or I don’t want to do this or what have you, lean into those and write those down. And then from that point, being able to actually have that to know if I need to look somewhere else, it’s home or somewhere different than that, then you can start to move to that and do kind of that same activity and figure out where it is. We’re basically trying to find where the little problem area is.

For those of you who are who listen who are into audio editing, be it musical production or podcasting or whatever it is, basically what I look at with this is like grabbing an EQ and spiking it all the way to the top and all the way to the bottom and trying to find that bad area that you want to pull out or the area you want to lift up and being able to actually find it. We’ve got to move around and find it within the EQ. So same deal with this.

NIck McGowan (16:52.714)
Once we’re able to move from those pieces and go, it’s not the office. it’s it’s at home. I’m feeling that, but I’m feeling it through the office because it’s some sort of situation.

NIck McGowan (17:11.148)
Then real simply, I think the next two big steps here are really making sure that you change your mindset and then figuring out what your actions are. There’s a lot of nuance to all of these things. I focused a lot of time in the beginning of this with the self-awareness because if you are not aware of this, you can’t do anything with this. So once you’re self-aware of it, you’re then able to actually, again, take inventory and figure out where the thing is. And at that point, we can do something with it.

Now, changing our mindset from there, we understand, I feel this way about this thing because this ties back to some situation that happened before. Is that situation the exact same? Is it the same person? Like trying to take the inventory again of is this a one to one scenario? Or are we literally comparing apples and car tires? Like, are they completely different? Because then at that point, if it is, logically, we can just remove the one and say, well, that.

We can’t relate that to this. And being able to change change our mindset from that, to really be curious what’s going on here. How do I want to do this? How do I want to feel with this? Or what do I see that’s happening? Or what have you? So we want to be self-aware and take the inventory to be able to understand what we’re getting to and what’s actually underneath everything. And curiosity is really covering all of that, but being able to change our mindset to understand.

This doesn’t relate to a thing that’s happened before, but I’m feeling this. I am in control of my mind and I can say we’re going to go in this direction. Gives us a sense of power to be able to take that, even if we’re going into the unknown, because we don’t know where we’re going to go. We don’t know what’s going to happen. But we do know that we’ve done this work to be able to say, well, this is the thing that feels off for me. Cool. I see it. I feel it. I can hold it in my hands. So I’m going to take it and we’re going to march along from there.

And you’re gonna have different mindset at that point because you’re going into it with curiosity. That’s the hope here. From there, being able to understand how you actually relate to all of these situations based on maybe this is really, really simple, but the way I look at it, are you a thinker or are you a feeler? If you’re somebody who has to think about all these situations and think about everything you do and you think about it all, then think about these things as.

NIck McGowan (19:35.415)
You work through it, continue to think about it, and then slide into some sort of small action as you think about it. If you’re a feeler and somebody who has to feel all of these things, that’s how I am. I have to feel these things. I have to feel through to understand what’s actually feeling off for me or what feels misaligned or what have you, to then be able to understand that feels whichever way it does, and I’m going to take some sort of action.

So that’s ultimately the next step is taking some sort of action to it. It’s not like you have to change drastically or take this giant leap. It’s some sort of small action. And that might be scheduling a little bit of time to talk with your partner or to talk to yourself, even. I’m going to do this at that time. And then holding yourself accountable to do it. Or spend a little bit of time right then in that moment to be able to work through it. Some sort of small action that’s going to lead to another action.

And I guess in a really easy and blunt way to put this, you have to fuck around, fuck around and find out. Like it’s that easy. There’s the little actions within that. Now, again, understand about yourself. I know that I have to fuck around and find out, but I also know that other people have to think through things and take these little slight pivots and changes. Either way, it’s incremental. That’s what we’re looking at. The more that we can do that and we can make these tiny little changes, these little steps.

That that literally helps us in all situations. But with this specifically, being afraid of the unknown because of the changes that are happening right now, we’re able to look at these things and separate the emotions, also look at the reality of what’s happening and stay in the present without getting ourselves caught up in all of it. Now, this might be one of those episodes you need to go back or make sure you get to the website and look at the transcript.

But break this stuff down. I’m not trying to just spit out frameworks because I think everybody needs a framework. These are the things that I do and that work for me. And I break them down to be able to help you use practical pieces that have helped me. And I’d love to hear from you of how it helps, if it doesn’t help, or how it works for you, or what’s worked differently, or what have you. As you can tell, the biggest thing here is just self-awareness. The more self-aware we are, and the more aware we are of just most things.

NIck McGowan (21:59.897)
We can do something with them. Taking inventory of what we’re thinking and feeling and all the pieces and components that have to go along with that change and the feelings, or the fear rather, will allow us to actually get closer and closer to what the root is, to actually do something with that. And then it’s taking some sort of calculated action. And that has doesn’t have to be a big calculation. It can be like, great, I think the next step is this thing.

Then wonderful, do that because that energy is gonna tie back into it. You’re doing something with it and just gonna be potentially just keep snowballing for you in a positive way. Even if it’s the way of, this really doesn’t feel right. And I don’t wanna be here, I don’t wanna be in this, or this feels really off because of this thing that feels really right, or whatever. So I’d love to hear how this is working out for you. I’d love to hear what you do in these situations. And I’d love to hear if there are ways that you’d love to meet.

Like for me to expand on this stuff. So thank you so much for listening today. Please follow us wherever you listen to podcasts and stick around for the next episodes that are coming out. There’s a lot more I’m going to get into that’s specifically tied to self-awareness. And again, I really appreciate you being with us today.

In this episode, Nick speaks with Nichole Lee to explore the depths of self-awareness, intuition, and personal transformation. They discuss how life’s challenges activate hidden gifts, the science behind intuition, and practical steps for self-mastery.

What to listen for:

“The only way our brain and body learn how to grow is if we give it these new experiences that allow it to expand.”

“Who am I? Do I really know who this is, or is it based on what people told me I am? Am I really fulfilled or am I just living in what people deem as happiness?”

About Nichole Lee

Nichole Lee is a certified trauma-informed somatic life, health, and travel coach, intuitive guide, strategist, energy healer, retreat leader, and podcast host guiding purpose-driven women 40+ through life transitions with clarity, confidence, and courage so they can boldly step into their next chapter and create a life they truly love on their terms.

Resources:

Are you looking for ways to better manage your daily mindset, live a happier, more fulfilled life, and pursue the depths of your soul on your path to self-mastery?

Schedule a free clarity session with Nick to see if mentoring is a good fit for you. https://tidycal.com/nickmcgowan/mindset-and-self-mastery-clarity-session

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Check out Nick’s website for more information: https://nickmcgowan.com/

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:01.957)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show with Nichole Lee. Nichole, how are you doing?

Nichole Lee (00:13.11)
Great Nick. I’m so excited that I finally made it! It’s been a journey.

Nick McGowan (00:16.943)
I know. Just a little peek behind the curtains, people. I said to her, I was like, when did we first when did we first book this? And she misheard me. And she said five years ago. She thought when she first like did her own thing. And I was like, Five years ago, it’s like about when I started podcast. It’s literally been about a year. but I think the timing to all of it is something that didn’t pass us by, even in us shooting the breeze before we got we hit record, the past year. Let’s just say it’s been a year.

Nichole Lee (00:34.456)
Yes.

Nick McGowan (00:46.725)
has been monumental, it sounds like in both of our lives. And that’s one of the main things we want to get a get into on on the show today. So Nichole, why don’t you get us started? Tell us what you do for a living and what’s one thing most people don’t know about you. It’s maybe a little odd or bizarre.

Nichole Lee (01:00.042)
Awesome. So as I mentioned, I am Nichole Lee. I serve high performing individuals who are navigating loss, grief, and major life transitions. I’ve coined myself the grieving achiever coach because I find that high achievers often get missed in the mix.

when it comes to our transitions and grief, because we’re so resilient, we’re often the ones that are the strong ones, we’re often the ones who can overcome. and so that’s the work that I do in supporting individuals through those major transitions.

Nick McGowan (01:31.847)
Cool. So what’s that one thing that most people don’t know about you? It’s a little odd, bizarre.

Nichole Lee (01:35.836)
yeah, thanks. So what probably odd is that I have the gift of telepathy. So there are individuals who have actually shared with me the telepathy tapes. But yes, I have a unique gift that when I’m connected with people, sometimes in public with strangers, but mostly individuals that I’m connected with, that I actually can hear them, hear what they’re saying, and often hear what they’re saying before it actually comes out of their mouth, which helps me support my clients in many

situations because sometimes it’s just an opportunity for me to have that connectedness that creates even more of a bond. But it was something that I was very freaked out about, Nick. It’s not something I’ve had my entire life. Yes. and it just came about. I have other gifts as well, but that was the one that was like, is this a real thing? And then when I started telling a few people, you know, coming out of what sometimes people say the spiritual closet,

Nick McGowan (02:17.076)
I bet. Who’s talking? Yeah.

Nick McGowan (02:33.698)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (02:35.374)
someone sent me the telepathy tapes and I’m like, huh, this is a real thing, not just woo-woo, but like there’s some science around this. So yes, that’s one of my weird or interesting things about myself.

Nick McGowan (02:48.091)
That is definitely an interesting thing because I think even if most people would say it, most people be lying. but that’s one of those things where look, let’s just be real. There might be people that listen to this and go, Well, that’s total bullshit. I don’t think it’s I don’t think it makes any sense. Other people are listening that are like, preach because I do it or what have you, or I’ve I’ve heard of somebody else that does it. But for the most part, the people listen to the show are open, but also kind of skeptical in certain ways. And when we think about

Nichole Lee (02:54.018)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (03:03.339)
Is it?

Nichole Lee (03:08.414)
Yeah, exactly.

Nichole Lee (03:14.092)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Nick McGowan (03:18.183)
Telepathy or telekinesis or even what are the ones where they’ll they’ll listen from like thousands of miles away or visions and stuff. Yeah, exactly. There are literal classified, yeah, there are documentations of people doing it. Like literally people doing it. And and lab documentation of them doing it to people. So there’s it’s real. it’s also science-driven. And I think sometimes we as people.

Nichole Lee (03:26.468)
like even remote viewing, like remote viewing, yeah. It all fits in this, yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes, exactly. Yep.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (03:47.921)
can can kind of shit on science either way where we go, well, science doesn’t understand it yet, or science didn’t tell me that this thing is real. So therefore, and I think we miss the gray area where the science is actually constantly evolving because we’re constantly understanding, just like we are with ourselves. Like this might be a thing you were able to do 30 years ago, but now you can do it because of the context and the time. So have you actually broken that down a bit, like what happened to be able to unlock it?

Nichole Lee (03:51.682)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole Lee (04:06.412)
Yes.

Nichole Lee (04:16.044)
Yeah. Yeah, that’s a great point, Nick. And what made me, before I jump to that, it makes me think of a lot of the studies they’ve done with twins, for example. And twins having that connection or hearing each other’s thoughts or, you know, they have them there’s been a few experiments even online, right, where the twins are between doors and they’re picking the same numbers and colors and things of that nature.

Nick McGowan (04:24.923)
Mm. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (04:30.021)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (04:38.416)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (04:39.34)
So it’s very interesting as you mentioned the energetics because there is an element that we really are connected. And to your point,

What we start to learn about our ability to be connected is no different than sometimes when people are in the same room and you can literally feel the energy shift. It’s very similar to that. So I have that gift as well. But that’s where I start to explain to people who may be like, This sounds really odd. I always start with something like that. Have you ever walked into a room and just with the room, you either felt lighter or brighter because Nick was smiling? Or have you gone in the room and Nichole and you just automatically knew this meeting was gonna be a piece of was gonna be

Nick McGowan (04:55.313)
Feel it. Yeah.

Nichole Lee (05:17.934)
hot mess, right? And people were like, yes, I’m like, that is the energy exchange, right? So I just wanted to share that. The other thing you mentioned around the question to your point of, you know, I probably had some of these gifts for a very long time. I can think about when I was a small child of just I I’m hyper, I’m

Nick McGowan (05:21.359)
That’s it. Yeah.

Nichole Lee (05:37.154)
hypersensitive as well, you know, the sensitivities and things of that nature. I would say what really put all of this online was when my mother passed away. And my mother has spiritual gifts, which she would be seen as what people call a psychic or clairvoyant.

Nick McGowan (05:38.63)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (05:47.319)
Hmm.

Nichole Lee (05:52.794)
she had the ability to see and connect. But because of the experiences she had, especially in that time, we think about the 80s, 90s. I mean, more people have become more comfortable with this recently, right? Like this is not, I mean, this was, I mean, we think of the Clio phone line, and people are like, What the hell is going on? Right, right, what I’m just saying. So, yeah. So just I don’t I don’t want to get too far off the rails, but

Nick McGowan (06:04.155)
Yeah, yeah.

Nick McGowan (06:10.001)
Well that ended up being nonsense too. That sucked. It like it made it even worse.

Nichole Lee (06:18.344)
that’s so I grew up with someone who had those gifts but didn’t necessarily exercise them all the time. So when you mention that, it’s similar to someone having a parent that’s an artist and something happens and they don’t paint, but you have the gift of painting and you don’t realize it right till later when you take an art class.

It was very similar to me. My mother passed away and all of a sudden these things went online. I could had a greater sense of sensitivity. I was seeing and feeling things very differently. I actually had some illnesses that they say sometimes can be common when you have a sense of awakening. And then it was just over time as I started working with clients Nick, I was doing energy healing work. And with the energy healing work that I do, I connect with someone remote.

Nick McGowan (06:51.909)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole Lee (07:02.506)
So I left corporate in the midst of COVID. So there was no meeting people in person. So what started to happen is I’d follow kind of the the formula that you’re supposed to write for this energy healing type work called emotion code and body code. And then what started happening is I’d actually hear the person telling me. So it wasn’t me connecting and saying, Nick, it’s grief, because I know we’re going to talk a bit about that. It’s grief at 24. It was the person telling me.

Nick McGowan (07:07.409)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (07:32.386)
That it was grief at 24 and all the things. And that’s really what had me connect to it. And then I freaked out. Cause nobody told me like that was going to start happening. But that’s really, you know, like, and then you’re gonna start hearing animals and all the thing. And I’m like, what is happening? And then yeah, and I’m like, Meg, I wanna go. And this is the thing. I think with anything, whether it’s success or certain skills, there’s this part of wanting to be normal. Like, how do I go back into the box? Right. Like, how do I go?

Nick McGowan (07:47.727)
Okay.

Nick McGowan (08:00.481)
Ha ha ha

Nichole Lee (08:01.39)
How do I take off these glasses that I can see everything? So that’s really what happened. And that was my mother passed away in 2018. So soon after she passed, all of these things I call them came online. Cause it’s similar to what you said is I believe they were always there, but there was something that activated them, right? Brought the remembrance back, brought the connection back that they were now turned on. The lights were just off for a while. For forty something years.

Nick McGowan (08:15.089)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (08:25.637)
Hmm. Sure. Yeah. Even when you think of like genetic work, are we have genes that are literally just off, which if they were turned on and certain people, it’s turned on and they can super compute or what have you, like it’s in there. and it’s interesting because I think there’s yeah. Well, I was just gonna go back to the science too. Like we have those people.

Nichole Lee (08:32.461)
Mm-hmm.

Exactly, exactly.

Nichole Lee (08:43.436)
Yeah. Yeah. Which is great that you bring the science to that. Yeah.

Mm hmm.

Nick McGowan (08:52.345)
And I’m not gonna name people or anything, but just the types of people that want to use that in potentially a bad way, or turn people into like basically superheroes or whatever and turn them into super armies or whatever that is. And then there’s also the going through the life things to unlock and to understand it, which I think also ties into all the stuff we see like with the even with AI, like everybody is

Nichole Lee (08:58.668)
Yes.

Nichole Lee (09:03.084)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (09:07.404)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (09:18.082)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (09:20.475)
Just being inundated with everything AI. And there seems to be different camps where it’s like people are totally pro AI or people are totally anti. I’m more of the anti-generative because it takes away from being able to understand how the things work. And even to the point now where, like, I can feel myself, I’m like, this thing could just be generated. I’m like, but what are the components to build it? How do I do that? How do I understand the steps so that I understand myself within those as well?

Nichole Lee (09:33.173)
Mm.

Nichole Lee (09:37.292)
Mm.

Nichole Lee (09:44.877)
Yes.

Nick McGowan (09:50.033)
Which is a different level of self-awareness and probably, I don’t know, sadism to like fucking beat upon yourself to go fucking do the thing. but to not take ourselves away from that and to unlock those pieces. I I always find it interesting how people will end up in a situation and go, I didn’t see how this would have lined up, but now that I’m here, I see how this stuff is lined up and even like holy shit.

Nichole Lee (10:01.805)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (10:11.725)
Yes.

Nick McGowan (10:16.719)
If you would have told me I was gonna do this fifteen, twenty years ago, I’d have laughed at you or told you to screw off or whatever, and now here I am doing it and like, why didn’t I do this fifteen, twenty years ago, you know?

Nichole Lee (10:20.363)
Exactly.

Nichole Lee (10:26.348)
Yeah, and it’s it’s so interesting that you mentioned too around I love that you use the word unlocking because oftentimes we aren’t taught to see the connectedness.

Right. And that’s where things get almost locked down or suppressed. Right. And so when I know a lot of what you talk about is a self-mastery, part of self-mastery is allowing ourselves to be in discovery mode, experimentation mode, right? To to be a bit present so that we can see how things are connected. So we

Nick McGowan (10:43.43)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (10:59.252)
unlock the next level. It makes me think about video games. Though I’m not a gamer now, as a kid, I was a gamer, right? The Mario Brothers, we all wanted to get to the next one. He’s like, boo-doo, right? And then the thing would just explode and then we’re next to a level. And then we felt like we were starting over again because the next level was so hard or it was unfamiliar. So

Nick McGowan (11:03.057)
Always. Yeah.

Nichole Lee (11:21.292)
I think that’s something also just for those that may be like, wow, maybe that’s too far out. You can see the connectedness when you think of video games or competitions, right? Because that’s unlocking the next level. And the thing you mentioned about AI, I think is really powerful too, that we just need to be mindful, whether it’s AI, self-discovery work, whether it’s a book, a podcast, whatever the case is. I think because we have so much access to consuming.

Nick McGowan (11:21.318)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (11:30.744)
Mm.

Nichole Lee (11:49.184)
If we don’t pause and actually reflect through our own filter of what that means, you can go through the same thing even if you aren’t using AI, right? So if I if I, you know, binge watch all of Nick’s interviews, right? And I’m cat gathering all these things and I’m not stopping and saying, but what does that mean to me? Where does it resonate with me? I can take this piece, but probably not that one. I think that’s very similar to what you’re talking about with AI. Then you

Nick McGowan (11:52.497)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (11:58.299)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (12:08.111)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (12:16.46)
You get atrophy. That’s literally what happens. You turn off, right? Or you close the door on things that may have been open for you to explore. So I love that you mentioned that because it’s such a heightened thing right now. Then I think that to me, regardless of all the other things, it’s how are you utilizing it that it helps you expand, elevate, be curious, experiment, challenge versus allowing it to be a crutch that then you lose some of your own natural superpowers.

Nick McGowan (12:43.271)
Sure.

And also why? You know, if you think of like creating, let’s say art in a sense, you’re creating it for the creation of the art. It’s truly the process of it. Like one of the things I talk with my podcasters about is the art of the podcast and the art of these conversations. Cause this is all that matters. The people that are listening, like you that are listening right now, you’re the one that matters. The people that are listening to this that understand and can take from this and go, huh, how does this tie into my world and what do I want to do with it?

Nichole Lee (12:49.795)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yep.

Nichole Lee (13:01.27)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (13:16.347)
That’s what matters, but it’s the journey of it and the process of it. I think sometimes we as people, just to go back to AI, will look to AI to create things because actually it’s a deeper systemic problem that’s telling us we need to create all the fucking things we can, to put all the things out there we can, because it’s a race to try to get all the content out there, to get all the eyeballs. And nobody really, they’re not to say nobody, a lot of people that run that race don’t pause and go, wait a minute.

Nichole Lee (13:19.574)
I love that.

Nichole Lee (13:23.565)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (13:45.799)
Are these eyeballs actually doing anything? Like I bring up to people, like I don’t post a lot on social media because honestly, that doesn’t matter. Because somebody sitting on Instagram, sitting on the toilet, collecting another hemorrhoid doesn’t give a fuck about their mindset at that point. And if they do, their mind should be get the fuck up, wipe your ass, and go to another room. But

Nichole Lee (13:48.138)
Mm.

Nichole Lee (13:52.055)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (14:05.826)
Did you notice you said

That is not quite the visual I wanted, but I went with you, Nick. And that’s that’s also with my gifts. I just I have to come back. I have to come back. Well, someone who is a visual person. I think someone else might be staying with you. I was like, I went there, they’re pooping, now they’re back, like what’s happening? And then the part of me, I’m like, what’s happening in their mind? And then they the little scientists in me. Yes. And and I think the thing that we can anchor back in is the part around

Nick McGowan (14:12.581)
You’re welcome.

Yeah, and and sometimes the visuals can be a little little much.

Nick McGowan (14:26.181)
Yeah, no, visuals. Like it’s hot, it’s sweaty in there.

Nichole Lee (14:39.052)
the belief system, right? So if we buy into the belief that producing this way is going to lead to X, Y, Z, or Z, depending on where you are in the country, right? or I have a belief that that is how I’m going to be valued, right? We often pass what I say, we look at the fruit, doing all the things, the AI, the task automat automation,

Nick McGowan (14:51.985)
Sure.

Nichole Lee (15:08.246)
We often don’t look at the root. What’s underneath is what you’re talking about, right? So if I have a belief that that’s going to lead to this, or I have a belief that I have to do it to be cool, or I have a belief that that whatever those things are external, externally driven out of proportion, is then to your point how you get to this space, that you’re not even doing it from an intentional space. You’re doing it to catch up or be in competition.

Nick McGowan (15:10.543)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Nichole Lee (15:33.59)
And I think that leads very nicely when we talk about transitions, because many times that’s what’s happened to many of us on our journey. That happened to me, right? So it took me losing my mom to wake up to see I was in that autopilot external validation race. My belief system was the more I did, the more I showed up, the more accolades I had, the more whatever, the more I should be one, two, three, XYZ, right?

And it wasn’t until my I say all the time my mother’s death was my rebirth. It was literally an awakening to ask these questions, not from judgment, but from curiosity. Like, who am I? Do I really know who this is? Or is it based on what people told me I am? Am I really fulfilled, or am I just living in what people deem as the happiness? You and I chatted, right, about so oftentimes the money, the accolades, and it’s like

Nick McGowan (16:13.06)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (16:26.885)
Ha ha ha.

Nichole Lee (16:32.394)
It really took my mother dying. My mother was diagnosed in May and died in September. Okay. And it took me saying, If I was on my dying bed and my mother was vivacious and fun and all these and go through that decline, I was like, Would all this shit matter?

And I didn’t like the answer I got. It still chokes me up, right? Because it was like, no. The money, the all the all the stuff would not matter. So what am I gonna do now? Right? And so again, I know we talked at AI, but it’s it’s very similar, right? If you allow yourself to be so consumed that you’re not having these curious questions.

Nick McGowan (16:56.741)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (17:10.225)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (17:17.69)
This is what I believe leads to identity crisis. It’s not that you wake up one day at 40. I was 41, my mother passed. It was not like I woke up at 41 and was like, what the hell? No. It was realizing I say I was packing my bag with shit that I didn’t even pay attention to. And then someone stopped me enough to look in my bag of life. And it was a lot of stuff in there that was heavy. And it was a lot of stuff in there that I’m like, this ain’t mine. This is not it.

Nick McGowan (17:27.431)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (17:46.338)
So I just I love that you started there, but I think this is where in in our own realities we can connect to those types of questions that sometimes you can be uncomfortable when you get the answer, but that’s where the real freedom is. Because the clarity is when you can do something with it.

Nick McGowan (17:46.917)
Hmm.

Nick McGowan (18:04.391)
Exactly.

Nick McGowan (18:09.125)
Yeah. And it’s not like pain stops at that point. And I think that’s a thing that most people probably really understand. Like if I ask these tough questions, it’s probably going to bring pain. So I don’t want that. Let me go get pie. Let me go get ice cream. Let me go get something that’s like a happy. Let me go watch TV or whatever. And it’s like, cool. But if we’re self-aware of that enough, I do I do think we as people get to a point where we’ve had enough. And even the people that don’t do something have still

Nichole Lee (18:11.543)
No

Nichole Lee (18:15.586)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (18:21.1)
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Nichole Lee (18:35.267)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (18:38.799)
I I’m pretty sure hit that point. And like, I don’t know where it is in your twenties or thirties or whatever. It’s all different for different people. But I suspect that we all go through that where we go, fucking damn it. I’m done with this. It’s what happens next then. Because some people will look at that and go, I said I’m done with this, but holy shit, that’s a giant mountain. And they don’t do anything. Other people are like, I’m done with this, and I can only see my feet. And I’m just gonna keep walking and keep going. And

Nichole Lee (18:40.824)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (18:53.016)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (19:00.962)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (19:04.557)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (19:07.299)
Neither one of them are right or wrong. It’s on us to do something with that. But for us to understand why those things are being done and then just asking, are we okay with that? Are we not? So I think about it from the perspective of people that are in a job right now and want to start a business or basically not be in their job. And there’s a difference between the people that are like, I hate my job and I don’t want to do a thing. I guess I’ll become a coach. Like, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the people that are like,

Nichole Lee (19:23.48)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (19:33.804)
Mm.

Nick McGowan (19:36.739)
I don’t feel called to be here anymore. I feel called to be something else and do something greater that’s outside of what they’re doing. That’s a different feel and a different vibe, but the steps are still the same. Like you have to take another fucking step. And oftentimes you don’t know what’s going to happen. But when we get stuck in that shit where it’s like, this is just, you know, I I was told to go to college. I was told to get married. I was told to have kids. I was told to do this. And like I’m doing all these things. We have to look at that and go, does that feel right?

Nichole Lee (19:39.309)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (19:44.738)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (20:06.875)
And I think a lot of people went through something similar in COVID because like everybody was just pushed home instantly. They’re like, Well, fuck, what do I do? Some people got divorces, some people got had kids, some people started careers or whatever. But if I think about it from the perspective of this show, this is like a lab in a sense where we get to talk about these things and do some of the work now. So when we get into those moments, we go, shit, I did some of this work before. So I’m a little bit more prepared.

Nichole Lee (20:12.61)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (20:34.309)
Because really your character’s gonna show up. Like whatever you’re okay with or wherever you’re actually going to be happens in that moment. Like almost how people can say, well, if somebody had a gun to my head, I would fucking knock the gun out and I would kick their ass and I would do all these things. Or reality, you might shoot yourself sit in the corner and cry. Like, you don’t know. You have no idea. Until that stuff happens, we can prepare the best that we can in this safe space to do that. So somebody’s in that spot right now, like you and I were years ago to go, this doesn’t feel right.

Nichole Lee (20:50.94)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (20:59.533)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (21:03.641)
Obviously, it’s not like Monday you go, this sucks, it doesn’t feel right. And Tuesday you told them all to eat a ball of shit and you moved along by Wednesday. I mean, that might be some people’s story, but Thursday’s gonna be a rough day, you know? Like Thursday, they’re like, fuck, what did I? All right, what happens now? but that path, and everybody’s path looks looks different in their own way. But you and I took those steps over and over and over. So now that we can look back at that, what sort of

Nichole Lee (21:09.966)
Ha ha ha.

It might be some people.

Nichole Lee (21:19.438)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (21:26.445)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (21:30.235)
guidance and wisdom do you kind of glean from those steps that you took that you can share with people.

Nichole Lee (21:35.874)
Yeah, and I I appreciate the you mention too, like that the journey may be different in how you get there. I would say one of the things is acknowledging it. I think is the first. So many times we aren’t fully present and we’re not sitting with a little bit of that discomfort to get to a point that says, Yeah, this doesn’t feel right. Right. In my case it was extreme. I lost my mother.

Nick McGowan (21:47.143)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (22:03.52)
So all the emotions came running, but oftentimes it’s those subtle experiences, right? Those subtle discomforts that are happening. So I think acknowledging something doesn’t feel aligned anymore. Like starting there.

And I think too, for high performing people, sometimes we feel like we have to have all the solutions. So we don’t even want to acknowledge it because then we have to do all the things. Not like you said, not just the next step, but like, no, I know I acknowledge it. Now I must have a whole spreadsheet and like a plan and like seven times that you know it’s like, okay, calm down. So I would say acknowledge. I would say the other thing is then I’ve briefly talked about this a bit, is the curiosity, right? And allowing yourself to feel.

Nick McGowan (22:26.087)
Mm-hmm. You can’t half asset.

Seven tabs.

Nick McGowan (22:46.214)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (22:49.034)
into it. So we hear a lot of times and I feel like sometimes it’s become cliche. You have to feel it to heal it. But the science is there as well, right? If you’re not connecting to the thoughts, the feelings, it’s very challenging to allow your brain and body to come up with solutions outside of what might already be anchored in you.

Nick McGowan (23:07.205)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (23:10.23)
So if you’re like, hmm, this something doesn’t quite feel right, what does it feel like? What is I often use, if you haven’t used a feelings wheel, I think it’s awesome. Many of us did not grow up expressing more than angry, sad, mad, and happy, right? So we don’t have a vocabulary. So I think sometimes it’s that. It’s like something doesn’t feel right, doesn’t feel aligned. What does that feeling look like? Discontentment, discomfort?

Nick McGowan (23:19.953)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (23:25.892)
If that. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (23:35.879)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (23:36.794)
Anger, unfulfillment, right? Because when you can name it, you can also then start to kind of navigate then what this might look like, right? So if I’m like, wow, it’s I’m just not feeling fulfilled anymore. That also opens your mind. Am I unfulfilled with the job? Am I unfulfilled in the environment? Am I unfulfilled with what I’m doing? The focus area, right? Again, you start to become more curious that starts to unlock, right? Different components. The other part, then I would say.

Nick McGowan (23:45.583)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (23:55.718)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (24:02.939)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (24:07.05)
Is after you’re starting to become a bit more curious, then allow yourself to see what those paths might look like. Oftentimes, especially if you’ve been anchored in a particular role, your identity can sometimes become collapsed. So you’re not always looking at what that could afford you. And what I invite high achieving people to do, again, because you’re so used to hitting the target and having the answer, is to give yourself permission to dream.

Nick McGowan (24:21.797)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (24:35.02)
Give yourself permission to do a mind map. Give yourself permission to say it could lead to this. In my grand world, I would be a fisherman on a boat catching two fish to a speaker, whatever the case is. The reason why I say that as well is we don’t realize we’re collapsing parts of our brain that don’t allow us to explore and expand like we were as children. And it’s why children can say, I want to be a firefighter.

Nick McGowan (24:57.851)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (25:02.498)
And astronaut and be a Broadway singer in the same vein, right? And so that’s one thing I would also say when’s the last time you allowed yourself to play explore dream? Look at all the possibilities because then you can filter in on your reality. Perhaps I can’t leave because I have two kids right now, but what can I do that allows me to feel excited, energized, right?

Nick McGowan (25:07.729)
Yep.

Nick McGowan (25:17.073)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (25:29.912)
But if you aren’t looking at it from that broad base, it becomes very difficult to filter in because you will look at your reality first. It’s very natural. You will look at the bills you have to pay, the people who are leaning on you and the responsibilities you have. So that’s where I would say to kind of inverse that. Allow yourself to dream and then filter your reality into it. And then you can go from there, obviously, and then.

Nick McGowan (25:48.571)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (25:54.242)
The last thing I would say to Nick, and I don’t know if this was something for you, when you start to make that shift, I think when we talk about kind of the mountaintop, I think what sometimes is the challenge is you realize that many of the people that are around you are very similar to your old identity and who you are. So sometimes wanting to climb the mountaintop, you don’t have the mountain climbers in your team, in your tribe, in your crew, right?

And so maybe sitting with that of why it feels so difficult to even think about the next step, because there is a reality around loneliness. There is a reality of the grief that can come with becoming this other person and not seeing any of the people coming with you. So I just want to acknowledge that because that’s something I saw for myself. And I didn’t lose all my friends, and you know, but from a career perspective.

Nick McGowan (26:31.943)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (26:48.554)
I didn’t realize how much my identity and so many of the relationships that I kept on a day-to-day basis were tied to my career. And when I left, no one told me I was gonna grieve because I left on my own accord. No one tells you when you make the decision that you can still grieve like the person who was laid off or the person that retired, right? So those are just a few things. Again, the acknowledge.

Nick McGowan (26:56.39)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (27:02.288)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (27:16.214)
start expressing the emotions or figuring out what those feelings are, being curious where that takes you to unlock some of the knit codes. Unlock some of the codes. And then the fourth is giving yourself permission to be more expansive. Fig kind of look at how it might take you into different spaces and places.

Nick McGowan (27:35.771)
I love all of that. I especially I’m not the type of person that’s like everything needs to be a framework. But certain people need certain boxes of things to go, cool, I conceptually understand this. We as humans need that for our brains. Like we even talked about stories, I think we talked a little bit about that before, but of like how people position things to be able to talk about stories. But we’ve been doing that since we were before cave people. Like we’re on the coast in Africa.

Nichole Lee (27:41.111)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Nichole Lee (27:59.694)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (28:01.945)
As like what, maybe a few hundred people way back in the day telling stories about things and starting to take from there. We all have these interpretations of stuff and we create different stories inside of our minds of, well, I can’t do that right now, or I can’t do this, can’t do that. obviously I think about mindset a lot. I talk about it on the show, and I don’t name it cheesily like this is a mindset thing, but there are certain times that are really intentionally mindset driven. Like,

Nichole Lee (28:05.25)
Yeah, exactly.

Nichole Lee (28:17.111)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (28:20.835)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Nichole Lee (28:28.205)
Yeah, yeah.

Nick McGowan (28:30.061)
When I think of mindset, I think it is literally your mind intentionally in action based on bias and based on experiences that you’ve had before where you go into something and say, I’m gonna fucking figure this thing the fuck out. Like there’s no other way around it. You’re going to figure that out. Like your intention is to go through and figure that thing out. Even if the thing is, I can’t do it. Like I I don’t have enough resources or skills or whatever it is. The intention and the force is there. There’s a difference with the high achievers that constantly live in that.

Nichole Lee (28:35.148)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (28:50.349)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (28:59.963)
From the high achievers that are self-aware enough to understand that they constantly live in that. So all the things you’re saying, I think, are critically important. And also understanding about ourselves. Like somebody who’s a dreamer, like I love to sit here, like, I’ll set a timer for 15, 20 minutes and let me just go in my mind palace and work through the thing. And yeah, well, that’s where it is. Then like I’m creating all this stuff. And then from there, go, cool. How do I reverse engineer it? How do I tie it into this world where other people are like, things need to be calculated?

Nichole Lee (29:02.478)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (29:09.101)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (29:17.356)
I love that they’re my palace. Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (29:25.762)
Mm.

Nick McGowan (29:28.785)
Great, I hear you. And also if you were to look at this a little differently and tie your calculations into it, understanding the organism that’s operating this, then you do it however you’re doing it. I think big thing that we’re talking about is being self-aware enough to look at a thing and go, does this feel right? And if it doesn’t, why is it? I even think from like a macro perspective, I have different times where I’m I feel off. And I know if I’m off and I’m not naturally joyous and curious.

Nichole Lee (29:46.786)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (29:58.451)
Something’s off, like something’s wrong. Sometimes it’s it’s the wrong relationship or it’s the wrong client or it’s the whatever, like the a thing that shouldn’t be anymore. And you go, all right, cool, I’m gonna do something with it. Sometimes it’s also I need to not sit at my fucking computer and I should probably go step outside and breathe fresh air. And understanding that enough for each of us to go, is it a critical thing, or is it just a small little glint of something that’s saying, you know what? Actually.

Nichole Lee (29:59.469)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (30:04.269)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (30:18.359)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (30:28.047)
You want to do more of this, where we step away from ourselves from that. I don’t think everybody is super or hyper intuitive, but I do think we all have that in us. It’s inside of all of us. It’s us being able to not crystallize it and just lock it out, you know?

Nichole Lee (30:38.754)
Yeah. Yeah, and I love the

Nichole Lee (30:44.79)
Yeah, and I love that, Nick, because I think it goes back to what you were talking about when we started as a civilization, right? We we were more in tune. And I think the thing that you’re talking about too is the permission to be embodied. Now recognizing there could have been adverse experiences that created that disconnection of your own trust, of your intuition, of your insight. That’s why, too, when we start looking at beliefs, if you’re like, I don’t believe I’m worthy, that narrative is in

Nick McGowan (31:06.087)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (31:14.764)
Ingrained in you, right? Or again, I I’ve worked with individuals super successful, but were not embodied, right? They they got on autopilot in the mind of success and resilience and the adrenaline, all those things for survival, but hadn’t connected to what we’re talking about of does it feel aligned and giving yourself permission, right? To say, does this feel aligned? Does this feel right for me? and so I love that you say that because.

Nick McGowan (31:21.915)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (31:36.635)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (31:44.108)
I think that is where sometimes there’s a disconnect of even allowing yourself to do that. And even what you mentioned with the person who may have the plan, I think one of the things that we’ve learned about the brain and body as well is the way you change things is to create the the the resistance, right? To pull the rubber band, right? To create unfamiliar experiences. That is where neuroplasticity comes from.

Nick McGowan (32:05.873)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (32:11.742)
So when I have individuals similar to what you mentioned, they’re like, I always have a plan. I’m like, I’m gonna invite you, because that’s what you hired me to do, was to challenge you, right? I’m gonna invite you to do it this other way. And while you’re doing it.

Nick McGowan (32:19.942)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (32:25.374)
Similarly, why does it feel so uncomfortable to dream? The narratives start showing up. Dreaming didn’t make you any money, right? Dreaming was gonna have you on the side of the road. Dreaming was not going to pay bill, whatever that is, right? Because that that’s what’s driving it. And as you’re doing that.

Nick McGowan (32:30.598)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (32:43.528)
then you can allow yourself to also have compassion to say, you know what? I’m doing this for me, not because I have to. So I think that’s the other part when we talk about the mindset work.

We know that the mind and body again works on fam familiarity, right? And so if we’re not allowing ourselves to have these unfamiliar experiences, the same thing we have challenging experiences, what what I’ve continued to learn is the experiences are about the growth and learning.

The only way our brain and body learns how to grow is if we give it these new experiences that allow it to write expand. And so it goes back kind of the AI thing, right? So that’s the thing I think is very interesting again with people who are automatically driven and have been resilient, but sometimes that’s based in your your bubble that you’ve created in resilience. And so what happens when you’re in unfamiliar situations.

Nick McGowan (33:17.297)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (33:42.684)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (33:46.718)
Sometimes this is where it also is a mask of the self-doubt, the insecurities that no one else sees, right? Because you’re so used to being able to use that playbook that worked for so long. And now when your playbook isn’t working, if your belief system says you should have figured it out and know how to do it.

Nick McGowan (34:00.263)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (34:07.419)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (34:07.938)
Then this is where you start to go through the cycle, right? So it just I love that you mentioned that about it’s almost what they call like the fitness, right? We’re talking about mental and emotional fitness, spiritual fitness. That is doing the reps, but sometimes doing that different exercise that gets you to work on other parts of your muscle, right? They’re your mental, physical, and emotional muscle.

Nick McGowan (34:18.107)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (34:31.973)
Yeah. And there’s stuff that’s just underneath it all that we are often unaware of, those subconscious limiting beliefs. even with what you just said, I I learned about a concept a few years ago called our subconscious winning strategy, which is basically a strategy we develop in our formative years to say this is how you stay safe or love or this is how you’re you win. And then you turn that to a strategy that becomes who you are. And literally when I read that, I was at a

Nichole Lee (34:35.31)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (34:39.054)
Mm.

Nichole Lee (34:45.75)
Mm.

Nichole Lee (34:51.02)
Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Yes.

Nick McGowan (34:59.719)
Crux in life where I was on the tipping point of it, an existential crisis. And it was like everything you’ve done to this point isn’t going to get any further. So what are you going to do now? It’s like, motherfucker. And I mean, that’s true because we do these things, you know?

Nichole Lee (35:09.734)
Yeah. Yeah. And the external world, depending on where you ap apologies for cutting you off. I’m sorry about that. the thing that’s interesting too that we’re wrapping it around is this external the the level of distractions, the level of narrative, the n the level of things outside of you.

Nick McGowan (35:18.215)
Are you good?

Nick McGowan (35:29.702)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (35:34.064)
Noise.

Nichole Lee (35:34.176)
that if you were right in nature and and figuring these things out, it might be a little bit different. So I think that’s the other thing that sometimes we’re not taking into account. We are creators and consumers. So when your eyes are constantly open to these different things coming in, when you’re hearing different things coming in, when you’re feeling different things coming in, it can alter your state of what you think is your are is your play or your rule book.

Nick McGowan (35:44.252)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (36:00.95)
Rule book, right? So you could have an anchoring belief of one thing and then not realize that you’re literally taking in all this other data. It’s no different than what happens with AI when they’re like, wow, the data is biased with this, and you know, certain backgrounds and people and things, right? Because the data that was utilized to create the algorithm or create the formula is missing some things. And so we look at it in ourselves to your point, like, I’ve been running this.

Nick McGowan (36:02.043)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (36:23.463)
Lots of things.

Nichole Lee (36:30.018)
This body or mind intelligence, but it doesn’t have all the data. It’s only using the data that I created the initial plan. And so just what you are saying is like, okay, then I need to actually look at what are the inputs that I’ve been taking in. What have I been consuming? And that’s the presence that we talked about. If I’m not present asking these, then the subconscious can’t come to the surface.

for me to actually have a conversation with it. It just keeps running.

Nick McGowan (37:01.899)
Exactly. And and obviously we we’re not saying to just pause all of the world and say, all right, well, this thing just happened. So I’m gonna do this. I think there are certain times where we can. Like I have gotten to a stage in life where because of the business I have, clients I have, et cetera, and how I work, I am super self aware of this shit. So if I need to, I can pause. Because typically even if it’s between meetings, like, all right, that was a lot, I need a minute.

Nichole Lee (37:09.377)
no, not at all.

Nichole Lee (37:14.776)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (37:25.122)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (37:31.269)
And just being able to pause and breathe through it. I get that there are people that have multiple kids and they have this and they have that and they have all these things. And my almost immediate question is, why? Like, why do you have all those things? Are those all aligned? Because if they aren’t, that’s like issue number one in a sense. But I’ve heard from different people that are like, well, I can’t just pause the entire world to just do all this work. And we’re not saying that. We are saying too in the moments when you can.

Nichole Lee (37:39.48)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (37:44.92)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (37:49.154)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (37:58.875)
To then think about it and work on it. Even if it’s later on where you go, you know what? The whole fucking house is asleep. This thing is just gnawing at me. Sit there for a minute. Just sit at your coffee table and just breathe for a minute and think through it and feel into it. I love that you pointed out the emotional wheel, because most people are really unaware of that. And most people, better men specifically, have a hard time naming things outside of the four that you named. When if they’re angry, they might really actually be disappointed.

Nichole Lee (38:18.029)
Mm.

Nichole Lee (38:21.582)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (38:28.559)
Or they’re grieving from something because they had an expectation. And not just to not to be sexist in a sense to say it’s all men, because it’s just people. but oftentimes as men we can go, well, there’s the thing, and I I said the thing that I said, and I have a penis, you should listen to me. And that’s not really true. Like, no, and you have to use your words better. So I challenge us as people to go.

Nichole Lee (38:36.812)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Nichole Lee (38:45.12)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nick McGowan (38:53.241)
If you’re saying to yourself right now, or even listening to this and saying, fuck you both, you don’t understand because my life is hectic and blah, blah, blah. Heard and also we understand. It’s in those moments to be able to do something in the moment that you can to then say, all right, what do I do differently next time? But not beat ourselves up. And I think that’s a thing you’re probably pretty good at too, of like, give yourself a break every once in a while. Because if you need a break, go take the break instead of fucking snapping at your kids or losing your shit on somebody, especially.

Nichole Lee (38:58.024)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (39:15.778)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (39:21.819)
Like in a corporate environment, like I if you’ve been in corporate for more than a year, you’ve seen somebody in a meeting melt down and and it’s how they rebound from there. I’ve seen people melt down and come in like three hours later to another meeting and go, Sorry everyone, I apologize. Here’s what’s happening in life. Other people, it’s like that was the crux of them breaking. But I could always tell there were other people in the meeting that were like right there. They were ready to break. And everybody’s kind of at that point. So we all just need to

Nichole Lee (39:27.502)
Yes.

Nichole Lee (39:42.883)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (39:47.107)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (39:51.451)
Be restful in a sense with what we’re doing, give ourselves grace and all. But for the people that are on their path towards self mastery and working through this stuff and trying to find grace within themselves in these moments, what’s your advice for those people?

Nichole Lee (40:04.396)
Yeah, I I would say to the point that you meant mentioned really quick too about honoring your reality, right? And so I often challenge clients as well. What’s your powerful one-minute thing? Right? You can take deep breaths for one minute. You can do tapping for one minute. Then we get to the fabulous five. Can you carve out five minutes?

For whatever it is. I don’t care if it’s journaling, whatever, to your point. Cause also what’s happened from a high performance perspective, and we’re we’re taught this. This is why I said the external thing. You need 30 minutes to meditate, 20 minutes, like everybody has all these rules. And I’m like, if you’ve got five minutes, if you could wake up five minutes earlier and look outside and stare at trees, and now you get an epiphany for the rest of your day.

Nick McGowan (40:45.52)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (40:56.042)
Amazing. So I just to your point, I just wanted to anchor in that is like we all have a minute in the shower. Like let’s get to stacking stuff. We all have five minutes. We might not have the 30. We might not have the hour. We might not have whatever. So that’s challenging us to look at where we do have the time and being intentional of folding in whatever that is that we’re doing.

Nick McGowan (41:16.369)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (41:18.442)
The second part that you mentioned too, I think this is that compassion and grace piece that may be a muscle that you need to build. Again, if we look at I always go back to belief system. If you believe that you’re not worthy of rest or time, or it always has to be you, or this is going to be challenging for you, right? If you were taught that you can’t have grace because then you’ll lose your edge, well, we’ll probably have to work through.

why you why you were told you can’t have love for yourself or whatever, because that’s usually why we’re not doing it.

Nick McGowan (41:49.425)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (41:52.394)
Again, many times we we came into the world with love, with joy, with compassion, wanting to hold the other person’s hand. You know, we were little and someone would fall. We wanted to go over and help them, right? We wanted someone to hold us. So I think that’s also part of it is acknowledging that things may have happened, right? And as you acknowledge it, you also can say, and I’m not going to continue. And then what is that one little element of compassion that you can share for yourself? And the other thing I will say too is there’s

Nick McGowan (42:15.097)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (42:22.298)
been a lot of this self work.

Doing all the work yourself. We are communal tribal people. And I always say, just like the neighbor who would borrow a cup of sugar, you might need to borrow a cup of compassion, right? You may have to ask someone to help you be more loving to yourself, be more compassionate to yourself. You may need to find that other people are giving you that love. And I think that sometimes that’s lost, Nick. If I’m already burnt out, if I’m already feeling less than, if I’m already feeling lonely.

Nick McGowan (42:29.703)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (42:34.257)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (42:54.802)
Me trying to figure it out myself is not always gonna help, right? And and one thing I will say that drives me bonkers is this no one’s coming to save you. I’m like that sometimes work for those who are like, I got my I got up and I did it. I’m looking at the stats, I’m looking at the data around the world. People are lonelier than ever, people are suicidal. So saying that is not helping a lot of people.

Nick McGowan (43:05.745)
Huh.

Nick McGowan (43:11.569)
Sure.

Nick McGowan (43:22.247)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (43:23.66)
Right. What will happen is people can will come and save the day. They may be that person that tells you you’re awesome in the grocery store. What happens though is we have to build because they can’t sustain us. There will always be people who may drop in to help us, but

They can’t sustain us because they’re not always there. So I just wanted to share that too because there may be people who are sitting here that have also believed that they’ve got to always fix it, that there’s nobody who will say they love you or be there for you. And it may take you some time to find those people. I know we were chatting, as we say behind the curtain, now you’re gonna have me using that. It’s how important it is to find your community. And it may take some time to do that, you know, and you owe that to yourself. But that’s something I just wanted to anchor in. And I’m a I’m as you can tell, I’m very passionate about.

Nick McGowan (43:45.509)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (44:04.166)
Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (44:11.092)
it because I’m finding that’s where the loneliness is coming from and that’s where people are silently suffering because they’re like I gotta figure it all out myself and sometimes I need somebody else. That’s why I say the cupper I need to borrow Nick today. You’re you’re making me feel I got a lot of courage. I’m gonna borrow it today and I’m gonna build it up for myself. And I’m gonna need Nick to text me to remind me of my mission because for the last couple weeks I’ve been feeling like crap.

Nick McGowan (44:21.009)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (44:37.029)
Yeah. I think it’s it’s important to know that, because we all I think innately understand that even if you feel like a solo person or like you’re a lone wolf type person or what have you, like we still need or at least could always use somebody else’s help in certain ways. Some people are more community oriented. I’ve learned even about myself. I’m more of an introvert than I originally thought I was, but I thrive in certain

Nichole Lee (44:56.088)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nichole Lee (45:01.858)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (45:05.632)
extroverted situations because it is part of like it scratches so many different itches, opens up different doors and challenges and some things are weird and awkward, especially like making friends in your forties or like dating and shit like that. You’re like, what the fuck is this? Yeah.

Nichole Lee (45:11.853)
Yeah.

Nichole Lee (45:16.746)
Yeah. Yes. I’m single, Nick, and man, I’m forty-nine and man, this this dating pool, I’m trying to put my pinky toe in it, Nick, but I wanna even take my pinky toe.

Nick McGowan (45:30.939)
Yeah. My pinky toe ain’t in touching any apps or anything either. but understanding that, like, I think on that note, let’s say a relationship or a job or something where you go, My my identity is in this thing, your identity may be right now. And that’s a thing that you will continue to carry on in whichever way. But we are the things that are the things that are most important in this. If we have been an identity, because like even

You know, athletes, they play in a league for so long, they do all these things and they get out and what do they do from there? And like you became that identity. But that’s not all that’s not your that’s not who you actually are. And I think us understand that it just you got to take it day by day at times. Like if you’re feeling off today, tomorrow is gonna be different. And if you’re feeling off perpetually, you get to then be able to ask, what do I do with this? And like we’ve talked about being able to actually play through that and understand. So I thought this has been great.

Literally year in the making. What a wonderful episode. Yeah, exactly. Yay. so it’s been awesome having you on. I appreciate your time and your wisdom. before I let you go, where can people find you and where can they connect with you?

Nick McGowan (47:13.009)
Perfect. And I’ll have that stuff in the show notes, too. Again, Nichole. It’s been great having you on. I appreciate your time today.

In this episode, Nick shares insights on the importance of rest, self-awareness, and listening to your intuition to improve mental health and productivity. He discusses personal experiences and practical questions to help you recognize when you’re feeling “off” and how to realign.

What to listen for:

“Take a moment to rest and ask yourself what feels off, and then move along from there”

“We get to choose: Do I just put some dirt on it and keep going? Or do I pause for a second and ask, “What’s up? Why am I feeling this? What am I actually feeling right now?”

About Nick McGowan

I’m Nick McGowan, an entrepreneur, podcaster, and mental health advocate, and I’ve been on a 20+ year journey of personal development, learning to master my mindset, emotions, and the art of living with purpose.

As a Mindset and Self-Mastery Mentor, I work with ambitious men and women who want to live their most authentic and joyous lives by helping them master their mindset, emotional awareness, and authentic communication. My mission is to empower people to lead lives that feel aligned, grounded, and truly their own.

Throughout my career, I’ve built teams, streamlined systems, and improved client experiences across SaaS, media, marketing, and personal development spaces. Whether I’m leading cross-functional projects, optimizing SEO, Podcasting, designing strategies, or guiding clients through transformation, I bring a hands-on, solution-focused approach to everything I do.

I’m also the host of The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show, where my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, challenge us, and ultimately guide us back to who we are at our core. On this show, we uncover the secret gems others have discovered through trial and error and breakthroughs, so you can fast-track your growth and master your mindset in your pursuit of self-mastery. Check out the latest episode here.

With years of podcasting and two decades of marketing experience, I’ve mastered the storytelling, interview flow, strategy, and technical production that elevate a podcast from “just content” to something truly impactful. Whether you’re a leader looking to amplify your message, a seasoned speaker and podcast host looking to sharpen your edge, or even a beginner who is wondering how to share their message, I mentor thought leaders through every step of having the conversation they’re here to have on this planet.

So, what message are you here to share?!

Resources:

Check out other episodes about adjusting our mindset for rest and transition

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have?
Learn how Nick can help!

Learn more about our host, Nick McGowan: https://nickmcgowan.com/

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe to the show on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:04.814)
Hello, and welcome to the Mindset and Self-Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show, I want to talk about us just taking the time to give ourselves rest. I think there are times where we as people will just drive ourselves crazy. we drive ourselves mad, just doing all these things, all the things that we feel other people are telling us to do or the world tells us to do. Sometimes we just need to rest.

And I wanted to take this time to share a message of suggesting that you rest, partially because it’s coming from a personal experience. I have been working a lot over the past few months, working a lot of a lot of projects for clients. I have my own strategy for the podcast and I’ve updated that. I six months of content I put out and all aligned so that we’re on the same page. I’m not just blasting out random messages and stuff like that.

But doing all that work because of a really challenging end to a chapter that happened recently got me to a point about a week ago where I could feel there’s a little bit of burnout starting to set in. The reason why I’m doing this episode now is today is one of those days where I’ve canceled a few meetings and instead chosen to make a podcast episode. I have a client call later today, some project work to do, and then a bunch of music to play.

And that is my choice, but it’s also my choice to make sure that I’m choosing those things for my health. I think there are times where we will do things consistently and we get into a pattern almost like how you can probably drive to the grocery store without even really thinking about it. We just we just do it subconsciously. We’re just travel there and we’re good. Sometimes we’ll be thinking about something else or you know, maybe you’re texting or looking at your phone or whatever, and you just magically end up at the store.

Sometimes that happens in life more so than we think about it. Going to your office, picking up your kids, going out to meet with friends, whatever the things are, even if they’re novelty or something you don’t do all the time, you can still get in the habit and just be used to doing those things without actually asking yourself, why are you doing those things? Sometimes it’s also really tough to ask yourself, why am I still here? Or why am I doing this? Or

Nick McGowan (02:34.358)
Why with whatever it is? Could be a job, could be a relationship, could be something you’re experiencing inside, something that you’re trying to work on or work through. Either way, as those situations happen, we have an opportunity and a responsibility in some ways to be able to look at that and say, well, do I want this? Do I not want this? Is there something underneath that’s telling me, hey, something’s slightly off? And it can be really easy to not listen to that.

You’ve probably gone through things where you look and it’s let’s say the holiday season. Next thing you know, it’s summer. Here we are. I’m recording this in June. So by the time you listen to it, it’ll probably be July, middle of the summer. You might be on vacation, you might be doing different things. There’s a lot of pushing and pulling, of taking people different places or vacations. People come into town, or you go visit different people or

Just a weekend at the beach or the mountains or whatever that thing is. But those things aren’t always as restful as we need them to be. Sometimes the moment that we really need is a bit of a longer moment to just be restful.

So let’s just hang out for a second. Just rest. Are you in your car? Are you at the office? Are you at home? You have a lot of people around you. Are you like in a coffee shop with everybody doing their thing around you? No matter where you’re at, I challenge you to take this moment just to be. Now, if you’re driving, don’t close your eyes. just be, just be present, just be here.

And is there some feeling that comes up? Something that says, maybe this feels good, I don’t experience this enough, or something that says, you know, this feels really bad because I don’t feel like I can or should experience this. Those are telltale signs to tell us that there’s something that’s going on underneath. If we get past or through, or even around that, we think about there are times where we feel somewhat off.

Nick McGowan (04:51.146)
Let’s unpack that a bit. In those moments where you feel off, at least for me, when I feel off, there are different flavors to what’s off. The burnout that I feel at times is most often because I’m doing things that, yes, I may really enjoy those, because I really do my best to not do the things I don’t enjoy anymore. Obviously, there are responsibilities and things that we kind of have to do. Like, I don’t really want to pay for my car.

But I want to keep my car so I will continue to pay the car note, you know, like that sort of thing. but then there are other things that we do that if we just adjust those slightly or take a pause, just a beat for a second, step back and say, what am I feeling? What’s feeling off right now? I’ve learned with myself that I can ask those questions and go maybe within like a 24, 48 hour range. What happened yesterday? Or is there something coming up in a few days?

That I’m maybe concerned about or worried about or even just processing through. Like I have a I have a meeting coming up in a few days. It’s an event where I’m speaking and talking with lot of people and I’m excited. There’s also a little bit in there of like, what should I prep, or what else do I need to get ready for, or what have you. So we all have those little things that just they’re processing in the background. That’s different than not having the energy or the drive or the motivation even.

To start or continue on with the thing. It’s in those moments where we get to choose: do I just put some dirt on it and just keep going? Or do I pause for a second and say, what is up? Why am I feeling this? What am I actually feeling? I had an experience the other day where I was at kind of a crux point in a sense, like a fork on the road, where I could keep on a path. I was working on a client project and I was at a spot where

I don’t know, maybe another five, 10 minutes, and I could have been like, cool, I can put a bow on that. I can just move along and I can go do something else. But I felt for like a solid 15, 20 minutes leading up to this moment, just not right. Like I just didn’t want to do it anymore. There are different times where we as people can just like not want to do a thing. I don’t want to be here anymore. And you can just Irish exit or walk out or run or whatever. then there are other times where we think, well, I don’t want to be here because of something or some situation or this is

Nick McGowan (07:19.042)
Hard or tough or what have you. I go through those, like I’ll ask those questions. So I’ll take a little bit of a step back, especially in that moment. I sat back in my chair and was like, what am I feeling? Is it just that I don’t want to do this right now? That I just want to do something else? Like it is is it as simple as I just want to go walk outside for a minute? Like just not be in this energy? And asking those initial questions will help us understand if there’s something that’s really close to it. That we can say, it’s this thing.

Duh, let me just take care of that. And then we’re good and you’re good to go. I’ve experienced that where it’s like, well, I felt like this nagging thing was in the background. Like I need to go switch over the laundry or something like that. Be well, instead of just pushing that off, let me go do that. Let me just take the five minutes to do it, come back and be good to go. Then you’re done. You’re no longer thinking about that. That’s no longer processing back there. But that’s vastly different than there’s something underneath it all.

That is like, I don’t think this is the right time for you to do this. So that moment that I had, I went through, I went through my questions and was like, what is it? What am I feeling? What do I want? It wasn’t that I didn’t want to do the project. I could have just kept going with the project. It was literally one of those situations where I was like, you know, I could keep going on this thing and I could probably spend another three, four hours doing this. And it would have been okay.

But not exactly what I needed to do. And I knew that.

Nick McGowan (09:08.76)
So when I asked myself, do I really want to stop this or do I just want to keep going? Like I knew I was at a time where I could keep going. Again, I could do it for another three, four hours, be totally good. And then maybe at the end of that, go, my God, I don’t even want to look at my computer. Let me go do something else, like out of the house or wherever, you know. but I felt in that moment, like this is one of those really good moments where I go, Well, I could keep down this path and I’d probably be okay.

And not totally burn out or feel like I wasted the day or anything like that. Or I could sit here a little longer, another minute or two, and figure out what’s really underneath of it. So I ended up putting that project to the side, actually stopped at that moment, which I don’t think that I have OCD, but there are times where, and you’ve maybe experienced this, like if you just spent another five, 10 minutes on a thing, you would have gotten to a point where you go, cool, bow tied.

I’m able to put that to the side. Then when I come back, I can kind of start freshly with it. I just stopped. I was like, this is where I’m at. I’m done. When I opened the project the next time, it did take me an extra few minutes to go, all right, cool. I see what I did. Cool. Perfect. And I was able to move from there. So it’s not like it messed anything up, but in that moment, I didn’t really care. It could have put me back another half hour, or it could have potentially put me ahead by doing something different.

So stopping that thing, I felt the power that I have the ability to be able to say, no, and that doesn’t feel right for me to do right now. I also understand that this isn’t always the case for everybody. You can’t be in the middle of a meeting and say, I don’t want to be here right now and expect that it should just be okay. You can’t be in the middle of a conversation with your kid or your partner and just go, I don’t want to be here and expect that it’s going to be okay. That’s just not how those things work.

But in these different little experiences, and especially when we’re by ourselves, I think that’s where we get to work on this stuff. So if you’re in your office or you’re at home or you’re wherever you’re at, and you feel that moment of this doesn’t feel right for me to do. And you start to ask yourself, is it because I just don’t want to do the thing anymore? Or is it because I feel like I really want to go do something else? Like I’ve experienced that at times where I’m like, there’s some basketball game or something on. Like, I don’t want to do this thing. I want to go watch the game.

Nick McGowan (11:35.37)
And sometimes I will, sometimes I’ll do both, and you know, whatever. Like, but we get to figure that stuff out in those moments. So if you ask yourself in those moments, like, what’s going on? What am I feeling? Do I really want to do this? Do I not want to do it? Is it is there something underneath of it all? And really what I’m trying to get to is that underneath layer. Like, find what’s underneath, like what’s what’s boiling the magma underneath there? It’s starting to make the ground shake in a sense. Because then in that moment you’re able to understand if I put my energy into that.

That’s potentially going to help the rest of the energy that I have. And also probably that other project. So when I stopped working on that project the other day, I knew I could keep going. And there was a part of me that was like, man, you got it. Like you can just keep going. Just knock this thing out. Close this chapter of this project so you can move along to the next thing, which does make me feel really good. I love being able to kind of close things out and go, Great, I’m gonna hand it off to the client, or I’m gonna hand this off to this person. You take it.

Great, and I’m good, and I can move along to the next thing. I also know about myself that I’m a project person. I really love my projects. I’m multi-passionate, but I love digging into the things that I do. You may be similar. So if you enjoy that, it can be hard at times to stop on a project. But again, back to that moment. I stopped that project a little earlier than I wanted to and moved along through a series of a few different events that led me to a breakthrough. And the reason why I put it that way.

Is because it took me walking outside, getting in my car. I went to the post office because I had to drop some stuff off and came back, cleaned up the kitchen a little bit and went to the bathroom. It just like did odds and ends little things here and there, but also things that felt like I was led to do. Just like as simple as the bathroom. Like we know when our bladder’s like, yo, dude, you gotta go. So you just kind of walk your way on back. Same deal.

could feel it intuitively of like, I’m gonna go step outside. I’m just gonna run to the post office. I’m gonna clean up the kitchen. I’m gonna go to the bathroom, I’m gonna do this, gonna do that. Within about, I don’t know, maybe 15, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, something like that. Post office is only a few minutes away, so it’s not that big a deal. But within a short period of time, I was back at my computer and had my guitar in my hand. And I just felt more at ease.

Nick McGowan (13:59.862)
It’s not like there was better or some major difference, but I could feel a little lighter and a little more at ease. I’ve realized that that tells us that we’re doing something more right for ourselves. Not like we were doing things wrong before, but this is one of those things that feels more right to do. Great. It can also go against the system of the world that says you’re not doing enough, you’re not producing enough, you’re not.

Creating, you’re not blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I felt some of that where I was like, I’m not doing the project work stuff. That’s money and that’s clients. And I appreciate my clients. I appreciate the money. I love working with the people I do and like I’m on I’m on board with them and their projects and like I’m in it with them. And also can still pause that, take a step away, do some other things and work on our own projects. The main reason why I’m talking about this and that it stood out to me.

was I’ve been writing an album for several years. You’ve probably heard me talk about how I reformatted a hard drive about a year ago and lost everything. so I’ve started over again. And even in the past two months, maybe month and a half, two months, I’ve taken the songs that are going to go on my album and I’ve said, great, I’m here where they’re at with their demo, and just put them to the side and start it over.

I literally picked up my acoustic and just started to build the song again from a single player, a singer, songwriter, and just build it and then turn it to a band and all that stuff, et cetera. So I’ve been working through this and literally reworking these things. So that’s where I ended up getting to was one of these songs. I have been bashing my head in a way to try to figure out the chorus of one of the songs. And it’s just not feeling right. Just not.

If you’re creative and you have different projects you work on, you know there are things, even if it’s with your hands, like playing an instrument or woodworking and stuff like that, where you’re just not fully there yet. It’s not fully done. Like a a piece maybe isn’t fully sanded down or fully completed. We know when it is. We can feel it inside of us. And in that, I don’t know, maybe thirty, forty-five minutes or so that I was just messing around, just getting my energy right, I figured out the chorus.

Nick McGowan (16:24.566)
And it literally came from a frustration point of saying, I don’t like this. I really don’t know where to go with it. But I know that there’s something here. I know that I know the messages within it. I just need to hear it. I need to feel it and then let it come out of me. So I literally hit record and just let it come out of me. And it did. I don’t think this is going to be like one of those classic songs that people will cover and sing for.

eons, maybe, who cares? I don’t know. I don’t really care. But I know that that moment happened because of the other moments that happened. I took the moment to say something feels off. Huh. What do I do? Well, what can I do to feel on? You know? How can I make this change? And asking those questions and intentionally looking for the feeling that I would have inside for the intuition to go, go this way. Go that way.

Try this thing, do that. I’ve learned with my intuition, and I believe this is probably true with everybody’s intuition, that it’s giving us the truth and it’s suggesting things that feel deeply connected to our bodies. That could be get the hell out of this place, or that could be go run toward that person and talk to them, or whatever it is. And it’s not a mental thing. It’s an intuitive, it’s a body, it’s an energy thing that we feel, this is it.

This is where I’m going. This is where I feel led to. There was probably, I don’t know, a series of 10, 20 different ones of those, like little check-ins and stuff, just in that short, let’s say hour amount of time. The time from having the feeling and then starting to do things outside of that, and music and working on it and all, et cetera.

That to me is life. Like those moments where we get to actually think about that and break that down, especially right now, as you’re listening to this and as we’re talking about this and breaking this stuff down, this is a safe kind of lab space to be able to work on this stuff. It’s because when we do that work now, when we get into those situations, we then get to go, you know, I’ve been here before. Even if it was mental reps or

Nick McGowan (18:40.364)
I’ve been somewhere close to it or I feel a little bit more confident in being able to go into this, even if I don’t know exactly what the hell’s going on or how it’s going to work out or whatever. We’re more equipped in that moment. I think about it as like game tape with athletes. They’ll watch what they did and then they’ll watch how terrible they played or whatever it was and look at the nuances and changes. Not so they can go, man, all right, well, I want to go back to yesterday and redo the game. No, you can’t do that. At least science hasn’t shown us how to do that yet.

So they’ll take that and go, all right, cool. So next time when I’m in that exact spot, what I should do is actually go right instead of left and then pivot on one foot or whatever. They’ll lock that into their brain. Same for us. Like with that moment, I was like, something feels a little off. And I’ve learned from my years of doing this that I go, huh? Let me pause. What is it? And I don’t turn it into some big weird thing. Like, I mean, this is this is a teaching, an educational kind of experience in a sense.

Where you’re listening and taking this in to go, all right, cool, I hear you, dude. And yeah, next time I’m in this sort of situation, I can do this thing. But it’s not like I’m in those situations. I’m like, my God, this is the biggest thing ever. I’m so excited. No, most times it literally just happens and I’m like, fuck, what the fuck do I feel all for? And I’ll start to work through this. And I’ve realized that these frameworks that work for me, work for other people, but that they they all work in the way that they work.

Like I’m not a huge fan when somebody says, here’s a thing that I figured out. I don’t give a shit what your context is, just like go do it, and you will have the exact same experience. It doesn’t make any sense, like at all, because everybody’s context, everybody’s life, everybody’s experiences are so different. Even the same people who grew up the same way, the same house, experience different things. So those moments in that little framework, it’s just a series of questions of check-ins.

Which you can do with nobody knowing. So you can be in your office thinking, do I really want to be here anymore? What’s going on? Why really want to slap that person in the face? Cause the thing they just said was the dumbest thing I’ve heard all day. well, I’m typically not a violent person, so why do I want to slap them? You know, like thinking through that sort of stuff. but really taking a moment just internally to check in and say, What am I feeling? What’s happening right now? Because if you know at your

Nick McGowan (21:05.72)
Core that you are naturally one way, or your tendency is toward one way, and you’re off from that, then that’s a simple deduction. Like those two things aren’t aligned, you’re off. I know at my core, I’m naturally curious and really inquisitive. Like I ask a lot of questions, I’m super curious, and I see patterns and things, and I’m joyous and I get all excited.

I also know there are times where maybe I only slept four hours that night before. So I’m not naturally that way, but I can realize the difference between my body just feels drained, or I at a soul level feel drained. But it’s not often clear right up front. So my challenge to you is in those moments, next time one of those moments comes up where you feel slightly off, just pause and sit in yourself and ask what feels off.

Again, if you’re in like a meeting or in front of people or something, you’ll need to just do that quickly internally. And I say quickly in the sense that I don’t want you to get through it just to get through it. I want you to figure out as quickly as you can, intuitively, like what feels off. And just ask, all right, intuition, what feels off right now? And if you don’t hear anything right up front, okay. I think sometimes we can kind of calcify our intuition.

And make it hard to hear the certain things. And the more work that we do and the more hearing we can hear from it, the louder things get, the more we can feel that. I’ve seen that within my experience and that might be similar to yours. I’ve heard that is similar with other people as well. It’s like a muscle. The more you work it, the more you work and the more you can hear it. So doing this and asking these questions will also help with that, but also then help you understand there might be something that comes up that goes, man, you’re really upset about what happened this morning with you and your partner.

But here I am, six hours later in the middle of a meeting, talking about some production thing or some product or whatever the thing is. Understanding where you’re at and what feels off then gives us an opportunity and again a responsibility to either do something with it in that moment or to pause with it, kind of put a pin and then come back to it and do some work with it. If you’re able to do something in the moment, like I was in my situation, where I went, pause, I’m gonna go.

Nick McGowan (23:27.042)
Do something else because I can feel slightly off, then do that. If you can’t in that moment, then just get back to it a little later and get back to that feeling of what were you feeling in that moment. That’s why I like to be able to do this stuff as quickly as possible, because you’re right there and you’re feeling it. You don’t have to think back to it or try to get your body to remember what it felt like. You can then just go right there, like it just happened. I feel it right now. But taking the rest that you need.

And the moment to be able to understand what’s going on is vastly important. And oftentimes we can get so swept up in how life is and everything that’s going on that you wake up in the morning and the next thing you know, it’s 10, 11 o’clock at night, and the whole day has just flown by. I think about how sometimes we as people, and especially millennials, we seem to just be drawn toward toward our phones to just

have that dopamine after a little while. And I do that too. There are times where I’ll end up on Instagram or LinkedIn or Facebook or something for something silly. Like I pulled up, I I’m a group expert in a Facebook group for podcasters. I think there’s like 120,000 people in the group. It’s a pretty large group. So I’ll hop on every once in a while, look at somebody’s question or apply something back. And then next thing you know, it’s like 20 minutes later I’m just thumbing through looking at dumb shit. It’s like, but we as people

will subconsciously pull ourselves back to that because it’s familiar. It’s also a little dopamine hits, et cetera. And it’s in that moment of understanding that I’m aware of this right now, where we can go, I just want to put this down and go do something else. And those little moments where we get to do something else and the responsibility and the action that we take at that point actually helps us become better in those tougher moments.

Now that moment that I had of saying, I’m at a project point where I can stop or keep going, but I feel like there’s something else for me to do, isn’t the same pivot point of a building’s about to fall down or the world’s going to collapse. I I don’t know. I’m just making stuff up, but like these aren’t these aren’t life and death experiences. But there are times where that stuff can happen. And it’s this stuff now and these moments now when we can work on this to then be potentially in a better spot.

Nick McGowan (25:46.67)
It’s like you don’t know what’s going to happen in those times, but you can at least do the work leading up to it so that you know, look, I can probably handle this a little better than I would have been able to hadn’t I not done any of this work. So my challenge to you is take some rest. Take it this weekend. Take it over the course of the next week, two weeks during that rest, and whatever amount of rest that you get.

Just sitting there by yourself. And I’m not talking about sitting on your phone or

even reading or something like that. I’m saying just being, being with ourselves, because then we can listen to ourselves. And it can be really hard to do that at times, especially if you’re not used to it. No, for me, I get into just a rhythm with life where I’m just moving and grooving. There are times when I really understand I need to slow down and just listen. And it can be really loud, white noise to just sit there and listen. So my challenge is for you to do some of that in whatever capacity you can.

And whatever time that you have, if it’s 30 seconds, if it’s a minute, if it’s two hours, who cares? Just spend the time over, let’s say, the next week or even a few days to be able to check in with yourself and understand what am I feeling right now? What’s happening? What feels off? Or on the opposite side of that, what feels totally on. Because then we can say, these things aligned with me and make me feel really excited and really on.

How I do more of those things? Hell, that’s kind of how I got into the podcasting stuff. I’ve had my podcast for almost five years at this point, but started working with clients, podcasters, and thought leaders, maybe about a year into the podcast. And over the years, it’s just grown and grown. And I get more and more excited about working with people who are brand new or people who’ve been doing it for a little bit and trying to figure out strategy and just how all this stuff works. Because of all the stuff that I’ve done in the past.

Nick McGowan (27:48.166)
different moments I can look back to and go, I really didn’t like this one job, but I loved this part of it. And I loved meeting with these people who helped me understand this, et cetera. I guess an easy example, I’m very process driven because if I wasn’t, I would be all over the place. And I understand that about me. And I’ve also had it kind of beaten into me with different agencies I worked with and worked for, where we have to have a process in place. And that process allows us to kind of play jazz in the middle of it.

Makes total sense. Great. So now I incorporate that in basically everything I do. I use a project management tool for all of life and don’t always use it, but I still have it and I work on it and I do these things to be able to help myself be in a better spot where I can say, this is more of what I want. And that’s really what it’s about, being more aligned with who we are at our core and doing things more so of what we want because of that alignment.

Not like I just don’t want to be at my job, so I’m just gonna leave. Or I want to go spend forty thousand dollars on some crazy dragon PRS or something. Like, cool. I mean, you can do whatever you want, but in all reality, why are you doing those? Like, what is what’s the alignment with that? And what is the purpose to it? So again, thinking about the situation I went through, I could have kept working on the client project. I really enjoy my clients.

I enjoy the project work. I’m a nerd with this stuff, so I could keep at it. Or something feels off. I can go do something slightly different and then use that energy in a different way. I I hope I am able to do that a lot more throughout life. And I suspect I will be able to, because I’ve seen that I’ve been able to. Over the past few years, more and more and more and more of that happens, which is why I have more of these episodes to be able to talk about these things, because I want you to be able to understand.

Not only are you capable of doing this, but probably better of doing it than I am. And in your own way. This isn’t a competition. In fact, any of the stuff that I go through, I’ve learned that it’s really part of my responsibility to share. And the way that I look at it and how I’ve experienced these things, to share with other people, to then take that in their own lives. You might listen to this and go, cool, Nick, heard, but fuck, that sounds stupid. Okay.

Nick McGowan (30:14.316)
You might listen to this and go, Nick, that is wonderful. I felt the same thing. I appreciate the framework. I’m going to do more of this. Great. My job is just to share. Your job is to interpret the information, figure out what you want to do with it, and use some of it or not, and move along from there. My encouragement to you is to be able to take those moments of rest and really to be self-aware enough to see that you need that rest or that something is slightly off.

The more that we can do that in the smaller moments, the more it’ll add up in the long term. So if you need help figuring out how to go about this way, figuring out how to become more self-aware, or just really struggling with your mental health or overall mindsets and trying to figure out what self-mastery means for you, then reach out to me. Offer free clarity sessions to be able to figure out where you’re currently at, where you want to go, and how we can get there together.

And I would love to work with you and at least hear where you’re at with things. And if I can give you some free resources or guidance or wisdom, I’d be happy to do so. And also if it makes sense for us to work together on a mentoring perspective, I’d love to explore that with you. But please try this. Try, try, try this. Just take that moment. When you feel off, just take a moment to rest and ask yourself what feels off, and then move along from there.

Even if you don’t want help mentoring or don’t want to talk, totally fine. But I would love to hear from you how it has been working for you. Because I think these little pivotal moments for us start to shape things way down the road that we don’t know that we’re starting to work on, but we can do this work right now. So I appreciate you listening. I appreciate you being here. And I appreciate that you take this stuff and you do some work with it. Again, I’d love to hear how it’s working for you. And if you need some support and need some help.

Please reach out. And again, thank you for listening today.

In this episode, Nick speaks with Melissa Coloton about her journey from farm life to corporate sales. They talk about high-pressure anxiety and burnout, as well as insights on self-awareness, purpose, and holistic well-being.

What to listen for:

“Support systems are vital for growth.”

“We really focused on reconnecting with myself. It wasn’t like “you must stop having anxiety”. It was like “when you have anxiety, this is the connection point you have to have with yourself.”

About Melissa Coloton

Melissa is a Certified Life Coach and Sales Expert who helps businesses, sales professionals, and entrepreneurs create what she calls aligned success, where purpose, profit, and a fulfilling life all work together. With nearly 20 years of sales leadership experience spanning quota-carrying sales roles, strategy, and executive leadership, she has driven over $1 billion in new business and led high-performing teams to record-breaking growth, particularly in the life sciences sector.

After facing burnout and health challenges at the height of her career, Melissa transitioned to a more sustainable model of success and now serves as a trusted strategic partner to people navigating growth, leadership pressure, and pivotal decisions. She is the creator of The Honor You Method, a framework that blends mindset, emotional capacity, and execution strategy to support high-level performance without sacrificing well-being, and the host of The Honor You Podcast, where she explores building success that truly feels as good as it looks.

Resources:

Check out other episodes about anxiety and burnout:

Are you looking for ways to better manage your daily mindset, live a happier, more fulfilled life, and pursue the depths of your soul on your path to self-mastery?

Schedule a free clarity session with Nick to see if mentoring is a good fit for you.
Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Check out Nick’s website for more information: https://nickmcgowan.com/

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have?

Check out Nick’s website for more information: https://nickmcgowan.com/

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Thank you for listening!

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:01.462)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show we have Melissa Coloton. Melissa, how you doing today?

Melissa Coloton (00:11.678)
I’m good, Nick. How are you?

Nick McGowan (00:13.442)
I’m good. I’m good. I’m glad you’re here. we were just shooting the breeze talking about things podcasting and life and all of that. So I want to kind of continue the conversation, but why don’t you get us started? Tell us what you do for a living and what’s one thing most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre.

Melissa Coloton (00:15.767)
Me too.

Melissa Coloton (00:30.584)
Sure. So what I do for a living is I’m a certified life coach and sales expert and I combine those two things by helping people find success that really means something to them by putting purpose and profit together because one without the other will always make you kinda want more out of life. So I try to not be Pollyanna about purpose without profit and I try not to be too focused on profit because, you know, then if we get too into the weeds about that, then that’s all that matters to us and we

forget what our purpose is. So that’s what I do. And I spent about twenty years in corporate sales. So that’s my background and always wanted to be a life coach since my late twenties. So finally, finally, finally started doing the thing and combined those two very bizarre things and put them together. So actually they’re not bizarre things on their own, but putting them together is a little bit odd.

Nick McGowan (01:18.776)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (01:23.96)
And something that people would find odd about me, which I don’t know if it’s too odd, but I do think people are surprised when I say this, is I’m I’m in my blood, I’m a farm girl. So I grew up on a farm, my dad was a farmer, his dad was a farmer. So and I think people are surprised about that because, you know, I’ve spent a lot of time in corporate. So being very corporate y and wearing the jackets and all the things. And so when I say like I grew up basically in the middle of a field and ate dirt for

for the most of my childhood, people are like, wow, surprising. So yep. I I I would say that I present this, you know, very polished person, but I really do enjoy, you know, a good old backwood bonfire and grew up partying in fields. So yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (02:16.556)
Nice. I I I like how you slowly kind of got into that and you were like, Yeah, we party a lot in fields. Like that was how it is. Whole lot.

Melissa Coloton (02:22.552)
And we partied a lot. Like we had to party on state land because well there was nowhere really to go, right? Like we there was nowhere to go. So we just would all get together in State Land fields. That’s what we did. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (02:31.715)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (02:37.87)
Yeah.

That’s cool. I mean, we all have I think we all have situations growing up that some people were a little bit more partiers. I’m trying to be real mindful of how I put this. Some people like partied hard in their like high school years and others didn’t. And then they partied too hard in their early 20s when it was legal to go drink or whatever, and then they got out of it. Some like just never get out of it and like belly up to the bar at 65 years old and it’s the same bar they’ve been bellying up to. but I think there are there’s some like.

Melissa Coloton (02:53.068)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (03:10.606)
Crazy moments that you can think back to, I’m sure. There definitely are for me that have to do with some of those parties that I can look back at now and go, holy shit. Like I saw how life could have changed drastically. And also I saw how I learned to kind of manage things in a sense. Like, how do you manage a whole group of 40 people around a bonfire out in the middle of nowhere? Or like the cops are coming. How do you let everybody know? Or whatever that looks like.

Melissa Coloton (03:22.56)
Mm.

Melissa Coloton (03:39.754)
Right. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (03:41.4)
But I I can appreciate coming from basically somewhere that’s not corporate at all, and then ending up in corporate. Cause I’ve seen that with people that I’ve worked with at times that were some of the best workers I’d ever worked with, and some of the almost like hard nosed people I’ve ever worked with. And I think that came from their background of being on their farm. Like you had chores that most city kids didn’t have and like tough things that you had to figure out and what do we do? So I’m sure that

Melissa Coloton (04:03.776)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (04:11.138)
Did that help you, you think, when you got into not only corporate but sales?

Melissa Coloton (04:15.306)
Yeah. Yeah. I think it did a few things. Honestly, it definitely helped my work ethic. You know, I summers off were not a thing for me. I literally would hay it is what we called it, is basically get all the hay ready for the winter. And I remember me and my cousin, she was only a year older than me. We would fight about who would get the front of the wagon and who would get the back of the wagon. Because if you’re the back,

you had to start throwing when eventually you’d had start throwing the bales of hay to the front for the person to put it on the elevator and go up and dump it into the hay mill. And we would fight about that like literally like one of us would try to like try to get to the back and or try to get to the front so they didn’t have to be the one throwing bales of hay. So I definitely feel like it helped my work ethic plus like seeing my dad work like that. You know, my dad he he had to do chores before he went to school when he was in high school.

Nick McGowan (04:54.83)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (05:08.898)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (05:08.94)
You know, he would have to do chores and then he’d have to go do sports or whatever he did and come home and do more chores. So my dad, it wasn’t like he got that like childhood most people think of when they think of childhood. My my dad was worked with his dad. That’s what he did. And they found a way to make it fun. So I think that also helped me was like you can’t take yourself too seriously in an environment like that because shit hits the fan a lot. And if you lose your mind every time the shit hits the fan on a farm, like

Nick McGowan (05:31.96)
Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (05:37.584)
you’ll just go nuts. So I have a lot of stories from my my my dad and his aunt about how they grew up and and my grandfather and how crazy that all was. And they just have a lot of laughs about it because I really do think like you would go nuts. So I think that really helped my my work ethic in a really big way. I also feel like it it removed a lot of entitlement. And I’m not I’m not saying I don’t have any entitlement ’cause I think we all do to some degree. But I think it removed a lot of entitlement because

Nick McGowan (06:00.814)
Mm.

Melissa Coloton (06:07.146)
I didn’t really come into this world with all this money or like I wasn’t handed anything in my life. Like everything I did, I had to work really hard for. And so when you’re in sales, that serves you very well because you can then make things out of nothing. You know, I even in my sales career, I would get these territories and I’d be like, What the fuck? Like and and I’m like, and at first I was pissed about it, right? Like, why can’t I just get a main account or something like that? But I’m glad I didn’t.

Because I learned the art of making something out of nothing, making money where there was no money ig in existence yet. Like I always say, like in sales, especially like the sales the sales professionals that are like, I want an ac I want an active account or I want to tear the territory that’s already bloomed. I’m like, you should actually not want that for especially your first couple go go rounds, because you will learn a skill set that nobody will ever take from you and nobody will ever actually teach you. You will not.

You will not learn that in a book, you will not learn that in a podcast. You you have to just do it. And so, yeah, I see I think growing up on a farm helped me with those two things in a in a really big way.

Nick McGowan (07:06.689)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (07:15.896)
My God, I could imagine that you were in a much better spot to be able to handle really tough situations or like calculations of moves, but also probably you experienced different things that other people didn’t, like trying to think from like the opposite perspective. Like I mainly grew up in a city or like right outside of a city. and I’ve always been around a lot of people. So being in a corporate environment, like all the chaos, all the people talking, like you know, those meetings where it’s like.

Melissa Coloton (07:21.368)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (07:39.608)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (07:45.77)
One person should really be running it, but they’ve lost it. It’s off the rails at this point. Like everybody’s just jabbering about whatever the fucking thing is. And how do you pull that back? How do you not? Like, what’s your level of it? When does it not matter what your level is? And go, yo, you know, that sort of thing or whatever. but I I think that there’s stuff that we as people can really try to find the easiest way through. Like we’re seeing a lot of it with AI now. Everybody’s trying to write books and they’re trying to do all these things.

Melissa Coloton (08:09.24)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (08:13.25)
Because they just need to create and they need to do all this. When in all reality, what they’re really doing is saying, well, I have to make money. And I’m told that I have to do more. So I have to do more to make the money, but I don’t have enough time to do it. And I don’t really know what the fuck’s going on. And in sales without AI, we’ve experienced that stuff where you’re like, there’s a lot going on. There’s a lot of moving parts and pieces. And I don’t have enough in my pipeline. And but that’s just a small piece from a salesperson. And we all experience stuff like that.

But you ended up getting to the point where you’ve done a lot, you work through, and yeah, you can look back now and go, I was really appreciative of having that. You weren’t then, because you typically aren’t, where you’re like, Are you fucking kidding me? Nobody’s here. This is nonsense. But when you learn and you work through it, you can see the silver lining of it. But that’s not always the case with getting burned out. So talk to us about not only the journey of like looking back at that and going, I can see where I’m starting to burn and where I was starting to smolder.

Melissa Coloton (08:54.22)
Yeah. Right.

Melissa Coloton (09:03.734)
Right.

Melissa Coloton (09:11.032)
Mm.

Nick McGowan (09:12.642)
But then also what that journey looked like. You shared a bit of that even before we started, of like taking it kind of category by category of our I’m gonna work through this, like the mind, body, soul, et cetera. So what did that look like for you?

Melissa Coloton (09:23.649)
Yeah.

Yeah, you know, hindsight is wildly twenty twenty, right? so honestly, when it when when I would say my burn burning out or burnt outness started showing its ugly head, I I truly blamed it on life situations, how hard I had worked, like that kind of stuff. Cause at the time I also had a a friend that was dying of cancer. So

it was life combined with work. And even up until I would say, even just recently, honestly, like I would say like literally probably within the last six to twelve months, this has come to me a little bit clearer. And that is it wasn’t necessarily how much I was working. Right. It it wasn’t necessarily even the work I was doing.

It was the lens in which I was seeing it all. And that was being very performative, n really afraid to fail. Like really, really afraid to fail. And I say this with a huge grain of salt because I love my parents, but they my parents were very young when they had me. Sh my mom was 18 when she had me. She was 16 when she had my brother. And so they were like kids raising kids. And so I think my mom put on this suit of like

My children are not gonna have the life that I had. They are gonna have a different life in me, which served me very, very, very well. Also, it created a monster in me that was like, you have to succeed, period. Like no matter what, you have to succeed and you cannot fail. And I and I often had these experiences with my mom where I’d like, I remember this one time I got a C in French. Like, French, like who fucking cares?

Nick McGowan (11:19.835)
Melissa Coloton (11:21.184)
I’m not gonna move to Paris. Like, we’re okay. And she like just lost her shit on me. Like, just like, what the fuck are you? Like, she didn’t swear, but basically she was like, What the fuck are you doing? Like, if you can’t get better grades than this, you’re not gonna go to she always held sports over my head because I loved playing sports. So that was always one where she could really get me and to do whatever she wanted me to do. Cause I’d be like, my god, I need to go to sports. and so as I got older and I started working in these really

Nick McGowan (11:27.405)
Mm.

Nick McGowan (11:35.864)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (11:41.102)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (11:50.251)
immense pressure cookers. I mean, Nick, there were my biggest opportunity I ever had was over a hundred million dollars. And that was just in service fees. So together it was actually probably more like a $200 million deal. So I would get in these pressure situations and instead of being like, I got this, I’d be like, this has to come together. Like, and and it was more of like a lens I saw my work through than it was the actual work I was doing.

Nick McGowan (12:01.41)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (12:12.622)
Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (12:19.946)
So I started getting these weird bursts of anxiety at very odd times, which is why I kind of shoved it aside. Cause it wasn’t like I would be in the middle of a meeting and be like, my God, I’m about to have a panic attack. It would be more like weirder times, like specifically when I was driving. Like when I would drive, I would get really anxious. And I was just like, that’s weird. And I just kept putting it off, kept putting it off, kept putting it off, kept putting it off. And then one day I couldn’t. Yeah. It was just I was driving on the way to work and

Nick McGowan (12:31.874)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (12:43.758)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (12:47.661)
Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (12:49.954)
complete meltdown. Like pulled off the highway, tried to get back on, pulled off the highway, tried to get back on. I couldn’t do it. Thank God at the time I was working for my boss was my friend. So I was able to call her and say, I don’t know the fuck’s wrong with me, but I cannot come to work today. And I was supposed to like, my team was coming into town. I was supposed to be leading meetings and all this stuff. She’s like, don’t worry about it. Go home. Get some rest. And I thought it would be a blip on the radar. I was like, I’d be fine tomorrow. Right. And I figured I could probably

Nick McGowan (13:07.214)
You can

Nick McGowan (13:11.51)
Mm.

Nick McGowan (13:17.624)
Yeah. Tomorrow, yeah.

Melissa Coloton (13:19.768)
Keep keep pushing it aside. I woke up the next day and had just anxiety, like just major chronic anxiety. Couldn’t drive, I couldn’t even drive a quarter. I don’t exaggerate this. And when it’s funny when people when I’ve told people this story afterwards, like people who know me really well, they’re like, they literally think I’m lying. And I’m like, no, I don’t think you understand. Like I could not get in my car and drive a quarter mile down the road without being like, I gotta, I gotta go home. I gotta go back home. So

Nick McGowan (13:39.768)
Mm.

Melissa Coloton (13:48.077)
That led to work with a a practitioner near where I live and he’s a life coach and an acupuncturist. And so I’ve I’ve been seeing him ever since that day, which has been, I think the summer will be eight years now. And yeah, and and we really focused on reconnection to myself. And when I did get it’s like he didn’t he wasn’t like you must stop having anxiety. It wasn’t it wasn’t like that. It was like when you have anxiety, this is

Nick McGowan (14:02.478)
Nice.

Nick McGowan (14:12.76)
Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (14:17.356)
the connecting point you have to have with yourself because I didn’t, right? It was like, it was very much like a keep it moving. And anything I felt in my body or anything that I anything that I felt anywhere, it was like, no, I ain’t got time for this shit. And I even remember going into his office being like, the fuck, like this I I just don’t have time for this. Like I I leg legitimately remember thinking that. Like and then I remember sitting in his office for the first time, him telling me that I don’t have a relationship with myself.

Nick McGowan (14:24.685)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (14:37.375)
Mm.

Melissa Coloton (14:46.678)
And I’m like, excuse me. Like I I just thought I was one of the most authentic people and all this stuff. So it took some took some work to even understand what was really going on with myself. And so that led to a lot of connection with self, a lot of soul work, what’s really in my heart. When I do have anxiety, what does that mean? What do I need to console? How do I need to function in that experience? And actually welcoming anxiety, because I believe that like when you have these feelings.

It’s your soul being like, Hey, I need some attention here. Like, what about me? And so I was just playing the game of like, I don’t care about you. I’m gonna keep it moving. So that was a lot of our work in the beginning. And then when that got really, really solid, I was like, but actually there’s mind, body, and soul here. And so now I’m really in a big era of f fo focusing.

a lot on my mind because I can really see now because I meditate a lot more now and I can really see the thoughts that I I come up with on a fairly regular basis. And I can see the through line and I can see the thread. And then I can take that and command my mind to think a different thought. And then it becomes a belief and then I’m just at a better place, generally speaking. So yeah, and then the body is just kind of more the obvious one I would say, you know, I’m very keen on taking care of my body and

Nick McGowan (16:01.069)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (16:09.514)
not drinking like god awful amount of caffeine just to get through the day and stay focused and like you know like because that’s what I was doing for a while there. so I hope that kind of paints a picture of what I experienced. It was not pretty and there was a lot to it and there were very dark days. I remember I never thought this before and I only actually told one person this when it was happening. And not even my husband, I told my best friend I was like if in if I

Nick McGowan (16:13.43)
Ha ha ha.

Melissa Coloton (16:40.17)
If I’m gonna feel like this for the rest of my life, like I actually don’t think I wanna live like this. And and it wasn’t necessarily a a true like thought of you know what, but it was the start of one for sure. Cause I was like, I don’t wanna live like this. Like, this isn’t living. That’s how terrible I felt on a regular basis. So, you know, I definitely went on anti-anxiety medication. I was told I had major depressive disorder. When they said that to me, I was like,

Nick McGowan (16:43.928)
Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (17:07.296)
What did you just say to me? Like it was still like, what the fuck are you talking? What what are any of you people talking about? So it really took me a while to not be in denial. And then when I wasn’t and it was finally like a okay, I will okay, yeah, I get this. Like this is where I’m at and this is what I’m gonna have as I have to deal with this. So yeah, I’m really thankful for my practitioner and all my friends and all my family and everybody I worked with was amazing at the time, thank God.

Nick McGowan (17:08.632)
Mm.

Melissa Coloton (17:37.541)
my my boss didn’t tell anybody, you know, like people didn’t really know that I was that I was in that state of being when I was at work and I still was able to to get through, but it took a while and then I finally came off anti anxiety medicine and went back on them one time and that was at the height of my executive and and again I I kinda got to that place of I hope nobody figures out I’m an idiot or you know, I have to be perfect or

Nick McGowan (17:37.901)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (18:06.038)
You know, what if I don’t meet my target? Like there’s just a again, it was in that pressure cooker moment. And I was just like, I’m gonna like move all these things aside and pretend they’re not there. So I kind of did a solid two rounds of that. The second round wasn’t nearly as bad as the first because I had the tools, but there was definitely elements of that s that same initial experience again. It just wasn’t as bad as the first time because I think I had tools, but it eventually got me to the place where I was like.

Okay, something for real needs to give. Like this is not sustainable for me. This is not what I’m supposed to be doing. I think the second round I was a little bit more in that thought process of like, I’ve tried to make this work in corporate. I’m just forcing it at this point. So

Nick McGowan (18:39.638)
Mm.

Nick McGowan (18:52.984)
I think that’s critical. Like we, as people, can look at things that we’re told to do. Like you need to go to college, you need to go to school, you need to get married, you need to have kids, you need this, you need that, blah, blah, blah. And those things change with every generation. Like even our parents that were like, You’re gonna have a better life than I did. So I’m gonna do things. And it’s like everything you’re gonna do, you’re still gonna fuck up your kid somehow, because you’re gonna say something weird or something’s gonna happen, they’re gonna interpret it weird or whatever. They’re just different human.

Melissa Coloton (19:05.005)
Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (19:16.512)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (19:20.312)
But we take all these things and we think we have to be a certain way, especially from a from a corporate perspective, not even corporate, from somebody who works in larger organizations with a team of people and a lot of people counting on you from different departments, not just from sales, but production needs things from you. They need you to bring in sales, like all the different stuff that goes along with it, where we can get so stuck thinking it’s all on me, it’s all this, it’s all whatever it is. And that’s

Melissa Coloton (19:34.221)
Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (19:39.948)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (19:48.568)
typically never ever the actual problem. I find that there’s a lot of times where it’s a misalignment problem where we’re not aligned with what we’re doing, but we don’t want to fucking have that conversation with ourselves to be able to do that. Biggest thing that you pointed out was you did work and then you did more work and then you did more work after that. And now you’re still doing a lot of work. So big moral of the story is keep doing the work because those things will start to clear up. Like the spot you’re in

Melissa Coloton (20:01.4)
Correct. Right.

Melissa Coloton (20:10.68)
Hundred percent.

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (20:17.666)
With whatever you’re at, just like the people that are listening that are like, well, I’m in a spot right now with either my company or the company I work for. And really in the back of their minds, they’re like, what the fuck? How do I change? What, what do I even where where do I start? What what happens? Like, what’s the first thing I look at? It I think about it like you know, those junk drawers or even a junky closet that everybody has. Like if you really want to clean that thing out, you have to take everything out. And then you have to audit it.

Melissa Coloton (20:44.202)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Nick McGowan (20:46.018)
And that’s such a fucking project. And no one wants to do it with their junctur, let alone themselves. But they get to the point where they’re like, I can’t not. I have to because I can’t anymore. I don’t want to be here. Wait, if I don’t want to be here, what else does that look like? And then things start to crumble a bit. I think the big thing that you’re saying with doing the work is that there’s consistent work that needs to happen, but then there’s also clarity that comes with that that opens up other doors.

Melissa Coloton (20:48.332)
Yeah.

No. Right.

Right.

Nick McGowan (21:13.442)
Like I see things at times where it’s like I open one door and there’s forty more. And I open another door and there’s four thousand more. And I’m like, fuck, should I turn around? Cause there were less doors this way. Like, what what’s going on here? It’s because of that self awareness. yeah. Yeah. And you’re like, where do I pull that thing from?

Melissa Coloton (21:22.408)
Yeah.

It’s like Jenga, right? Call this one out. What’s about to happen?

Nick McGowan (21:31.534)
And that that’s a really good point. I think a lot of people live in a Django-like state and they don’t really know it. And anything could crack them. I think it’s on us to be able to be self-aware enough to see like, hey, there’s something there. But it can still like it even gets the best of all of us, no matter how much work we’ve done. It’s how quickly you can kind of snap back in a sense and go, you know, I see what I did there for future next problem. Let’s do something a little different.

So looking back at that stuff, because here we are in a podcast where this is easy to talk about. But this is also, I think about it as like a lab sort of situation where we go, cool. If we do the work now, by the time you get in that situation, even if you think back and go, those two fucking people were talking about this thing, I remember this. Here’s what they said. Like that’s the point of like, how do we do work now? So that when we’re in that spot, we go, you know what, I’ve been here before. Let me do something a little differently, or at least catch where we’re off. And what I mean by that is like mindset wise.

Melissa Coloton (22:14.496)
Yeah. Right.

Melissa Coloton (22:26.848)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (22:29.772)
I’ve been in situations where my mindset was, I’m going to not fuck this up. I’m going to do the best situation I can. I’m going to do whatever I can, like I’ve learned some things, and I think too hard about it. I’m too mindset with it because I’m so dead set on just like seeing the thing through instead of understanding context and the situation. And I had something years ago where I literally reacted to my partner at the time. She said something and I reacted and like felt my

Melissa Coloton (22:42.22)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (22:58.786)
being split where I was like, yo, dude, don’t you say another fucking word. And I could literally hear myself go, shut up and get the fuck out of the house. And I was like, and one more thing. And it was like, motherfucker. Because like it’s already out there and you can’t do anything. But even that level of self-awareness to go, shit. All right, I did that. So what do I do differently this time? The work has to keep adding up. So now that you’re able to look back at that stuff and say, look, I’ve done a lot of this work. I keep doing work for somebody who’s in

Melissa Coloton (23:00.288)
Mm.

Mm.

Melissa Coloton (23:08.93)
Yeah.

no.

Nick McGowan (23:28.128)
a a spot either in their own business or something that where they’re managing like you did where you’re like there’s this and there’s that. I don’t want people to find out that I don’t really know what the fuck’s going on. Like what what sort of things did you figure out that worked for you because your energy that would align with them and might be in a similar spot where, hey, I need to do this sort of thing from a mechanism standpoint of like breathing or standing out of my energy or whatever to then get to the point where I can actually do something about my mind. So like what did that look like for you?

Melissa Coloton (23:49.676)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (23:56.417)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, not to be too prescriptive, but the way I describe my, I guess, set of tools, if you will, is is honoring yourself. And that’s a really big perspective I have now in POV of looking at situations and life as a whole. And that just means, you know, recognizing, respecting, and responding to your emotional, spiritual, physical, and mental needs the best you can. Right. And just

Nick McGowan (24:09.324)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (24:24.888)
external circumstances or societal norms or, you know, anything that might pull you away from really truly hearing all those things about yourself and knowing what it is you really want. And too many people, especially now, because we’re getting super influenced by mega externals. Like before it was probably just our parents and maybe our school and maybe our friends. And now it’s

The whole world is influencing you in a really big way. And may and maybe T V. Like we had what, a couple of channels, right? And commercials, sure, whatever. But like I know, I think I kinda am though. I kinda am. You know, I’m I’m definitely of the age where you had to sprint to the bathroom or get some new snacks before the the commercial was over. My brother would be like, It’s pretty

Nick McGowan (24:51.181)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (24:55.916)
We’re not that old. Calm down. We had to get up and actually hit the switch and like the rabbit ears.

Nick McGowan (25:10.434)
yeah. Same, I get that. Well before TiVo. Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (25:18.22)
But but yeah, I think there’s just, you know, there’s a lot of influence. And so how do you understand what you truly want, what you truly need? How do you recognize that? How do you respect it? And I say respect because, you know, a lot of people do the mindset work where they’re like, Shut up, mind. Well, that’s not respectful to your mind, right? Like, why are you treating a major part of who you are disrespectfully? Not saying I never do it, but that’s not the way to go. Like, that’s not going to leverage.

your mind, your body, and your soul to get what you want out of life and perform at a really high level if that’s what you want and whatever you’re doing. Cause when I say perform at a high level, I don’t mean like you’re some CEO or something. I mean this can be parenting. This can be being a friend. This can be, you know, picking up a new hobby and just enjoying it. And so that’s my POV on it all. And I really I’ve really thought a lot about this ’cause I wanted to try to containerize what I experienced so other people might use it as a tool.

And there’s a lot more layers to that. When I say honor yourself, there’s a lot of layers to that because there’s a lot of layers to your mind and your body and your soul and your emotions and how to deal with all of that. but that’s a that’s effectively the way I look at it. And, you know, a lot of people spend their time focusing on, you know, what’s my purpose? What’s my purpose? And within the honor you thought process, my my definition of that is fulfilling your soul’s desires. And that can mean

You want to start baking cakes because that’s fun to you. And that can mean also that maybe you ha wanna have start a family. That can also mean you wanna be in marketing, right? So so many people are focused on purpose with regard to thinking one thing and one thing only in life. And it’s like no wonder we’re driving ourselves bonkers with this, right? So I think if I were to offer anything to your listeners, I would say that.

start thinking about what does honoring yourself mean to you specifically and know that purpose is not just one thing. It’s fulfilling your soul’s desire. So your job in life is to figure out what does your soul actually want at any given point and having like giving yourself the permission to make make changes around that if that if that is appropriate for you at the time. And knowing that when you are having anxiety or stress symptoms is what I like to call them too is when there’s when you’re experiencing things.

Melissa Coloton (27:40.065)
It’s not to be ignored. It’s actu it’s actually to be recognized, respected, and responded to in an appropriate way so that you don’t find yourself waking up one day and be like, How did I get here? And you know, I call it the ants marching syndrome or like, you know, going down the river syndrome, right? You just jump on a raft and you get told what to do to your point earlier. You get told go to college, get married, have children, stay for retirement, retire and die. Like gross. Yeah. Like what are we even doing?

Nick McGowan (28:06.316)
No thanks.

Melissa Coloton (28:09.344)
And a lot of people are going check, check, check, check, check. And then they get to a point where they’re like, What am I actually doing right now? Like I’m not very happy. So then, of course, what ends up happening is everybody starts reaching externally and trying to figure out where the happiness is for them. And that looks better on some people than others. You know, it’s like some people get really fucked up trying to do that because they’ll reach for drugs or alcohol or a whole like plethora of things that don’t serve them. So

Nick McGowan (28:37.25)
Hmm. Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (28:38.508)
Yeah, it’s a really long-winded way, but that’s that’s my POV now because I didn’t do any of those things before. I just I I was on the river of life and it was working really well for me because I was making good money. I had you know, just kept going up in the in the ladder, right? That’s what I’m supposed to do. And then before you know it, I was not happy. I had tons of stress symptoms, and I did that twice.

The first time being a lot worse than the second time because the first time I didn’t have any of these tools. At least the second time it was like, shoot, here I am again, completely dishonoring myself, doing things that are not what I desire. And I’m just doing it for the money effectively, or to kind of show I could do it or prove a point or not fuck up. Like it wasn’t it wasn’t out of pure joy, I’ll tell you that. So

Nick McGowan (29:25.464)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (29:30.956)
Yeah. Most things that we do aren’t out of pure joy because we feel we have to do certain things, etc. I think you brought up a really good point. I’m glad you bring this up. In fact, I appreciate when anybody brings up the word purpose because we can all look at purpose differently. It’s wild to me when people think that there’s one purpose. Like this is the one thing you’re here to do. And I’ve I’ve learned that that’s not the case, that it’s more so contextual based on the time, where we’re at, like.

Melissa Coloton (29:34.837)
Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (29:51.808)
Worst.

Nick McGowan (29:59.458)
You and I have podcasts 40 years ago. If we were born in the 50s or 60s, we wouldn’t have had a podcast because it didn’t, it wasn’t a thing at that point, but it would have shown up differently. So us being able to take how we show up in the world, what our flavor is, and what we bring to just being authentically us is the most important component of that. But it’s hard for us to get through those layers at times.

Melissa Coloton (30:08.585)
Right.

Right.

Melissa Coloton (30:22.519)
Mm.

Nick McGowan (30:25.996)
Like everything that you’re saying, it’s like there’s a deeper foundational layer to it. Even of like, well, I’m doing this because I want to look better, or I’m doing this because I want to do that. Like there’s a level of self awareness to that. And also, what the fuck? Why? Why, why are you doing in that sort of way? And what are you trying to get out of it? I I’ve I get really worried for some people at times when they get stuck in those loops, because you’ve seen stuff like when you’re a

Melissa Coloton (30:39.423)
Ha ha ha.

Melissa Coloton (30:44.802)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (30:53.142)
And I don’t wanna say ahead or above or anything. You’re just at a different level of your own journey where you can look and go, man, I see you’re gonna drive directly into a wall. I wanna help you. But if you don’t want any help, then fucking at least put your buckle on, like, just see, please, like, please don’t die. but I do think it’s important for us to understand what our purpose looks like through the work that we do. So think about what you’ve done in sales. You’ve learned a lot from sales.

Melissa Coloton (31:03.231)
Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (31:07.479)
Right.

Melissa Coloton (31:10.838)
Right. Mm.

Melissa Coloton (31:16.29)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (31:22.798)
You learned a lot from the farms, learned a lot from what your parents did, what they didn’t do, all these things. And that all ties into work that you do now. But you needed to go through and experience all those things so you can go, hold on, time out. I need to look at this differently. What do I do? How do I get past this, et cetera? And how do I actually do this work? If you were just to tell somebody, hey, you need to do these 400 things that I did, your list was probably 40 times that. But like that, even that list, they’d be like, no, hell no.

I don’t want any parts of that. Do you think I can just throw it into Claude and Claude will fix it for me? Or you think I can have AI do a thing for me or whatever? Because there’s a deeper foundational layer to that of us all trying to do more instead of understanding there’s systems at play that are telling us we’re not enough instead of going, well, what am I here for? What do I actually need to do on this planet? So for the people that are on their own path towards self-mastery, what advice do you give them to show up and be them on this planet?

Melissa Coloton (32:10.53)
Right. Right.

Melissa Coloton (32:19.498)
Yeah. I I would say don’t outsource. I know you really triggered me when you just said that. Cause so many Yeah, really like it really is like people and but you know, and I would say that anyway, probably because we we even if right before AI, even before AI, we’re outsourcing to the external. We’re really outsourcing to what are people gonna think and

Nick McGowan (32:26.798)
I didn’t mean to set you up for that one.

Melissa Coloton (32:47.998)
what if I do this or what if I don’t do that? And some of some people external, you know, look for the external to fix their emotions instead of just feeling them, right? Or trying to cover them up. So there’s it’s the you know, it’s the tale of of time, right? It’s just like something we’ve always done and we probably will always continue to do. And it’s just getting in a different context now. So I would say like, you know, don’t don’t outsource your

Nick McGowan (32:55.501)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (33:15.818)
life and don’t outsource help having something external help you figure out what it is that you love and what it is that you enjoy. And I always say emotions, your excuse me, your soul speaks in emotions. And if we can really not just intellectualize that, but truly understand that, then we’ll start paying attention a lot more. Like, boy, that made me feel real shitty when that person talked to me that way. Okay, what’s that about?

Nick McGowan (33:40.034)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (33:43.051)
Is it really cause the person that talked to me that shitty or is it because like I’m grew up with my mom talking to like that and it just triggers the fuck out of me because it might trigger me, but not you, right? Or like there’s been times where I’ve come home and told my husband, like, Can you believe blah blah blah? And he’s like, not really seeing and like

Nick McGowan (34:00.82)
Yeah, I can’t no. Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (34:02.942)
You better agree with me. So I I really think that an ability to not outsource things in your life that are so important, which are the things that matter, which are your purpose essentially. Like not to be cliche or too esoteric about it, but pay attention to where you’re at, you know, pay attention to your thoughts. I mean meditate. I like

Nick McGowan (34:18.284)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (34:30.752)
On my podcast not long ago, I like literally yelled at people. I was just like, If if you’re too busy to meditate, like the fuck are you even talking about? Like if you sit in a line to pick your kids up for twenty, thirty minutes, like close your eyes for a second and just like focus and see what see what you’re like, watch your thoughts, see what happens. You know, like people are just so busy. There’s like, I can’t have I can’t find time for that. No, you actually can’t sit with yourself for more than 10 minutes without picking up your phone or like watching a TV. Like

Nick McGowan (34:56.034)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (34:58.232)
Pay attention to that. Like that means something. So yeah, I mean I I just think we’re widely outsourcing and w it’s getting probably worse before it’s getting better, unfortunately. but I just think it’s a different version of it now than it probably was however many hundreds of years ago. So, yeah, I would say don’t outsource and you know, on the tail end of that I would say like don’t sit in your shit and then complain about it being stinky either. Right? There’s a time and a place to to

to mourn things or to be upset about things or to f really feel things and and experience them one hundred percent from an emotional standpoint. But it’s gotta go through the cycle. We can’t get stuck in part of the cycle, right? I always I always talk about like things are very cyclical as as it relates to nature. And if you get stuck in winter, you get stuck in spring. You like you just can’t do that. You have to keep it moving and let it go through this whole cycle. And yeah, don’t complain if

You’re sitting in your shit constantly and and you’re c you’re like saying, why does it stink all the time? It’s like, Well, because you just sit there and you’re shit

Nick McGowan (36:01.198)
Look at it. Yeah. I think it’s a good point too to point out that it you shouldn’t outsource everything. We actually need to do more of our own work on our own to figure out what parts of it and all. And also that doesn’t take away from reaching out to other people or specifically having practitioners or different modalities that you go through to be able to help you with those things because we can’t just mindset our way through it.

Melissa Coloton (36:12.917)
Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (36:25.217)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (36:27.65)
We can’t just think about those things and we can’t say like it’s going to be okay. There are different times you have to do work. As you know, you do that work. But being able to take from that to say that those things that we keep coming up against that keep rubbing us a weird way or making us feel some sort of way, that’s the crux moment where I think it can be easiest to just go, well, that sucks. I don’t like the thing. And then the run away instead of being like, this keeps coming back. So what do I do with it?

Melissa Coloton (36:28.064)
Right.

Melissa Coloton (36:35.362)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (36:47.436)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (36:51.778)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Nick McGowan (36:55.96)
Because then that’s really the start. Like you may have to talk to somebody. You may just have to sit by yourself for a few minutes to go, well, what the fuck? What is the thing? But you’re still going to need to go through that process to do it. and it helps us uncover what our purpose is through that to go, I don’t want to do this. I want to do more of that. And really when I wake up, I really want to do these things. But I’m in this spot now. So how the fuck do I get there?

Melissa Coloton (37:02.636)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (37:18.744)
Great, that’s the next part of your journey instead of being like, well, that shit sucks and stinks. And everybody, welcome. I’m Linus. You know, like it doesn’t make sense.

Melissa Coloton (37:27.158)
Yeah. And I mean, I’m certified life coach, so one hundred percent I I think people need to get the support. And I would say even in that scenario, right, you can’t get addicted to getting everything you need. You know, if that if you are talking to someone and they’re not giving you tools to slowly but surely like, you know, when I first started seeing my life coach and acupunctures, it was every week.

Nick McGowan (37:41.88)
Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (37:53.933)
Then it went down to every two weeks and then it went down to every month. And now it’s mostly monthly, but I ca you know, I can definitely skip months now. Whereas before it was like, God, right? So one hundred percent and that’s kind of what I mean by like sitting in your own shit too. Like if if you’re stuck somewhere and you just can’t find your way out of that, I mean, there was literally no way I was gonna get out of my situation with anxiety by myself. I mean, right, like I even I

Nick McGowan (38:20.216)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (38:22.38)
Went to a doctor, had medication, tried to see a counselor. She was awful, no offense, but she was. So I finally landed where I landed with my life coach and acupuncturist. I wouldn’t have been able to do that solely by myself. And he didn’t tell me what to do every second of every day. He taught me how to live with myself and connect with myself. And I took that very seriously. And for a while I intellectualized it because I think we all do that, right? I’m a very like, I get it. I get it.

Nick McGowan (38:49.698)
You have to.

Melissa Coloton (38:52.332)
But then there’s gotta be, there’s gotta be a component of embodying it and actually really truly doing that that work and not just being like, I get it. Cause what ends up happening is like you’ll be okay, I get it, I get it. And then the slightest little change in the breeze will knock you over. And now you’re just right back to where you were, right? So that’s where I was for a good while. I’m like, I get it, I get it, I got this. Like I can do this, ’cause that’s how I’ve been my whole life, right? Like, tell me I’ll do something, I’ll fucking do it. You only gotta tell me once.

Nick McGowan (38:56.962)
Mm.

Nick McGowan (39:11.544)
Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (39:22.096)
And and and but then when with that situation I did that and then like the slightest little thing would happen and I’d be kind of right back to square one, you know, it’s like monopolies like or whatever one of those board games where you have to go all the way back to the beginning all the time. So so after a while it was like, wait, this is what I’ve been doing my whole life is intellectualizing it and not actually truly connecting with my soul. So one hundred percent agree with you. There

Nick McGowan (39:37.208)
Yeah.

Melissa Coloton (39:49.931)
that’s why people exist is to help each other in my mind, you know, in some way, shape or form. And so find that good practitioner that you can trust and won’t just let you, you know, wallow in your own shit and just have you keep coming back every week with no changes. You know, if that’s the case, then there’s probably a different practitioner for you.

Nick McGowan (40:10.529)
That’s yeah, that’s a friend at that point. Like you should stop paying them and just hang out with them if that’s what you want to do. but you’re you’re right, it’s it’s all on us. and being open to those resources, I think is really the driver of what I think about. Like going, all right, well, I’m aware of this thing. What the fuck’s near me, what’s around me? And then actually going through the layers of how do I talk to that person or what do I do? Blah, blah, blah. But being able to ask those from the initial question of what’s going on inside is going to help you. so I appreciate you getting into that, especially getting into purpose work. That’s

Melissa Coloton (40:13.432)
Right.

Melissa Coloton (40:22.555)
yeah.

Melissa Coloton (40:36.76)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (40:40.172)
Always important on the show. So thank you so much for being with us today. Before I let you go, where can people find you and where can they connect?

Melissa Coloton (40:41.496)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Coloton (40:48.128)
Yeah, the best the best place is my website, which is just melissacoloton.com. I also host a podcast myself called the Honor You Podcast. I love it when people go check that out, of course. Those are probably two the two of the best places, and that’ll direct you to all the socials and all that fun stuff. Yeah. Awesome.

Nick McGowan (41:05.23)
Cool. And I’ll have all that stuff in the show notes. Again, thank you so much for being on the call today.

Melissa Coloton (41:10.018)
Thanks for having me, Nick. It was a great conversation.

In this episode, Nick reflects on The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show reaching 200 episodes. He shares personal growth, lessons learned, and insights on self-awareness, trauma, purpose, and authenticity.

What to listen for:

“I felt like there was a conversation on my heart that needed to be had.”

“Mindset, self-mastery, and transformation don’t really mean anything if you can’t see them, if you are not self-aware of them.”

About Nick McGowan

I’m Nick McGowan, an entrepreneur, podcaster, and mental health advocate, and I’ve been on a 20+ year journey of personal development, learning to master my mindset, emotions, and the art of living with purpose.

As a Mindset and Self-Mastery Mentor, I work with ambitious men and women who want to live their most authentic and joyous lives by helping them master their mindset, emotional awareness, and authentic communication. My mission is to empower people to lead lives that feel aligned, grounded, and truly their own.

Throughout my career, I’ve built teams, streamlined systems, and improved client experiences across SaaS, media, marketing, and personal development spaces. Whether I’m leading cross-functional projects, optimizing SEO, Podcasting, designing strategies, or guiding clients through transformation, I bring a hands-on, solution-focused approach to everything I do.

I’m also the host of The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show, where my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, challenge us, and ultimately guide us back to who we are at our core. On this show, we uncover the secret gems others have discovered through trial and error and breakthroughs, so you can fast-track your growth and master your mindset in your pursuit of self-mastery. Check out the latest episode here.

With years of podcasting and two decades of marketing experience, I’ve mastered the storytelling, interview flow, strategy, and technical production that elevate a podcast from “just content” to something truly impactful. Whether you’re a leader looking to amplify your message, a seasoned speaker and podcast host looking to sharpen your edge, or even a beginner who is wondering how to share their message, I mentor thought leaders through every step of having the conversation they’re here to have on this planet.

So, what message are you here to share?!

Resources:

Check out some of the episodes from the past 100 episodes of the podcast.

And check out some of my favorite books for your journey toward self-mastery.

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have?
Learn how I can help!

Learn more about our host, Nick McGowan
https://nickmcgowan.com/

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe to the show on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:00)
I’ve learned that self-awareness is the most important part of this. People ask me at times, what does mindset mean? What does self-mastery mean? What does transformation mean? Like, what are all those things mean to you? They don’t really mean anything if you can’t see them, if you are not self-aware of them.

Nick McGowan (00:26)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show, I’m going to talk about this being my 200th episode of the podcast. When I first started, I had no idea I would get, I don’t know, 40 episodes in, let alone 200. It’s kind of nuts what has happened over the past few years. I’ve had the show now as I record in June. I’ve had the show for four and a half years and I started to plan it maybe

Nick McGowan (00:55)
a little over five years ago, because it took me about, I don’t know, maybe six, seven months to actually get into this and do it all. But when I really think about it, it actually took me six years, like six whole years to do the podcast. I’d thought about starting a podcast back in probably 2013, 14, something like that. I had a social media marketing company with my ex-in-laws at the time and thought maybe this would be a cool thing to talk about social media.

Nick McGowan (01:24)
or something, I don’t know. I looked at it as a way of hopefully trying to bring in leads for the business that I had. I’m glad I didn’t start the podcast at that point because getting the leads isn’t what a podcast is all about. Really the whole point to a podcast in my mind and in my opinion is to be able to share the message that’s on your heart with the ideal people who want to hear it and who can benefit from it. People you can impact with the words you say. I think it’s really cool to put it in a nice and

Nick McGowan (01:55)
kind of silly way that I have anybody that listens to this show, that there’s anybody like you specifically, that you listen to this and you come back for my wit or my sarcasm. I hope that you really keep coming back and tuning in to be able to hear how these conversations go. Not only with my solo episodes, which there’s going to be more of those coming up, but also with the guests. Because what I understand and what I’ve really learned over the past two and a half years is that

Nick McGowan (02:24)
The people who listen to the show are leaders in what they do. You either own a business or you’re a leader in whatever job you work in, or you’re a leader at home. And maybe it’s all the above. And you know that you’ve done a lot of work, but there’s still more work to do. It’s not about grinding or hustling, but it’s about actually being healthy and aligned with what you’re all about. Over the past two and a half years of doing these past hundred episodes.

Nick McGowan (02:54)
There’s been so much growth personally. And I like doing these milestone episodes. It’s a little bit of a recap. If you go back and you listen to episode 100, I literally had clips from different episodes that I pulled in. There were a lot of great episodes over the first 100 that I’d done. I gotta be honest, last 100 I’ve done have been so much better than I thought they were going to be. There were only a couple episodes that were recorded or partially recorded that I bailed on or…

Nick McGowan (03:22)
for stuff that happens. And if you really want to know those stories, shoot me a message. I can share some of that stuff. Some of those things should never have been aired and I’m glad that they weren’t. But I’ve really gotten specific in the people that I bring onto the show because I understand that the core of the show, are three core topics that I talk about. It’s mindset, self mastery and transformation. When I first started the show, I thought mindset, self mastery were the main topics because I was having mental health problems and struggling.

Nick McGowan (03:52)
because I’d gone through a divorce right before that, before I started the show and was just trying to have these conversations. I felt like there was a conversation on my heart that needed to be had. And I wasn’t sure exactly how it needed to go about it, but it felt right for me to start a podcast. If you have a podcast of your own, you probably get it. If you don’t have a podcast and you’ve been kicking around the idea of it, then explore that. In fact, if you need help or you want some help or want some guidance,

Nick McGowan (04:20)
Reach out to me. I’ve been doing this for almost five years and have learned an immense amount. And heck, over the past two and a half years with the amount that I’ve learned from the podcast itself, just doing the mechanical podcasting thing, not only just having the conversations with people, the stuff that I learned about the podcasting has been critical in where I’m at now. I have a business where I actually help people who are thought leaders, mission driven and purpose driven business owners who have a mission and purpose on their heart.

Nick McGowan (04:49)
They’re trying to figure out how to best go about these things. But the podcast itself, I’m going to give you a bit of a behind the scenes in a sense. When I first started the show, I tried to do everything I could. All the social media, the website, the newsletters, like every single thing. And if you’ve been around since then, you know, you saw a lot of that stuff. And if you’re on the show at that point, you probably saw I was making like 10, 15 clips per episode. Some of them are really in context and some of those weren’t because I thought I was playing the game right.

Nick McGowan (05:19)
by getting all this information out there. I’ve learned over the past two and a half years that that’s not really right. In fact, those of you who don’t know this are gonna know now. So after the first year, maybe a little after the first year, like a couple months or so, I actually had a bit of an existential crisis. I moved from where I was in Florida to New Mexico. I basically went from tropical island living on two golf courses.

Nick McGowan (05:47)
to the foothills of a mountain, living in a tiny home. And I needed to do that. I also apparently needed to break wide open. So when I went through my existential crisis, I literally folded inside out and back out again. And I basically took about a year, year and a half off from most of life. I kept going with the podcast because I felt it was important, not just for me, but for the…

Nick McGowan (06:14)
people like yourself who keep showing up and the other people that are out there that can be impacted by these conversations and the message. But I was struggling. I was going through a lot. I had a lot of childhood trauma, abuse, different things that shaped me. And I needed to break myself of those. Over the past two and a half years, I’ve done an immense amount of healing work, an immense amount, more so than I’d ever done in my entire life. And I thought of myself as somebody who was really into.

Nick McGowan (06:44)
personal development, personal growth, since I was probably 19, but a lot of it was intellectualized and not actually enveloped into my body and somatically tying it together. I didn’t understand what any of that stuff meant until literally two and a half, maybe three years ago. So as I went through the first, I’d say year, year and a half of breaking things down, understanding what I no longer wanted,

Nick McGowan (07:12)
understanding what I absolutely wanted and being a absolute mess as I went through it. uh You can ask my ex partner, she’ll testify to that. There was an immense amount of stuff that I needed to work through and I needed to get through. And that made every single one of these conversations better. That first hundred episodes and that hundredth episode that I did where I did the recap, I thought maybe I’ll do that again. Maybe that’s the thing I do every hundred episodes. I do a recap with some clips and all.

Nick McGowan (07:41)
As I look through my episode guide, this 200th episode would have been six hours long, because there were so many incredible conversations. And I’m not just saying that because I’m a bit biased, but I got really specific knowing that I need to be focused on what my core topics are. That also came from me breaking. And if you don’t know this, I took a hiatus off social media. I actually pulled the podcast website down.

Nick McGowan (08:09)
for a little over a year, maybe a little longer, which note to self, I should never do that again. I screwed up my search engine optimization. I did a lot that I couldn’t actually get back from. needed to start over again. So when I came back to everything and I thought I’m going to put the site back up, I’m going to get a brand new site, I’ll probably get back on social media, but I want to do this all differently. How do I do it? I don’t want to make TikTok videos. I don’t want to point the air things. I don’t want to dance.

Nick McGowan (08:37)
I don’t want to do any of that. None of that feels actually aligned with me. And if you’re a business owner or you work in any sort of business that’s pushing some of these things and they feel off to you, listen to that, dive into that. Because if it feels off, there’s a reason for that. Maybe you just absolutely don’t want to do it because you see everybody else doing it. Maybe you don’t want to do it because there’s something different. And when I sat there in the middle of the desert and the foothills of a mountain, I was like, well,

Nick McGowan (09:05)
What do I actually want to do? I want to have deep conversations that actually change lives and not from a cheesy buzzword perspective. You listen to these episodes. I try not to be cheesy or buzzwordy at all. mean, cheesy a little bit at times because of my humor, but in all reality, like I even say to the guests when they get on the whole point of the show is to talk about the tough situations and challenging chapters you’ve been through, focus on mindset, self-mastering, transformation. But I don’t want to hear about your success.

Nick McGowan (09:35)
In fact, I don’t give a shit about your success. I really don’t. I don’t care about your credentials, none of it. And I’ve had some big people on the show at this point. I tell them, I want to know, and the guests and the audience and you want to know, how did you handle the toughest points of your life? What did you do to get yourself out of it? What about when you had a gun in your hand or you were thinking tonight’s the night where I’m going to end it? How did you get past that and through that? What do you do differently now?

Nick McGowan (10:04)
Because again, I don’t give a fuck about your success. I want to know about the real things that have tied to that and correlated to now you being successful. And success means different things for different people. If you’re doing what you want to do and you feel aligned in what you’re doing, that’s success to the extreme amount. But other people say if you don’t have billions of dollars or you don’t run some corporation or whatever, then you’re not successful. That’s their worldview. What does your worldview look like? What do you want it to look like?

Nick McGowan (10:34)
Whatever you want it to be, shape it, shape it that way. So over these past two and a half years, doing these hundred episodes, getting back to what do I really want to do? I want to have these deep conversations. I was intentional about who I brought on to the show. Over the first hundred, it’s a little intentional, but it took probably till about 70, 80 episodes in. Cause I didn’t know, there were things to learn and I had people reaching out to me and people I would meet with and connect with and I’d have them on the show and we’d have

Nick McGowan (11:04)
great conversation at time, but not like I did over the past hundred episodes. And I suspect that over the next hundred episodes, I’m probably going to be in the same spot where it’s going to be like, man, all of these conversations have just been so incredible. How do I share that or encapsulate that one 20, 30 minute episode or something like that? So I, I ask you and I challenge you to go back through the catalog.

Nick McGowan (11:30)
past hundred episodes, even go back through the first hundred episodes if you want to. But these past hundred episodes, there were some incredible things that we talked about. One of the biggest things that I’ve learned throughout all of these episodes and the past almost five years doing this and having hundreds of conversations with people, not only on the podcast, but with the clients that I work with who are other podcasters and thought leaders and people that have conversations on their podcasts, as well as networking, different events I go to or classes, et cetera.

Nick McGowan (12:00)
Let’s learn that self-awareness is the most important part of this. People ask me at times, what does mindset mean? What does self-mastery mean? What does transformation mean? Like, what are all those things mean to you? They don’t really mean anything if you can’t see them, if you are not self-aware of them. Now, you’ve probably heard me joke at different times, and maybe some of you, some of the people who listen get a kick out of it, some maybe don’t. I don’t know, it’s up to you.

Nick McGowan (12:27)
joked about how self-awareness is like opening a door in a fun house and then there’s 40 other doors. Then you go through one of those and there’s like another 4,000 doors and you’re super aware of all the things that happen and the macro moments and all the things that could turn into something as well as the things that would have pushed you in a different direction in the past or maybe are shaping you these days. But being self-aware, the more self-aware you are, the more self-aware you are.

Nick McGowan (12:56)
self aware you are, the more fucking self aware you are. And sometimes it sucks because you see things and you’re like, I’m trying to work on these. I’m doing these things, but right now I just don’t want to. But that also brings in its own set of, I don’t want to say problems. I think they’re uh little activities that we kind of go through. And I find myself at times being self aware of a situation, something that I’m working on still. And I can see

Nick McGowan (13:25)
how I do a thing, why I do a thing. And then I’ll have a bit of a conversation with myself about it to understand what am I exactly trying to get out of it. And there are certain things that I do where I understand like maybe I’m overstimulated with a lot of meetings throughout the day. And I am self aware enough to know I could keep pushing, I could keep doing the thing. could maybe jump back into that project that I started before my couple of meetings or whatever. I could also just grab my guitar.

Nick McGowan (13:55)
and play for a few minutes. I can also just go walk outside. can go do anything else, but I’m aware in those moments at this point to go, I feel like I’m getting a capacity. What feels more aligned for me to do in the moment? What can I do to take a step out of this? And sometimes it’s happened where it’s like a two, three hour step away. There’ve been times where I’ve gotten in the car and just drove because I’m like, I’m just, I need to get out of my office.

Nick McGowan (14:21)
I need to get out of my house. I need to get out of the thing that I’m doing and just get out of here and go drive. And I’ll end up, I don’t know, maybe getting a coffee or something or a Yerba and I’ll just keep driving around, experiencing different things, listening to music or whatever. And then I’ll come back and I’ll get back into the projects that I was doia ng. Sometimes it’s five minutes. I’ll grab my guitar and I’ll play around on an idea or I’ll just play a song that I know or play one of my own songs or just riff or whatever.

Nick McGowan (14:51)
just step myself out of what I was doing to then be able to understand that I have that privilege, I have that space to be able to do that because of the work that I’ve done to be able to get to the point where I’m at. I’m not one of those people that makes billions of dollars, maybe at some point, but I also don’t know if anybody actually really needs that. I think what we really need is to be fulfilled and aligned and to be us at our core.

Nick McGowan (15:18)
So self-awareness is one of the biggest things that has really stood out to me, not only over the past hundred episodes, but the 200 episodes and all the other conversations that I’ve had. Trauma was another thing that we talked a lot about. I dabbled on that a little bit in the first hundred episodes, but I got really, really, really deep into it on my own and with my practitioners and my coaches that I was working with. That it was inevitable that it came into these conversations.

Nick McGowan (15:48)
You’ve probably heard me say on different episodes. think a lot of the stuff that we go through as adults really ties back to our childhood. And when people say trauma or childhood trauma, some people will use it as kind of a synonymous thing. Like whatever happened, they just tie it to a childhood trauma. We also as individuals can’t tell them that’s not right. And I say we can’t because it’s not on us to say that something that we experience.

Nick McGowan (16:18)
or hear about, we go, oh, maybe that’s a small T trauma. To them, that could have been Eiffel Tower sized trauma. You have no idea. You don’t have any idea. We don’t know until we start having conversations with people, which is one of the reasons why I love the podcast. You never know what’s behind somebody’s eyes until you ask and start to have conversation. You build rapport with them to help them feel comfortable to be able to have those conversations.

Nick McGowan (16:46)
And I think that’s an important thing for all of us to remember that there are times where we need to have those conversations, not only just with ourselves, but there are other people. If you’re going through things and you don’t have somebody to talk to, reach out to me, reach out to a friend, start looking for a therapist that you can reach out to. If finances are difficult, there are programs that can help. If you are unsure of what sort of therapies or modalities or

Nick McGowan (17:15)
any experiences you can have to be able to help you. I suggest that you just start with something, start moving, have a conversation, try a modality. Over the past two and a half years, I’ve tried a lot of the different stuff that I can. I haven’t licked the ass of a toad yet. I don’t know if I want to get to that point or even ayahuasca or anything like that. I really have been focused on how do I become more self-aware.

Nick McGowan (17:44)
How do I better manage my mindset and understand what my mindset is actually coming from? And how do I put the intention into the intentional mindset to be able to do things that are really aligned with me? That’s kind of easy to say in a sense. It’s really been difficult to work through and work on. So trauma and self-awareness were two major things that came up over the past, I’d say 200 episodes, but specifically the past 100. Alignment?

Nick McGowan (18:13)
purpose and expression are the other three that come up. And I clump them all together because when we’re aligned on our purpose, it expresses itself the way that it needs to in this day and age. Let’s think about this podcast and me as the host. If I didn’t have podcasting, I’d have done something different like this.

Nick McGowan (18:40)
Maybe a hundred or 200 years ago, I’d have been one of those dudes standing on a soapbox on the corner of a street. I don’t know. This is what this looks like right now. In 2026, we have the ability to be able to have our own, in essence, radio show, to be able to share what we want to share. And I think that’s critical for us to understand that this day and age, where the technology is and where things are, this is how

Nick McGowan (19:10)
It has shaped for me. If you have your own podcast, you get it. Again, if you’re thinking about your own podcast and you’re probably along those lines too of like, this feels right for me to do. I’m not sure what to do next or how to go about it. And again, I challenge you to just start taking steps or reaching out to people like myself or anybody else you know that has a podcast to ask, how do you get started? In fact, when I first got started, hired a consultant company and I asked them, how did you fuck up? What’d you do wrong? So I can do something different. And I still messed up.

Nick McGowan (19:39)
My first episode, my microphone wasn’t and I’m a musician and an audio file and my microphone wasn’t on. It sounded like I was six rooms away in like my neighbor’s bathroom, but you know, it happens. We got to get through it. So here, here we are 200 episodes later, trauma, expression, alignment, purpose, self-awareness, all of these things tie together.

Nick McGowan (20:09)
because it’s all about understanding who we are at our core, what is aligned for us and what’s helping us or holding us back from doing the things that we feel called to do. If you’re in a job right now, let’s not talk about a business. Let’s just say you’re in a job. If you’re in a job and you hate it,

Nick McGowan (20:32)
You’ve probably heard people tell you before, we’ll get a different job. And your first response, at least in your head is probably typically fuck off. I get that. And I’m not here to tell you, go get a different job. I’m here to tell you, look at what you’re doing, what you like of what you are doing, and then start to make at least incremental small steps toward what that could look like for you to do it differently. I don’t think everybody needs to be an entrepreneur. I don’t think everybody’s an entrepreneur at their, at their core.

Nick McGowan (21:01)
I just don’t, just like, don’t think everybody needs to have a podcast. And there are a lot of people that say everybody’s got a podcast. That’s actually incorrect. There are more podcast guests than there are active podcasts. Yes, there may be a lot of people have had podcasts, but most people don’t go past the 21st episode. In fact, if you have a podcast and you’ve gotten past the 21st episode, you are in the top 1 % of podcasters because most people don’t get past that. Let’s not even look at 2020.

Nick McGowan (21:31)
when everybody was pushed home because of COVID. And a lot of people were like, I don’t know what to do. So I guess I’ll become a coach and I don’t know who to talk to. So I guess I’ll have a podcast. A lot of those people ended up figuring out this is really hard. And if you don’t have the skills to be able to have the conversations, to put the podcast episodes together, to be able to produce and create everything and get it all out there, or the finances to have somebody help you. lot of those people ended up trailing off.

Nick McGowan (22:00)
Maybe they got a few episodes in. Maybe they got to 21 episodes, but then they still bailed. That happens. And again, I don’t think a podcast is for everybody. Just like I don’t think a business is for everybody. So if you have a job or if you have a business and you’re thinking, I have to make some changes, I challenge you that you make those changes to you first. And you might hear me say that and go, all right, Nick, I hear you. Don’t give me your leadership bullshit. I’m not trying to give you a leadership bullshit. What I’m trying to give you is

Nick McGowan (22:30)
accountability and something you can actually do on your own. Because if you’re in a spot right now where you’re like, I don’t like what I’m doing, you’ve probably been in that spot for a little bit. You might’ve even said last year or two years ago, I don’t like this job and here you are two years later. Over the past two and a half years, a lot of things that I didn’t like about myself that I needed to work through and needed to better understand, needed to reframe, needed to actually get the trauma.

Nick McGowan (22:59)
out of my cells and my being. And there were a lot of things that I didn’t understand that I did actually like, but I thought I shouldn’t do because I’m a 41 year old man, like playing music. Playing music as a hobby is one thing, playing music to write an album, to be able to actually get your music and your art out there is a different thing. It takes more intention. And that’s the thing that I’ve been kicking around for a long time. In fact, I’ve been working on an album for the past, I’d say five years or so.

Nick McGowan (23:29v
But last year, right around this time last year, I actually reformatted my music card drive and lost everything. So I had to start it all over again. Yeah, that sucks. And I cried a little bit, not gonna lie. As soon as I figured out, I reformatted everything. There’s no unburning the bridges or the ships. So I had to start all over again. And that, in that little moment,

Nick McGowan (23:55)
helped me understand all the work that I’d done before that to be able to be in this spot, to then say, right, well, what do I do differently going forward? That self-awareness that was there. So over these past hundred episodes, with all the conversations I’ve had, the biggest thing that I want you to be able to take from this is self-awareness, alignment, and your purpose expression. Be self-aware in everything you do. Don’t drive yourself crazy, but test it bit by bit by bit.

Nick McGowan (24:24)
what happens at work, what happens at home, what happens while you’re driving, but you start to get a little triggered or a little anxious and start to look at those things a little deeper. Now, if you have a therapist you work with or different modalities that you go through with different practitioners, wonderful. You probably do some of this work. My challenge is just to do more of that and keep at it. Not to say you’re not doing enough, but to be mindful. What?

Nick McGowan (24:54)
is it that’s deeper than the thing that you’ve been working on that could actually help you heal all the rest of it? And then when you look at your purpose and your purpose expression, understand where we’re at in this day and age and understand what you really love to do and what you feel called inside of you to do. I have to be honest, it’s probably not the most clear thing ever. In fact, most people I’ve talked to about purpose

Nick McGowan (25:23)
there was always some sort of like glint of what it was, but it wasn’t until I’d say much later in life or as I got deeper into the thing that they were doing, that they really understood why they love what they’re doing, how it makes them feel and what’s leading them to be able to do it. You typically don’t understand that upfront. In fact, the work that I do with my clients, when I work with them through

Nick McGowan (25:51)
a strategy for their podcast and all. We talk about being able to build out pillar episodes and core episodes that talk about their specific topics. And then a client asked me, well, why don’t I do that upfront? Why do you have me doing that 30, 40, 50 episodes later? Because the amount of work that you have to do to go through that, to then be able to have that conversation because of all the research, all the conversations, all the other things you’ve done along with that. So likewise with you, your business or

Nick McGowan (26:21v
your job or your family or wherever you’re at. If there are things that you feel are off or not aligned, then look at those and start to ask yourself, what is it about those things that really get me fired up? What are the things that I do now that can help me do that? As a personal example, over the course of my life, my career, let’s say, I’ve done a lot when it comes to uh sales and marketing and operations.

Nick McGowan (26:50)
And there’s a kind of Venn diagram of some of the software. Like if you’re in sales or if you’re in customer service, you’re probably familiar with the CRM. I think of it as a customer relationship management piece of software where you can hold accounts, have all the contact info and all that sort of stuff. I also know what it’s like to be able to run giant productions of things specifically from the sales end.

Nick McGowan (27:16)
and working with operations, marketing, development, all that sort of stuff through different uh situations that I’ve been in, jobs that I’ve had or different clients and projects I’ve worked on over the course of my life. And all of that has helped me with the people that I work with, my clients, my mindset and self-mastering mentees and the podcast mentees, because there’s a bit of a kind of a playground sort of way where we get to be able to play.

Nick McGowan (27:45)
but I also understand what those boundaries are and what systems have in place and all. And this is something I wouldn’t have been able to do three years ago, let alone five years ago, you know, when I was basically starting this off. So without making this episode much longer, I really appreciate you being here. I appreciate you listening. I appreciate you tuning in. I appreciate you sharing. I appreciate when you go, man, what the fuck you just said? I need to do something with that.

Nick McGowan (28:14)
And I hope you are. really hope you are. And if you’re not, I hope that you do. Even if that’s just talking with yourself a little bit and taking some incremental steps to be able to have conversations with other people. I really want you to be able to walk away from this episode, understanding that the next hundred episodes I’m going to do are going to be better than these past hundred. No shade to the guests or even to myself having these conversations. It’s just only going to get better from here. It’s just going to get more and more.

Nick McGowan (28:44)
in depth with everything that we get into. So again, thank you. Thank you for your support. Thank you for being with me on this journey. Thank you for being with you on your journey. And if there’s anything I can do to help, anything I can do to support, share resources, please feel free to reach out. If you’re somebody who’s trying to figure out how do you better manage your mindset and how do you seek self mastery in your own way, reach out to me.

Nick McGowan (29:13)
If you’re somebody who has a message on their heart, just like I do, and you feel there’s a deep purpose and calling to your life, and that podcasting could be a great way to be able to get that out to the world, reach out to me. This is what I do. And I love it because it’s part of my calling to be able to do this. So again, some of the main things that really stood out from the past hundred episodes was self-awareness, purpose, expression, alignment, trauma.

Nick McGowan (29:41)
all of these things tied together. So again, I appreciate you being with me on this journey. Thank you for listening to this. If there’s anything specific you’d want me to get into or more topics that you’d like me to dive deeper into over the next hundred episodes, I’d love to hear from you. You can reach me uh through the website. I check all those. It’s not like it goes to some random customer service person or an admin or anything. It goes directly to me. So I’ll look through all those.

Nick McGowan (30:11)
and would love to hear from you. So again, if there are things you would love for me to get deeper into or topics that are near and dear to your heart that you’d love me to get into, please send that stuff over. And again, thank you so much for listening and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day.

Nick McGowan (30:31)
Thanks for listening to today’s episode. What did you think? I’d love to hear your thoughts. If you enjoyed the episode, please jump over to Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you consume podcasts and subscribe, rate, and leave a five-star review. It’s very much appreciated and also helps other people find the show and experience healing just like us. Please also head over to our website, themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com.

Nick McGowan (30:58Nick McGowan)
where you can check out all of our episodes and find additional resources to help you manage your mindset as you seek self-mastery. So with that, thank you and remember, your mindset matters and so do you.

In this episode, Nick speaks with Von Decarlo about the importance of authenticity, resilience through grief, and embracing aging with confidence.

In this episode, Nick emphasizes the importance of mental health awareness, especially during Mental Health Awareness Month in May. Nick shares personal insights, practical strategies, and encourages ongoing mindfulness and self-care to improve mental well-being through practical tips.

What to listen for:

“We can be mentally disrupted, we can be hurt, we can be unsure of what’s going on, or really fighting with things that need to be fully processed.”

“Our mental health is critical to our overall well-being.”

About Nick McGowan

I’m Nick McGowan, an entrepreneur, podcaster, and mental health advocate, and I’ve been on a 20+ year journey of personal development, learning to master my mindset, emotions, and the art of living with purpose.

As a Mindset and Self-Mastery Mentor, I work with ambitious men and women who want to live their most authentic and joyous lives by helping them master their mindset, emotional awareness, and authentic communication. My mission is to empower people to lead lives that feel aligned, grounded, and truly their own.

Throughout my career, I’ve built teams, streamlined systems, and improved client experiences across SaaS, media, marketing, and personal development spaces. Whether I’m leading cross-functional projects, optimizing SEO, Podcasting, designing strategies, or guiding clients through transformation, I bring a hands-on, solution-focused approach to everything I do.

I’m also the host of The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show, where my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, challenge us, and ultimately guide us back to who we are at our core. On this show, we uncover the secret gems others have discovered through trial and error and breakthroughs, so you can fast-track your growth and master your mindset in your pursuit of self-mastery. Check out the latest episode here.

With years of podcasting and two decades of marketing experience, I’ve mastered the storytelling, interview flow, strategy, and technical production that elevate a podcast from “just content” to something truly impactful. Whether you’re a leader looking to amplify your message, a seasoned speaker and podcast host looking to sharpen your edge, or even a beginner who is wondering how to share their message, I mentor thought leaders through every step of having the conversation they’re here to have on this planet.

So, what message are you here to share?!

Resources:

Check out other episodes about self-awareness and following our hearts

If you or anyone you know is struggling with their mental health, resources are out there for you. Check out the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) for local resources.

Here’s the song Nick mentioned, “Weighless” by Marconi Union. This is the shortened version, but try it out the next time you feel overwhelmed a bit.

Are you looking for ways to better manage your daily mindset, live a happier, more fulfilled life, and pursue the depths of your soul on your path to self-mastery? Schedule a free clarity session with Nick to see if mentoring is a good fit for you.

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Check out Nick’s website for more information: https://nickmcgowan.com/

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Click Here To View The Episode Transcript

00:00
People will look on social media and see that you have your family and your friends and your hobbies and your life and your car and your this and that, blah, blah, blah. None of that matters though. None of it at all. It doesn’t change the fact that sometimes inside of our heads, we’re just not doing well. Our mental health is critical to not only our lives, the lives of the people we live with and work with and the lives that we touch.

00:32
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show, I wanna talk about mental health because May is Mental Health Awareness Month. Now I wish Mental Health Awareness Month was every single month, but in some ways it really is. Every single month, every single week, every single day, minute, an hour even, I think our mental health plays a major part and role of the work that we do in the world.

00:59
how we move throughout the world, the things that we do. And I want to touch on something that a lot of people will bring up at times, sometimes clients, sometimes even guests when we’re talking, be it on the show or after the fact, but people at times will think I’m broken. I’ve thought that before too. I felt that many, many times actually that I am just straight up broken. And what that really comes from is me just not knowing what is broken or off.

01:29
It’s not that I’m broken, it’s that there are things that just feel broken or don’t feel like they’re working really as well as I want them to. You may experience that and you may not. I assume most people that listen to this show probably experience a good chunk of the things that we talk about on the show, either just on the solo episodes or with guests. A lot of us go through the stuff where on the surface we look really great. It looks like we’re living life, we’re enjoying.

01:56
We’re successful in whatever we’re doing. We have our families, our friends, we have all the things that for the most part really go really well with social media. People will look on social media and see that you have your family and your friends and your hobbies and your life and your car and your this and that, blah, blah, blah. None of that matters though. Actually, none of it at all. mean, having some friends and some family and people that care about you, that absolutely matters.

02:26
having hobbies and things that are important to you, that absolutely matters. And what I mean by it doesn’t matter is that it doesn’t change the fact that sometimes inside of our heads, we’re just not doing well. And I’m really glad that May is the month for that. The reason why I say I’m glad for that is because May is sort of like the beginning of spring to me. Where I grew up in Pennsylvania, we saw all four seasons of the year.

02:55
And it was awesome. Literally three months for every single quarter was a new season. Obviously there were some overlap at times or whatever, but I pretty much always saw a season and could always expect that the new season was going to come. When I moved around the country, not as much in Oregon, but specifically in Florida and in New Mexico, don’t always see all of those seasons, especially in Florida. It’s basically like,

03:24
spring sometimes in the morning, sometimes it’s winter in the morning for an hour, and then it’s just summer pretty much the rest of the day, even when it’s a different season. But mentally, our season can last a lot longer. We can be mentally disrupted, we can be hurt, we can be unsure of what’s going on or really fighting with things that are still inside of us that are still processing.

03:52
or need to be fully processed from things that have happened from sometimes decades ago. So I bring up the fact that I have thought this and other people have, and you most likely have as well, that we are broken in some sort of way. I want to challenge that. What if you’re not broken? But what if you’re just patterned in such a way? Now our brains and specifically our subconscious is there to be able to protect us.

04:22
and to keep us safe and keep us moving and active. And for the most part, when we feel like we’re broken, that pattern that we’re looking for that will get us out of something is really hard when we’re stuck in a pattern. Just our overall way of thinking about things. You know, those people that are typically real, uh real shitty about something, or just seem to always be upset and pissed off.

04:51
I want to guarantee that that’s probably not their natural state. could give you an example with myself. There are times where you can absolutely tell if I’m irritated. And there are times where I don’t really understand that I’m irritated because there’s something that’s going on in the background. Now, I’ve done a lot of work with this. those triggers and things that come up, I’m more aware of that, but there are still things that just creep along and I’m unaware of just being irritated. Even at a slight level, I know that I am.

05:20
but I don’t know what the thing is yet. So I need to work on it, work through it, et cetera. When we’re stuck in our patterns and we can’t get out of those patterns because we can’t see that we’re stuck in them, then we’re just perpetually there. So that person who is constantly pissed off or shitty or annoying, again, that’s probably not their natural state. There’s something that’s holding them back. There’s something that’s keeping them that way. And I bring up that you probably know these people because just about every single one of us does.

05:49
that there’s somebody, maybe it’s a family member or a coworker or something, you’re like, ah, that’s just how they are. They’re just naturally irritated. No, that’s probably not the case. Like myself, I am naturally joyous and like a little kid, just excited about things. But when I’m irritated and I’m not feeling so well mentally specifically, then I’m not like that at all. I’m just really irritable and not very fun to be around.

06:18
And again, I’ve worked on that over the course of my life and specifically over these past few years, but still I can almost guarantee some family and friends and people that know me closely are like, yeah, there are certain times where just stay the fuck away from him. And that doesn’t sit well with me. I don’t like that people would feel that way. Or if somebody would say, well, I don’t want to go anywhere near him because he’s constantly angry or whatever else. have been different times where I’ve been really

06:47
upset about things that are going on in life. From a mental health perspective, just not doing well at all. Again, because of those patterns, the way that I’ve thought about things, the way that I’ve looked at things, and the way that I just get stuck in those patterns. Because our mental health really stems from those habitual thought patterns. Everything we do will come through that lens in a sense.

07:13
of what is it that we normally think about? How do we normally go about this? And what’s the best approach with what’s going on right now? And there are certain times it doesn’t logically make sense to us because we’re just basing things off of those patterns. This also ties into our cognitive processes and our overall behaviors. All of this ties together because when we think about things and we’re in a bad spot mentally, then the way that we react or respond to the world

07:42
physically or even emotionally or really any sort of way is all going to tie back to the overall mindset and the overall mental health that we’re currently working through. with May being mental health awareness month, I wanted to really shine light specifically on mental health. Now the awareness month has actually been an awareness month for mental health since 1949, which I got to be honest, when I first read that I was shocked.

08:10
Because this isn’t something that I thought about for May for most of my life. It seems like there’s a national day for just about everything. There’s a national month that coincides with other national months. Like I’m pretty sure May is also several other things for national months. And that’s totally fine because again, we only have 12 of those months and I get that. But this is a thing that I’d never really knew about growing up because most people didn’t really talk about it.

08:40
I was born in the early 80s. So by the early 90s and even early 2000s, people weren’t talking about these things as much. There was a little bit more in the early 2000s, especially in the middle 2000s, et cetera, where people really started to have more of these conversations. And I think mostly because of my generation, that we’re like, hold up, time help. What happened was not cool. We need to do something about this. And I’m really glad that we have this month to be able to talk about this because

09:08
as we go into the rest of spring, into the summer, fall, winter, et cetera, throughout the rest of the year, want you to be mindful of your overall mental health. And you might say, Nick, that’s a lot to just be mindful of because every single day there’s something going on. And I get that. That’s also why I bring it up, is to be mindful throughout each day of what’s happening. How are you feeling? What are you thinking? And not beating yourself up about the things that are going on.

09:38
just letting yourself flow through it. I’ll be real personal with you right now. I’m actively going through a pretty difficult and challenging chapter of my life. And over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been going through this with my own mental health to be mindful of what are you feeling right now? What are you thinking right now? Sometimes I need to take a 20 minute break and just play my acoustic guitar or go walk outside for a minute or talk to a family member.

10:08
because there’s just stuff that’s going on that I just need to talk with somebody about. Or also my mental health coach or my other practitioners that I work with. Now it’s not like I can just pick up the phone and call them instantly because they’re professionals and they have other clients and all that sort of stuff. But I’m going through this as well. And with May being Mental Health Awareness Month, think it’s important for us to just be aware of what is going on with our mental health. Now, the whole point to Mental Health Awareness Month in May,

10:37
is to be able to bring awareness to not only our mental health, but the different resources and stigmas and just all the things that are out there about that and just keep the conversation going. But from this perspective for you, I want you to just be mindful of your mental health. That’s it. It’s really easy. Think about just how you’re feeling mentally and what’s going on in your head. A good thing that I’ve started to do, I’d say over the past year or so.

11:06
is once I wake up, I ask myself, how are you doing? How are you feeling? Are you good or are you shitty? Because I’ve realized that part of my being is I can be in a really good spot as soon as I wake up, of like jump out of bed and be ready to go, or I cannot be in such a great spot. And typically it’s because of the things that happened or didn’t happen the day before. Did I get enough time to spend me time? Did I spend enough time on the things I wanted to? Did I feel fulfilled in the stuff that I did?

11:35
And sometimes that just doesn’t line up. So it lingers and just drags over. So by the time I get into the next day, it’s still there. It’s kind of nagging at me in a sense. So for mental health awareness month, let’s just be aware of our mental health. Let’s figure out what’s going on and then work through it step by step by step. It doesn’t have to be a big thing where you say, oh, I’m in such a terrible spot. I need to talk to 40,000 people and I need to.

12:05
process all these things for like nine hours a day. You absolutely can, but you may not need to. Just being aware of what’s going on can sometimes be good enough to get you to the spot where you say, I need a little more help in this area. I found that with myself and I’ve even found that with clients. They’ll get to a point where they go, you know what? This keeps coming back. This is a pattern. This is the thing that I no longer want to be a part of my life. Okay. So what do I do?

12:34
Who do I talk to? How do I go about this? What has to happen next? And letting yourself be in the flow of that and just taking each day step by step. Instead of saying I need to be fixed and everything needs to be done right now. Sure, you can feel that way. It’s really not gonna do anything for you. So if you just take today and say, how am I feeling mentally? How am I doing right now? What’s going on? What do I feel is still back there that

13:03
is just not letting me be happy right now and being able to take a small step today. So our mental health is critical to our overall wellbeing. Sometimes we can think past that. Sometimes we can just put dirt on it, keep going. We don’t want to bypass things, but I do understand that there are certain times where we just can’t dig into everything right now. Maybe you don’t have 20 minutes in a day where you can just sit down and play guitar or work on a hobby or go walk outside for a minute or so.

13:32
Maybe you do, maybe a lot of time. And maybe that’s what sort of the problem is that there’s a lot of time and you’re unsure of what to do next. And you’re just kind of stuck with yourself as we are mentally aware of our mental health. We also need to be aware of what’s going on throughout the rest of our lives and start to take inventory of does that align with us? Again, you may not have 20 minutes a day to be able to just work on some hobby or something that’s important to you. So I ask.

14:02
How do you then find that 20 minutes a day? Because that is really critically important. The better we are mentally, the better we are just in every other way. Now, obviously our physical body is not always tied to our mental body. You you get what I mean. But in all reality, what we do in our head ties into how our physical body moves or doesn’t move. There have been times where I’ve been depressed and I’ve gone through some

14:31
really dark moments. There are times that I’ve had those dark moments throughout the course of the podcast. You can actually see some of that and how I’ve looked at different times and just haven’t felt good. And I’ll use that as a good example. There have been times where I’ve realized that I’m not feeling good mentally and gaining more weight and therefore I really don’t want to just go work out. And it’s like this vicious cycle. I’ve also learned that there are at times some chemical deficiencies.

15:01
vitamin deficiencies, some different things that are happening and I’ve Seeked medical help and at times it’s helped at times It’s also just been like no everything’s good on this end So there’s something else to go through and work through and for us to actually spend that time with ourselves as Uncomfortable as it can be to say, okay This is what I’m feeling right now. Let me just be straight and honest with myself and then from there start to figure out

15:30
What do need to do with it? My goal with this show just overall, and I say this to my guests when they come on, is that for you to get anything out of this, I want you to be able to hear from the authentic side of what we talk about, be it myself or with the guests. Like we need to get real to the fucking things that have happened and the situations and how we actually handle that. I bring that up because I at times have literally pushed things off to let future Nick deal with it.

15:59
And then future Nick most often gets pissed off at past Nick because if past Nick just did something about it, future Nick would not have to be dealing with it. Same goes for you. So if you just push things off and just bypass them, they will end up coming back and then you’ll have to work on them at another point. But if you’re having a hard time right now working on the things, then I want you to be able to take from this that you’re not alone and to just continue to do the work day in and day out and things will pop up for you.

16:29
resources. Maybe this is a great show for resources for you. People that you can connect with, practitioners, friends that are going through similar things. Sometimes we don’t know that until we actually have those conversations. So that’s what I to bring up next. I want you to be able to talk to people, people that you feel safe to talk to, and also allow yourself to step outside of your comfort zone because you never know who you can really be safe with in your circles.

16:59
I do want you to be able to tie into your intuition and understand, this person is definitely not safe to talk to about just about anything. And if there are things that you need to do to process being able to have a conversation with that person or some things that they’ve done to you in the past or what have you, then do that work. There are also other people out there that are just waiting for permission for themselves to share as well. And by you opening up how you’re doing,

17:27
without dumping onto people, but sharing this is where I’m at right now. That’ll allow them to then say, you know, I’ve gone through something similar or I’ve been real hesitant to say this to anybody else, but I’ve been going through this for the past month or two months or what have you. And being able to start conversation and that starts to heal ourselves and those other people. I’ll give you an example. A few weeks ago, when uh this difficult chapter of mine was starting, I was in a

17:56
tough spot to figure out what are next moves. And next moves may have literally looked like a 1500, 2000 mile physical move. And at one point I was hanging out with a couple of friends. We were talking about some things and just having a really great conversation, great time. And I felt totally overwhelmed. Stole off to my office and had a panic attack. I don’t have them very often.

18:26
But when I do, I’ve not handled them the best in the past because I didn’t exactly know what was going on. I just thought I was shutting down and dying. if you’ve had them, you can understand. But this time I knew what was going on. I knew to step away. I knew to do my breathing. I have a song that I listened to. It’s by Marconi Union called Waitless. It’s like a 10 hour long song.

18:53
but it’s actually been documented to help relieve anxiety. So I took some time to myself, breathe, let myself calm down, let it work through me, saw eye eye with it with what was actually going on. And I was gone for maybe 20 minutes, a half hour. I went back into the spot with my friends and both of them asked me like, hey man, you all right? Like you just kind of disappeared. I was like, yeah, I just need to go have a panic attack, but I’m all right now. And I knew that

19:21
saying this to my friends, they are my friends, but they are relatively newer friends, that there’s a chance for them to go, oh, what a little bitch or whatever. They could have said fucking anything at all about me stealing off to have a panic attack. I’m sure it would have been a little bit of a different thing if I did it right there, but they didn’t. They actually opened up a bit about themselves, that they had been going through some things. The one guy went through something about a month and a half, two months ago.

19:50
Another one was working on trying to get their anxiety medication that had problems being shipped to them. And that just opened up the conversation. That conversation didn’t turn into a six hour long kumbaya session. It was maybe another five, 10 minutes before we all got back into the stuff that we were doing and talking about other things and what was going on. But in all reality, the idea that I was able to open the door to that conversation gave permission.

20:18
not only to myself to do it more often, but to those people to be able to do it back and also to be able to pass that along. So in May and the coming months, the more that we are aware of what is going on with our mental health and the more that we understand what we are at our core, just like I understand at my core, I’m joyous and just naturally curious, then we can start to see how we’re off in certain ways. And again, you’re not broken.

20:48
You’re just patterned and we need to be able to break out of those patterns and change those patterns, but also be able to look at what’s going on and be aware of those things to then say, all right, well, how do I want to control this? There are times where people have told me can’t really control your mental health, just like there are times where people have said you can’t mindset your way through everything. And I agree with both. I also think that both are critically important with how we maneuver ourselves throughout all of life. And I think if we can be understanding of ourselves,

21:18
We can have an understanding of what’s going on and where things come from. We can be aware of those things. We can then start to take actions, whatever that action needs to look like. Sometimes it’s a really small action. Sometimes it’s a multi-hour deep subconscious processing session. Sometimes it’s a mixture, but whatever that looks like, needs to just look like that for you. So just being aware of your mental health and being aware of the things that are feeling off will then help you then be aware of

21:48
What are the culprits here? And what’s the catalyst of that? And what do I do from this point? So I want to leave you with a few tactics in a sense that have helped me over the course of, I’d say the past five, 10 years, really managing my mental health and being able to understand how to manage my day to day while managing my mental health. First is awareness. If you’re not aware of something, you cannot understand

22:16
what’s going on with the thing because you are not aware that it’s even there. awareness is something we can work on. We can be really aware of how we’re feeling and what’s going on. And I think the easiest way to be able to do that is once we sense something, instead of just pushing past it or bypassing, we can get really, really close to it by going, all right, what’s happening right now? What am I feeling right this second? Like literally take

22:46
the five, 10, 15 seconds, whatever it is. And if you can’t, because you’re in the middle of a meeting or you’re working with your kids or whatever’s going on, you can take a mental note of that. Maybe even just jot that down in your phone or something and go back to it. Go, all right, well, this happened. What was I feeling? I was feeling this. Why would I feel that? And start to work through it like you would if you were talking to a friend. If you called one of your good friends and said, hey, this situation happened. Can I process this with you? Can you work with me on it?

23:16
It would go short. What happened? Who was there? What was the thing? What did this look like? How did you feel with that? What did you want to do next? Like all of those questions. And this is a rule book sort of thing where you have to follow these five or 10 questions. Just start to ask yourself the questions because the more aware that you become, the more aware you can see the different situations and things that need to happen. And you go, okay, well, I’ve seen this over and over.

23:44
I don’t like how I feel with it. So what do I do from here? And there are certain things you can do on your own. I have a ton of resources, obviously within the podcast. There’s a ton of stuff on YouTube. There’s a ton of stuff everywhere. And then there are practitioners and people that can physically and emotionally, mentally help you with all of this. So awareness is absolutely critical. Another thing that has really helped me is breathing. That might sound really simple because we all do it every single day, but concentrated breathing.

24:14
Again, when I had my panic attack recently, that was one of the main things that I felt inside of me, is you need to concentrate on your breathing. And I’ve felt that before, and I’ve even told myself that before. Times where I’ll breathe for a few in, a few out or whatever, and just get irritated by it because I’ve had a hard time just sitting in the spot that I’m in. One of the things that really helps me is simple breathing. Five, four, three, two, one.

24:43
The way that I do it is I do five in, five out, four in, four out, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And by the time I get to the two and the one, it’s kind of just in and out, in and out. And then I’ll start over again and I’ll go a little slower and I’ll do that maybe two or three times. Literally one, maybe two of those cycles is enough to be able to reset us, at least for me. So I’d like you to try that. Get to a point where you’re like, I am really at my wit’s end.

25:11
Five, four, three, two, one. Five in, five out, four in, four out, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. By time you get through one or two of those cycles, you’ve regulated yourself a bit. You’ve at least curbed it a little bit and you get to then be able to move from there. And the last two could almost be one, changing your state and moving your body. Changing your state can look like if you’re sitting here having a conversation and something’s really

25:41
upsetting you or you’re having a conversation with yourself or you’re trying to figure out what’s going on, don’t just stay stuck in that same spot. Literally get up. If you need to go do jumping jacks or run around the building or just simply walk out of the space and walk back, you start to move your body and you get out of that actual space that you’re in. Sometimes it also really helps to literally go move your body.

26:10
Go work out, go to the gym, go for a bike ride, go do something that’s physically exerting to be able to get that energy to move through you a bit, but you don’t wanna bypass it. So I look at it like this. Now it may not be super easy for you to do this depending on your schedule, but there are times where I will feel I just need to go move. And I’ll go to the gym and I will either do the elliptical because I just need to move and really

26:41
just get into a rhythm of moving, but still want to spend the time thinking or processing through things. There are other times where I’ll do more weights and then, know, cardio and stuff. But throughout that whole period, I will allow myself to feel where I’m at and also allow the things to come up that I can then process through them. Or I can say, ah, this is the thing I really need some help with. I need to talk to my mental health practitioner, or I need to talk to my subconscious processing person, or I need to…

27:11
do some EMDR to be able to work through some of these past situations that are then coming up. But by moving our bodies, there are things that are going on. It’s also moving blood and oxygen and all of that, which again goes back to what I said earlier. There’ve been times where I felt depressed, I got heavier, didn’t want to work out, and it was just this big cycle. And there are certain things that can be outside of just your mental health. There can be actual physical things that are happening, especially as you get older.

27:41
And some of those things are newer because you’ve never been that age. So you don’t know. And then you start to kind of learn from there. So moving our bodies and also changing our state and sometimes simultaneously can really help us be able to start to work that stuff out of our system. And I found that it also helps us understand if we can process that stuff on our own or do we need somebody else to be able to help us with this? appreciate you spending the time.

28:10
watch or listen to this. And I hope that this has been helpful for you. It is May and this is when we are to be aware of our mental health. However, my challenge to you is to not just let it be May, let it be the rest of your life. Take the next month, two months, six months, et cetera, to be able to really be honest with yourself and your mental health and to be aware of what’s going on. And if you need to take some steps to speak with somebody,

28:40
If it’s mentoring, I can certainly help. Please feel free to reach out. If you need some practitioner help and want some resources, I’d love to be able to share what I know and be able to point you in the direction. There’s also a lot of people I’m sure that you know that can potentially point you in directions that they’ve used. But for you to be able to figure out what feels right for you and what you want to be able to do takes us to be aware of what’s going on. And our mental health is critical to not only our lives,

29:10
the lives of the people we live with and work with, and the lives that we touch. So again, thank you for spending your time with me today. I hope this helps. And if you have any questions or you’d want me to dig deeper in any of this, please let me know.

29:29
Thanks for listening to today’s episode. What did you think? I’d love to hear your thoughts. If you enjoyed the episode, please jump over to Apple podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you consume podcasts and subscribe, rate, and leave a five-star review. It’s very much appreciated and also helps other people find the show and experience healing just like us. Please also head over to our website, themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com.

29:55
where you can check out all of our episodes and find additional resources to help you manage your mindset as you seek self-mastery. So with that, thank you and remember, your mindset matters and so do you.

https://youtu.be/AE_7YIKqNZs

In this episode, Nick speaks with Cleous Young about his journey of self-discovery, the importance of interests in life, and how giving up redundant pursuits can lead to greater fulfillment. They explore mindset shifts, the power of curiosity, and the role of legacy in personal growth.

What to listen for:

“Your life can be a legacy that inspires others.”

“I’ve been giving up things because in the back of my mind it’s like, hey, if you let it go, if it comes back, then it’s meant for you.”

About Cleous “GloWry” Young

CleousYoung is an author, speaker, and advocate for personal growth, resilience, and ethical living. Through his unique philosophy and storytelling, he helps both adults and children navigate adversity, discover purpose, and cultivate values such as kindness, integrity, and nobility. Cleous shares practical life lessons and inspiring perspectives to empower people to live intentionally and make a positive impact in their communities.

Resources:

Are you looking for ways to better manage your daily mindset, live a happier, more fulfilled life, and pursue the depths of your soul on your path to self-mastery? Schedule a free clarity session with Nick to see if mentoring is a good fit for you.

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Check out Nick’s website for more information: https://nickmcgowan.com/

Learn more about our host, Nick McGowan.

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: Click Here To View The Episode Transcript

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:02.126)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset Self Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show we have Cleous Young. Cleous, how are you doing today?

Cleous GloWry Young (00:12.487)
Hey, I’m doing good, good, good. Very good today. Yeah. And you?

Nick McGowan (00:17.198)
Awesome. My man, I’m excited that you’re here. I’m good. I’m really good. You know, I maybe I can add a few more goods like you did. I appreciate when somebody gives a real answer or when they like, actually when they’re like, I’m good. I’m good. Yeah, I’m good. I’m good. Instead of somebody be like, how are you? I’m shit. This is awful. Fuck. Why did I wake up this morning? That’s a totally different feeling. So

Cleous GloWry Young (00:21.957)
Okay.

Cleous GloWry Young (00:38.447)
Yeah. No, I had an event yesterday and it’s a little unique event and it went tremendously well. So it’s like the residual from yesterday is still hanging on today. So it’s like, yeah, woke up feeling good. But then I thought about the event and the outcome and it was like, hey, add some more goods to that. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (00:52.632)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (01:02.924)
Yeah, cool. I love that riding on a high in a sense. That’s also part of what this show is about. We talk about mindset, self mastery and transformation and being able to understand that some days are gonna be great because you’re riding a high. Some days you might be grieving because of the thing that happened the day before. And there’s stuff to get into all of that. So why don’t you kick us off? Why don’t you tell us what you do for a living and what’s one thing most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre.

Cleous GloWry Young (01:06.194)
Yeah.

Cleous GloWry Young (01:19.379)
yeah.

Cleous GloWry Young (01:29.371)
So I work in the community. I have a nonprofit and one of the things that we actually particularly specialize in is helping people figuring out things. For me, that’s what I had to do for my own life. So even now I have this context, it’s called transfiguration, where it’s like saying trans, right? Moving from one place to another. And then figuration is that comp.

concept of what you would say figure things out, right? So for me for the last say past eight years, I’ve been figuring out things for my own self, not what I’ve been taught, what I’ve been given. And for me, it’s like, hey, this is what I now find applicable that whatever I did for myself, I can also do for somebody else. Perfect example, I hosted an event around trauma and this

Three generations of women came to that event, grandma, mom, and daughter, and it’s like they were treating themselves a certain way growing up, right? And it was until they came to the event and they started to figure out that, you know what? This has been a trauma pattern in our life, generation after generation. And it just allowed them to now systematically put different things in place and started to actually move forward.

So for me, this is what I do on a day-to-day basis. The one weird thing about me that most people would never understand, like yesterday at the event, people will see me out here doing all these things, but they would never understand that there’s a saying that says never give up, right? I’m somebody who have given up so many times. And it’s interesting, and I didn’t give up because it’s hard.

I gave up because it’s redundant. Like I get up every day, I’m seeing the same old thing over and over again. And it’s like, even when you look at self-master, right? So I used to teach. And when I was teaching, it’s like, hey, the students are doing well. And it’s like, when I look at my life, I’m like, whoa, I’m not doing well. They’re doing well. And what I end up doing, I just give up teaching. Like.

Cleous GloWry Young (03:52.923)
It wasn’t hard. The students are doing well. Like even one of those set of students that I taught, they got the highest score in the entire school in the math. The entire score on what is called the PSSA. Right? That means they’re doing well. Was teaching hard? No. But it just became redundant that I went to school every day doing the same thing over and over again. And I just got up and I just gave up. So continually, I keep giving up.

Nick McGowan (04:18.99)
Hmph.

Cleous GloWry Young (04:23.141)
I know the saying that says, don’t give up on your dreams. But for me, I just give things up. And know, you know what’s so funny? I’ve given up so many times and then something else just comes in my way to start a whole new journey. And it’s like, I guess you’re not supposed to finish right here because I’m thinking that, hey, I’m done.

Nick McGowan (04:41.44)
Yeah.

Cleous GloWry Young (04:44.123)
And I’m telling you, it’s not because it’s hard. None of the things that I’ve ever done has been hard. It’s just becomes redundant. It’s like you get up every day, you’re doing the same thing. And it’s like you’re looking at the results of the community and it’s like it’s not getting better. And people are putting on this facade that, things are better. No, look at the numbers, look at the killing, look at the violence. It’s like, so at one point I just gave up. And I remember the last time I gave up.

Nick McGowan (04:58.318)
Mm.

Cleous GloWry Young (05:13.105)
July 28, 2016. Like this time I just called my mom, Like I just finished school. Two months ago I graduated. Magna cum laude, right? And then two months after I was like, I called my mom and said to my mom, mom, I can’t do this anymore, man. And it was because of the stuff that I learned in school. Like when I tell you it was so redundant, we’re sitting out here trying to do these things, right?

Nick McGowan (05:30.894)
you

Cleous GloWry Young (05:39.092)
And it’s like somebody sitting in the background making it hard for us. So when I started to learn certain things about psychology, I was like, wow, I’m just out here wasting my time. So July 28, 2016, I called my mom and I said to my mom, hey, I’m done with this community work. And then I went into behavioral therapist. Funny enough, right?

Nick McGowan (05:49.262)
You

Cleous GloWry Young (06:03.431)
So I’m working with students now in the classroom, right? Helping them with their behavior problem. I’m like, hey, I’m done with the community. Let me just find a population that I know that I’m gonna work with on a day-to-day basis. So I’m in the school now and day by day I’m working with the students, right? And then I look around, I’m like, why is everything academic here? Like, don’t they have anything social context around here? And I kid you not, I sat down and I designed this. Look how funny it is.

This is what I actually designed. You see that? It says, be the ant. And I was like, something like this need to be in a classroom where they come and they can see that life is more than just academic. Again, I was coming from a teacher, right? And when you told me as a student, you got an A, I’m not impressed. Because I know the ins and outs of getting an A. It’s nothing difficult. You come to school, pay attention, do your work, participate, you get the A.

Nick McGowan (06:35.192)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (06:46.669)
Yeah.

Cleous GloWry Young (07:02.129)
So when I looked at it, I was like, wow, I’m in here as behavioral therapist helping someone with their behavior. I’m now looking at it from an academic standpoint. Now, like not from teaching, but from a behavior standpoint. And I’m like, why everything in the classroom is so academic? And I sat down and this was the poster that I actually designed. And that literally led me to start looking to go back into community where I just gave up.

Nick McGowan (07:24.558)
Thanks.

Cleous GloWry Young (07:30.011)
So that is something that most people don’t know about me. It’s like, Clay C Oatley, you’re doing all these great things. But they would never realize that I’ve given up so many times, not because it’s actually saying hard, because of the redundancy that I keep seeing in the…

Nick McGowan (07:46.99)
Even just the fact that you consider it giving up and the things are redundant and really the story that you’re telling and how that all worked. You’re making these little shifts and pivots, et cetera. One of the things that I love to nerd out about in my life and obviously here on the show is to take those moments. Like this is sort of a safe space in a sense. We can talk about the craziness and the stuff that’s happened, but this is like a lab where we get to go, well, what actually happened there? Like, what did you do? How does that work? How do we implement it?

What changes did we make? Or just watch the damn movie in a sense and go, wow, that was really cool. So I think that’s some of the fun part of living because that’s where we actually get to do the work. Like when you’re in those moments, when that thing comes up and you go, wait a minute, everything’s redundant. This is not what I want to do anymore. You’re kind of still reacting or responding to the situation. And then from there, you really have to rely on the fucking work you’ve done in the past.

Cleous GloWry Young (08:20.435)
Mmm.

Nick McGowan (08:44.846)
like these little moments to go, all right, what do we do now? I think of it almost like you’ll have an issue or something that happens and you go, all right, well, that didn’t work out the way I wanted it to. What do I do? Some people will kind of watch their game tape in a sense. Other people will go, I don’t want to go anywhere near it. Like that wasn’t a thing I wanted to do or whatever. And then they run past. So when you talk about giving up, I want us to dive into that a bit because really there are people that have their own businesses.

Cleous GloWry Young (09:08.605)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (09:14.646)
or there are people that are working for a company or they’ve been in a marriage or a relationship or a system for so long, be it a family system, the whole fucking systems that we’re part of, capitalism and everything else. And they’re starting to look at that and go, and well, shit, I wanna give up, but it’s not really giving up like from the interpretation that you could have right off the bat. I can almost guarantee somebody listened to you say, I give up a bunch.

Cleous GloWry Young (09:20.211)
don’t wanna.

Cleous GloWry Young (09:33.139)
I need to give up.

Nick McGowan (09:43.266)
And then what you say where they’re like, well, that’s not really giving up. That’s like giving into where you should be going. And when I think of giving up, could mean this or that or whatever. When people give things up from a negative perspective, because it was like, it was a hard thing to do or didn’t work for them. I think there are some times where we can look at that and go, fuck man, I gave up. Or yeah, you’re damn right. I gave up on this thing. Instead of saying,

I moved that out of the way so I can go do these other things. So breaking down that moment, even 2016 or something that happened as of late of like, all right, well, if you give something up, that’s a big choice that you’re making to say, I’m actually removing this because of all the work that happened underneath. So let’s break that apart a little bit. When you give something up, what’s sort of the, I don’t know.

Cleous GloWry Young (10:31.61)
much.

Nick McGowan (10:40.502)
not like the framework or like what the fuck process do you do? But if you really think about it, what are you doing in those moments? Because you feel something, you see something, and then you’re making an actual decision to go, moving you because I’m expecting something else to come along. Or am I off from that?

Cleous GloWry Young (10:58.895)
So a part of it is going to my interest, which is something that I started to pay attention to. Like, what is it that I’m really interested in? And I think you also hit a nail on the head. It’s like, hey, it has come to a point where it’s it stopped. So I remember going into teaching, it’s like, hey, I was promised all these things. And when I looked at it, it was like, hey, these things are not being fulfilled of what I was promised. So it’s like, hey, you know what?

I’m going away. So a part of it was looking at it and saying, hey, these are the things that I’m interested in, but those interests are not being met. So it’s like, hey, I’m going to give this up. Why? Because it’s like, I don’t know, for me, my mindset is set on this. So I grew up in a culture where they say if you love somebody, right, let them go. If they come back, then they were meant for you.

So that’s my mindset that, when I give up things, it’s like I have this program in me that says, hey, if it comes back, then it was meant for me. If it doesn’t, then let me look for the next thing. Funny enough, even with my, I’m an author. The first book that I wrote, this was 26 years ago. Even that, I let that go and moved on and actually wrote on different books. I’m up to my 10th book now, right?

But what came back actually now was my first book, which I just republished and launched last week. So 26 years later, it came back to me and it’s like, lately I’ve been sitting down and I’ve been paying attention and it’s like, okay, this must have been meant for me because it’s no way that I let it go 26 years ago. And then now it’s now back in my life, like showing me the reality of what I needed to do.

to the point now I started to concentrate just on this concept for the last couple of months where I’m like, hey, I got this published now, right? So a part of me is like having your mindset where it’s like, hey, yeah, I’m giving this up, but it’s not giving it up because it’s hard. It’s like, where’s the interest in it for me? Yes, I’m doing these things. I’m doing a great job as a teacher. But again, even when you look at the poster that I created, right? I was in the classroom.

Nick McGowan (12:54.062)
Hmm.

Nick McGowan (13:03.246)
Yeah.

Cleous GloWry Young (13:23.183)
I’m doing a behavioral therapist work, but then I looked at it as like, where’s my interest? So my interest is not being fulfilled here. And it’s almost like when I started to understand these things now, it’s like, hey, you got a bigger calling on your life. And it’s based on the things that you’re interested in. And then here’s a key component that I never understood until now, right? The reason, so I’m Jamaican.

Nick McGowan (13:29.016)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (13:40.896)
Yeah.

Cleous GloWry Young (13:52.678)
I came here to live in America, say 31 years ago, right? When I came here, my interest was playing soccer, which is called football. Very, very good at playing soccer, right? In high school, very, very good. I wanted to be the next Pelley. At one point, I sat down and I looked at it and I said to myself, what would life be like?

to become the next Pele. And when I looked at that, I was like, wow, that’s not something that I’m interested in. And what I did that moment, I gave it up. So when you ask that question, now what I’ve been doing over the years is paying attention to the things that I’m giving up and realizing that it’s not that, it’s not hard. It’s just that my interest is no longer in these things. And it’s like I’m searching for something greater

Nick McGowan (14:32.878)
Yeah.

Cleous GloWry Young (14:50.683)
And the greater can’t come until I give those little things up. And as a soccer player in high school, where it’s like, I even started to sign autograph because people thought that I was going to be this big time player. So there’s this big future waiting for me. And I looked at it and I’m like, hey, I’m not interested in that. Like the lifestyle of being a celebrity, kicking a ball in a goal. And it’s like, at that moment, I was like, no, I don’t want that. I want something more meaningful.

I never knew what meaningful meant to me at that particular moment, but I know that being a soccer player, a celebrity, that wasn’t meaningful for me. So I gave it up and I started to look for something more meaningful that has interest in it for me. And the more I kept on going. when I look at my path, I became a teacher, was very good. But it’s like, hey, this is not meaningful. This is not interesting to me. I gave it up. I became a behavioral therapist. Same thing.

Nick McGowan (15:31.822)
you

Nick McGowan (15:50.104)
Thank

Cleous GloWry Young (15:51.676)
So all these years what I’ve been doing, I’ve been giving up things because in the back of my mind it’s like, hey, if you let it go, if it comes back, then it’s meant for you. If it’s not coming back, then the next step now is to search for something greater. And that’s what I’ve been doing, just searching, searching for something greater, right? And it was eight years ago.

that I found what I’ve been looking for for the last 26 years. And it has piqued my interest in such a way that it it drives me on a day-to-day basis to say that, hey, this is what I was looking for. I never knew it 26 years ago when I said, hey, I don’t want soccer, right? But I knew that I was looking for something that was meaningful, that intrigues my interest. And it’s like, hey, this is what actually led to now.

Nick McGowan (16:23.053)
Hmm.

Nick McGowan (16:37.934)
Sure.

Cleous GloWry Young (16:49.267)
Eight years ago, I had this breakdown, which they would call depression. And something just came in my spirit and said, hey, look at what is called the black box of an airplane. And while it came in my spirit to look at that, it gave me the instructions of what to do. When I did that, I moved from what is called mental depression to mental aviation.

And that alone piqued my interest to say that, wow, I was depressed a few weeks ago, right? And then now I followed this methodology around this blockbusters thing that just virtually came to me, right? As a revelation. And then here’s it that I’m on a whole nother level of thinking now. And that piqued my interest. from eight years ago, I’ve been into this concept of understanding what is called the aviation industry. And I’ve never.

Nick McGowan (17:22.509)
Mm-hmm.

Cleous GloWry Young (17:45.936)
never had an interest in saying, hey, let me give up. Because there’s always something that’s making me look at it and say, wow, I need to learn this. This is gonna make me greater. And the more I learned it now, now, going back to the first question that you asked, it’s like looking at it and saying that, hey, this is how I now make a difference in someone else’s life. I use the aviation platform to help them to understand and figure things out now.

Nick McGowan (17:56.536)
Yeah.

Cleous GloWry Young (18:14.491)
so they can get to their destination.

Nick McGowan (18:17.998)
I think the fact that you talk about interests and asking yourself the like, what’s actually interesting to me and being able to see the self awareness of, well, this is redundant or I don’t want to do these things anymore. The thing that I like to be able to take from whatever we talk about on the show myself or with other people is for somebody to be able to go, right, well, what’s actually going on in my life? What do I get from this? Like, what do I do in my business or my relationships or what have you? And I think the interest is a big thing that a lot of us

are really pushed away from because of the systems that we have to deal with. Society here in the States tells us you need to go to school, you need to get a job, you need to have a family, you need to do these things and blah, blah. That’s changing. That actually changed back in like the 90s, but it’s taken now our generation to be able to understand like time out, we need to do things differently. And the context of where things are with technology and just

Cleous GloWry Young (19:00.403)
Butch.

Cleous GloWry Young (19:06.323)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (19:16.448)
life in general and all of that. But the interest, it’s a through line for all of our lives that if we look back at what are the things that are interesting to us or what are the things that drive me, I think sometimes we get lost when people ask like, what gives you passion to wake up in the morning and people are like, well, I hate my job, but I really like the money it pays me. So fucking I guess that thing. And I think the big thing that we’re looking at here is like going deeper to that to go, wait a minute, if I pause for a second.

and I understand what actually moves me a bit, we can then actually take steps from there. You pointed out with being a soccer player, I had a similar, not similar in a sense, or I wasn’t signing autographs and stuff like that, but I wanted to be a rock star when I was in high school. And I remember thinking like, I’m not gonna do anything else, fuck you guys, fuck your school, I’m gonna go be a rock star, blah, blah, blah. And I remember being probably 18 and registering, I don’t know if I wanna be on tour constantly.

Cleous GloWry Young (20:02.099)
Hmm

Nick McGowan (20:16.334)
but I didn’t talk to anybody about it. And I was into all types of drugs. And honestly, if I went on tour, I probably would have been dead within six months. But I remember thinking, I don’t know if I really want to do that. And a couple of years later, actually really diving into that and going, I like traveling, but I don’t want to sleep on a fucking amp. I don’t want to sleep on a bus. I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to do that. And I think the point that I’m making with that is no matter what situation we’re in right now,

Cleous GloWry Young (20:23.235)
Thank

Cleous GloWry Young (20:34.717)
playing.

Nick McGowan (20:44.866)
business, relationship, whatever it is. To take sort of a pros and cons list as one thing, but to understand what actually fuels you, then actually helps us to understand what’s pulling us from the situation. Like you still wanted to teach, but you were being called to do something else, where it wasn’t a major detriment to what you were doing, but it just wasn’t the right vehicle. Like get out of that and jump into something else.

And I don’t want people to take from this to go, yeah, all right, well, fuck it, I’m telling that woman tonight, we’re getting a divorce, or I’m telling my boss, he can eat shit right now. Like, that’s not it at all, but being able to understand why do we feel movement inside of us? So when you feel that movement, when you start to feel like there’s something else there, what sort of advice do you give somebody that’s like, I feel there’s something in there, at least like starting to percolate a bit?

what advice would you give them to be able to actually move that onto the next path in a healthy way and not just like, I’m gonna burn the whole place down.

Cleous GloWry Young (21:44.924)
So it starts paying attention to your, and it’s funny that you mentioned these things earlier, that society says, hey, go to school, go get this job. So it’s like, what you look at is like, hey, these are not the things that I’m really interested in. It’s what society has given to me. So what society has given to us, it’s like, hey, my goodness, this is what I’m gonna formulate into. And I’m gonna formulate into somebody that

I’m not interested in. So when you look at it now and it’s like, hey, these little things begin to peek inside of you, it’s like, stop and pay attention. Like, pay attention to these little feelings that you’re having inside because this is where everything starts. Yes, you have the money, but if you feel like, wow, I don’t feel like myself, then pay attention to that because it’s like, how do you have all this money but you don’t feel like yourself?

Nick McGowan (22:16.526)
Mm-hmm.

Cleous GloWry Young (22:44.175)
Again, going back to what society has given to us, society has given, and I learned this from psychology, that they have given us what they wanted us to formulate into. So society, if you go to the library, what’s the norm that you have to do? You have to be quiet. Why? Because that’s the norm. If you go to the bar, then you start to rile up.

What happened is that society has given us all these norms that they want us to participate in, right? And at that moment, it may not be the things that we’re interested in. People are interested in, no matter who you are, you’re interested in getting love.

No matter who you are, you’re interested in getting support. No matter who you are, you need some type of interest in someone attending to what is it that you want to do in life. So when we look at it, it’s like society just says, hey, go do this and get this, right? And you get it. And when you look at it, it’s like you’re not fulfilled. Why? Because your interest is never there. They just told you, go do this and you did it. Just like me, I never understood this, but I grew up

in Jamaica and soccer was the predominant thing for our culture. So it’s not like I had any other choice to be interested in something else. It’s like, hey, soccer was always around me. So that’s what I became interested in. When I came to America now, when I sat down, it’s like, yeah, I’m playing soccer. I’m doing well, right? But it’s like something inside of me is like, hey, this is it. So when it started to come now, I started to sit down and I’m like, all right.

Nick McGowan (24:21.816)
Yeah.

Cleous GloWry Young (24:24.883)
what’s going on? Then I’m like, all right, what is it gonna be for me to be like the famous soccer player like Pelley? And when I envisioned that and I saw it and I’m like, hey, you have this wealth, you’re popular, you’re famous, all of this. It’s like, hey, that’s not me, that’s not what I want, that’s not what I’m interested in. And I sat down and I was like, hey, I want to do something more meaningful out of life.

And that little thing that just came about, I just started to pay attention to it now. What is more meaningful? What is more meaningful? That’s when you started now writing more. Because I started to look at that’s more meaningful than just playing football. It’s like a master now writing. And he’s like, but that’s not it. Let me go into teaching. And I now went into that and it’s like, hey.

Nick McGowan (24:51.566)
Hmm.

Nick McGowan (25:06.402)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (25:14.872)
Yeah.

Cleous GloWry Young (25:17.883)
It’s not it. So it’s like when you have these little things and it took me 26 years to find my interest, but it’s like, hey, when you have this little thing inside of you, it’s like start to pay attention to it. And that’s what I could give anyone as good advice. Pay attention to those little things because it will lead to something greater later on.

Nick McGowan (25:39.554)
Yeah, I mean, the fact that we all notice things. Obviously I only know my own reality and you only know your own reality and whatever we spew to each other. But all the conversations I have with people, the mentoring or the coaching I get or coaching I give or any of that stuff, or even people here on the show, it’s like, we hear different things and we feel different things. And there are times where

Cleous GloWry Young (25:49.779)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (26:07.598)
If we had to put an action to it, we basically go, fuck you, I see you, and just turn the other way and run, like, because we don’t want to deal with it. And I always like to ask again, and like the times when I do think of it, I’m aware of it, I’ll grab it like it’s an intruder in my house. Like you’re not going anywhere. I’m not going to let you leave. Let’s figure out why you’re here and what do we do with it. And I don’t think people need to be that intense with it. And I’ve actually calmed down a little bit because the first…

Little while I did that, it was too much where I’d be fucked up for like a day or so, because I’m like working on this thing. But if we are aware of those things and it keeps coming back, do something with it. If you have to have a conversation with somebody and it’s tough, sometimes it’s just a matter of saying, I don’t know how to talk about this, but I feel I need to because it keeps coming back. I think that’s a big thing that you’re pointing out of like, I saw that I was interested in these things.

I did these things and then I realized like that’s a step onto the next path and not in like a cheesy leadershipy sort of way like this is a step to success but like you do a thing and go, cool, this is in the end all be all. I feel like this is a part to what happens next but because of that, you’ve made those other decisions that have led to that sort of stuff and I think sometimes like the mindset portion of this is that people will get stuck and like today sucks, sure.

Cleous GloWry Young (27:09.01)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (27:33.282)
Today may suck and like this week or this season or whatever. But for those people that are saying, look, I’m struggling. I can understand that I need to be aware of these things and work through it specifically for the people that are trying to figure out their own version of self mastery. What advice do you give to them?

Cleous GloWry Young (27:51.316)
So, you know, as I said, 26 years ago, I had this inclination inside of me, right? That I want to do something more meaningful out of life. And I look at that now and I can see it, that has been my, what you would say, compass. So even though I gave up teaching, even though I gave up being a behavioral therapist, even though I gave up soccer and stuff like that,

The context was that hey, I had something in the background that was my compass. So no matter what I gave up, it’s like something was still guiding me on that path until I found it now 26 years later. So when you’re on this self-mastery, now I look back, right? And everything that I’ve done, I’ve said thank you because I needed to do it.

I needed to give up that teaching otherwise I wouldn’t have been here and I don’t look at it and say that was a bad experience. No. Even when I went through the depression I was blaming some friends. When I sat back and started to look now and it’s like hey this is beyond my friends right? This goes back to my childhood. And when I started to look at that now before I was blaming my friends and like hey they did these things behind my back and

Now that I found out I was so old, like I went into a state of now I was high. And then now I went into a low state because I found out that like one of my business partners did this thing behind my back, right? And that’s what led me to this depressional state. But when I looked at it now and started to peel back certain things and go back, it was like, wow, you know what? Thank you.

Because if you never did that, then what happened, this black box revelation wouldn’t even come in my journey. Now I’m having this interest in this black box theory, right? So when I look back at it now, I just go back and I’m like, wow, you know, it was bad. Yeah, the depression was bad. But guess what? It was needed. You know, I gave up teaching, but guess what? It was needed. You know, I gave up being a behavioral. All of these steps that I’ve done in the last 26 years, they were needed.

Nick McGowan (29:42.478)
Yeah.

Cleous GloWry Young (30:00.948)
Even though at that time they were painful and whatever. But going back to 26 years ago, I had this one little thing inside of me that says, hey, this is the compass. You need something more meaningful out of life. And that became a mindset and it just guided me to where I’m at right now. So anyone that’s looking for like a self mastery stuff like even for me now, yeah.

I found my interest but it’s like now I’m working on how do I master it. But I set a vision from 26 years ago that says, this is what I want. I want something more meaningful. And all these things for me was just a trial and error. that’s why I said it wasn’t hard for me to give it up because it was like, hey, this is not what I want. Why am I saying that? Because I know that

Nick McGowan (30:30.702)
Yeah

Cleous GloWry Young (30:51.635)
A couple years ago, I said I wanted something more meaningful and when I look at the equation of what I was getting, I was like, this is not meaningful. All right, let me let that go and get to somewhere else. And all of that now I started to know what is called, so I learned about this and going back to this, you remember I said about interest. Now talking to someone from a financial standpoint, right? We talk about what is called compounding interest.

And compounding interest is when you make an investment and that starts to compound. The interest starts to compound and it gives you more. So for me, it’s like I started to look at it. I’m like, wow, 26 years ago, everything that I did, it was like a compounding result to get me to this what is called a compound interest. It’s like I made an investment 26 years ago and now I’m seeing the results of all the things. And yes, I didn’t get the results when I was a teacher.

Nick McGowan (31:40.172)
Hmm.

Cleous GloWry Young (31:49.01)
I didn’t get the results when I was a soccer All these things I didn’t get the results, right? But it was what is called a compounding effect So the things that I did here, the things that I did there Everything was needed to the point of where am I today? And I know people don’t say this like, my life is perfect And that’s to them For me I could say my life is perfect Why? Because even with the downs, the ups, the left, the right

Nick McGowan (31:49.07)
you

Nick McGowan (31:58.038)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (32:08.782)
the

Cleous GloWry Young (32:17.957)
I set out 26 years ago to accumulate something in my life and that’s where I’m at now. Like, perfectly. I’m not one mile off or one decision off. I’m perfect to where I said, hey, this is what I wanted 26 years ago. So it’s like life is perfect. Do I have everything that I need? No. Do I always get everything that I need? No. But guess what? 26 years ago when I said I wanted my life to be meaningful,

Nick McGowan (32:33.741)
Hmm.

Cleous GloWry Young (32:46.771)
My life is meaningful today and not only can I figure things out for myself, I help others to figure things out for themselves. And to me, that is what my meaningfulness is all about. How could I make my life better for somebody else? When I look back at soccer, I was like, hey, when I become a celebrity, that’s me. When I make all this money, that’s me. That’s not meaningful to me. I want my life to be relevant to somebody else.

Nick McGowan (33:03.49)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (33:08.332)
Hmm.

Cleous GloWry Young (33:15.793)
and that’s what I’ve done in the last 26 years. So anyone that’s out there that’s looking for self-mastery, it’s a journey of up, it’s a journey of down, it’s a journey of left. You’re going to cry, you’re going to feel like giving up all of that, but it’s all a part of the process. And I wish I had someone there that could actually give me these advice. Akhiles, when you’re going through that hard times, right?

Nick McGowan (33:29.508)
Thank

Cleous GloWry Young (33:42.844)
is not to think about, this is the end of your story. But that’s what’s needed for you to go to the next chapter. And chapter by chapter, your life is like a book in this world. Chapter one, you start out with this. Chapter two, and by the time you finish your life in this, you’re supposed to complete a book. Why? Because that book is gonna be given to somebody else now. So your life is gone.

Nick McGowan (33:50.929)
Yeah.

Cleous GloWry Young (34:09.341)
but that book can now be given to somebody else and said, hey, this is what Cleos did. And it made a significant difference for him. You can read this book now about his life. And then now you have some type of path that you can actually go on to discover your path and begin to figure things out. And for me, that’s what I could tell anyone.

Nick McGowan (34:32.617)
Yeah, what a great way to put that too, especially to think of the legacy component of that. Even if it’s not an actual physical book or digital book or what have you, there’s still lessons and things that I think people that are within our circles see and take from us, even if we’re not freely giving it out, we’re just being who we are. And for us to be able to be aware of that to go, this thing feels off to me, or it feels right to me, or I’ve noticed this, like, I hope that somebody listens to this and goes, damn,

I keep hearing these things and now I’m hearing a podcast episode about it. Like there’s something to it, you know, like great, go do something with it. Like here’s your chance, you know? So Cletus, man, I really appreciate you being here today. Before I let you go, where can people find you and where can they connect with you?

Cleous GloWry Young (35:04.733)
So,

Cleous GloWry Young (35:18.353)
So I’m on the different social medias. They can go on either say LinkedIn or what is called Facebook or Instagram or TikTok. And you can find me there under my name, Cleous Young or the Airport Adventure or the Mountain of Miracles. Those are things that are used to actually identify me. I’m currently in Philadelphia, but I travel with different.

go to different places and stuff like that. So if people are interested in me coming out, I could come to the different locations as well. But Philadelphia is my base and it’s been a journey here. Even that, it’s like learning about who I am in this city called Philadelphia. Like learning how to master yourself in Philadelphia. So anyone that’s interested, if they’re in the Philadelphia area, I do monthly events here. They can reach out to me.

through any one of the social medias. You want to contact information as well, like phone number.

Cleous GloWry Young (36:26.383)
Okay. Yeah. So, and then just to what you just said about the book, right? You know, the Bible is a book. The Bhagavad Gita is a book. The Quran is a book. These are all stories that are put together to show that, this is what others have done. You can learn from it. And it’s like for me, that’s all my life is. It’s like…

Yeah, I write books, but I also want my life to be that book that somebody can open up afterwards when I’m gone. And it’s like, hey, this is what I could learn from this person who was here once ago. So that’s life. And to me, that’s what meaning is. Not only when you’re on here on Earth, but when you leave and you go, you can still have meaning here to somebody who is gonna take a new path to life.

Nick McGowan (37:20.28)
Yeah. Awesome, man. I appreciate you being on today. Thank you so much for your time today.

Cleous GloWry Young (37:24.973)
And thank you for having me.

In this episode, Nick speaks with Dre Baldwin about his journey from basketball to internet entrepreneurship, emphasizing mindset, self-awareness, and overcoming challenges. Listen in to discover how his experiences shaped his approach to self-mastery and success.

What to listen for:

“You can have all the right skills, desire, motivation, and resources, but if you’re in the wrong vehicle, you will not get to where you want to get to.”

“To get to the actual issue, you really have to find out who’s the person behind the issue. Who’s the person behind the problem?”

About Dre Baldwin

Dre built Work On Your Game® to turn disciplined execution into dominance. A 4x TEDx speaker and 43-time author, Dre played pro basketball for 9 years. Today, he helps experts and entrepreneurs install mindset, systems, and strategy to scale from six to seven figures with presence and power.

Resources:

Check out other similar episodes:

Are you looking for ways to better manage your daily mindset, live a happier, more fulfilled life, and pursue the depths of your soul on your path to self-mastery? Schedule a free clarity session with Nick to see if mentoring is a good fit for you.

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? Check out Nick’s website for more information: https://nickmcgowan.com/

Learn more about our host, Nick McGowan.

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan (00:00.206)
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self-Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show, we have Dre Baldwin. Dre, what’s going on, man? How are you doing?

Dre Baldwin (00:11.005)
I’m doing great, Nick. How about yourself?

Nick McGowan (00:13.004)
I’m good. I’m good. I’m stoked that you’re here. I think it’s gonna be a really good conversation. I told you right up front, I missed the memo for the suit. I’m sorry. But I appreciate you showing up and looking how you are. One of the things that stood out to me when you were your team member reached out about you being on the show was your history in basketball. And being able to tie that into the work that you’re doing now, and how your pursuit of your own version of self mastery has really flexed

through every single bit of this. So I know there’s a lot of stuff that we’re gonna get into, but that’s one of the main things that really stood out to me. So I’m excited that you’re here. I always like to get things started though with telling us what’s one thing that most people don’t know about you. It’s a little odd or bizarre and what do you do for a living?

Dre Baldwin (00:59.369)
One thing that’s a little out of bizarre. once went out on a date with a woman who turned out to be a man and What do I do for a living is I hope I get to give context to that. But anyway, what do I do for a living is We have high level professionals with structured execution if I put it in the one statement

Nick McGowan (01:12.75)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (01:20.218)
Cool. I appreciate that. I’m still chuckling a little bit like who in their right mind wouldn’t give you the platform to like follow up on that? Because the first thing I want to make sure is that you’re not saying it in a really hateful way. I assume that’s not the case. And based on what I know of you, that doesn’t seem to be the case. But again, who in their right mind be like, Nope, we’re leaving that they’re just gonna fucking cliffhanger. So go on, tell us the story.

Dre Baldwin (01:27.622)
You

Dre Baldwin (01:46.739)
So this is about, I was about 19, 18, 19 years of age. So we are both from the Philadelphia area. And every year in the summertime in Philadelphia, there’s this event called the Greek Picnic. I don’t know if you knew about it. So the Greek Picnic is all these fraternity and sorority organizations, usually the black fraternity sororities, they all have this big event down at, I think it’s the Belmont Plateau in Philadelphia. Then that’s during the day, the picnics during the day. Then at night, everybody goes to this place called South Street.

Nick McGowan (02:10.392)
Mm-hmm.

Dre Baldwin (02:16.553)
And South Street is a place in Philly where everybody just goes and walks. So was kind of like Times Square in Manhattan, the Strip in Vegas, Ocean Drive in Miami Beach. You have South Street in Philadelphia. So I did not pledge in college, but every year, even since I was in high school, we would always go to South Street and 90 degree picnic because everybody’s out there. It’s kind of like New Year’s Eve, Times Square. Everybody’s out there. It’s hard to drive, but there’s so many girls out there. You go out there just to talk to girls. So we go out there and talk to girls and I meet this girl. She was interested in me. I’m interested back. So we

exchange phone numbers and all of that. And she lived all the way down there near South Street. I lived up in the upper Northwest part of the city. I go and see her. didn’t actually go on. It technically wasn’t a date. We didn’t go anywhere. I just went to her house. We were basically sitting on the steps talking, but we sat there and talked for an hour or two. She had a roommate. Her roommate came by. She went, goes into the house and another guy while I’m sitting there talking to her, another guy comes up. He goes in to see the roommate. So anyway, we have the conversation, whatever I leave.

And a couple of days later, I’m talking to this girl on the phone and I think she noticed my naivete. And she said to me, Dre, I want to let you know something. She said, I’m a pre-op transsexual. I didn’t even quite know what that meant. And I was like, what does that mean? I did know, but I didn’t know. So I had her spell it out. And she said, no, I’m guy, I’m not as endowed as you, but I haven’t had the operation yet. And I just didn’t know. My vision was not.

tuned enough to have noticed this when it was all happening. And then I was thinking, I was like, well, what about that guy who came by while we were sitting on your steps, who went in the house to see your roommate? Because a roommate was the same thing. Also preop transsexuals. said, well, yeah, he knew the deal. So I guess he thought I knew the deal. I didn’t know the deal. So this was my learning of finding out what the situation was. So that’s the story there. That was 19 years of age. I’m 44 now.

Nick McGowan (04:04.396)
Man. Yeah, how old are you?

All right, cool, I’m 41. So back then, that you really had an opportunity to be a fucking asshole about it. There’s a lot of people, especially in the Philadelphia area, that would have been so pushed away from that, even gotten violent, and really become hateful with it. And a lot of it was normal back then. There was just hatred of other people and just…

just bullshit and especially with guys from the area, we would just be douchebags to each other. And then if something like that happened, like your boys could be after you because of it or whatever. So what a cool thing for you to not be a complete fucking asshole about it. Only for years later to understand like that is, that’s gotta be a big, big life transition for people and to not even think about it from their perspective. Like that’s awesome that she said, this is what’s going on. This is where I’m at.

That took a lot of courage to even say that and a lot of courage to step out, you know.

Dre Baldwin (05:10.899)
Yeah.

I guess so, because I think she could tell that I didn’t know. So I think most of the time back then, because we would go to South Street all the time and you would see these cross dressing men walking around. And what would happen is men would drive by in cars and I say those are men and laugh and joke and all that and just drive by. And but you could tell even from across the street, like that’s a man. She had it done well enough that I didn’t know. And I had a couple of my boys with me when I met the girl. None of them said anything. So

Nick McGowan (05:25.464)
Mm-hmm.

Dre Baldwin (05:43.294)
They didn’t know. And when I told them, they made jokes about it at the, weren’t around the girl. They made jokes about it with me. I didn’t, I just didn’t even notice. But back then with us, it would be like, okay, you could tell that’s a man. We just keep going. But I think they knew the woman or the man dressed as a woman, whatever you want to call this. They would talk to men who knew the deal. And that was just, they were just cool with it. Like that guy who walked into the house while I was there, I guess he just knew. I just didn’t know.

And back then it wasn’t even a thing that we were thinking about, not the way it is now. We weren’t thinking about it in that way. Now it’s much more open. But back then for me, it was something I had never come across.

Nick McGowan (06:21.452)
I always find it interesting how people choose to answer this question and like what the thing is like I even said before we hit record like just don’t tell me your favorite colors purple or something like that so I always appreciate when people bring something up because there’s some some reason for that like that must have shaped you in some sort of way so even if it’s a subconscious thing that yeah it shaped me but you know I really think about it too too much in this context of this conversation as we talk about that how has that actually shaped you

And way that you look at not only people and their choices, but yourself and how it’s kind of folded within your life.

Dre Baldwin (06:57.577)
Hmm. It’s an interesting question. I never thought about it like that. I always looked at it like a, it’s like a funny thing to me. That’s the reason why I bring it up. Yeah. The other thing, other thing I thought about was I once was in a hot dog eating contest. I think this is a little bit more depth. So that’s why I went with that one. But for me, I never, I never really think about it except when I’m bringing it up, like, Hey, this is, appearances can be deceiving. And nowadays it’s kind of come full circle because now no LGBTQ is a big thing. But in this is what

Nick McGowan (07:02.99)
Snapple fact sort of thing,

Nick McGowan (07:11.279)
Hahaha

Dre Baldwin (07:26.665)
19, this is like 2000 around 2000 2001. It wasn’t a big thing. We knew it existed, but it was way in the shadows. Then as opposed to how it is now. I don’t know how it has affected me subconsciously. I’ve been stopped approaching girls. I kept doing that. So I don’t know. I can’t answer that question.

Nick McGowan (07:43.534)
Yeah, I appreciate. I appreciate the honest answer. You know, like even it might be something where like down the road you realize, maybe it shaped me this way. And it’s also, it doesn’t have to, you know, that might be one of those things where like, made you kind of look a little differently at things. I find it interesting how some people like your boys, your friends would talk shit or say whatever. And maybe some of those maybe

didn’t understand exactly what was going on, but we’re trying to fit within the system of things and like, let’s have these conversations. So I always think this stuff can shape us in some sort of way, because it was just a little different or abnormal or whatever. Sometimes the meaningless things in life are the things that can mean a lot to us or the like random happenstances of things. But it’s funny pointing out like, even with South Street and how South Street is like Times Square. I’ve never thought about that, but I lived on Fitzwater for a little while.

like right off of South Street for a while. Yeah, I was actually explaining to my partner recently. I was like, when we go to Philly, we’ll have to go to South Street. South Street is like a long street where you walk in their stores. She was like, that sounds like a normal fucking street. Like, but it’s more than that, you know, so I’m going to use the Times Square thing. But that’s cool. Yeah, exactly. Some people don’t know the ocean drive thing, but like, I get that. Man, so I appreciate bringing that up with

Dre Baldwin (08:40.499)
Yeah, that’s right there.

Dre Baldwin (08:56.809)
Alright, four O’s in draft. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (09:09.782)
the path that you’re on now and the business that you’re on, I think one thing that we could easily skip past is that you spent, what was it, nine, 10 years playing professional basketball?

Nick McGowan (09:22.925)
So I have never been a professional athlete. I remember wanting to be a professional, a couple different things, you know, as a kid, just like people are like, I want to be a rock star, I want to be this, I want to be that. There’s a level of discipline. There’s a level of belief in yourself, confidence, and like fucking around and finding out to be able to execute on stuff like that. Even if you didn’t get into the NBA or if you were the fucking, I don’t know, you turned into Kevin Durant or whatever, like there’s a lot that you actually went through to figure out.

what is it that I want out of life? And you started to do that early on, but you’re not doing it at this point. So I’m interested in how that shaped you. like, tell us a bit about the journey and how that actually led into what you’re doing today.

Dre Baldwin (10:04.905)
Great question. So it started with, let’s just go back to childhood, always in the sports. And I was playing, one of the first lessons I learned was getting into the proper vehicle. So I was playing baseball for several years. And I realized by the time I got to about right before high school, and this is because when you first played baseball as a kid, you had T ball, you just hit the ball off the tee. Then you have a pitching machine. You know the pitching machine where the ball goes to the same spot every time.

I got pretty good at the pitching machine baseball, but then when we had to play against real live people throwing the ball, I couldn’t hit the ball. I probably had a little bit of fear of the ball. So I was never good at hitting and my fielding wasn’t even that great either. So I realized, okay, I’m not going to go too far in baseball. No matter how hard I try at this, I just don’t have the natural inclination, but I was still into sports. So then I moved over to basketball and I started off not good, but I could feel myself getting better at basketball and I stuck with it. And eventually came to what you mentioned.

The thing is, later on, looking back, that’s when I realized this principle that I tell people about all the time nowadays is called the right vehicle. So you can have all the right skills, desire, motivation, and resources, but if you’re in the wrong vehicle, you will not get to where you want to get to. And for some people, the right vehicle is playing baseball. For some, it’s basketball. For some, it’s not sports at all. For some, it’s analyzing sports. You can be a podcaster or a YouTuber. For some people, it’s not being in the sports realm. It’s doing something different.

Not everybody can do everything even if you put the same amount of effort in. So that’s the first principle I got from sports. Looking back, I didn’t realize that when I was 13, but I realized it later. Then moving on, barely playing in high school, played one year, sat the bench. My going to college, I went to a Division III college. So anyone who doesn’t know sports, the guys you see on TV, that’s Division I. That’s football, basketball, that’s Division I. Division II is right under that and Division III is down in the basement.

And the players in Division 3 don’t usually think they’re going to make it pro. A lot of them will say they think they will, but they don’t really believe it because I’ve always been a believer in it. You want to know what somebody believes, that’s what they do. Don’t listen to what they say. And coming out of a Division 3 school, nobody’s calling you to go play pro, most players, even if you were pretty good because you’re playing against other guys who are not pro caliber. So when I got out of college, nobody was calling me. I had to go to these events called exposure camps. You ever heard of those? Know what they are?

Nick McGowan (12:18.701)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (12:25.942)
No, but I would assume it’s like a talent sort of thing where scouts get together and see what you can do. Yeah, cool.

Dre Baldwin (12:30.621)
Yeah, casting call, a job fair for athletes. And it’s rough because you got 200 guys who all think they should be playing pro, all trying to prove themselves at the same time. And that’d cool if we were playing golf or tennis, but basketball is a team sport. So you’re playing on the same team with five other guys who all think they should be playing pro too. So everybody’s trying to show off. So it’s not the normal type of basketball. It’s not like everyone’s playing selfless basketball because they’re all trying to show off. I went to several of those over the course of my career, but

Nick McGowan (12:49.474)
Yeah.

Dre Baldwin (12:58.727)
The first one I went to led to me getting on and getting my first opportunity playing basketball. And in that experience, it was really about investing yourself. Let me tell you how I ended up at that event. So I’m from Philadelphia. The event was in Orlando, Florida. And this is the summer of 2005, graduated college in 2004. The event was not free. You pay $250 to go to the event. I reached out to the event organizers about a month ahead of time and asked them, would it be OK if I pay the event fee?

in cash at the door because I did not have a credit card or a bank account at the time. So I had to pay them in cash. They said, yes, you can pay in cash at this time. I’m working at a gym called Valley Total Fitness. I don’t know if you remember them. They’re out of business now, not because of me. I made a lot of sales and at Valley that the commission checks came on a certain Friday every month. I had I didn’t even have to work that day. I had to negotiate with my boss to get the weekend off because the event was Saturday and Sunday.

Nick McGowan (13:37.775)
yeah. yeah. Yeah.

Dre Baldwin (13:55.038)
I’m in Philly. We’re going to drive me and a couple of college teammates who are also ambitious. We’re going to rent a car in Philly and drive to Orlando. That’s a 19 hour drive. For those who don’t know the geography, I had to go to my job though first and wait for the DHL truck to come because the DHL guy brought the commission checks. I needed that commission check because I had to go around the corner to the Chinese store and cash it. So I had to cash to pay that $250 at the door. That was my last $250 at this time. I’m living in my parents’ house. I’m working at Valley Total Fitness. have a college degree, but I don’t have

anything going on. I spent that 250 at the door and I had to do something over that two day camp to get my first opportunity. So that was really about investing in yourself and really putting your back against the ball. And then you got to perform when it matters. That camp is only two days. It’s not like you have a month to prove yourself. It’s two days. And I played pretty well there. Got my first job. That was 2005. Moving on, fast forwarding in this story, there that

Nick McGowan (14:42.498)
Yeah.

Dre Baldwin (14:51.751)
basketball career wasn’t some smooth up into the right process. There’s a lot of people here, professional athlete. Now you’re an entrepreneur. So they think, okay, well, I guess it was easy for you once you got on in sports. But no, there were many times that, how do I better explain it? When there are people in acting, let’s say in the movies, you have your Leonardo DiCaprio’s or Scarlett Johansson’s, they get $50 million to do a movie Will Smith. And no, they don’t do a movie for a year or two. They’re okay. Most actors and actresses careers don’t go that

Nick McGowan (15:18.509)
Mm-hmm.

Dre Baldwin (15:21.159)
Most actors and actresses in between movies, what are they doing? All right, they’re bartending, they’re working at Starbucks and they’re bagging groceries. They don’t know if they’re gonna get another job. They are going from casting call to casting call, hoping to get an opportunity to get on. And in sports is the same way. Not every athlete is LeBron James or Lamar Jackson. A lot of athletes are on the fringes, meaning you have a job then you don’t. You’re waiting for your agent to call. You have to stay in shape just in case the call comes, if the call comes.

Nick McGowan (15:24.664)
Part-time job. Yeah.

Thank

Nick McGowan (15:34.755)
Yeah.

Dre Baldwin (15:49.546)
Then when it comes, you don’t know how long you’re going to be there because you may face the squeeze on the roster and you’re the one who gets squeezed, not because you can’t play, but because it’s just a numbers game. So a lot of times in my career, even playing overseas, it can be like that. So there are a lot of times in between jobs over the course of my career, I played on a different team every year. I never played in the same team twice in a row or twice total. Every year was a different team, every year, a different country because in between job and in between jobs, didn’t know where the next job was coming or if the next job was coming.

Nick McGowan (15:58.05)
Yeah.

Dre Baldwin (16:18.569)
There are times where I had to go get a job because there was no job. So the last time I had it, I went and got two more jobs in between the start of my career. My last job was in 2007. I signed in Montenegro 2008. Haven’t didn’t work a quote unquote regular job after that. That was because I was on this new thing called YouTube. And that’s where I started to build my brand. And that’s where I realized about 2009, 2010, I was putting basketball video content on the internet. That’s when I realized.

What I’m doing here on the internet is gonna be bigger than what I’m doing on the basketball court. Even though my content was basketball, it was the internet that was amplifying my name. So if I go to the mall right now today in Miami and somebody recognizes me, it’s not because I played in Slovakia for six months. It’s because I was on YouTube for 10 years making that basketball content. That’s where people know me from, is from YouTube. And I knew back then, I said, this internet thing is gonna be bigger for me than anything I’m doing on the court. And I was right about that.

Nick McGowan (17:00.983)
Hehehe.

Dre Baldwin (17:15.625)
At that time, I finished reading this book called The Four Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss, I’m you’re familiar with. And in that book, Tim was talking about how you can take an idea and start putting on internet and make money from it. I followed his advice and I started selling $5 training programs to basketball players. That’s where I knew my future was in internet entrepreneurship, or entrepreneurship powered by the internet, let’s put it that way. Harking back a little bit in the story, about 2002.

I people can keep up with this timeline. know I’m jumping a lot here. About 2002, I got introduced to a business opportunity. It turned out to be network marketing. I did not build a career in network marketing, but I went to some meetings. And I’m forever grateful for the meetings that I went to and the dabbling that I did in network marketing, because it teaches you a lot about entrepreneurship. It teaches you a lot about how to make money other than a traditional nine to five job, which is what my parents had. That’s all I knew until then. And also you learn a lot about people when you’re…

trying to sell them into a network marketing opportunity. So you want to know about yourself too. And as a great sales crash course. in there, two things I got from that. Number one, well, three things. Number one is the entrepreneurship. Number two is that they mentioned these books. They would say personal development, personal development. You got to do the personal development. And they would just mention the names of these authors who I’d never heard of. They would say Tony Robinson, Jim Rohn, and Brian Tracy, and Napoleon Hill. And I’m like, who? I never heard any of these people.

Nick McGowan (18:17.442)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (18:29.475)
Mm-hmm.

Dre Baldwin (18:39.475)
But I remembered the names. I couldn’t afford the books. They were selling them right outside the hotel room. I couldn’t afford them. But I remember the names. So I went on eBay. So again, those of you old enough, eBay before Amazon was the place you went to eBay to buy stuff. Went on eBay and I bought two pirated copies of two books that I could remember. One of them was called Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. And I bought that book. It showed me that there is a way that you could intentionally alter your conscious thoughts that would alter your behavior and thus alter your outcomes. And he was right.

Nick McGowan (18:51.47)
the

Dre Baldwin (19:08.839)
And other book I bought was called Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. And that book told me, there’s another way that you can actually be an adult and make money other than what I saw the adults around me doing. And the reason why I was so inclined to look at what Mr. Kiyosaki was saying is because my parents showed up every day, did their jobs. They never bragged about it. They never announced it. They did their work every day. The reason I am

Nick McGowan (19:19.255)
Okay.

Dre Baldwin (19:35.038)
what people will call a disciplined person to this day is because the example that I had at home from my parents. At the same time, the adults around me talked about work as a necessary evil. It wasn’t, get to go to work. It was, have to go to work. They talked about their jobs as if it was a somewhat negative thing, good because it paid the bills, but negative because they didn’t really like it. And they didn’t really like the people they had to deal with. And I was looking at them thinking, okay, well, I graduated from college. I guess I got to go do maybe a little bit better version of what they’re doing.

Nick McGowan (19:45.42)
Mm-hmm.

Dre Baldwin (20:03.431)
But when I read Kiyosaki, he said, there’s another way to do it. And anybody who’s read the book knows he’s juxtaposing his real dad who had a great education, went and got a job and his friends, best friends, dad, the rich dad. He was the one who dropped out of school, but was a business owner. He owned assets and he made money. He seemed happy about going to work. Whereas his poor dad, his real dad got kicked out of the system when he got too old and too expensive for the system. So that put me onto that. And that I got all that from network marketing. Anyway, combined that with Tim Ferriss.

seven, eight years later, combined that with the internet, combined that with social media and basketball, that’s where I started to build what became my company, which was helping basketball players at first, and it transitioned into where we are today. Let me jump again in the story. 2015, I’m looking at the end of the road. Okay, I’m going to get out of basketball. What am I going to do next? So at this point, I was starting to make these mindset videos where basketball players who are watching me,

my material was all basketball for about the first five years, 2005 to 2010. The players started asking me about mindset because they saw I was putting out videos every single day before that was a normal thing to do. Nowadays, that’s normal. But back then it wasn’t normal. So they’re like, why are you going to the gym every day to work out? Sometimes because I would tell them where I who I was. Division three, Kyle is playing overseas right now. I’m unemployed. You don’t even know if you get another job, Jerry. Why do you keep working out? How do you keep yourself motivated? Or you got cut from your high school team three times like me.

Nick McGowan (21:10.968)
Mm-hmm.

Dre Baldwin (21:28.753)
How did you keep going when you got cut and there was no right at the end of the tunnel? And I started talking about things like discipline and confidence and mental toughness and being prepared and how you had to take negative situations and use them as fuel for positive action. And I called it the weekly motivation. And what happened is a bunch of people who didn’t play basketball started finding me there. That’s when I knew, okay, I can take this aspect of what I’m doing and I can serve people outside of the realm of sports, even when I don’t play anymore.

Because I knew that if I stopped playing basketball every day and putting these videos out, my $5 products are going to stop selling. I could read the writing on the wall. I saw how it worked. I could tell you that 15 years ago. People are now realizing it now on TikTok, but I knew that back then. So that’s how I knew what I was going to do next. I need to take this mindset stuff, and I’m noticing people who don’t play basketball need it. And that’s what became what I do today. So that was 2015, and now here we are. So let me stop my story so you can get back to ask some questions.

Nick McGowan (22:04.782)
you

Nick McGowan (22:28.078)
Like a true professional, ladies and gentlemen, somebody who’s been on many podcasts. I always look for what are the main components of these things. And one of the biggest things that I have learned from being specifically on this show and running this show for four plus years is if you don’t have awareness, you can’t do anything. You just can’t. If you’re not aware of something, you can’t do anything with something you’re not aware of.

And a lot of people will push their awareness off like the people that hate their jobs, you know, I got to go to my job. It’s got to pay for things. There can be a level of awareness to go, but wait a minute, fucking time out. If I don’t like this, why don’t I do something else? You and I experienced similar things where people just bitching complain and just fond of bitching complain. Then they belly up to the bar at the end of the week and drink through the weekend and then bitching complain throughout the week and just rinse and repeat instead of going, hold on timeout. Let me do something different.

you had a lot of different iterations and things that led you to something else. Like looking back, you probably would have thought way back in the day, I’m gonna be a professional ball player and make millions of dollars. This is how my life is gonna go. Cause you’re on that path and you’re really pushing for it. Even to go spend your last $250 all the way in Orlando, which 19 hours is if you’re fucking moving.

Dre Baldwin (23:48.723)
So,

Nick McGowan (23:49.408)
Most people will take like a day and they’ll have to stop, but you and a couple of friends like taking turns asleep and I’ve done that drive before I get it. There’s a lot of different things that could have really pushed you off the path, but you kept going with the path. And that’s what I like to be able to break apart of like, actually kept you going with that? Because you’re aware enough to go, hmm, well.

I don’t know if I’m going to get another job doing this, but I’m seeing that I’m having these conversations and I want to talk about these things. Even like with you to say the new thing, YouTube back then, it gets wild to think that, I don’t know, we weren’t super young when YouTube was new, but geez, we really were. And you were early to it, you know? I talked to people about social media at times where I’m like, I had a social media marketing company in 2013 and I was fucking late.

Dre Baldwin (24:31.303)
this early 20s.

Nick McGowan (24:43.508)
seven years late and other people now that keep pushing these things, they’re still doing the same thing over and over and over instead of actually saying what’s actually working. What do I want? What do I want to do with this sort of stuff? And I’d love that you actually, you saw a positive in the network marketing. There are a lot of people that shit on MLMs and network marketing because they’ve had bad experiences or they’ve had friends that have tried to push everything on them or wrap fucking things around their stomachs or.

tell them they can make money with a light switch or whatever. But you learn a lot through that. And I think that’s a big thing that taking those steps that are risky at times, like think back to the 250, that was a risk. But you were like, fuck it, I wanna go play ball. I’ll drive all the way down there. There are a lot of people in Philly that didn’t wanna do that. They wouldn’t have done it. They wouldn’t have even cashed that check or rented the car.

or gotten into the vehicle to drive down there, let alone all the other things that you did. So you had all these little steps that you had to take. There were all these little risks pieces. So how did you tie that into not only what you’re talking about mindset wise, but specifically for yourself? Like what are you able to look back to and go, man, I was really good at this thing. Like you pointed out discipline, because your parents got up, their shoes on, got to work, did their thing, took care of their kids and moved along in life. That’s great, but that’s just one.

Dre Baldwin (26:04.835)
Mm-hmm. Bye.

Nick McGowan (26:07.95)
piece of the recipe. What are the other pieces for you that have really helped you figure out this is what works for me and what I can share with other people.

Dre Baldwin (26:16.413)
Great question. I’m glad you contextualize it that way because it reminds me of something else. So first thing I’ll say, 2013 you had a social media marketing company. I’m sure you were doing well. That was a good business to be in in 2013. Yeah, I can imagine. So speaking of a couple of things, my parents and Napoleon Hill. So Napoleon Hill and Think and Grow Rich talks about this concept of transmutation.

Nick McGowan (26:26.702)
It was, but we were still late. Yeah.

Dre Baldwin (26:39.273)
And transmutation is about how you take, it’s the law of conservation of energy. states, energy is neither created nor destroyed, merely changes forms and moves from one object to another. So my parents were traditional, basically it was called them nine to five years. My mom’s in education. My dad worked basically construction as a day job. He was a musician by night. That was his passion, but he didn’t do it full time. This was before, you know, social media. If he was around now, he was my age now, he’d probably have his own brand. Couldn’t do it in 1985, right? So.

Nick McGowan (27:07.182)
short.

Dre Baldwin (27:08.999)
So when I graduated from college, again, division three college, my parents don’t know a ton about sports. My dad’s a big sports fan, so they knew some. They don’t know anything about overseas basketball, but they know division three from division one. I come home from college and they say, what are you gonna do now with your degree? I say, I’m gonna be a professional basketball player. Now mind you, I have no prospects. I have no offers. I have no contracts on the table. My mom’s an educator. So her biggest thing was both of my kids are gonna go to college and get a degree because neither of my parents had their degrees when my sister and I got our degrees. My sister became a college professor just to give you a

some comparison and my mom’s an educator, very good educator at that. So I say, I’m going to be a basketball player with no prospects. My mom can’t believe it because I sacrificed all this, her talking, I sacrificed all this for you to get your degree and get your education. And now you say you’re to be a basketball player. It was kind of like I was throwing it all away because again, if it would be one thing, if the New York Knicks were offering me a contract, I wasn’t getting offered anything. So she’s like, well, how are you going to do it? She started asking me.

questions that any logical person would answer and there were no answers to the questions. And she essentially was saying, hey, if you don’t have any answers to these questions, well, you need to go, you’re living under our roof. You’re an adult now. You’re still eating food. You’re using the electricity. You need to go get a job. And she was right. Nothing she said was wrong. It wasn’t even highly critical. was just, she was holding a mirror up to me and my dad basically co-signed everything that she was saying. Now that even though she wasn’t wrong, the mirror being held up to me angered me.

Not that she said anything specifically that bothered me or that my dad said anything specifically. was just the reality was the reality. So the reality became one of my oppositions. And I’ll tie this in in a moment. The other thing was in college, I didn’t even play my senior year because my junior year after my sophomore year, my junior year, the coach who recruited me got fired. New coach comes in and anybody knows anything about college sports. When a new coach comes into a program, they clean house. The same way that when a new CEO joins a company,

some of upper management, middle management gets flushed out, not because you’re not good, but because they want to bring in their own people. I ended up out of the program. So my senior year, I was in school, fully eligible, fully healthy, didn’t play basketball. And this is at a division three school. So again, it’s not like I’m looking at future NBA players when I’m watching games. And that bothered me because in my mind, I knew I was better than the players who were on the team. But at the same time,

Nick McGowan (29:11.512)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (29:24.188)
He

Dre Baldwin (29:31.53)
I’m objective enough to look at myself. can step outside of myself and look at myself and say, OK, well, you think you’re better than them. But let’s look at the reality. Here they are playing. Here you are not playing. And again, this is the Vision 3 school. So how can you prove you’re better than them? Your eligibility is up. This is before name, image, and likeness. Eligibility is up. They’re on the team. You’re not. How can you prove this? Well, the good thing about back then, there’s no YouTube. There’s only one level to go after college in sports. And that’s the pros.

Nick McGowan (29:48.248)
Mm-hmm.

Dre Baldwin (29:59.422)
That story that I told you about how I made it pro and the things I was doing once I made a pro was not just off of talent. It wasn’t just off of intellect or strategy. It was the transmutation of the, if you want to call it disappointment, sadness, anger, embarrassment, frustration of those situations. That was the gas in the tank. I needed to prove for posterity sake that my career was not going to be ended by this coach and no, none of these players are going to be able to say that they outdid me. And also

Nick McGowan (30:12.163)
you

Dre Baldwin (30:28.017)
my parents, I wasn’t angry at them. They didn’t do anything wrong. They didn’t stop me. But the fact that they held up the mirror, they were the messenger. You know, sometimes you sometimes you to kill the messenger. I didn’t kill my parents, but they were the messenger. And I took it out on I didn’t I wasn’t angry at them personally. But I took that energy from both of those situations. And that was no the gas in the tank to get me from Philadelphia to Orlando. That’s a good metaphor right there. That’s right. So that’s that was a big part of what I did. I don’t even remember what your question was.

Nick McGowan (30:37.07)
Sure.

Nick McGowan (30:51.154)
Literally.

Nick McGowan (30:57.646)
It’s all good. Sometimes that’s the best. You’re like, I’m riffing in this direction. Because like you’d said, this this reminds you of some other things, you know, I think it’s interesting how, look, there are different conversations that have been had in so many circles, everybody’s had this sort of conversation, don’t let people shit on your dreams, don’t let people tell you not to blah, blah, blah. And I think a lot of that conversation misses the fucking mark in a big way, because there’s no context to it. Like your mom is an educator.

seems to be a logical person asking you logical questions. You interpret it in some sort of way where part of it was like, see it, but fuck you. But I also see what you’re saying. And I’m gonna go this route and I’m gonna go do this thing. And then there are specifically people that are like, no, you don’t wanna do that. This is gonna happen and it’s all gonna be terrible. Cause their fear and all that sort of stuff. There’s a level of discernment that you can sometimes not have the ability to have.

because you trust those people so much. And that’s where I think some of the conversation is like, don’t let your family shit out of your dreams, blah, blah. Yes, and still give more to it. If somebody’s trying to love on you and they have their own things, it’s on us to not interpret it in such a way, but it can be really hard when you go, it’s my mom, it’s my whoever, it’s this person. But some of those things will also move us in a beautiful direction. Like I think back to high school and bring this up at different times.

Where do you remember being in like 11th grade with like, we’re going to sit you down. We’re going to talk about what college you want to go to, what things you want to do. So next year we can start ramping and doing all these things. Well, when I sat down with the counselor, she was like, all right, well, you’re a musician and an art kid. Like I was one of those kids that if I didn’t want to be in class, I’d be like, I got a project. They’d be like, fuck off. And I’d go and live in the art room. And this counselor was literally like, well, we can get you into music school or art school, but you’re probably not going to make any money. So what do you want to do? And I checked out.

I was like, well, don’t want to fucking be here and talk to you because you just told me I’m going to be a starving artist. So fuck that. I ended up getting into a multi-level marketing company like six months later and you learn so much from that shit. And there’s things that I think some people learn manipulation. Other people learn how to actually be better versions in themselves. And some people use it as stepping stone and all that. Like you and I both did that where we didn’t do network marketing forever.

Nick McGowan (33:23.936)
It was a stepping stone that opened up a whole new world. But then later on in life, you start to see how systems work and how different pieces and components work with things. But you made all these different choices without letting people affect the way that you went about them while still taking some of the consideration of it. And I’m pointing it out in that sort of way, because as I said to you, even off air, the idea is for people to get something from this where they go, huh, maybe I need to think about this a little differently.

And somebody roughly our age or even in their late thirties or early fifties or whatever, you’ve been through enough of a career and have enough of a body of work in a sense where then you can look back and you can see patterns of things. What do I like? What do I not like? What do I actually want? Those are really fucking tough questions for people to ask because then they go, well, what if I don’t want my family? What if I don’t want this job that I’ve been here for 25 years? Or what if I want to do something totally different?

Dre Baldwin (34:13.513)
Hmm.

Nick McGowan (34:22.688)
And there’s a balance to that. Like, there are people that are like, fuck it, I was a lawyer one day and next thing you know, I’m painting and that’s it. There’s context there. There’s many conversations they’ve had in their own head. So what does that look like with the work that you do now, specifically with different people that are progressing through their life and having those conversations or maybe shying even away from those conversations within themselves?

Dre Baldwin (34:48.969)
It’s a great question because a lot of times these days, mostly working with professionals, entrepreneurs, high performers, these people usually come to you with a high performer level surface level issue, usually based around money and or the things they need to do to make money, more marketing, better clients, transitioning, quitting my job, starting a business, et cetera. So to get to the actual issue, that is an issue. Yes, they do want to make more money. Yes, they do need better clients and they want to sell this course or whatever it is they’re doing.

But to get to the actual issue, you really have to find out who’s the person behind the issue. Who’s the person behind the problem? And noticing their patterns, noticing their mental blocks. Sometimes the mental block is they can’t see themselves charging more money. Sometimes the mental block is I know who pays me the most money. That’s the top 20 % of my clientele, but the bottom 80 % for me to drop them, they’re going to think I’m a jerk. They’re going to think I don’t value them. They may not like me.

Nick McGowan (35:35.48)
Yeah.

Dre Baldwin (35:47.758)
They just don’t have the heart to do it. Not drop them, but pass them off to somebody who’s less senior than you and your company. Sometimes that’s the challenge for people. Sometimes the challenge is just moving themselves to do the things that need to be done, the grunt work. And there is no business, no career that does not have grunt work. A lot of people think that there is one, there isn’t one. There is some type of work you have to do no matter what you do for a Sometimes it’s moving themselves to be able to do that. Sometimes when I’m working with people, sometimes it’s professionals, but there’s a personal issue.

I’m not spending as much time with my kids as I want to. My wife is not initiating sex as often as she needs to. A single man who just wants to talk to more girls, but he keeps second guessing himself and hesitating and him and in hauling when he sees a girl on the train and by the time he approaches her, the energy is gone because he waited too long. So it’s sometimes just it’s not sometimes, but all the time finding out who the person is. And once we get to that part and we get through the layers of the surface level stuff that they’ve gotten so used to telling people and we get to the personal stuff.

And that’s when we can start to make the change because even though that personal stuff, the stuff that people see in the mirror, it’s hard to sell because you can’t count it, measure it, you can’t see it. That’s the main thing most people need. But almost nobody shows up saying, this is what I want. They show up saying, I want the thing on the surface, the thing I can count, measure and check the box for. But the only way to get those resolved is we got to get to who the person is. So you have to show them this, but you got to give them that. So the metaphor I like to use is feeding medicine to a dog.

Nick McGowan (36:55.48)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (37:01.24)
the

Dre Baldwin (37:16.963)
You they don’t really need the peanut butter, but they say they want the peanut butter, but you got to hide the medicine inside of it. So you got to get them to understand. Yes, I can help you with the surface level issue. Now that they believe that what we’re going to get to without me even having to say it explicitly, Nick, is we have to figure out who is the person you see in the mirror, because until this person changes, you’re never going to be willing to confidently say that number in the middle of a meeting to get the price that you want for this project. You keep charging about our you need to be charged about the project.

Nick McGowan (37:34.838)
Mm-hmm.

Dre Baldwin (37:44.424)
Now you’re accepting $200 an hour. You need to be charging them 100K for the project for six months, but you’re not willing to say that number. So until we fix how you see yourself, I can say the number for you. I can go get the deal, but you can’t get it. You have to say the number. So we got to deal with that part. Not all this other, all these other things are just details is we got to get to who you see in the mirror because who you see in the mirror leads to how you carry yourself energetically. 85 % of communication is nonverbal. So

Whatever you see in the mirror is how you carry yourself. Other people pick up on that non-verbally. They respond to it non-verbally. That leads to them saying yes or no for reasons that have nothing to do with what you actually said and nothing to do what they actually said. So whatever reason they gave you is not the real reason. And whatever you think is the reason is not the real reason. But that is the main conversation. Most people don’t understand that. So my job is helping people understand that and understand when you get the non-verbal part right, what you say verbally doesn’t really matter that much.

Nick McGowan (38:29.166)
You

Dre Baldwin (38:41.915)
One thing you learn in sales, you can’t say the right thing to the wrong person. You can’t say the wrong thing to the right person. When the energy is right, it doesn’t matter. But most people are so stuck in their heads, especially high performance, because high performance is usually really smart. They have a lot of information, a lot of knowledge. They read a ton of books. They’ve written books. It’s hard to get them to get past the intellectual level to the energetic level. But that’s where everything is happening.

Nick McGowan (38:45.912)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (38:49.624)
Yeah.

Nick McGowan (39:05.353)
I’m so glad that you got to this point of the energetic level. There are the things that were, yeah, we want the surface thing because we need the surface thing. Just like we want to sell things because really we want to do these other things. Some people, it’s a thing where, I want to sell more because I want a second home or I want a beach house or whatever. That’s an issue in and of itself. If it’s like, I just want to do this to buy this thing where I’m not going to go down that path, but…

The reason why I bring that up is I think there are times where we can look at things and say, want this because other people want me to want it. The system of the world tells me I should have this. Like showing up to a meeting in this bad ass car, like if you have a broken down car or something that actually makes sense for you to have, and you enjoy having a 2009 Accord or whatever it is, that shouldn’t dictate the type of level of service that you have. But people will think that they have to put on this facade and the charade.

because they’re afraid to be themselves when in most times, as you know, most people don’t know who themselves are. They don’t know who it is that they really want to be or what they want to do. The energetic part of it is so huge, especially in sales. I mean, you and I could shoot the shit on sales forever. I think about the people that I’ve trained over the course of time where they just have such a hard time not reading a script because they can’t embody it.

They can’t embody the framework of how to have the conversation to ultimately level the person and fucking just see if you can help. Cause if he can’t get off the phone, if you can, beautiful, continue the conversation. But the bullshitting is not going to help either one of you. But people will go, well, I have to do this. And we do it mostly to ourselves. Like if you think about how many people talk shit to themselves, like, geez, if that was a friend or somebody outside, you would have a restraining order, you know, like you’d be fearing for your life.

So getting to that level is really difficult for a lot of people, even the people that do a lot of the work, because it’s asking them to shake the boundaries and the foundation of themselves. And that can be really uncomfortable, especially for high performers that are like, I’ve been doing this at such a high level. Now you’re asking me to go backward. Now we’re asking you to actually adjust the foundation so you go forward from there. I mean, I really appreciate you being on today. Appreciate the wisdom and the insight.

Nick McGowan (41:28.056)
For those people that are on their path towards self-mastery, be it somebody who’s a performer or somebody who’s an athlete or somebody who’s just really trying to figure out how do they fit within their own little piece of the world, what’s your advice for them on their path towards self-mastery?

Dre Baldwin (41:43.546)
Biggest thing is for people to get more fully present with themselves. Everybody’s heard the term being fully present. What presence is, is not something that you learn, is not something you add on, is not something you develop. Presence already exists. Presence is what remains when you strip away all the noise, all the excess. So anything that’s coming from your smartphone is noise. Text messages, emails, notifications, any app you can get on, all of it is noise. It’s an added on. It didn’t come with you standard equipment when you were born.

Nick McGowan (42:04.078)
You

Dre Baldwin (42:12.829)
Your thoughts about the future is noise because you’re time traveling into the future that didn’t happen. You’re reminiscing on the past is noise because you’re time traveling into the past that already happened. You thinking about something that’s not happening where you are right now in the moment where your feet are is noise because you are not in the place that you are. You’re not grounded in the current moment. Presence is what’s left when you strip away all that excess. The challenge for many people is that presence bothers them because they’re left with the only thing they don’t want to deal with, which is themselves.

When you strip everything away, all that’s left is just you dealing with you. And that’s uncomfortable for people. And interestingly enough, a lot of high performers are uncomfortable with themselves. So what we do is we keep adding on more noise. You can listen to another podcast. You can read another book. You can watch another YouTube video. You can go gather more information. You can go give out more information. That all keeps your mind stimulated and occupied so you don’t have to deal with yourself. When you get used to dealing with yourself, you calm down that, as they say, the monkey mind.

This is what they talk about in mindfulness or yoga or any type of meditation when you get comfortable being with yourself your signal Internally that you project externally gets ten times stronger and you actually get better results The challenge is you had to deal with the withdrawal symptoms of turning all that stimulus off Doesn’t mean you can’t stimulate doesn’t mean you don’t read talk do your work But you have to be able to turn it off and control it instead of it controlling you the world that we’re in now today Nick these devices

have trained us to be controlled. We’re not in control anymore. We’re being controlled. We have to still have a device. I still got a phone. I got two phones on my desk and an iPad and a computer, but I control them. They don’t control me. Exactly. So the thing is you have to learn to control them and turn them off when you want to not be pulled in by the dopamine rush. I think that’s the biggest thing in the world we’re in today, especially for the highly intelligent high performers.

Nick McGowan (43:41.806)
Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (44:04.216)
Yeah, and that could be fun. Literally in those moments like where you know, like I think about myself at times. I’m an iPad kid in a way. Like I have my video games that I play and I’ll veg out and I kind of work through them are primarily like 2K games, know, NBA and NFL and stuff. But there are times where I can feel like, I’ve just been doing this for a bit. And it’s an actual lift to put the fucking thing down to step up.

move out of the energy of watching TV, even if you’re like, look, I’m gonna give myself an hour or two to just veg and whatever. When you feel it, that’s one of those moments where it’s like you have an opportunity to do something with it, because you are really present and you’re aware of yourself enough to go, all right, motherfucker, get up, get out of here, go do something else. That is one of those moments that people that have a hard time sitting with themselves miss those because you don’t see them more often. But when you see it,

You can’t not see it. Like I joke about self-awareness at times. Like the more aware you become, the fucking more aware you become. And the more aware you become, the more aware you become. Like you can’t get away from it. And it can be really tough, but I appreciate the work that you’re doing. There’s a lot when people say like, you know, you want to be mindful. Like I hear from times different, different people listening. They’re like, you can’t just mindset your way through life. Like I get it. Listen to the fucking conversations. That’s not what we talk about. It’s not about just.

forcing yourself to do a thing that either one of us are saying. It’s about actually taking this and figuring out how does it work into my life? And how do I think about things a little differently? And what do you want to do from there? So Dre, I appreciate you being on today. This has been awesome. I’m sure we could just sit here and just keep talking about things, but it is almost top of the art. Before I let you go, where can people find you and where can they connect with you?

Dre Baldwin (45:51.997)
They can just go to work on your game.com work on your game.com and anything you need will be found there.

Nick McGowan (45:58.262)
Awesome. Again, man, I appreciate your time today. Thank you very much.

Dre Baldwin (46:01.321)
Thanks for having me on Nick, appreciate the conversation.

In this episode, Nick explores the concepts of confidence and certainty, their differences, and how they influence personal growth. He discusses practical insights on how understanding these can improve mindset, decision-making, and emotional resilience.

What to listen for:

“If we don’t have confidence, we’re probably pretty uncertain about something.”

“Confidence in the work, certainty in the results.”

About Nick McGowan

I’m Nick McGowan, an entrepreneur, podcaster, and mental health advocate, and I’ve been on a 20+ year journey of personal development, learning to master my mindset, emotions, and the art of living with purpose.

As a Mindset and Self-Mastery Mentor, I work with ambitious men and women who want to live their most authentic and joyous lives by helping them master their mindset, emotional awareness, and authentic communication. My mission is to empower people to lead lives that feel aligned, grounded, and truly their own.

Throughout my career, I’ve built teams, streamlined systems, and improved client experiences across SaaS, media, marketing, and personal development spaces. Whether I’m leading cross-functional projects, optimizing SEO, Podcasting, designing strategies, or guiding clients through transformation, I bring a hands-on, solution-focused approach to everything I do.

I’m also the host of The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show, where my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, challenge us, and ultimately guide us back to who we are at our core. On this show, we uncover the secret gems others have discovered through trial and error and breakthroughs, so you can fast-track your growth and master your mindset in your pursuit of self-mastery. Check out the latest episode here.

With years of podcasting and two decades of marketing experience, I’ve mastered the storytelling, interview flow, strategy, and technical production that elevate a podcast from “just content” to something truly impactful. Whether you’re a leader looking to amplify your message, a seasoned speaker and podcast host looking to sharpen your edge, or even a beginner who is wondering how to share their message, I mentor thought leaders through every step of having the conversation they’re here to have on this planet.

So, what message are you here to share?!

Resources:

Check out other episodes about our confidence and clarity

Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have? https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/podcasting-services/

Learn more about our host, Nick McGowan
https://nickmcgowan.com/

Thank you for listening!

Please subscribe on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089

Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/

Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA

Guest Inquiries right here: [email protected]

Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show”

Nick McGowan 00:00
No matter what we’ve done in life or what we’re doing right now, whether that’s purpose work, working on past traumas and really trying to figure out how to manage our mindset on a daily, it comes down to us understanding from a confidence perspective that you may be confident in the thing that you’re doing. It’s not the exact same as being certain in how you’re going about it.

Nick McGowan 00:28
Hello and welcome to the Mindset and Self-Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show, I wanna talk about how confidence and certainty factor into personal growth. What is confidence, and what is certainty? Confidence is feeling like you’re able to actually get something done. It’s really the intent for the impact that you wanna have. You’re confident that you feel like you can get this thing done, whatever that thing is. Certainty is 100 % knowing that it’s going to happen.

Nick McGowan 00:58
And there’s a small little bit of difference between those and really kind of a gray area where certainty and confidence can intersect, but they can also play at odds with each other. If you go into something certain that something’s going to happen, you’re going to lack confidence or maybe you’re going to have a bit more confidence. I think about it in the sense of if you know that you want to go in and have a really tough conversation with somebody you work with, that’s different.

Nick McGowan 01:26
than a tough conversation with your partner or your spouse or somebody that you love. You may be certain going into that, that you have the facts, you have the things together, you need to be able to have the proper conversation. And you can feel confident knowing that you have those, but anything can happen at that point. Somebody could say something, somebody could bring something up that you’re unaware of, and that can knock down your confidence. That could absolutely destroy your certainty at that point.

Nick McGowan 01:55
So if you think of confidence, just being confident in moving through the world, I’m sure you’ve seen different people that seem to be super confident, but have no idea what they’re doing in life. When you’re confident and you have this internal belief that what you’re doing, you’re going to give it your all and that you’re able to move into something without any hesitation, that’s vastly different than even having some confidence.

Nick McGowan 02:21
Like if you kinda know I’m gonna move into this situation or this conversation and I feel good about what I’m doing, that’s vastly different than being able to move into something with full confidence. You’ve experienced that, we’ve all experienced that. No matter what we’ve done in life or what we’re doing right now, whether that’s purpose work or that’s working on past traumas and really trying to figure out how to manage our mindset on a daily, it comes down to us understanding from a confidence perspective.

Nick McGowan 02:51
that you may be confident in the thing that you’re doing. It’s not the exact same as being certain in how you’re going about it. Makes me think of when people talk about practicing, practice makes perfect. I’ve also heard that if you practice the wrong things, of course you’re not gonna be perfect in what you’re trying to be perfect in, which makes sense. That’s kind of a duh situation. A lot of people will actually go through life working on things that they think they need to work on and being confident that they’re working

Nick McGowan 03:19
on the things that they’re working on that actually tie to deeper core wounds and will make actual change in their life. They’re not certain about it. And finding certainty in what you’re doing can really take a level of confidence, but also a level of understanding and empathy and courageousness to be able to move through something with certainty. I feel like some of this may be a bit ambiguous and I’m somewhat trying to keep it that way because

Nick McGowan 03:48
your situation in life and your context is different than mine. Even if they’re similar, there’s still nuances and differences and things that we go through that maybe affect us differently or affect the way that we handle situations differently or the way that we view life on the daily. When I think of confidence and I think of certainty tying into and really factoring into our personal growth, I think about being confident in myself being able to do the work.

Nick McGowan 04:17
And even if I don’t always feel certain that the work will help me grow and change, I am confident in the patterns that I’ve seen over the course of time and how things work, which then ties back into my certainty. Let’s think about that. For confident in the things that we’re doing and we’re working on, certainty can come along with that as we see examples of how things work, like the work that we’re doing for ourself.

Nick McGowan 04:43
As a prime example, if you’re going through therapy right now, maybe you’ve been in therapy for years and years and years. I am certain that therapy works, but I’m uncertain if what you’re doing right now is actually working for you. The modality may need to be changed up. If you’re doing talk therapy right now, maybe it’s EMDR or DBT or something that really gets deeper to your subconscious to be able to rewrite those stories and change those. I’m certain that

Nick McGowan 05:12
Anything like that can ultimately help, but I’m uncertain of what’s exactly going to help you. If you’re confident and moving through and trying the different modalities, you can also be certain that health and happiness and growth will come from that. If we think about being able to tie the two together, if we don’t have confidence, we’re probably pretty uncertain about something. If we’re certain about something, we probably at least have a little bit of confidence to it.

Nick McGowan 05:40
and a little bit of boost that goes along with it. I just wanted to have this be a relatively quick episode to be able to get into those two topics. And I’m gonna expand upon those just throughout other episodes as I do. That was on my heart today to be able to talk about. And I want you to be able to take from this that if you’re certain about a situation will turn out positive or negative, then you can be confident in some ways that you’re right. But if you’re certain about a situation that’s positive or negative,

Nick McGowan 06:09
that will actually affect your confidence. And if you’re able to move through life with confidence based on healing and doing the work to be able to heal things that have shaped the way that you look at really life now, you will have more confidence. And therefore, I believe you’ll have more certainty. If you have questions, if you want me to dive deeper into this or you wanna understand how do I actually gain confidence in my life? How do I gain certainty in my life? And how do I see the differences in those? I’d love to be able to help you out.

Nick McGowan 06:39
Please reach out to me. Thank you, and I appreciate your time.

Thanks for listening to today’s episode. What did you think? I’d love to hear your thoughts. If you enjoyed the episode, please jump over to Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you consume podcasts and subscribe, rate, and leave a five-star review. It’s very much appreciated and also helps other people find the show and experience healing just like us. Please also head over to our website, The Mindset and Self Mastery Show.

Nick McGowan 07:14
where you can check out all of our episodes and find additional resources to help you manage your mindset as you seek self-mastery. So with that, thank you and remember, your mindset matters and so do you.