How to Sell Advice

In this episode, Jordan and I talk about his transition from freelancer to strategist, how he found his niche working with Amish farmers, and more.

• Transitioning from freelancer to strategist (and the steps he took in between)
• How he repositioned himself to sell more strategic offerings
• Exploring alternative niches before stumbling into a new niche—Amish farmers!
• How a "Golden Goose" relationship led to three clients (and counting)
• The benefits of aligning your personal identity with the niche you serve
• Using a performance-based compensation model with a fixed base and % of revenue
• How Jordan manages scope and delivers his engagements
• The benefits of a retainer-based model vs. only project work
• How Jordan plans to find more clients when his target market isn't online
• Mindset shifts around mass vs. small audience marketing (resonance)

Key Links and Resources

Jordan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordanmogck/
Jordan’s website: https://nicenewsletter.com/
Jordan on X: https://x.com/Jamogck

00:00 Intro 
09:09 Finding Your Niche 
6:52 Marketing Amish Farms 
24:09 Retainer Clients 
27:47 Marketing Strategies 
35:32 Mindset Shifts 
47:29 Follow Jordan

I recently interviewed Reza Saeedi—a marketing strategist and former Director of Marketing at On Deck—about his transition from employee to marketing advisor to employee again with advising as a side venture. 

In this episode, we chatted about things like:

• How Reza got into marketing and eventually, as a mentor/advisor to entrepreneurs 
• How he was able to get one fractional CMO and two advisory clients quickly after leaving his job at On Deck
• The role of casual networking and how it led to unexpected opportunities down the line
• The difference between being specific and niching down in business based on your strengths and interests
• The role of risk-reversing guarantees and discussing prices against value during sales conversations 
• Why turning away poor-fit clients helped with his overall confidence and contributed to his early success
• How to internally handle the fact we can’t guarantee successful outcomes 
• The value of factoring in word of mouth and referrals into your marketing plan
• The intersection and overlap between teaching and advisory work 
• How Reza plans to do part-time advising in a low-labour, sustainable way 
• How Reza stays productize and organized in his work
• The importance of exercise, habits, and mental health optimization

Plus many fun tangents along the way!

Whether you currently have a job and are thinking about advising full or part-time, or you’re already independent but looking to get into advisory work, this episode will have a ton of insights to offer you.

Key links and mentioned resources:

• Reza on LinkedIn
• Reza's personal site
• Reza on X.com
• Passage.com
• Episode 200: Kevan Lee on part-time advisory work, mentorship, equity compensation, and more
• The Win Without Pitching Manifesto (Book)
• Meditations by Marcus Aurelius 
• 4,000 Weeks by Robert Bosman
• Readwise App
  
  

So, you want to publish content to attract clients.

Do you start a blog? Hammer out posts on LinkedIn every day? Start a YouTube channel? A podcast?

Good question. I get asked it a lot. 

In fact, someone in Mindshare asked me about it again today, so I thought I'd break out my mental model for how I think about publishing and distributing content.

Here is a visual breakdown to look at while you listen to the latest How to Sell Advice podcast episode:

I recently had the privilege of interviewing Brad Hussey—a former web designer turned creator, educator, and community builder.

In this episode, we talk about things like:

• How he made the leap from employee to full-time web designer
• How he successfully sells web design courses on platforms like Udemy, Awwwards, Teachable, and other places
• How these courses lead to people hiring him for web design services, training, coaching and even requesting more courses—creating a flywheel for his business
• How he leveraged his expertise into a partnership with Wix, where he hosts and maintains the Creative Crew Community
• How his partnership with Wix is structured and run in terms of compensation and accountabilities
• A breakdown of his revenue streams, including services, community, courses, sponsorships, ad revenue, and affiliates
• His thoughts on publishing his courses on his own website and on learning platforms for a double benefit
• How he built and monetized two YouTube channels with tens of thousands of followers across both channels
• His advice on how to grow a YouTube channel—and how it benefits his business
• And a lot more!

Resources & Links Mentioned

• Brad's Website
• Creative Crew Community
• Brad's audio/video equipment
• Kevin's audio/video equipment
• BeCreatives - Unlimited Video Subscription Agency
• Video Huskey
• $100 Startup by Chris Guillebeau 
• The Almanac of Raval Ravikant by Eric Jorgenson 

Listen here or subscribe via your podcast player.

—kevin

P.S. Like this episode? Share it with another marketer and help them build a more leveraged and profitable marketing practice, too!

The other week, I chatted with former software consultant turned CRM SaaS owner, Reuben Swartz about how to do sales in a way that doesn't feel like selling and instead sets up your relationships for success.

In this episode, we chat about things like:

• Why traditional sales processes don't work
• How he helps people win clients without being sales-y
• How having a clear target market helps your sales success
• Reframing "sales" as "educating" and "networking" as "connecting"
• Why having a strong marketing engine allows you to be better at sales
• A mental model for generating more referrals
• Should you give gifts and thank-you notes to people who refer business to you?
• Easy ways to maintain contact with people in your network

And a lot more!

If selling isn't your jam—or even if it is—you'll get a ton of value out of this episode. 

The mindsets and mental models he shares make it easy to navigate sales conversations without getting mired in tactical "steps" which can often confuse you and put a barrier between you and your prospects.

Resources mentioned:

• The Go-Giver by Bob Berg
• Alchemy by Rory Sutherland 
• Mimiran: The fun, antiCRM
• Reuben on LinkedIn

Thanks for listening, and if you enjoy the show, please share it with a friend!

—kw

Do you have a proprietary framework or methodology you can build an entire business around?

I recently recorded a podcast with Billy Broas, a copywriter, advisor, and educator who has built a business around his proprietary messaging framework, The Five Lightbulbs. 

In this episode, Billy and I unpack the Five Lightbulbs and then go deep into how his business works, how he gets clients, and a lot more.

We discuss things like:

• Why having a proprietary framework like the Five Lightbulbs is key to selling advice
• How he leveraged his IP into courses, books, and other more leveraged ways 
• How he evolved his business from doing to advising and now teaching 
• Selling custom services with some productization on the back end
• Why he focuses on the evergreen fundamentals of marketing and not just the “new thing”
• How products get better by empathizing with and better understanding the customer
• Why we should systemize and codify our expertise that outlives you
• How teaching other audiences—i.e. industry software companies—leads to more business (Golden Goose Strategy)
• How teaching courses and programs can lead to consulting engagements with students
• How writing simple emails on a single topic under your own name works well as a format for email newsletters
• How to fold the Five Lightbulbs framework into your emails and other marketing materials

Find Billy Online:

• Billy’s Website
• Billy’s Twitter

Books Mentioned:

• Selling the Invisible by Harry Beckwith
• Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene Schwartz
• Authors like:
  • Gary Halbert
  • Victor Schwabb
  • Joe Sugarman
  • Claude Hopkins

I recently decided to rebrand the Mindshare franchise (can I call it that?).

Listen in for all the details!

—kw

Do you focus much on optimizing your website for search engines? 

Personally, I don’t really do much beyond the basic best practices. My strategy has been more focused on email, social media, and Golden Goose tactics to build awareness for what I do.

But a part of me feels like I’m missing out—especially as I begin to sell knowledge products to a large potential audience.

That’s why I wanted to talk to Tsavo Neal about how he approaches his marketing and business model. Tsavo gets almost all of his clients and customers through search engine optimization. 

It just so happens, he teaches other consultants how to do the same. Which made this episode packed with value.

In this episode of Mindshare Radio, Tsavo and I unpack:

• How he decided to niche down on helping consultants attract clients through their website
• A breakdown of his business model comprised of do-it-yourself and done-with-you offerings
• How raised the price of his course from $197 to $497 without losing deterring new customers
• His thoughts on evergreen vs. launch-based (open vs. closed-cart) access to his course
• How he sells $5-6k in digital products each month relying almost exclusively on SEO
• A walkthrough of his done-with-you SEO service and how he designed the program
• A deep-dive walkthrough of his SEO process, including research, outlining, writing, editing, publishing, and distribution
• How he chooses keywords to write articles for based on competitiveness and difficulty
• How he’s applying these same skills and techniques to rank and monetize a website in the Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu niche 
• And a lot more!

If you've ever thought you might want to get your website ranking better for search engines, get your pencil ready because this episode will show you how.

Mentioned links and resources:

• Phillip Morgan
• Consulting Success
• Ahrefs.com
• TsavoNeal.com
• BJJEquipment.com

—k

P.S. Want a deeper-dive training on how to do exactly this process? Tsavo shared an over-the-shoulder view for Mindshare members last month on how he does it. Sign up to get access to that plus a library of other training, group coaching, a private Slack community and more. Learn more about Mindshare → 

A few weeks ago, I invited Mindshare member and long-time marketing consultant, Mark Evans, to talk shop with me about the business of marketing consulting and fractional CMO work.

This was a really fun episode. We went deep into the nerdy nuances of fractional/interim CMO and advisory work.

Some topics we explored include:

• Mark’s transition from reporter to marketing consultant
• How he uses his training as a reporter to do positioning and messaging work
• The challenges and frustrations of fractional CMO work
• Why a strategic advisory work is his preferred way to engage with clients
• His thoughts on coaching, mentoring, and training in-house marketers
• The value proposition of interim CMO vs. fractional CMO
• Pricing and value calculations for advisors vs. fCMOs
• Refund policies and minimum commitment periods
• Setting expectations and getting clear on goals before starting engagements
• How and when to turn down clients who aren’t a fit
• The importance of continually marketing yourself
• Using video, podcasts, and showing up in person to build trust 

Books mentioned:

• The Inside Advantage by Robert Bloom and Dave Conti
• Don’t Make Me Think by Steve Krug
• Rocket Surgery Made Easy by Steve Krug

Connect with Mark:

• Marketing Spark (consulting website)
• Twitter

The other day, I replied to a Twitter friend's (@RodBurkert) open question:

I replied with the following:

But then I wanted to expand on this idea further since it's core to everything I teach.

That's what this episode is about: how to take your expertise out of your head so you can deploy it without having to repeat yourself forever.

Listen in and let me know what you think.

—k