Humans in the Loop

Scott Aaronson is a Computer Scientist, Complexity Theorist and leading authority on Quantum Computing.

As he says himself, he's spent twenty years trying to dispel some of the commonly held myths about it.

As a non-scientist, I've spent some time trying to wrap my head around quantum mechanics and it still blows my mind everytime I try to think about it. This conversation was as close as I've ever been to properly understanding it.

Key topics

Quantum mechanics and probability

Quantum superposition and interference

Building reliable quantum hardware

Quantum algorithms like Shor's and Grover's

Cryptography and post-quantum security

Quantum error correction and scalability

Implications for AI and societal risks

Where you can watch/listen

Youtube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@HumansintheLoopPod

Apple podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humans-in-the-loop/id1831285114⁠

Spotify⁠⁠⁠ - ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4BbslJR0KA5bfqrcYRhJER?si=b5a46211098b4f3e⁠

Or wherever you get your podcasts!

Get in touch

Instagram⁠⁠⁠ - ⁠https://www.instagram.com/humansinthelooppod/⁠

Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠

Website: ⁠https://www.theuncommonfounder.com

Sir Dieter Helm is the UK's leading energy economist and Professor of Economic Policy at the University of Oxford.

He is also the first Knight of the Realm on Humans in the Loop.

As a proud Brit and European, I care deeply about British and European prosperity. Technology is not the only driver of that, but it is an important one. And given the geopolitical state of the world, there is going to be more and more importance placed on sovereignty i.e. our ability to stand on our own two feet.

I often run into this argument that one of the major blockers to sovereign British technology is the high cost of British energy, so I brought Dieter on to talk about British energy and what a more sovereign technological future might look like.

Dieter's book - Climate Realism: Facing the Facts about Energy is out on October 8th: https://dieterhelm.co.uk/books/climate-realism/

Key topics

UK deindustrialization and its impact on emissions

Intermittent renewable energy and system costs

Cost structure of industrial energy in the UK

Global competitiveness and energy prices

The role of nuclear and firm power

Sovereignty and energy independence post-Brexit

Global energy resources and geopolitical risks

Technological innovation in energy and AI

Where you can watch/listen

Youtube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@HumansintheLoopPod

Apple podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humans-in-the-loop/id1831285114⁠

Spotify⁠⁠⁠ - ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4BbslJR0KA5bfqrcYRhJER?si=b5a46211098b4f3e⁠Or wherever you get your podcasts!

Get in touch

Instagram⁠⁠⁠ - ⁠https://www.instagram.com/humansinthelooppod/⁠

Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠

Website: ⁠https://www.theuncommonfounder.com

Where to find Sir Dieter

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dieter-helm-3077b214b/

Website: https://dieterhelm.co.uk/

Claire Stapleton spent 12 years at Google from 2007 - 2019. She joined as a fresh grad at a time of peak optimism and idealism in Silicon Valley, and soon became somewhat of a 'Bard' - responsible for shaping the story and sharing the folklore around Google with employees and later the outside world.

In 2018, feeling increasingly disillusioned with what Google had become, Claire was one of the organizers of a 20k employee walkout in protest against the company's handling of sexual harassment allegations against certain senior executives - one of whom, Andy Rubin, had allegations against him deemed credible by an internal investigation - yet walked away with a warm handshake and $90m exit package.

Claire and the other women who organised faced a backlash from Google with their roles and responsibilities being diminished in the aftermath.

Claire eventually left in 2019, and her memoir, 'Don't Be Evil' has recently been released and is available at any good bookshop near you: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/04/books/review/dont-be-evil-claire-stapleton.html

Claire's own journey maps to a time in which internal and public sentiment towards big tech in general has shifted so we sat down to talk not just about her own experience at Google, but also the wider vibe shift in the industry as a whole.

Key topics

• The early idealistic days of Google
• Claire's role as 'The Bard' - telling the internal folklore of Google to its employees and the outside world
• Google's Me Too moment - her role as organizer of 20k employee walkout
• The backlash that she and other women at Google faced as a consequence
• The vibe shift from idealism to corporate ruthlessness
• When she stopped believing the story she was telling
• Her experiences of parenting and grief and how that shaped how she felt about her work

Where you can watch/listen

Youtube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@HumansintheLoopPod

Apple podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humans-in-the-loop/id1831285114⁠

Spotify⁠⁠⁠ - ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4BbslJR0KA5bfqrcYRhJER?si=b5a46211098b4f3e⁠Or wherever you get your podcasts!

Get in touch

Instagram⁠⁠⁠ - ⁠https://www.instagram.com/humansinthelooppod/⁠

Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠

Website: ⁠https://www.theuncommonfounder.com

Where to find Claire

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/claire-stapleton-868a935/

Substack: ⁠https://techsupport.substack.com/

X: https://x.com/clairewaves?s=20

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/clairewaves

Benedict Evans is a tech analyst and former partner at A16z.

His newsletter with rational takes on tech goes out to over 175k people.

In amongst the noise around AI and the tech industry more broadly, Benedict has built a reputation for high quality, level headed analysis.

I sat down with Benedict to discuss topics such as:

• The current state of technology and ongoing platform shifts
• Whether this time is truly different or not
• Historical comparisons of technological revolutions
• Challenges in predicting AI's future trajectory
• Silicon Valley’s naivety about the world
• The cultural and philosophical aspects of AI and art
• The importance of understanding complex systems and markets

Where else you can listen

Youtube⁠⁠⁠⁠ - https://www.youtube.com/@HumansintheLoopPod

⁠⁠Apple podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠ - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humans-in-the-loop/id1831285114

Spotify⁠⁠ - https://open.spotify.com/show/4BbslJR0KA5bfqrcYRhJER?si=b5a46211098b4f3e

Or wherever you get your podcasts!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Benedict Evans' perspective on tech noise

03:33 E-commerce growth and retail media expansion

07:05 Historical scale of technological change and exponential growth

10:33 The unpredictability of technological evolution

14:08 The difference between automating tasks and jobs

17:24 The limitations of AI in creating authentic art

18:13 The organizational and deployment challenges of AI

20:39 The emergence of new pathways and the unpredictability of AI evolution

22:20 Historical perspectives on internet and mobile adoption

23:37 The importance of questions and uncertainty in analysis

25:01 The impact of the internet on industries and productivity

26:29 The exponential nature of technological progress

28:23 Organizational inertia and the difficulty of change

30:04 The complexity of automating jobs versus tasks

32:38 The role of models in understanding human work and creativity

36:26 The potential of AI as a pattern matcher and logic system

39:23 The philosophical limits of AI and human judgment

41:24 Cultural perceptions of art, authenticity, and AI

44:52 The enduring human element and cultural value in art

45:46 The future of AI and human creativity

48:47 The broader implications of AI as a platform for a new economy

50:15 Historical context of technological revolutions and their long timelines

52:24 Philosophical debates on existence, value, and AI

54:07 Benedict Evans' perspective on Silicon Valley and tech optimism

55:35 The influence of politics and regulation on AI development

56:49 The mindset needed for startup innovation and large-scale change

57:20 Benedict Evans' optimism about the future and long-term progress

58:47 Reflections on historical hardships and the progress of humanity

01:00:51 The long arc of human history and technological progress

Get in touch

Instagram⁠⁠⁠ - https://www.instagram.com/humansinthelooppod/

Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠

Website: ⁠https://www.theuncommonfounder.com

Where to find Benedict

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benedictevans/

Newsletter: https://www.ben-evans.com/newsletter

Website: https://www.ben-evans.com

Few people understand language quite like today's guest. Emily M. Bender is a Professor of Computational Linguistics at the University of Washington.

She's also the person who coined the term 'Stochastic Parrots' in the now infamous paper that saw Google fire its Ethical AI lead; and the co-author of The AI Con, a book which is unflinching in its criticism of both AI boosterism and doomerism (in fact she objects to the term AI).

I sat down with Emily to discuss topics such as:

• How language really works
• What LLMs are actually doing
• What Stochastic Parrots really means
• Why doomers and boosters are two sides of the same, misleading coin

Where else you can listen

⁠⁠⁠Youtube⁠⁠⁠ - https://www.youtube.com/@HumansintheLoopPod

⁠Apple podcasts⁠⁠⁠ - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humans-in-the-loop/id1831285114

⁠Spotify⁠ - https://open.spotify.com/show/4BbslJR0KA5bfqrcYRhJER?si=b5a46211098b4f3e

Or wherever you get your podcasts!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to AI and Linguistics

02:54 Understanding Computational Linguistics

05:47 The Stochastic Parrots Paper

08:32 The Implications of AI Terminology

10:57 Skepticism Towards AI Claims

12:58 The Illusion of Intelligence in AI

15:55 The Dangers of AI in Professional Settings

18:33 Democratization and Distrust in AI Development

28:02 Doomers vs. Boosters: The AI Narrative

32:57 Skepticism in AI: A Personal Journey

36:30 The Rapid Evolution of AI: Are We Outdated?

40:13 The Role of Software Engineering in AI

48:14 Automation vs. Human Expertise: A Balancing Act

53:02 Geopolitical Narratives: The AI Arms Race

56:33 The Future of AI: Regulation and Ethical Use

57:44 Pride in Expertise: Understanding Our Value

Get in touch

⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ - https://www.instagram.com/humansinthelooppod/

Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠

Website: ⁠https://www.theuncommonfounder.com

I sat down with Paul Kedrosky - investor, researcher and one of the smartest voices out there on the economics of AI and the risks of a bubble.

Here are a few of the questions we talked about:

• What is a bubble?
• Is AI a bubble?
• How does it compare to past bubbles?
• What would cause the bubble to burst?
• Why should the average person care?
• Will we see a bull market in laser tag in all the abandoned data centres?
• What needs to be true for AI to NOT be a bubble?

More info about Paul

Paul Kedrosky is an investor, writer, and researcher. He has been a regular on-air contributor at CNBC and Bloomberg, and has written for the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and publications around the world.

Paul started as an engineer, became a quota-carrying salesperson, then a technology equity analyst on Wall Street, and eventually a venture capitalist. He has started companies, held academic positions in the U.S. and Canada, has a popular newsletter, and is a research fellow at MIT's Institute for the Digital Economy. His Ph.D. research focused on risk, adoption, and path dependence in finance and technology.

Where else you can listen

⁠⁠Youtube⁠⁠ - https://www.youtube.com/@HumansintheLoopPod

Apple podcasts⁠⁠ - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humans-in-the-loop/id1831285114

Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4BbslJR0KA5bfqrcYRhJER?si=b5a46211098b4f3e

Or wherever you get your podcasts!

Chapters

00:00 The AI Bubble Debate

06:44 Understanding Bubbles and Their Characteristics

12:04 Historical Context: Railroads and AI

17:51 The Call Option on AI's Future

19:29 The Necessity of Bubbles for Progress

25:31 Consequences of Stranded Assets

26:51 The Dilemma of Data Centers

28:46 The AI Bubble Dynamics

31:20 The Impact of Economic Bubbles on Society

34:06 The Interconnectedness of Global Financial Systems

36:17 Public Sentiment Towards AI and Job Security

38:18 The Fallacy of Technological Inevitability

40:20 Regulatory Challenges in a Globalized Economy

42:50 Predicting the Burst of the AI Bubble

45:37 Market Sentiment and AI Valuations

49:21 The Token Economy and Its Implications

52:28 Possibilities of Change in the Current Landscape

54:57 The Future of Work and Economic Stability

Links

https://paulkedrosky.com/

Get in touch

⁠Instagram⁠ - https://www.instagram.com/humansinthelooppod/

Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠

Website: ⁠https://www.theuncommonfounder.com

How do ideas, however crazy they might seem, spread?

Who's a true believer vs. a grifter following the money?

Can you talk about Epstein and QAnon without losing your rational mind?

How can investigative journalism move with the times?

These are just some of the questions I sat down to discuss with award-winning journalist and author James R Ball.

He has worked as the global editor of TBIJ, a special correspondent at BuzzFeed UK and special projects editor at The Guardian, where he played a key role in the Pulitzer Prize-winning coverage of the NSA leaks by Edward Snowden, as well as the offshore leaks, HSBC Files, Reading the Riots and Keep it in the Ground projects. At WikiLeaks he was closely involved in Cablegate – the publication of 250,000 classified US embassy cables in 2010 – as well as working on two documentaries based on the Iraq War Logs.

James is the author of multiple books, including Post-Truth: How Bullshit Conquered The World and The Tangled Web We Weave: Inside The Shadow System That Shapes the Internet. His most recent book, The Other Pandemic: How Qanon Contaminated The World, was published by Bloomsbury in July 2023.

Where else you can listen

⁠Youtube⁠

⁠Apple podcasts⁠

Or wherever you get your podcasts!

Chapters

00:00 The Evolution of Information Sharing

08:41 Understanding QAnon: Origins and Impact

28:37 The Social Dynamics of Conspiracy Theories

29:34 Navigating Adolescence and Online Radicalization

34:20 The Manosphere and Young Men's Perspectives

37:01 Moral Panics and Information Overload

40:04 The Epstein Connection and Conspiracy Theories

52:37 The Future of Information in the Digital Age

Links

https://bsky.app/profile/jamesrball.com

https://www.jamesrball.com/about

Get in touch

Instagram

Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠

Website: ⁠https://www.theuncommonfounder.com

Many of us have a sense that even well-meaning companies and institutions lose their way, sometimes becoming downright evil.Eric Ries is a legend when it comes to building tech companies and his new book is written from the perspective of someone whose been 'on the frontlines in the battle for the soul of our economy'.Incorruptible is a new blueprint for companies that will prosper and endure without losing their soul. Now more than ever we need great organisations, institutions and companies. Things that bring us together, not that tear us apart. That we can trust in to put shared human interests and values at the heart of what they do.If you're going to listen to one Humans in the Loop episode, make it this one.

Buy the book now.

Where else you can listen

Youtube

Apple podcastsOr wherever you get your podcasts!

Chapters

00:00 The Core Thesis of 'Incorruptible'

02:52 The Urgency of the Moment

07:13 Understanding Financial Gravity

12:21 The Concept of Shareholder Primacy

17:54 The Misconception of Capitalism

23:13 Examples of Resilient Companies

26:59 The Value of Innovative Corporate Structures

28:59 AI Governance and Corporate Responsibility

30:35 The Role of Governance in AI Companies

32:50 Integrity and Mission in Corporate Governance

35:45 The Importance of Principles in Business Decisions

38:30 The Role of Integrity in Governance

40:49 The Consequences of Corporate Mission Statements

43:28 Balancing Lean Startup Principles with Governance

46:35 The Right Time for Founders to Implement Governance

49:23 An Optimistic Vision for the Future of BusinessLinks

https://www.linkedin.com/in/eries/

https://x.com/ericries

https://www.instagram.com/ericriesactual/

https://www.tiktok.com/@ericriesactual

https://news.theleanstartup.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@theericriesshow

Get in touch

Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/humansinthelooppod⁠

Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠

Website: ⁠https://www.theuncommonfounder.com

How to lift an entire country out of poverty?

Does philanthropy make a difference?

What if wealthy tech founders gave away their money?

Will AI make poor countries even poorer?

How does technology help a country to develop?

Those are some of the questions discussed into today's episode of Humans in the Loop featuring Nick Allardice, CEO of GiveDirectly, a non-profit that's sent over $1 billion in cash, directly to those living in poverty.

Where else you can watch/listenYoutube - youtube.com/channel/UC1KEYtwPKr5yUv86f7YDB7g/Apple podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humans-in-the-loop/id1831285114Or wherever you get your podcasts!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to GiveDirectly and Philanthropy

02:35 Identifying Communities in Need

06:18 Technology and Cash Transfers

12:10 Empowering Recipients: No Strings Attached

17:45 Community Impact and Economic Growth

23:46 Limitations of Cash Transfers

27:15 Conclusion and Future of Philanthropy

27:33 Skepticism of Central Planning in Local Economies

28:40 The Ineffectiveness of Traditional Teaching Methods

30:38 The Role of Wealthy Individuals in Alleviating Poverty

32:52 The Potential of Cash Transfers to Lift Living Standards

35:37 The Importance of Urgency in Philanthropy

39:26 The Impact of AI on Job Markets in Developing Countries

42:46 Balancing Optimism and Fear in the Age of AI

47:49 Innovative Approaches to Education and Healthcare

50:06 Leveraging AI for Disaster Preparedness

54:05 A Call to Action for the Wealthy to Invest in ChangeLinksGiveDirectly

The experiment in Malawi

Rutger Bregman's call for the world's billionaires to pick up the phone to NickGet in touch

Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/humansinthelooppod⁠

Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠

Website: ⁠https://www.theuncommonfounder.com

China is shaping the world.In direct ways, like innovation, foreign policy, investment.And indirectly, by provoking a response from countries such as the US who see it as a competitor.China's transformation into one of the world's superpowers is the most remarkable transformation of a single country in the history of the world.And yet it's still poorly understood (including by me).Selina Xu is a writer, researcher and AI & China policy lead in the office of former Google CEO, Eric Schmidt and is here to shed light on China and its technology industry, dispelling some myths along the way.Where else you can listen:

Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4BbslJR0KA5bfqrcYRhJER?si=d0edc1049eac4f39

Apple podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humans-in-the-loop/id1831285114Or wherever you get your podcasts!

Chapters

00:00 The Evolution of China's Tech Industry

03:38 Debunking the Copycat Narrative

06:16 The Role of the State in Innovation

09:51 Xi Jinping's Vision for Technology

12:44 The Return of Jack Ma

15:35 China's Perspective on Global Competition

19:28 Defining Winning in the Superpower Race

22:40 China's Unique Approach to Technology Deployment

26:50 The Role of the State in AI Development

30:03 DeepSeek and the Evolution of Chinese AI

34:19 Agentic AI: Trends and Trajectories

36:57 Emerging Frontiers in AI Research

40:12 Infrastructure and Support for Tech Industries

43:44 Geopolitical Implications of Taiwan and Semiconductors

46:03 Cultural Perspectives on China and Tech

48:53 Optimistic Visions for the Future of AILinks:

Selina's website

China's AI+ initiative

Involution

Suspension of ANT's IPO

Common prosperity

Deepseek moment

Chin AI substack - Jeffrey Ding

Get in touch

Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/humansinthelooppod⁠

Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠

Website: ⁠https://www.theuncommonfounder.com