In this episode, Dhru interviews Peter Hurley, who shares his unconventional journey from studying human physiology and selling sailboats to becoming a highly successful headshot photographer. Starting with his unpredictable path to picking up a camera, Hurley's initial struggles in modeling and acting eventually led him to focus on photography. Driven by a desire to make a good living and pursue his passion, he overcame challenges and established himself as a sought-after headshot photographer, emphasizing the importance of taking risks and exploring new paths for a fulfilling career.
Peter shares insights from this wealth of experience in the headshot photography industry including the significance of a strong work ethic, personal growth, and collaboration within the community. He stresses the value of education and learning the basics before developing a unique style. Additionally, the interview touches on the influence of mentors, childhood experiences, and the impact of travel on personal growth. Throughout the episode, there's a recurring theme of embracing opportunities, taking risks, and prioritizing personal growth to achieve greater success and fulfillment in one's career and life.
About Peter Hurley
Peter Hurley is a New York and Los Angeles based portrait photographer who is regarded as the industry leader in headshot photography. He’s best known for the genuine expressions he captures for his executive business portraits and actor headshots.
With a wealth of diverse experiences, Peter Hurley has navigated life’s twists and turns with purpose and passion. From sailing the seven seas in preparation for the 1996 and 2000 Olympic Games to gracing the camera lens as a model for Polo Sport and Abercrombie & Fitch, Peter’s journey has been nothing short of remarkable. His peers recognize him as the foremost authority on headshot photography, a reputation solidified by his acclaimed book, The Headshot.
With over two decades of experience, Peter seamlessly transitioned into the role of a director. His passion for excellence shines in every project, producing compelling videos that showcase his clients’ businesses at their best. Rooted in New York City, Peter finds inspiration in his beautiful wife and cherished twin daughters, driving his ongoing pursuit of creativity and excellence.
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Contact Dhru Beeharilal | Nayan Leadership:
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Contact Peter Hurley | Peter Hurley:
- Website: Peter Hurley
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- Facebook: PeterHurleyPhoto
- Linkedin: PeterHurley
- YouTube: PeterHurleyPhotography
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Transcript:
Dhru 00:00
Hey everybody, this is Dr. Dhru Bee. And I'm here to welcome you to my podcast, Ikigai Leadership. We're gonna be talking to leaders in all different industries from all different backgrounds and demographics from all over the world. And we'll be discussing topics like leadership development, culture, DEI, content creation and marketing, and all things business and entrepreneurship.
Dhru 00:26
All right, welcome, everybody. Welcome back to another edition of IIkigai Leadership. I'm here in a special place, here. This is not my normal spot. As usual. I'm sure you guys have known by now. I'm here with the amazing Peter Hurley. Thanks so much, Peter, for taking the time to talk today, man.
Peter 00:42
Oh my gosh, Drew, I'm so psyched you came in. This is awesome. I need, I wanted you to see the studio and hang out with you. But this is cool that we got to do this.
Dhru 00:48
The studio is awesome. It's actually, the location is phenomenal. But this this actually is setup. I mean, I'm I'm blown away by how amazing this for folks. I mean, I brought my photographer and Peter already has everything set up here, which is pretty cool. So I can take advantage this amazing space. Super cool.
Peter 01:03
So no, I was excited. Because I knew when you asked me to do this, and you were gonna come up, I was like, I'll be ready. I'm gonna have this place rockin and rollin by then.
Dhru 01:11
It's awesome to have you on here. And a lot of folks who are watching us will not really know you, have an idea of your background in that kind of thing. But who is Peter, would you start by going to what what made you pick up pick up a camera? I mean, we talked about this a little bit. You told us a story back in Denver, but I mean, folks who weren't there, obviously.
Peter 01:28
Sure. My name is Peter Hurley. I was born in New Jersey. The path for me to grab a camera was pretty random. I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I went to BU and I was studying like human physiology. And I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. When I graduated. I graduate and I sailed for the summer. As I always did. I raced sailboats all my life. And I just I was really into it. I grew up on the Jersey Shore in a small town called Mantaloking. That summer, I was selling sailboats at a local sailors' shop. And one of my friends owned him was my boss and kind of beat me up and taught me a lot about marketing and stuff like that. Actually. It was amazing. Actually looking back then at this guy, he was he was nuts. But he did things outside the box. Nowadays, but..
Dhru 02:10
What year was I'm just curious.
Peter 02:13
This was no, it was 1993.
Dhru 02:18
Okay, yes, so marketing was totally different back then, compared to now.
Peter 02:21
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I was 23. You can do the math. Anyway, I asked for a couple days off to seal on this national championship. And he gave it to me. And I was like, okay, so I won. And then when I won that fall, I didn't know what I was going to do, because it was a summer job. And I was like, I'm gonna start training for the Olympics, because the boat that I had sailed mostly, predominantly had gone to be an Olympic class. And I was at the stage of my life where I was like, I didn't know what I was going to do with my degree. And I didn't know what to do. Anyway, long story short, I ended up sailing for a couple years. And somebody saw me sailing, well, Caggie Simaneli Bradfor saw me sailing, and she's like, you could model and I was like, I don't know about that. She goes, Yeah, I'm gonna get a photographer. She got a start. And then she goes, and I'm gonna send your pictures over to Ralph Lauren. And they really liked you. And you're gonna go down to Miami and get in front of Bruce Weber's camera, and you're and then you're gonna have a huge modeling career, blah, blah, blah. But no, it wasn't that huge, but it was fun. But Bruce told me to pick up a camera. I became friends with Bruce. I was in Miami and I said, Hey, are you free this day I'm racing? Why don't you come shoot this race. And he came and he put it in Italian Vogue. And it was just cool. If that time of my life I was really, it was crazy.
Dhru 03:34
That’s the point. You're shooting and you’re modelling both at this time. Or just shooting?
Peter 03:28
No, I was just modeling and sailing. I wasn't even modeling yet. I was just mod, I had modeled and I was sailing. And then I missed the US team in 96. And I came to New York and I decided to try the modeling thing. It was not easy. I'm not that good looking. Like it's just like it wasn't that easy. And it was hard. But I got some jobs and I plugged away. And I had the support of some diverse, one being Bruce Weber. And he said he's I don't know why he encouraged me to pick up a camera but he said well, what are you doing? Just pick up a camera and go walk around and take pictures on the street? So I did. That was it. I was like alright, I kind of liked this. This is cool.
Dhru 04:20
You're the headshot guy. Like everyone knows Peter Hurley is the expert in headshots like far and away right? What was that moment where you were like headshots. It's a thing for me. I just I love doing that Justin that's what I'm gonna specialize in or, or was there a moment like that?
Peter 04:31
Yeah, I mean, it was a monetary thing I was trying to be with you know, I told her so I remember telling him I want to shoot like you I want to do like, like shots for of actors for Vanity Fair. And I want to shoot ad campaigns. I want to do this, that, and the other thing. And I was like, Well, I needed an agent. I needed to get commercial work. I needed all that stuff. And I was an actor. So while I actually picked up the camera to get out of a bar, I was bartending and I hated it. And in New York it was like till 4am. So I was getting out of the bar at four, and barely sleeping, I was falling asleep on modeling jobs, I had started acting, and I was like, Maybe this acting thing can take off because this modeling thing isn't gonna last. Let me try this acting thing, but let me figure out how to pay for it. So I was like, let me take some pictures. So I’d done actor's headshots, and I was like, this didn't look like a bad gig. And these photographers were making a good living. And I was like, if I could get anywhere close to what they're charging, I'd be alright. So I started and I'd go to acting class, just to try and get the actors to pay me to take the pictures and like I would do it like that. Yeah, sorry, guys running around doing that. I was like, I don't have to go to a bar anymore. And then I was like, Oh, my gosh, I suck at acting too. Like, I should quit that. And then here I am.
Dhru 05:43
Let's see, I think I just want to highlight something about that, though. Like one of the things I tell people a lot of times is that there's not always a direct line to what you want to do necessarily, right. Life is all about the zigzag, right? It's like moving around. And then if you didn't want to get out of bartending, you might not have picked up a camera ever. Right?
Peter 06:03
Yeah, exactly.
Dhru 06:05
Which seems like random at the moment. But I mean, set the tone for rest of your life, which is crazy.
Peter 06:09
If I was gonna say like, one of my biggest things in my life that I've noticed, is like, if you throw me a bone, I'm gonna pick it up. And I'm like, I'm like, oh, there's a bone over there. I'm gonna go for that one now. And then I'm gonna go for that one. I was never locked into a path. I never did a nine to five ever in my life. I never did. And I don't think I could do a nine to five, I wouldn't know what to do with myself.
Dhru 06:29
And most people don't, frankly, I mean, like, I don't think human beings are meant to do a nine to five, we're not built for that, right? I mean, all these studies are coming out now. Whether it's back problems, health problems in general, whatever, like, you know, attention deficit disorder, or whatever, ADHD, all these things are coming out where it's like, 9 to 5 is actually really bad for us as humans, right? Like, just in terms of, I mean, just physiologically speaking, if nothing else, right, sitting in a cubicle, for eight hours, eight plus hours, cuz some people sit for longer, right? They're just there is really bad for everything about us, right? Because we're built to go hunt, and go find food and go, you know, find our next conquest, whatever that might be, right? Whether it's food, whether it's, you know, a new village or whatever a place to live. And we're sitting here just crunching numbers on the computer or like, you know, whatever typing up or sitting in meetings. It's like, the worst form of who we can be as humans. You know what I mean? And I think that the creative aspect that the part leading to that, like you did, is really powerful with what lights up you know, people's I do because I watched you work. You light up behind the camera. Yeah, like a dimmed otherwise. But I mean, when you get the camera, you're like, get a different person. I mean, in a good way.
Peter 07:33
I love it. Yeah, I love it. You love it? Don't you need to get that person in there, and you just drill them, get them going and get him fired up? Like, I'm glad I don't have that experience. And the pressure was there to go get the real job, you know, especially being a photographer, I don't know, may artists are out there have probably gone through this with the parental pressure society pressures, like there's so many guys and women that I coach that say, Hey, I was a yearbook photographer in high school. And then I went out and got the real job. And I did it for 20 years. And now I'm ready, I'm ready to get out. I'm sick of this stuff. And I really want to pick up my camera and start shooting again. Then they come and get coached by me. And I'm like, Wow, that's amazing. That's so I mean, it's wild. It's to think that the our career choices were chosen. And we're kind of stuck in this rut, and I don't think it's happening anymore. I think that now, I think that the kids, I mean, I have twins that are 20. I don't know what they're gonna, they're trying to figure it out. But I don't think that the parental pressure, I mean, I'm not giving them parental pressure to go get a quote-unquote, real job. I think COVID actually helped in a way where people don't expect you to be in the office all the time. You can, you can work from home, you don't have to be nine to five on the clock anymore. And most companies eight, get your work done, do what I need you to do, rock it, and then go, you know,
Dhru 08:56
The good leaders say that though, the good companies. There's still a lot of companies now trying to get anyone back to the office, because they're afraid of productivity and whatever, which is also just a bullshit excuse. Right? It's just an excuse for control. They want control of their employees. There is a shift, though, for sure. COVID definitely had an effect where a lot of people now are realizing the work can get done outside of the office. You don't have to have everyone in the office sitting there doing nothing against you nothing at home. You know, but there's a there's a line going back to what you said earlier, which is an interesting… the movie up in the air with George Clooney. I think I saw it a while ago. Yeah, great movie. But there's one line in there where he asked the guy he's like, how much did they originally pay you to give up on your dreams? Right? Yeah. And that's, that's huge. That's powerful to frame it that way. Right? Yeah. Because we don't frame it that way. We're like, Oh, I gotta get this job to pay for my life. And then 20 years later, fast forward. You just get caught up in the grind and you realize 20 years have gone by?
Peter 09:42
Wow, that's interesting. Yeah, my brain just went to, I got stuck in what I consider headshot land, which isn't a bad place to be. But I never went to commercial work. I never got the big commercial jobs. I may have done them. I've done little things here and there over the course of my career, and they come they come when they come but it's not like I ever went down that path. I'm not doing ads for print, I'm not, you know, I just don't do much editorial like I just I always wanted that never did it and I kind of sold out for because the money came in with the headshots. But now I'm like, wait a minute, hold on this has been great. You know, it's just been a, it's been an amazing thing to be able to not only parlay it into growing the community that I built, and having those photographers out there doing the jobs, and it's been awesome.
Dhru 10:30
Yeah. And that that community, I mean, the headshot crew is really I mean, I've only been part of it for a very short period of time, but it's a really cool community. But from my experience, it's rare to find that kind of community where everyone is really invested in everybody else growing. Because oftentimes, you hear people advertise that. And there's like, 20% of people to actually feel that way. And then the other 80 are just out for themselves and trying to figure out how to how to leverage this and how to leverage that and how to how to make it their own. What has been the difference for you, that you've noticed what they what the different photographers who join the Headshot Crew.
Peter 10:59
I think the one thing is that, you know, obviously I run the ship, so I call it an AFZ. And I'd use acronyms a lot, but AFZ is an Asshole-Free-Zone, and I tell people point blank, look, the competitive nature of people is out there. I think it's you know, I'm competitive as they come like I train for the Olympics. I know. I'm crazy human competition-wise, but mostly, I just try and focus it on myself. So it's got nothing to do with what the guys doing down the street. I don't care what the guy's doing down the street. I'm the one who have to go to work that guy, I don't know if that guy's working today or not, I'm working, I got shit to do. You know, I don't care if that guy got out of bed or not. I'm outta bed at six or seven. And I'm rolling. I'm like, candle burning. You know, I don't fool around. I go workhorse mode. And it's game on. And that's why I knew I was kind of unstoppable because of the work ethic. But the work ethic was based on the love for what I'm doing. Like, I don't feel like I'm working. I'm in the studio, I don't feel like I'm working. And going back to the photographers that I've been able to bring into the headshot crew, I think iit's just the people that are seeing competition. I'll give you an example. Chicago, I don't have as many photographers in New York competing against me for my own headshot work that I'm coaching. I taught my first workshop. And this guy comes in he goes, Why are you teaching your competition? And I was like, I don't know. I don't see it like that. I was like, I don't know how long it took me to get like the for me, I'm going to teach you I want you to succeed. There's enough to go around, what are you worried about? And I always had a problem because I have this global community of photographers anyway Chicago has like I do the workshop out there. And there's just so much talent and there's a lot of photographers and I have seen them bond together and raise that market like no other just because of the headshot crew bonding through Chicago there's a Associate Status that people get to and I think there's more associates in in Chicago and it's just a good example that I have because most people are used to this and in whatever you know, job you have or whatever is you're used to competition and coming into competition and going no that person is competing against me the people embrace the fact that you know the headshot career I teach a style they do it and then they can you know actually grow together and change the and educate people on what a good headshot is. And then and then I've seen it elevate the entire city. So those people that are worried about the person next to them don't stay long. They just don't stay so.
Dhru 13:29
So, self weeding out process almost right. Which is great. That's cool.
Peter 13:34
You don't want them there anyway.
Dhru 13:36
Yeah, exactly.
Peter 13:38
What do you want them there for? There's a quote that I love. And I don’t know, I think maybe Bill… I don't know who said it. Amateurs compete. Professionals create. And I'm a pro. So if I'm a pro… like you can't play that game with me, I'm a pro. I'm creating new doesn't matter what you're doing.
Dhru 13:51
I love that. I actually, let me use that quote because what I was thinking of was another movie grow work. I do a lot of movie TV quotes. The one I was thinking of was from this movie called With Honors with Joe Pesci back in the day in like 98 or something. And the quote is winners forget they're in a race, they just love to they just love to run.
Peter 14:10
Oh, wow, that's cool.
Dhru 14:11
I love that. Right? Because then that's exactly what you just described right? It's like you just love what you're doing so much you don't care about the guy next door or that kind of stuff. And that's that's also part of that mentality and you had a business coach for a while that mentality that you get when you work with a coach is like the getting out of scarcity and into that whole idea of abundance and just focus on creating as opposed to just worrying what everyone else is doing reacting all the time. And we talked about this briefly, creating versus reacting if you're reacting you can't be creative and when you're creating.
Peter 14:37
It's easier said than done though. Let's be real you know, it's when you got bills bills to pay, and that fucker down the street.
Dhru 14:42
It’s like Maslow right? If you're worried about putting roof over your head, you can't be worried about self actualization the same time right? You're worried about the very basic stuff like getting food, getting shelter, you know, making sure your family is fed and healthy. So you can't sit there and we're like, oh, I'm worried about the the baseline foundational stuff as well as the self actualization, like, top of the pyramid stuff, right? It's not possible. But in terms of the work your do with Bob, Bob Proctor, you know, because he was your coach, what was the most impactful thing you learned from Bob?
Peter 15:11
I didn't know I was going to devote the report that I that I did with Bob years later, what happened was I was introduced to him in 1998. After I, it was was 1997. I think, after I was trained for the Olympics, already, I worked with a sports psychologist for the US team. And we were doing visualization stuff and some goal setting stuff. But I didn't really realize that I was setting… I didn't know about goal setting or anything like that. I walked into a Bob Proctor seminar and my jaw hit the floor. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, this guy's the real dude, this is crazy. And I think a lot of personal development, you know, the same message is out there, you know, think positive and set goals and work your butt off, believe in yourself. All that stuff is very similar. It's the message that gets delivered from the different individuals. So I always tell people look, hang out with somebody that resonates for you. So Bob just was it for me, it wasn't hocus pocusy. And it wasn't you know, it was just, I was just like, I'm gonna grow with this. And that's how I built I built my business based on his principles. It worked. I was like, Oh my gosh, it works so well that I forgot about him. So I started rolling. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm hitting every goal. You know, I couldn't rub two nickels together before I met that guy. And I even though I'm damn good looking, I couldn't make over 50 grand a year as a, as a model-actor-bartender-dude, that's why I was in the bar. Right? So then I picked up the camera. And of course, the you know, I'm not to get into money. But the, you know, the 100k goal was, Oh, I was a kid, I was in my 20s. I was like, I gotta make 100k with it. I just turned 30 Actually, and I was like, I get it. And then my wife got pregnant. And then we found that they were twins. And I had just started shooting headshots, I better make 200 now, and I'm living in New York City. And then the two went to four and the four went to eight. And anyway, everything started with that trajectory into what I was doing. And what happened was, I got so busy, that I stopped studying and I stopped working on me personally, because I was, I was so focused on what I was doing. And at the time, it was great because I was hitting goals, and I was doing everything. And then the recession came in, like 2007, 2008. And my income went backwards. And I remember, it's very difficult to live in New York City and have your income go backwards when you got twins. So I was like, This is not good. And I kind of got burnout with what I was doing a little bit. And then on a Facebook feed or something. Another thing for Bob Proctor . And you know, I haven't really looked into bump stuff in a long time. And that's when I signed up for a year coaching with him. And that changed everything. That was it. And the thing was, he always pushed multiple sources of income. And the thing was, I had to have a human being in front of my camera. And I had to press the button to make any income from 2000, When I picked up the camera until 2009, when I took this course. And he said you're going to figure out other source of income. So that was 2009. In like 2016 or something, he brought me into one of his seminars to shoot people and he brought me up on stage to talk to them. And it was very cool. And I remember before I went up on stage, he was talking about sources of income. He goes Peter how many sources of income> Yeah. And I was all proud. I'm like, Bob, I have eight. And Bob goes, eight, you should have 800. And I was like and he's right. And he's right. So I always coach my people not only on photography, but on multiple source of income. And I'm constantly trying to evolve to figure out in this for instance, I'm going to start a podcast. I don't know why I'm just gonna try and figure out how to monetize I'm like gonna start talking to people like it's another source of income. There you go. Check it off, guys start a podcast. There you go. You know what? Hey, you never know you know, but that was that was the thing so now I'm back on track with that, that information, but it took me, I was probably stopped studying Bob when I picked up when I started shooting headshots. I was so busy. For seven years, I wasn't really growing or, I mean I was growing and I was, my business was rocking. But it didn't take off to where to where I am now without studying that stuff. So yeah, yeah.
Dhru 19:26
What was the inspiration that started the headshot crew when you first when you first did it?
Peter 19:27
Well, what happened was I was minding my own business in here just shooting and the F-Stoppers walked in F-Stoppers for those that don't know, it's like the one of the biggest photography blogs in the world now. But then they were just two guys that worked at a camera store that decided to start a blog. So they said, hey, what if we contact some photographers who we like and we'll go interview them. So they showed up at my studio and they did an interview for me. And then the thing went nuts and then that people loved it. It was just one little video and people loved it. The photographer's loved it so they said, hey, you know why don't you teach a tutorial? They had never done a tutorial before. Now they do tutorials up the wazoo but they were like, Why don't you teach it tutorial on headshots I was like the only thing I have ever taught is sailing. I don't know how to teach photography I'm first of all, I'm the other thing that I love about what I do is that I'm self-taught, like I never took a course. So I don't know any the lingo I to this day, like people will laugh at me that I don't know some photography lingo. I was like, I don't care, I make more money than you. You know, like, I don't care. Like, I don't really care. I mean, I shouldn't say that. But, but it's true. No, I'm very fortunate. But the thing is, is that it's a medium where trial and error works. And if I can say anything to anyone, your genius is going to be capped on something that you were you might learn from somebody, I don't want my genius to be capped. So I don't want to know, like, I don't want you to teach me anything. Because I want to figure it out for myself because I'll do it the wrong way and it'll be right. Like I always tell my students, and I do teach, so I do have to teach them, and I want them to learn from me, obviously, but I want them to grow and go. So I always say break my rules, go break them, do them, show me that you can do them, but then break them. So anyway, when when I agreed to do in that tutorial, by the way, it changed my life. Talking about multiple sources of income, it's probably one of the most successful, I have one of the most successful tutorials in the photography world ever. It's got to be top five or something anyway. But I know what I have, I think I have the number one most successful photography workshop ever. So what happened was they were like, you did the video. Now you got to do a workshop. And then my web developer was like, Well, where are we going? What are you going to do with all those people? Why don't you teach them? I was like, I don't know, he goes, Well, why don't we make like a place like a Facebook for photographers? I was like, Okay, make that. So we made Headshot Crew. And then so what happens is I did the tutorials, and then I did the workshop, then they go into the headshot crew, and I coach them there. So it was all like that, that process. And it was all because the F-Stoppers knocked on my door.
Dhru 22:10
And it's art, right? You're teaching art. Right? And so that that's part of the, sort of the challenge is like, like you said, like, you know, when it looks good. And you know, when it doesn't, right? You don't necessarily know the technical reason why it doesn't look good to articulate that somebody, but you know, it's doesn't look good. So like, let me try this. I'm try that. And let me get it to the point where it looks good, right? And that's how I learned Photoshop the first time but so I teach coaching at Georgetown, right? And so like, I tell them, something similar is like, learn the rules. So you know when to break the rules. You want to know the rules, and then you can do whatever you need to do with your style, make it your own, right. But at least learn the basics and make sense. And like like you're saying, like, you know, you're teaching people your way, and then improve on it, like build on it make it better. And at least my experience wise, that's a more powerful way to teach, and to really help people to grow up as opposed to like, do it my way or else. And then that's it, right?
Peter 22:55
Oh, yeah. I mean, I kind of say that at the beginning. Because their stuff sucks if they don't, but I'm like, look, you could break the rules once you do it.
Dhru 23:00
Exactly. Yeah, you don't want people breaking the rules, before they even know what they're doing. Right? Because then they're just gonna wonder why they're not successful long term, right? So the chance stuff is always fascinating to me. Obviously, Bob was a big impact on your life and an influence. If you could think of someone else or other folks in your life who have been influential, or books or movies or any kind of reference for yourself, like what was. what were the biggest influences on your life and your career?
Peter 23:30
Stuff that you don't realize, well, I mean, this is kind of like, like, tough to get into, but my mom was such a badass, she's gone now. But I didn't realize it when she was here. Like, I had no clue that I was going to glean this. She was a powerhouse. And I didn't know that that was going to do anything for me. Like I just was like, Man, I can't handle I'm like, I was like mom, okay, all right, I'd like to set up my darkroom in her basement. And I would go out there and be like, working like I had to get shots done. I was processing all my own film, and then we'd go out to Jersey. And she was trying to be a mom. And now I, you know, obviously wish I was was paying more attention because she's gone. But a lot of things that we realize about our parents and our upbringing and stuff you don't realize until you really reflect on it. And then you really can't do that until if the person's around, I guess. I don't know, my dad's still around. I'm trying to reflect on him. If you look up to your parents, I think it's an amazing thing. I didn't know it at the time, but my mom was pretty, pretty amazing. I'm trying to think who else? Really? I mean, there's photographers, you know, there's obviously Bob Proctor, you know, there's been people in my life that have influenced me, but when I picked up the camera, there were photographers doing amazing things that I was like, I want to shoot like that person. I don't know. I think that the development of the eye is a really tough thing. That's something I can't teach either. So I feel like I found headshots, but I can shoot anything. I just don't get myself out there to do it. I, I was inspired by like, obviously Bruce Weber, My only knowledge of what the top of the industry was was him. And then once I got into studying photography, it was Richard Avedon, who was still around. And one of my friends ended up shooting with him when that was a model. And I was always like, oh, I want to I want to shoot with him. I became the most annoying model when I picked up the camera, because I was like, I wasn't, I was self-taught. So I was like, I just want to annoy the photographer on set, and they just be like, can you just get in front of the camera? Shut up. I was like, Yeah, but what's that? What is this? What's this over here? It was like that. Irving Penn, you know, the big ones were were the inspiration. But I always think about, like, what is what is the fiber or the being? Where's that come from? Because I think that I'll use an example. When I was training for the Olympics, the guys that were like the best in the world, even like the world champions and stuff, but everybody that we were training with those on the US team, when the Olympics were over, one guy went to the Olympics, the rest of the guys, like all dispersed and got jobs and got out into the real world, including myself, and you know, did that kind of thing. It's so interesting to see how successful those guys were, like, everybody went off and did different things. But everybody did major, like major successes. I was like, Is there something about training for the Olympics, or having that mindset or that mentality that leads to you going out and needing to excel in whatever it is that you do? And I guess that obviously, there's some sort of play there. So I think my biggest influence, if we are is going to be sailing. It wasn't even a person. It was the fact that at the age of 13, I, I won this world championship, I remember, and it was like, it was like a little World Championship. But if you have little ones, it's at my club. It's like we made it up, because there's only boats in this little area. So it's not a big deal. But it was a big deal for me. And I was thrust into this thing. And I learned competition. I learned decision-making. I learned all this stuff from this sport that I love so much. So I don't think people really know actually now. They're trying to get sailing more popular, and everything I know Gary Vee just did something and signed something with Larry Ellison for SailGP. I don't know what they're doing. But I saw Gary on the feet. And I was like, Yeah, Gary's getting into sailing. I love it. Now we're talking. Yeah, the Jets and SailGP why not? But no, it's, it's interesting stuff. So this, the sport of sailing, will take you and it takes kids and puts them in an environment where I was out on the boat on my own. When I was 10 years old, in the middle of a bay, like in huge wind and a squall and lightning and thunder, and you're, you're challenged like up the wazoo. And then you're like playing chess. But the boards moving with the wind changing and the waves changing and the boats changing. And then you got to, you know, anyway, it's very, it's extremely challenging, and it's extremely rewarding at the same time. I just got inducted into the Barnegat Bay Sailing Hall of Fame, which was really a real huge honor. They asked me you could do it, you know, your acceptance speech to being inducted. And I was like, they're like, we'll give you five minutes. And I was like, What am I gonna same five minutes. I was like, nobody went five minutes. Mine was ended up being like 15, I think. But I remember it was really about the people who influenced me along the way. So getting back to and I think people think about this, if you if you really dig into it, sometimes you don't think about your influences, because it doesn't come to you. When you said that question. I mean, nothing popped in my head that was that concrete? The, my mom's easy, right? That's, if you have that scenario wasn't easy. When she was around that it was not easy at all. She's tough. But here's one that really, I ended my speech with this, I don't get emotional by my mom, but I get emotional about it, about my sailing instructor. So I'm 10 years old. And summer's over and I'm walking around the club and we had this award ceremony and they gave us our trophies. And we had our trophies and I had a good summer I was I was sailing this boat called the duck boat which three years later, I would be the world champion. But I was 10 I was just starting. And everybody's leaving to go north for the summer because it's a summer town. And the head sailing instructor walks up to me in the parking lot. And I remember where I was in the parking lot. And he says to me, he says, he says it's been a privilege to watch you grow and coach you this summer, he said you’re a natural and I can't wait… he was leaving. He wasn't going to be the sailing instructor. The sailing instructors usually don't stay more than a summer. I did it and you stay in one place for more than one summer maybe. And he said I can't wait to see what you do with it. So I ended my speech with that. Paul Magno he's a good friend of mine. I sail against him now. But he did that, to that 10 year old and I just was like, I was in. I keep talking about it, now I'm 53.
Dhru 30:13
Because it had an impact on you. I mean, that's the things that impact us. I mean, not that it didn't mean anything to him, but it meant it was like the whole world in that moment for you, right, like the change or the course of your life. But, that's powerful. I mean, telling a 10 year old giving the 10 year old, that kind of hope, and that kind of focus and support to encourage them
Peter 30:29
At the speech, it's on Instagram, I did it live. I did, I gave the speech live. So when he didn't, he, I had told him this story, because we're friends. And actually, I was modeling at the time. And he asked me to crew for him. No, I hadn't started modeling. And I was crew for him. And he hit it was probably my fault. Because I didn't tell him where to go. I was, I was supposed to tell him, there's a channel marker in front of the boat. But he hit a channel of marker dead on and I went flying and I landed on my chin and split it open, I have a scar on my chin from that guy. But anyway, he didn't know I, so over the years, I had told him I said, you know this story, I don't think I don't remember the first time I told him the story. But it was probably like five or 10 years ago, I told him, and then every once in a while, it comes up in conversation. So I don't think he expected it at the induction speech. And the only reason why he was there is because his brother was getting inducted with me. So I knew he was gonna be there. I was like, I know he's gonna be there. And it was awesome. I didn't get emotional when I said it there. I don't know why I think I practice too much. But when I think about that, and everybody has that, who's the person? And it wasn't even that I remember him how much he did for me that entire summer. I remember that encouragement that way at that moment. And that was the thing that I always go back to. And all my success in life, everything has revolved around a sailboat. Because the sailing was my identity. And then somehow, I picked up the camera. And I don't know, I don't know how that has to do with sailing. But I have incorporated the two very little some of the sailors out there. I get to photograph sailing every once in a while.
Dhru 32:14
No, but I mean, I think something about that like that, like that. You mentioned that that kind of tenacity and resilience you build, being out on the water, right having to deal with all those the moving chessboard, so to speak, right. And I think about it, I had this conversation with someone a little while ago, I forgot when, who was talking to but we're talking about traveling, right and traveling the world and how the experience when you travel by yourself in a place where they don't speak English, or they don't speak your native language, or whatever it might be. It's so much more rewarding, and so much more growth is involved in that experience than it is going to like a country where they already speak your language. Right like going to London. Not I mean, it was cool amazing architecture, all kinds of stuff, you know, history and whatnot. But going to Japan, a totally different experience and the growth because you have to look inward. I think the same thing is true, when you're talking about sailing are all you're just you it's just you on the water, right? So you have to look inward for that kind of growth and that kind of resilience. And what do I do next? I got to ask myself that question. And then just try it out and see what works. And I think the camera sounds like that, like figuring out the camera was almost like figuring out where to go in the water. For you.
Peter 33:21
Yea, I just I parlayed that into the camera yet. So little knobs on a camera as opposed to trim and sheets on a sailboat. But yeah, same thing. But I love what you said, I love travel. And I feel like the challenge. Travel is so stressful and so rewarding at the same time. It's like I got to get from point A to point B, and I was doing a six-week trip to Europe earlier in the summer. And I was like, I don't even know how I'm going to do this. I was like, I gotta go. Because my buddy goes, Hey, we're baptizing my daughter in Greece. And I was already going to Amsterdam to teach a workshop like that next week. So I was like, he's like, would you come and I was like, I'm gonna be an Amsterdam the next week. If I move it a week earlier. Now I'm in, in Europe. Six weeks instead of five. I was like, alright, I'll go. But then my daughter's in Barcelona. So I was like, My wife wants to go to Barcelona. She doesn't want to go to Amsterdam and watch me teach. Anyway, long story short, I'm in Greece, I go to Greece. I do the whole baptism thing. I go into Barcelona, the plane doesn't make it because of the storm and I end up in Munich. And I've got this photographers there. So I'm like, Hey, I'm in Munich. And then Fabio comes and we make him Associate in Munich getting lit up at the, at the Moxie and by the airport or whatever. And then we jump on the plane and we go to Barcelona, and then my wife's like, I'm not going with it. So I had to drop her in Barcelona, go to Amsterdam. And then in Amsterdam, Peter Roelofs is there and he's like, Oh, I'm gonna fly you back to Barcelona. I was like, Okay, so he's a photographer pilot. And I jump in the cockpit with Mo, apparently over there you can get in the cockpit. So I'm in the jump seat and I'm like filming stuff and I got my R5 with me and I put it down and he lands and the camera goes flying into the back of his head. I mean, it hit the chair. It didn't hit his head. But this trip was like, going into it. That's why I always stress with my friends and stuff. I'm like, You got to travel and you going to place. I mean, like, you know, most of the obviously Europe most of its English speaking and if it's not that, you can get away with it, but the challenge is just airport challenges like. Well, I'm a people watcher. So I love airports. I like I like just sit there and watch faces. I go crazy. I'm like looking at I'd shoot that what do I do with that, how’d that thing get on there? I'm like, wow, look at this person. Look at these two people. You know what the coolest thing is because I have my facial conveyance strategist is that I sit in airports when they're not speaking the language. And I know exactly what's going on in the conversation by the facial expressions. So I'll be like, Oh, my gosh, I'll be in another country. And it doesn't matter. I just watch the face. And I'm like, Yeah, I got what's going on there. I got it all. I took it all in. But yeah, I think that that if people haven't traveled and gone through that, I think the amount of growth and stuff, I just think it's cool. I didn't leave the country until I was 23. I think when I started training for the Olympics, I went to Europe, my first trip, and I hadn't left home at 23. I think I brought my girls out of the country when they were like four, I don't remember where we went. I was like, I'm starting them early. You know, let's get everybody traveling. And it's just been awesome. The globes just getting smaller and smaller and smaller. I have friends that are like, I don't want to go anywhere or doing it. I'm like, go, get your ass out there. Come on.
Dhru 36:31
Yeah, get out of comfort zone. I mean, this thing is like you stay in your comfort zone, you're not gonna grow at all, like not even a little bit. Get uncomfortable. You have to grow, you force yourself to grow like, especially in situations where you gotta rely on yourself and be resilient and deal with stuff. You know.
Peter 36:45
I think it's daunting, like I was, I was setting this trip up, and I was like, how am I gonna pull this off, because I had workshops to do and I had sailing to do and I had a big job in Paris that I had to shoot, I had to shoot to see you in Paris before I was in. I was doing it all. And I was setting it all up. And I was like, I'm gonna, I actually and I got home and I pulled it off. And I was like, wow, I'm worried about I mean, it was challenging, but it was like, so rewarding. I was thinking about it when I got to some airport, and obviously something didn't go well. And I was like, alright, well, this is what's thrown at me. I'm gonna did why is this happening? All right, let's see what happens. And I was like, I'll just deal with it. It was great. Yeah, I know.
Dhru 37:24
And in another country, a lot of people would have would freak out about that a lot of people would have that kind of like breakdown, kind of like moment. I feel like and I think it's a mindset, right? So my mental shift where it's like, I'm gonna figure this out, as opposed to I can't figure this out, right? It's like, instead of, I can't, or it's how can I figure this out? What can we do here? You know what I mean? It's like, make it free to do that your brain allow your brain to do it, and it will.
Peter 37:43
It's so interesting. And I think humans human nature is to help other people. So if you get in a fix, you know, or bind, somebody's gonna help you step up to the plate and help you out. I mean, there's a lot of corners of the planet that I haven't you know, gone to yet that would be kind of cool. You know.
Dhru 37:59
What is your number one right now? Where’s, like, the place you want to go to?
Peter 38:03
I mean, it always has to do with sailing. So there's, there's racing all over the world, but I was like, I haven't raced in South America in a while. I haven't raced in Africa in a while, but I've been, but I just haven't. I haven't gotten recently. Somebody asked me to go shoot, go on safari and bring a group of like do a workshop on safari and stuff. I was like headshots of animals great. I could do that. You know, I don't know, I never did that. Maybe I should do that. I've heard great things about Africa and going on a safari so maybe maybe something like that. I don't know. I don't, right now I'm looking at I always put a workshop where my races are. So we'll just see where the races end up and where the workshops end up and go from there.
Dhru 38:45
So what's next for you and then and in terms of you know, you got the Headshot Crew, you got the workshops are doing amazing, you know, what's next on the, on the, in the plan for you if you have, if you have a plan?
Peter 38:55
Yea, well, one of the things I just started doing a lot of photographers you know, segue into doing video and I think video is hot right now. I mean, everybody needs a video, and you got to be shooting content all the time. I'm shooting content for my social for myself all the time. I figured why not do some for other people? So I think the skill set that's been honed for the last 20 some odd years when people I don't know if you noticed this but when people stepped foot in front of a camera, they act a little strange generally. Yeah. So a little bit so our job is to get them to chill out so I was like, I'm a master at that. This is like if I was gonna say a master anything, it's getting somebody to chil in from the camera or trying to figure out how to persuade them to chill. And that works whether it's a still camera or video camera. I found a lot of people don't you know, when I was acting, I think my acting classes and stuff helped me immensely with growth, obviously I sucked at acting so I was not meant to be an actor, but I did get the acting skills from being in the classes and doing the things and pushing myself into and there was a lot of growth there. That's the thing is that the camera sometimes stifles people and it's such a huge way. And if I pointed at them, and I can talk them out of it, that's a good skill. So I was like, I'm going to do some videos and get some people rockin and rollin and do that. So that's one of the things that I'm working on and I'm excited to do is to work with people for their branding videos and stuff like that, and would tell their story and about how they're, you know, changing the world. They're doing whatever they're doing for the planet or their customer just to, you know, help people out here on that one where revolving around this big ball of fire.
Henry 40:37
I love that man. That's awesome. Yeah, cuz video, I mean that I agree, it was the most compelling form of media right now out there, you know, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon. That's cool to make that pivot for yourself. And obviously gonna continue doing headshots. But, if you could shoot something else besides headshots what, what would you want to shoot?
Peter 40:50
I mean, I only want to shoot when there's a human being in the picture. Like, I'm like, I don't shoot, and I want to direct them. I like direction. So it would be anything, you know, it would be more of the stuff that I've already done at a grander scale. I guess. I don't know what that grander scale would be, but I guess it would be, you know, being a go-to guy for somebody that needs a portrait for some important reason. And they would have to be like, this is the guy I'm going to I have that with, with a large group of my clients call me when they need when they need stuff. And I want to be their go-to guy. So that's that's kind of what I'm doing. One of my things in my message in, I don't know if any, if anybody wants to check out I did a TEDx Talk with a with a psychologist and the they asked me to talk about, like portrait photography for this TEDx Cambridge. And I was like, at the time, I was like, I don't know what I was, like, I I look up to Ted and TEDx is like, I was like, those things are cool. Like, I don't know what's so special about me that I should talk on that thing. But the coolest thing I had going on at the time was I was working with Dr. Anna Rowley, and we were talking about how the camera affects people psychologically and how our relationship with our appearance affects us on a daily basis. So I always say that your relationship with your appearance is a side door to, like your character, part of your character is baked into how you feel about your appearance. And I don't think people take that very well. I was like, well, it is I mean, it's just like, I hate when I show people their picture on the screen. And I hear that, and so many people do it. Oh, that's terrible. Oh, my I had the person in here today did it, oh, my gosh, I had another product. Oh, that's great. So I had the person saying, Oh, that's terrible. I'm not photogenic I don't know, I'm not good in front of cameras, be one of the picture look great. And then I had the other person that was like, Oh, my gosh, I look so good. And I was like, you’re a gem and this is what I get every day. So that's an underlying theme. We're wrapped in this body of ours that our parents gave us, we won a lottery and we ended up on planet Earth. And this is what we got. So if people are running around thinking of it negatively, I don't love that. So I'm working on a talk to open people up to the conversation of changing the relationship with their appearance and discussing that in a grander scheme of things. So we'll see where that goes. But that's something that is definitely going to come down the pike for me because if you watch that TEDx Talk, it is the start of it. So and in that I said I was shooting Miss Universe, and she, I was shooting her for cover magazine after she wanted she had gotten married already. Her husband was in the room and she's turns ot him and she goes, honey, I can't stand my face. And I was like Miss Universe can't stand her face. Are you kidding me? So I called her and I said, can I use that story in my my TEDx Talk? And she's like, Yeah, you can use it. That's how strongly I feel I was like, you can use I was like, okay, cool. And so I use, but there's more to that, and I did that talk in 2015. And I haven't extrapolated any more on it. I mean, I deal with it on a daily basis. And there's something there. So there's a bigger talk, there's a more, I can dive deeper into that. And that's what, that's what I really want to do. Because I don't think humans should be keeping that on their plate and so consumed with appearance and stuff like that. So or feeling they, everybody's got beauty, and it's my job to find it. And I want to find it for them, as well, so that they understand it when they look at it.
Dhru 44:25
I deal with a lot of people who have impostor syndrome for example, right? And this title is saying similar things like how you see yourself how you see, I think others see you versus how they actually see you write that video you played for us at the intensive. The artists, the sketch artist, you sketch the person the way they describe themselves to him, and then it gets the person based on the same person based on how like someone that is met with met them.
Peter44:46
Yea, the dove commercial.
Dhru 44:47
Yeah, that was really, really fascinating. Because again, there's there's more psychology behind that. So I'm really curious to see where that goes. That's cool, man.
Peter 44:49
I'd be interested in talking to somebody that specializes in impostor syndrome. I think impostor syndrome is prevalent, obviously, but the one thing about impostor syndrome that I'm thinking I don't know if this is true is that the people that have it, it's between themselves. They don't go around telling people that they're experiencing that it just between them. The problem with the picture is that they verbalize it to me. But they don't verbalize it to anybody. I don't think they go around telling people I'm not good in pictures, or that's a terrible picture of me or I'm so unattractive. But they'll tell their photographer, so I'm like, what do I do with this information? You're paying me to get a good picture of you and you don't like any picture? You're so I can't? I don't know. So it's interesting. It's an interesting thing.
Dhru 45:30
Yeah. And I wonder if if it's like something where, because you're an expert in the field, they're like, Oh, let me tell him so he can make me look better, or whatever. Because I know, we did some headshots for a guy a while ago, just before we went to your intensive thing, but on and did some matches for a guy like an associate of a friend of mine. He's like, Oh, yeah, can you do this? Maybe then by the end of the all the changes, it didn't look like him at all, it looks like in like, maybe 20 years earlier. And it's like, what are you using this for? Dude? Like, why? Why are you trying to make it look like it's not even you, you know, like, that's, that's this you are who you are, there's nothing wrong with that, you know, just it is, it's where you are right now. And if you want to take a picture, and a couple years, and you will work on yourself, and really, you know, lose some weight, or whatever you want to do for yourself, that's one thing. But if you're gonna, if you're gonna just make it some blanket statement, like I just I let it look good, or whatever. And I want to look like someone else and show this picture of someone totally different. So people are confused when they meet you. I don't know. It's weird.
Peter 46:24
But that's the way people are. And I always tell people, look, you're gonna love this picture in 10 years, like, and that Eleanor Roosevelt quote is the best. She said, you're the oldest you've ever been and the youngest you'll ever be again, right at this moment. And I was like, I hit people with that. I'm like, you know, you're the oldest you've ever been the youngest you ever be again, I think we should take this picture. Now.
Dhru 46:42
That's a powerful call to make. Because I guess when you said that, again, the best one to use in the in the headshot intensive. And that was one that hit home for me too. Like, wow, that's, that's, that's deep. That's really deep. And it's true. And it's, it's compelling in some ways, too. Because, you know, you're never going to be, none of us are ever going to be exactly where we are right now. Right? Ever again, things might be the same location or same whatever. But we're not at this moment is not gonna come again, right? For whatever it's worth, but good moment or bad moment, whatever.
Peter 47:12
Do you notice that like, as you age, the give a fuck factor just goes in? Like all of a sudden I'm like, I don't care as much as I did. 10 years ago. I'm like, old now. I'm older now.
Dhru 47:16
It's rapidly fading for me as well.
Peter 47:17
It's like, amazing. You're so young, come on.
Dhru 47:20
Well, yeah. But I mean, I also deal with a lot of BS a lot of times, I mean, not that you don't but yeah, you know, as much as you know, especially business owners, we do a lot of bullshit over time. And it just it goes, the more you feel it, the more you deal with as long as you're resilient about it. You have resilience meant mentality, the more you deal with, the less talent you have for it, because you like okay, well, I'm not doing this again. I'm gonna learn my lesson and set boundaries and make it so that again, asshole-free zone, right, you make your life an asshole-free zone. And suddenly you're a lot happier. Here you go.
Dhru 47:53
Yeah, get toxic people. So it's a big one.
Dhru 47:55
James here, actually, he did a documentary recently on a covert narcissist, because he went through an experience with one. I'm really close to him and fucked up a whole lot of shit for him, unfortunately, but he's recovered from that, thankfully. But that's a huge one too, because a lot of people don't even realize if people in their lives and then they feel obligated to keep them around. Right? Because like, Oh, I've known this guy for so long. Or he's my brother, or he's my cousin or whatever. I can't get rid of them. Yeah, you can. Yeah. You probably should. You know, it's probably better for everyone if you do. It's fascinating stuff, man. human psychology is always always fun. And that's also why I like your approach. Because you do take that psychological approach with it. And I think that's also part of it, because he taught yourself so you don't have that you're not hampered by the by the well, that mentality through like, I don't know, anything that I don't know, I think mentality frees you up to be like, I can absorb everything and make it all put it all together in a really cool package that isn't bound by the rules of this particular context. Right? Whereas people who are confined to that, like technical this and that or whatever, there's nothing wrong with that. That's great. But at the same time, it's like, okay, well, you're also only going to leave, stay that in that lane, you're never going to leave that lane, right?
Peter 49:05
I think so I think that people go through a lot of different areas of growth. This is kind of interesting. Like, this guy comes to me, and he goes, Hey, you don't have that many Google… I like I'm just not good at asking people to give Google reviews or something. So he's like, I got this AI-generating Google review thing where it doesn't generate the review for the person. But what it does is it takes your email list of your clients and then it figures out because Google doesn't like if they all give you reviews in one day or something. So it's like this thing that takes it over a course of a year or whatever. So all of a sudden, like like I said, I try it because I'm a lot of the photographers are using it and it's it's interesting. I think the AI part of it is in the responses and I'm like, I don't cuz it responds from, and I was like, No, I want to respond, but I should but I should go in there. Anyway. Long story short on this is that it was contacting clients of mine over the course of my career, and then people who didn't review would be like, Oh my gosh, I had an amazing session with Peter. And I'm like, wow, that was like 12 years ago. And they're giving a Google review now, this thing really works. Cool. All right. So now I went from 100 reviews to over 200 reviews, and it worked. But then it also has this, Hey, how was your shoot with Peter, and people will click and then they'll write something about the shoot. And I remember those way more than the ones that are positive, and there were things that I was like, wow, I needed to grow. I remember that situation. I think I was too tough on myself and my clients, and the people that worked with me. And I think that I needed some growth in to turn it for me. I was like the artist, I was like, You can't mess with my art. Don't be messing with my art. And I think now I'm like, oh, wow, yeah, it's my art, but I can, maybe their take on it or something is better for me, like I'm trying to grow. And I, and I didn't realize that until I got some of these emails where they were like, they were like, well, Peter did this. And Peter did that. And I was like, and my other friend who is an influencer is, like, don't read those. And I was like, Yeah, but I want to know what I'm not. I'm not feeling like, I feel like, I feel like I need to grow. And if I wasn't like, it enlightened me, it was like, Oh, I was that strict, like I had, you know, I was just tough stuff. Like, I'm very tough on the people who work with me, and one of the clients was like he made the makeup artist cry, I don't think I would do that now. But I did I remember, I was so tough, I was so mad that I was like, I couldn't get what I wanted. And I was like, in my artists was not going to allow that, that it was I was and I don't think I'm that guy anymore. What do you maybe have to go through that stuff? You know.
Dhru 51:57
I mean, reading the negative, or I'd say constructive. But when those reviews that they're not always positive, I think as long as you can have a thick skin about it and look at it from that perspective of like, I need to grow and like, this is going to be feedback. And then you can let go of the ones that are just just venting and ranting about nonsense. It's hard. It's certainly harder than that. I say it as though it's easy. It's not easy. And most of this is all mindset stuff, right? It's all like getting in the right mindset, and then be able to hold that back afterwards, like hold emotions back and actually be logical instead of human in that moment, you know, but But no, there's there's definitely, I mean, getting that that feedback. And thinking back to that moment, though, from 12 years ago, if you remember, something like that, like that happened back then. But then having that, what is it that hindsight is 2020. Right. In the moment, you probably wouldn't have thought of that way.
Peter 52:39
But now well, I want to get that makeup artist back in the girl back and do the shoot again. I'm like, but I don't know. I don't remember exactly. I probably made multiple makeup artists cry.
Dhru 52:52
I mean, that might be an exercise in healing some fences, I reach out to all the ones I might have made cry, and oh hey, by the way…
Peter 52:59
I was just terrible, oh, my gosh, and the assistants that I've made cry, those I had plenty of those, man. Yeah, I don't think I would do that. I think I grew, I just remember that guy that used to be like that.
Dhru 53:11
As you went from different kinds of shooting to you know, from modeling to sailing and back and forth. And what was your biggest challenge that you have encountered, encountered in your, in your career, whether that be sailing or photography, or both?
Peter 53:26
I mean, sailing is sailing. Like, I wouldn't say that there's any challenges in sailing, like, I didn't make it to the Olympics. Is that really that challenge? Like, you know, it was an uphill climb. It was fun. It was awesome. And I got to do it. Like, I was like, you know, I didn't make it I, I think the biggest challenge there was that and it's the same as anything. I looked at the guy that was the world champion, the guy that was the Olympian, I was like, I just couldn't compete with them. They were just unbelievable in a different atmosphere, mentally, physically. The work ethic, like the belief in themselves, I think, no matter what, like you weren't going to compeat with that. There's no way, like the belief in the person that competes at that level. You just can't get by them like it just like I couldn't instill that belief in myself. The way that they had it, and you could see it a mile away. And when I was doing it, there were two guys that were competing against each other, and they were both maniacs. I was like, these guys are not beatable like, barely beat them. Like some whenever I beat them in a race. It was like a huge deal. I was like, this is cool. So I qualified for the Olympic trials. I'm 53 years old. I haven't seen the Olympic trials since I was 30. So it's 23 years, and I'm doing it in Miami in February, and I'm going in with this concept of I'm going to be sailing against the best guys in the in the United States. And the unfortunate problem is that the best guys in the United States are not good on the world level this particular quad. So I don't have a shot at winning um, I just had my knee operated on I need to sail,I would need to have sailed everyday for four years and then maybe gotten good enough to start to beat these guys before but, I, but I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna have a blast. And I'm gonna go through an Olympic trials because I qualify, I'm good enough to qualify. And I love sailing. So that experience I think it's going to be is going to be really, really good for me. So I'm looking forward to that.
Dhru 55:10
That's amazing. Congratulations. That's, that's huge. I mean, even if you even those guys are, you know, aren't at the level of the rest of the world, so to speak, per se, but that's still a nom phenomenon, especially having just gotten knee surgery and whatnot. So huge man.
Peter 55:26
Yeah, those guys got to step it up, because the the country hasn't even qualified for a spot in the Olympics yet. So we're going to do the Olympic trials. And we won't even know like somebody's going to win the Olympic trials, but they won't even be able to go to the Olympics, unless there's only one other regatta that they can go to to qualify. And I'm not going to that, like I'm not good enough to qualify the country. I don't think so. Somebody's got to do it. But it might so somebody might win the Olympic trials and not go to the Olympics, which would suck, which means we really suck which we use, you really need work, which is kind of, you know, what can you do? So they definitely need some work around it and US sailing right now with the way that it's going. So, but that experience for me doing the Olympics and everything opened up the pathway to get to the camera to get to the thing, and I leapfrog THIS to THIS to THIS to THIS to THIS. So I always tell young sailors and stuff and people that are doing campaigns, I was like, just keep doing it, like go like it was the best time like that. And you ever know, if you look back on your life, and you look at the, I guess I would say growth spurts. That time period in my life was like, like I was like nothing's happened in like 10 years, like that period was like two years. And it was like everything in my life changed and like a year and a half or something. Those nine months like we're like, packed with change. And I've been going 10 years I've had this studio since 2008. I come in here every day, I take headshots. I mean, I don't know, like I mean, other stuffs changed. But you have these growth spurts in areas of your life. And you're like, where's the next growth spurt and what happened during that time to create that spurt? I think those are really important in people's lives. And you can see that trajectory. Usually it's when you come across somebody like you're minding your own business and you're walking along or you're going along and whatever you want to do in life, whatever you're trying to do, and you meet somebody, and they go, oh, yeah, you gotta go this way. Whether they take you or they point you that direction. That was Bruce Weber. For me, that was Bob Proctor for me. I was going like this, and they're like, no, you gotta go that way. I was like, Okay, go that way. And then I start going that way, and I'm gonna hope somebody's over. There you go. Now you gotta go this way. So that's important. And I think we all have those people. So, you know?
Dhru 57:38
Yeah, I think about it in terms like, like, I think it's a great analogy, of like asking, like some kind of asking for directions. But I think the other part of it is you gotta be willing to approach it that way, and actually actually listen to the directions and not think, I like no, I know where I'm going if I'm gonna go this way, regardless, and end up running into a wall.
Peter 57:52
Yeah.
Dhru 57:57
So awesome, man. Well, Peter, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to talk today, man, this is an awesome conversation. And I don't even know how long we’ve been going for. But this is a lot of fun, hopefully, hopefully, as much fun as I did. And then we'll put everything in YouTube and in the description of the podcast and stuff. And folks can reach out to you directly if they're in New York and want a headshot and one of the go with it with the best, obviously. But anything you want to leave folks with any last thoughts?
Peter 58:21
That's a tough one, I, I would say pick up those bones. Like if you get thrown a bone, you gotta, like I think a lot of people take the safe route. And I think that everything in my life where, where the big change has happened is when when I was like, confronted with a decision on whether to go this way or that way. And I went with the tougher one or the spicier one or the one that's going to be a little bit rougher while I could go this way. And it could be pretty easy. And this looks like the way I should go. I think that people that go off the beaten path. And this is like, I mean, everybody's heard this a million times, like when you go do that. You're taking the bigger risk, bigger reward, and I just always kind of operate that way. Sometimes it doesn't pan out.
Dhru 59:05
But at least you tried vice, you know.
Peter 59:07
That's what I would say I said, you got one shot at this thing, you know, you might as well go for it. And I think I think I don't want to go on and on and on. But the the thing that I do think is that the big risks or the challenges or things that scare us that we bust through are the opportunities and you don't get that many things that scare people don't step up to the plate to be scared, like they don't. So when something scares you and you want to do it, then you should just be like, Okay, well, I don't get that many opportunities to be freaked out and to be in this position. So I was like, well, maybe I should do that. And if you have that kind of personality, you're gonna do it. There's some people that just like they live off that stuff. Like they gotta get scared every day like they got to put themselves in those positions there. It's a little bit much for me. But if you're one of those people that just stays on the sidelines and doesn't do anything. You can't be that either. So if you have this opportunity, do you feel fear in something that could propel you forward? Go do it. That's probably the best thing. I go.
Dhru 1:00:00
Yeah. And even if people heard it a million times, sometimes it takes that million and one for them to hear it to actually act on it.
Peter 1:00:09
Yeah, it’s just delivery.
Dhru 1:00:10
Exactly. Awesome, man. Thanks so much, Peter. Yeah, appreciate it, man.
Peter 1:00:12
Thanks for having me.
Dhru 1:00:21
Thank you all so much for listening to the Ikigai Leadership podcast today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a five-star review with comments to let me know what you thought. It really helps me keep on delivering valuable and relevant content to you all. And if you want to connect with me directly, please feel free to do so on my socials. That's @dhrubee, on Twitter, @dhruvabee, on Instagram and LinkedIn, it's linkedin.com/in/dhrubee. Thank you all so much. Take care. Stay safe. Talk to you soon.
