In this episode, Michael speaks with Nathan Truitt, Executive Vice President of Climate Funding for the American Forest Foundation. Nathan works in support of AFF's Family Forest Carbon Program, which it implements in collaboration with the Nature Conservancy. The program is designed to enable small-scale forest landowners to access carbon markets and credits. Together, Michael and Nathan talk about the goals of the program and how it meets the primary challenges that any such program faces, namely ensuring that real and lasting impacts on carbon storage and sequestration are made through the interventions that it supports.

References:

Nathan's background and bio: https://www.forestfoundation.org/who-we-are/people/nathan-truitt/

More information about the Family Forest program: https://www.forestfoundation.org/why-we-do-it/family-forest-blog/

More information about the permanence trust: https://www.forestfoundation.org/permanence-trust/

In this episode, Xavier Basurto, a former guest of the show, joins Michael to interview Fikret Berkes and Nicole Franz. Fikret is Distinguished Professor Emeritus at the Natural Resources Institute of the University of Manitoba. He is a legend in the field of the commons and social-ecological systems, with some of his most well-known works included Sacred Ecology, Coasts for People, and Navigating Social-ecological Systems. Nicole is a Research Scholar at the Center for Ocean Solutions at Stanford University. She has over two decades of experience working in intergovernmental organizations, namely the UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) and the International Fund for Agricultural Development in Rome as well as the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development in Paris

Michael asks Nicole and Fikret’s about their new edited book entitled Governing for transformation towards sustainable small-scale fisheries, which is open access and published by the FAO. The book was written in support of the FAO's Voluntary Guidelines for Securing Sustainable Small-Scale Fisheries, and provides a human-centered, interdisciplinary approach to managing fisheries in a complex world. It addresses challenges like climate change, biodiversity loss, pollution, and privatization by advocating for a shift from top-down, single-species management to cooperative, adaptive governance systems that incorporate the knowledge and needs of resource users. During the interview, Michael and Xavier also take the time to discuss Fikret’s long career as a key contributor to the literatures on the commons, social-ecological systems and small-scale fisheries governance.

References:

Berkes, F. & Franz, N. eds. 2025. Governing for transformation towards sustainable small-scale fisheries. Rome, FAO. https://doi.org/10.4060/cd4289en

Website of the Voluntary Guidelines for Securing Sustainable Small-Scale Fisheries in the Context of Food Security and Poverty Eradication. https://www.fao.org/voluntary-guidelines-small-scale-fisheries/en/

In this episode, Divya speaks with Sean Fox and Gregory Randolph about urbanization and how it is unfolding amid global shocks and affecting inequality.

Sean Fox is a Professor of Geography and Global Development at the University of Bristol. His research focuses on the causes and consequences of global urbanization, the political economy of urban governance, and sustainable city futures.

Gregory Randolph is an Assistant Professor in the School of City and Regional Planning at Georgia Tech. His work focuses on how local economies and urbanization patterns are being reshaped by 21st-century transitions namely technological, energy and demographic transitions, with a particular focus on inequality.

Together, Sean and Gregory offer rich interdisciplinary insights that challenge conventional understandings of urbanization, showing that urbanization is not just about the growth of cities or a straightforward shift from rural to urban. Rather, it's a geo-demographic transformation that is deeply embedded in political, social, and economic processes.

The conversation also sheds light on the hidden stories of urbanization in the global south for example, the stories of migration in the indian state of Bihar where Gregory has been working, deindustrialization, regional divergence, and the hollowing out of labor markets and how these processes contribute to interpersonal and inter-place inequalities.

This episode was recorded at a time when massive wildfires in Los Angeles were making headlines everywhere, prompting a timely question for our guests: What should planners be thinking about as they rebuild cities after disasters?

Both Sean and Gregory voiced serious concern about the increasing frequency and scale of natural disasters and how such events are amplifying pre-existing inequalities. They emphasized that recovery and rebuilding cannot be the task of planners alone. It must also be a political project—one that demands bold, inclusive, and forward-thinking political leadership committed to building cities that account for vulnerability, address structural inequalities, and prioritize resilience for all.

Sean and Gregory are both compelling storytellers, and their work offers a grounded and timely lens on how urbanization is evolving in a world marked by rising uncertainties and deepening inequalities, and I am extremely grateful to have had the opportunity to engage with them and their brilliant & relevant scholarship

References: 

Fox, S., & Goodfellow, T. (2022). On the conditions of ‘late urbanisation’. Urban Studies, 59(10), 1959-1980.

Randolph, G. F., & Currid-Halkett, E. (2022). Planning in the era of regional divergence: place, scale, and development in confronting spatial inequalities. Journal of the American Planning Association, 88(2), 245-252.

Randolph, G. F., & Storper, M. (2023). Is urbanisation in the Global South fundamentally different? Comparative global urban analysis for the 21st century. Urban Studies, 60(1), 3-25.

Fox, S., & Wolf, L. J. (2024). People make places urban. Nature Cities, 1(12), 813-820.

Fox, S., Agyemang, F., Hawker, L., & Neal, J. (2024). Integrating social vulnerability into high-resolution global flood risk mapping. Nature communications, 15(1), 3155.

Randolph, G. F. (2024). Does urbanization depend on in-migration? Demography, mobility, and India's urban transition. Environment and Planning A: Economy and Space, 56(1), 117-135.

Randolph, G. F., & Deuskar, C. (2024). Urbanization beyond the metropolis: Planning for a large number of small places in the global south. Journal of Planning Education and Research, 44(1), 279-291.

Randolph, G. F. (2025). Planning the “Ruralopolis” in India: Circular Migration, Survival Entrepreneurship, and the Subversive Non-Farm Economy. Journal of Planning Education and Research, 45(2), 305-317.

In this episode, Michael speaks with Rachelle Gould, Associate Professor at the Rubenstein School of Environment and Natural Resources and an Environmental Fellow at the Gund Institute at the University of Vermont.

Rachelle is a prominent and productive scholar on several topics, and one of the main ones she has written about is relational values, which were introduced to represent a different way of relating to the environment that hadn’t been expressed by the more traditional dichotomy of intrinsic and extrinsic value. Relational values have become very popular within academia and have become a focal point of publications by the The Intergovernmental Science-Policy Platform on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services, or IPBES, which Rachelle describes as the IPCC for Biodiversity. Rachelle was also a Lead Author on the recent IPBES Values Assessment.

During their conversation, Michael asks Rachelle about some concerns he has about relational values, primarily that it seemed to be so popular that it was becoming a way of labeling anything that we like as relational, and secondly, that it had become a new panacea: something that doesn’t present trade-offs but which we should simply want more of, regardless of context. They discuss these concerns as well as the significant value that Rachelle sees in a concept that can better represent how human beings can and do relate to the natural world.

References:

In this episode, Divya speaks with Saad Gulzar, Associate Professor of Political Science and Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. At the time of recording of this episode, he was at Princeton University and has since moved to Notre Dame.

Gulzar’s research focuses on the politics of development in South Asia and centers on a critical question: How can governments deliver better outcomes for their citizens? His work combines randomized control trials, administrative data, and in-depth qualitative insights to examine how political representation and bureaucracies can become more responsive. The conversation explores Gulzar’s research on the relationship between politicians and bureaucrats, and the conditions under which their collaboration leads to more effective governance.

Gulzar’s findings highlight how the everyday decisions and motivations of these key actors shape the design and delivery of public policy. By uncovering these dynamics, his work offers valuable insights into how governments can better align expectations and improve the delivery of services in people's daily lives.

References:

Gulzar, S., Pathak, D., Thompson, S., & Toth, A. (2025). Can Party Elites Shape the Rank and File? Evidence from a Recruitment Campaign in India. American Political Science Review, 119(2), 812-831.

Gulzar, S., & Khan, M. Y. (2025). Good politicians: Experimental evidence on motivations for political candidacy and government performance. Review of Economic Studies, 92(1), 339-364.

Gulzar, S. (2021). Who enters politics and why?. Annual Review of Political Science, 24(1), 253-275.

Gulzar, S., & Pasquale, B. J. (2017). Politicians, bureaucrats, and development: Evidence from India. American Political Science Review, 111(1), 162-183.

In this episode, Divya speaks with Scott Hardy. Scott is an Extension Educator with the Ohio Sea Grant College Program, where he leads research and runs education and outreach programs on watershed restoration, coastal zone management, and stormwater runoff. He is also an Adjunct Associate Professor of Earth, Environmental, and Planetary Sciences at Case Western Reserve University, where he works on several research projects.

Scott’s work is all about collaboration — bringing people together to solve problems that no one can tackle alone. He knows that collaboration isn’t automatic. It takes time, trust, and spaces where people feel heard and included. He also believes that every place is different, and you need to really understand the local context to make teamwork work. Different projects need different kinds of partnerships, and Scott is skilled at figuring out what each situation needs.

In this episode, they talk about Scott’s ongoing work on Cuyahoga River restoration, where he has been closely collaborating with a wide range of stakeholders ranging from state agencies to industry to local communities. They also talk about his recent experience as a Fulbright Specialist at the Universidad de Atacama in Copiapó, Chile, where he was invited to share his expertise on sustainable water management. 

References: 

Hardy, S. D. (2022). Power to the people: Collaborative watershed management in the Cuyahoga River Area of Concern (AOC). Environmental Science & Policy, 129, 79-86.

Hardy, S. D. (2022). Transaction costs for collaboration in the watershed management of the Cuyahoga River Area of Concern. Regional Sustainability, 3(2), 146-156.

https://u.osu.edu/hardy.116/

Koontz, T. M. (2002). Federalism in the forest: National versus state natural resource policy. Georgetown University Press.

In this episode, Michael speaks with Nate Dominy, the Charles Hansen Professor of Anthropology at Dartmouth College. Nate is a biological anthropologist and an evolutionary biologist, studying the behavior, ecology, and functional morphology of humans and nonhuman primates. Nate speaks with Michael about his new research program on the role of fire in promoting social cohesion among humans. Fire is argued to have played an important role in human evolutionary history, and there are multiple mechanisms that have been hypothesized for how it could promote cohesion, including its rhythmic nature (its flicker rate), and its ability to enable storytelling, which itself is known to facilitate an increased sense of belonging and togetherness. This topic is an important complement to more traditional commons and institutional studies discussed on this podcast, which largely focus on how rules and norms can promote collective action and other outcomes.

References:

Nate’s website: https://anthropology.dartmouth.edu/people/nathaniel-j-dominy

Dunbar R.I.M., Gowlett J.A.J. 2014 Fireside chat: the impact of fire on hominin socioecology. In Lucy to Language: The Benchmark Papers (eds. Dunbar R.I.M., Gamble C., Gowlett J.A.J.), pp. 277–296. Oxford, Oxford University Press.

Lynn C.D. 2014 Hearth and campfire influences on arterial blood pressure: defraying the costs of the social brain through fireside relaxation. Evolutionary Psychology 12(5), 983-1003. (doi:10.1177/147470491401200509).

Wiessner P.W. 2014 Embers of society: firelight talk among the Ju/’hoansi bushmen. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA 111(39), 14027-14035. (doi:10.1073/pnas.1404212111).

In this episode, Michael speaks with Maron Greenleaf, assistant professor of anthropology at Dartmouth College. They discuss Maron’s recently published book, Forest Lost: Producing Green Capitalism in the Brazilian Amazon, in which she examines a set of carbon offset programs in the Brazilian state of Acre. Unlike traditional forest commodities that require extraction, carbon offsets monetize forest protection by paying communities to keep carbon stored in standing trees. Based on extensive ethnographic fieldwork, Maron describes how forest carbon markets and offsets can be unexpectedly inclusive, providing economic opportunities for marginalized communities, while simultaneously reinforcing some of the inequalities they claim to address. Maron uses this study to illuminate broader questions about whether market-based solutions can effectively address environmental crises. Her work suggests that while green capitalism offers compelling possibilities for reconciling economic growth with environmental protection, it also reproduces some of the structural problems inherent in capitalist systems.

References:

Maron’s website: https://www.marongreenleaf.com/forest-lost

Greenleaf, M. (2024). Forest Lost: Producing Green Capitalism in the Brazilian Amazon. Duke University 

Press. https://dukeupress.edu/forest-lost

Ferguson, J. (1994). The anti-politics machine:’development’, depoliticization and bureaucratic power in 

Lesotho. University of Minnesota Press.

In this episode, Michael speaks with Jake Kheel, Vice President of Sustainability at the Grupo Puntacana Foundation, a non-profit organization located in the Dominican Republic. The Foundation is funded in large part by Grupo Puntacana, a major tourism company in Punta Cana, which is the most well-known tourism destination in the DR. As background, Michael met Jake some years ago through Michael's longtime collaborator, Freddie Payton, who runs the Dominican NGO AgroFrontera in the province of Montecristi on the other side of the country.

Jake and Michael discuss Jake’s 2021 book, Waking the Sleeping Giant: Unlocking the Hidden Power of Business to Save the Planet. In the book Jake describes his experiences working in Punta Cana, and the efforts that he and his colleagues have made to address numerous social and environmental issues, including overfishing, coral degradation, invasive seaweed, waste disposal, and water management. Jake and Michael discuss the reasons behind the successes of the Foundation, including the presence of local champions who invest in a particular place and its problems for the long term, which may be less glamorous but is critical for enduring success.

References

Jake’s website: https://www.jakekheel.com/

Kheel, J. 2021. Waking the sleeping giant : unlocking the hidden power of business to save the planet. Lioncrest Publishing.

In this episode, Divya interviews Usman Ashraf, a PhD student at the Helsinki Institute of Sustainability Sciences at the University of Helsinki. His research focuses on forest governance and the complexities of the implementation of development policies in Pakistan. This discussion centers around Usman’s report on Pakistan’s ambitious "10 Billion Tree Tsunami" project, titled "Participation and Exclusion in a Mega-Tree Planting Project in Pakistan." The conversation explores how this massive reforestation initiative, aimed at combating climate change, has inadvertently disrupted the lives and livelihoods of the nomadic herder communities in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province.

Usman explains how the long-standing relationship between Pashtun landowners and the nomadic goat-herding communities has been disturbed by government incentives to plant trees, fundamentally altering these traditional dynamics. This episode goes beyond academic discussion to provide a deep dive into the real-world implications of climate mitigation projects on marginalized communities. Usman’s ethnographic insights reveal how large-scale plantation projects, often driven by political motives, can have significant ecological, social, and economic consequences.

Overall, the conversation highlights the complexities of such initiatives in the Global South, emphasizing the need to consider both ecological and socio-economic factors to ensure that development projects are genuinely sustainable and equitable.