Today I have the pleasure of interviewing Ismael Kherroubi Garcia, the Founder & CEO of Kairoi, the AI Ethics & Research Governance Consultancy; the Founder of the Responsible Artificial Intelligence Network (RAIN) organised by Fellows of the RSA; and Associate Director of We and AI, promoting AI literacy for social inclusion. Ismael’s work in responsible AI has allowed him to draw on his diverse experiences, having worked across fintech, museums, theatre and academia, in sales, human resources and research; and at organisations as diverse as Bloomberg, the Royal Opera House and NASA.

Ismael's training in Business Management and Philosophy of the Social Sciences now informs practical but nuanced approaches to how businesses innovate whilst communicating and adhering to their own values. A key tenet of his work is to advocate for a form of humility that encourages us to bring in voices from different backgrounds where we find gaps in our own understandings. The results are ways of working grounded in meaningful collaborations across organisational departments and with different stakeholders.

Ismael’s work in responsible AI has meant developing AI frameworks and practices across sectors, from charities and universities, to standards development organisations and government bodies. Underpinning all his work is Kairoi’s AI Ethics Canvas and the Four Pillars of Responsible AI for organisational practices: better communications, relevant technical standards, meaningful public engagement and robust governance.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Nathalie Nahai and Ismael Kherroubi Garcia explore the complexities of artificial intelligence and its ethical implications. They discuss Ismael's journey into AI ethics, the importance of defining AI, and the need for public engagement through storytelling. The conversation highlights the challenges of data quality, the risks of deploying AI without proper consideration, and the societal pressures surrounding AI adoption. They emphasise the role of organisations in shaping responsible AI practices and the necessity of critical thinking in the face of AI hype.

WEBSITES

https://kairoi.uk/  

https://weandai.org/

https://www.turing.ac.uk/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ismaelkherroubi/

BOOKS & RESOURCES

The AI Con (https://thecon.ai/) – Dr. Emily M. Bender & Dr. Alex Hanna

AI Snake Oil (https://www.aisnakeoil.com/) – Prof. Arvind Narayanan & Sayash Kapoor

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction to AI and Ethics

05:03 Defining AI: Tools and Research

11:00 Using Stories to Engage with AI

17:06 The Role of AI in Creativity

23:05 The Alienation of Work and AI

37:50 AI Tools and Their Impact on Society

49:53 Challenges in AI Deployment

01:00:26 Navigating AI in the Workplace

Today I speak with Neil Lawrence, the inaugural DeepMind Professor of Machine Learning at the University of Cambridge, a senior AI Fellow at The Alan Turing Institute, and visiting Professor of Machine Learning at the University of Sheffield.

Co-host of Talking Machines, Neil has over 20 years’ experience in machine learning models, and his technical expertise focuses on uncertainty and machine learning methods. Having recently returned to academia after three years as Director of Machine Learning at Amazon, Neil now leads Cambridge University’s flagship mission on AI, ai@cam – and his new book, The Atomic Human, seeks to reset the conversation around artificial intelligence, contrasting our capabilities with machine intelligence, and revealing the technical origins, capabilities and limitations of AI systems, and how they should be wielded.

With the increased impact of machine learning in society, in particular its use as the principal technology underpinning modern artificial intelligence, Neil has also become interested in the public understanding and policy decisions of machine learning, and the implications for data governance.

As well as his departmental roles he serves on the board of the conference AISTATS and the ELLIS Foundation, and as the founding and series editor for the Proceedings of Machine Learning Research.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Nathalie Nahai speaks with Neil Lawrence about the implications of artificial intelligence on society, democracy, and human agency. They explore the risks of digital tyranny, the importance of understanding machine learning, and the need for effective legislation to ensure online safety. Lawrence introduces the concept of the 'Atomic Human,' emphasizing the unique qualities that define humanity in the face of advancing technology. In this conversation, the speakers explore the quest for meaning in a world increasingly dominated by technology and productivity metrics. They discuss the intersection of technology and spirituality, emphasizing the importance of human experience and connection. The dialogue also addresses the challenges faced by modern society, including the need for optimism and empowerment in the face of existential threats. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the necessity of finding beauty and meaning in everyday life, even during dark times.

WEBSITE

https://inverseprobability.com/

https://ai.cam.ac.uk/

BOOKS & RESOURCES

Book: The Atomic Human – Neil Lawrence (https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/455130/the-atomic-human-by-lawrence-neil-d/9780241625248)

Research: Proceedings of Machine Learning Research - https://proceedings.mlr.press/  

Podcast: https://www.thetalkingmachines.com/

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction to AI and Human Agency

02:40 The State of Democracy and Digital Tyranny

10:48 The Impact of Digital Tools on Society

17:36 Legislation and Online Safety

22:29 The Atomic Human: Understanding Our Unique Qualities

40:15 The Quest for Meaning in a Technological Age

49:13 The Intersection of Technology and Spirituality

57:40 Navigating the Challenges of Modern Society

01:12:47 Finding Optimism in Dark Times

In this conversation, I speak with Dr. Margaret Heffernan – a renowned entrepreneur, CEO, keynote speaker and author, and professor of Practice at the University of Bath’s School of Management.

Having produced programmes for the BBC in the UK for 13 years, Margaret moved to the US where she spearheaded multimedia productions for Intuit, The Learning Company and Standard & Poors. She was Chief Executive of InfoMation Corporation, ZineZone Corporation and then iCast Corporation, was named one of the “Top 25” by Streaming Media magazine and one of the “Top 100 Media Executives” by The Hollywood Reporter. Lead Faculty for the Forward Institute’s Responsible Leadership Programme, Margaret also mentors CEOs and senior executives of major global organizations through Merryck & Co., and she chairs the board of DACS.

The author of seven books, Margaret’s third book, Willful Blindness : Why We Ignore the Obvious at our Peril was named one of the most important business books of the decade by the Financial Times. In 2015, she was awarded the Transmission Prize for A Bigger Prize: Why Competition isn’t Everything and How We Do Better, which was described as “meticulously researched…engagingly written…universally relevant and hard to fault.” Her TED talks have been seen by over 13 million people and in 2015 TED published Beyond Measure: The Big Impact of Small Changes.

Her penultimate book, Uncharted: How to map the future was published in 2020, and quickly became a bestseller – not only was it nominated for the Financial Times Best Business Book award, it was also one of Bloomberg’s Best Books of 2021 and was chosen as the “Medium Best of the Best” business book. In 2024, she was inducted into the Thinkers50 Hall of Fame, in recognition of her lasting impact on management thinking.

Her new book, Embracing Uncertainty - How Writers, Musicians & Artists Thrive in an Unpredictable World, has just been published, and it’s some of these poignant themes that we’ll be exploring in our conversation today.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, Nathalie Nahai and Margaret Heffernan discuss navigating uncertainty in our data-driven world, emphasizing imagination and creativity in leadership. Their dialogue explores the value of taking time to think and balancing thought with action, while highlighting how diverse experiences foster creativity. They advocate for embracing unpredictability rather than seeking certainty, and examine the complex relationship between AI, creativity, and human experience. The conversation touches on how neoliberal economics has affected individualism and artistic expression, while emphasizing the importance of personal anchors, literature, and art. Throughout their exchange, they reflect on finding meaning through curiosity and rest, and the significance of making small but meaningful contributions to humanity, illustrated by the hummingbird parable. Their conversation ultimately explores how we can flourish amid uncertainty by nurturing creativity and maintaining meaningful connections.

WEBSITES

www.mheffernan.com

TED Talks: https://www.ted.com/talks/margaret_heffernan_the_human_skills_we_need_in_an_unpredictable_world

BOOKS

Embracing Uncertainty - How writers, musicians & artists thrive in an unpredictable world – Margaret Heffernan (https://www.mheffernan.com/book-embracinguncertainty.php)

Willful Blindness : Why We Ignore the Obvious at our Peril – Margaret Heffernan (https://www.mheffernan.com/book-wilfulblindness.php)

A Bigger Prize: Why Competition isn’t Everything and How We Do Better – Margaret Heffernan (https://www.mheffernan.com/book-abiggerprize.php)

Beyond Measure: The Big Impact of Small Changes – Margaret Heffernan / TED (https://www.mheffernan.com/book-beyondmeasure.php)

Uncharted: How to map the future – Margaret Heffernan (https://www.mheffernan.com/book-uncharted.php)

CHAPTERS

00:00 Navigating Uncertainty in the Global Psyche

02:59 The Role of Creativity in a Data-Driven World

05:50 Embracing Imagination and Unpredictability

09:07 The Importance of Thinking Time

11:59 The Need for Action in Leadership

14:56 Balancing Thought and Action

17:56 Cultivating Creativity in a Technological Age

20:59 Finding Meaning in Diverse Experiences

23:59 The Art of Time Management

31:34 Crafting a Creative Routine

33:05 The Nature of Creativity and AI

41:05 The Human Experience in Art

47:35 Navigating Uncertainty and Creativity

52:54 The Impact of Neoliberal Economics on Creativity

57:37 Embracing Change and Unpredictability

As we approach the longest night in the North, I’m delighted to share with you what has become a cherished tradition of reflection, contemplation, and looking ahead to the year to come. In this conversation, I rejoin Manda Scott and Della Duncan for a collaborative midwinter offering from myself, Accidental Gods, and the Upstream Podcast.

From the questions we’re holding and the highlight’s we’re taking from the year, to the gifts we’d like to share with one another and with you as we cross the threshold into 2025, this is a ritual that I’ve come to really look forward to, and I hope you find it as uplifting as I do.

As always, Manda will close with a guided solstice meditation, the 7 Generations Perspective, which you can find over at Accidental Gods.

To introduced my companions…

Manda Scott is a novelist, podcaster and smallholder. Formerly a veterinary surgeon, Manda’s novels have been shortlisted for the Orange Prize, the Edgar and the Saltire Award and has won the McIlvanney Prize. She is host of the Accidental Gods podcast, which showcases individuals and organisations at the emerging edge of our world, to set the foundation for a future we’d be proud to leave to the generations that come after us.

We’re joined by Della Duncan, a Renegade Economist based in the San Francisco Bay Area. She is a co-host of the Upstream Podcast, a Right Livelihood Coach, a faculty member at the California Institute of Integral Studies, a Senior Fellow at the London School of Economics, a founding member of the California Doughnut Economics Coalition, and the designer and co-facilitator of the Cultivating Regenerative Livelihood Course at Gaia Education.

This is always a special episode for me, and I’m very grateful to be able to dive into conversation with these two brilliant women. I hope you find it inviting and inspiring, and I wish you a peaceful Winter Solstice and a fruitful new year.

SUMMARY

In this enlightening conversation, Manda Scott, Della Duncan, and Nathalie Nahai reflect on their podcasting journey over the past year, sharing insights on the themes of conscious evolution, anti-capitalism, and the ethical implications of technology. They explore the importance of community, personal growth, and the interconnectedness of all life, while also addressing the urgent need for systemic change in the face of ecological and social crises. The discussion culminates in a collective inquiry into how to foster a more compassionate and equitable world, emphasizing the role of individual and collective action in shaping a sustainable future.

KEY THEMES

·      The role of imperialism in capitalism

·      The importance of community and connection in activism

·      Conscious evolution requires a shift in values and worldview

·      Understanding the complexities of technology and its impact on society

·      The need for systemic change to address ecological crises

·      Personal practices can help maintain balance and well-being

·      Recognizing the interconnectedness of all life is crucial

·      Anti-capitalist strategies must consider the implications for all

·      Art and creativity are essential in the age of AI

·      Hope and resilience can emerge from collective action

WEBSITES

Manda

·      https://mandascott.co.uk/

·      https://accidentalgods.life/

·      https://thrutopia.life/

·      https://thrutopia.life/

Della

·      https://caldec.org/

·      https://www.upstreampodcast.org/

·      https://www.dellazduncan.com/

RESOURCES

·      Down the Rabbit Hole: https://charliebennettauthor.co.uk/shop

·      Transformative Adaptation: https://shop.permaculture.co.uk/products/transformative-adaptation

·      How to Be an An Anticapitalist in the Twenty-first Century: https://www.versobooks.com/en-gb/products/933-how-to-be-an-anticapitalist-in-the-twenty-first-century?srsltid=AfmBOoq4Q9LtVqpS7BkvtrBsQwBW3eHwnbD9SKoDXxt-rT9_2BL1DdE

·      God, Human, Animal, Machine: https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/god-human-animal-machine-technology-metaphor-and-the-search-for-meaning-meghan-o-gieblyn/5885978?ean=9780525562719

The Psychological Drivers of the MetaCrisis: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-psychological-drivers-of-the-metacrisis/id1680606350?i=1000639851812

In this final episode of the season, I speak with Joanna Kavenna - an English novelist, essayist and travel writer of Welsh extraction, who has written six books which explore themes of history, travel, reality and society.

Having grown up in Britain, and lived in the US, France, Germany, China, Sri Lanka, Scandinavia, Italy and the Baltic states, Joanna is the author of several critically acclaimed works of fiction and nonfiction, including The Ice Museum, Inglorious, Come to the Edge, A Field Guide to Reality and – most recently - Zed. Her novel Inglorious won the Orange Award for New Writing, and her novel The Birth of Love was longlisted for the Orange Prize.

Joanna’s writing has appeared in The New Yorker, London Review of Books, The New York Times and many other publications, and she was named as one of the Telegraph’s Best Writers under 40 in 2010 and as one of Granta's Best of Young British Novelists in 2013. She has also held the Alistair Horne Fellowship at St Antony’s College Oxford and the Harper-Wood at St John’s College Cambridge.

I first came across Joanna at a philosophy festival in London over the summer, called How The Light Gets In, and I had the pleasure of hearing her speak on a panel about technology, society and the future. I was mesmerised by her shimmering, constellated and poetic way of thinking and speaking, and I couldn’t resist asking if she might join me on the show. Luckily for me (and for you) she said yes, and I’m excited to share this wide-ranging conversation with you today!

SUMMARY

In this conversation, we explore the historical implications of technological advancements, the ethical considerations surrounding data usage, and the importance of agency and cognitive liberty. We touch on the nature of reality, the search for beauty in dark times, and the need for hope and resilience amidst societal challenges. Ultimately, we emphasise the necessity for participatory democracy and ethical frameworks in shaping the future of technology.

KEY THEMES

·      AI is a reflection of the global human psyche.

·      The historical context of technology influences art and society.

·      Data usage without consent raises ethical concerns.

·      Emerging technologies can lead to both progress and peril.

·      Agency is crucial in navigating a tech-driven world.

·      Cognitive liberty is essential for personal autonomy.

·      AI can simulate human interaction but lacks true consciousness.

·      Reality is often distorted by technological representations.

·      Finding beauty in everyday moments can foster resilience.

·      Hope is vital in facing the challenges of modern life.

WEBSITES

http://www.joannakavenna.com/

BOOKS & OTHER RESOURCES

Zed – Joanna Kavenna (http://www.joannakavenna.com/zed/)

We – Eugene Zamiatin (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/76171.We)

Picnic Comma Lightning – Laurence Scott (https://amzn.to/4fKGnpW)

History for Tomorrow – Roman Krznaric (https://amzn.to/3YOGtWI)

Panel on AI ethics – https://royalinstitutephilosophy.org/event/is-ethical-ai-a-fantasy/

MUSIC

https://nathalienahai.hearnow.com/

CHAPTERS

00:00 Exploring the Global Human Psyche

05:52 Historical Context of Technology and Art

11:54 Cognitive Liberty and Data Privacy

17:30 The Role of Participatory Democracy

23:09 The Future of Human Interaction with Technology

30:21 The Humanization of AI and Its Implications

36:52 Chaos, Control, and the Essence of Being Human

43:07 The Dangers of Digital Gaslighting

50:18 Legislative Change and the Fight for Digital Rights

56:41 Surveillance Technology and Control

01:03:41 The Future of Technology and Society

This week, I’m speaking with Elliott Young, the Chief Technology Officer at Dell Technologies for EMEA, whose role focuses on supporting chief experience officers in leveraging Generative AI for business results. Having been a pilot, a solutions architect, and a consultant, he now leads the development of cutting-edge AI and multicloud strategies to drive digital transformation across industries.

With a focus on simplifying AI and cloud adoption within business transformations, Elliott and his team work to help companies of all sizes - from large enterprises to mid-sized organisations - not only to optimise and create a competitive advantage with Generative AI, but also to develop entirely new business models that embrace this technology.

With all of the conferences I’ve had the privilege of speaking at this year, exploring the complex place at which promise and perils of AI meet the hopes and fears of humanity, I was excited to have this opportunity to dig into some of the business challenges and applications that AI offers us in this moment.

I’m also delighted to say that I’ll be speaking on a panel at Dell Technologies Forum in London, on the 26th November, and I’d love it if you’d join me.

If you’re curious about innovation and the role AI plays in driving technological advancements, or you want to learn more about how AI-integrated solutions can reveal deeper insights from data, enhance productivity and inspire new ways of doing business, this is for you.

Join me in London on Tuesday the 26th November, where I’ll be bringing a humanistic perspective as to how we can harness AI in a way that enriches and supports our individual and collective agency, wellbeing and the flourishing of healthy organisational cultures.

The link to register is in the shownotes below: https://bit.ly/DTF_NN

SUMMARY

In this conversation, we explore the intersection of emerging technologies, particularly generative AI, and its implications for society, business, and governance. We discuss the rapid advancements in technology showcased at Gitex and the responsibilities of businesses in implementing these technologies responsibly, as well as the challenges of keeping up with the pace of change, ensuring oversight in complex systems, and navigating the Gartner hype cycle. As well as practical strategies organisations can adopt to effectively integrate AI into their operations, we also discuss the transformative potential of generative AI across various sectors, particularly healthcare, from the integration of AI in existing systems, to the role of robotic process automation, and the importance of resilience in digital infrastructures.

KEY THEMES

• Generative AI is reshaping how we think about technology and its applications.

• Emerging technologies can enable communities to leapfrog traditional infrastructures.

• The role of businesses in responsible tech is crucial for societal impact.

• Organisations must prioritize ongoing education about AI for their employees.

• Trusting employees with access to AI tools can foster innovation.

• The Gartner hype cycle illustrates the fluctuating expectations of AI technologies.

• Implementing 'hero AI' can demonstrate the potential of generative AI to employees.

• Oversight mechanisms are necessary to ensure responsible AI usage.

• Robotic process automation serves as a bridge for AI integration.

• Organisations need robust backup plans for digital failures.

• AI agents will transform job roles and responsibilities.

WEBSITES

https://bit.ly/DTF_NN

BOOKS & OTHER RESOURCES

https://www.gitex.com/

MUSIC

https://nathalienahai.hearnow.com/

CHAPTERS

00:00 Emerging Technologies at Gitex

03:10 The Global Human Psyche and AI

06:04 Generative AI: Opportunities and Challenges

08:55 Business Responsibilities in Tech

11:45 Oversight and Transparency in AI

15:08 The Hype Cycle of Generative AI

18:00 Implementing AI in Organisations

23:47 Exploring Generative AI in Business Processes

30:03 The Role of AI in Crisis Management

35:14 Navigating the Future of Work with AI

41:40 Harnessing AI for Societal Benefits

Today I’m in conversation with Tami Rosen - a recognised thought leader, influencer and senior executive in HR, who has spent her career transforming the impact of Human Resources as a senior executive for some of the world’s most recognized companies, including Goldman Sachs, Apple, Luminar Technologies, Atlassian, and, most recently, Pagaya, where she currently holds the title of Chief People Officer and leads a dynamic workforce of over 750+ across Israel and the United States.

Passionate about philanthropy, coaching, mentoring and helping the future generation of leaders, Tami embodies a leadership style steeped in inclusivity and innovation. She has pioneered groundbreaking initiatives focused on the advancement of underrepresented communities, from establishing Wall Street's inaugural, award-winning LGBTQ+ Ally Program at Goldman Sachs, to designing the framework for Atlassian's 'TEAM Anywhere' program that has redefined remote work paradigms. Her contribution to Pagaya is cemented in the company's foundational value: 'Culture of Learning,' which centralises learning and education in all aspects of the organisation.

Tami's visionary perspective goes beyond viewing people as a company's most valuable asset; instead, she sees HR as a disruptive technology and innovative force that drives business operations and capabilities beyond the imaginable. Her forward-thinking approach positions HR as a catalyst for transformative change, shaping the future of organizations – which is exactly what drew me to speaking with her today.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, we explore the importance of embracing change and fostering a culture of continuous learning within organisations. Tami also discusses the role of AI in enhancing financial inclusion, while acknowledging the challenges and ethical considerations that come with its implementation. The conversation touches on the significance of feedback, resilience, and the need for human connection in the workplace, ultimately framing flourishing as a personal journey guided by one's passions and adaptability.

KEY THEMES

·      Embracing change can lead to opportunities.

·      Continuous learning is essential for personal and organizational growth.

·      AI can enhance financial inclusion but comes with challenges.

·      People strategy must align with business strategy for success.

·      Feedback is a crucial tool for personal development.

·      Resilience is built through learning from failures.

·      Flourishing requires a clear sense of direction and control.

·      Flexibility in work arrangements is increasingly expected.

·      Music and the arts can provide solace and inspiration during tough times.

WEBSITES

https://pagaya.com/

BOOKS & OTHER RESOURCES

Song Exploder (Podcast) - https://bit.ly/4aQ3HAe

MUSIC

https://nathalienahai.hearnow.com/

CHAPTERS

06:03 Challenges and Embracing Change

12:02 Pagaya: Using AI to Make Financial Opportunities More Accessible

16:06 Challenges and Pitfalls of AI in Finance

21:27 AI's Impact on Creativity and Imagination

24:12 Flourishing in a Time of Acceleration and Disruption

27:03 The Impact of AI on Jobs and Business Longevity

31:24 Mistakes Tech Companies Make in Business Longevity

34:48 Creating Cultures that Enable People to Flourish

37:19 Flexibility in Work Schedules

39:00 Balancing Employee Care and Business Continuity

39:41 Humanizing Tech and Setting Expectations

40:43 Creating a Learning Culture

42:33 Exploring AI and Embracing its Potential

43:55 The Role of AI in Personal and Professional Growth

46:48 The Value of Feedback and Self-Reflection

48:18 Practices for Navigating Turmoil

52:36 Orienting Towards Life and Beauty on Dark Days

53:51 Finding Freedom in Music and Creativity

54:54 Roots and Anchors: Family and Living Each Day

This week, I have the pleasure of interviewing Roman Krznaric, a social philosopher, writer, and public intellectual who writes about the power of ideas to create change. A former political scientist, Roman has become a leading voice in the realm of practical philosophy, urging individuals and societies to prioritise future generations in our decision-making.

A Senior Research Fellow at Oxford University’s Centre for Eudaimonia and Human Flourishing, and co-founder of The School of Life, Roman is also the founder of the world’s first Empathy Museum, a series of participatory art projects dedicated to helping us look at the world through other people’s eyes.

Renowned for his work on empathy and long-term thinking, Roman’s writing has been widely influential amongst political and ecological campaigners, education reformers, social entrepreneurs and designers, and he has been featured in major media outlets from the The Guardian and BBC to The New York Times.

A member of the Club of Rome and a Research Fellow of the Long Now Foundation, Roman’s latest book, History for Tomorrow: Inspiration from the Past for the Future of Humanity (2024), explores how lessons from the past can inspire new ways of thinking about the future to guide more ethical, regenerative actions.

I first came across Roman’s work a few years ago through his best-selling book, The Good Ancestor: How to Think Long Term in a Short-Term World (2020), and I found it so moving and capivating that I really wanted to bring him onto the show today to share his insights and vision with you.

SUMMARY

In this conversation, we explore the interconnectedness of time and humanity, and the role of radical revolt and Asabiya in societal change. We discuss the impact of technology on social connections, the importance of biophilia, conviviality and crisis response, and the necessity of transformative change through disruptive movements. Our dialogue emphasises the need for hope, meaning, and the reweaving of social fabric in a rapidly changing world.

KEY THEMES

·      The global human psyche is interconnected with the planetary psyche.

·      Understanding our relationship with time is crucial for societal progress.

·      Radical revolts have historically led to significant societal changes.

·      Technology can both exacerbate and alleviate societal issues.

·      Reweaving social connections is essential for community resilience.

·      Biophilia fosters a deeper connection with the living world.

·      Crisis response is vital for navigating contemporary challenges.

·      Disruptive movements are necessary for transformative change.

·      Hope can be drawn from historical successes in overcoming crises.

·      Meaningful life is built on relationships, autonomy, and purpose.

WEBSITES

https://www.romankrznaric.com/

BOOKS & OTHER RESOURCES

History For Tomorrow – Roman Krznaric (https://www.romankrznaric.com/history-for-tomorrow)

The Good Ancestor – Roman Krznaric (https://www.romankrznaric.com/good-ancestor)

Carpe Diem – Roman Krznaric (https://www.romankrznaric.com/carpe-diem-regained)

Time Rebels – VPRO Documentary (video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpmHKpyqpcU&ab_channel=vprodocumentary)

MUSIC

https://nathalienahai.hearnow.com/

CHAPTERS

00:00 Exploring the Global Human Psyche

02:32 The Interconnectedness of Life

05:36 Temporal Intelligence and Our Relationship with Time

08:28 Radical Revolt and Societal Change

11:33 The Role of Technology in Change

14:48 Art and Creativity as Catalysts for Change

17:50 Building Community and Social Fabric

20:42 Biophilia and Crisis Response

23:33 Hope and Action in the Face of Adversity

26:47 Rituals and Anchors in Daily Life

29:35 Reflections on Change and Belonging

32:44 The Importance of Connection and Solidarity

35:39 Navigating Change and Finding Purpose

38:30 The Power of Disruption and Collective Action

41:46 Lessons from History for Future Generations

44:40 Final Thoughts on Being a Good Ancestor

On this episode of In Conversation, I speak with Stephen Markley – an American journalist, screenwriter and author whose gripping novels explore the tangled political, economic and environmental issues we face across the world today.

Born and raised in Mount Vernon, Ohio, Stephen’s Midwestern roots permeate his writing, and his debut novel, Ohio, garnered critical acclaim for its vivid portrayal of a Rust Belt town and its residents grappling with the aftermath of the Iraq War, economic decline, and personal trauma.

In 2023, he published The Deluge, an ambitious behemoth of a novel set in the near future, which tackles the urgent issue of climate change and its manifold impacts on society. Described by Stephen King  as “prophetic, terrifying, uplifting”, it was named by The New York Times as one of the 100 Notable Books of 2023, and reviewed as “realistic and nuanced, grim but playful.”

Having been interviewed on Late Night with Seth Myers and at book launches by Chris Pine, Robbie Orvis and Dan Fogelman, Stephen has become one of the leading literary figures in the US and beyond to give voice to the complicated, distressing and at times redemptive forces at play in the scientific, climatic and geopolitical realms.

This was a provocative, thoughtful and surprising conversation for me, and I hope you find it both sobering and uplifting.

SUMMARY

The conversation explores the global human psyche in the face of the climate crisis and the role of literature in inspiring action. It dives into the importance of finding joy and hope amidst the challenges, the power of community and face-to-face interactions, and the dangers of social media and surveillance capitalism. We also touch on the potential of technology, the need for a balance between hope and fear, and the role of culture in shaping our perspectives. We talk about Stephen’s most recent book, 'The Deluge,' and how it address the ways in which we might navigate the current crisis and create a more just and prosperous future. As both of us are authors (albeit of different genres), we talk about the psychological toll of writing about challenging topics, the importance of finding joy and balance in life, and the power of creativity. We also explore the need for humility and open-mindedness in conversations, the value of boredom and imagination, and the impact of the attention economy on our mental well-being.

KEY THEMES

•  Finding joy and hope is crucial in the face of the climate crisis.

•  Community and face-to-face interactions play a vital role in addressing the challenges.

•  Social media and surveillance capitalism have negatively impacted our sense of community and purpose.

•  Technology, such as AI, can be both beneficial and authoritarian, requiring careful consideration.

•  Literature and culture have the power to emotionally engage and inspire action.

•  Balancing hope and fear is essential in motivating people to address the climate crisis. Writing about challenging topics can take a psychological toll, and it's important to find joy and balance in life.

•  Creativity is a powerful tool for self-expression and personal growth, regardless of whether it becomes a career.

•  The attention economy and constant connectivity can negatively impact our mental well-being, and it's important to create boundaries and cultivate boredom and imagination.

•  Humility and open-mindedness are essential in conversations, as they allow for growth and understanding.

•  Diverse perspectives and questioning assumptions are vital for personal and societal growth.

•  Finding hope and reflecting on the long view of history can provide perspective and motivation in challenging times.

WEBSITES

https://www.stephenmarkley.com/

BOOKS & OTHER RESOURCES

The Deluge – Stephen Markley (https://www.stephenmarkley.com/the-deluge)

Ohio – Stephen Markley (https://www.stephenmarkley.com/ohio)

Tales of Iceland – Stephen Markley (https://www.stephenmarkley.com/tales-of-iceland)

Publish This Book – Stephen Markley (https://www.stephenmarkley.com/publish-this-book)

MUSIC

https://nathalienahai.hearnow.com/

CHAPTERS

00:00 Exploring the Global Human Psyche

12:07 Finding Joy and Hope in the Midst of Challenges

18:43 The Dangers of Social Media and Surveillance Capitalism

21:52 The Potential and Pitfalls of Technology

26:31 The Role of Literature and Culture in Inspiring Action

29:22 Animating Science and Balancing Hope and Fear

31:42 The Motivations Behind Writing 'The Deluge'

35:20 The Psychological Toll of Writing and Finding Joy in Life

41:21 Humility and Open-Mindedness in Conversations

45:52 The Impact of the Attention Economy on Mental Well-being

51:25 The Intrinsic Rewards of Creative Pursuits

55:00 Diverse Perspectives and Questioning Assumptions

01:01:29 Finding Hope and Reflecting on the Long View of History

Today I’m in conversation with Rachel Donald, an investigative journalist and activist dedicated to uncovering the root causes of global crises and advocating for change.

With a background in managing international teams and teaching media and journalism at French universities, Rachel’s work focuses on what she terms "climate corruption"—the exploitation of natural resources at the expense of the environment and marginalised communities.

Driven by a passion for climate advocacy, combating corruption, and storytelling, Rachel is perhaps best-known for her compelling podcast ‘Planet Critical’, a powerful series that explores pressing issues surrounding global energy, economics, and ecology.

Her work and writing have featured in major publications, often serving to illuminate the gaslighting tactics that sustain exploitative systems, and her articles serve to connect the dots into a broader, more complex and complete narrative.

A sought-after speaker at conferences, Rachel is currently authoring her debut book on the theme of violence, drawing from her extensive experience in print, online, and radio journalism.

This episode has been a while in the making, but I’m really delighted to be able to share this conversation with you today. And if you’d like to find out more about Rachel’s work, check out her podcast and writing, the links for which are in the shownotes below.

SUMMARY

In this episode of In Conversation, we explore the concept of flourishing and the risks and opportunities facing us in the world today. From eco-fascism, authoritarianism, and the dangers of unregulated AI, to decreasing crop yields and mass migration, we discuss the need for adaptation and resilience in the face of a rapidly changing world.

We also shed light on the green shoots of change, including the use of social media for radical information sharing ,the embrace of local economies and sustainable practices, and the need for social friction and curiosity in order to create connections and foster hope.

Rachel raises some thoughtful, provocative challenges to the ways in which we love one another under patriarchy, and unpacks the lack of language and understanding around love. We also explore the importance of understanding where traditions and societal norms come from and how we might better understand and align our actions with the values we hold dear.

KEY THEMES

•  The global human psyche is experiencing a recognition of pain and empathy, leading to a desire for change and a sense of global scream.

•  Flourishing involves a willingness to embrace decay and death as part of a cycle, and to accept the otherness that comes with it.

•  The risks in the world include eco-fascism, authoritarianism, and the dangers of unregulated AI.

•  Adaptation and resilience are necessary in the face of challenges such as decreasing crop yields and mass migration.

•  Shoots of hope can be found in the use of social media for radical information sharing and the embrace of local economies and sustainable practices. Building relationships and engaging in meaningful conversations are essential for creating connections and fostering hope.

•  Social friction and curiosity are important for generating newness, creativity, and love.

•  Loving one another under patriarchy is challenging due to power dynamics and the lack of understanding and language around love.

•  Understanding the origins of traditions and aligning actions with values can lead to more fulfilling relationships.

•  On dark days, finding beauty and resilience in laughter, feeling deeply, and holding the bigger picture can provide strength and hope.

WEBSITES

https://www.planetcritical.com/  

https://substack.com/@racheldonald

BOOKS & OTHER RESOURCES

Planet Critical Podcast - https://bit.ly/3W7JNwn

Communion: The Female Search For Love - Bell Hooks - https://bit.ly/3W7NnXl

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction and Global Human Psyche

02:52 Navigating Pain and Uncertainty

03:47 Collective Reflection and Collaboration

05:41 Finding Resilience and Coping with Overwhelm

07:07 Returning to Core Values and Love

08:38 Defining and Cultivating Flourishing

11:02 Embracing Change and Impermanence

14:32 Death and Rebirth

15:05 Adapting to Risks and Mitigating Impacts

16:03 Opportunities and Green Shoots

17:53 Adapting to Change in Industrialized Countries

19:36 Shifting Culture and Subverting Atomization

20:32 Taking Risks and Experimenting with Love

25:29 Finding Beauty and Wholeness on Dark Days

27:29 Rest and Anchoring

29:23 Pivotal Stories, Quotes, and Ideas

34:37 Feeling Alive and Free

35:59 How Rachel Rests

43:35 Communicating with Young Rachel

44:34 Roots and Anchors

45:46 Resting and Anchoring

48:34 Shifting Power Dynamics in Relationships

50:49 Taking Risks and Experimenting with Love

52:21 Finding Freedom and Aliveness

56:00 Vision for the Future of Humanity

57:54 Question to Dwell With