For leaders, 'not knowing' is our greatest source of vulnerability. Leadership is in the business of ambiguity - if not for ambiguity, we don't need leadership.

In this episode, Western Bulldogs CEO Ameet Bains shares his journey from a kid of Indian heritage in 1980s Bendigo to leading one of the AFL's most respected clubs. His story reveals how authentic leadership isn't about having all the answers, but about having the courage to show who you really are, especially when you don't know what comes next.

From taking racism to tribunal as a young amateur footballer, to navigating COVID's unprecedented challenges, to managing Luke Beveridge's contract renewal with remarkable grace - Ameet demonstrates that the best leaders create space for others to shine rather than inserting themselves where they don't belong.

"I am only where I am because of the people who have supported me and invested in me," Ameet reflects. Sometimes the greatest strength is found in simply being who you are.

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Sisters in Arms

The moments that meet you where you are—but never leave you where they found you.

Lisa Alexander’s story doesn’t begin on the court. It begins with a diary, a pen, and the quiet courage of self-reflection. At eighteen, she was a young mother, studying to become a teacher, writing her way through the complexity of life.

That simple act—making sense of experience through words—became the foundation of her leadership. Years later, as head coach of the Australian Diamonds, she led the team to an extraordinary 81% win rate across nine years. But her true legacy was never just about the victories.

It was the culture.

The “Sisters in Arms” ethos she helped shape still pulses through the team. Like the Sydney Swans’ “Bloods” or the All Blacks’ carved values, it’s a culture built to endure—beyond seasons, beyond leadership, beyond the scoreboard.

In this episode, Lisa shares how values forged in life become the lifeblood of lasting change.

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Courage Over Comfort

When I had the choice…

Craig Foster was 23 when he first chose courage over comfort. Rising through the Socceroos, he saw older teammates being denied medical treatment, players without power getting pushed around. He had a choice: use his growing status for himself, or use it differently. That decision set the pattern for thirty years.

Legendary AFL coach Ron Barassi used to say "the great people in life are better than human nature." Fozzie understood this is what leadership would ask of him—a 'get to' thing, not a 'got to' thing. From protecting teammates in his early football career to walking into FIFA headquarters knowing it could end his broadcasting career, all to save Hakeem al-Araibi, a detained refugee footballer facing extradition and danger.

In this conversation, we explore the moments that define us: the taxi ride to Zurich where Fozzie and my brother Brendan acknowledged what their choice would cost for Hakeem, the human rights framework that guides him through ambiguous terrain, and the discovery that courage has its own rewards.

Craig talks about building "the muscle of principle," why leaders must be better than human nature, and what he's learned from thirty years of choosing the harder path—from the football pitch to refugee camps in Bangladesh, from broadcast studios to evacuating Afghans from Kabul.

When you had the choice, what did it say about you?

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Creating belonging in the unknown

When leadership demands you build what doesn't exist

This conversation with Marne Fechner, CEO of AusCycling, speaks to one of leadership's fundamental truths: it meets you exactly where you are, and then it doesn't leave you where it found you.

It will reveal who you are and then ask you to choose who it is you wish to become.

Eighteen months into one of the biggest leadership challenges in Australian sport, Marne Fechner faced this uncomfortable truth about herself.

"Be scared and do it anyway. Be underqualified and get in the room anyway."

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In this episode of "In the Arena," coach and author Cody Royle explores what might be the greatest irony in leadership: those of us who believe deeply in coaching often refuse to be coached ourselves.

Having spent decades in leadership positions, I've experienced firsthand that moment when "the weight of responsibility sits heavy on your chest before your feet even touch the floor." It's the silent experience of leaders everywhere, and it reveals our profound contradiction.

Cody shares the deeply personal origins of his powerful book "Tough Stuff" – born from his own pain after losing a player to suicide and finding no resources to help navigate that trauma as a leader. "I went looking for things that could help me with that and found nothing," he told me.

Our conversation challenges the mythology we've constructed around leadership that equates self-sufficiency with strength. The true courage isn't found in going it alone—it's found in the vulnerability of acknowledging we don't have all the answers.

As Cody wisely notes, "Leadership is an exchange of humanity... it's supposed to be connective and it's supposed to be a shared weight." Join us as we explore why having "A Second Set of Eyes" isn't merely support – it's an acknowledgment that our job isn't to have all the answers but to create spaces where better questions can flourish.

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Neil Balme is one of those people that you immediately feel good about. Charismatic with a big presence, quick and eager to find humour even in the most challenging situations, disarmingly intelligent in the most humble of ways. He cannot help but draw people to him, but somehow he stays fully present with them with wonderful generosity and decency. Yet, as impactful as this is, what makes Neil Balme special is his wonderful capacity to make you feel good about you.

We explore the "multiplier effect" that Balme has cultivated throughout his remarkable career – where collective success exponentially exceeds individual contributions, and where genuine care creates championship cultures.

As Neil simply puts it: "There's nothing else - it's only people helping each other."

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I recently had the privilege of sitting down with Nick Stone, whose journey from AFL journeyman to founder of Bluestone Lane, America's fastest-growing premium café brand, exemplifies resilience and authentic leadership.

Nick played just 20 games across Collingwood, Hawthorn and St. Kilda over six years, fighting for his career with each one-year contract. What struck me most was how Nick never allowed football to consume his identity, even while giving it everything he had. When his playing career ended—the same day he completed his Monash University degree—Nick embraced this transition as an opportunity rather than dwelling on what might have been.

In our conversation, Nick shared how this experience shaped his approach to business and leadership. His philosophy of "unlocking versus extracting" potential and building trust through transparent feedback proved crucial when Bluestone Lane lost 87% of its revenue during COVID-19.

Nick's story reminds us that leadership isn't about having all the answers, but about remaining genuinely curious and comfortable with the questions. His ability to balance seemingly opposing qualities—being data-driven while prioritising human connection, maintaining high standards while creating space for vulnerability—offers valuable lessons for anyone navigating leadership challenges.

Join us for this thought-provoking discussion about finding your authentic self beyond your professional role, the power of embracing feedback, and the continuous journey of personal growth.

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"If you are not genuine with people, you won't get anything. You won't get productivity, won't get ideas, you won't get innovation, and you won't get a safe building site." - Joe Barr

When Joe Barr became CEO of John Holland, he made a decision that would define his leadership journey: to embrace what he didn't know.

With little experience in rail and infrastructure, Joe found himself leading one of Australia's largest construction companies.

Rather than feigning expertise, he chose authenticity.

This, in itself, is an easy choice.

Most CEOs would state this intention when taking up their position. Few, however, understand what it truly asks of them, remembering that people do not experience our intentions; they experience our behaviours.

Authenticity is an outcome and emerges only through vulnerability, which itself requires genuine bravery.

In this case, the vulnerability of waking up to many consequences of leading multi-billion-dollar projects and thousands of employees.

The discomfort of ‘not knowing’ marks the place where leadership is most needed.

This is a wonderful conversation.

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Come to Play

"Just be a good person, Cameron."

I have put myself back 'In the Arena', this time on the other side of the podcast desk.

Soon, I found myself having a conversation I had never had.

This is not a coincidence. My inquisitor is Andrew Horsfield, who is well experienced in drawing out the conversation we need to have. He has his own podcast, the wonderfully named "The Messy Middle." He is thoughtful, generous, and courageous, and this conversation would come with these expectations.

"Let's make this good", was the clear understanding I had after chatting through the prospect of him hosting me on my podcast.

Andrew knows there is little value in the 'known/spoken' dialogue that dominates most of our conversations, but offers nothing by way of solution to the challenges leaders face. We quickly move into the 'known/unspoken' that leaders need to have, mostly avoid, but we are are pleased when we do, and over time, a place I have been prepared to go, as have many of the guests 'In the Arena'.

But there is another level it can go, and we did.

A new conversation, joining of dots, questioning of beliefs, challenging of ideas, minds ticking, knowing that it would be recorded and offered to the world with all of its uncertainty.

These are the best conversations.

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Hawthorn Football Club President Andy Gowers’ leadership beliefs do not reveal themselves through grand declarations or certainties but through a willingness to embrace complexity.

It is an effort to find connection where others might see only division.

"The feedback I got when I was considering running for the board was confronting. Some people thought I'd be wasting my time. Others warned me it would be the hardest thing I've ever done."

He understood the full weight of leadership would soon settle onto his shoulders. His eyes were wide open, and if they weren’t, they soon would be, such were the cautionary tales from those who understood the complexity of what lay ahead for this storied football club, some of whom had travelled the path before, as well as those who cared for Andy.

"But I couldn't walk away. This club gave me so much. When it needed someone to step up, I felt a responsibility to give back."

This is a very generous podcast, with a very generous and humble leader.

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