In The Den with Mama Dragons

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Two of our podcast episodes have been named finalists for the 2026 Signal Awards, and today we’re re-airing one of those episodes. You can vote through October 15th here. We hope you’ll listen to this episode again, and consider sending it to a friend or two who would benefit from it. Sara is joined In the Den by two other moms of trans kids, Melissa and Sarah, and together the three moms will share with you what’s on their hearts–the fears, the doubts, the anger and the joys–in hopes to offer you all some solidarity and connection. Because we know that being the mom of trans or queer kids right now can be really hard, but none of us are alone in the journey. 

Special Guest: Melissa

Melissa is the mother of two wonderfully brilliant teen daughters. A 16 yo cisgender and 14 yo trans kiddo, currently living in a red state where gender affirming care is banned. Melissa works in healthcare which can be both a blessing and a curse when navigating the systems needed to keep her kids thriving. When not navigating the healthcare system, you can find her roaming the hills behind her home with her two fur babies and finding joy within nature (preferably with a backpack on her back).

Special Guest: Sarah 

Rev. Sarah (she/they) lives with her family in the Southwest where she enjoys hiking and sunsets when she’s not working.  They live in a multi generational household with her mom and 16 old, her spouse and their dog and cat.  Sarah has worked as an organizer, an educator and now as a minister where she does all three!  

Links from the Show:

• Join Mama Dragons today

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org. 

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Coming out can be scary and full of unknowns, but it can also be a time of celebration and curiosity. Today’s guest In the Den, PJ Brescia, created the nonprofit Baby Gay and has made it their mission to create a welcoming and warm environment for those who are just coming out of the closet and learning to embrace who they truly are. Mama Dragons is excited to be joining Baby Gay to help create welcome packages for newly out LGBTQ+ individuals. New In the Den co-host Shannon talks with PJ about their coming out story, the creation of Baby Gay, and the work that Mama Dragons will be doing with Baby Gay in the future.

Special Guest: PJ Brescia

PJ Brescia (they/them) is the founder & CEO of BabyGay™, a nonprofit and media platform dedicated to supporting LGBTQ+ individuals through the coming out journey via storytelling, advocacy, and togetherness. In partnership with The Black Cat, and the Los Angeles City Council, PJ helped champion the successful 2024 initiative establishing National Coming Out Day as an official day of recognition in the City of Los Angeles. PJ hosts The BabyGay™ Podcast, a 2026 Webby Awards Honoree for “Best New Podcast,” and was named to the 2025 Out100 for their work advancing queer visibility and community. PJ also serves as President of the LA Queer Coalition and as a board member of the LA chapter of NLGJA: The Association of LGBTQ+ Journalists.

Links from the Show:

• PJ on IG
• Baby Gay on IG
• Baby Gay Website
• Baby Gay on FB
• Baby Gay Podcast on Spotify
• Baby Gay on Youtube
• Get Involved with Baby Gay
• Join Mama Dragons today

Go deeper with Empowered Parent Learning - Mama Dragons’ on-demand library of video courses and webinars for parents of LGBTQ+ kids. Two tracks: Parenting Essentials and Parent Advocacy. Free for Mama Dragons members, a small one-time fee for everyone else. Includes Suicide Prevention Training and Parachute eLearning. 

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org. 

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Content Warning: Discussion of suicidality

We have some exciting news to share: we’re adding another host to the In the Den team! For the past few years, Sara has had the opportunity to sit across from some really extraordinary people and have the in depth conversations that make up this podcast. And while fortunately Sara is not going anywhere, moving forward, she’ll tag team with another host, who will bring new energy and fresh ideas to our show. Without further ado, we’d like to welcome Shannon Mannon to the In the Den family!

Special Guest: Shannon Mannon

As an award-winning writer and communications leader, Shannon Mannon invigorates teams, organizations, and communities. Currently, Shannon is a Senior Consultant at WD Communications where she coaches Fortune 100 clients in interpersonal communication, EQ, presentation skills, and storytelling for social impact. She also leads 3-Minute Storyteller, a platform that creates digital stories featuring movement makers of all stripes— from astronauts to entrepreneurs to New York Times bestselling authors. She’s also a contributor at Living Room Conversations, using intentional conversation to bridge divides. Her thought leadership pieces have been published in national media outlets like The Philadelphia Inquirer, USA Today, Motherly, and Advocate.

Shannon brings her civic leadership to all facets of community and organizational life. As the operations lead at University of Pennsylvania's Institute for Urban Research, she designed high-profile events. While leading her community's health and wellness coalition, Shannon strengthened the social fabric, broke down silos between agencies, and secured grant funds to double the operating budget. As a Regional Director at Habitat for Humanity International, she steadily led a team through organizational upheaval. At Operation Smile International she led medical missions across three continents. She is a mother of three teens and is the co-host for the In the Den podcast for Mama Dragons, a nonprofit organization that supports, educates, and empowers mothers of LGBTQ+ children. She also serves on the board of directors at St. Peter’s Place which houses low-income seniors and leads the Speaker Series for PFLAG Chester County.

Links from the Show:

• Join Mama Dragons today
• Cleavage by Jennifer Finney Boylan 

Go deeper with Empowered Parent Learning - Mama Dragons’ on-demand library of video courses and webinars for parents of LGBTQ+ kids. Two tracks: Parenting Essentials and Parent Advocacy. Free for Mama Dragons members, a small one-time fee for everyone else. Includes Suicide Prevention Training and Parachute eLearning. 

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org. 

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We talk a lot about what happens when our kids come out. How do we respond? What do we say? How do we make sure they know they’re loved? But there’s another question we should be asking as well: What are we doing before they ever come out to make sure they already know they’re safe? Our kids are paying attention. They hear how we talk about LGBTQ people. They notice how we respond to a trans person on TV or someone who comes out at school. They hear what our churches and our communities are saying, and even if they haven’t told us anything about themselves, they may already be wondering, “If this is who I am, will I still belong here?”Today In the Den, special guest and past Mama Dragon blog editor Laura Leavitt talks with Sara about how we can create homes where our kids don't have to wait until they're ready to come out to know that they are loved, welcomed, and safe, and there there is nothing about who they are that could ever change that.

 Special Guest: Laura Leavitt

Laura Howells Leavitt is married to Glen and is the mother to six wonderful kids and Lolly (her grandma name) to six beautiful grand kiddos.  She was born and raised in Long Beach, CA and has been a resident of Twin Falls, ID for 23 years.  She got her teaching degree from Idaho State University shortly after getting married but primarily was a stay-at-home mom.  She was the blog editor for Mama Dragons from 2020-2022, gathering over 80 stories from moms of LGBTQ kids, who had so much wisdom, courage and goodness to share through their stories.  Laura has volunteered through hospice and teaching art to 4th graders and loves gardening, travel and being involved in community theater.

Links from the Show:

• Join Mama Dragons today

Go deeper with Empowered Parent Learning - Mama Dragons’ on-demand library of video courses and webinars for parents of LGBTQ+ kids. Two tracks: Parenting Essentials and Parent Advocacy. Free for Mama Dragons members, a small one-time fee for everyone else. Includes Suicide Prevention Training and Parachute eLearning. 

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org. 

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Connect with Mama Dragons:
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We talk all the time about sex and gender, about what’s “biological,” what’s “social,” and what chromosomes, hormones, and body parts have to do with it. Especially in this political moment, there is an enormous amount of energy being spent trying to define sex as one simple, fixed, binary thing, but we know there’s more to it than that. Sex as a category contains multiple and sometimes overlapping dimensions. Today’s guest In the Den is Dr. Phoenix Har, an educator, historian of science, and scholar in gender and queer studies whose work looks at the ways medicine has constructed and defined sex and gender—and how those definitions have intersected with nationalism, citizenship, and who gets recognized as belonging.

Special Guest: Dr. Phoenix Har

Dr. Phoenix Har (they/them) is an educator, historian of science, and scholar in gender and queer studies. They focus on the construction of gender and sex in the medical field and nationalist movements for citizenship. They demonstrate the difficulties in pinning down "biological sex" to one coherent category and argue that a pluralist understanding of sex is the only way to make the category work. Due to their scholarship on these topics, they advocate for transgender and intersex justice in medical care.  

Links from the Show:

• Dr. Har on IG
• Dr. Har’s Patreon
• Dr. Har’s Substack
• Join Mama Dragons today

Go deeper with Empowered Parent Learning - Mama Dragons’ on-demand library of video courses and webinars for parents of LGBTQ+ kids. Two tracks: Parenting Essentials and Parent Advocacy. Free for Mama Dragons members, a small one-time fee for everyone else. Includes Suicide Prevention Training and Parachute eLearning. 

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org. 

Support the show

Connect with Mama Dragons:
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When we think about Pride, there’s a good chance our minds go to one particular place: the Stonewall Inn in New York City. In the early morning hours of June 28, 1969, a police raid at that little Greenwich Village bar sparked a rebellion that lasted for days—and that moment is widely remembered as a catalyst for the modern LGBTQ+ liberation movement. Today, the Stonewall Inn continues to be a flashpoint for our movement. As a National Monument and New York State Historic Site, its history—and whose stories get remembered and honored there—have taken on new urgency as the fight for transgender rights and visibility has escalated under this administration. It is still a gathering place, a symbol, and a reminder of just how much our community has fought for—and how much there is still to fight for. Today In the Den, Sara talks with Stacy Lentz, CEO and co-founder of the Stonewall Gives Back Initiative, an organization that takes the history, visibility, and cultural power of the Stonewall name and puts it to work supporting LGBTQ+ people and communities today. They’ll discuss the history we remember, the history we sometimes get wrong, and what it means to take that legacy of resistance and turn it into action and giving back.

Special Guest: Stacy Lentz

Stacy is a nationally recognized LGBTQ+ Advocate, marketing expert, and CEO of the Stonewall Inn Gives Back Initiative. She is also the first and only lesbian co-owner of the historic The Stonewall Inn, widely known as the birthplace of the modern LGBTQ+ rights movement. For over two decades, Stacy has helped guide one of the most iconic institutions in the world. A trusted national media voice, she has shaped global Pride campaigns, mobilized major brands, and transformed cultural flashpoints into moments of visibility, accountability, and action. A compelling speaker and strategic advisor, she brings a powerful perspective at the intersection of legacy, leadership, and impact.

Links from the Show:

• The Stonewall Inn Gives Back Initiative
• Donate to the Stonewall Inn Gives Back Initiative
• Join Mama Dragons today

Go deeper with Empowered Parent Learning - Mama Dragons’ on-demand library of video courses and webinars for parents of LGBTQ+ kids. Two tracks: Parenting Essentials and Parent Advocacy. Free for Mama Dragons members, a small one-time fee for everyone else. Includes Suicide Prevention Training and Parachute eLearning. 

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org. 

Support the show

Connect with Mama Dragons:
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Donate to this podcast

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Autism and gender diversity often seem to show up together in our kids. There’s been some really interesting research exploring this correlation, finding that people with autism are more likely than the general population to identify as transgender or gender diverse. That doesn't mean one causes the other, but it does mean that for many of us, learning how to support a trans child has also meant learning about neurodivergence in entirely new ways. What we've discovered along the way is that so many of the things that help autistic kids thrive are the very same things that help us raise queer kids, too. This week In the Den, Sara chats with coach, speaker, and author of Grandparenting on the Spectrum: A Journey from Both Sides of the Desk, Jennifer Kaufman. Jennifer brings a unique perspective, not only as a professional who has spent years supporting families, but also as a grandparent whose own family has walked this journey. Her book is written for grandparents, but honestly, the wisdom reaches far beyond that audience. Whether your child is autistic, ADHD, otherwise neurodivergent, queer, transgender, or some beautiful combination of those identities, we think you'll hear themes that resonate deeply. This conversation is full of practical wisdom, compassion, and reminders that our kids don't need us to fix them—they need us to know them, trust them, and love them for exactly who they are.

Special Guest: Jennifer Kaufman

Jennifer Kaufman brings a perspective on autism that few people can claim. As a school principal with over a decade serving students with autism and the grandmother of a child with autism, she lives this world from both sides. She is the author of Grandparenting on the Spectrum: A Journey from Both Sides of the Desk and speaks to grandparents, families, and first responders about navigating the autism journey with confidence and compassion. She is also the founder of First Response Autism, where she trains police, first responders, and college campus security teams on ways in which to best support autistic and neurodivergent individuals in their communities.

Links from the Show:

• Grandparenting on the Spectrum book
• Grandparenting on the Spectrum Website
• Grandparenting on the Spectrum FB
• First Response Autism Website
• Grandparenting on the Spectrum IG
• Join Mama Dragons today

Go deeper with Empowered Parent Learning - Mama Dragons’ on-demand library of video courses and webinars for parents of LGBTQ+ kids. Two tracks: Parenting Essentials and Parent Advocacy. Free for Mama Dragons members, a small one-time fee for everyone else. Includes Suicide Prevention Training and Parachute eLearning. 

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org. 

Support the show

Connect with Mama Dragons:
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Donate to this podcast

Send us Fan Mail

When a child comes out as transgender, every parent begins a journey. One of Mama Dragons' big priorities this year is building deeper community—making sure every parent feels seen and knows they are not alone. And while moms often find one another pretty naturally, dads don't always have those same spaces to ask questions, wrestle with big feelings, or simply hear another dad say, "Yeah, I've been there too." Today In the Den, Sara sits down with three dads to talk about those first moments of learning their child was transgender, the questions they wrestled with, the things they got wrong, the things they learned, and the ways their kids have expanded their hearts and their understanding of what it means to love unconditionally. Whether you're a mom hoping to better understand your partner, a dad looking for someone who gets it, or anyone who loves a transgender young person, we think you're going to find something meaningful in these conversations.

Special Guest: Mike Jones

Mike is a senior software developer in Boise, Idaho. He and his wife, Shauna, have three children and two dogs. He has been a dedicated supporter of LGBTQ+ rights since his oldest child came out over a decade ago. In his free time, Mike enjoys playing chess, hiking, watching movies, and reading speculative fiction.

Special Guest: Michael Alvarado

Michael works as a Sales Manager for Asana Climbing, selling padding systems to climbing gyms across the country. He loves being a dad and when he’s not working you can find him fishing, golfing and playing disc golf with his youngest and watching food shows with his eldest.

Special Guest: Chris Erwin

Chris Erwin lives in Idaho with his wife, two kids, two cats and a dog. He enjoys creating things with his 3-D printer, watching Arsenal, and biking near the river, as well as reading all things Brandon Sanderson. 

Links from the Show:

• Join Mama Dragons today

Go deeper with Empowered Parent Learning - Mama Dragons’ on-demand library of video courses and webinars for parents of LGBTQ+ kids. Two tracks: Parenting Essentials and Parent Advocacy. Free for Mama Dragons members, a small one-time fee for everyone else. Includes Suicide Prevention Training and Parachute eLearning. 

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org. 

Support the show

Connect with Mama Dragons:
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Donate to this podcast

Send us Fan Mail

One of the joys of being Mama Dragons is getting to become fierce advocates for our LGBTQ+ children. For many of us that means learning from movement leaders, the torch bearers who rise up each generation to move the needle forward. Most often these are ordinary people with extraordinary courage who stand in the gap between reality and a future where everybody can flourish and say, “This isn’t good enough,” and then dedicate their lives to closing that gap. Today In the Den, guest host Shannon sits down with just such a movement leader. Corinne Goodwin is the founder and Executive Director of the Eastern PA Trans Equity Project, which helps transgender people across 42 counties of Pennsylvania change their legal names and receive emergency assistance, and offers peer support groups for trans people and the people who love them.  

Special Guest: Corinne Goodwin

Corinne Goodwin (she/they) is the founder and Executive Director of Eastern PA Trans Equity Project a non-profit organization which has a mission of empowering transgender individuals throughout a 42-County area of Eastern and Central Pennsylvania.  An award-winning community leader and in-demand speaker, Corinne actively works on issues impacting the lives of LGBTQ Pennsylvanians. Corinne is a member of the Pennsylvania Governor’s Commission on LGBTQ Affairs and was a founding board member of Keystone Equality.  As the leader of the Trans Equity Project, she works to advance LGBTQ+ rights in coalition with organizations that include the Human Rights Campaign, Pennsylvania Commission for Fairness & Justice, the ACLU, the Education Law Center, the Pennsylvania Youth Congress and more. Recently retired, Corinne served as a senior executive in the retail and telecommunications sectors, after which she operated her own business consultancy firm for fifteen years. A parent to one son who works in New York’s theater industry, she lives in Orefield PA with her wife Debbie, a grumpy cat named April, and a model railroad that takes up way too much space in her basement. 

Links from the Show:

• Eastern PA Trans Equity Project
• PA Trans Equity on FB
• PA Trans Equity on IG
• Join Mama Dragons today

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org.

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Donate to this podcast

Send us Fan Mail

When your child first came out to you as LGBTQ+, who else was in the room? Who else in your family had to absorb the news, adjust, learn, and figure out where they fit into a story that wasn’t theirs, but, as we’ll see in this episode, was also very much theirs? Most of the conversations In the Den center around our queer kids.  Today’s episode focuses on our other kids–the siblings, who had to figure everything out quietly alongside the rest of us. In today’s episode, guest host Karmel sits down with guests Jessica, Hunter, and Brandon to reflect on their experiences of having a sibling come out, what changed for them, what challenges they faced, and what advice they have for others who have a sibling come out as queer.

Special Guest: Jessica Pierce

Jessica is the oldest of the Harper kids and big sister to Forrest. She works as a therapist specializing in OCD and trauma.

Special Guest: Hunter Pierce

Hunter joined the family when he married Jessica in May 2021. He is a fierce ally and believes we should all love one another unconditionally. He is an IT professional. 

Special Guest: Brandon Harper

Brandon is the middle child of the Harper kids and Forrest's older brother. He is a tech entrepreneur building in the med tech and AI-embedded device space. 

Links from the Show:

• Join Mama Dragons today

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org. 

Support the show

Connect with Mama Dragons:
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Donate to this podcast