In this episode of The Agile CEO, host JJ Sutherland, CEO of Scrum Inc., sits down with Cameron Kunzelman, Professor of Game Studies at Mercer University, to explore what game theory, simulation, and behavioral design can teach us about leading complex organizations. Through the lens of video games and systems thinking, Cameron and JJ unpack how rules, incentives, and feedback loops shape behavior—not just in games, but in every workplace and team.

From complex adaptive systems to organizational psychology, Cameron draws on examples from game design and cultural theory to reveal how every system—corporate or creative—reflects the values and assumptions of the people who build it. Together, they discuss how leaders can intentionally design better “rule sets” that drive alignment, creativity, and accountability, while avoiding the traps of over-gamification and rigid bureaucracy.

For executives, agilists, and innovators alike, this conversation offers a new way to think about operating models and leadership: as systems in motion. Whether you’re designing incentives for your teams or rethinking your organization’s structure, this episode challenges you to embrace uncertainty, experiment with rules, and build systems that can adapt and thrive in the face of change.

Resources and Mentions:Cameron Kunzelman Website: https://ckunzelman.com/Cameron Kunzelman on Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/ckunzelman.bsky.socialThe World is Born From Zero: Understanding Speculation in Video Games: https://www.amazon.com/World-Born-Zero-Understanding-Speculation/dp/3110718324Ranged Touch: https://rangedtouch.com/Game Studies Study Buddies Podcast: https://rangedtouch.com/game-studies-study-buddies/Bruno Latour, French Theorist and Philosopher: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_LatourAramis, or the Love of Technology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramis,_or_the_Love_of_TechnologyWolfram System Modeler: https://www.wolfram.com/system-modeler/Philosophical Chemistry: Genealogy of a Scientific Field: https://www.amazon.com/Philosophical-Chemistry-Genealogy-Scientific-Field/dp/1474286402

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