In this episode of Scratch, Ariel Kelman, President & CMO of Salesforce, shows how a category leader can still think like a challenger through the power of education, not persuasion. Education beats persuasion when you make community the flywheel: by pairing product truth with peer proof through events like Dreamforce, Trailhead, and forums, so customers learn how to win with your product (not just why it’s great). That mindset turns advocacy into momentum.

But teaching only lands if the tech actually works in the flow of “work”, so Ariel’s rule is being able to put data before demos. He emphasizes the need to harmonize and govern customer data in Data Cloud so AI agents have context, then deploy them where they matter. For example, a product Q&A agent spun up in weeks drove 700k+ customer chats, and their website/service agents have resolved 1.6M cases because they understand real customer history, permissions, and next best actions.

Finally, as a brand, you need to be Customer Zero and balance quick wins with long bets. Dogfood your offerings first to iterate fast and convert internal proofs into external playbooks, then scale what works. 

Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube ▶️: https://youtu.be/92Rfv19ypQE

          📚 Chapters:

• 00:00 – Intro & Ariel’s challenger lens  🎙️
• 05:35 – Agentforce: AI agents in the flow of work 🤖
• 10:40 – Data Cloud: the prerequisite for accurate AI ☁️
• 12:56– Momentum: quick wins while building the platform 🚀
• 13:23 – “Infinite SDR capacity” & rethinking lead flow  🔁
• 14:39 – Autonomous vs. augmenting agents (Finnair)  🤝
• 26:54 – Customer Zero: dogfooding at scale 🐶
• 27:47 – Dreamforce: education as strategy 🎪
• 36:10 – Community as the marketing flywheel 🧑‍🤝‍🧑
• 41:35 – Salesforce’s AI point of difference (trust + data) 🛡️
• 45:21 – Cutting through AI noise with use-case education 📚

🖊️Mentioned in the show:

• Challenger brand mentioned: Ramp – spend management platform with software-defined controls 
• Salesforce Agentforce – AI agents embedded in Salesforce workflows
• Data Cloud – Salesforce’s customer data platform (CDP) 
• Dreamforce – Salesforce’s flagship community conference
• Finnair – Finland’s largest airline (Agentforce case mentioned)
• Akamai – content delivery network (CDN) pioneer
• Amazon/AWS – cloud infrastructure & services
• Siebel – Oracle’s legacy on-prem CRM suite
• Snowflake – cloud data platform & data warehouse
• Apple – hardware, software & services (self-cannibalization mindset reference)

Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Ariel Kelman, President & CMO of Salesforce, in this episode.

Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com & LinkedIn

Find Eric on LinkedIn

Find Ariel on LinkedIn. 

Say hi at [email protected], we’d love to hear from you.

Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.

If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗  https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024