Intentional Churches Podcast

On this episode of the Intentional Churches Podcast, Doug sits down with longtime broadcaster, ministry leader, and AI researcher Drew Dickens for a timely and thought-provoking conversation on AI, spirituality, and the future of the Church.

With more than 30 years of vocational ministry experience—and a front-row seat to the rise of artificial intelligence—Drew helps church leaders move beyond fear and hype to thoughtfully engage how AI is already shaping the pulpit, the pew, and spiritual formation.

Together, Doug and Drew explore:

• Why AI is morally neutral—and how the Church must lead with discernment instead of fear
• How AI is quietly becoming a spiritual authority in people’s lives
• The threat AI poses to embodiment, community, and relational discipleship
• What pastors need to understand about how congregants are already using AI for therapy, prayer, and guidance
• How church leaders can use AI responsibly as a tool, not a replacement for Spirit-led formation
• Practical ways AI can support relational evangelism without replacing human connection

Drew also shares a powerful personal story that illustrates both the real comfort and the real dangers of AI—and why everything must ultimately be brought back into Spirit-filled community.

If you’re a senior pastor, ministry leader, or church staff member wondering how to lead faithfully in a rapidly changing digital landscape, this conversation will help you think clearly, lead courageously, and shepherd wisely in the age of AI.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here:

intentionalchurches.com

Timestamps

00:00 – A late-night conversation with AI that changed everything

01:00 – Welcome to the Intentional Churches Podcast

01:26 – Meet Drew Dickens: broadcaster, ministry leader, and early AI adopter

03:10 – Drew’s journey from national radio to evangelism and contemplative prayer apps

05:19 – Reaching hundreds of thousands daily through Scripture and meditation

06:33 – Why AI is everywhere—and why most people don’t even realize it

07:14 – Is AI “of the devil”? A biblical framework for discernment

08:38 – What history teaches us about technology and temptation

10:30 – Why pastors can’t ignore how AI is shaping everyday spirituality

11:14 – How congregants are already using AI in their spiritual lives

13:37 – The three biggest threats AI poses to the Church

14:55 – Threat #1: AI and the erosion of spiritual authority

16:47 – Threat #2: Disembodiment and the loss of real community

18:06 – Threat #3: Algorithm-driven spiritual formation

19:47 – How pastors should educate and lead their congregations around AI

21:55 – Why transparency from the pulpit matters more than fear

24:39 – Embodiment, discipleship, and why relationships still matter most

26:17 – AI as therapist: what church leaders need to understand now

28:03 – A deeply personal story: grief, AI, and prayer at 1 a.m.

30:31 – Bringing AI experiences into Spirit-filled community

33:22 – Evangelism, awe, and what AI can never replace

35:30 – Why relational evangelism transforms the believer

38:07 – Using AI to practice gospel conversations wisely

39:58 – A powerful evangelism tool pastors should pay attention to

42:34 – AI debating theology: creativity without replacing the Spirit

44:12 – Revival, Gen Z, and the Church’s moment of responsibility

47:13 – AI as a tool for exploration—not authority

48:10 – Where to learn more from Drew Dickens

50:09 – Final encouragement for church leaders navigating AI faithfully

Website: intentionalchurches.com

The Radical Alignment Book

Blog: intentionalchurches.com/blog

YouTube: @IntentionalChurches

Facebook: Intentional Churches

Instagram: @IntentionalChurches

X/Twitter: @IntentChurches

On this episode of The Intentional Churches Podcast, Doug talks with Chris Steele about the incredible transformation happening at North Terrace Church in Zanesville, Ohio.

Chris shares the honest story of how their team realized they were making church attenders instead of disciples, and how that single insight pushed them to rebuild unity, clarify their mission, and align everything around the Great Commission.

You’ll hear how that alignment sparked a movement of everyday people leading their friends to Jesus, resulting in 34 baptisms in 2023, 125 in 2024, and already 138 baptisms this year. Chris explains how prayer, simple tools, and personal ownership of “the one” have reshaped their entire culture.

If you’re a church leader looking to rebuild momentum, re-ignite evangelism, or move your people toward mission, this conversation will encourage you and give you practical next steps.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here:
intentionalchurches.com

Timestamps

00:00 Welcome + Why This Story Matters
01:25 Chris Steele’s Ministry Background
03:02 Early Faith Influences
05:01 Ministry Journey & Leadership Wounds
07:19 Zanesville Culture & Ministry Context
11:17 Opportunities and Challenges in Appalachia
13:35 Rebuilding Generosity and Discipleship
18:15 Early Culture Shifts at North Terrace
23:10 COVID Collapse & Losing Half the Church
24:07 Realizing They Weren’t Making Disciples
26:44 Building a New Discipleship Pathway
28:55 A Turning Point: Staff & Elder Unity
30:42 Discovering IC’s Tools and Language
31:46 The “One More” Mission
34:11 The Baptism Explosion
36:26 Everyday People Leading Their One
37:37 Young Families Searching for Purpose
41:36 Preparing for Future Growth
43:36 How to Join the IC Learning Community

Links

Website: intentionalchurches.com
The Radical Alignment Book
Blog: intentionalchurches.com/blog
YouTube: @IntentionalChurches
Facebook: Intentional Churches
Instagram: @IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: @IntentChurches

On this episode of The Intentional Churches Podcast, Doug and Bart unpack the heart behind Radical Alignment: The Surprising Journey of Becoming an Intentional Church—the brand-new book that takes church leaders inside the “why” behind the IC toolbox.

Together, they share the behind-the-scenes story of how the book came to life—from early church interviews and the conference book challenge to the powerful stories that emerged along the way. You’ll hear about ice-bath baptisms in Florida, a thousand-person Tennessee church mobilizing 597 members to reach their “One,” and the connection between personal Great Commission ownership and lasting church alignment.

Doug and Bart also explore how urgency, clarity, and obedience are reshaping churches across the IC network, why Radical Alignment serves as a prequel to the original Intentional Church book, and how every leader can reframe their calling through the lens of the Great Commission.

If you’ve ever wondered how to make evangelism personal again—or how to help your church rediscover its core mission—this conversation will encourage, challenge, and reorient you to what matters most.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here:
intentionalchurches.com

00:00 The Gathering Church and a 70-Year-Old’s Ice Bath Baptism
02:04 Doug and Bart Catch Up on Life, Travel, and Nicknames
05:12 Florida Church Plant Stories: Courage and Obedience
09:51 When Baptism Becomes a Movement
13:06 Planting, Watering, and Trusting God for the Growth
15:23 Inside the “One Life” Project and Culture Change in Churches
18:50 Writing Radical Alignment: The Story Behind the Book
20:53 The “Why” Behind the IC Toolbox
23:08 How IC’s Learning Community Shaped the Book
26:07 Why Radical Alignment Is a Team Study, Not a Solo Read
27:30 The 25 Foundational Beliefs and IC’s Secret Sauce
29:27 Church Stories that Prove Great Commission Alignment Works
31:21 The Hope for Church Leaders Who Read Radical Alignment
34:17 Doug’s Challenge: “Relational Evangelism Is the Football”
35:26 From the Road: Nashville’s Airport Gridlock Story
38:33 Travel Chaos, Grace, and Gratitude
39:30 Closing Thoughts and Book Details

Website: intentionalchurches.com
Get The Book: Radical Alignment
Blog: intentionalchurches.com/blog
YouTube: @IntentionalChurches
Facebook: Intentional Churches
LinkedIn: Intentional Churches LinkedIn
Instagram: @IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: @IntentChurches

Join the conversation and tell us how you’re leading your church toward Great Commission alignment.

On this episode of The Intentional Churches Podcast, Doug and Erin sit down with Pastor Riley Halliday, a former U.S. Air Force special operations leader who’s now leading Manna Church in Newport News, Virginia.

Riley shares how his church embraces the constant movement of military life as a disciple-making opportunity. With families rotating every two years, his team trains every believer to live on mission, ready to reach their “One” wherever God sends them next.

We unpack how urgency can fuel alignment, what it takes to build a training and sending culture, and why clarity beats complexity every time.

If your church is in a transient community or you need fresh inspiration to fight for alignment around the Great Commission, this conversation will stir you up.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here:
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

00:00 Training and Sending with Urgency in a Military Church
00:33 Doug and Erin Welcome Riley Halliday to the Podcast
02:04 Meet Riley: From Air Force Special Operations to Church Planting
05:06 The Birth of Manna Church and a Vision for Military Families
07:26 Launching During COVID and Finding God’s Provision Through a Merger
09:51 How a 100-Year-Old Church Became Manna’s New Home
10:39 Leading Near Military Bases: Nellis, Creech, and Beyond
12:54 The Two-Year Window: Training and Sending Before Families Move
14:13 Micro-Sites, Military Moves, and Multiplying Disciples
15:05 How Military Life Fuels Disciple-Making and Multiplication
16:19 Doug on “Radical Alignment” and Reuniting Evangelism and Discipleship
18:33 Fighting for Clarity and Simplicity in a Growing Church
19:59 How Canyon Ridge Fought for Vision and Alignment
22:08 Creating a Culture That Repeats the Mission
23:36 Practical Tools: Circle-Ups, Vision Rhythms, and For the One Bracelets
27:28 Keeping Alignment Simple, Transferable, and Repeatable
29:00 Fighting Misalignment with Elders, Staff, and New Ideas
31:30 Saying “No” to Good Things to Protect the Mission
33:42 When Church Members Want a Bookstore (and Other Distractions)
34:40 How the IC Toolbox and ChurchOS Keep Teams on Track
37:01 Every New Initiative Is an Opportunity for Alignment—or Drift
38:05 Riley’s Lesson: You Reproduce Who You Are, Not What You Say
39:59 Doug’s Closing Thoughts: Returning to the Root of the Great Commission
40:53 The Radical Alignment Book and Upcoming Assessment

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
Facebook: https://facebook.com/intentionalchurches
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intentional-churches/mycompany/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: https://x.com/intentchurches

Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!

Doug and co-host Daniel Goulding sit down with Andy Cook, Executive Director of the Wheaton College Billy Graham Center, to unpack why relational evangelism belongs at the center of discipleship. Together they explore sobering stats (60% of U.S. churches are stagnant or declining), Gen Z’s surprising openness to spiritual conversations, and the practical rhythms leaders can model—from Alpha tables to breakfast-booth friendships.

Daniel shares church-plant lessons around decisions and baptisms, while Andy unpacks BGC research, revitalization cohorts, and the vision behind the Amplify Conference. Along the way, they wrestle with transfer growth vs. true conversion, the seeker-sensitive debate, preaching clearly into cultural issues, and how “radical alignment” mobilizes everyday believers. The conversation is actionable, hopeful, and data-informed.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here:
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

CHAPTERS:
00:00 The Sobering Statistic: 60% of Churches in Decline or Stagnant
01:03 Meet Co-Host Daniel Goulding and His Church Plant Story
01:21 Andy Cook’s Journey: From Willow Creek to Wheaton College
03:28 Daniel’s Radical Conversion: From Fraternity Life to Faith
06:43 Early Lessons in Relational Evangelism
08:03 Inviting Friends, Broken Hearts, and the “Lonely Bench” at Willow
10:33 Why Evangelism Must Begin with Leaders
13:32 Everyday Evangelism: Breakfast Tables and Baptism Stories
15:02 Making Evangelism a Regular Appointment on the Calendar
16:56 Why Andy Leads Alpha and Steps Outside the Christian Bubble
17:13 Inside the Billy Graham Center and Its Institutes
20:30 State of Evangelism in America Today
23:15 Transfer Growth vs. True Kingdom Growth
24:48 Why Evangelism Feels Scary—and Why It’s Still Biblical
26:20 Bad Evangelism vs. Good Evangelism: Learning Like Toddlers
28:56 Discipleship and Evangelism: Two Sides of the Same Coin
30:40 Can You Have Deep Discipleship Without Evangelism?

32:23 Gen Z’s Spiritual Openness and New Research Insights
34:46 Preaching Boldly into Cultural Issues
36:58 Calling Men to Biblical Masculinity
37:50 Convening Evangelism Leaders at the Billy Graham Center
39:18 Digital Spaces, AI, and the Future of Evangelism
40:18 The Amplify Conference: Keeping Evangelism Central
40:56 The Radical Alignment Assessment and New Data

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
Facebook: https://facebook.com/intentionalchurches
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intentional-churches/mycompany/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: https://x.com/intentchurches

Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!

David Ashcraft joins Doug and co-host Daniel Goulding on this episode of the Intentional Churches Podcast, sharing lessons from decades of leadership at LCBC in Pennsylvania.

From painful early years where elders walked out, to the explosive growth that brought thousands of people across multiple campuses, David unpacks how radical alignment and a relentless focus on “best vs. good” shaped a disciple-making movement.

During their conversation, you’ll hear why alignment matters more than keeping everyone happy, how LCBC codified its culture without losing passion, and what the 90–10 rule teaches us about the need for some people to be upset if you’re truly moving forward. David also unpacks how to discern between “good” opportunities and the “best” mission, and he shares honestly about the personal cost leaders pay to remain faithful through seasons of growth.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here:
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

CHAPTERS:
00:00 When Elders Walk Out: The Pain of Early Leadership
01:10 Meet Co-Host Daniel Goulding and His Church Plant Story
02:44 David Ashcraft’s Journey: From Texas to Pennsylvania
04:48 Facing Opposition: Letters from Abe and the Worship Wars
07:11 LCBC’s Growth: From 150 to 25,000 Across 25 Campuses
08:23 The Core Issue: Alignment vs. Misalignment in the Church
09:40 Good vs. Best: The Principle that Guides Every Decision
11:19 Lessons from Rapid Growth and Staff Alignment Challenges
14:00 Codifying Culture: From Intuition to Intentionality
16:33 Multi-Site Expansion and Why Limitations Became Opportunities
18:52 Stewardship, Buildings, and Keeping the Mission Central
22:12 Guarding Staff Culture While Scaling Fast
25:56 The 90–10 Rule: Leading with Clarity, Not Popularity
29:20 Picking Battles Carefully Without Losing Alignment
33:52 Codifying the “Gut”: Axioms and Culture Statements
39:02 Encouragement for Leaders in Shrinking or Struggling Churches
43:25 The Real Cost of Growth and Leadership Pain
45:25 Why David Stepped Into The Advantage and Global Leadership Network
47:17 Final Wisdom: Lead, Don’t Chase Popularity

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
Facebook: https://facebook.com/intentionalchurches
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intentional-churches/mycompany/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: https://x.com/intentchurches

Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!

Pastor Ben Ellefritz joins Doug for today’s episode of The Intentional Churches podcast, exploring what church growth, rural revitalization, and alignment around disciple making look like in real life. As Executive Pastor at The Crossing Church, Ben leads in a context where no town has more than 80,000 people—and some have as few as 125. Despite this, The Crossing is thriving across 12 campuses, reaching thousands each weekend.

During their conversation, you'll hear how their church realigned its multi-site strategy after discovering their previous launch model lacked commitment and sustainability. Their 12th campus launch—built entirely on pre-launch engagement, giving, and disciple-making—became their first financially self-sustaining plant from day one.

Ben also unpacks the intentional language around “Difference Makers” (not volunteers), their high expectations for both staff and lay leaders, and how they use visible scoreboards and discipleship pathways to drive alignment around the Great Commission. This conversation is a must-listen for church leaders in rural, suburban, or multi-site contexts who want to strengthen alignment, empower their people, and move from programming to pastoring.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here: 
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Redefining Church Strategy in a Shifting Culture
01:45 Meet Ben Ellefritz and The Crossing Church
04:07 From Principal to Pastor: Leadership Lessons
07:35 Revitalizing Rural Churches through Campus Acquisition
09:59 Why They Changed Their Church Planting Strategy
12:53 Defining “Difference Makers” Instead of Volunteers
14:52 Staff Gaps and the Future of Lay Leadership
16:11 Rebuilding Disciple Making from Baptism to Maturity
19:51 Using Scoreboards and Systems to Align Staff
22:03 Training Staff to Pastor, Not Just Program
23:54 What Hasn’t Worked: Lessons from Failure

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
Facebook: https://facebook.com/intentionalchurches
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intentional-churches/mycompany/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: https://x.com/intentchurches

Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!

Kicking off Season 9 of Intentional Churches, Doug is joined by IC co-founder, Bart Rendel, for a behind-the-scenes look at Intentional Churches, their leadership rhythms, and the realities many pastors face today. Bart introduces “the spanking machine”—a vivid and humorous metaphor born out of ministry burnout. Together Bart and Doug explore the constant pressure church leaders face from the unrelenting pace of weekend ministry and the need to name it honestly.

The heart of the episode centers on the remarkable story of First Christian Church in Newburgh, Indiana. Once a thriving congregation, FCC faced deep decline after leadership transitions, financial hardship, and even a tornado. When the Intentional Churches team engaged with them, they found a deeply committed leadership team willing to lean in and realign around the Great Commission. 

Bart and Doug close the episode by reflecting on signs of spiritual awakening across the country, highlighting churches seeing dramatic growth and salvations—not because of gimmicks, but because of alignment with Jesus’ mission. This is an episode for pastors who feel weary, discouraged, or unsure of what’s next. It’s a reminder that the spiritual moment is here—but the church must be ready.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here: 
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Revival Requires Two Things
01:44 Bart Hates Vacations
02:56 The Origin of “The Spanking Machine”
06:47 Courageous Leadership Stories
07:49 The Comeback of FCC Newburgh
12:06 COVID Super-Spreader Story
16:27 What’s Happening at FCC Now
19:24 Prayer, Pain, and Progress
20:40 Other Signs of Spiritual Momentum
21:52 Bart and Doug’s Random Thoughts
24:46 Are We Ready for Revival?
25:16 The Need for Great Commission Alignment

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
Facebook: https://facebook.com/intentionalchurches
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intentional-churches/mycompany/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: https://x.com/intentchurches

Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!

In this final episode of season 8, Doug sits down with Paige Peltier of Leadership Pathway to unpack what it really looks like to develop young leaders for long-term ministry impact. Paige draws on her journey through multiple ministry roles at Chapel Street Church and shares how strategic flexibility in staffing—based on a leader’s growth and God’s prompting—can dramatically impact retention and effectiveness.

Together, Doug and Paige dive into the two-year residency model at the heart of Leadership Pathway, where churches commit to hands-on, intentional development and coaching of next-gen leaders. Paige explains how Leadership Pathway partners with churches not only to recruit residents but also to equip staff with tools for leadership coaching. She also offers direct insights for church leaders wrestling with team structure, staff culture, and how to practically support the growth of Gen Z and Millennial leaders.

For any church leader wondering how to build a pipeline of future leaders and move away from the “microwave mentality” of quick hires, this conversation will provide a hopeful and highly practical blueprint. 

New to Intentional Churches? Start here: 
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Helping People Is Slow, But Worth It
01:17 Meet Paige Peltier
03:16 Paige’s Journey at Chapel Street Church
06:28 Staff Flexibility & Finding Best Contribution
09:47 Churches Must Shift How They Develop Staff
11:11 What Leadership Pathway Really Does
14:27 Why Residencies Are So Valuable
16:15 Development Is Messy—And Mission-Critical
19:49 Gen Z Leaders: What Churches Need to Know
23:14 Advice for Older & Younger Generations
24:45 Leadership Pathway by the Numbers
26:48 What Great Churches Are Doing Right
29:00 One Next Step to Get Started Developing Leaders
31:11 Paige’s Encouragement to Church Leaders

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
Facebook: https://facebook.com/intentionalchurches
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intentional-churches/mycompany/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: https://x.com/intentchurches

Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!

Sherwood Oaks Christian Church has walked through significant change in recent years—from a leadership transition after 40 years and weathering the challenges of COVID to launching a new campus. Maggie Mobley, Executive of Ministries at Sherwood Oaks, joins Erin and Doug on today’s episode of Intentional Churches to talk about how to find clarity and alignment during seasons of disruption.

During their conversation, Maggie opens up about the courage it took to sunset beloved events that were no longer missional and how having a common language and calendaring rhythms empowered the staff to have hard, healthy conversations. Together the three also discuss developing a team culture, leading change in different campus contexts, and how Maggie helped transition the staff from skepticism to ownership of a shared vision. 

Whether you’re navigating transition on your own team, evaluating programs, or trying to build trust amongst your people, this episode offers rich insights into the power of alignment and evaluation.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here: 
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

CHAPTERS:
00:00 The Cost of Legacy Programs
01:17 Meet Maggie Moberly
03:15 The Unique Context of Bloomington
06:09 Differences Between Campuses
07:06 Church History and Leadership Transitions
09:55 Deciding to Partner with IC
12:49 Wins From Installing ChurchOS
15:27 Killing Sacred Cows with Courage
18:11 How the Team is Developing Differently
20:45 Creating Space for Hard Conversations
22:07 Modeling Feedback and Evaluation

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
Facebook: https://facebook.com/intentionalchurches
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intentional-churches/mycompany/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: https://x.com/intentchurches

Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!