In this episode of the Interbeing podcast, Naomi and Kyra are joined by Nick Pope, a speaker, facilitator, and coach with extensive experience working with executive teams globally. Nick shares insights from his new book 'Are You a Team or a Meeting?' discussing themes of teamwork, prioritisation, and the significance of purpose in teams. He provides valuable advice on transforming meetings into effective teams, emphasising the importance of humanity, cultural diversity, and shared purpose. The discussion also touches on overcoming challenges like exhaustion, the desire to be 'right,' and making space for genuine, productive collaboration.

00:00 Welcome to Interbeing
02:01 Introducing Our Guest: Nick Pope
07:04 Challenges Teams Face: Exhaustion and ‘Rightitis’
15:19 The Importance of Team Purpose
19:05 Practical Tips for School Leaders
26:52 Creating a Culture of Dialogue and Decision-Making
27:34 Managing Team Turnover and Long-Term Purpose
29:52 The Impact of Cultural Diversity on Team Performance
37:46 Addressing Lone Wolf Syndrome in Teams
38:37 The Role of Leaders in Shaping Team Culture
44:18 Final Thoughts and Reflections on Team Dynamics

Nick Pope’s expertise bridges the space between science and practice. As a scientist, his academic research focuses on the six conditions which create high performing executive teams. As a practitioner, for over two decades he has developed global leaders for some of the world’s most dynamic organisations, including Unilever, Nike, AstraZeneca, Lloyds, Rio Tinto, and Gucci. Engaging, pragmatic, and highly adaptable to the needs of a group, Nick is able to draw from his extensive expertise of working with over 1,000 teams in more than 50 countries from 15 different sectors. He is also visiting faculty on several international leadership programmes, and a sought after executive coach.
His forthcoming book “Are you a Team or a Meeting?” will be published by The Economist in Spring 2026.

Nick is based in Sydney with his wife and children. A keen adventurer, he loves exploring wild new places, especially ancient forests and mountains. He also loves music and is a drummer and DJ. Nick is determined to make the most of life and has gained a deep sense of perspective having lost a number of close friends and family members early in life. He is a founder and trustee of the HKM Foundation, a registered charity that provides music therapy for terminally ill children.

You can find us on Linkedin at
Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/
Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

At this mid-point in the season, we’re taking a short pause, and asking ourselves the question - What does it mean to be human?

In this episode Naomi and Matt discuss the importance of understanding the human condition, the temporary nature of the term 'human,' and the ongoing quest for connection in an increasingly isolated world. They look back at some highlights of our conversations so far, and forward to more to come.

The podcast will be back in January 2026.

You can find us on Linkedin at

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/ 

In this episode of Interbeing we dive into a profound conversation with Hayley Wilson, Deputy Head of the Senior School at Kellett School in Hong Kong. We explore the role of coaching in fostering a sense of community and humanity within schools, emphasizing values of care, curiosity, and meaningful relationships. Hayley shares her personal and professional journey toward adopting a purpose-driven and coaching-focused ethos, highlighting the significant cultural shifts at Kellett School toward connection, respect, and intentionality in both student and staff development.

02:04 Introducing Hayley Wilson and Kellett School

03:17 What Does It Mean to Be Human?

04:21 The Frenzied Nature of School Life

05:52 Finding Alternatives to Frenzy

08:34 The Importance of Connection and Culture

12:09 Discovering Coaching and Its Impact

18:54 The Power of Purpose in Education

21:50 Creating Conditions for Future Success

22:22 Purpose-Driven Leadership

23:52 Building a Culture of Respect

26:10 Challenges and Intentionality in Leadership

30:05 Cross-Cultural Leadership Dynamics

32:41 Reflections on Team Building

35:01 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

Hayley is the Deputy Head Pastoral, Wellbeing and Community and DSL of Senior of Kellett , The British International School in Hong Kong. Hayley has 18 years of experience as a teacher and leader, 13 years of which have been in an international setting - having worked previously in the USA and Egypt. Hayley holds an MA in Leadership of Mental Health and Wellbeing in Schools and has written a bespoke course in how to be a Senior Mental Health Lead in an International Setting.

Hayley is a purpose driven educator, committed to supporting every child as part of a team who are committed to living their values.

You can find us on Linkedin at

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

In this episode Matt and Naomi discuss the profound impact of coaching on school culture with their guest, Chris Broman from ICS Madrid. They explore themes of interconnectedness, the transformative power of coaching, and the importance of maintaining humanity in education. Chris shares his experiences and insights from introducing coaching into his school, highlighting the challenges and successes of this journey. The conversation delves into the organic growth of coaching practices, the importance of faith in the process, and the resulting positive changes in staff and student interactions. Tune in to hear a rich dialogue about the role of coaching in supporting a generative and reflective educational environment.

02:01 Introducing Chris Broman from ICS Madrid

02:38 Chris Broman's Perspective on Coaching in Schools

06:29 The Journey of Implementing Coaching at ICS Madrid

08:24 Challenges and Successes in Coaching Implementation

10:43 The Impact of Coaching on School Culture

11:26 The Role of Faith and Flexibility in Cultural Change

18:03 Practical Applications and Observations

22:14 Unlearning and Personal Growth in Coaching

27:58 The Ripple Effect: Coaching's Impact on Students

30:23 Looking Ahead: The Future of Coaching at ICS Madrid

31:36 Final Thoughts and Appreciation

32:41 Conclusion: Reflecting on the Conversation

Originally from Wales, Chris brings a wealth of educational experience and international perspective to his role as Principal International College Spain, which is now a European partner school for MSB, hosting coach education programmes for other schools in the region. Chris holds degrees in Mathematics and Sports Science as well as a Masters in Educational Leadership. He has taught across a range of international schools in Bahrain, Korea and Dubai. Before joining ICS, he was Principal of Uptown International School (a three-programme IB school) in Dubai. Chris is highly committed to helping young people find their passions in life through a strong co-curricular programme and inspiring classroom experiences. In addition, he is a facilitator and assessor for the National Professional Qualification for Headteachers, Senior Leaders and Middle Leaders, working with the Institute of Education in the UK.

You can find us on Linkedin at

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

In this episode we delve into the philosophy and practice of coaching, with Nobantu Mpotulo, a coach from Pretoria, South Africa, who introduces listeners to the concept of Ubuntu and the importance of seeing the interconnectedness in all human relationships. The conversation explores how embracing these principles can transform coaching practices and personal development, encouraging a collective approach to growth, presence, and empathy. The episode underscores the necessity of moving beyond individual gains to consider the broader ecosystem of impact and relationships.

02:01 Welcome to the Episode with Nobantu Mpotulo

02:24 Coaching and Ubuntu

05:19 The Essence of Being Human

08:20 Western Coaching Models vs. Ubuntu

23:31 The Diamond Approach and Presence

32:51 The Seven Cs of Ubuntu

36:37 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections

Nobantu Mpotulo hails from South Africa. Being amongst the first five African Coaches globally to be accredited as a MCC by the International Coach Federation, and having experience in varied sectors, Nobanto is a sought-after facilitator for Leadership Development Programs and coaches internationally.

Nobantu follows the agenda of the client in her coaching. Through probing questions and sharing just in time observations, she takes clients deep and helps them to identify their blind spots and embrace their shadows. Clients go deeper into the sub-conscious and unconscious levels and dance with what emerges. She provides a safe and open space for focus and exploration. She moves on a continuum of being non-directive to directive depending on what is missing in the client’s system.

No matter what she does she gets to the HEART of the client and the HEART of the matter. As a Buddhist practitioner and teacher she supports her clients in integrating the head, heart, instinctual and spiritual intelligence. She does amazing heart work with clients based on the principles of UBUNTU ‘I am because we are’.

Nobantu is an accredited Enneagram Teacher (Narrative Tradition) and Enneagram Coach (Enneagram in Business and Deep Coaching). She is a Buddhist Teacher, a Process Facilitator and Facilitator of Peace Circles. She trains, supervises and Mentor Coaches other coaches. She has experience in the private, public, NGO, NPO, Higher Education, as a coach and an OD Facilitator. Nobantu developed the Ubuntu Coaching programme that assists coaches to connect at the heart level with their clients. Live coach demonstrations on Ubuntu Coaching have been done both locally and internationally.

You can find us on Linkedin at

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

In this episode, the conversation centers on coaching within educational environments, emphasizing how coaching techniques align with and support both personal growth and community development. Our guest, Mai Mahmoud, shares her journey from initial skepticism to embracing coaching as a way of life, deeply integrated with her Islamic faith. The discussion explores the impact of cultural and linguistic context on the adoption of coaching practices and highlights the importance of listening, empowerment, and creating authentic relationships in educational settings.

00:00 Welcome to Inter Being

02:01 Introducing Our Guest: Mai Mahmoud

03:46 Mai's Journey into Coaching

07:39 The Impact of Coaching on Faith and Teaching

23:09 Creating a Coaching Culture in Schools

27:36 Reflections and Future Directions

39:48 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell

Mai Mahmoud is Head of Islamic and Social Studies in The British School Abu Dhabi. She holds a master’s degree in Teaching Methodology, and is passionate about nurturing young learners through faith-based education that emphasizes character, compassion, and connection. One of the most transformative experiences in her journey has been learning to coach, which helped her truly understand and respect the quality of listening — not just as a skill, but as a core value in human development. She blends her love of coaching deeply with Islamic principles that honor empathy, growth, and the dignity of every individual. Through her work,  she aims to create spaces where children feel spiritually grounded and inspired to live with purpose.

You can find us on Linkedin at

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/ 

Diving into the core of coaching, the episode explores its values and impact on individuals and organisations, particularly schools. Our guest, Rob Kemp, shares insights on measuring the impact of coaching, the role of authenticity, and the emerging relationship between AI and coaching. The conversation also touches on the readiness of organisations for coaching and the broader implications of these practices on human connectedness and organizational culture.

00:00 Welcome to Interbeing: A New Season Begins

02:01 Introducing Today's Guest: Rob Kemp

03:34 What Does Being Human Mean to You?

03:59 Authenticity and Relational Coaching

07:54 Deficit vs. Strengths-Based Models in Education

13:36 The Future of Coaching: Revolution or Evolution?

22:35 AI and the Democratization of Coaching

23:40 Six Criteria for Organizational Coaching

25:38 AI's Limitations in Coaching

30:08 Challenges and Misconceptions in Coaching

31:57 Ensuring Organisational Readiness for Coaching

42:42 The Importance of Trust in Coaching

43:19 Final Thoughts and Reflections

A qualified and experienced Coach, Rob Kemp is a Doctor of Coaching & Mentoring, (2021) holding an MSc in Coaching & Mentoring (2013), and a post-graduate certificate in coaching (2005).

He has coaching experience in the public sector, commercial organisations, education, not-for-profit and voluntary organisations. Sector experience in creative and digital industries, life sciences, new technology, low carbon and clean technology, with extensive experience of senior management and directorships in varied organisations, and specific responsibility for performance, learning and development. Rob was previously the large organisation liaison person (LOLP) for the European Mentoring and Coaching Council, and coordinator for East Midlands Regional Network.

You can find Rob’s paper on AI and coaching, written with Tatiana Bachkirova, at https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17521882.2024.2368598#abstract

You can find us on Linkedin at

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

In the fourth series of the MSB podcast, now rebranded as 'Interbeing', the focus returns to coaching and its values in supporting both self-reflection and cultivating generative relationships within educational environments. The term 'inter being,' coined by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, frames this season’s exploration of interconnectedness. 

Hosts Matt and Naomi introduce guest Emma Sheppard, a passionate advocate for family-friendly schools, to discuss the impact of coaching on personal growth and professional development. Emma shares her experiences with coaching, her transition into motherhood, and founding the Maternity Teacher Paternity Teacher (MTPT) Project. The episode delves into the challenges and opportunities for educational institutions to support their staff as multifaceted human beings, emphasizing the importance of listening, presence, and personal fulfillment in fostering a positive and thriving school environment.

00:00 Welcome to Series Four: Exploring Interbeing

02:03 Introducing Emma Shepherd: Advocate for Family Friendly Schools

03:18 The Power of Coaching: Transforming Challenges into Opportunities

08:20 Emma's Journey: From Hopelessness to Empowerment

16:39 Balancing Motherhood and Career: The MTPT Project

26:01 The Role of Coaching in Supporting Parents

30:46 Creating Family Friendly Work Environments

40:59 Concluding Thoughts: The Human Experience in Education

Emma Sheppard founded The Maternity Teacher Paternity Teacher (MTPT) Project, the UK's charity for parent-teachers, whilst on maternity leave with her son in 2016. Having trained through Teach First as an English teacher in 2010, she continued to teach in the British International School, Ho Chi Minh, acting as Head of House, before returning to the UK as Lead Practitioner at an academy in South London. Here, she held responsibility for ITT provision, teaching and learning, and line managed the EAL department. In 2020, Emma began training as a coach with The Coaching Academy, and then relocated to the south of France with her family in 2021 to coach and run The MTPT Project full time.

The MTPT Project is the UK's charity for parent-teachers. From humble beginnings as a blog and a Twitter handle, inspiring, empowering and connecting teachers choosing to complete personal and professional development whilst on parental leave, The MTPT Project has grown into the voice of parent-teachers in the UK.

The charity runs training and networking events, provides 1:1 and group coaching to teachers on leave, and is the only organisation completing research into women aged 30-39 - the largest demographic to leave teaching every year. Since 2016, The MTPT Project has worked to tackle the motherhood penalty in education, to transform education into a sustainable and "life-friendly" career choice for all.

Find out more about MTPT at https://www.mtpt.org.uk/

You can find us on Linkedin at

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/

Welcome to the fourth series of the MSB podcast, now titled Interbeing. This season focuses on how coaching values can support school communities by encouraging inward reflection and outward, generative relationships. Inspired by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s concept of 'inter-being', this series explores the interconnectedness of all things. We engage in conversations with coaches and educators, dissecting where coaching succeeds and where it doesn't. 

This episode, a bonus beginning to our new series, takes us back to our Re:Sourcing Yourself in Uncertain Times online conference in June. We hosted the inimitable Claire Pedrick, founder of 3D coaching and The Coaching Inn podcast, to have a “keynote conversation” with Naomi Ward, our Head of Learning.

It wasn’t at all rehearsed. Naomi and Claire opened the day – not with a speech and cue cards, but with a pause.

In a warm, unhurried conversation, they explored what it means to lead as the human you are, not just the role you play. Claire reminded us that presence often matters more than speed, and that resourcing ourselves is not indulgence but responsibility. Together, they modelled the quiet courage of listening well, noticing what keeps us steady, and letting go of doing more in favour of doing what matters. 

For school leaders holding so much for others, it was a gentle provocation: Who – or what – is holding you?

In this episode, Matt begins with a recitation of Mickey ScottBey Jones's poem about creating 'brave spaces' and discusses the importance of honesty, vulnerability, and simplicity in dialogues. Claire Pedrick and Naomi Ward then lead an in-depth discussion on fostering meaningful conversations in school environments.

00:00 Welcome to Inter Being: Introduction and New Name

02:02 Setting the Tone: Creating a Brave Space

04:29 Introducing Claire: A Journey of Identity and Roles

05:56 The Essence of Conversations: Simplicity and Vulnerability

09:56 Navigating Transformational Conversations

18:51 The Power of Vulnerability in Leadership

24:35 Practical Tips for Effective Communication

38:36 Resourcing and Support: Personal Insights

40:55 Conclusion: Reflecting on the Dialogue

You can find us on Linkedin at

Claire Pedrick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairepedrick/

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Re:Sourcing Yourself in Uncertain Times: https://makingstuffbetter.com/resourcing-yourself-in-a-time-of-uncertainty/

Interbeing 2026:https://makingstuffbetter.com/interbeing/

Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/ and Kyra Kellawan

Many teachers want to make changes, but feel confined by the requirements of curricula and assessment. In this episode, our round table guests discuss their goals for the future of assessment, and how you can effect change even within the current system.

Tia Court-Smith (she/her) - A love of learning and facilitating learning for all ages brought me to teaching later than many. Recipient of the Ted Wragg Award during my PGCE I was trusted to lead a team in a wonderful school during my (then) NQT year. An amazing leader gave me the opportunity to question, collaborate and make things better for our amazing young people. I strive to do the same as a school leader who is now learning, working and loving life at an international school in Bangkok. 

Elizabeth Solomon is an Anglo-Indian Jew raised raised between Mumbai, London, and Jerusalem. With over 20 years of IB teaching experience, she has lectured on postcolonial literature and taught IB English and Individuals & Societies in Japan and China. Currently working at the ISF Academy in Hong Kong for 14 years, she leads the International Mindedness PLC and is also an IB assessment author. Elizabeth is pursuing DEIJ certification and is an active member of AIELOC and the International School Anti-Discrimination Task Force. Speaking as a classroom teacher and mother of twins navigating the IB Diploma, she focuses on the realities of assessment for IB students.

Originally from Glasgow, Dariush Saheli began his teaching career in Bolton, England. In 2019 he and his young family moved to Kerala, India, where he rose to Head of Senior School at GEMS Education. He now leads the Seria Campus at International School Brunei.

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Find out more about MSB and download our paper, Futures-Focused Leadership for International Schools, at www.makingstuffbetter.com

Contact the team about our Futures-Focused Pledge at https://zcal.co/t/makingstuffbetter/talktotheteam

You can find us on Linked in at

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/