Deep inside Australia’s foreign policy and defence establishment, there are whispers that we should be considering an unsettling thought – we could soon be dealing with a second Donald Trump presidency.

He’s facing dozens of indictments and the charges carry the potential for hundreds of years in jail, but none of it is denting his popularity with Republican voters.

Today, associate editor of The Saturday Paper Martin McKenzie-Murray, on Trump, Australia’s dependence on America and the future of our alliance.

Socials: Stay in touch with us on Twitter and Instagram

Guest: Associate editor of The Saturday Paper, Martin McKenzie-Murray

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.