In this episode, Matthew Chang and Colin Russ go head to head on one of the most debated questions in workforce development: is college still worth it, and what should the next generation of American builders actually do? 

If you care about workforce, education, manufacturing, trades, or the future of American industry, this one is for you. 

What we cover 

• Why student loan debt is the core distortion driving the college problem, and what happens when universities have no skin in the game 
• How Jacksonville University cut from 100 degree programs to 43, and why that's the right move 
• Why Google, Palantir, and Hadrian are already telling kids to skip college, and what that signals 
• The case for trades: compressed path to entrepreneurship, real skills, and why Gen Z actually wants to build things 
• Matt's advice for every 16-year-old: build a website, get certifications, and stop waiting on a four-year degree to start 

Chapters 

00:00 College vs. Trades Debate 03:10 Student Loans and Hobby Degrees 08:29 Tech Change and Trade Pathways 19:45 Fixing Incentives in Higher Ed 23:23 Alternative Paths and Career Flexibility 27:48 Advice for Teens and Parents 

Find Matthew Chang: https://x.com/MatthewChang https://www.instagram.com/the.matthewchang https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewachang/ https://www.tiktok.com/@the.matthewchang 

Find Colin Russ: https://x.com/ThaaatColin https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinruss/ 

Find Chang Robotics: https://changrobotics.ai https://www.linkedin.com/company/changrobotics/ 

Follow ReForge 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-reforge-podcast/ 

X: https://x.com/thereforgepod 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thereforgepod/ 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thereforgepod 

Website: https://thereforgepodcast.com/ 

Want to be a guest or partner? 

If you're building, funding, operating, or shaping the future of U.S. manufacturing, we'd love to hear from you. Email: [email protected] 

About ReForge 

ReForge is a podcast featuring conversations with the leaders reindustrializing America. This show exists to prove American reindustrialization is possible, pivotal, and pressing. Hosted by Matthew Chang and Colin Russ. 

Produced by Chang Robotics.