Before we get to today’s podcast.
There are photos that shouldn’t exist. Period. This one is of the entrance to our shul, a small community, with the names of the two young men it has lost in this war. Hersh Goldberg-Polin z”l on the right, and the sign regarding Yuval Shoham’s z”l funeral and shiva on the left.
But this is Hanukkah, and we deserve some miracles, too. If there’s a central question that Hanukkah is about (and there are several, actually), it is:
“Why are all the peoples who sought to destroy us now gone, while we are still here?”
The answer to that question is complex. But the stories of Israelis like Roee Azizi are, without question, a central part of it.
Here’s his.
Zionist leaders have always understood that one of the many factors that would shape the future of the Jewish state was who was willing to live on the borders. David Ben-Gurion, in a move that made sense for the state but that was suffused with racism and a worse than disparaging attitude to immigrants from North Africa, Iraq and Iran, sent many thousands of immigrants to encampments (ma’abarot) that today are cities, most of them still poor: Kiryat Malakhi. Sderot. Dimona. Many more.
Ben-Gurion famously said that it was “in the Negev that the Israeli people will be tested,” meaning that their future would depend on whether enough Israelis would have the fortitude and commitment to move to a place that was barely habitable, simply because it was what the country needed.
When he left politics, Ben-Gurion did just that. He picked up and moved to Sde Boker, where he is buried today, his grave and that of his wife overlooking the desert he so deeply believed in.
That was then, but what about now?
What about the south—the Gaza envelope—which was largely destroyed in the worst catastrophe this country has ever seen? What about the north, from which some 75,000-100,000 have been moved, in which Metula has been essentially destroyed, where Kiryat Shemonah is a ghost town, and hundreds of homes, businesses and parks have been burned beyond repair by Hezbollah weapons?
In what kind of a world would anyone who is not from there even think about moving there? Roee Azizi is making sure that that’s exactly what happens. As we hear in our conversation, after October 7, Roee decided that he needed to do something that mattered. And since then, he put the rest of his life on hold and has gotten hundreds of people who’d never lived there to move to the south. Now he’s planning on getting thousands to go to the north.
Lighting candles in the darkness is one way of bringing light to this world. Roee Azizi’s commitment is another.
The link at the top of this posting will take you to the full recording of our conversation; below you will find a transcript, prepared specially for our paid subscribers, for those who prefer to read.
We're meeting with someone today who I'm really very grateful for taking the time to come to Jerusalem and to have this conversation. And I'm also very grateful on a personal level because we need good news and we need to be inspired. And we're getting good news in the north. It's quieting down, and we're getting some good news in the northeast because things are shifting there, and that may be very good for Israel. And militarily, things are starting to go to go better. But the Jewish people in a state of shock in Israel and outside of Israel. It's been a very, very rough haul for 14 months for Jews all over the world. And I'm sitting with someone today who I think really brings back to my mind, at least, classic, wondrous Zionist inspiration. I'm sitting with a young man in his late 20s, an Israeli, Roee Azizi, who will tell us more about himself in just a minute. He is involved in many many projects. We're going to talk about one of them today called Hinenu, which if it sounds to you a little bit like Hineni, you're onto something, and we'll come back to that in a minute.
I think you're going to leave this conversation, perhaps, if you're my age, wishing you were 30 years younger, so you could participate in what he and his colleagues are building. And either way, even if you're not young enough to do what he's doing, just to be very grateful and inspired for what this younger generation of Israelis feels, does, believes in, and so forth. So, Roee, first First of all, thank you very much for taking the time to be here. Let's just start by tell us about you. Who is Roee Azizi? Tell us how you grew up, where you grew up, what family, military, all that stuff.
First of all, it's a pleasure. If that intro wasn't recorded, I would not believe that I have been introduced in this way. So thank you. Roee, I'm 28. I grew up in Hod Hasharon, in the center of Israel.
Not far from Tel Aviv-ish. Yeah.
But I grew up to a traditional family, Masorati family. Two parents, both of them were originally from Iran.
But they didn't know each other in Iran, did they?
They didn't. My mom actually grew up in Teheran until she was 17.
And she came back in the '50s?
She made Aliyah in '72.
Oh, right before the Revolution?
Right before the Revolution. A few years before the Revolution.
The Revolution is '79. Exactly. So they came a few years before. True. Okay, so she was a teenager.
She decided at 17 to come here with her nine siblings and her parents.
Wow.
They grew up there in the poorest and worst situation I can imagine. Actually, she didn't even tell me those stories of her growing up because she didn't want me to suffer hearing those stories. But that was the reality of the family. Growing up, 11 people in one bedroom, basically. So they made it here. And yeah, so I'm the son of my mom and my dad.
And your dad came when?
He was born in Israel.
Okay, but his parents came from Teheran. And they came when?
They came, I think, the late '40s.
Oh, so part of that whole massive Aliyah, when Israel was trying to bring people in. Okay, so I'm assuming you're not one of eleven children. I'm just going to go out on a limb and guess here.
You're right. It's me and my brother.
Okay. That's a quite a change for your mother to be one of 11 siblings or 12 siblings, and then they'd have two kids.
Exactly. Yeah.
Okay. You grew up in Hod Hasharon.
I grew up in Hod Hasharon, and I had a normal life as a kid. When I was 18, I got recruited to be a parachuting instructor. And afterwards, I served also as a planning officer in the parachuting school.
How long were you in?
For three years.
You did the full three?
Yeah. After three years, I actually flew to America for my first time to be a shaliach (emissary) in Ramah Wisconsin. So that was a unique experience. Actually, it was the first time I experienced the Jewish diaspora, which was amazing for me as a Jewish person to be exposed to this amazing, diverse community or communities. So it was an incredible experience. Actually, I went twice. So I went back in 2019. And then I moved to Jerusalem to study in the Hebrew University, Political Science and International Relations. And really, I fell in love with Jerusalem. I felt like it's my first home. It was closer to the identity or the character of my family than the place I grew up in.
That's very interesting.
Yeah. The colors of Jerusalem, the tradition, the warmth of the people. So I fell in love with the city, and immediately it came into play as I turned out to be a social activist in Jerusalem. I must say that the reality in those days, 2019, COVID, and also the political atmosphere in Israel created a lot of opportunities to be able to be involved. So I found myself just basically dedicating my daily life to Jerusalem, to social action here, to volunteering in the market, in the shuk, or in other different projects. I was also a part of Stand With Us alumni program, and everything was in parallel to studying in the Hebrew U. After a few years-
Where did that come from? Where does a young social... I mean, Hebrew U is a very serious university. There's a lot of work. Hebrew University students take a ton of courses at the same time. It's not like the American model. You take four or five courses, and that's a full load. Here, it's twice that, maybe. Where does this drive to become a social activist come from? Because it's really connected to the story that we're going to talk about in a minute about Hinenu. I'm just curious because there are so many of you, obviously, and it's part of the DNA of Israeli society. Were your parents social activists? Did they tell you you should be social activists? Did you have in a youth movement? When you get into bed at the end of the day and you ask yourself, How did I become a social activist? What answer do you give yourself?
First of all, I still try not to describe myself as a social activist.
You just did, though. I didn't make it up. You said it.
No, you're right. It's my mistake. But people seek meaning. And young adults in Israel, especially after the army service, they ask themselves, again, in my view, how can I live a life of meaning? How can I live the life I was given? And what can I do in light of this huge mission of what I believe is the Israeli society is experiencing, not only after October 7th, which we'll go longer and describe, but also before October 7th? I mean, it's hard to remember, but we had a few years of political clashes, of social divides. We had a lot of problems, and most of them we're still experiencing. So I think that after I When I finished my army service, I asked myself, Okay, you're 21, and you're looking ahead 5, 10, 20 years ahead, and you're asking yourself, What can you do in order to be a contributor to your society? And what can you do in order to be another part of the bigger mission that we're facing as a society and as a people in general. Let's call it the, whatever, the amorphic or the spiritual side of it. The more practical side of it is me meeting role models, people who are amazing and really shaped me.
I think I've been blessed in the last 10 years, at least, to be surrounded by people who are incredible and really give me the inspiration myself to try to be active.
So you graduate, you finish Hebrew U, you're living in Jerusalem, you're a social activist. Then there's COVID, so everybody shuts down. And then there's the judicial reform period period, which is a very tumultuous period in Israeli society, which brings us, we'll skip a few things, to 2023. On October 6th, 2023, if we had had a conversation, I'd say to you, what are you up to in life on October 6th? What's the answer?
I'm running the Jerusalem Model, which is a community of civic society leaders, approximately 200 of them, very diverse, by the way, Jewish and non-Jewish all across Jerusalem, with the vision of creating a a civic society in the city that really creates hope and creates a model for a Jerusalem diverse society that's both diverse and prosperous. So that's professionally. Personally, I probably would have told you that in the last few years, I felt personally, but obviously talking nationally about the situation, that the much the situation gets worse and more dangerous, the more I feel committed to be involved in doing good.
There's a phrase in America, I think it may be an army phrase, I'm not quite sure, but it says, When the going gets tough, the tough get going. I don't know exactly where that phrase comes from. But you're saying the more you saw the nature of the trauma or the desperate need for something in Israel, the more you became committed to doing stuff. So you're running this Jerusalem Model.
So I'm running the Jerusalem Model. And I'm afraid of the situation in Israel.
What are you worried about? October 6th, I find you somewhere before Shabbat on a Friday, and I said to you, We have a cup of coffee on a Friday morning, and you tell me you're worried about the future of Israel? What are you worried about?
First of all, I'm worried about the near future. I'm worried because of two things. First of all, the gap or dissonance between the corruption of the politicians and the way that they're disconnected from the people. That's one thing. Obviously, the second thing is they divide between themselves, the politicians. Eventually, they run our life here. That's one thing. The next thing which worries me even more, is the fact that people in my generation, on October 6th, at least, 2023, they say, Okay, I've been living my life here the past 20, 25, 30 years, and I feel like I'm living in a continual crisis. Also, it's a multi-system crisis because it's really hard to live here in a lot of ways. It's really expensive to live here. In a lot of ways, it's a bit dangerous to live here. I mean, the security situation is unclear also up until October 6th. Socially, the divide is getting worse. Again, politically, I'm looking at my generation and I'm I'm saying people will, chas v'chalila (God forbid), say, Okay, I'm rid of it. I'm done. I'm done. I'll pack my things, I'll move to Thailand, or I move to the US, or people will say, I'm done and I'm going to stay here, but I'm probably going I'm not going to be focused on my personal lives.
I'm going to build my startup, and I'll live in Tel Aviv, and I'll drive my nice car, and the country will do whatever the country does.
It doesn't mean that people will not be willing to contribute to the state. People will still pay taxes. If they build a startup, it's great for the local economy. But mentally or consciously, people will say, I'm done. I can't keep resisting the national crisis that's been tearing us apart. And that was the hardest thing for me to imagine, that the young generation that's supposed to be the future of the state or the society is really losing hope and feeling this frustration and depression or desperation of the situation.
Friday, October 6th, let's say you and I, right now, I'm half a kilometer from here in Baka. We go to one of those nice cafés. I don't want to talk about your generation. I want to talk about you for a second. On October 6th in the morning on a Friday, it's during the chagim period. It's right before Simchat Torah. I say to you, How optimistic are you about this country? What would you have said to me on October 6th?
Very optimistic. And I'll try to phrase it actually in realistic terms. During the three, four years where we had the ongoing elections- Every six months. Every six months. My friends who work in high tech, and they're not really in the whatever, political or public conscience, or they're not really aware of the situation. They used to tell me, Roee, what's going on? What's your perspective? They used to come to me like, I'm a shaliach, or whatever. But what do you think is going to happen? I told them, Listen, I think in the near future, Also, looking at it as if life is made up of this pendulum swing. In the near future, the politicians keep dragging us to this extreme point on the pendulum swing. And I think that my generation, me personally, but we as a generation, because of the fact that we grow up during those 10, 15 years in that atmosphere, we will eventually say, we're tired of it. We're not able to carry it anymore. And we will be the generation that uses that energy in order to try to shift the pendulum into a more balanced way. So in the near future, I'm worried.
To be more honest, before October 7th and after the famous Yariv Levin-Judicial reform stuff. Judicial reform stuff. I knew that danger is coming. I knew that something will break because physically, being in that extreme point is unsustainable. Reality can't continue going that extreme point. I knew that something was going to happen. Unfortunately, the worst has happened. That's me on October 7th, 2023.
October 6th. Okay, then October 7th happens. 7th, 8th, 9th. Everything What happens? What happens to you?
On Shabbat, I'm with friends up north, actually, and we're without signal in our phones. We have no idea what's going on on Shabbat morning. On It's only around 10:00 or 11:00 AM, we're going out to an area with signal and we realize what's going on. Immediately, we drive down south. All of us serve as reserves. My friends go to their army bases. I go down south near the Otef, actually, near the Gaza envelope in Be'er Sheva, in Pikud Darom.
The Southern Command. Yeah.
I arrived in my base already at 2:00 PM or 3:00 PM. So we rushed all the way there. And I come there and I realize what's going on. And by the way, I don't serve, again, in the parachuting school. I serve in a more classified role in Modiin, in the intelligence unit. And I realized that we're experiencing an historical event, historical strategy, that I think we will never be able to understand the size of it. I remember were feeling or experiencing that feeling of historical times. And it took me a few days to realize that that crisis also when there is opportunity. And I remember myself thinking at night that I personally feel an inner calling that because of the level or the magnitude of the disaster, me personally, I have to be involved in any way in creating the opportunity that waits in the day after. I remember it was basically the first or second week after October 7th. I remember texting to friends like, Listen, I don't know when, but on the first stop or vacation that I will have from Miluim, from the reserves, I will pack my stuff from Jerusalem, leave my job, leave my friends, leave everything him behind and move to living in the Gaza envelope. And only in retrospect, and I'll obviously will elaborate, but only in retrospect, I understood that it was an inner calling that relied or sat in this value of solidarity and achva, the feeling of pain due to what people experienced in the Otef, and the feeling of dedication to come to a part of it. Those were the first weeks of October.
So this is in your blood. I mean, what becomes eventually Hinenu, and you'll talk about it in a second. So what becomes eventually Hinenu is already in your head. I mean, almost immediately. It's just the instinct that you have. And the idea is to move down to the Otef, reminding everybody that Otef means the Gaza envelope. So the Otef is where all the people seem that we're attacked are. It's all the way along the border. And to move there. You're going to move there. What do you say to yourself? I'm going to move there because why? Hizdahut, identification with these people or people are killed, so they need more bodies. If somebody had said to you, you tell your mom, I'm going to go down and move to the Otef. And let's say she's not going to raise issues of safety, security. She trusts you on that. But she would say to you, Why? Like kol hakavod, I'm all for it. I'll bake you cakes. I'll bring you cakes. It's all good. But why do you want to do it? What are you hoping to accomplish? What would you have said?
I must say that I knew that it's a duty, that it's not, let's call it a security duty or whatever. I didn't feel like if I'll make it there, I will be an engine immediately. But I knew that I have to be this pioneer who proves that it's not only possible, but it's necessary to do that step. I feel like I knew that it's a social mission. It's a social Zionist call or inner calling to come and just be a part without any rash and tziltzulim.
Without any making a big trararama about it. I don't know to say rash and tziltzulim, but that's the idea.
Yeah, without any public call, just to come myself yourself and do it.
When was the first time that you began to speak to friends about doing this?
The first week after October 7th.
So you already had the head in your head, and then you said to your friends, Come be meshuga with me.
Before, I said, Listen, I don't know why, but I feel this inner feeling that tells me that as soon as I'll have this break from the reserves, I will pack my stuff in Jerusalem and just move. In that uncertainty, without knowing why. As you mentioned, it's just probably a Zionist instinct.
Oh, that's a big deal.
Yeah. I did it in December last year, December 2023, when the western Negev is still obviously at war and the area is evacuated. The kibbutzim, Sderot, Ofakim, most of the people are not there. I made it to Sderot, packing my stuff in Jerusalem, leaving my job, telling my boss that I have to leave, that that's the call that I feel. I moved to Sderot, and I made it to a city that's been obviously neglected- for a long time. .
We'll just give people a little bit of background because people don't really know. Sderot started out as what's called the ma'abara. It had ma'abarot. The ma'abarot, Ben Gurion actually created the ma'abarot. There's a lot of movies that were made, or Ephraim Kishon made movies about this. Anyway, there were all of these ma'abarot. They were basically They were shacks made out of metal, mostly. And that's where they put all the thousands and thousands and thousands of immigrants who came to Israel, mostly from North Africa and Iraq and Iran and Yemen. And they put them in these little places which were situated for security reasons all along the border. And they were horrible. The level of disease was horrible. Just to give you a little bit of historical background. They're made out of metal. So in the summer, it is just beastly unbearably hot. In the winter, they literally flood with mud. These are the places where, whether it's true or not, the claims are made that this is where children disappeared from, Yemenite children, quote, unquote, disappeared from these places. And some people argue that they were then given to Ashkenazi families who couldn't have children.
Yaacov Lozowic, who has been on our podcast and was once the chief archivist of Israel State Archives, did a tremendous amount of research about it and said, It's just not true. It didn't happen. Kids died because they were taken to the hospital and they died, and paperwork was terrible, and it's very possible that families didn't get their kid back. But he really believes that the story about people being taken away and given is not true. I hope it's not true. The ma'abarot eventually become just really poor cities. So you have they wrote, you have actually Talpiyot, which is about a five-minute walk from where you and I are sitting right now. I mean, now it's a bustling part of Jerusalem. But Talpiyot was a ma'abara. And there's all kinds of them all across the Negev. I just want people to understand when you say you go to Sderot, and Sderot has been neglected not only from Gaza, rockets since 2005, Sderot has been neglected since 1940, whatever it was when it was created. So that's a very long interruption, and I apologize for it. But I think it's just important for people to understand Sderot has been a horror show for a very, very long time. All right, so you moved to Sderot. There's nobody there, right? I mean, it's abandoned?
It's basically abandoned. It's evacuated.
Where did you go to sleep that night?
I had a sublet. I found a sublet, and I stayed there for a few weeks. And in those few weeks, I met people who were around, people who had farmers and people who were a part of the security forces around. And I tried to ask myself in parallel to meeting reading them in parallel to reading about the history of the western Negev, you mentioned Ben Gurion, and you mentioned, obviously, the situation of Sderot and the kibbutzim, and I've started to really connect the dots and really to understand that the reality that we've experienced before October 7th led to October 7th. There's a direct link, unfortunately.
Between what and what?
Between the reality that we experienced as a society before October Before October 7th, there's a direct link between that and-
You mean a division inside of Israel because of judicial reform.
Exactly.
Just to remind our listeners, in case people may have missed this episode, we interviewed Ari Shavit, who, as you know, is obviously one of Israel's leading journalists. And Ari wrote in print, he said, Keep this up and we are going to get attacked. Now, he thought it was going to be from Lebanon. And he told me he lives in Kfar Shmaryahu, and I interviewed him at his house. And he He said when the sirens went off that morning, and his wife said to him, What the hell is this? He said to her, It's the third Lebanon war. Now, he was wrong. It wasn't the third Lebanon war. It was something much different and bigger, and Lebanon eventually became part of it. But he, like you, he said, This can't go on. You can't have this division. Our enemies are looking at us. They see us divided. They see us split up. They see us weak. They're going to jump. He thought it would be Nasrallah, and then it was Hamas. Okay, so you had a sense that this was going to... We brought this on ourselves, indirectly. We brought this on ourselves.
I agree. To be honest, I'm nothing compared to Ari Shavit, but I remember-
That's not true, by the way, but okay.
I remember telling to friends that I'm sure that Netanyahu will start a war in order to shift the public atmosphere or the public, whatever, focus from the judicial form. I I was sure that he will start. Obviously, now, in retrospect, I'm sorry that he didn't. But anyway, so I meet people over there in western Negev after I've moved, and I'm starting to connect the dots, and I understand the direct link between the reality before and after. And I realized, again, that my generation is suffering from that long term crisis, multi-system crisis that puts a big question mark on our future here in Israel. But in that stage, I'm telling myself, of, all right, October 7th must serve as a tectonic event that really marks the historic Zionist mission of my generation, of us understanding that the reality that we experienced before October 7th is unsustainable, and we must take responsibility for the future, for the stability, for the prosperity of us as a society, even before thinking about the state, I mean, in terms of politically.
And then when I realized that, looking back 75 years back to the establishment of Israel, I realized that the Zionist mission was to really to form a state, to create a miklat, to create a secure place for the Jewish people. But I think that the attention to building a society wasn't there. And I think that my generation, we experienced, But also due to global effects and global trends that create divides in societies, we must understand that it's our mission, and it's our Zionist chapter in the history of our people to really come to be a in a way.
A model society. Exactly.
The practical, whatever, understanding of that spirit was that even though the situation is sensitive in the western Negev, and even though there's big uncertainty in the area, I must call my generation and basically try to leverage that inner calling into a public calling and say to youngsters across Israel, It's time to say Hineni. It's time to say Hineni personally, but Hinenu as a generation.
Hineni, here I am. That's what Abraham said when God called him. That's what Moses said when God called him. It's a word that appears in the Bible several times when somebody answers the call.
Exactly.
And so Hineni is the singular, Hinenu is the plural, and the name of the organization that you found it is Hinenu.
Exactly. And I realized that I must try to create a movement, and I tried to do it in a very modest way.
A movement that's going to do what?
Really encourage young adults from across Israel, religious, secular, from the right, from the left, to come and just be a part of the local communities in the rest of Negev.
In the Otef?
In the Otef.
And young adult means?
Means 24 to 35, let's say, approximately.
Okay.
Singles, couples, families.
How many did you hope would come down?
Wow. At the beginning, I remember posting on Facebook and LinkedIn I remember calling this, whatever, I gave it that topic, like young adults are moving to the rest of Negev. I called my vision and I said, It's our time to just try to leverage our inner feeling in into an action and come and live here. Just be a part of the communities. We didn't want to, chas v'chalila, replace the communities that were evacuated. We didn't want to come and build whatever a new society over there. We wanted to come and be a part in a very humble, modest way, and just come for the long term, not only to come for a few months to whatever, volunteer in agriculture or stuff. Just really come and be a part of the local communities. And the reason I understood that I should create this movement, that it's eventually become to a regional community of young adults in the western Negev, is because I also wanted to create this social project that really tells the rest of the society, Listen, there's hundreds of young adults who made it to live here. They're very diverse. They have their own background and political aspirations or thoughts, and they really decided to become a part of a community that works for a bigger goal and create bridges between people from different backgrounds.
And this is how the Israeli society can look like. It can look like a diverse Zionist community of people who are living a life of meaning and giving for a bigger thought or a bigger goal and really puts aside the divide or whatever.
Okay, so on January 30th, 2024, a month or two after you begin to do your Facebook thing, I bump into you in the street and I say, How's it going? How many people are you planning to get to come down there? What would you have said?
I was a bit realistic, unfortunately, and I said, Listen, let's imagine half a year from now in Rosh HaShana in October 2024, I hope that we'll have 30 who already moved, really for long term, decided to move.
And on Rosh HaShana 2024, how many had moved?
Approximately 70.
70? And as of today?
We have approximately 120. And they're only part of my movement. There are also other young adults who moved just independently.
And these people are living where? And what are they doing, and are they getting jobs in the local economies there? Are they working remotely and just living there? What's the story with these people? Yeah.
So all of the above, really. But again, people who are, let's say, between 23 to 35, singles, family, couples, couples, mostly singles and couples. Some of them work regionally, some of them work nationally, I mean, from afar. I think that most of them work in the, let's call it the social sector, whether it's in informal education or formal education, whether it's in the more medical professions. So people who are obviously needed in that region.
And are they having trouble finding jobs? Or they're getting jobs fairly easily?
So let's say one of the practical things that I've done in the last half a year or a year is not only to calling people to move and listen to my vision, but also to helping people with practical needs that I didn't have when I moved, which means trying to help people find jobs, apartments, and to build a community. So people, when they do that step, they won't be by themselves. So we managed to help people find some employment, and we managed to help people find an apartment, and they live in the kibbutzim, and they live in the moshavim. The Gaza envelope, the west of Negev, is a region that approximately in miles, let's say it's about 40 miles from north to south. In Israeli sizes, it's pretty much big. So people live all across the area. And now once we have 120 who already moved, we're really creating this regional community of young adults that's made up both of those newcomers and locals. You young adults who grew up there and ask themselves, should I stay to live here after October 7th? And I want to try to convince them to stay.
Because we're joining you.
Exactly. Be partners of the community that we're creating here. And maybe professionally or socially or from other motivations, it will give you the motivation to stay here and build your family here. And in that way, that community of Hinenu will be able to really contribute to the local, to the regional strength and resilience.
So you would originally hoped you'd get 30, and then by Rosh HaShana, you had 70. Now there's 120. And I want to talk about the north in a minute also, because you have your eyes on the north, where there's been tremendous devastation and destruction that people don't really understand. Metulah has been wiped out. Maybe Metulah doesn't exist, and Kiryat Shmonah is very badly banged up. We'll come back to the north in a second. If we meet a year from now, what are we in December? So we meet towards the end of 2025, realistically. Based on how it's going so far? What do you think it's going to look like? What do you hope it's going to look like?
Looking at the south, I hope that we will be able to shape even more the mechanism that we've created. And not only that we will have a prosperous community of young adults in the western Negev, we will also have that mechanism that really creates job opportunities in the western Negev, creates housing opportunities over there, obviously in collaboration with the regional councils and other actors. But I hope that we will be able to be a significant agent of hope in the region, where young adults who move there see it both as just an opportunity to live a happy life. Not only a life of spirituality or Zionist mission, but just living a good quality of life, but also, obviously, a life of meaning. So that's in the south. Looking up north-
Before you get to the north, I just want to point something you said, which I love. People of being agents of hope. We always talk about being agents of change. That's a common phrase. This idea of being agents of hope is really a beautiful idea. I mean, that's really a beautiful idea. I want to ask you one quick question about these people. How do they break down left, right, religious, secular, all that stuff?
Pretty much diverse. I would assume that most of them are either religious or used to be religious. So obviously grew up on-
Most of them were religious or used to be religious.
Yeah. I mean, I assume that most of them grew up on Zionist values. So they see that mission or they felt that inner calling. I would say, obviously, that most of them served as reserved. I'm sure that some of them also fought in Gaza.
So obviously felt physical connection to that area and wanted to fulfill that, whatever.
Yeah, to fulfill that mission also civically. So they're diverse, some religious, some secular, some masorati like me. So just in middle. But all of them are, in a way, have decided to dedicate their life or their future for this mission. And I must say also, the reason that I see them and us as agents of hope is because the major problem that I witnessed, experience, and see is this problem of desperation. When the future generation see no hope or see no positive, optimistic future to the state, then people either, again, decide to leave or to live and stay. People who feel desperation and decide to be a part of the Hinenu, they basically do it because they seek meaning and they seek society, they seek community.
They want to be a part of something that's bigger than them. We know it's based on Obviously, researchers, we know that it turns life into a happier life, so it's not surprising.
Which, of course, by the way, is a lot of what motivated the people who founded those kibbutzim to found those kibbutzim. Exactly. Ironically, It's the same thing. We're going to go to the north for a second in a minute. But I know that since you and I first met a couple of months ago and began talking about this, and you were teaching me about your project, you've had losses. You've had two, at least, partners who were part of this project who, unfortunately, aren't with us anymore. I think it says a tremendous amount about Israel. If you just say just their names and who they were and what happened to them, both in their memory, but also to give our listeners a reminder, though. I don't know, maybe you and I met two months ago, whatever. It wasn't that long ago. And already in that short time, in this very small movement, there has been lost. Can you just say just a couple of sentences about those two people? Yeah.
So again, it's part of our bigger movement of hundreds of young adults, we had people who served in the IDF as reserves and both as duty reserve. We had Eitan Oster, who fell in the battle entering into Lebanon as part of his unit, Egoz.
That was when eight people were killed, I think, right?
Exactly.
Right at the very, very beginning of the Lebanon.
Exactly.
So that was considered a huge disaster.
Eitan really saw himself as a shaliach of Zionism, as a modern shaliach of Zionism. Really, he was amazing. Together with him, we also had Yonatan Deutsch, who was really a promising young leader, promising young leader who saw our bigger movement, Tikvatenu, our hope. He saw that movement as really as a promising movement for Israel in general, a national promise. And he got murdered in a pigua.
In a terrorist attack.
In a terrorist attack.
Shortly after getting released from the army.
Exactly. Shortly after getting released from a special unit that he was a part of and after serving more than a year in Gaza. So yeah, a few days before that, he got murdered in the Bik'a.
In the Jordan River Valley.
Exactly. And they're just two parts of, I would say, thousands and thousands of young Israelis who have decided to to jump on October 7th and just see it as their life duty to save us as a society and as a people. And they really, they fulfilled that mission, and we lost so many of them. And in another interview that I've had, I said that I hope that in every abducted civilian that we've had, and And in every soldier that we've lost, and we've lost a lot of them, we will have one young adult who will decide to move either to the south or to the north and just be a part of this Zionist mission that we're trying to accomplish. Again, because it's a social mission. It's a mission that's made up of solidarity. I'm hoping that they see us from-
A quick word or two about the north, just so people understand what your plans are there, and then we'll conclude.
Yeah. So again, we're experiencing these historical times, what happens in Syria now and the ceasefire in Lebanon. And really, I'll say that I hope that the Israeli state and the Israeli politicians will be smart and great enough to even try to forge peace in Lebanon and Syria.
But in parallel, we still have the approximately 80,000 people who are evacuated from their homes in the north, and they're waiting to come back. And we, as Hinenu, we're looking up north. I actually drive tomorrow for a few days over there to meet the mayors over there and to try to really map out and learn the situation in the region. And I hope that if we will be needed, we will try to have a major movement of thousands of youngsters. Thousands? Thousands. I thought about hundreds in the beginning, but I spoke with some people who told me, Roee, you probably will need to bring thousands. Because unfortunately, there's a fear that thousands won't come back.
They're very clear that they're not going back, a lot of people.
Exactly. And again, we don't want to replace them, but we're in touch with the local communities over there. And if the local communities will say, We want you, we want Hinenu, we want young adults to come and live here with us, then we will encourage young adults from across Israel to come. So exactly in those days, in those weeks, we will decide whether we start this strategic move also up north. And then I hope we will have thousands of young adults who are part of those regional communities we have in Hinenu, both south and north, and really serve as pioneers of our days who are really trying to burn in hope and to try to show us as a society, we have hope. We have young adults who take responsibility for our prosperity, for our future. And also, I hope that it will be able to serve in front of our politicians to tell them, Listen, you're too detached. You have to understand what this generation is trying to boil and create. That's my dream for the near future.
So I'm going to ask you one last question that I wasn't planning to ask you, but as you speak, I am sure it is on the mind of 80% of the people who are listening to you and being inspired to. What are your political aspirations? Are we going to have Prime Minister Azizi?
I don't think so. I don't see myself as-
Because you're the person that we need. This generation of people... Let me put it different now instead of putting you on the spot. Do you have a sense that among these people, the hundreds who have moved down south and the thousands that you think are going to move to the north, we're going to see new political leadership emerge from this soon?
I'm sure.
You're positive.
I'm positive. Again, the sense of taking responsibility cannot remain only on the social sector. I think that the generation of our parents, and they actually say it, they were focused on promoting and building the social and economical and other sectors. And a lot of good people from that generation have decided to keep their hands out of the political sector. And we, as a generation, understand the price that is as a result of that decision of the past generation. We realized that we have to be a part of it. We have to turn... Being a politician is being a public servant. It must be the duty of the best people in Israel. I hope that we will be able to bring up this new generation of leaders who will really serve as national leaders of our society and of our people. I must mention before we end, I must mention the Jewish diaspora in this heroic actions, not only in contributing funds to allow huge strategic things that happen here, but also in doing Aliya. One of the big projects that I'm planning now, and maybe it's a call to action for our listeners, I'm working in a project.
We're building a project that we call Aliya la'negev or Aliya la'tzafon, and we aim to encourage young adults from all across the Jewish diaspora who are considering doing Aliyah and maybe experienced anti-Semitic actions during the last year and a half or during life in general, to really come and do that step and be a part of our communities in the south, and hopefully also in the north. And only then, only after we'll have those communities who are actually diverse, of Zionist Jewish people from Israel and from the diaspora, only then we will have this best model of society,, Zionist creation that really can bring hope. So to end, I'm really calling young adults from all across the Jewish people across the world to be a part of Hinenu.
That would be amazing. You're amazing, and your vision is amazing, and you and your colleagues are doing extraordinary things. And you're a huge gift to Israel, obviously. You're a huge gift to Zionism, but you're really also a gift to us. Because as I said at the outset, these are tough times, and we can do doomscrolling. We can spend too much time on our phone reading the wrong articles and get into bed at night and think, My God, this place is really just in very deep trouble. And listening to people like you just reassures us that there is a generation here in a reservoir of talent, belief, hope, inspiration. We're going to be okay. Because for people like you, we know we're going to be okay. And I could not be more grateful to you for the time. And I look forward to our next conversation.
And just to end with a blessing, we have 100 abducted people who are still in Gaza, and hopefully in the near future, in the near time, now they'll come back home.
Amen. Nothing more important. Thank you for bringing that up.
Thank you.
This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit danielgordis.substack.com/subscribe
