**Producer's note: The brothers are hosting their first livestream! It will be a Patreon-exclusive Q&A so only supporters of the show can submit questions or watch live. Sign up for as little as $5 a month and access all the great bonus content**

The brothers welcome legal scholar Noura Erekat to the show to discuss how the Gaza genocide has threatened to end the "rules-based international order;” the failure of international legal institutions to take meaningful action to stop the genocide; the collapse of Israel’s standing and reputation in Western societies; and how to retain "infallible optimism" despite the most disturbing assessments of the status quo.

Watch the video edition on our YouTube channel Date of recording: May 20, 2025.

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