The second of two episodes sharing our stories as hosts...

Rebecca  introduces  Dannie-Lu:

"In this episode, it's our turn. We thought it was only fair to answer our own questions for ourselves. So in this episode, I speak to my co-host Dannie Lu. Dannie is a polymath, singer, songwriter, exec coach, inspire of women in both leadership and creativity.

And one of those people is me. Dannie has talked regularly about her own journey with social infertility and describes herself now as childless, not by choice and a part-time stepparent. We started this podcast because we were both looking for the many similarities in our experiences across the parenting divide, and we definitely found a few more in our conversation.

The empathy we can find through grief was new and interesting for me, and certainly helped me in my own journey with grief. This podcast deals with issues around coerced abortion and miscarriage, so please take care of yourself if those issues resonate with you, or you may decide to skip this one."

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The first of two episodes sharing our stories as hosts...

Dannie-Lu introduces Rebecca: 
"We thought it'd only fair that we put ourselves in the hotspot too, and answer the same questions we expect our guests to answer. So in this episode, I speak to my cohost, Rebecca. Social entrepreneur with a focus on community and comedian about her experience of parenthood as someone who thought she would probably not be a parent because of sexuality and circumstance, but has ended up on some levels, having what is deemed quite a conventional setup.

She talks honestly about the challenges and expectations of parenthood, as well as some of the unexpected small and joyous moments of it. We explore how societal assumptions about parenthood have evolved. Sometimes haven't and what it means to navigate these spaces while trained. We explore how societal assumptions about parenthood have evolved and sometimes haven't, and what it means to navigate these spaces while staying true to yourself." 

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 This episode we met Sam - her front page headline explaining how she'd quit work 'after another christmas picking up the slack' for parents was exactly that - a headline - and it was really fascinating to go behind that headline with Sam!

Her article, one of many things she's written, outlined the imbalance that exists in the workplace, favouring parents when it comes to benefits, flexibility and the informal annual leave hierarchy that can exist.

She is childless not by choice…but describes herself as having finally come to a place of acceptance of, and power over, the situation.

She has founded a non-mum network in a bid to build solidarity, and keep sharing and educating.

She's a self defined 'old school 90's raver' with a stint on Ibiza Uncovered under her belt, we had a great chat covering the unexpected community connections of both merch and dogs, how hard it is to name things and - another call for basic equality! When people wave their magic wand, it's amazing how often that comes up!

A warning that this episode covers detail of physical infertility, the experience of IVF and childess grief.

Links:

The Non Mum Network that Sam set up
https://thenonmumnetwork.co.uk/
Facebook group: The Non-Mum Network https://www.facebook.com/groups/752469014913024/?mibextid=uJjRxr Facebook page: The Non-Mum Network https://www.facebook.com/nonmumnetwork TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@thenonmumnetwork Instagram https://www.instagram.com/thenonmumnetwork/
Sam's Front Page and her take on it
https://www.instagram.com/p/C1kQ0ZdMAf2/

2022 statistical snapshot: 15% of women in the UK had not had a child before the age of 46 years.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/childbearingforwomenbornindifferentyearsenglandandwales/2021and2022

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In this episode we talked to Kathryn -  a social entrepreneur, with a passion for supporting mothers into flexible and rewarding careers.  She co-founded Digital Mums in 2013 and awards for her work towards labour market equality included Red Woman of the Year.

These achievements are particularly powerful because Kathryn, herself, is childfree by choice. Her reasons for getting involved with this podcast were as another challenge to the status quo that women will regret not having kids, and her noting that in her 30's it was men's 'mad rush' to have them that stopped her dating. 

We enjoyed hearing about people’s very public assumptions on her motherhood status as far up as the BBC! and basking in her unapologetic take on who she is. 

The conversation touched on how easy - or not - it may be to have a child.  We would like you to know that we are very aware that parenthood for some people is not possible.  There are some parts of this conversation that may not reflect that. 
This interview gave us lots to ponder upon.  We hope you feel the same.

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Esther is a communications director, former broadcast journalist and is passionate about creating successful teams.   She's a mother of four who had both her bio children between the ages of 40 and 42 and has two stepchildren.

She talks about the wonderful highs along with lows, and addresses how people's attitudes towards her biological children and stepchildren have sometimes been different and how she has worked to create the inclusive family they all want.

She talks about the importance of having a strong cabinet of friends and a good support network.

(She joined us from a tiny cupboard-like space in the foyer of a hotel, hope this explains some of the background noise!)

We also, in this podcast, as we are on episode three (!) share some of your great feedback about the podcast so far, our buzzy excitement about how things have been going, and a few requests from us.

You can find Esther here: she talks about a book that she's writing about step parenting that she's writing at the moment so watch this space!
https://www.linkedin.com/in/estherkuku/

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In this episode, we spoke to Rachel, who lives in Norfolk and runs a manufacturing business, as well as working in financial coaching. A busy person, Rachel's main goal in life is to find ways to chill out and enjoy herself more and work less!

We spoke to Rachel about being a mum to two rainbow babies who are now teenagers and an angel baby. And the complicatedness of that, along with all the love, grief, humor, and tears that goes with it.

We talked about the importance of laughter, of dark humor, communicating and honesty, and we laughed a lot.

This episode covers stillbirth, miscarriage, and grief extensively. So if that's not for you right now, please pass on this. Some of the links below may be useful.

The photo we talk about in the episode: Rachel's two daughters at Amy's grave
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13cVsw4e8bLRnaoLyQSKtIa0HRa7GVzzH/view?usp=sharing

Baby Loss Awareness Week
https://www.miscarriageassociation.org.uk/get-involved/raising-awareness/babyloss-awareness-week/

Baby Loss awareness
https://babyloss-awareness.org/

SANDS
https://www.sands.org.uk/blaw

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Berenice Howard Smith is an artist, self employed designer and creative. She's also co-founder of The Full Stop, an award-winning podcast and online community for people who are childless not by choice.  She's not a parent.

Berenice's Design Business Hello Lovely:
https://hellolovely.design/
The Full Stop: Podcast and COmmunity founded by THREE NAMES
https://www.thefullstoppod.com/

Further info and background to our conversation
Bourne Hall: IVF clinic in the UK founded in 1980
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourn_Hall_Clinic
Fertility Matters
https://fertilitymattersatwork.com/
Gateway Women
https://gateway-women.com/
World Childless Week
https://worldchildlessweek.net/
Bibi Lynch's talk at Fertility Fest about being tired
https://bibilynch.com/blog/fertility-fest/
Citizens - John Alexander
https://www.jonalexander.net/
JD Vance's comments about Childless Cat Ladies https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c147yn4xxx4o

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We're launching  on 27th November 2024!!! 

"So, do you have kids?"

Welcome to It's a Bit More Complicated Than That, where we are listening to all the fascinating, sad, joyful, messy answers that follow this question!

We're Dannie-Lu Carr and Rebecca Tully, a non-parent and parent respectively, but - 'it's a bit more complicated than that'. And that's the same for pretty much every one of our guests.

Every episode, we ask one guest whether they're a parent or not, whether it's a bit more complicated than that, and a few other questions about their journey.  And we see where it goes!

And to finish, we give them a magic wand and ask if there's anything they'd change about society if they could.

We're launching  on 27th November 2024!!! 
Please - listen to the trailer, share, follow, subscribe and ALL THE THINGS!

 - a podcast exploring the nuances of parenthood and non-parenthood in modern Britain.

Nearly 15 million Britons are navigating life without children—whether by choice, infertility, or circumstance. And within parents’ stories, so much is often unsaid - complexities of step-parenting, challenges and joys in families managing disability, and the many and varied experiences life has thrown.  Through candid conversations and authentic storytelling, we're creating a space where these often-unspoken truths  can be shared and understood.

Thank you for listening!

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