After just eight months in his role, Defence Secretary John Healey is dealing with one of the most challenging in-trays in the cabinet. 

He is meeting US counterpart Pete Hegseth in Washington on Thursday, as he works to bridge the gap on how to reach a Ukraine peace deal. 

On today’s podcast, Niall Paterson talks to ex-armed forces minister James Heappey who worked with Healey when he was in opposition, and to Malcolm Chalmers who focuses on UK defence and security at the think-tank RUSI about the challenges the defence secretary faces. 

Producer: Soila Apparicio 
Assistant producer: Millie Gibson 
Editor: Wendy Parker