It's Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee

Who is Julie?

Julie Guegan has spent the last two decades dedicated to understanding and promoting sophisticated collaboration. She has observed the challenges and complexities that arise when genuine collaboration is required, and has worked to navigate and overcome them. With a deep understanding of human nature and culture, Julie has led the way in finding solutions for effective collaboration, drawing on her own experiences in marriage as an example of the difficulties that can arise when multiple individuals come together. Her expertise and dedication have made her a leading figure in the field of collaboration.

Key Takeaways

00:00 20 years consulting led to founding Global Collaboration Institute.

04:33 Embrace diversity for collaborative and impactful solutions.

09:35 Revelation of nature's strength prompts relearning behavior.

11:59 Encourage collaboration, step out of comfort zone.

14:54 Avoid doubts, pioneer, and create global collaboration.

20:02 Anna awakened me to societal inferiority complex.

22:20 Julie, pursuit of dream through listening, innovation.

28:06 Julie promotes positive cultural change and collaboration.

29:48 Follow Julie, subscribe to the newsletter. Exciting guests.Valuable Free Resource or Action

Some free resources at https://tinyurl.com/3p8pnpnz

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

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Transcript

Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

global collaboration, books, citizen empowerment, participatory democracy, systems dynamic theory, Global Collaboration Institute, diverse perspectives, collaboration framework, innovation, diversity, storytelling techniques, well-being, empathy, change, nature, European dream, humility, curiosity, Alfred Adler, human behavior, inferiority complex, youth, COVID-19 pandemic, meta collaboration framework, social needs, humanistic values

SPEAKERS

Julie Geugan, Stuart Webb

Stuart Webb [00:00:19]:

Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science 5 questions over coffee. This is my coffee which I have in front of me. I know Julie has a drink with her as well, and I'd like to welcome Julie Gegan who is a fellow of the Royal Society of Arts and a recipient of 2 European Commission Awards and she's really passionate about citizen empowerment and participatory democracy and collaboration, and she's got work, which has been enriched by systems dynamic theory to do that. We're gonna have a really fascinating discussion about how she's doing this and things she's written about it. And, Julia, I'm really delighted to welcome to it's not rocket science, 5 questions over coffee. Thank you for making the time.

Julie Guegan [00:01:02]:

Thank you so much, Strat. And I will warn you that maybe my my dog will sparkle, with with Bobby during the conversation, but, you know, it's my dog. It's fine. And my cats my cat also may appear, so you know.

Stuart Webb [00:01:15]:

Okay. We we have had dogs. We have had cats. We have had many interruptions during these and they're always delightful. I'm always pleased to see them come in and say hello, so that's really wonderful. Judy, tell us a little bit more about, you know, the people you help in terms of the the collaborative processes and the and the the methodologies you use to to enable that.

Julie Guegan [00:01:35]:

Mhmm. Thank you so much. So over the past 20 years, I, I led the journey, to, understand the conditions for collaboration, but sophisticated collaboration. When faced with the need to collaborate, things get tricky. And we could see that over the past years when we face complex issues that require genuine collaboration. It's like we forget everything about human nature, culture, and how to navigate the complexity of collaboration. You know, just being married is difficult with 2 people. So imagine when you have more people around the table.

Julie Guegan [00:02:23]:

And so over the past 20 years, I had the great chance to contribute to the European project as a consultant and to identify, to learn from all my experience, the critical ingredients, what was needed to apply collaboration when collaboration is must needed. As an outcome of, of this, 20 years adventure, I created the Global Collaboration Institute a year ago. For this, I gathered experts from all over the globe in different disciplines, different areas, but also, ways of loving and thinking. So real diverse diversity in practice, people that don't necessarily think the same as me. And we started to, work on the basis of my findings and to elaborate a framework that can be applied in any system, any project to amplify its potential and to, make sure that the system in itself would, would be in calm, in well-being. And so having the condition to catalyze innovation. So that's the result of this work and that's the reason why I'm here today with you to explain you a little bit, what is this main outcome. It is in a book, in a vision, and I'm happy to to answer your questions, Charles, about

Stuart Webb [00:03:58]:

this. Julie, I think you said one thing there which is really critical, and that's something that I think a lot of the the people you work with have tried to do. They've tried to find ways to collaborate but as you said, sometimes you need to gather people around you who are different, who don't think the same as you and that's a critical and key aspect of of ensuring collaboration actually succeeds. What what what can you share us in terms of insights into into how that helps if people have tried collaborations or they've tried ways of sort of getting diversity, but they failed because they haven't recognized that as one of their key problems.

Julie Guegan [00:04:33]:

You you you have so many examples, you know, in our history where we embarked into main initiatives without taking the cultural diversity into account. Actually, in collaboration, diversity unites us. You don't do collaboration if you already have the answers to your question, if you already have the a position, if you prefer. So when you enter collaboration and when, in this case, we are talking about big dreams in a way. We are talking about solving the most impossible problems of our times because when collaboration is actually needed, it means that you cannot solve the problem yourself alone. So it means that the problem is too big for you. And so the dream is also too big. And that's why you have to take into account this diversity within the room because this diversity is the key to your solutions.

Julie Guegan [00:05:32]:

And what you need to, to do to embark people in this collaboration journey, taking account their different ways of thinking but also loving. Because the starting point is we all have a positive intention toward this world. We all have it. And following all my experience and my empirical research where I went as far as I could into the periphery, I started to listen attentively to our stakeholders. If we prefer if we are serious about achieving global collaboration that is empowering people all over the world to, to to to if you prefer to embrace the complex issues we face such as climate change or mobility, general, economy, any topic. You have to, equip them. You have to prepare them to the shock and the agony that diversity will represent.

Stuart Webb [00:06:38]:

I think that's a really interesting sec thing you said. It is a shock. It is not it is not easy. It's not comfortable.

Julie Guegan [00:06:47]:

It's absolutely not comfortable. But to solve our issues, I said it at the beginning, you need well-being. You need calm. Because to lead to harmony, people will need to feel calm. They will need to feel that they master. And this is why it's so important our role at the Global Collaboration Institute to equip people for sophisticated collaboration. So that in this collaboration, you won't burn out. You will feel well along the journey and you will master, and this is how you will make impossible possible.

Stuart Webb [00:07:27]:

Brilliant. Brilliant.

Julie Guegan [00:07:28]:

Because he will be like, oh, sorry. I could I told you I could talk during hours.

Stuart Webb [00:07:33]:

No. Please carry on. Please carry on.

Julie Guegan [00:07:37]:

It's just as part of my journey, I developed a number of tools and storytelling techniques and things like this, and it's very, easy for people to forget about, this diversity aspect and to get stuck when they are shocked, Right? When they are shocked by others' view on the world, and and they wait to love. It's it's it's the basis. You know? It's NLP. I I don't know if you know a little bit about NLP. Everyone is okay. That's how you start a collaboration journey. Everyone. What you need to understand is in I mean, when you need to develop is empathy.

Julie Guegan [00:08:22]:

Your ability to listen to what feels wrong. Yeah. And well, it's it's just that as part of the the storytelling techniques, I, I I I, for instance, feed people with narratives, like the narrative of the eagle. You know? The eagle that takes distance on the dream, that takes distance on the project. Because if you put too much pressure on yourself, you increase the risk of being shocked. Because the more you want a project to succeed, the more you want something impossible to become possible, the more you increase the pressure on the show on your shoulder and the less competent you will be to address it. So it's very important that people, you know, visualize themselves as animal, and I use the laws of nature because we need to complete to contemplate nature when nature shows us that it's far more complex than we thought it was because, you know, women beings, we have this inferiority complex toward nature. We always need to find the ways to control it.

Julie Guegan [00:09:35]:

And now that we are faced with this, terrible, you know, revelation that nature is stronger than us, we seem even more lost and and and it's like people lose their everything they learned. You know? They panic and, it's like we have to to relearn everything, you know, about what is a good behavior, what is wrong about our beliefs. We we are like turtles. You know, I mentioned the eagle that needs to take distance and has strategies to make sure the dream at the end of the day will work because there's no other choice. Not the change is happening. Anyway, the question is, do we want this change to be like the way we want it? Do we let this change, you know, happen without us? And I think we all have in our world the tools, the competencies, you know, everything we need to, to make the right, benevolent change happen for this world. So let's do it. You know? And that's why also when I started with my new European dream for a caring culture and innovation and and hope and faith because we've never needed more hope than today.

Julie Guegan [00:11:07]:

And this, you know, knowing that, yes, we can. Of course, we can. You know? We have everything. And and and when I started, you know, the only reason I could wake up every day with this huge dream of on my shoulder, you know, the turtle with this huge burden of this huge dream that, yes, we can do it. The only reason why I could keep going is because I knew there were people in this world like you. People in this world that have fantastic expertise, they can bring to the table so that we make happen what we thought was impossible. And so I'm I'm naming this force, if you prefer, the force for good.

Stuart Webb [00:11:59]:

Yes. Yes. Is there a is there a particular thing that you would like people to is there, you know, one piece of advice that you could leave? And I I'm gonna put up at this stage, your LinkedIn profile, which I will I will include in the in the show notes for the episode because I think it's important that people can follow what you're doing with with with your collaboration institute. But but is there one piece of advice? You talked a little bit about sort of storytelling techniques. You've talked about some of the techniques you've used to help people sort of understand how collaboration can help them move their business, their personal life forward. Is there one piece of advice that you would leave them with to enable them to sort of, today, start taking that approach, move their collaboration forward in a way which, yes, will make them uncomfortable, will help them, to to move out of their comfort zone, but will enable them to sort of move forward, that they don't need a lot of time to learn?

Julie Guegan [00:12:57]:

Mhmm. There are you have to know, I wrote, probably one article per day in, 3 years on my blog, which is now closed because it was mainly for my experience, the empirical research, to understand, as I said, the conditions for global collaboration. From there, we have this framework, structural and behavioral framework. The pillars, if you prefer, of collaboration contain 11 ingredients, and there is this behavioral framework that is the process, to move from impossible to mission possible. As part of all these these resources that that we created, I'm thinking about one very simple thing that people can do when they have so many years. So I'm thinking about 1 in particular, but There are 3 mistakes that people do when they have a big dream. The first one is, lack of humility. No.

Julie Guegan [00:14:10]:

Yep. It's, the second one is, lack of curiosity. So you say, you know, the being ignorant. You have to be like an unborn. You, when you enter collaboration, you have to forget everything you know, basically. Because if you really want to have the power of collaboration on the table, you have to forget where you come from or your beliefs or your bias or your assumptions because you need to be at the disposal of the crowd because collaboration is 1 plus 1 equals an infinite number of possibilities. But for this, you need to forget all about yourself. You need to be unborn.

Julie Guegan [00:14:54]:

The third mistake is to be overwhelmed by doubts Because along the journey, you will be like a scoot. It's a friend, Stefan Baigi, who taught me about this, that when you are pioneer and, of course, Global Collaboration Institute is pioneering a new well, it's like we open the door to next generation because we saw that the system was becoming absurd and change needed to happen whether we want it or not. And so we opened the door to make it familiar for all generations that there is a possibility that one day global collaboration will happen with a maximum of people around the globe ready, equipped to solve all the complex issues we face in all the areas because we see there is crisis after crisis The or in all the domain, in all the areas, we need to change the rules of the game. So we opened this door and we invented these frameworks. So, really, one resource I would say is to face these 3 mistakes. So lack of curiosity, lack of humility, and the the the feeling of, you know, of being overwhelmed by doubts. Contemplation contemplation, looking for the signs that you are doing the right things, Being as much as you can unborn unborn, it's it's really like the second life. You know? You when you prepared your first life, and you spend your first life preparing the second life.

Julie Guegan [00:16:45]:

So it's we need this civilization to prepare its second life. So we need to look at it like this. So far we have been quite individualistic. We have been quite self centered. You say comfort, over our comfort. We need to accept the stretching. We need to accept that we need to unlearn everything we learned because now we have a mission all together and it is to prepare a better world for the next generation.

Stuart Webb [00:17:23]:

Yes. Yes.

Julie Guegan [00:17:25]:

Does it make sense to you?

Stuart Webb [00:17:27]:

It does. It does. And and you're right that that that that often these these big initiatives don't yield results for many years, but that shouldn't put us off from actually looking for how to make that I mean, we talk about the sustainability that the world needs to adopt at the moment and there's no point in pertaining that sustainability is to benefit the people who implement the change now. It's to it's to benefit generations to come, and we need to have that ability to look long term instead of in quarters years to look in terms of decades so that people can see the approach beginning to take through in 5, 10, 15 years from now. Is there is there one, it was there one type one thing or a a series of things which brought you a a course book or experience that brought you to your understanding that these things need to be addressed and started your your thinking about this, this this this big vision about collaboration?

Julie Guegan [00:18:35]:

Yeah. Thank you for for asking this question because I I did an academic research, followed by empirical research. I mean, everything in the same time, actually. I read tons of books, because it's it's a very serious journey. You know? You don't come unequipped to a dream like this. Right? The the the key to me to the main door has been Alfred Adler. Alfred Adler was an Austrian philosopher who lived at the same time, as But, he was far less notorious. Adler.

Julie Guegan [00:19:19]:

Do you know Adler, Stuart? No. Well, you see, it's not very notorious. But when I read it and I read all his books, I got this shock because you know what he says basically, but it's awful to summarize the thoughts of someone like him. What he says is that human beings have a very deep inferiority complex toward nature. Mhmm. And this is translated by behaviors of superiority complex. We need to control nature. We don't like the unpredictability of nature, the uncertainty.

Julie Guegan [00:20:02]:

Right? And so Anna actually wake woke me up to a reality which I knew already that we had a problem with our inferiority complex that were initiated in number of behaviors inside our society. But he equips me on how to solve that main huge hurdle. It's a bit like I mean, I will I will make a parallel resume. You know, it's also when you when he tells you that the first thing you need to master is your dark side, it means you human beings, you are a bunch of monsters. So when you wake up in the morning instead of thinking that you are god, do your best to calm down the monster within you because when times become complicated, it should be your first task right in the morning. Master the devil within you because it's big and it's gonna be very big as times will gonna be tougher and tougher in particular for the western world because I think and that that's it's part of all the things I learned because because as you mentioned when you started journey with a dream like this, like Global Collaborations 3 years ago, I could not expect learning so much. Can you imagine the number of people I met from my little office at home? The conversation I had with people from all over the globe, living very different lives as me, having different dreams, etcetera, it's incredible. When when I just want everybody to join this journey now.

Stuart Webb [00:21:56]:

Yes. Yes. The passion is important. And and that leads me to my final question for you, Julie, and that is there must be one question that you think I haven't yet asked and that I should ask in order to better understand how collaboration is gonna help us all move forward. So what's the question I should have asked? And, obviously, once you've asked that question, you're the best person to answer it. So what is that question?

Julie Guegan [00:22:20]:

It's your dream, Julie. How is your dream going? You know? I shared a dream 3 years ago for it was a script I wrote for the European Commission. It was full of wisdom from coming from all my, conversation I had with people from all over the globe during 2 years, during the COVID. And, and, basically, I had to pursue the script on my own. And this is how I understood that we cannot change we cannot make the right change if we don't listen to the peripheries because it's at the center, that we find the comfort in our current system, in the status quo. So I had to go, as I say, far as far as I could in the peripheries to listen to people, to, because it is them who have the solutions to the problems that they face. You know, it it's a bit like the water crisis. You solve it with people that suffer from the water crisis and have to be innovative to find solutions, you know, to find water every day.

Stuart Webb [00:23:32]:

Yes.

Julie Guegan [00:23:34]:

And we don't do that. We don't really have this culture of going it's our end. We were saying that the solution, they lie in the periphery. We don't have this culture. So I had to do it myself. I I had to take all the risks if you prefer alone. But so how is my dream after 3 years? It's very promising. Now we are asked from leaders, worldwide leaders, to make presentation about the meta collaboration behavior and structural framework.

Julie Guegan [00:24:04]:

It's unbelievable that experts from around the globe seem to validate the framework. I mean, we spent a year focusing on, making labs, making experiments, showing the benefits of our framework in domains like education, health, activism, economy, etcetera. The the the outcomes we get surpass really surpass our expectations. Because as I said, at first, we thought we will ensure the well-being of each amplified by the collective. So we will invest in your potential to art with the meta collaboration framework, we'll add it to you and instead of having a cap on your head that makes it impossible for you to achieve a new dream, we we instead of the cap, we give you, you know, all the things you needed. The we we fill it, you know, with all the ingredients that you need to fill well, find harmony, and at the end of the day, co create. Got it. And so from there, we understood that actually that one of the benefit is to catalyze any innovation when you make a tea bag.

Julie Guegan [00:25:25]:

But you you tell me when I have to stop. But meta collaboration is basically a tea bag, and you respect the ceremony of the tea because it's very important. But you you put a tea bag in a in a in a cup of water and you see what it will happen what what will happen. You just follow. You observe. You are a researcher. You observe. And and we saw how bubbling people become.

Julie Guegan [00:25:50]:

They're they have a wall in front of them. It's impossible. We'll never get there. You put the key bag and it becomes like, how we could do that? And, yes, we were not doing that, and and it's, like, incredible. It's incredible to see. It's it's magic. Because nowadays, I think people are overwhelmed with negativity. They don't they don't have hope.

Julie Guegan [00:26:17]:

I mean and and why did I start also? Because I realized during the COVID times that the first victims to a global pandemic was our youth because we forgot, completely forgot about the social needs of our youth during this COVID time. You know? Because they don't vote. Yes. Yes. They don't vote. They they don't have a voice. And so we we we set up I mean, it's it's not as as clear as that, but I think those would what have privilege. And, this was very clear for me, during these COVID times.

Julie Guegan [00:26:55]:

And so, yes, the reason why I just couldn't hold myself, you know, and I had to open the door to my sons because we have the promise of a world that is worse. I can't accept this even one second. When I when I meet people in, my conversation in Iran, etcetera, when they tell me Europe is dead, I wanna tell them it's the opposite because it's our humanistic values. It's our humanistic values and it's, I I remember it's Emmanuel Dweiss. In one of my conversations in together, Hansan, during the COVID tag, she reminded me of this humanistic values of Europe. And and and never forget the the common values we have in Europe and and and why I think the the the promising future will come from Europe.

Stuart Webb [00:28:06]:

Julie, I think disturbing culture. Julie, we've gotta draw it on that because that I think it's a brilliant way to end this on a note which is positive, remembering that as humans, we can address these issues if we want to. So often we don't want to, so we need to we need to find ways of working with each other, supporting each other, and thinking for the future, not just for today, rather than thinking just about what we get from getting out of and we have difficulties we need to get through today, but we definitely need to get through to the future. We definitely need to collaborate in order to bring that bright future. Julie, thank you for spending a few minutes with us talking about this. It's it's a fascinating subject. I I I'm gonna I'm gonna draw it and and really encourage people, please go follow Julie at linkedin, dot com. She's Julie Guegan at 189-5a21.

Stuart Webb [00:29:03]:

You'll find her if you look for her. There's not many people out there with quite such a profile as Julie. Please follow her. Please look at some of the stuff that she's doing. She's doing some really interesting things. She has she has that blog that she's talked about. She has written a book, which

Julie Guegan [00:29:19]:

is Yeah. The blog is closed, but yeah. Sorry, Scott. I can, I can invite people to to read my book, the following one, which is the vision? It's called Europe, the Next Chapter, a story of collective innovation, and the second book is about, to get released. It's it's about all the experience we led, all over the globe with the meta collaboration framework, during the past year and what we learned about the framework.

Stuart Webb [00:29:48]:

Julie has some brilliant thoughts. Please follow her and and and look out for those books. And and and, you know, also following her, please subscribe to the newsletter so that you can get notification of when we have such fantastic hosts coming up on the podcast. If you go to, link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter, that's a link Dot the complete approach dotco.ukforward/newsletter. That will take you to a form you fill in, and you will get notified every couple of weeks with who's coming up on the podcast so that you can join in and ask questions and listen to some of the wisdom that you get from such a really interesting guest like Julie. Julie, thank you so much, for spending just a few minutes with us, and I really appreciate you giving us such such wisdom, so much, so much to pack in and I I really look forward to, catching up when that second book is out, and we'll talk more about what that book is telling us about global collaboration.

Julie Guegan [00:30:49]:

Thank you so much, Strat.

Who is Darren?

Darren Saul is a seasoned podcaster who has found his passion in the world of podcasting. With multiple successful podcasts under his belt, Darren has established himself as a prominent figure in the industry. His belief in the power of podcasting as a marketing tool has led him to create valuable content that not only builds brand awareness but also serves as a passive means of sharing his expertise with the world. Darren's dedication to podcasting has allowed him to create a platform for himself and his work, connecting with audiences in a unique and engaging way.

Key Takeaways

00:00 Maximizing podcast content for effective marketing.

07:00 Podcast resources, courses, and free webinar available.

09:04 Traditional advertising no longer effective, turned to podcasts.

12:03 Podcasting creates diverse, reusable marketing content opportunities.

17:03 Start a podcast with a video call.

18:11 Leverage other podcasts for marketing content.

Valuable Free Resource or Action

Some free resources at https://tinyurl.com/3p8pnpnz

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Subscribe to our newsletter and get details of when we are doing these interviews live at https://TCA.fyi/newsletter

Find out more about being a guest at : link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/beaguest

Subscribe to the podcast at https://link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/podcast

Help us get this podcast in front of as many people as possible. Leave a nice five-star review at apple podcasts : https://link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/apple-podcasts and on YouTube : https://link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/Itsnotrocketscienceatyt!

Here's how you can bring your business to THE next level:

If you are a business owner currently turning over £/$10K - £/$50K per month and want to grow to £/$100K - £/$500k per month download my free resource on everything you need to grow your business on a single page :

It's a detailed breakdown of how you can grow your business to 7-figures in a smart and sustainable way

————————————————————————————————————————————-

Transcript

Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

podcasting, podcasters, podcasting strategy, brand awareness, marketing content, podcast monetization, podcast guests, podcast preparation, podcast marketing, podcast production, podcast promotion, podcast value, podcasting courses, podcasting resources, podcasting webinar, podcasting content, podcasting journey, podcasting advice, podcasting strategy, podcasting coach, podcasting industry, podcasting impact, podcasting audience, podcasting success, podcasting commitment, podcasting imposter syndrome, podcasting start, podcasting consistency, podcasting confidence, podcasting opportunities

SPEAKERS

Darren Saul, Stuart Webb

Stuart Webb [00:00:24]:

Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science 5 Questions Over Coffee. My name is Stuart Webb. I'm here with Darren Saul, who is, a podcaster, pretty pretty experienced at this podcast stuff. I'm fairly sure that he doesn't need any introduction from me on what we're doing. So, Darren, you're a you're a podcaster. You're a you're a strategist, trainer, coach, student of human, attention, you say. And you've started heavily utilizing the power of podcasting. So I'm really interested to hear how you're helping your clients to use podcasting and how it's making a difference in in their their business.

Stuart Webb [00:01:06]:

So welcome to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 questions and go for coffee. I hope you've got your coffee there in front of you. My coffee.

Darren Saul [00:01:13]:

I have to stay on brand with the show.

Stuart Webb [00:01:16]:

Good man. Good man. So, Darren, tell us, how is it that you help people, in their podcasting?

Darren Saul [00:01:23]:

You bet. So podcasting is something that's growing from strength to strength as we all know. I heard some ridiculous statistic the other day. I don't know if it's true or not. That there's more podcast than there are listeners. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's crazy. But it just goes to show you how many people are podcasting at the moment. But that's not to say that every podcast that people set up goes past episode 10.

Darren Saul [00:01:49]:

There's a lot of podcasters, but not many of them get past episode 20 or certainly not to 50 or a 100. So basically, I love podcasting, and I've just fallen in love with podcasting over the years. And so I podcast more and more. I've got 2 podcasts, but I think they're an incredible way to build brand awareness, to build, marketing material, to build content in all those different forms and to be a very indirect passive way to tell people what you do and where you work rather than a very aggressive push sales process, which is something that we all do more and more these days.

Stuart Webb [00:02:34]:

So so what is it that you see that people are doing wrong? And and and what is it that you think people are you're trying to help them to do with with the work you do, Darren?

Darren Saul [00:02:45]:

Yeah. Great. So really two things. I I tackle podcasting from both sides. So I work with podcasters to create a better podcast, deliver a better podcast, monetize their podcast, possibly if they're looking to do that, and just continue to get value and extract marketing content as well as brand awareness and business results from their podcast. But then I also work with guests to help them get podcast ready. Cause a lot of guests jump on a podcast. They're not prepared.

Darren Saul [00:03:20]:

They don't know what they're gonna be talking about. They haven't articulated their little 30 or 1 minute commercial. And then when they've done a podcast like this, they say, great, had a great show and they never do anything else. So for me, that's madness. If you do a show like this, you ask for the raw footage and then you actually start using that raw footage in your marketing material. So I'm really trying to work both sides of the podcasting equation so people can really start using podcasting as a medium, or I keep coming back to the same two things, brand awareness and marketing content. That is the power of podcasting. And then of course, all those things can continue from there.

Darren Saul [00:04:05]:

You can turn you can monetize them in so many different ways. You can, have fun. You can create new podcasts. You can get on other people's shows. You can build yourself up as a thought leader in your industry. You can get keynote speaking opportunities. I mean, you can get workshop opportunities, coaching opportunities. It goes on and on and on.

Darren Saul [00:04:26]:

But it's really those 2

Stuart Webb [00:04:28]:

things I love. And and I think it's I think you're absolutely right. Too many people do anything like this where they don't think about what their message is and and make it clear, and then they fail to I mean, most people know that you've got to repeat your message many times for people to hear it. I always worry about people who sort of sit back and wait for the results to sort of flow in rather than having a plan and following it through and actually you know, it's a it's a bit like any activity, isn't it? You've gotta know what your objective is and follow that plan rather than just sort of sitting back and going, well, why hasn't the world turned and faced towards me and sort of run at me?

Darren Saul [00:05:05]:

100%. 100%. And you brought a really good point. It's there's a lot of patience and consistency needed. If you really wanna run a good podcast, you have to just keep on pounding away with the episodes, marketing them well, and fill giving time for the audience to find you and building your your brand. You know? And people start to get used to you dropping an episode every Monday or every Tuesday or once a fortnight or once a month or whatever it is, and they'll start talking about your podcast, telling other people about it. All that stuff takes time. You can't expect to have podcast results in 2 months, and that's why a lot of people start and finish really quickly.

Stuart Webb [00:05:45]:

Brilliant. So, I'm now hopefully gonna ask you for the dead simple one, which is you must have a bunch of advice that you can give us and and and valuable, advice as well that you might wanna sort of pass on. And I know you've got a link on your website, which I'm gonna pull up here. It's it's at tinyurl.com3p8 pnpnzed, or for those of us in the US, that would be z. 3p8 p n p n zed. So, Darren, tell tell us some of the stuff that's at that link. What is it that you're trying to help people to do with that, man? Yeah.

Darren Saul [00:06:22]:

Sure. So there's a a great link there. There's lots of free resources on that link. So, for example, there's a great, PDF that you can download to help you build a podcast from a to zed. It's like my a to zed formula of podcasting. So if you're thinking about dipping your toe in the water, you're not quite sure, there's lots of information in there about the tech needed, the strategy, the little bit about the the preparation sorry, the, processing and the producing, because that's a little bit of a fine art in itself. Exactly. And then there's a lot of production and promotion, working there as well.

Darren Saul [00:07:00]:

I've got stuff for guests as well. If you a little PDF on how to be podcast ready, covering all sorts of different topics from your 32nd commercial or your your story to how to leverage your content, how to choose the right host, how to choose the right podcast, how to choose your target audience, how to choose your niche, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And I've got a few other paid resources. If anybody is interested in jumping on and learning, there's a a recorded course and a few other opportunities. There's also another webinar, a free webinar that I'm doing next week on how to monetize your podcast. So there's a 1 hour free webinar you can jump on, and we're gonna talk about 15 different strategies to how you can start thinking about monetizing your podcast. And you don't have to have a lot of podcast episodes to monetize. You just have to think in a little bit of a creative way, and there's all sorts of stuff you could do, and you can have a lot of fun as well.

Darren Saul [00:07:56]:

So lots of great resources if anybody wants to dive into the podcasting world.

Stuart Webb [00:08:00]:

That's great stuff, Darren. Thank you very much. So I've I've got a I've got a a little link going up at the moment. If anybody has any questions, put them into the chat. But but, Darren, how did you get into Pasciani? What was it? What was there a book, a course, a program? What is it that sort of made you a podcast strategist? And and and if you don't mind me describing you, I think in the very best possible way, a podcast nerd, I actually think that's the highest compliment I can pay somebody, but all those disagree with me.

Darren Saul [00:08:28]:

I love it. I'll take it. I'll take it. I love being called a podcast nerd. I love to nerd out on podcasting stuff.

Stuart Webb [00:08:34]:

Yeah. Good for you.

Darren Saul [00:08:35]:

Love it. So, yeah, good story. So I do a number of different things. I've been working as a a corporate IT recruiter, for 25 years, nearly 25 years. I've been working as a photographer for about 10 years. And about 6 years ago, I realized that the tide had changed in terms of marketing and business development. The yellow pages or we have we have the yellow pages here. I don't know what you guys have

Stuart Webb [00:09:03]:

over here. Yeah. Yeah.

Darren Saul [00:09:04]:

Yellow pages where you can advertise locally and people can find you and all that stuff. That wasn't being looked at anymore. Letter drops were being thrown in the bin. Cold calling was getting harder and harder to get in past the gatekeepers. So I started thinking about there's gotta be a better way to start marketing my business. And I stumbled onto social media, digital media, podcasting, and I thought, wow, this is amazing. So I thought, you know what? What the hell? So I started 2 podcasts right off the bat, one for my recruitment business and one for my photography business. And the recruitment business is a little bit more esoteric where I interview people about job seeking and career development and building company culture and hiring and firing and all that kind of stuff.

Darren Saul [00:09:55]:

And then I have my other one, which is what I call my variety show. I've got about over 220 something episodes where I talk about all sorts of different things from real estate to health sciences to book launches to music to mindset, entrepreneurship, business, whatever. And that's my my passion project. And since that, the birth of that and the journey, I've started wanting to really just give as much information and coach and teach other people to get the same results out of podcasting because I think it's such a great tool. And there's a little bit of a backstory, but it's been a lot of fun, and I just who knows where it's gonna lead?

Stuart Webb [00:10:36]:

That's brilliant. I think it's absolutely fantastic. So so what is it about, about podcasting therefore then that you see as being the way of sort of driving that marketing? Because, you know, it's it is once again, it's one of those things where it is it is a bit passive. So so how do you how do you what what can you do to sort of make your podcast as successful as you can?

Darren Saul [00:10:56]:

Yeah. Good. Great question. Well, I mean, that's the beauty of it in itself because it's passive. Like, I always use this analogy. If you were to look through your social media, LinkedIn and Facebook in particular, turn off the sound, just scroll down the feed. All you see are people like, like this little if you imagine my little box is one little screen, all you see is people talking to the camera with this all this animation and energy trying to sell you something. Right? So it gets a little bit much after a while.

Darren Saul [00:11:30]:

And I love podcasting because it's the exact opposite. It's me, particularly when it's with a guest. So we've got 2 of us here. We're talking to each other. It really takes the pressure off. You know? We're not we're not trying to sell you anything. We're just we're more almost inviting you in for a conversation, you know, with our coffee, rather than pushing our agenda down your throat. So it's a very indirect, curious way of attracting people rather than really aggressively promoting whatever it is that we wanna promote.

Darren Saul [00:12:03]:

So that's really number 1. But the other thing that podcasting does, and people are really starting to realize this more and more these days, it is an incredible way to create content. So if you run a podcast system and you record in video and audio form, long form, you have so much video, audio, written, graphic content that you can utilize now for your marketing on social media, on your website, in your email newsletters, in your email signature. Maybe if you wanna do letter drops, whatever the hell do you wanna do, there is that many things you can do with that content. You'll never run out of it. And it's fresh and varied because you've got a different guest every week or every 2 weeks or whatever. Then you can start bringing mash up the greatest hits within a month or, I mean, send out newsletters with your, playlist of different topics. I mean, it goes on and on and on, But it's all about getting the content in the 1st place, and a podcast system just gives you that opportunity.

Stuart Webb [00:13:14]:

That's brilliant. Darren, you know, there must be one question you're currently thinking. He hasn't asked the critical question here, and he's he's he's missed the point of this stuff. So what's the critical question I should have asked you? What is it that you are burning to sort of tell me about something? And, you know, now I've given you the opportunity to ask that question. You'll obviously have to answer it because you're the only one that actually knows the answer.

Darren Saul [00:13:37]:

Yeah. That's a really good one. And the real the question would be, if I had to ask people, why are you not starting your podcast? Everybody always is fascinated by podcast. They do podcast courses. They come to podcast workshops. And then 6 months later have you started your podcast? Oh, we're about to start. We're just talking about this. We're just talking about that.

Darren Saul [00:14:00]:

We're just finalizing this. We're finalizing that a year later. They still haven't started their podcast or they've started and done 2 episodes. I'm like, what? What's going on? Why haven't you either started or continued? And the reason is it takes work. Yeah. It takes strategy.

Stuart Webb [00:14:18]:

Yeah.

Darren Saul [00:14:19]:

And it takes commitment. But if you do it and you do it well, it is in one of the best marketing tools available. And the other reason that people stop or they don't start is, you know, I hate that term imposter syndrome, but everybody's using it. So I'll just use it because everybody knows what it is. But a lot of people think, oh, I'm not worthy of sharing my voice with the world. I'm not worthy of sharing my message. What do I who am I to start a podcast? But you look around there every Tom, Dick, and Harry has started their own show. They're talking about what they love.

Darren Saul [00:14:55]:

They're talking about what they know about, and it's now the era of giving getting away with worrying about the gatekeepers. We don't have anybody to tell us what we can and can't do. We can all have our own show. We can all have our own production, and it's all about free to air. We wanna listen to what we wanna listen to. So why the hell not? You know, if you've got something that you're burning to share with the world, and even if you're not perfect from episode 1, you're gonna get better. When I go back to my episode 1 and rewatch my first show, it's terrible. Episode 10 is terrible.

Darren Saul [00:15:34]:

But as I've been doing more and more podcasts, I get more and more confident. And you just you start to enjoy it and you learn from other people, and it's we're all learning from each other. So all I can say is if you're on the fence about podcasting, jump in, have some fun, at least try it for a couple of episodes before you worry about not doing it. And if I can leave with one great title of a book that really sums this up beautifully, there's a book, I'm trying to think of the name of the the author, but it's called Ready, Fire, Aim.

Stuart Webb [00:16:09]:

Aim. Yeah.

Darren Saul [00:16:10]:

Is it Michael Masterson? I think it's Yeah.

Stuart Webb [00:16:12]:

I think it is. It is. Yeah.

Darren Saul [00:16:13]:

Instead of ready aim fire, and that sums this concept up beautifully. Start the journey, get some feedback from the audience, get some feedback from whoever it is your your viewers and, and, listeners are and tweak as you go. You don't have to have it all sorted out before you begin. It never is that way. Just not and tweak and change and have fun along the way. It's a journey.

Stuart Webb [00:16:38]:

Yeah. Brilliant. Do you know I I just wanna I just wanna add one thing to what you said, Dan, because because I think it is important. I've spoken to a number of people and invited. I hope I hope you've had a good time, which just as you said, it's been 2 2 professionals just just talking. There's, you know, it's nothing more complicated. It's nothing more serious. Well, it is serious, but it's nothing more intimidating than that.

Stuart Webb [00:17:03]:

And the number of people I've spoken to and said, why don't you just go and be a guest on a podcast? And they'll say, I couldn't do that. And you go, well, you can appear on a video call. We all do them nowadays since 2020. We've spent 8 we spent we've re reinvented ourselves as people are able to do a video call. Why don't you just do a video call with somebody and record it? And that is the beginning of your podcast. And I mean Yep. It's nothing more than a video call. And people will turn around and say, well, yeah, I do a lot of those and I record them and I go, okay.

Stuart Webb [00:17:35]:

Terrific. So so that's your podcast. And their immediate response is, yeah, that wouldn't be very good. And I well, what? Who defines if it's good?

Darren Saul [00:17:44]:

That's

Stuart Webb [00:17:44]:

right. It's it's not a it's it's not about good, it's about doing, and it's not only about doing as you said and starting, but it's also about thinking to yourself there may be somebody out there, even one other person that this could help. Great. Help that one other person. Stop worrying about the the 99.999 percent of people that that don't want that. They don't want it, they'll turn away. But there might be 0.0001% of people that go, that was useful for me.

Darren Saul [00:18:11]:

Yeah. If you could have one person if I could have one person with this, I'm very happy. If I've got one person to start podcasting and you made a really, really good point. And this is something that I usually say, if you're not ready to jump in and set up your own podcast, get on other people's shows, at least do that. Get on other people's shows, ask for the content, pop it up, use it in your marketing. You're often away. You don't even have to have your own show if you don't wanna do the extra work and, you know, the extra cost and the resources and whatever else. Just book yourself into lots of different shows and you're up and running.

Darren Saul [00:18:45]:

And then maybe one day you might start your own.

Stuart Webb [00:18:49]:

Darren, I don't know if you've helped anybody else. I hope you have. You've helped me a lot, and I'm really enthusiastic about sort of doing more now. So thank you so much for coming on and spending a few minutes with us. I'm just gonna ask you all, if you could go to, this link, which is link dot the complete approach dotco.ukforward/newsletter. That gets you on to our newsletter website, mailing list, then you get to hear about when we're publishing really interesting articles from the sort of people that we're talking to like Darren. So that's link dot the complete approach dotco.ukforward/newsletter. Please subscribe to that.

Stuart Webb [00:19:27]:

Darren, if you've done nothing else, you've helped me today. Thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us.

Darren Saul [00:19:32]:

My pleasure.

Stuart Webb [00:19:33]:

Looking forward to sharing the content with you because that's what this is all about. I'm quite happy to do that, and I think it's a really good point you've made. People should ask for that footage, that that content, and use it as much as they can. So, Darren, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. Looking forward to seeing what you do with this stuff.

Darren Saul [00:19:51]:

You bet. Thank you, Stuart, for having me, and thank you audience for listening and watching.

Stuart Webb [00:19:57]:

Bye bye.

Who is Daniel?

Daniel Gbujie is a passionate advocate for sustainability and global cooperation. His experiences have inspired him to work towards creating a more sustainable and inclusive world. Through his work, he hopes to inspire young people to follow in the footsteps of those who have come before and make a positive impact.

Key Takeaways

00:00 Born in West Africa, evolved, overcame challenges.

05:18 Young Africans advocate for sustainable development globally.

06:51 Highlighting sustainability, leadership, and forward-thinking mindset.

11:52 Forming team Hakuna Matata to drive change.

16:36 Biosphere's balance, sustainability, and diversity importance.

18:07 Sustainability principles for inclusive and lasting systems.

21:39 Networking, expertise, and sustainability showcased through app.

26:37 Promoting sustainability through app and solar box.

29:29 Development requires inspiration, willpower and community.

32:26 Sustainability and resilience are crucial for culture.

36:13 Commitment to sustainability; grateful for support. Future involvement.

Valuable Free Resource or Action

Follow Daniel on https://www.linkedin.com/in/chidubem-gbujie-961aa6130/

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Transcript

Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

ESG consulting, social impact, brand value, customer relationships, workforce, global standards, social responsibility, social risks, reputational damage, legal issues, financial losses, stakeholders, business objectives, sustainability, UN courses, environment, governance, materiality assessments, data analytics, internal biases, graduate advice, GRI standards, labor practices, human rights, diversity and inclusion, community engagement, customer privacy, GDPR, pandemic, employee engagement, resistant to change, effective communication, social responsibility efforts, ESG consultants, social risk management, stakeholder engagement, data collection, analysis tools.

SPEAKERS

Daniel Gbujie, Stuart Webb

Stuart Webb [00:00:18]:

Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 questions over coffee. I'm Stuart the Webb, the host of this thing, and I'm joined today by, a guest I'm truly honored to be, to be on the podcast with me. This is doctor Daniel Bougie. Doctor Daniel Bougie is a, is is a public health, expert, but has recently taken part in the 200 the Webb Sustainability World Cup. And I'm proud to be able to say, as a judge of that particular competition, he was voted and his team won, but he was voted the most impressive and valuable team leader of that competition. So, doctor Buge, thank you so much for spending a few minutes here with us today. I'm really honored that you've taken some time out of what I know is a very busy day for you to come and spend a few minutes with us. But please, just spend a few minutes.

Stuart Webb [00:01:22]:

Please introduce what it is you do because you have got a really very impressive CV.

Daniel Gbujie [00:01:30]:

Yes. Thank you very much, sir. And first of all, since after the completion, I've not had time to thank you. On behalf of the team, I wanna thank you for, you know, your imputes and your ability to crystallize why we should be sustainable on a global level, on a local level, on a subnational level. The game indeed has inspired us, and the game has been able to identify the uniqueness in all the regions as you know. And of of course, the game has also been able to inspire us young people knowing that the ones that have gone before us are really smart people. Yeah. So I am Daniel Buje Chidoben.

Daniel Gbujie [00:02:13]:

I was born in, in West Africa, Nigeria to be precise, in the southern part of of the country. And I am, a human being that has evolved over time. I say that with all honesty because if you don't evolve in light of the realities of the changing time, you will just become extinct just like the dinosaurs who felt who felt that they were the tallest, the most massive, amount of, species in the world, when others were running for for shelter and hiding on caves and evolving in the kinds of meals they can do and inventing, they felt they could muscle weight. And then where are they now? They are fossils. So the lesson is, I'm a child or an African child who has seen it all in the continent, who understand what it means to be poor, who understand what it feels like to see people being poor, who also knows that there's a better world for everyone if people tap into the better versions of themselves. I do have a health background, and that also helped me be able to articulate, you know, what I really want in life and how I could move forward. But, things got better for me when I got the opportunity to come to the United States on scholarship. I actually did come with the climate change background, the fellowship in climate change, and that really helped me.

Daniel Gbujie [00:03:50]:

The former vice president, his excellency, Al Gore, runs an environmental based program. Al Gore was once the vice president here in the United States. He he runs, an environmental based stuff. He was looking to expand, you know, and then he brought a lot of Africans, Asians to come to the US, you know, to come and learn more about the changing times. That also influenced me because at that time also, I was with the World Medical Association as a resident doctor then. There's a there's a junior doctor network within the World Medical Association, and they were looking into the environmental impact of health, you know, and I felt, wow, that will be nice. So about that same time, I got the opportunity to come to Colorado for some training, and boy was I introduced to sustainable development goals, climate questions, sustainable energy, renewable energy, clean energy, you know, all those beautiful terms, you know. And that really inspired me to know that, woah, there's a lot Africans need to do rather than just keep numb or keep paralyzed in the past while others evolve, you know, digitally, others use technology, others look for new ways to reinvent humanity.

Daniel Gbujie [00:05:18]:

We cannot keep being where we are, doing the same kind of things that have not changed anything. So I and many of the young Africans felt it would be wise to, you know, evolve and begin, you know, to to bring in this best sciences, evidence based sciences on how our environment, the policy we have, the way we do business, the way we articulate our views, the way we tell other members of the world, you know, the western world that we are an asset to be harnessed. But how do you know you're an asset to be harnessed if you don't know what it means to be harnessed? So, so over the years, I've evolved, like I said, but I'm proudly an African who understand where we should be and working with over Africans to bring about a better world for everyone Webb we all can see ourselves as, as brothers and sisters and as instruments of change for a better world. And that's the principle of sustainability. It's not about you. It's all also about those that are yet to come. However, the current people need to exist in time and space. Right? Why we do that? We do it in such a way that we do not disadvantage or we do not prevent those ones coming not to feel empowered, not to feel blessed with the natural resources that we have.

Daniel Gbujie [00:06:46]:

So so that's a little about, about about me. And,

Stuart Webb [00:06:51]:

That is that is if there is nothing else that you say today, Daniel, that shows well, 2 things. 1 of which is, you have a very, very impressive CV. You have got those honors that you've been brought in order to be able to bring that sustainability. From what you're learning back to where you went so that you can actually implement some of what you've learned, and we'll get on to how you're doing that. But also, Webb we I think we did at 1 stage on the sustainability world cup to talk about If there was 1 thing that we could teach everybody about sustainability, it would be to think not in quarters, not in years, but in decades because sustainability needs to needs to be thinking about not not not our children, but our children's children and the world we lead for the future because it is only by thinking in decades that we can actually start to see the sort of, the sort of effects Stuart we want. And I must admit, we we can get quite we can get quite distraught by some of what we see around us, but we have to realize that only a decade ago, this wasn't even a movement, and now it is embedded and people are Webb, and it is going to be different in another 10 years. So we need leaders like you in order to take people into that that new, that new thinking. So so that was a little bit about you and how you, you you you have become the person you are.

Stuart Webb [00:08:23]:

But how did you get involved in the Sustainability World Cup? What was it about it that you, that you that you that interested you, and how did you get involved? And and tell us a little bit more about the team that you're involved with.

Daniel Gbujie [00:08:35]:

Yes. Thank you. So I I feel it's just coincidence, and and I totally agree with your viewpoint that you must always be thinking futuristic, you must also be thinking of the actions you take now and how it has rippling effect in the future. And that's what really happened to me. So I did set up a nonprofit based organization here in the United States. Shortly after my training in Colorado at the Climate Reality Project, I, got to meet, a wonderful American lady. Her name is Renon Garriga, you know, and, we both got involved in the training, and we became mutual friends. And, over the years, we we we lost contact at some point.

Daniel Gbujie [00:09:23]:

But when she came back online, she saw that I had built a network of people across over a 100 questions, and I was really going into environmental climate actions, creating content, creating ideas, domesticating the knowledge of sustainability that involves vulnerable people, involves a better natural way we handle our natural resources to the benefit of people without creating poison, emissions, without, creating, distorting ecosystems. She liked the way that I was explaining, you know, the science behind climate change, the need for us to evolve, the need for us to be more smarter in our agricultural practice, cutting down trees indiscriminately to build shopping mall only for you to have flooding that kills thousands of people in less than 5 year. Doesn't make sense. So so so she loved all those concept. But somehow Webb lost contact. And then around March ending, you know, she reached out to me. Oh my goodness. You're doing a wonderful job.

Daniel Gbujie [00:10:27]:

I said, woah. Long time. What's going on? She says, there's this sustainability World Cup, and I know you are into sustainability development goals. They're all the same. It's just a process. It will be nice for you, you know, to gather your teams in team 54 project, you know, maybe 2 teams of 5 people, and let's see whether you can be in the final. I said, wow. That that would be nice.

Daniel Gbujie [00:10:51]:

I did not have any intention of joining. Mine was to push my team, push the movement, and bring them on board. And then somehow it now became a fact that we needed an African team, you know, and, I knew fully well that if the game is gonna be a simulation or an Internet based platform, it's gonna be hard because about the week, a week before the competition started, an undersea cable that runs through, West Africa got damaged. It had affected, you know, much of West Africa and some parts of the Central Africa. You could imagine. So already before now, the Internet penetrance was very poor. Now you now have a cable damage, so it's it only means it's gonna get worse. So I had to intervene, and and what what we did was we needed to now find, like, a team of people, you know, that has administrative background, marketing background.

Daniel Gbujie [00:11:52]:

I have a health background and a bit of sustainable development goal background. Having worked with the UN for some time, you know, and, I just decided that it would be nice to keep it within our team, you know, and, with her help and help of the organizers, we're able to form team Hakuna Matata. That's our AKA, you know, but we're team ambassador team. So it's, it's, it's providence, it's, hard work over the years, it's maintaining a steady relationship, it's also reaching out to my brothers within the continent and telling them that we cannot continue to remain where we are. If there's any opportunity to show the world how we think and articulate processes, It only adds value, you know, to the system. The world needs value, not not just the product, but a value based product. And the only way we can add value is to be part of the process, create, over own niche for ourselves, and get all these best sciences and domesticate it in the peculiarity of our region, in our social economic realities, so that our people know that we cannot remain where we are, and we cannot keep doing the same thing over and over again that has not given us a positive outcome, believing it will do the same thing. That's insanity.

Daniel Gbujie [00:13:25]:

So so the the the the opportunity that the sustainability woke up, you know, the little that I knew then created was something that I always five. I love a new challenge. I love innovation because I know innovation brings improvement. Improvement brings knowledge. Knowledge adds to culture change, the mentality, the mindset. So being a driven person, being a tech person, being someone who wants to showcase the continent as people that truly articulates knowledge, you know, I felt it was just, right to to, you know, represent the continent, and the game indeed created that platform well. You alongside the 8 judges and the organizers, professor Lila and Edmund, you know, created a wonderful game that is life changing. In short, I think it's the best content that we can ever have, you know, different from the kinds of game we always know, you know, the violent, the shooting, the slaying, and all this.

Daniel Gbujie [00:14:28]:

This is the content that can get you thinking. This is a content that does not create a monopolistic Stuart. No disrespect to monopoly, but the idea is that the sustainability principles are all immersed in this game. It's a tool that helps you think out of the box and helps you relay the concept of sustainability in a way that you have fun, build teamwork, you know, brainstorm with others, see the way people articulate thoughts, and then you know how to create the messaging. So so our our fusion in the game was just years of experience, years of building healthy relationship with environmental based people, and they're reaching out to us and say you're doing a good job. You can take this to another level, create content for the platform, inspire a new generation of people to better see what sustainability is from a gaming kind of point. So it was a match made in heaven, so to say.

Stuart Webb [00:15:29]:

So tell me, Daniel, what what advice would you give people? I'm going to just put the the the link now on the screen to show people where they can go and get some more information about what the Sustainability World Cup is. I mean, but what what advice would you have for people who might want to enter, next year and compete in the way that you have to and and achieve the sort of results, the sort of knowledge, the experience that you've got from, from entering for this year?

Daniel Gbujie [00:15:53]:

Yeah. So for for those wanting to enter for next year, I would just say have an open mind. You know? 1st, ask yourself, the world in which we're living in, are you very comfortable with the way things are going? Whether it's governance, whether it's your future, whether it's the future of the kids, is there a tool or an alternative way to press the reset button and start to have the mindset that respects the environment, respects people, and can still help you make your livelihood. You understand? In such a way that you are not a threat to not just yourself humans because humans think they're the only ones on the planet. No. No. No. No.

Daniel Gbujie [00:16:36]:

There are other non living things and living things that do not speak like us or go to school. But they are very important in creating the balance that we need. So there are lower animals, there are birds, there are animals, there are insects, There are bacterias. All of all these are part of the balancing act within a biosphere. So if you feel very passionate about being an agent of change and creating stability, sustainable development World Cup platform is a wonderful way to do that with a team, to do that, you know, enjoying yourself, you know, building that leadership trait, seeing how people articulate thoughts, listening to the judges, how they crystallize their opinions, you know, how they tell you that sustainability has many terms. Sustainability is a kind of improvement. Sustainability is a kind of social vehicle that creates change that we badly need in light of, you know, the growing, emission, in light of the the pollution, in light of the flooding, in light of climate crisis, if there's any way that we need to change our ways, we need to change the ways from where our pockets are. You know? Once we're able to control where we spend our money, we'll be able to be able to create a better definition of what wealth should be, a better definition that includes everyone, inclusivity, diversity.

Daniel Gbujie [00:18:07]:

These are terms that look so big, but these are the principles that sustainability, you know, drives on, that you cannot leave anyone behind. Anytime you develop or do anything, whether you you create a new financial market system, a new health system, a new educational system, a new fashion system that does not include the people, that does not include respect for the environment. Any system you build with no respect for the environment, for the people, for inclusion. It's not gonna be sustainable. It will not stand the taste of time. And when chaos begins to come, you will just fall like a pack of cat. However, if you absorb the sustainability principle that says that you can exist in time and space and create hope for the people coming and empower them as quick as possible, If you factor in environmental factors, you factor in social factors, you ensure that there are policies that protect our natural resources. You ensure that the decisions you make are all in the interest of the common good, not just America, UK, Europe, but also Africans.

Daniel Gbujie [00:19:20]:

Yes. These are some of the things that the game brings to you. And the game has its own calculations. The game teaches you how to really apply, you know, this is a financial game. So the corporate sustainability definition, how it connects with your everyday life, how you see the indices and the components that helps you grow and develop, you know, business and even your individual life. So I will encourage you five an open mind, be willing to learn, and then listen to the instructors, listen to what they say, follow those terms, ESG, environment, social, governance, framework, or indices. What it means is the corporate way that investors use to assess companies now to know whether they are viable for investment. You know, if you want to develop anything, your Stuart up ideas, if it doesn't have the elements of respecting natural resources, including people, targeting vulnerable community, meeting the needs of people, protecting environment.

Daniel Gbujie [00:20:27]:

It's not gonna stand the taste of time. It will just come and go.

Stuart Webb [00:20:31]:

Daniel, I mean, I think if anybody has any questions about why you were the, the the the the leader and voted the most, the the the best leader in this Sustainability World Cup. They've got a very good idea from what you've just said, how well you and you embrace Stuart, what you what you've what what you've learned from it. But what are you doing with your knowledge now? What are you doing in order to take this to the next level? How are you using those experiences? You've spoken a little bit about the nonprofit, but what are you now doing with those with those experiences in order to take you into the next, into the next phase of your, your journey?

Daniel Gbujie [00:21:08]:

Yes. Thank you. What we're now doing, what I am doing along with the team is creating awareness for the people back in the African continent. We are beginning to see a lot of people, you know, want to be in the next game. I know our friends in Ghana, I know friends in Ghana that want to set up 4, 5 teams, you know. I know people in South Sudan, they say they want to get involved in the team. And because, you know, the the the competition has a bit of benefits. Webb, it has a certificate that's given to you.

Daniel Gbujie [00:21:39]:

Secondly, it gives you visibility and exposure. Thirdly, you come into a community of people who are seasoned experts in corporate sustainability, and, and that's if you do your homework well, you can network well. Of course, while in the game, I develop an idea around an app called test. The app is to create a bit of awareness and see how sustainability can be done on an individual level. You know? So if you are a housewife and you have the app on your system and you want to see, okay, how can I be sustainable this week? You type in all the things you wanna do, and the app is able to give you, like, an idea. It's like a chat gpt of sustainability. You know, if you are a tomato seller, you want to sell tomatoes, you don't know how to be sustainable, it starts from the farm, right? Farm to the market. You know? So it tells you the farm to the market principles, areas where you can leverage on local sourcing, area where you can even have your own greenhouse stuff.

Daniel Gbujie [00:22:42]:

So those are kinds of the things that I've learned from the game. But most importantly is to raise awareness amongst my kind, The people in the continent, you know, explain sustainability in the language they understand. Swahili is the most spoken language in the central and the southern part of Africa. Hausa is 1 major language spoken in the entire Western African region and some parts of North Africa. In somewhere within the Southern Africa, we have Portuguese too. Angola, Mozambique, they speak Portuguese too. And of course, in most of West African, we have the Commonwealth of Nations that the English speaking part of it. So how to domesticate this knowledge of sustainability that every single person had to contribute towards that sustainability pool.

Daniel Gbujie [00:23:32]:

It is that critical mass of people that move the needle of progress. Just me and you doing things when 7 0.8000000000 people are not doing it will not work. Just United States and China believing that they are doing sustainability. It ain't gonna work. What truly works is when we have critical mass of people at the same time doing in their only 2 corner the sustainability. Got it. The sustainability principles. Now, doing that creates a culture.

Daniel Gbujie [00:24:04]:

Remember, a culture is formed when bulk sum of people over time. Aggregating their thoughts and are believing in a system that will drive them towards the promised land. It's not few people. We have to do this together, and we have to uplift those that are not in the current position to help themselves. And that's why I always want to use platform like yours that you are creating for us. Reach out to our leaders. You know? See young people in the continent, especially Gen Z's, especially people in the nineties and the eighties. We're tired of being, being told about the colonial time.

Daniel Gbujie [00:24:42]:

When we know the world has evolved, we just want to eat our fries. We just want to eat our fufu and Gary. We want to watch our Netflix. We want our kids to go to good schools. You know, trying to create an environment of toxicity won't work, especially now that young people know what's going on, is what's going on in in in Kenya. It's happening in Nigeria. It's happening everywhere. Young people, especially Africans, are tired, and they are showing their skills in music.

Daniel Gbujie [00:25:13]:

Almost every musician now sings African music. And go and check the age of all the African musicians that are topping the chart now all over the world. Bonaboye is in his thirties. Right? Davido is in his thirties. These are young people who are tired of how their, ecospace is not allowing them to evolve. When they see global best practices, they bring it on board and then they become celebrity. It's the same thing with the sustainability workers. So we're encouraging, Africans, young Africans, you know, partner with the sustainability world cup team, create a miniature version of your own, use that to identify young people that think critically out of the box, incentivize people, tell these young people whatever comes out of this will be to the development of your people.

Daniel Gbujie [00:26:02]:

You know? And all this will bring progress, development, and then investors will see that there's a critical mass of people who understand sustainability. Why not we go to invest? Because investors are also looking. Do we have resources? Human resources. It's not just about capital. Do we have human resources? Do we have the right environment? You know, to ensure development goes forward. Sustainable development or sustainability cannot work when there is conflict. It's simple. And the principle of sustainability defines itself that you have to be more inclusive, more transparent, more honest.

Daniel Gbujie [00:26:37]:

You have to respect the entire ecosystem. So domesticating this knowledge will be very central and that's what I intend to do with my app. Of course, working with you and many of, you know, many of the judges and many of our new partners that are relating to us. I truly believe we can have an app that can, you know, translate sustainability in all the major languages in Africa and remind people that sustainability can be on a personal level, on a subnational level, on a national level, and, of course, on a global level. But when all these connect together, that's only when we drive the sustainable development. You know? So these are some of the things we're doing. And then before I end, 1 of my teammates, sorry, 1 of my teammates is trying to build a cubicle, a cubicle that is called a solar box. He wants to build it at the center of a major market.

Daniel Gbujie [00:27:32]:

Now that solar box will have sockets all around about the 1, 000 sockets within the center so people can plug in their stuff, you know, you can barbecue, you can cook, you can trim hair, you know, you can refrigerate, you know, something like that. So these are some of the things we're trying to do, you know, eco smart practices, pilot projects in some of this stuff, you know, bringing in these principles we've learned within the and the things you've taught us within the game. So those are the few things.

Stuart Webb [00:28:03]:

Daniel, if there is anything I can do I mean, it it what you you you are you are you are an impressive an impressive leader. I think we can all agree that. And, I will once again I would just put up. This is, this is Daniel's, LinkedIn profile, which you'll find on LinkedIn, obviously. If you're not following somebody as impressive as doctor Daniel Bougie, then go follow him now because this man is gonna go a long way, really a long way. Daniel, IIII just wanna ask you 1 final questions, and the question obviously is, I haven't asked you 1 question that you must be burning for me to ask. What is the 1 question that you think I should five asked that I haven't yet?

Daniel Gbujie [00:28:47]:

Oh my goodness. Woah. That is so good. Okay. So 1 question I truly feel that you should have asked me is, what drives Africans to to to be much resilient, you know, in light of the things they see, in light of the things some of their leaders do. And why is it that when they move to clients or environments that are very, merit based, they always excel.

Stuart Webb [00:29:23]:

Mhmm.

Daniel Gbujie [00:29:24]:

So I I feel that that question will also go a long way.

Stuart Webb [00:29:27]:

What is the answer to the question?

Daniel Gbujie [00:29:29]:

And the answer is that the truth of the matter is that progress and development are a mixture of 2 walls. The those that do not have and those that have. Now the problem often is for those that don't have, if they're not inspired to want to have, it becomes difficult for them because they become paralyzed and they will not five, and the circle of poverty continues. But when you have experienced not having and you have the willpower, the I believe kind of mentality, the growth mindset, you know, when you observe best Webb you see evidence based science, when you seek knowledge and understanding, when you domesticate this knowledge and understand it with your African belief system. My African belief system tells me that we are community driven. There's a community based approach that brings about development. And that's the definition of sustainability. It's not a 1 person thing.

Daniel Gbujie [00:30:33]:

Now my African belief system tells me that, my brothers, my uncles, my mom, my dad, my nephews, my are all part of that eco space. And I must work hard to defend, you know, that community, that unionism, that common goal, that common agenda. Now all of those things build resilience. Remember, I'm a reflection of many things I have seen. Knowledges I've gotten in the US, experiences I've gotten in Africa, experience I've gotten in my marriage, experiences I five seen on TV. All of us are a reflection of that. However, we can turn that around. We can absorb those positive attributes and bring to light and inspire new generation of people that, yes, you see my skin like this, but I think differently.

Daniel Gbujie [00:31:21]:

I know that 4.03 parts per million is not good for the climate. I know the emphasis is to bring down carbon emission to pre industrial level. I know fully well that you may be concerned about your polar beer, but my brothers in Ethiopia are more concerned about their goods, their millet, their means. They are all needs that are different. However, it is the human needs that brings us together. And that if we work together in such a way that those that do not have and those that have can come together, we can build a better world where people that don't have now have hope and aspiration to learn because they know that their brothers that have are willing to help them pull them up the ladder of progress. So our resilience as an African, young man, young woman, or Africans you see are a reflection of our environment. But what has changed over the last 30 years is that young people do not want to get sucked up.

Daniel Gbujie [00:32:26]:

You know, we want to ensure that this resilient mindset which is also part of the definition of sustainability. Ability in the long run to sustain, you know, a culture that respects everything within the environment, respects the system established, respect regulatory laws that protects the natural resources in such a way that is beneficial for us that are currently alive and all. That's the textbook of resilient. And that's what I've known all my five. You know? So when I walk to school and don't have school bus, I know fully well I need to read harder than everybody in my class, you know, because I know that the knowledge I will get will articulate the way I think will help me be able to communicate to you who do not know my world very Webb, but you will now say, I can resonate with what Daniel is saying. He's he's dressed differently. He's definitely an African, but he's speaking a language that I can relate with. So it's what resilient does, it's what knowledge base does.

Daniel Gbujie [00:33:27]:

You're able to bring your experience as an African, relate it with those in the questions world, and create that bridge that is badly needed. Yes. It's the bridge that we're important. To develop ourselves.

Stuart Webb [00:33:39]:

Bridge is very important. Daniel, this has been a fascinating fascinating insight into the way you think, and it is an absolute demonstration of the reasons why you won that award as the leader of, of of note. You are you are obviously going a long way, and thank you so much for spending a few minutes talking to us. I really appreciate your insights On the message that we all need to learn to think about, as Daniel's just said, we might be worried about, whether or not we're we're emitting too much carbon. But today, in Africa, in Ethiopia, somebody's worried about whether or not their goats have got enough millet and remembering that we need to bring everybody together, I wanna thank you very much for spending some time with us. If you would like to get on to the newsletter, which will announce who we have coming up on future of these LinkedIn five and podcasts, please go to this link. That's link. Thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter.

Stuart Webb [00:34:44]:

That's httpscolonforward/link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. Daniel, I can't thank you enough for spending a few minutes with us. I can't thank you enough for your contribution, and I can't do anything but wish you, that you take this learning these experiences and continue to drive them forward into what I know you're gonna make a huge success of how you take forward your sustainability goals. Thank you.

Daniel Gbujie [00:35:15]:

Thank you so much, Saf, for giving Africans like me the opportunity. This is what it means to be sustainable. This is what it means to be, your brother's keeper. This is how we build community. We use our platform to uplift others because in the long run, we are uplifting millions of more people. So I really am very appreciative. Again, I wanna thank you for all the comments for teaching the 50 of us who are participant, the 10 teams, you know, your contribution about improvement, advancement, you know, being realistic in real time, you know, all those things have taken them to heart, you know, and I'm looking forward to working with you, you know, learning more. It's a learning thing.

Daniel Gbujie [00:35:55]:

Nobody knows it all. You must continually evolve. Many people don't know that Facebook started as a campus, go to place. Now it's a marketplace. It's almost like a bank. You get paid on Facebook now. So what it means is that ideas evolve over time. It's never static.

Daniel Gbujie [00:36:13]:

And that's the same thing with sustainability. In the long run, you have to evolve but in such a way that you are very protective of the environment, the people, you bring everybody along in a transparent way. So I'm eternally grateful to Edmund and professor Lisa, and I'm commit completely committed to 2025. I hope to see more team participation, you know, in any way possible, you know, whether as a mentor, whether to advise people, whether as an emcee, you know, or whether even as a TV show because I see the sustainability World Cup 1 day becoming a TV show where you'll be a judge and then everybody will say, ah, that's the first judge in the show. So but the idea is that it's a wonderful opportunity. It's a good game that brings like minds together. When you leave the game, your life is never the same.

Stuart Webb [00:37:03]:

What more can I say? Daniel, thank you so much for spending some time with us. Thank you.

Who is Lubna?

Lubna Samara is a seasoned healer and leadership coach who specializes in well-being coaching for people in the workplace. With a focus on supporting individuals at all levels of the organization, she helps senior leaders and lower-ranking employees navigate the challenges they face. She understands the toll that burnout and feelings of being marginalized can take on individuals in the professional world, and is dedicated to providing the support and guidance needed to thrive in the workplace. Through her work, Lubna seeks to create a more inclusive and supportive environment for all.

Key Takeaways

00:00 Healing, coaching, and support for workplace struggles.

06:10 Book focuses on holistic healing and psychology.

07:44 Unlocking superconscious mind for personal and workplace success.

12:32 Focus on the positive, nature heals tech burnout.

14:26 Book integrates psychology, coaching, meditation, and energy.

18:35 Thank you, check out newsletter and subscribe.

Valuable Free Resource or Action

Download a workbook from www.higherwill.com with a copy of Lubna’s book “Beyond Potential”

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Transcript

Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

healing, well-being, leadership, coaching, burnout, confidence, imposter syndrome, procrastination, work environment, imposter syndrome, meditation, energy healing, mindfulness, emotional intelligence, resilience, empathy, personal development, business, book Beyond Potential, values, purpose, intuition, energy fields, body-mind-spirit, team building, stress management, leadership coaching, energy exercises, empowerment, mindfulness exercises

SPEAKERS

Lubna Samara, Stuart Webb

Stuart Webb [00:00:22]:

Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science five questions over coffee. I actually don't have a coffee in front of me right at the moment. This is a fruit tea, because I've had quite a lot of coffee already today, and therefore, I'm trying to reduce the amount of caffeine in my system. But I'm delighted to be joined by, Lubna Samara. Lubna is a an award winning leadership and well-being coach. She works with healing and she's a best selling author of a book called Beyond Potential. I'm sure we're gonna get into that in just a moment which is a number 1 in 7 categories, including business. So we're gonna talk a little bit how this applies to business.

Stuart Webb [00:01:05]:

So welcome to It's Not Rocket Science five Questions Over Coffee, Lubna.

Lubna Samara [00:01:10]:

Hello, Stuart. Hi. Good to be here.

Stuart Webb [00:01:12]:

Thank you. So so, Lubna, who who is who is it you're trying to help, particularly in in the work you do? And and I know it's not just about healing, but it's about leadership as well.

Lubna Samara [00:01:24]:

Yes. It is. I am a long standing healer, but I also do leadership coaching and well-being coaching. So I I specifically work for with people at work. And, my work basically, I try and help out anybody in the workplace who needs help, you know, whether you're senior leadership or whether you're kind of lower down the ranks and, you're really struggling. And a lot of people struggle with so many different, issues at work. Burnout tends to be a little bit higher up, you know, with with leadership because they tend to be just so overworked and professional and and perfectionist often Stuart, that kind of five, that character five. But a lot of people feel overlooked in the workplace And 1 of the very common things that we don't often hear about is somebody thinking their boss doesn't like them and they end up feeling marginalized at work because people know what's going on.

Lubna Samara [00:02:23]:

And when they turn to their colleagues, their colleagues kind of back off. They don't really want to get involved because that might put them in a bad place with their boss. So that is a very common problem, and, strangely enough, it actually works the other way. You know, leaders can be as phased by somebody in their team not being very nice to them as the other way around. And this, you know, these are problems that can be very easily worked with. Then you've got people who have lack of confidence. And without that lack without confidence, often people are scared to speak up. They won't put themselves up for projects.

Lubna Samara [00:03:01]:

They won't put their hands up. They won't put their input in. And they may have really valuable input, but they don't feel comfortable opening up and sharing because maybe they're scared of ridicule or for whatever reason. So these are, and of course the usual suspects like imposter syndrome is really a big 1 as well, especially with people who are working in a corporate environment and they may not have formal education. These people can have amazing personal resources and knowledge base and skill sets, but they kind of think that over people or their colleagues will not accept them or to the same level. And, they often suffer, you know, sometimes people can suffer from that, and and of course, you know, procrastination, all the usual things that people really suffer with in the workplace, I've dealt with, you know, that's

Stuart Webb [00:03:58]:

And what do you find people that you are dealing with have have tried in the past, Lubna, to sort of overcome these issues before before they sort of seek help from somebody like yourself?

Lubna Samara [00:04:07]:

Five mean, the reason why I was smiling is because just, a couple of my clients were very senior. And, 1 of the symptoms of burnout actually that, again, is very little spoken about, is anger management. Now this is 1 of the less appealing manifestations of stress. And, like, these guys have kind of smashed laptops down in meetings, coffee pots, and, and they end up getting blacklisted across the board, right, because of that kind of behavior. And typically, they come to me saying, you know, don't talk to me about my mother. And obviously, obviously, they've been sent to therapy before. You know? So III don't start off with that. We start with the behavioral aspects.

Lubna Samara [00:05:00]:

And as soon as they feel more in control, they kind of start thinking, well, I I need to look deeper. And then we do go back into that. So that is, 1 aspect, say, of burnout that can really that is more unusual. That is more unusual. But typically most people have tried working on themselves, they've tried personal development, they've tried, they're actually curious. A lot of people already have analyzed and worked out the whole situation and that's 1 of the problems in fact, Because jumping to conclusions can create even more problems and can keep you stuck in a loop.

Stuart Webb [00:05:45]:

That's amazing. We're gonna get to your to your book and I guess, I'll I'll I'll I'll put a a scroll up now about, your book which is which is Beyond Potential. Stuart to me a little bit about, thank you.

Lubna Samara [00:06:00]:

Talk to

Stuart Webb [00:06:01]:

me a little bit about about Beyond Potential and and and the sort of advice that you five, in the book.

Lubna Samara [00:06:10]:

The book deals with all these issues basically. And, more than that though, I mean, apart from it's the way we're working. I, again, as a healer, I'm very keen on raising awareness and so that people can become independent and catch their problems themselves, So we work holistically, body, heart, mind and spirit, and Webb work literally section by section. So in chapter 2, we're really looking at the more physiological kind of problems like triggering and anxiety triggering and jumping to conclusions. It's our expectations. I mean, these are all psychology theories that are very well established that show us how these can get us into into trouble and how to fix them. The the workarounds generally can be quite easy to manage. So the book tells you how to do that.

Lubna Samara [00:07:05]:

In chapter 3, we look at emotional intelligence and how to raise that. We look at emotional sovereignty and how to bring your awareness back and calm your heart down. It's when our hearts get engaged, our our we lose clarity. When we lose clarity, we we end up stuck. You know, this is really I'm very, very big on clarity and gaining clarity. Through calming the heart and the mind, we start gaining clarity. And, in chapter 3, we look at resilience and empathy. And then we move into chapter 4, which is more about the mind and how to get the mind to to get rid of all the fog in the mind.

Lubna Samara [00:07:44]:

But also as a healer, I work a lot with the superconscious mind, the higher mind, and coaches these days call this your genius. And accessing that part of our minds and each 1 of us has it, you know, you're born it's a facility you're born with. It's not a question of, you know, you've already got it and chances are almost everybody would have used it, would be using it at some level without really being aware of it. So bringing more awareness to that, developing that brings very tangible benefits to the workplace, five better communications, better focus and concentration, and and inspiring creativity. So and then in chapter 5 Webb then look for me what is the heart of the book is really the spirit aspect Webb we're going deeper into the self, we're looking at values, we're looking at purpose, we're looking at a deeper alignment, we're looking at connecting better to our work environment, to our family, to our community, and to be more authentic, and how to do all of that. So that's the book kind of takes you through all of these chapter by chapter pretty much and in the final chapter, in the beginning of the book, we start by looking at what your dreams were, what did you want to do when you were a child and how has Stuart, what aspects have you taken through into adulthood? And in the final chapter, we end up doing your journey of transformation. So we look at where you are today, what are the challenges that have held you back and taking you to the dreams that you've and your ambitions to and charting that path clearly. So that's basically the book.

Stuart Webb [00:09:25]:

Brilliant. Brilliant. You have a you have AAA Webb as well, higherwill.com. Are there are there any, pieces of advice, workbooks, and things like that on the on the website which can help people to understand better themselves what they're trying to do?

Lubna Samara [00:09:45]:

There are a lot of blogs actually on the website. So for instance, there is, 1 blog, to do with values and and and that gives, I give an exercise on team building in that. But the work there is a workbook that comes with the book Beyond Potential, which I've kept at a low price. I mean, it's 2 past 40 for the Kindle version. And, with that, at the end of chapter 1, you can download the workbook for free, which is a substantial document in its own right. It's it's a it's a 50 page document. At the moment, it's free with the book, and, that takes you chapter by chapter through all the exercises. Actually, I was talking to somebody a few days ago, and, he was telling me how he loved 1 of the meditations.

Lubna Samara [00:10:31]:

And actually it's an energy exercise, a very simple I give you very simple energy exercises in the book, in the workbook, because developing that is a really important aspect, but we'll come to that in a minute I think. But it's, yeah, so he was telling me how much he loved it and how it actually healed his neck, which he was struggling with for some days. And, yeah. So it's and and there are also meditations.

Stuart Webb [00:11:00]:

There there

Lubna Samara [00:11:01]:

are a lot of exercises, so that is free with the workbook. I'm sorry. That is free with the book. The workbook is free with the book. And, and also there are a lot of diagrams in the book. And, you also get with the book AAA PDF of all the diagrams in color because they make a lot more sense in color.

Stuart Webb [00:11:22]:

Tell me, you you you were you're sort of talking that a little bit about, about, these meditations. I mean, how did you how did you discover this? How did you get into it? What was the what was the the the the source of this, for you and and how is how is this helped the leaders that you that you're working with now?

Lubna Samara [00:11:41]:

Well, that's a good question. I got into it it's a long it's a long story. I was actually, a mathematician who worked in the petroleum industry, then I moved into banking, I did an MBA in finance, and I started seeing energy fields. And, I never really expected to be a healer. I I Webb along, and the first course I went to was in January 93. So it's a long time. And I really just did it to get an experience of what it was about. You know, I was doing a lot of Tai Chi and a lot of meditation which I developed myself and I went to a lot of classes and I kind of put together what I liked, which was about feeling the love cause I see it all around us and focusing on that.

Lubna Samara [00:12:32]:

It's really, you know, you can focus on all the negativity, which is gonna keep your thoughts over, you know. But if you focus on all the five, you can rise above pretty much anything. And it really is about, you know, the old Oscar Wilde adage, you know, we're all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the Stuart, right? So it's about that. And the meditations really developed out of that. And the guided meditations are part meditations and part energy work. So we start with grounding and grounding and connecting to earth is extremely important and that helps anybody. I mean, people with tech burnout five, in Japan, they send them, they they use forest bathing to to heal people with tech burnout because nature is such an important part and harmonizing our energy fields with nature is extremely important. We can do it through energy healing but you can do it just by going out for long walks in nature.

Lubna Samara [00:13:31]:

Your energy fields will harmonize and and and nature is a massive healer for us, you know, so everybody benefits from that. You know, this is 1 of the reasons why people go in teams to to to go hiking together and to it resets It sets us all on the same level. We're all equal where nature is concerned and it builds connectedness and it's over healing thing to do.

Stuart Webb [00:14:02]:

Lubna, we've been talking for a while now and and you've answered some questions very fully. There must be 1 that you're currently thinking. I I do wish you'd ask me about this because that's the real critical question. So tell me what's that question that you really want me to ask and obviously, as you've asked, you will have asked a brilliant questions. You better give us an answer to it. So what's that question you really do think I should have asked you?

Lubna Samara [00:14:26]:

I'm not sure it's a critical question, but it's a question I've been asked quite a lot since actually I gave the book to my beta readers from the beginning. In the book Webb work with 4 modalities: we work with psychology and coaching as 1 pillar. We work with meditation as a second pillar. Webb work with energy works, energy, the principles of energy healing, and we work with the quest, your questions in what it is in life. Right? Now I've been asked from the beginning, do you need to put the energy works in? What does it contribute? Because it's a bit weird and it might put people off who are who don't believe in it. And I would just say, first of all, there is a lot of research to show that energy healing does work. I mean, clinically, 1 of the largest, I'm with an organization called The Healing Trust and 1 of the largest clinical trials was actually done by 1 of the fellows of the Healing Trusts, Sandy Edwards with Birmingham City University. And the results of that trial were so, Webb so strong that the, doctor Michael Dixon, who's head of the Royal Medical Household and past head of the past chair of the NHS Alliance wrote a forward for the book recommending and I think, I hope I'm getting this right, but I think he recommends that the NHS should take it very seriously and start looking at bringing in healers into the NHS to cut costs.

Lubna Samara [00:16:01]:

So there's a lot of research, a lot of it is in the book, throughout the book is kind of peppered in. But for me, I really wanted to put it in because as somebody who myself was skeptical about it and I was kind of, when I was still working in banking and I started seeing energy fields and I started doing a lot of Tai Chi and meditation, somebody stopped me and said, you know, you've got very strong energy, you should do energy healing. And I was like, I don't do that. I'm a mathematician. And then I caught myself and I thought, oh God, I hate that kind of thinking, I'm gonna go. And so I did really, I went really as to find out a little bit more about it and how it works. And by the 3rd session I came out, you know, I was like, wow. You know, I was really I felt struck and I was thinking Webb use 5 to 7% of our cognitive processes.

Lubna Samara [00:16:58]:

This is some of the rest. And I realized I'm not using my usual kind of mind. So in a nutshell, energy healing, just developing the faculty. I don't teach in the book how to heal other people, but just to develop the faculty and to understand the basics, give you very basic exercises to heal yourself, but it you can't heal without empathy. Okay? It's really it's it's it's it so it really develops your empathy. It really develops your intuition because you're using your intuitive faculties. And I teach you how to do that in the book in order to connect more fully to your over senses. And you see people from Oprah Winfrey Stuart to to Jeff, gosh I've forgotten his name, the guy who started Amazon.

Stuart Webb [00:17:50]:

Bezos.

Lubna Samara [00:17:51]:

Thank you. All of them attribute their success to their intuition. And research even shows that of leaders over successful, very successful people over a 10 year period, all of them, most of them attribute their success to their intuition. So this is extremely important, faculty. And healing helps you to develop that awareness, but also it helps you to connect your higher mind. So we heal with that and, the practice of it, the discipline of it. If I had my way, I would get children to do that at school and get them to develop it very early on because the benefits are so powerful. And so that's really the 1 question that I would have asked you.

Stuart Webb [00:18:35]:

Lopne, thank you very much for for spending a few minutes with us and and talking about that. I'm I know you're a a busy person and so I'm gonna I'm gonna leave you to get on and and help others. I'm just gonna just gonna point out, as we come to the end, if you would like to, get on to the newsletter and find out when people like over, I'm a great guest. Coming on to this podcast to talk so that you can engage ask questions get on to the to the to this link, which is HTTPS colon forward slash forward slash link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. That's link dot the complete approach.co.uk forward slash newsletter and obviously like and subscribe to this podcast as well and tell all your friends about it because that way we get more people knowing about the great work that people like over are doing at the moment to help us all so love with all of that, said. Thank you so much for coming in and spending a few minutes with us really appreciate the time that you've spent and well get out there and help a few more people to overcome some of those stresses and, burnout that I know it is a major problem in businesses today.

Lubna Samara [00:19:50]:

And, Stuart, thank you very much for having this platform and hosting people like me and, I look forward to seeing more of your podcasts.

Stuart Webb [00:19:58]:

Thank you, Lorna.

Lubna Samara [00:20:00]:

Thank you.

Who is Alex?

Alex Dumas is a passionate advocate for representation and diversity in the boardroom. Facing the fear of failure and the pressure of succeeding for future generations, Alex understands the importance of focusing on the generational impact while not sabotaging oneself. With a belief in regrouping and recovering from mistakes, Alex aims to break the stigma attached to people of color in the corporate world. Through their work, Alex is committed to creating a more inclusive and accepting environment for all professionals.

Key Takeaways

00:00 Challenges facing people of color in leadership.

04:37 Coaching changed perspectives, empowering questions lead forward.

07:00 Nonprofit leaders face burnout from overcommitment.

12:47 Free audio gift to improve leadership skills.

16:59 Early coaching was about impressing, now understanding matters.

20:26 Alex, thank you for the insightful chat.

22:02 Grateful for the opportunity to make a difference.

Valuable Free Resource or Action

Download a FREE audio lesson https://www.alexdumascoaching.com/f/everybody-wins

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Transcript

Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

world champion boxer, warm up, business leaders, mindset, fear, competition, inspirational, motivational speaker, teamwork, individual, team, potential, self-improvement, frequency of vibration, mindset, brain health, Samaritan, mental boxing, mental health, future, identity crisis, depression, bankruptcy, Landmark Forum, team support, positivity, newsletter, insights, life lessons, business owners

SPEAKERS

Alex Dumas, Stuart Webb

Stuart Webb [00:00:15]:

Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science five questions over Coffee. My, well, my coffee is here in front of me. I'm here with Alex, my guest today. Alex, really pleased to have you on. Alex is a a keynote speaker and executive coach. He's a a a global movement leader, and he's the VP of the BIPOC Coach Collective and a partner of black leaders worldwide. Again, a man with a really impressive CV. So I'm really looking forward to the to the discussion we're gonna have today.

Stuart Webb [00:00:42]:

Alex, welcome to It's Not Rocket Science. Five questions over coffee.

Alex Dumas [00:00:48]:

Hey. Great morning, Stuart. Thank you for this invitation. Looking forward to this conversation.

Stuart Webb [00:00:53]:

Terrific. Well, look. Let's start with the the the the the reason that we're here, Alex. So who who are the people you're trying to help? You know, you've got an impressive CVU. You're working with some impressive people. Who who are those people that you're trying to help? What What's the the main problem they face in their business and personal lives?

Alex Dumas [00:01:11]:

Yeah. Great question. A lot of my work has been centered around black executive men, BIPOC leaders of color. So sometimes they're in the corporate spaces. Sometimes they're entrepreneurs, so they're coaches, consultants, things of that nature. And there's some specific challenges that they're having. Some of them look like this Webb leaders, in this case, can feel isolated. They can feel lonely because they may be the only one in the room that looks like them.

Alex Dumas [00:01:37]:

They may be going to boardrooms or having these conversations in c suite, and they're they're trying to crack over get in that room or if they're they're already in there, they're like, well, I'm the only one here. Maybe I'm not gonna be respected. Maybe I'm not gonna be, accepted, which is a big challenge. They have this fear of failure. Right? They're carrying this pressure of, I have to succeed so that generations down the line have opportunities too, and I'm a big proponent of that. I I really believe in making sure we focus on the generational impact, but not to the degree where it sabotages ourselves, where we harm ourselves to to be perfect, to get everything right because, Stuart, if you're like me, you make mistakes. You you flub, you you you mess up things, and then you regroup and recover. And, unfortunately, out here in America, there is that challenge of if you do mess up, if you're a person of color, then there's that stigma attached.

Alex Dumas [00:02:39]:

Like, oh, maybe he wasn't good enough. Maybe she wasn't smart enough, maybe we rushed her into this promotion, maybe he's not really built for this yet. And so there is that pressure to to perform, but at the same time, I look at helping them expand their dreams. Right? The dreams of this generational impact of breaking these generational curses of achieving these the financial freedom that is vital for our lives. So if someone says, hey. Money's not important. Like, let's just get back into reality for a second. Money is pretty important to support a lifestyle and and support different ventures that they five.

Alex Dumas [00:03:22]:

And and really the the the big dream is embracing their authenticity. Right? Just

Stuart Webb [00:03:30]:

Mhmm.

Alex Dumas [00:03:30]:

Being themselves, showing up, and feeling the weight release, feeling the feeling the pressure gone, and they know that they can do their best work without this this weight on them. So those are the type of things that I work on with clients and one on one are in groups, and these are the secret dreams, the secret fears that sometimes they don't wanna admit, but it's there. That's it's what gets in the way most times of really breaking through ascending to a neck to their next level of success.

Stuart Webb [00:04:01]:

Alex, tell me, you you've talked talked passionately there about, you know, getting away from some of those sort of barriers that that that inhibit. I know I know you must look at some of these leaders and think, well, you know, these are the things you're doing wrong, and I'll I'll get to that in a minute. But how did you overcome some of those, some of those problems yourself? How did you manage to break through from where you were into where you are now?

Alex Dumas [00:04:37]:

Yeah. Good question. There's a combination of things. 1, I would say coaching was one of the big maybe maybe the biggest influence of helping me just see life differently because I came from a background of middle middle class, you know, youngest of 4 children. So I'd like to say that my parents saved the best for last, But I grew up not feeling important, feeling invisible, being in different spaces where I didn't feel heard, I didn't feel seen. And what I saw is the differences, the quality of questions I would ask myself when I was younger, going into young adulthood, all these different things. I would ask myself questions five, why is life this way? Why can't I have this? Why isn't this meant for me or why can't I be here? Those aren't bad questions, but what I found was a space to ask myself empowering questions. Questions like, well, what do I wanna create from this? What do I wanna choose to do here? Who's available or what is available that can help me and that can serve me? How can I contribute? Right? That helps that's helped me move forward.

Alex Dumas [00:05:43]:

So coaching and and mentorship has been a big part and, obviously, the other big revelation or the the big influence in my life has been my wife. My wife, Sarah, we've been together now for 18 years, married for 14, and she is one of the first people outside of my family, you know, and and friends, but someone who really helped me anchor and ground myself and see possibility. And I like to say it like this, if I could see a possibility that I could be in the possibility. If I don't see an option, if I don't believe that there's an opportunity for me, then the obstacles are just gonna be all I see. That's gonna be in front of my face, and I won't be able to advance.

Stuart Webb [00:06:29]:

That's great news. That's great. Jules, just giving you a a big big big up big up there, Alex, with with Go Alex. So I'm pleased. Jules, thank you for watching in. So we we were talking a little bit about some of the the leaders you're trying to help. Tell me, you know, what is it they've done before they sort of turn to the sort of advice, coaching that you can bring to them and help them? How have they tried to effectively, how have they tried to solve their own problem?

Alex Dumas [00:07:00]:

Yeah. They they've gone down a road that I've gone down when I was in nonprofit leadership for for 10 years where, 1, I would say they would try too hard. Right? Just try to force, like I mentioned before, the the pressure, they might look like working long hours, less sleep, kinda getting on the grind, you know, 5 AM wake up, 2 2 AM, go to sleep. Right? And just having this unhealthy attachment and and really addiction to trying to be successful in sacrificing time with family, sacrificing their own health journey, sacrificing if they're a person of faith or spiritual practice. Right? Because they have to get it done. They have to achieve it. They have to make the thing happen. Another challenge that I see for them and and I laugh because this is this is my life for many years of not asking for help of I should know this already.

Alex Dumas [00:07:56]:

I'm in this position. If I ask, then someone's gonna know that I don't know the answer, and then I look Stuart, and then they don't trust me and right? All these things that we make up in our heads, and that's that breeds resentment. That breeds gossiping. And some workplace things are are real. You know, you might hear the term microaggressions. You might hear the term, you know, I can't think of the other words right now, but just stay Webb you on this. Right? The resentment, the gossiping, and that energy attaches itself to you. Right? If I'm thinking about this manager, I don't like her Webb don't like him.

Alex Dumas [00:08:37]:

He's always doing this to me. Right? We come back into this victim place. This is where Mhmm. The the men I've and and clients I've worked with, that's where they struggle the most when they're putting their attention on what this person's doing and what they're up to and how they affected them. And, really, let's not victim blame. Right? It's not shame, but they take responsibility. What am I doing? Who am I being? Where am I coming from when I'm in this process or in this scenario?

Stuart Webb [00:09:07]:

Yeah. Yeah. I it's true, isn't it? We we so often, and I I see this with with with business leaders. They're they're focusing on, you know, what is it they're doing and and and they they choose to respond in a negative way to something. And you sort of say, well, the the the choice was entirely yours. You can choose 1 of 2 paths, and you always seem to choose the one that's somehow destructive to yourself. It is about taking that choice and making that that decision to say no. You know, like you said, your wife helped you to see if there's a if there's a path that will take take you better.

Stuart Webb [00:09:46]:

Take the path that will take you better. Even if somebody else is doing something, don't worry about it. You have to choose that path.

Alex Dumas [00:09:53]:

Yeah. It doesn't diminish it. It doesn't I I say it like this from the stage. Just because you can do anything doesn't mean you have to do everything.

Stuart Webb [00:10:01]:

Yes. Agreed. Absolutely.

Alex Dumas [00:10:03]:

Watching, someone listening, I want you to really, like, put a finger in your ear so it doesn't go out and doesn't go in and go out the other. Right? You can do anything. Yeah. You're you're more than capable. You're highly qualified. You have track record of success, but recognize there's over people in those space who can serve you, that can help you, that can actually get you there faster than you can do on your own and with more ease and with grace. And at the end of the day, who doesn't wanna have more fun in the success process? Right? This in our on our destination. It doesn't have to be this, oh, goodness.

Alex Dumas [00:10:39]:

I gotta do it all myself, and I'm self made. Nobody that I've ever met has been self made. And if they are, then they won't admit it because they're probably in the self destructive mode, and they can't see it.

Stuart Webb [00:10:52]:

Yeah. I love that, Alex. I really do love that. And I I suppose, my own journey, I I was a scientist long before I started out in business and I worked out very early on that I, you know, I was standing on the shoulders of giants because they'd come before me and worked out principles that I was just gonna extend. And, you know, so I've never ever understood this belief that somehow to be successful, you have to be self made because as far as I can see, we're all standing we're all standing on somebody else's, successes and somebody else's movement. And even if you only add a a small amount to that, as long as you add in the right way, that takes you forward. It takes everybody forward. You can lift you can lift everybody out.

Stuart Webb [00:11:34]:

I I do find it disappointing that people don't see that they can actually sort of, take that take the take take the positives and and move things forward. Let let's just turn to to to one of the sorry. Go ahead.

Alex Dumas [00:11:50]:

No. I was gonna stow this analogy out where someone told this to me long time ago about this principle of of being self made and doing it all yourself. And they asked me, it was, how how many people does it take to make a peanut butter jelly sandwich? And my initial response is like, oh, it's me. I just take the bread and I'm so, like, well, did you eat the bread? Did you package it? Did you do all these things? Did how'd you did you, were you the blacksmith that that forged the knife, the butter knife? Right? So there's a lot more out there. There's a lot more people who are contributing to your success than you believe.

Stuart Webb [00:12:24]:

Absolutely brilliant. Love the analogy. Love the analogy. Have you got a a valuable piece of advice? And I'm sort of gonna put, that your your website here. Have you got a valuable piece of advice or something that you'd leave with people that you can you can direct them to that that would help them in their journey to to take on some of the stuff you talking about?

Alex Dumas [00:12:47]:

Yeah. One of the things I would share with them is, free audio that I've recorded. It's called everybody wins 3 mistakes that leaders make, and it kinda touches on some of the things we spoke about earlier where the the pressure to perform, the the loneliness, the the hiding, the not asking for help, these are the things that get in the way of making innovative change of what Five looked to call generational impact and and uplifting communities. And this is a free audio gift. It's something I give away when I talk, so another way that I can be of use is come book me to speak for your team, for your organization. WiTalk is the win win communicator. It's a new way for leaders to listen, and it's it's coming from a place of not necessarily the tools of, like, you gotta actively listen and make sure you I really look at it from the space of, like, your state of being. Who are you when you're listening to people? What are the biases that you're holding? What are the what's the chatter inside of you that is blocking you from connecting with somebody? And and one of my signature phrases that I love to say is build a bigger bubble, and this kinda goes into the the premise of doing you could do anything, but not you don't have to do everything.

Alex Dumas [00:13:59]:

So building a bigger bubble meaning expanding, having a dream, having a vision so big that your team, your your your family, anybody around you can see themselves inside of it, and they actually start to champion you. They start to advocate. They start to be your evangelist of, man, this is where we're going. This is what we're doing. Who doesn't love following somebody or being on a journey with somebody who's got who's up to something big. Right? Who's up to a a huge a huge bigger larger than life vision, and it might seem impossible, but it's only impossible till we do it.

Stuart Webb [00:14:34]:

Brilliant. I've put the the link, to to that, which is on your website. I'll just read it out for those people who are unable at the moment to to to write anything down, but this will be in the show notes, people. It's a h t t p s colon forward slash for effect, www. Alexander Dumas coaching. That's that's obviously Alexander Dumas. He he can probably work at.

Alex Dumas [00:14:55]:

But but I do Alex on. Like, I'm I'm after yeah. After the Alexander Dumas.

Stuart Webb [00:15:00]:

Yeah. Alexand dumascoaching.comforward/f/ everybody hyphen wins. So that's alexdumascoaching.com/f/everybodywins. That'll be in the the the the show notes. Go and download that that, that that that audio. It's a free piece of content Alex gives away. So, Alex, thank you for that. Alex, it was there a particular book or a program that, that that that that that that you would leave as a a valuable, valuable thought, that sort of started you thinking about this? You've mentioned your wife.

Stuart Webb [00:15:35]:

There are other things that must have sort of begun to sort of make you the man you are today.

Alex Dumas [00:15:42]:

Yes. Yeah. Thank you. One speech in particular comes to my mind is from Les Brown. It's his famous, you gotta be hungry. Right? Yeah. Because I think he was he was in the Georgia Dome. It was some sometime probably in, like, in the late eighties, maybe early nineties, and it's a speech that Five first watched probably 2014, maybe 2015, and it to me, in my opinion, is the best speech I've ever seen, ever written, like, I've, to this day.

Alex Dumas [00:16:13]:

Right? I still come to it, and I still find inspiration from it. I still find nuggets from it. So that as part of an audio and seeing myself, right, seeing that model then and having this vision, this dream for myself of maybe I could do that. What would it be five if I were in front of a stadium full of people? You know, MetLife Stadium. I'm from New York originally, so I think about Giant Stadium. Like, wow. What would it be like if I could be there or Madison Square Garden? So that's one piece of content. The other book that I would say has greatly influenced my work as coaches called The Prosperous Coach that's was written by Steve Chandler and Rich Lipman, and it helped me it it connected with me in a space that it helped me slow down and look at authentic connections with people.

Alex Dumas [00:16:59]:

Because a lot of my early work as a coach was kind of spray and pray, kinda hunt and try to kill and get attention, look at me, and and be impressive. And what I recognize is the distinction of me being impressed Stuart doesn't allow this other person to be expressive. And when the when I work with clients, when I work with people, the thing they really want the most to know is just, do you understand me? Do you get me? Do you see me? Do you understand where I'm coming from? And if I can do that and create a safety for themselves to, you know, just kind of share a little bit more and shed the skin and get the pretenses on them, really get down to who they are and what they're they're looking to do. Miracles occur. That's the best I can call. So Prosper's Coach and that Les Brown talk, you gotta be hungry have been 2 massively influential pieces of content that have shaped who I am.

Stuart Webb [00:17:51]:

Alex, thank you so much. Alex, thank you for spending a few minutes with us. And I guess at the moment, you must be thinking there's a question that he hasn't asked and you really should five asked it by now. So what's the question that I should have asked you? And, obviously, if you were gonna ask a really intelligent question like that, you better give us a really good answer to it. So what is the question that you would don't think that I have asked properly?

Alex Dumas [00:18:15]:

Now this point isn't your fault specifically, but I think a good question that right. I'm gonna put the blame game on. But, all jokes aside, I think the I think the valuable question here would be, how do we help black leaders, black and brown leaders, ascend? Right? I think that's a great question that could be asked, and lucky for you, I have an answer for that. And that specifically is a 1 on 1 container that I I I've created called Ascension. So play on words. You can be like, oh my goodness, Alex. You're cheeky. Yeah.

Alex Dumas [00:18:51]:

Alright. I'm clever. I love to do fun things like that. But Ascension is this it's a 12 week intimate conversation with somebody and looking at helping them advance in their career and helping them to develop themselves as leaders, helping them to build the best practices of building relationships and and networking and building their confidence and looking at their life's work. I don't necessarily subscribe to this thought of work five balance because here I am right now, I'm speaking with you, Stuart. That means I'm ignoring my family. I'm ignoring my kids, Not because I'm bad or I'm a, you know, mean dad, but because my attention is focused on you and my work and also for you, whoever's watching, whoever's listening. My impact right now, I'm focused on you.

Alex Dumas [00:19:38]:

And then when I'm done, I'll be complete, and I'll move on to my family. But the things we've spoken up beef about before about how do we make impact, how do we embrace ourselves authentically, how do we create financial freedom, these are pieces of what Ascension looks like, and it's gonna be this elite edge for black men in business. This opportunity for them to just have that that thing, that one thing that separates them. I don't wanna say the competition, but separates them from holding themselves back and and it's a a beautiful offering that I five to invite anyone listening to to experience for themselves and create major major awareness and breakthroughs for their life and their business. So that's how we can help people ascend.

Stuart Webb [00:20:26]:

Alex, I love I love I love the fact that you've been cheeky about that, and thank you for having a clever answer to a to a question that I didn't didn't ask properly. So, Alex, I really wanna thank you for spending a few minutes with us. I know now you can go and take your focus off talking to silly people like me, and you can go and concentrate on something important like your family and your kids. And, I know you've got 2 2 kids, I think, haven't you? So you can get out there and you can you can go and enjoy your time with them rather than be, rather than be focusing on us. But thank you for spending a few minutes with us and telling us a bit about how you have, overcome those thought processes and how you're helping others to do exactly the same thing to to plow that fat path. Listen, people. I'm gonna wrap up with Alex now because he's got other things to do. If you would like to hear from, from me every week with a with an update on who's coming on to the show next week.

Stuart Webb [00:21:21]:

I send out one every week. And if you wanna do that, if you can go to the HTTP thing, link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk. That's link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk forward slash newsletter. You can come on and, spend a few minutes, just listening to really inspiring talking points from people as inspiring as Alex. And, Alex, I wanna just thank you, for coming on and spending a few minutes. Really appreciate the effort you've taken, and, I wish you I wish you get out and spend some time with your kids because, they're as important as anything else you you're doing at the moment.

Alex Dumas [00:22:02]:

No. Much appreciated. And I'll say this, there's nothing been silly about this conversation. I love the questions. I love your energy, and thank you for inviting me onto this program and for my work. If this is influential, this is supporting, you know, at least over person. Alright? That that sounds like a cliche, but, really, if it helps moves one person, then I've done my job. I've I've served in a way that I know how to do best, and I'm gonna spend some time with the family then get back to doing what I do best, making a difference, and contributing.

Stuart Webb [00:22:33]:

I'm with you on that, Alex. If we can help one person, that's Webb person that we've, we've pushed a little bit further. And who knows? They will take the they they will take us on further. So thank you very much for spending 8 minutes with us.

Alex Dumas [00:22:45]:

You're welcome. Thank you.

Who is Billy?

Billy Schwer is a renowned world champion boxer turned leadership coach. With his expertise in boxing, he helps individuals develop a winning mindset to succeed in their personal and professional lives. Despite facing his own health challenges, Billy remains dedicated to inspiring and motivating others through his speaking engagements and coaching services. His resilience and determination make him a powerful force in the world of leadership development.

Key Takeaways

00:00 World champion boxer teaches leadership through mindset.

05:28 Striving for natural wellness despite discomfort.

08:14 Important lesson: adapt energy and communication style.

11:55 Boxer breaks stereotypes, faces post-retirement challenges.

14:57 Early midlife crisis led to boxing retirement.

19:11 Love yourself, share the available life.

22:08 Focus on the future, let go of the past.

23:38 I want the world to hear about it.

Valuable Free Resource or Action

Download a copy of Billy’s book FREE at www.billyschwer.com/book or an audio version at www.billyschwer.com/free-audio

A video version of this podcast is also at

https://youtube.com/live/IJxKjJitHj0?feature=share

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Subscribe to our newsletter and get details of when we are doing these interviews live at https://TCA.fyi/newsletter

Find out more about being a guest at : link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/beaguest

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Here's how you can bring your business to THE next level:

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It's a detailed breakdown of how you can grow your business to 7-figures in a smart and sustainable way

————————————————————————————————————————————-

Transcript

Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

world champion boxer, warm up, business leaders, mindset, fear, competition, inspirational, motivational speaker, teamwork, individual, team, potential, self-improvement, frequency of vibration, mindset, brain health, Samaritan, mental boxing, mental health, future, identity crisis, depression, bankruptcy, Landmark Forum, team support, positivity, newsletter, insights, life lessons, business owners

SPEAKERS

Billy Schwer, Stuart Webb

Stuart Webb [00:00:19]:

Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science. Five questions over. I've got a copy. Billy's got one. Billy, this is gonna be a brilliant conversation. I'm really looking forward to this man. Billy Stuart, he is a world champion boxer. As you can tell, he's doing his he's doing his warm up now.

Stuart Webb [00:00:35]:

I'm gonna be

Stuart Webb [00:00:36]:

in trouble. Up. I'm

Stuart Webb [00:00:38]:

ready. I'm gonna be in trouble with this one. Billy, world champion, but he's turned what he knows about boxing into helping you become a better leader because he can help you change your mindset to the mindset he had to have as a world champion boxer. If you can imagine not having the fear of being boxed out of a ring by your business and taking on your competition and taking them on in a way that you will not only believe is possible, but this man can take on the world. Billy, it is my absolute pleasure to have you here on it's not rocket science, 5 questions over coffee. I'm really looking forward to this because you are such an inspirational motivational speaker. Thank you for spending a few minutes with us, and I know we've had to sort of put this one back a bit because you weren't well. So I hope you're feeling really good.

Billy Schwer [00:01:28]:

I'm 10 out of 10 today for you right now. I am a 10 out of 10. And it's it's not rocket science. It is science. The sweet science as Boxed is well known. The noble art and the sweet science. Yes. It is

Stuart Webb [00:01:43]:

Listen. I am gonna have so much I five so much trouble keeping this man inside of this box. Listen, Billy, tell us. What is it? You you know, who is it you're trying to help with this? Because you I mean, you know, you've you've gone from boxing. You you you you know, you're now a really motivational, inspirational speaker. Who is it you're trying to help, or what is it you're trying to teach them?

Billy Schwer [00:02:05]:

Basically, it's business leaders and teams. So what I'm all about, inspiring and empowering leaders, teams, individuals to be able to punch above their weight, win more often, and experience more success in all that they do. So that's the context of what I'm all about. And the work that I do is such that it it allows for something else to show up within them. So we're all individuals, but we're all in a team as well because we all know without teamwork, the dream don't work. But we are an individual, so we that's the I focus on the individual within the team and the team as a whole. If everyone's aligned and everyone's boxing clever, moving towards a desired outcome as a as a unit, results can get caused. And it's starting from here, and it's being fully responsible for that.

Billy Schwer [00:03:04]:

And that's what I do. I get people to really look at themselves, and let's let's have a little look Stuart. I mean, the common question I ask people, where are you on a scale of 0 to 10? The listeners out there, where are you today on a scale of 0 to 10? 0 being bang knocked out on the canvas, 10 feeling like the champion of the world. So you'll you'll have a number. And, Stuart, you'll have a number. Yeah. Webb a number. So what my intention is is to really elevate whatever that number is.

Billy Schwer [00:03:37]:

Because a lot of people that I work with, there may be a 4, 5, 6. So if you're walking around operating at 50, 60% of your potential, that's what I like to do. I like to unravel what's in the way such that people can have this energy, this frequency of vibration, and operate in all areas of their life from a different frequency because things are gonna occur different if you got your if you raise your game. So my it's looking at what's in the way of people experiencing a 10 out of 10, an 8, a 9, a 10 out of 10. And that's the kind of work that I do as an individual, but as teams as well.

Stuart Webb [00:04:18]:

So, Billy, let's just, let me just just just ask. And and it sort of combined with my second question, which is sort of what people done before to try and get them out of this tent. We all know that some days you feel like a 10. Some days you feel like a 0. So how do you get up every single day and make yourself 10 out of 10? Because you can't get into a boxing ring and feel like you're a 0 because you will immediately get knocked out, won't you?

Billy Schwer [00:04:42]:

So what so I had a 138 fights in total as an amateur and a professional. So I had 45 professional fights. Winning the British, the Commonwealth, and eventually the world championships are my 4th attempt. So there were occasions where I stepped up into the ring, and I wasn't a 10 out of 10. So I've got a knack. I've trained myself Webb required to be able to generate the energy to go and do what I need to do. So I've that I'm conditioned to do that, but sometimes I don't always feel that way. So sometimes in life, we have to kinda step up and raise up and kind of generate ourselves to go and do the task ahead of us.

Billy Schwer [00:05:28]:

But what we want to try and do is to feel naturally more near a 10 out and just more naturally. And I don't wake up every day at 10 out of 10. Webb, I can generate a so I so my day to day, I've I've I've I've meditated, I've hydrated, I've been for a run, I've done some work. That's before Five I'm engaged in my conversation with you. So I've I know I didn't really wanna go for a run this morning because it hurts. It's hard. What makes you feel me? And I'm running and I'm thinking, Webb, I really wanna be out here running. And it's five, sometimes Webb just gotta we gotta wake up to the fact Webb gotta do things we don't always wanna do.

Billy Schwer [00:06:12]:

And that's the being responsible. As a fighter, stepping up into the ring, without teamwork the dream don't work. Without the without the team behind me, there was no way I could go and get into the ring. But when the bell goes, the team, they all step backwards out of the out of the ring, and we step forward. So there is no place to hide. You can run, but you can't hide. So we have to wake up to the fact of this is my life. This is it.

Billy Schwer [00:06:39]:

This is my challenge. This is my battle, and I can't I five to be fully responsible for it. I can't I'm not a victim. Don't be a victim. You gotta wake up to the fact of you are it. You are the one that you've been waiting for. The cavalry is not coming to save you. So then it's five, we have to surround ourselves with a supportive network of teams, and we have to look at ourselves, our mindset, lots of people neglect.

Billy Schwer [00:07:10]:

And it's the taking care of the mindset, our own brain health, what we feed ourselves, who we talk to, what we read, what we listen to, who are we, what we what we doing, what we up to. And that's kind of what I have to connect with. Yeah. Now I volunteer Yeah. I volunteer as a Samaritan. I know you know the Samaritan, Stuart.

Stuart Webb [00:07:31]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Billy Schwer [00:07:32]:

So Billy the boxer I have to leave Billy the boxer at the door. When I go and do a shift for the Samaritans, I have to tune in to a different Billy because Billy the boxer is is of no use to the callers. So it's being able to adapt and be aware of different parts of ourselves to tap into when required. And a lot of the time, I do rest. I recuperate. I'll go and have a lie down. I so, so important. Nourishment, food is so important for us to then be able to turn on when required because we can't be on all the time because that's stressful.

Stuart Webb [00:08:14]:

Billy, these are really important lessons because what you're talking about is how you bring that sort of energy, that sort of natural way of thinking to different situations in business. And and and business leaders are very poor at doing that, listening, if you like, to the environment, you know, like you were talking about the I mean, the Samaritan situation and I'm in the sales situation. They bring the same person. And what you've just really highlighted is important to bringing different bits of your energy, different bits of your personality, and making it adapt. I mean and I often say that the problem that we have is that we believe communication is about what we do, but it's not. Communication is what what the listener does, about what the person receiving the communication does. And if we end up speaking to them in the wrong tone, we end up speaking to them in the wrong way, it's a bit like one of your punches. One of your punches had to land in the right way, didn't it, in order to have any effect.

Stuart Webb [00:09:13]:

Pointless punching somebody in the wrong way because it doesn't actually do what it needs to do. It's just a waste of your energy. You five to tune it to exactly what you needed to do at the time. And you're right. Sorry to bring the boxing back in, but I thought it was important.

Billy Schwer [00:09:28]:

Stuart, you're so right. And it's the communication because we're we're communicating all the five, and it's not necessary language. It's body language. It's tone. It's how we're how we're presenting ourselves and how we're feeling. So the feeling from within so if your frequency is raised, you're gonna be just different. So if you're walking into sales environments, business meetings, an 8, 9, elevate itself, it's gonna be different. The communications, you're gonna be in tune.

Billy Schwer [00:09:59]:

And I meditate because what that allows to be it's like I have a heightened state. When I meditate and I do breath work, I energize my brain. And, honestly, it's like an intellectual upgrade that I have. I could experience it. My language is different. My articulation is different. It just raises myself up, and that's available for us all. If and I've been I've been playing about all of this stuff for over 20 years now, tweaking it, looking at it, what works, what doesn't work, wherever I come from.

Billy Schwer [00:10:34]:

And, obviously, I've got all that boxing experience, but there's all the life outside of boxing experience that I tap into as well. And it's relatable. Boxing's a great metaphor for business. It's not rocket science, but it's some kind of science, and it's it all kinda works, and it all kinda blends together, and it's all relatable.

Stuart Webb [00:10:54]:

Billy, this is just brilliant stuff. So I'm gonna move us on to threat question 3. Now I know that you've got a book, I can see it over there behind your shoulder. I know you give that book away free. Yeah. So tell me, how can somebody get hold of that book to understand what they're talk what

Billy Schwer [00:11:13]:

you're talking about now and start to apply it to their life? Yeah. So we're gonna have a link so you guys can go and you can have the book. You can download the book, or you can download the audio of the book if you prefer listening. I I listen to lots of book. So I'm in the process of writing another book because Man Up Man Up was created from my own experience of being a man down. So I don't wanna offend anyone with the name because Man Up can be misconstrued. It's words on a on a page which can trigger people. So I don't wanna offend anyone with man up because it's not what you think it is.

Billy Schwer [00:11:55]:

And I may be not who you think I am. So being a boxer, you may have a preconceived opinion of me, bashing people up, having all those fights, broken noses, and having that the ability to go into the ring prepared to die, kill or be killed. Now that would kind of paint a kind of a picture, but I'm hoping that just by listening to this conversation that you get to sell maybe there's there's more to a boxer. There's more to Billy than kind of meets the eye of what a professional boxer is. And so man, I because on my retirement from the professional boxing ring, I found that transition, Stuart, to be very difficult. I went through depression. I went through an identity crisis. I went had a mental breakdown.

Billy Schwer [00:12:43]:

I wrecked my marriage. I went through a divorce. I had my home repossessed. I went bankrupt. I lost everything. I crashed and burned. I I was suicidal. Hence, why I volunteer for the Samaritans because I know what it feels like to be in a crisis because I was there not so long ago.

Billy Schwer [00:13:05]:

And I've done the work. I've unraveled Billy the Over to be free from all the constraints that life was opposing on me, my self inflicted challenges. And that's when I put those words together, mental boxing because I was mentally having a mental boxing match with myself. And then the world that I've been doing over the last 20 years is all about transforming ourselves such that we can feel different. Because when I was in the depths of despair, I all I kept saying to myself, Stuart, was, I just wanna feel good. I just I just wanna feel good. I wanna feel good because I've I was knocked out. I was a 0 ad.

Stuart Webb [00:13:47]:

Yeah. Yeah. That's that's and and look, and this is this is such an inspirational Stuart, and I've I've got the the the the link on this. And I'm gonna go back to this. This will be in the transcript and the show notes for this. But if you need to get hold of this book, it's Billy Schwarr, that's www.billlyshwer.com slash book. Or if you want the audio book, it's the same thing, b I, double l, y s c h w e r dot com /freehyphenaudio. Both of those links will be on the the YouTube, the LinkedIn, and everything else.

Stuart Webb [00:14:25]:

But, Billy, that that's a really it's a really inspirational Stuart. And I think it does demonstrate how your your your thought process produces the results, doesn't it? It is all about how you approach a situation. And and and a lot of business people today, and I I I speak to a lot of business owners who are wanting to sell their business. And it leads them into depression because it's a loss of their identity.

Billy Schwer [00:14:52]:

Yeah.

Stuart Webb [00:14:53]:

And and you went through it. You know how to get through that.

Billy Schwer [00:14:57]:

I I went through a a midlife crisis very early. As those as the guys that you mentioned about, they sell their business and we've become so attached to our past, and then we identify with that. And then once that's gone, as I went through, I'm no longer Billy the over. And it's when I was in the back of the ambulance on the way to hospital for the second five, that was that was when I realized that my life as I know it is over. And that was the moment that I made the toughest decision I've ever made to retire from boxing. Because I was in the back of the ambulance, and I was frightened because boxing professional boxing can be dangerous. I had a friend of mine killed in the ring. I know guys that have been permanently brain damaged.

Billy Schwer [00:15:43]:

And I'm in the back of the ambulance, and I'm uncertain of my future health. So it's that relationship with that part of ourselves and letting go of it I found so difficult. And you hear about that, like, you you you mentioned about business owners selling, exiting their business, and then they go through a similar thing. Lots of athletes, we all go with people at the services. They go through a similar thing, and it's supporting ourselves post whatever of the life that we've chosen. And then the the struggle for me was the reinvention, the recreation of myself. Because who am I? I was Billy the boxer. Now here I am.

Billy Schwer [00:16:24]:

I'm just Billy. Who's Billy? I don't know who Billy is. And that was the wake up. So I had to get conscious. I was unconscious. But then what happened with me was I I become a victim of my situation, of my circumstances, my divorce, my bankruptcy. I become a victim of it, which had me feel depressed, broke me. It broke me because I didn't have a future to live into.

Billy Schwer [00:16:52]:

There was boxing was no longer a future for me, and I didn't know what to do with myself. And that was the challenge. And I pursued lots of different things trying to find my thing and myself, and that was the challenge.

Stuart Webb [00:17:06]:

Billy, I'm really glad you found yourself. And, you know, it there must have been, you know, you've talked a bit about sort of the work you do with Samaritan. There must if was there a particular course or something which actually brought you from Billy the over to the person that we see in front of us today? What was the thing that moved you into that?

Billy Schwer [00:17:24]:

I've done a lot of work over the last 20 years. I've worked with masters in various different fields. And but, originally, what what really started this journey off was I did a program called the Landmark Forum. Now I did the Landmark Forum, I'll never forget it, of August 2003. I'm in a room. There's about a 150 people for 3 days. It was the first time Five experienced this kind of training. Now, you gotta remember, I've been a world champion.

Billy Schwer [00:17:55]:

I've had sports psychology. I've I've done all of that. I'm sitting in a room now, and I'm going through a tough five. And the conversation was over a weekend about what it is to be a human being. It's the ontology, ontological, the study of the art and science of being. So I which and I got to see who I was being in life. And let me tell you, Stuart, it wasn't pretty. Mhmm.

Billy Schwer [00:18:18]:

It wasn't pretty. What the traits that had me become a world champion had me winning the boxing ring. I was aggressive. I was domineering. I was selfish. I was inconsiderate. I was always right. Rah.

Billy Schwer [00:18:30]:

Rah. Those traits work perfectly well in the boxing arena, but it didn't work for me in my life.

Stuart Webb [00:18:38]:

Mhmm. Yeah.

Billy Schwer [00:18:39]:

Ask my ex wife. She'll tell you. It it didn't be anything else. I was that identity. But the Landmark forum, what it allowed for me was it started to just the future I didn't have a future. I started to the future started to occur different, and things started to just change for me. And the way that I was perceiving life and the future shifted and changed, and then things changed. And that's the journey that I've been on for the last over it's over 20 years I've been on that on that journey.

Billy Schwer [00:19:11]:

And what I've got for myself or what I've learned, I want other people to experience what I'm experiencing because it's available for each and every one of us. You don't have to it's it's it's available. If you're willing and you want to wake up and do the work, and it ain't easy because I didn't used to five myself. I'd never used to I didn't like myself because I was that those certain traits that I had, they weren't five, and they Webb they didn't work for me. And it was like so now I can I can honestly say that I love myself? I do love myself, and I love I love the life that I'm creating, the future that I'm living into, and that that's that's that's what I've got. And I've created it, and I am it, and it's available.

Stuart Webb [00:19:57]:

That is that that's so inspiring. And and, you know, I I so hope that that we can get this message to as many people as they possibly can because this is such a brilliant message. And I suppose it leads me to my last questions, and I'm gonna let you get on because you've got a life to lead. You've got other people to influence. And I wanna help you do it, but there must be one question that I haven't asked you that you want me to ask. And and so, therefore, what's that question I should five asked you? And, obviously, you've got to answer it because I don't know the question yet.

Billy Schwer [00:20:30]:

And I think we're kinda touching it, but if I may reiterate because

Stuart Webb [00:20:35]:

it's

Billy Schwer [00:20:36]:

so, so powerful is the question that you wanna ask me that I wish you would five asked me is is, Billy, how do you get to experience life as a tenant then?

Stuart Webb [00:20:46]:

That's a good question.

Billy Schwer [00:20:47]:

Yeah. So then so so that is we kind of touched on it in the last conversation, and it's it's I'm really clear this is so, so powerful. It's about focusing on the future, not the past. Because what I got stuck in was looking into the past. So the future will dictate for you how you feel in the present moment. Now when I retired boxing, the future that I was living into was dark. It was chaotic. It was painful.

Billy Schwer [00:21:18]:

So that kind of future, you can see that that would have an impact on how I feel. It kinda makes sense, doesn't it? To live it if somebody was living into chaotic, dark, painful futures, that's gonna have them feel a certain way. So the way forward is is to focus on the future, but really be responsible for designing, creating, causing, and generating that future. The dreams that we want, the futures that we wanna create, they sometimes feel a long way away, which I know what that's like. It took me 4 attempts to win the world title. Webb when I was getting bashed up in the ring, in the gym, time after time losing, I was trying my hardest, but I I was getting knocked back. And we all experience five. We get knocked back.

Billy Schwer [00:22:08]:

We don't always win, but we wanna win more often. It takes you gotta keep coming back, and it's and it's the focus in on that future, which is so, so powerful because we have to let the past go. Take the questions, learn the lessons, bring them into the future with you, but don't bring that past that you don't like or that you don't like about yourself. Don't bring that into the future because that's what we keep bumping into. We have to draw a line in the sand, create, design the dream future, which sounds a bit woo woo, but we are we are it. And we are the Webb are we are the one that we've been waiting for. So it's surrounding yourself with people who can support that for you. With that teamwork, the dream don't work, and that's so crucial.

Billy Schwer [00:22:59]:

Get the right team around you. And that's what's you experience life in some other way that you've got right now.

Stuart Webb [00:23:07]:

Billy, that is I mean, it's not only a lesson for life. It is a less, I mean, you know, Webb we've talked about how you can help business owners. Getting the team around you that can actually help you is the most crucial thing. You can't do everything on your own. You need the team, but you need to approach it with that positivity that you've just given up. You need to approach it by thinking about the right Billy, the right person to get in there. Billy, I can't I can't even begin to tell you how grateful I am for the fact you've spent a few minutes with me. This has been a brilliant conversation.

Stuart Webb [00:23:38]:

I've really enjoyed it, and I just want the whole world to hear about it. So I'm gonna help this get out to the entire world. And listen, if anybody's listening that wants to be able to hear this sort of thing, we do these on a Tuesday. If you know people that wanna wanna hear about this, please get on to my newsletter list so that you can get to hear about brilliant people like Billy who come on and give up their time to talk about this sort of thing. To get onto the news, you go to this, which is link. Thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. That's link dot the complete approach.co.ukforward/newsletter. Get onto the newsletter list and and come on and and listen to the brilliance of people like Billy.

Stuart Webb [00:24:23]:

Billy, I can't thank you enough for just spending a few minutes with us. I know you're a really busy guy, and you've got so much experience that that, you know, coming on and doing this has been a has been 20 minutes out of your time that you could probably have used really well. But thank you for coming and spending this few minutes and giving up these these brilliant insights. And and listen, go on go on. Be another 10 today because you're the most inspiring guy I know.

Billy Schwer [00:24:51]:

Stuart, it's been an absolute pleasure to spend some time with you. It's always a pleasure to have a conversation with you. So thank you.

Stuart Webb [00:24:59]:

No problem. Thank you very much.

Billy Schwer [00:25:02]:

And thank you. Can I just

Stuart Webb [00:25:04]:

Go? I'm sorry. I nearly cut you off.

Billy Schwer [00:25:07]:

Yeah. You cut me off. I wanna say, Stuart, I want to the listeners out there, go and subscribe because Stuart is up to something. And you're you're sharing with us, you're bringing to us all these extraordinary people who've got amazing stories. So, Stuart, I wanna acknowledge you for the contribution that you are to us all. So thank you. Thank you.

Stuart Webb [00:25:33]:

Thank you, sir.

Who is Ekua?

Ekua Cant is a passionate entrepreneur who loves helping others in their business journey through the use of LinkedIn. She enjoys working with entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, and freelancers, whether they are just starting out or looking to scale their business and who might use LinkedIn better. Ekua is dedicated to guiding people through the challenges and excitement of building their business, and she is committed to helping established business owners stay on top of their game and grow their brand with LinkedIn. With her expertise and enthusiasm, Ekua is a valuable resource for anyone looking to succeed in the world of entrepreneurship.

Key Takeaways

00:00 Passionate about helping entrepreneurs and solopreneurs.

05:32 Custom links on LinkedIn help profile visibility.

09:07 Featured section should include linked story, testimonial, offer.

11:35 LinkedIn loves selfies and face photos. Celebrations too.

13:45 Confidence and clarity in offering services.

16:59 Caution against misrepresenting oneself when using AI.

21:10 Expressing gratitude for valuable insights and advice.

Valuable Free Resource or Action

Download a valuable resource at https://www.linkedin.com/posts/make-your-profile-stand-out_5-words-thatll-help-you-win-at-linkedin-activity-7193844607917449217-W4vH/?lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_event%3B5cOMd%2BKZSMWST1BuH8rk4w%3D%3D

A video version of this podcast is also at

https://youtube.com/live/IJxKjJitHj0?feature=share

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Subscribe to our newsletter and get details of when we are doing these interviews live at https://TCA.fyi/newsletter

Find out more about being a guest at : link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/beaguest

Subscribe to the podcast at https://link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/podcast

Help us get this podcast in front of as many people as possible. Leave a nice five-star review at apple podcasts : https://link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/apple-podcasts and on YouTube : https://link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk/Itsnotrocketscienceatyt!

Here's how you can bring your business to THE next level:

If you are a business owner currently turning over £/$10K - £/$50K per month and want to grow to £/$100K - £/$500k per month download my free resource on everything you need to grow your business on a single page :

It's a detailed breakdown of how you can grow your business to 7-figures in a smart and sustainable way

————————————————————————————————————————————-

Transcript

Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

LinkedIn, social media, profile optimization, entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, freelancers, business, LinkedIn profile, mistakes, banner, open to work, custom link, headline, value, sales, AI, consistency, followers, engagement, newsletter, community building, branding, content, lead generation, networking, coaching, mentorship, strategy, optimization, customer journey, digital presence

SPEAKERS

Ekua Cant, Stuart Webb

Stuart Webb [00:00:21]:

Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 Questions Over Coffee. I'm absolutely delighted today to be joined by Jackie Norton. Now they always say, if you want to improve, if you want to get better in your business, you should employ people who are better than you, and that's how I feel about my guest today. I am really delighted to be having a conversation with Jackie who has a far more impressive portfolio of of businesses and interests than I have met, and so I'm really, really delighted, Jacqui, you found time in your diary to come and join us for a few minutes. Jacqui is what they call the unretirement speaker. She revealed facts and the reality about retirement in the 2020s for the boomers and how to get to your 100 year lifespan. She mentors and supports entrepreneurs who need to pivot and grow, and if she hasn't got enough going on, she's also the MD of a business whose mission is to change the narrative around the 50 plus woman, to become the invisible increasingly disappear at that age, and she's there to change that. And and that therefore means that what is throughout all of her career, what throughout all of her passion is that of change, changing individuals, changing businesses.

Stuart Webb [00:01:36]:

The need for change, managing change, and working out what is required is absolutely one of the critical bits of business that we need in the world today. So, Jackie, delighted you've spent time to come and spend a few minutes with us. Thank you so much for for being on It's Not Rocket Science, 5 Questions, Over Coffee.

Jackie Naghten [00:01:52]:

Well, thank you very much, Stuart. I hope it isn't rocket science. I hope it's not complicated as that.

Stuart Webb [00:01:59]:

No. Nothing is complicated than that. Look, Jacqui, let's start. You talk about being an unretirement speaker. You talk about, leading them. Tell us, what is it? Who who is it that you're trying to help? I guess it's obvious, but what who is it you're trying to help to understand the these changes that you're bringing to the world?

Jackie Naghten [00:02:15]:

Well, I think like most things in life, when you have any, you know, successful people, across all sorts of businesses and disciplines, and they tell their life story. Usually things happen because of what's happened in their lives, isn't it? You know, so you tend to look at yourself and think, well, this has happened to me. You know, I'm sure it must be happening to other people. So in the case of unretirement, I'm in my sixties now. And as I've approached that time and it sort of comes upon you, you know, you're bumbling along in your forties and next thing great. So you're gonna retire now? And I'm like, no. I don't want to retire. You know, what am I gonna do? And so I started to investigate this whole idea about not retiring because when I really thought about it for myself, I thought, you know, because retirement sounds like giving up, finishing, stopping.

Jackie Naghten [00:03:05]:

It feels like the end of life and I didn't feel like that at all. And I think particularly for women Webb we've had, a lot of time caring responsibilities, you know, juggling careers, suddenly as you get to your sixties, you actually have the time that you've always wanted to do things. So I started to investigate this whole issue of unretirement, which I I came up with. And then I found that actually exists out there and people are talking about on retirement, which is really, it's actually been coined by people who are actually returning to the workforce. So they've retired and then they've spent a couple of years in retirement, had a couple of cruises, done an extension, and then they're bored and they've come back. Because the truth of the matter is that for we boomers, and let's be honest, the boomers, we've been a quite a pioneering generation. We are now this is a final frontier for us, pioneering this move into older age. And, typically, as boomers, we're knowing it like it.

Jackie Naghten [00:04:03]:

So we question it. We're having a different, approach to it. We five a different lived experience, in our lives. I mean, certainly from the female point of view, a lot of us have had careers and brought up families, which, you know, wasn't wasn't didn't happen, you know, 50, 100 years ago. So we're a pioneering generation, and it's all changing. And we can see the rock stars are still rocking. The screenwriters are still writing, the actors are still acting well into their eighties nineties. So it's all changing.

Jackie Naghten [00:04:29]:

And so it's against that backdrop that I speak about on retirement.

Stuart Webb [00:04:33]:

And I think that's a really interesting point, Jacqui, because one of the things you just sort of talked about there is it's the experience that you bring. The the the the the fact of matter is that the the people who five retire often know better than anybody coming through all those things that do work and don't work and how to make that change the most practical, the most effective, as they can be. And and it's often that experience that we lose when people just sort of go Webb go off and do the cruises and spend time at home.

Jackie Naghten [00:05:03]:

Some people are very happily retired. Since you were 16. You can't physically do the job, you know, be a roofer anymore or whatever. And some and some many people are very happy to retire and focus on family and different things. But there's an awful lot of us who don't want to do that, and there's an awful lot of people who can't do that because the retirement, the state pension age is going up. And let's be honest, not many of us can live on that state pension. It's sort of more of a, you know, it's about a £1,000 a month. If you've got 25 years to live in retirement, a £1,000 a month isn't going to give you a very, exciting stimulating life.

Jackie Naghten [00:05:48]:

So, you know, that's the facts of the matter. So we've seen it for some time that our pensioners are going back into the workforce to supplement their income. But places like B&Q, you know, have taken on older people with all their experience, etcetera. But it's actually a much bigger issue now, and we're going to have by, I think, Webb about 50, 50% of the workforce is going to be over 50. Mhmm. And so there's a couple of things going on. First of all, there's a thing for people personally, what they want to do in it the birth rate's dropping, and they're suddenly waking up to the fact they might need older people. But meanwhile, what we know is 50 plus people are finding it incredibly difficult to get back into the workforce because there is a generational, sexist, a generational ageism going on, which is the last frontier of sort of, equality in the workplace, which is something that we at noon, with my other hat on, are working on.

Jackie Naghten [00:06:44]:

So, you know, my unretirement interest and speaking about unretirement kind of has a very nice crossover with the the work I do at noon, which is all about the 50 plus women who are very keen to get back to work and think about what they're going to do as they pivot in the midlife.

Stuart Webb [00:07:00]:

And I'm so glad you brought noon in because I was about to ask, of course, what is what is noon? And so therefore, let's let's move on to sort of what it is therefore then that you've seen people who are trying to sort of cope with this on retirement. You've mentioned a couple of times people who've retired and it's not for them, so they've gone back to work. What is it that you you are trying to do to help them with that with that transition? How do you how do you help people to understand whether or not retirement is right for them?

Jackie Naghten [00:07:26]:

Well, I think, I think what we have to think about is very simple. It's what gets you out of bed in the middle? What gets you out of bed in the morning? And what doesn't get me out of bed in the morning is just thinking, oh, I'm going to see some friends for lunch and I'll maybe go to the gym later. I mean, I'm not saying that's not nice to do, but I I it's lacking a sort of purpose, a sort of satisfaction. That's what I found, you know, because I I did have a period of time when I had cancer and that enforced me to have a a year off. And I and and and while you're not very Webb, obviously, I was so frustrated because I couldn't do anything. You know, I hadn't got any point, you know, I couldn't work and all these things. And so I'm just somebody, and there's lots of us around who just like like working. I mean, lots of people work in volunteer positions because they just want to have a purpose.

Jackie Naghten [00:08:11]:

And what we know, I think it's Sigmund Freud who said, you know, there's 2 main things in life out of all of this is love and work, which is really purpose and human connection. And that, you know, that's what working can give you and that's what we as humans, you know, on the whole keeps us going. So, you know, when I say work, it doesn't necessarily have to be financially rewarding work. It could be all sorts of things, but it's finding purpose. And I think that's where people quite often need help. Because as we all know, when we try and write about ourself market, it's very difficult doing that yourself. It's much more helpful if you do it with somebody else who can interpret how you are. And that's where coaching or mentoring comes in because, I can work with people, and they they may be let's say they've been an accountant for 20, 30 years.

Jackie Naghten [00:09:00]:

All they can think about is, like, well, I'm very good with numbers. I can do accountancy, but I don't want to do it anymore. And it's very difficult for them to think, what are the other possibilities. So what I'm very good at is thinking creatively with people about the other skills and strengths that they might have that could take them in a different direction.

Stuart Webb [00:09:17]:

Takes us in so many directions actually. So I think you're absolutely right. The the meaningful connections is hugely important. I think biologists are now beginning to discuss or, you know, you you hear in the media that, loneliness can be the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. And Having those meaningful connections can extend your lifespan.

Jackie Naghten [00:09:35]:

I mean, I have to say, I have looked into an article about that. It's a slightly typically, as as you can imagine, typically, a sort of convoluted piece of data when you, you know, get underneath it because it it's not that simple, but loneliness is is an epidemic, you know. And as we live longer I mean, I'm widowed myself. As we live longer, divorce a lot of people are getting divorced in their fifties and sixties because they're thinking, if they're living till they're five and they have a non satisfactory relationship, they're actually getting divorced in their sixties, which is another reason why people often need to work because the financial pots got smaller, etcetera, etcetera. And also for women who were divorced and on their own, typically men tend to find another partner, women perhaps not. They want to go to work or they might not have worked for 10, 15 years. And so, you know, and they have no idea. You know, jobs have changed.

Jackie Naghten [00:10:26]:

The workplace has changed tremendously. And and so it's a little bit scary for, people when they're older to go back into, but they're quite keen to have that connection and to have some purpose.

Stuart Webb [00:10:38]:

So so, Jackie, if we if we if we now look at what how people can get in contact with you, I think I think you've given us your LinkedIn, your LinkedIn, and and the the Noon, which is the organization. Are there are there things that they'll find there that could be helping them to understand this transition that you're talking to people about?

Jackie Naghten [00:11:05]:

Well, certainly at noon, we have a lot of resources on there. We cover divorce, bereavement, cancer, job searching, all of those sorts of things. And there's lots of uplifting stories about, you know, all this because what we learn from in life is stories and it's always interesting to hear somebody else's Stuart. Yeah. And particularly if you're going through a tough time in your life, so for myself, I've got a you know, my story was my husband was diagnosed with a very with a terminal illness when I was 42. And I had to pivot. I had to change everything in my life. My life literally went up in the air, and I had to reinvent myself.

Jackie Naghten [00:11:40]:

I had to give up my corporate job. I went out into the world and became a consultant just based on networking really, you know, without any plan or thought. And so I've learned to market myself. I learned that I had skills I didn't realize I had, and this is I think the point of coaching, etcetera, you know, where you can you've actually got skills you don't realize you have because you think all you can do is add up numbers if, you know, do a balance sheet in accountancy. But, actually, you've got loads of other skills as well. And, actually, these are leading, problem solving, these sorts of skills, which you can apply to all sorts of things. So, you know, if you go to Noon you can find out about the Midlife Women. If you just come to my LinkedIn and connect with me then, I'm more than happy to, you know, I get all sorts of people who I meet, day to day and for various speaking engagements approaching me saying, can you help with this? Can you help with that? Because I've also worked with a lot of entrepreneurs and it's, you know, whether it's a business or a person, quite often a business falters and stutters and it might need to be reinvented or might need to take a different turn.

Jackie Naghten [00:12:49]:

And again, when you're the founder and the owner, it's quite difficult working that out. You need someone from outside to help you work that through.

Stuart Webb [00:12:57]:

Yes. Jackie, is is there a is there a a book or or course that, that really sort of helped you to understand how the unretirement world is beginning to become the new the new retire the the new work?

Jackie Naghten [00:13:13]:

Well, there's a there's a couple of things. I mean, we are, we are shortly going to be running courses at noon, about this. We're working on those at the Moment. I've got a book here which I came across or designing and I came across this about 10 years ago. I mean, that's an old version there. And it was written by 2 guys in, I think it's Stanford University in America, Bill Burnett and Dave Evans. And it absolutely fascinated me because I'm a brand person. And so because my background is retail and consumer brands.

Jackie Naghten [00:13:47]:

And, when you when you talk about brands, you're talking about brands have a sort of personality and they have values, etcetera. And what this book did, it actually looked to people as if they were brands. And so it really resonated with me. Because, actually, these days, people, you know, there's lots of chat about, you know, people talk about their personal brand. And your personal brand is just how you come how you present to the world and what your values are and what you can, you know, what you can how you can help people with. And so I would say designing your life, was all about looking at people that felt they were a square peg in a round hole, and how they could they thought just because they were interested, for example, one of the founders, the writers here. I mean, he was always as a little boy interested in marine biology. He became a marine biologist.

Jackie Naghten [00:14:37]:

So when he was about 35, he suddenly thought, I'm just not really that in this. I don't know why he's actually interested in something completely, something completely different. And quite honest, I mean, I when I was at school, I was good at languages. They said I should work in the foreign office. I would have absolutely useless as a civil servant because those are the sort of boxes, you know, we get put in boxes. And I still feel over today, the recruitment industry puts us in boxes whereas actually people have often have lots of other sides to them. So I would very much recommend that. And I would also recommend just, you know, going, if you're interested to pursue, reviewing your your your opportunities in life is to find a coach or a mentor.

Jackie Naghten [00:15:17]:

There's lots of, you know, TED Talks, for example, are an absolutely fantastic resource, which is all about telling stories about how people have embraced change and changed things. And they're very inspirational. You know? So, yeah, that would be what I would say, you know, go out. Main thing is go out into the world and connect with people. You know, I think you learn a lot by chatting to other people.

Stuart Webb [00:15:39]:

I I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't agree with more. Look, Jackie, I kept you talking for about the last 15, 20 minutes, asking you all sorts of silly questions but there must be one question that you're thinking, well I wish you would get on to this subject. So this is my opportunity to get you to say what is the question that you would like me to have asked. Well, obviously, then when I've, got you to ask the question, you better answer it. So what's that question you would like me to have asked?

Jackie Naghten [00:16:09]:

I suppose, the question I would like you to have asked, or that I think is a good question to ask anybody, as Webb as what has been the biggest, what has made the biggest impact in your life, you know, to bring you to where you are today to to today?

Stuart Webb [00:16:25]:

That's a very good question. So so what has been that biggest impact?

Jackie Naghten [00:16:30]:

Well, I think the biggest impact is really goes back to that story I just told of when my husband was diagnosed with a with a with a illness, which is, that you never know what's around the corner. Mhmm. So, you know, I always say my big piece of advice to my well, to my kids and to anybody who gets in a bit of a twiddle and a twaddle with things is to say, have a plan, the plan can change. You know, because people get But what's a common thread through all of that? It's about change and pivoting. But what's a common thread through all of that? It's about change and pivoting. You know, either pivoting, responding to outside outside influences because something, you know, you've got divorced, you you've got cancer, whatever happened, you know, you've got a sick child, and you have to change and rethink what you're doing, or because you want to. You want something different. You want to be reenergized and do something different.

Jackie Naghten [00:17:26]:

So I think the most important thing is to realize that you, you know, you you can't that that life won't be as you plan. Have a plan, the plan can change and go out and connect, you know, people are the biggest resource that's free out there that you can connect with and just, you know, you might I mean, I'm an you know, we're probably Stuart Natural Connectors. We're doing this sort of stuff, you know, we are sort of probably I'm certainly myself an extrovert. It's not easy for everybody. Not everybody's like that, but certainly if you're not somebody and and a lot of people think, oh, networking, you know, oh, that's a load of old you know? But actually, whether you wanna call it connecting or meet networking, connecting, meeting people, for me your fellow humans are your biggest resort to make change. And, you know, you you you you can't do any any and it's free, you know, to a certain extent. You know, it might cost you a cup of coffee or some of your five. But I've never had a wasted meeting with anybody in my five.

Jackie Naghten [00:18:23]:

And you always learn something. So, you know, that's what I would really encourage people to do. I don't think people realize how, how much that can impact your life.

Stuart Webb [00:18:31]:

I think it was a brilliant thing to say and and certainly something that I'm passing on to a number of the I do some work with some students and I do with them, and I'd give them something very similar, which is, you know, if someone if someone suggests a meeting, take the meeting, you don't know what's gonna happen. You might look at it and think, well, that would be a waste of my time, but you have no idea where it's going, who they might meet,

Jackie Naghten [00:18:54]:

who they might introduce. You never know. Always learn something, and I've learned, you know, probably when I was younger, I was a bit more judgmental, you know, and I've really, really learned. And that's the one thing about older age, you get a bit more wisdom and, you have hindsight. And I would say, I don't think I've ever had a wasted meeting. Because even if you don't get the outcome from the meeting that you wanted, you people. And it's a 6 degrees of separation. You know, if all somebody you've got in common somewhere, I find it quite amazing.

Jackie Naghten [00:19:28]:

And having been on this planet now for such a long time, and recently gone back out into the world, the world of entrepreneurs and founders, I've just been talking to somebody who has a similar background to me in corp you know, I've done corporate finance and productivity. And of course, we have you know, there's all these people we have in common. It just never ceases to fascinate me. And I think your point you make about your students, obviously, the younger generation growing up in a different digital five. And I just worry for that generation sometimes. Do they realize because they do everything on technology, maybe even on Zoom, I still would rather I mean, this is lovely to do this, but it's it's wonderful to meet people in person. It is a different experience. And I think it's really important that young people understand the power of connection, not just on a WhatsApp and through, you know, all this.

Jackie Naghten [00:20:13]:

You know, my my my daughters won't even take phone calls. They don't like talking on the phone. You know, it's gotta be all this. So, you know, I I do worry for the younger generation. I would think it's really important that we make sure that they do understand the power of connection.

Stuart Webb [00:20:25]:

I wonder if we could have another 2 and a half hours on that subject. So I better close this down before we do because I know that's something that I worry a lot about working

Jackie Naghten [00:20:34]:

with you. I think all of us all of us boomers, I mean, if my daughters call me that's so boomer, you know, because I've got a I've got a desk covered in paper because I write notes with a pen, and they get all of that. Such a and then she took a picture of it and said, that's such a boomer desk because I've got paper and pens on it, you know, and they don't have anything. So I think our husbands are very worried about the the young you know, they're they're they're all doing fantastically well, but there were just certain aspects that you do worry. You know?

Stuart Webb [00:21:02]:

I am I am very concerned at the moment about a number of people I meet that don't do the don't when I say to them, have you chatted to them about that? They go, yes. Yes. And I go, well, what did they say? And they said, well, Webb didn't say anything because we did it over text. And my immediate response is never ever managed to resolve any dispute

Jackie Naghten [00:21:18]:

No.

Stuart Webb [00:21:19]:

Resolution, any negotiation over went well when you were doing emails and texts. They always needed something to

Jackie Naghten [00:21:25]:

put the coffee in the wrong place. It's completely a different statement. You know? I mean, how I mean, I have this with my best friend all the time. You know? She doesn't pay attention when she's reading, and you you can just so misinterpret the text. You know, it just doesn't and certainly not for business.

Stuart Webb [00:21:40]:

I'm gonna bring this to an end before we alienate half of the young people that Five persuaded to listen to this podcast because they need to. Jackie, it's been an absolute joy to spend time with you. I really appreciate you making a few minutes to speak with us. I'm just gonna put on the screen now the link to our newsletter. Now if you want to get on to the mailing list Webb you will get an email from me, which actually says who's coming up to talk to us on these, on these LinkedIn five and podcasts so that you get notification and you can actually think about whether or not you want to link with them or spend any time thinking about questions you'd like to put them. Go to this this URL, which is on the screen at the moment, httpscolonforward/forward/ link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. That's link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk forward slash newsletter. And, also, you will then get subscribed to the podcast when it gets released, as a second five of the cherry Webb you can listen to all of this again and rewind and listen to it as many times as you want because I think some of the stuff that Jackie has given us today are absolute nuggets of information.

Stuart Webb [00:22:53]:

They're really applicable to a number of, of the audience. Jackie, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. Really appreciate you spending

Jackie Naghten [00:23:00]:

My pleasure. And just just and just, sort of just on the point about the younger generation, I do work with a lot of, because I have young children myself. I work with a lot of young people who are often stuck in their twenties as to what they're gonna do. So I'm more than happy to talk to anybody about, you know, any any young people out there who are who are stuck and not sure which way to go. More than happy to have conversation.

Stuart Webb [00:23:21]:

Jackie, I know so many people who would take you up on that. I'm gonna point you in your direction. Thank you so much for spending some time. I know how valuable your time is because when you just talked about as much as you're doing, you must must try and cram in as much as you can. So thank you for a few minutes of your time. Really appreciate you you being with us.

Jackie Naghten [00:23:39]:

Well, thanks for the invitation, Stuart. It's been a pleasure.

Who is Jackie?

Jackie Naghten is a successful individual who has explored various businesses and disciplines throughout her life. As she approached her sixties, the idea of retirement loomed, but she was not ready to give up or stop. This led her to start investigating the concept of "unretirement" and how to continue living a fulfilling and purposeful life beyond traditional retirement age. Jackie's own experiences and insights have led her to believe that her journey can inspire and help others who may be facing similar questions about their own future.

Key Takeaways

00:00 Jacki Naghten: Unretirement speaker, change advocate, mentor.

05:48 Risieng number of older workers face discrimination.

07:26 Purpose brings satisfaction, drive to get up.

11:40 Left corporate job, became consultant, discovered skills.

16:30 Adapt to change and stay flexible.

17:26 Connecting with people is key to success.

Valuable Free Resource or Action

Connect with Jackie at Linkedin

A video version of this podcast is also at

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Transcript

Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

unretirement, retirement, business, portfolio, mentors, entrepreneurs, MD (Managing Director), narrative change, change, career, job searching, personal brand, pivot, reinvent, coaching, mentoring, purpose, human connection, networking, technology, students, boomers, generation gap, communication, newsletter, podcast, careers, workplace, relationships, personal development

SPEAKERS

Jackie Naghten, Stuart Webb

Stuart Webb [00:00:21]:

Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 Questions Over Coffee. I'm absolutely delighted today to be joined by Jackie Norton. Now they always say, if you want to improve, if you want to get better in your business, you should employ people who are better than you, and that's how I feel about my guest today. I am really delighted to be having a conversation with Jackie who has a far more impressive portfolio of of businesses and interests than I have met, and so I'm really, really delighted, Jacqui, you found time in your diary to come and join us for a few minutes. Jacqui is what they call the unretirement speaker. She revealed facts and the reality about retirement in the 2020s for the boomers and how to get to your 100 year lifespan. She mentors and supports entrepreneurs who need to pivot and grow, and if she hasn't got enough going on, she's also the MD of a business whose mission is to change the narrative around the 50 plus woman, to become the invisible increasingly disappear at that age, and she's there to change that. And and that therefore means that what is throughout all of her career, what throughout all of her passion is that of change, changing individuals, changing businesses.

Stuart Webb [00:01:36]:

The need for change, managing change, and working out what is required is absolutely one of the critical bits of business that we need in the world today. So, Jackie, delighted you've spent time to come and spend a few minutes with us. Thank you so much for for being on It's Not Rocket Science, 5 Questions, Over Coffee.

Jackie Naghten [00:01:52]:

Well, thank you very much, Stuart. I hope it isn't rocket science. I hope it's not complicated as that.

Stuart Webb [00:01:59]:

No. Nothing is complicated than that. Look, Jacqui, let's start. You talk about being an unretirement speaker. You talk about, leading them. Tell us, what is it? Who who is it that you're trying to help? I guess it's obvious, but what who is it you're trying to help to understand the these changes that you're bringing to the world?

Jackie Naghten [00:02:15]:

Well, I think like most things in life, when you have any, you know, successful people, across all sorts of businesses and disciplines, and they tell their life story. Usually things happen because of what's happened in their lives, isn't it? You know, so you tend to look at yourself and think, well, this has happened to me. You know, I'm sure it must be happening to other people. So in the case of unretirement, I'm in my sixties now. And as I've approached that time and it sort of comes upon you, you know, you're bumbling along in your forties and next thing great. So you're gonna retire now? And I'm like, no. I don't want to retire. You know, what am I gonna do? And so I started to investigate this whole idea about not retiring because when I really thought about it for myself, I thought, you know, because retirement sounds like giving up, finishing, stopping.

Jackie Naghten [00:03:05]:

It feels like the end of life and I didn't feel like that at all. And I think particularly for women Webb we've had, a lot of time caring responsibilities, you know, juggling careers, suddenly as you get to your sixties, you actually have the time that you've always wanted to do things. So I started to investigate this whole issue of unretirement, which I I came up with. And then I found that actually exists out there and people are talking about on retirement, which is really, it's actually been coined by people who are actually returning to the workforce. So they've retired and then they've spent a couple of years in retirement, had a couple of cruises, done an extension, and then they're bored and they've come back. Because the truth of the matter is that for we boomers, and let's be honest, the boomers, we've been a quite a pioneering generation. We are now this is a final frontier for us, pioneering this move into older age. And, typically, as boomers, we're knowing it like it.

Jackie Naghten [00:04:03]:

So we question it. We're having a different, approach to it. We five a different lived experience, in our lives. I mean, certainly from the female point of view, a lot of us have had careers and brought up families, which, you know, wasn't wasn't didn't happen, you know, 50, 100 years ago. So we're a pioneering generation, and it's all changing. And we can see the rock stars are still rocking. The screenwriters are still writing, the actors are still acting well into their eighties nineties. So it's all changing.

Jackie Naghten [00:04:29]:

And so it's against that backdrop that I speak about on retirement.

Stuart Webb [00:04:33]:

And I think that's a really interesting point, Jacqui, because one of the things you just sort of talked about there is it's the experience that you bring. The the the the the fact of matter is that the the people who five retire often know better than anybody coming through all those things that do work and don't work and how to make that change the most practical, the most effective, as they can be. And and it's often that experience that we lose when people just sort of go Webb go off and do the cruises and spend time at home.

Jackie Naghten [00:05:03]:

Some people are very happily retired. Since you were 16. You can't physically do the job, you know, be a roofer anymore or whatever. And some and some many people are very happy to retire and focus on family and different things. But there's an awful lot of us who don't want to do that, and there's an awful lot of people who can't do that because the retirement, the state pension age is going up. And let's be honest, not many of us can live on that state pension. It's sort of more of a, you know, it's about a £1,000 a month. If you've got 25 years to live in retirement, a £1,000 a month isn't going to give you a very, exciting stimulating life.

Jackie Naghten [00:05:48]:

So, you know, that's the facts of the matter. So we've seen it for some time that our pensioners are going back into the workforce to supplement their income. But places like B&Q, you know, have taken on older people with all their experience, etcetera. But it's actually a much bigger issue now, and we're going to have by, I think, Webb about 50, 50% of the workforce is going to be over 50. Mhmm. And so there's a couple of things going on. First of all, there's a thing for people personally, what they want to do in it the birth rate's dropping, and they're suddenly waking up to the fact they might need older people. But meanwhile, what we know is 50 plus people are finding it incredibly difficult to get back into the workforce because there is a generational, sexist, a generational ageism going on, which is the last frontier of sort of, equality in the workplace, which is something that we at noon, with my other hat on, are working on.

Jackie Naghten [00:06:44]:

So, you know, my unretirement interest and speaking about unretirement kind of has a very nice crossover with the the work I do at noon, which is all about the 50 plus women who are very keen to get back to work and think about what they're going to do as they pivot in the midlife.

Stuart Webb [00:07:00]:

And I'm so glad you brought noon in because I was about to ask, of course, what is what is noon? And so therefore, let's let's move on to sort of what it is therefore then that you've seen people who are trying to sort of cope with this on retirement. You've mentioned a couple of times people who've retired and it's not for them, so they've gone back to work. What is it that you you are trying to do to help them with that with that transition? How do you how do you help people to understand whether or not retirement is right for them?

Jackie Naghten [00:07:26]:

Well, I think, I think what we have to think about is very simple. It's what gets you out of bed in the middle? What gets you out of bed in the morning? And what doesn't get me out of bed in the morning is just thinking, oh, I'm going to see some friends for lunch and I'll maybe go to the gym later. I mean, I'm not saying that's not nice to do, but I I it's lacking a sort of purpose, a sort of satisfaction. That's what I found, you know, because I I did have a period of time when I had cancer and that enforced me to have a a year off. And I and and and while you're not very Webb, obviously, I was so frustrated because I couldn't do anything. You know, I hadn't got any point, you know, I couldn't work and all these things. And so I'm just somebody, and there's lots of us around who just like like working. I mean, lots of people work in volunteer positions because they just want to have a purpose.

Jackie Naghten [00:08:11]:

And what we know, I think it's Sigmund Freud who said, you know, there's 2 main things in life out of all of this is love and work, which is really purpose and human connection. And that, you know, that's what working can give you and that's what we as humans, you know, on the whole keeps us going. So, you know, when I say work, it doesn't necessarily have to be financially rewarding work. It could be all sorts of things, but it's finding purpose. And I think that's where people quite often need help. Because as we all know, when we try and write about ourself market, it's very difficult doing that yourself. It's much more helpful if you do it with somebody else who can interpret how you are. And that's where coaching or mentoring comes in because, I can work with people, and they they may be let's say they've been an accountant for 20, 30 years.

Jackie Naghten [00:09:00]:

All they can think about is, like, well, I'm very good with numbers. I can do accountancy, but I don't want to do it anymore. And it's very difficult for them to think, what are the other possibilities. So what I'm very good at is thinking creatively with people about the other skills and strengths that they might have that could take them in a different direction.

Stuart Webb [00:09:17]:

Takes us in so many directions actually. So I think you're absolutely right. The the meaningful connections is hugely important. I think biologists are now beginning to discuss or, you know, you you hear in the media that, loneliness can be the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. And Having those meaningful connections can extend your lifespan.

Jackie Naghten [00:09:35]:

I mean, I have to say, I have looked into an article about that. It's a slightly typically, as as you can imagine, typically, a sort of convoluted piece of data when you, you know, get underneath it because it it's not that simple, but loneliness is is an epidemic, you know. And as we live longer I mean, I'm widowed myself. As we live longer, divorce a lot of people are getting divorced in their fifties and sixties because they're thinking, if they're living till they're five and they have a non satisfactory relationship, they're actually getting divorced in their sixties, which is another reason why people often need to work because the financial pots got smaller, etcetera, etcetera. And also for women who were divorced and on their own, typically men tend to find another partner, women perhaps not. They want to go to work or they might not have worked for 10, 15 years. And so, you know, and they have no idea. You know, jobs have changed.

Jackie Naghten [00:10:26]:

The workplace has changed tremendously. And and so it's a little bit scary for, people when they're older to go back into, but they're quite keen to have that connection and to have some purpose.

Stuart Webb [00:10:38]:

So so, Jackie, if we if we if we now look at what how people can get in contact with you, I think I think you've given us your LinkedIn, your LinkedIn, and and the the Noon, which is the organization. Are there are there things that they'll find there that could be helping them to understand this transition that you're talking to people about?

Jackie Naghten [00:11:05]:

Well, certainly at noon, we have a lot of resources on there. We cover divorce, bereavement, cancer, job searching, all of those sorts of things. And there's lots of uplifting stories about, you know, all this because what we learn from in life is stories and it's always interesting to hear somebody else's Stuart. Yeah. And particularly if you're going through a tough time in your life, so for myself, I've got a you know, my story was my husband was diagnosed with a very with a terminal illness when I was 42. And I had to pivot. I had to change everything in my life. My life literally went up in the air, and I had to reinvent myself.

Jackie Naghten [00:11:40]:

I had to give up my corporate job. I went out into the world and became a consultant just based on networking really, you know, without any plan or thought. And so I've learned to market myself. I learned that I had skills I didn't realize I had, and this is I think the point of coaching, etcetera, you know, where you can you've actually got skills you don't realize you have because you think all you can do is add up numbers if, you know, do a balance sheet in accountancy. But, actually, you've got loads of other skills as well. And, actually, these are leading, problem solving, these sorts of skills, which you can apply to all sorts of things. So, you know, if you go to Noon you can find out about the Midlife Women. If you just come to my LinkedIn and connect with me then, I'm more than happy to, you know, I get all sorts of people who I meet, day to day and for various speaking engagements approaching me saying, can you help with this? Can you help with that? Because I've also worked with a lot of entrepreneurs and it's, you know, whether it's a business or a person, quite often a business falters and stutters and it might need to be reinvented or might need to take a different turn.

Jackie Naghten [00:12:49]:

And again, when you're the founder and the owner, it's quite difficult working that out. You need someone from outside to help you work that through.

Stuart Webb [00:12:57]:

Yes. Jackie, is is there a is there a a book or or course that, that really sort of helped you to understand how the unretirement world is beginning to become the new the new retire the the new work?

Jackie Naghten [00:13:13]:

Well, there's a there's a couple of things. I mean, we are, we are shortly going to be running courses at noon, about this. We're working on those at the Moment. I've got a book here which I came across or designing and I came across this about 10 years ago. I mean, that's an old version there. And it was written by 2 guys in, I think it's Stanford University in America, Bill Burnett and Dave Evans. And it absolutely fascinated me because I'm a brand person. And so because my background is retail and consumer brands.

Jackie Naghten [00:13:47]:

And, when you when you talk about brands, you're talking about brands have a sort of personality and they have values, etcetera. And what this book did, it actually looked to people as if they were brands. And so it really resonated with me. Because, actually, these days, people, you know, there's lots of chat about, you know, people talk about their personal brand. And your personal brand is just how you come how you present to the world and what your values are and what you can, you know, what you can how you can help people with. And so I would say designing your life, was all about looking at people that felt they were a square peg in a round hole, and how they could they thought just because they were interested, for example, one of the founders, the writers here. I mean, he was always as a little boy interested in marine biology. He became a marine biologist.

Jackie Naghten [00:14:37]:

So when he was about 35, he suddenly thought, I'm just not really that in this. I don't know why he's actually interested in something completely, something completely different. And quite honest, I mean, I when I was at school, I was good at languages. They said I should work in the foreign office. I would have absolutely useless as a civil servant because those are the sort of boxes, you know, we get put in boxes. And I still feel over today, the recruitment industry puts us in boxes whereas actually people have often have lots of other sides to them. So I would very much recommend that. And I would also recommend just, you know, going, if you're interested to pursue, reviewing your your your opportunities in life is to find a coach or a mentor.

Jackie Naghten [00:15:17]:

There's lots of, you know, TED Talks, for example, are an absolutely fantastic resource, which is all about telling stories about how people have embraced change and changed things. And they're very inspirational. You know? So, yeah, that would be what I would say, you know, go out. Main thing is go out into the world and connect with people. You know, I think you learn a lot by chatting to other people.

Stuart Webb [00:15:39]:

I I couldn't agree with you more. I couldn't agree with more. Look, Jackie, I kept you talking for about the last 15, 20 minutes, asking you all sorts of silly questions but there must be one question that you're thinking, well I wish you would get on to this subject. So this is my opportunity to get you to say what is the question that you would like me to have asked. Well, obviously, then when I've, got you to ask the question, you better answer it. So what's that question you would like me to have asked?

Jackie Naghten [00:16:09]:

I suppose, the question I would like you to have asked, or that I think is a good question to ask anybody, as Webb as what has been the biggest, what has made the biggest impact in your life, you know, to bring you to where you are today to to today?

Stuart Webb [00:16:25]:

That's a very good question. So so what has been that biggest impact?

Jackie Naghten [00:16:30]:

Well, I think the biggest impact is really goes back to that story I just told of when my husband was diagnosed with a with a with a illness, which is, that you never know what's around the corner. Mhmm. So, you know, I always say my big piece of advice to my well, to my kids and to anybody who gets in a bit of a twiddle and a twaddle with things is to say, have a plan, the plan can change. You know, because people get But what's a common thread through all of that? It's about change and pivoting. But what's a common thread through all of that? It's about change and pivoting. You know, either pivoting, responding to outside outside influences because something, you know, you've got divorced, you you've got cancer, whatever happened, you know, you've got a sick child, and you have to change and rethink what you're doing, or because you want to. You want something different. You want to be reenergized and do something different.

Jackie Naghten [00:17:26]:

So I think the most important thing is to realize that you, you know, you you can't that that life won't be as you plan. Have a plan, the plan can change and go out and connect, you know, people are the biggest resource that's free out there that you can connect with and just, you know, you might I mean, I'm an you know, we're probably Stuart Natural Connectors. We're doing this sort of stuff, you know, we are sort of probably I'm certainly myself an extrovert. It's not easy for everybody. Not everybody's like that, but certainly if you're not somebody and and a lot of people think, oh, networking, you know, oh, that's a load of old you know? But actually, whether you wanna call it connecting or meet networking, connecting, meeting people, for me your fellow humans are your biggest resort to make change. And, you know, you you you you can't do any any and it's free, you know, to a certain extent. You know, it might cost you a cup of coffee or some of your five. But I've never had a wasted meeting with anybody in my five.

Jackie Naghten [00:18:23]:

And you always learn something. So, you know, that's what I would really encourage people to do. I don't think people realize how, how much that can impact your life.

Stuart Webb [00:18:31]:

I think it was a brilliant thing to say and and certainly something that I'm passing on to a number of the I do some work with some students and I do with them, and I'd give them something very similar, which is, you know, if someone if someone suggests a meeting, take the meeting, you don't know what's gonna happen. You might look at it and think, well, that would be a waste of my time, but you have no idea where it's going, who they might meet,

Jackie Naghten [00:18:54]:

who they might introduce. You never know. Always learn something, and I've learned, you know, probably when I was younger, I was a bit more judgmental, you know, and I've really, really learned. And that's the one thing about older age, you get a bit more wisdom and, you have hindsight. And I would say, I don't think I've ever had a wasted meeting. Because even if you don't get the outcome from the meeting that you wanted, you people. And it's a 6 degrees of separation. You know, if all somebody you've got in common somewhere, I find it quite amazing.

Jackie Naghten [00:19:28]:

And having been on this planet now for such a long time, and recently gone back out into the world, the world of entrepreneurs and founders, I've just been talking to somebody who has a similar background to me in corp you know, I've done corporate finance and productivity. And of course, we have you know, there's all these people we have in common. It just never ceases to fascinate me. And I think your point you make about your students, obviously, the younger generation growing up in a different digital five. And I just worry for that generation sometimes. Do they realize because they do everything on technology, maybe even on Zoom, I still would rather I mean, this is lovely to do this, but it's it's wonderful to meet people in person. It is a different experience. And I think it's really important that young people understand the power of connection, not just on a WhatsApp and through, you know, all this.

Jackie Naghten [00:20:13]:

You know, my my my daughters won't even take phone calls. They don't like talking on the phone. You know, it's gotta be all this. So, you know, I I do worry for the younger generation. I would think it's really important that we make sure that they do understand the power of connection.

Stuart Webb [00:20:25]:

I wonder if we could have another 2 and a half hours on that subject. So I better close this down before we do because I know that's something that I worry a lot about working

Jackie Naghten [00:20:34]:

with you. I think all of us all of us boomers, I mean, if my daughters call me that's so boomer, you know, because I've got a I've got a desk covered in paper because I write notes with a pen, and they get all of that. Such a and then she took a picture of it and said, that's such a boomer desk because I've got paper and pens on it, you know, and they don't have anything. So I think our husbands are very worried about the the young you know, they're they're they're all doing fantastically well, but there were just certain aspects that you do worry. You know?

Stuart Webb [00:21:02]:

I am I am very concerned at the moment about a number of people I meet that don't do the don't when I say to them, have you chatted to them about that? They go, yes. Yes. And I go, well, what did they say? And they said, well, Webb didn't say anything because we did it over text. And my immediate response is never ever managed to resolve any dispute

Jackie Naghten [00:21:18]:

No.

Stuart Webb [00:21:19]:

Resolution, any negotiation over went well when you were doing emails and texts. They always needed something to

Jackie Naghten [00:21:25]:

put the coffee in the wrong place. It's completely a different statement. You know? I mean, how I mean, I have this with my best friend all the time. You know? She doesn't pay attention when she's reading, and you you can just so misinterpret the text. You know, it just doesn't and certainly not for business.

Stuart Webb [00:21:40]:

I'm gonna bring this to an end before we alienate half of the young people that Five persuaded to listen to this podcast because they need to. Jackie, it's been an absolute joy to spend time with you. I really appreciate you making a few minutes to speak with us. I'm just gonna put on the screen now the link to our newsletter. Now if you want to get on to the mailing list Webb you will get an email from me, which actually says who's coming up to talk to us on these, on these LinkedIn five and podcasts so that you get notification and you can actually think about whether or not you want to link with them or spend any time thinking about questions you'd like to put them. Go to this this URL, which is on the screen at the moment, httpscolonforward/forward/ link.thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. That's link.thecompleteapproach.co.uk forward slash newsletter. And, also, you will then get subscribed to the podcast when it gets released, as a second five of the cherry Webb you can listen to all of this again and rewind and listen to it as many times as you want because I think some of the stuff that Jackie has given us today are absolute nuggets of information.

Stuart Webb [00:22:53]:

They're really applicable to a number of, of the audience. Jackie, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us. Really appreciate you spending

Jackie Naghten [00:23:00]:

My pleasure. And just just and just, sort of just on the point about the younger generation, I do work with a lot of, because I have young children myself. I work with a lot of young people who are often stuck in their twenties as to what they're gonna do. So I'm more than happy to talk to anybody about, you know, any any young people out there who are who are stuck and not sure which way to go. More than happy to have conversation.

Stuart Webb [00:23:21]:

Jackie, I know so many people who would take you up on that. I'm gonna point you in your direction. Thank you so much for spending some time. I know how valuable your time is because when you just talked about as much as you're doing, you must must try and cram in as much as you can. So thank you for a few minutes of your time. Really appreciate you you being with us.

Jackie Naghten [00:23:39]:

Well, thanks for the invitation, Stuart. It's been a pleasure.

Who is Karen?

Karen Green is a marketing expert who has a passion for helping people sell their ideas, products, and services. She firmly believes in the principles of virology theory and how they can be applied to any sales situation, whether it's an investor pitch, business presentation, or job interview. With a focus on niche marketing, Karen helps her clients achieve their goals and reach their target audience. Her expertise extends to a wide range of industries, making her a valuable asset to anyone looking to sell more effectively.

Key Takeaways

00:00 Broad sales principles apply to various situations.

04:54 Tailoring sales approach to individual buyer preferences.

09:29 In 30 seconds, tailoring emails makes difference.

11:57 Logic and biology in business development book.

14:47 Book by former FBI negotiator with storytelling.

Valuable Free Resource or Action

Copy of Karen’s book by dropping her an email at [email protected]

A video version of this podcast is also at

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Transcript

Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

buying mindset, sales director, buyer's mindset, pricing, corporate buyers, facts and figures, virology model, human interaction, selling, personality profiling, AI, communication, prospecting, negotiation, case studies, coaching, selling toothpaste, retail, sales growth, buyer's profile, business development, webinar, Jeff Walker, B2B sales strategies, human approach, Harvard Business Review, decision making, influencing, marketing, entrepreneurship

SPEAKERS

Karen Green, Stuart Webb

Stuart Webb [00:00:21]:

Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 questions over coffee. This is a great opportunity for me to sit and chat, with somebody I'm really looking forward to a discussion with. And I do have a cup of coffee, so therefore, good opportunity for me to sit back, let her do the talking, and I'll do the coffee drinking. And today, I'm talking to Karen Green who was a buyer, with with Tesco. Five I got that right, Karen? Yes.

Stuart Webb [00:00:53]:

And then you moved into, the, the supply side where you were a sales director, and now you are an expert consultant and speaker helping us all understand the buyer's mindset and how to go about doing things like, well, pricing and buying and things like that. So, Karen, I'm really looking forward to the conversation. Welcome to it's not rocket science, 5 questions over coffee.

Karen Green [00:01:17]:

Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to it.

Stuart Webb [00:01:20]:

Terrific. Webb, okay. I guess the first thing we have to sort of dive into is is who is what is who is the person you're trying to help? What is it that we're all misunderstanding about buying that you're trying to

Karen Green [00:01:31]:

help us to understand? So on a on a broader scale, because, you know, whenever you talk to marketers, they say you should niche it down, niche it down. But on a broader scale, anybody who is trying to sell something, and you could be selling an idea to somebody, you could be selling a product or a service, or selling your business. So if you're doing an investor pitch, or even if you're trying to sell yourself for an interview, the principles behind behind the virology theory work for for any of those. So, much as, you know, my target audience is obviously, for my clients is more narrow than that, but this can work for any anybody really who wants to to sell more and sell better.

Stuart Webb [00:02:23]:

And what is it those people have done before you try and help them that that have made Webb they've made mistakes in that? Is is it just is it just not understanding the process or is it more than that?

Karen Green [00:02:37]:

It's more than that. And I and I found this statistic, and I asked lots of people. So I'll ask you the the the the number. So according

Karen Green [00:02:49]:

According to Harvard Business Review, what percentage of business to business, because that's really what I work in, business to business, corporate buyers, make the decision based on fact?

Stuart Webb [00:03:03]:

Yeah. So I'm going to have to say according to Harvard Business Review, and and I haven't read this article, but I would imagine it is a very, very low percentage. And I would imagine most people going into a buying situation think that that person buying is basing on all of the facts. And I'd imagine it's basically on whether or not you smiled or did something to make them feel good or treated them like a human or something like that.

Karen Green [00:03:29]:

You're absolutely right. So they say about 5% of

Stuart Webb [00:03:33]:

decisions That doesn't surprise me, I'm afraid. Based

Karen Green [00:03:36]:

on fact. And and that's the biggest mistake that I think I probably was making from, from day 1 of being a salesperson because, my personality is is quite fact based. I'm quite interested in in sales growth and numbers. So I would do all my research, and I'd look at the company, and I'd look at, their values and their mission and their statistics and the market share, and I would know that relatively inside out. And if I didn't, I'd usually have somebody with me who did, like a category manager. And when I was sort of putting together the the basis for my model, the virology model, I actually realized that that's only 1 third of of the of the piece. The the main part of it is, as we say, that that buyers are human. And therefore, what you've got to do is spend more time researching the person you're selling to as a human being than actually the corporation.

Karen Green [00:04:42]:

And then the 3rd pillar, which I think is quite interesting, and it's harder to research, is what is that human's interaction with the company they're working for?

Karen Green [00:04:54]:

So for example, I do a lot of work with food and drink companies selling into UK retail because that's obviously my my background. And you might get a buyer who's been there a long time, seen it all before, doesn't really wanna rock the boat, and therefore, you know, you have to think about, well, they're not looking for promotion, they're gonna be looking just to keep going. They've seen it all before. Or you might have somebody actually who's who's super ambitious, wants to change the world, quite happy to go and do things differently, and that can make quite a difference between the way you, you tailor things. So that's where you kind of if you if you'd look at all three pillars, you will have a better chance. And it means that you can take your your basic sales message, whatever that is, and and tailor it according to the person. And that's and that's the skill, that's the basis for the book, and that's the basis for what I work with clients on to to make to make the difference.

Stuart Webb [00:06:10]:

That's that's interesting. I think it's it's very reminiscent. Of my experience when I was, first first out of, what I did and and and entered a world where I was being taught to be a manager briefly before I started sort of taking taking you know, doing doing things with my own companies. But the one thing that I can remember a a manager mentor of mine saying was when I sort of provided somebody with some feedback, I was doing it based upon my understanding of something, which was all about, as you said, numbers. And and this person looked at me and said, how did they take it? And I said, well, I didn't understand. You didn't seem to care about that. He said, no. You have to tailor your message to what they care about, not what you care about.

Stuart Webb [00:06:54]:

And it was such a I sat there and thought from, well, that sounds that sounds so so ridiculous. I mean, I was I was sort of, you know, late twenties. You know, I was I was one of those sort of, you know, sitting there knowing knowing everything and then thinking, well, why on earth is this person telling me something like that? Because that's clearly rubbish. And and it was absolutely the right advice because people don't wanna hear it based upon your understanding. They wanna hear it based upon their understanding, don't they? They're and and and as as communicators, the thing that we have to remember is that communication is what the listener does, not what we do. We can we can shout it from the rooftop, but if nobody's listening, we've communicated nothing.

Karen Green [00:07:35]:

It's true. And what's exciting, I think, now is the fact that the combination of having LinkedIn and having, AI, and there's there's a couple of AI, systems you can use. I use Humanix. There's also Crystal Knows, and there's a couple of others. You can go and analyze the buyer or the the person that you wanna sell to because it might not be a corporate buyer. It must might just be your boss, for example. And you can work out their personality based on and Humanix uses the the DISC profiling. So you can then say, well, actually, I mean, I'm a I'm a relatively strong red personality.

Karen Green [00:08:16]:

So, and I remember a bit like you when I was younger at at at Tesco, my boss sitting me down and saying, you know, you went and asked accounts for us. He said, talk me through. And I went, well, I took it up like you said, and I gave it to them. And I said, I need this. And he said, did you say good morning? And I went, might have done. Did you ask them how they were? And I'm like, well, why would I? Am I interested? I don't care. And he said, I think if you built the relationship a bit better, you might understand, you know, you might come better. And I was like, oh, okay.

Karen Green [00:08:48]:

Fine. But if you if you know your personality as well so I know that I'm high red. I'm gonna get to the point quite quickly. I'm it's not entirely true because I do have a bit of eye in me as well. So I am relatively interested in people, but I think that's probably come as I've got older. And if you know your shortcomings or your purse your chosen approach, and then you use something like Humanix, which really has changed the way I do, because I obviously work with a quite a large number of clients, so I do a lot of discovery calls. And I can go on to LinkedIn. I can profile them.

Karen Green [00:09:29]:

In 30 seconds, I've got fair idea what they're gonna be five, and it just it just gives it the edge. It really does make a huge difference, to to the way I approach things. I'm not as good as I should be, you know, in terms of tailoring my emails and tailoring this, that, and the other. And and I was, I was watching a, webinar last week actually by Humanex who were talking about how, you know, if you've got a mailing list, I use Hub Spot, and you've got, say, a 1000 people on it, you can segment it by, type and and and all that kind of thing. And and, yes, I probably would do better. And their their open click rates is amazing because they do tailor it specifically to to different types. But and I'm sure once AI gets a little bit better than it you just press a button and then it will do it for us. But at the moment, it's a little bit a little bit weird for me.

Karen Green [00:10:22]:

But

Stuart Webb [00:10:23]:

I'm I'm looking forward to the day that I, that that that on on on my behalf and AI buys everything I've already decided I want. Although at the moment, I've got a son that does that for me, and I just over things appearing, through the post because he just sits and orders stuff that he's decided that I want. Well, most of the stuff is for him is just my credit card. Anyway, so look. That takes me for the next to the next thing, and I think you've got a really brilliant free offer that, that we can we can all tap into to sort of learn some of this stuff. And and for this moment now, I'm going to show this ticket because I believe you have got a really valuable free offer, which I'm really excited about.

Karen Green [00:11:08]:

So so yes. I wrote, my this is my second book actually, Recipe for Success, which was aimed at at food companies. It's available on Amazon if if you are interested. But this is a broader book. This is around know your buyer, sell more, and and sell better. And the first third of the book does go into understanding the why. So, you know, understanding why why are people more likely to be human in a corporate decision making, situation than than driven by by facts and figures. And then it I get into the the disc profiling and different ways that you can actually work out who your who your customer is and and to think about the 3 3 pillars.

Karen Green [00:11:57]:

Because, you know, at the beginning, I was saying we tend to focus on that 3rd pillar about, well, the the logical bit. We still need the logic because if we don't have the logic, then the rest of it will will fall apart because we still you know, there there still needs to be that factual basis. And and then the final part of the book is thinking about, well, how do you go out and do all those different things to do within business development and sales, such as prospecting, sending the cold emails, having the meetings, closing the sale, getting repeats. All of that part is there, but but with the underpin of of how do you tailor it and how do you use biology to make difference. So that's that's the book. It is a it is available on Amazon, but, yes, if you drop me a line, I will arrange for and an address, actually. I'll need your address at the same

Stuart Webb [00:12:50]:

time.

Karen Green [00:12:51]:

So so

Stuart Webb [00:12:52]:

drop an drop a a request and an address to karen@buyerology, that's buyeroldoydot co.uk. And that will be winging its way to you, which is a fantastic free offer. I love it.

Karen Green [00:13:09]:

Yeah. Please please do. I'll get get the message out because I'm really I am genuinely very passionate about what I do, and I think, the more people can who who get that understanding. Yeah. And as I say, you don't have to be an entrepreneur or in business for it to be useful. I mean, you know, some of some of the I don't know whether when toddlers actually get their their, personality. In fact, I should look that up because I've never thought about that. I've always thought, you know, if you're gonna sell something to a toddler, then that's probably and succeed.

Karen Green [00:13:43]:

Selling an idea to a toddler is is probably the hardest thing you'll ever do.

Stuart Webb [00:13:47]:

Well, I think is it is it it's not it's it's an old truism that we're all selling all the time over if you're what you're trying to do is persuade your your significant other to go out to the cinema. There's a there's a there's a there's an interaction of selling and buying interaction going on there, and it's just it's continuous, and we all ought to be better at it, I guess.

Karen Green [00:14:08]:

Yeah. Absolutely. It's it's it's

Stuart Webb [00:14:10]:

Makes make would make for happier relationships, I suspect, if we did actually do some of that. So, was there a particular book or course that actually sort of started you to to to think about? Obviously, other than the 2 books that you've mentioned that you wrote, but was there a particular book, of course, that actually, started you in this journey about understanding how buying be is such an important part of five.

Karen Green [00:14:34]:

So I would say the the best book I've ever read on this is Never Split the Difference. Five I've forgotten who wrote it now. Oh, god.

Stuart Webb [00:14:46]:

I didn't know.

Karen Green [00:14:47]:

I was looking on my shelf to see if I had it, and I think it's it's packed away because I've been it'll come back to me in a minute. But it's written by, he was an FBI negotiator, so he's not he wasn't at the time a commercial person. I mean, he does do a lot of training now. But it's a brilliant book because he does it there's a lot of storytelling in it, and he does talk about negotiating with with hostage situations and things like that. So it is quite interesting, but then he does get into, you know, how to negotiate a a pay five or how to negotiate, with your with your significant other as you're describing. It is a really good book, and it will come to minimum as to who's written it. It's it's a major major major major bestseller.

Stuart Webb [00:15:37]:

But that's, that's interesting, isn't it? Because once again, that you know, it's I I think we're discovering, you know, not that all buying situations are hostage taking situations, but I can understand what the the the the, the the links between those 2 because, obviously, what we've got is 2 people who are trying to reach some sort of an agreement, and I I guess Stuart the normal agreement is the price or whatever over you're gonna pay.

Karen Green [00:16:01]:

It's Chris Fox, by the way. I've just looked it up. Okay. But yeah. And and the point of the book, Over Split the Difference, I think is is a really good one because it's it is a technique that I've seen when I I was, Yeah. When I was working with Tesco. So they'll say, well, we want 50% margin. And you think, well, actually, I was only going in for, like, 30.

Karen Green [00:16:26]:

So if they say, let's split the difference, that's 40. But, actually, your toppest, toppest might be 38. So for them to go, let's split the difference because they've set this ridiculously high target figure to start with is is really poor. And and I actually do use it that thought process a lot where someone moves if someone says to me let's split the difference, I always say no. Just

Stuart Webb [00:16:52]:

Just to see what happens?

Karen Green [00:16:54]:

Chris said. Chris said say no.

Stuart Webb [00:16:58]:

How fantastic.

Karen Green [00:16:59]:

That's funny.

Stuart Webb [00:17:00]:

Get out of that situation?

Karen Green [00:17:04]:

Well, it's you then have to look at the reasons why you wouldn't split the difference. It's quite hard actually because some people think it's think it they're being generous. They go, well, should we you know, if you're buying a car and they'll say, well, should we split the difference? Or I've had clients I have one recently where someone was saying, well, can we split the difference? I Webb, oh, no. No. Because because because you're asking a map. You were asking too much to start with. But you gotta be careful because then that seems a bit rude.

Stuart Webb [00:17:33]:

I love it. Oh, we could talk for this on our list, but we better not. We better not because I think, 1, it would it would eliminate any, any reason for anybody to to try and get your book, and they definitely should get your book. So I'm going to ask you the final question, which is obviously, Five been asking questions and you've obviously beautifully answered them, but there must be a question that you wish I had answered and I haven't yet. So, Karen, what's the question that I should have asked you? And, obviously, you know the answer better than anyone else, so you better answer it for us as well.

Karen Green [00:18:05]:

What's what's the evidence that biology works? I think is

Stuart Webb [00:18:11]:

the best. That's a lovely question. I think it's a lovely question. Is there a good case study that you can bring us?

Karen Green [00:18:18]:

There's there's there's lots there's lots of of case studies I can bring. Certainly, over the last 2 or 3 years, I've had clients come along to me, and they've they've they've said, oh, this is my business and this is it, and I will turn on. I can remember one in particular. And I said, you don't really enjoy right running this business, do you? Because you really don't like selling because you're actually a real nice people person. And she went, you've only spoken to me for 5 minutes. How do you know that? And she got quite but she was very impressed. And we did end up working together for a very long time. And I did obviously explain to her afterwards.

Karen Green [00:19:00]:

I said, well, I've just profiled you, and and you're definite a very green person, and you like getting on with people. And and and therefore, you you know, to to sit across a buyer is gonna be really hard. So what you need is someone like me to protect you and go in and do it for you. And that's what I do actually with with a number of my clients. So so that kind of is an example of of the beginning of of of how it works. But, certainly, at the moment, I'm doing a lot more selling than I would normally do, on behalf of clients. I normally just coach, but I've got a couple of people who came to me and said, well, would you do it for me who are not born sellers? And, yeah, I'm having a lot of fun with it actually Stuart adapt, to the different personalities, and we're I'm off to see, Boots actually on Thursday sitting on the other side of the desk selling toothpaste. So it's gonna be quite interesting.

Stuart Webb [00:19:59]:

Fantastic. Fantastic. Karen, I mean, my immediate response my immediate response is I can't I can't believe, that you won't get 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 of requests for that book because, Well, if I

Karen Green [00:20:11]:

get 1,000,000 and 1,000,000, then we'll have to put we'll have to put, like, no more than 50 p 50 will be given away because, we don't want the repeat of, was it? Right.

Stuart Webb [00:20:21]:

There that is that is your that is your your challenge, people watching at the moment. And And if you're watching on replay, you may already be too late. Get that email to karen@birology, b u y erology.co.uk immediately to get your free copy of that book because I think, Karen, that is a brilliant message. I love what you've been telling us. I love the way that you're helping to peep get people. And I really appreciate you spending a few minutes with us, today.

Karen Green [00:20:54]:

Thank you for having me. I've really enjoyed it. It's been great.

Stuart Webb [00:20:56]:

Lovely. Now look. If you would like to get, an email from me letting you know about the wonderful people that are coming up on this podcast so you can watch five and get in before the offers disappear, send, go to this link, which is link.thecompleteapproach.c0.ukforward/newsletter. That puts you onto our letter list. We will be sending you an email, which gives you information about the upcoming webinars, the upcoming LinkedIn lives Webb you will hear wonderful people like Karen speak. And, Karen, I just wanna thank you once again for coming on and, spending a few minutes, certainly educating me, and I really appreciate it.

Karen Green [00:21:37]:

Thank you very much. Thank you. You've been great.

Who is Tracy?

Tracy Borreson has a background in corporate marketing but found that the industry lacked authenticity. Determined to change that, she left the corporate world and started TLB Coaching, a business centered around having real conversations and helping companies find their unique DNA. Tracy believes that the standard approach of giving easy instructions and expecting success doesn't work, and instead focuses on helping people figure out what they would do in any given situation. Whether it's through in-person networking events or marketing advisory services, Tracy's mission is to bring authenticity back to the marketing industry.

Key Takeaways

00:00 Marketing professional seeks authenticity and unique approach.

06:49 Choosing convenience over joy can diminish experiences.

10:30 "Need for communication and understanding client problems."

13:16 Target niche markets efficiently to save money.

16:41 Personal brand campfire: audio meditation experience.

18:23 Book recommendation: "The One Thing" - Focus

22:37 Trade show success is about creating experience.

26:46 Embrace failure, learn, nobody died, keep going.

29:15 Failure is necessary for learning and growth.

Valuable Free Resource or Action

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandsthatspeak/

A video version of this podcast is also at

https://youtube.com/live/nO8zKIPa2-E?feature=share

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Transcript

Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Personal branding, Authenticity, Marketing strategies, Customer engagement, Business development, Digital space, Authentic insights, Customer needs, Education-based marketing, Targeted approach, Sustainable marketing, Meaningful relationships, Sales, Customer experience, DNA and actions, Authentic marketing, TLB coaching, Sales strategies, Meaningful activities, Personal brand campfire, Authentic expression, The One Thing, The Art of Gathering, Human connection, Community building, Productive day, Mentor advice, Asking the right questions, Business growth, Mistakes in marketing

SPEAKERS

Tracy Borreson, Stuart Webb

Stuart Webb [00:00:20]:

Hi, and welcome back to It's Not Rocket Science, 5 questions over coffee. I'm here at the moment. I've actually just finished my drink, but I should be getting another one very soon. I'm here with Tracy, who is obviously well caffeined up. Hi, Tracy. Really good to see you. Tracy is a, is is is really into the authenticity, particularly in the digital space, and, runs, TLB coaching, which I'm sure we'll get to, in the in the future. And she's really, all about trying to make your, your, brand, your your personal brand to become the leading way in which you engage with others.

Stuart Webb [00:01:01]:

So, Tracy, welcome to It's Not Rocket Science 5 questions, have a coffee. Looking forward to this conversation enormously.

Tracy Borreson [00:01:08]:

Me too, Stewart. I've for since the 1st time we chatted, one, I love the whole concept of it's not rocket science. So, hopefully, we don't make it too complicated for people to say.

Stuart Webb [00:01:17]:

Well, look. It's it's it's I always say to people, business is is so easy. Why do we overcomplicate things? And and for me, marketing is is simple as well. People people worry so much about, you know, the the terms and things like that. So talk to me a little bit about what it is you try and do to help people. What is it that you're trying to do with TLB coaching?

Tracy Borreson [00:01:37]:

So my background is marketing, and I was in the corporate marketing arena for a long time. And one of the things that I didn't experience very much of there was authenticity, which as defined by me is people doing and saying what they would do or say, when they would would want to do and say it. And so I kinda meandered around the marketing industry for a long time trying to find my place of where I could have this conversation, and I didn't find it. So I left corporate, started TLB coaching, and it's all about being in the conversation about what would you do. So I believe that every business has a unique DNA, and while the current environment that we live in is very much about one of ease and simplicity and let me just tell you what to do and you can do it and you'll be fine, The problem is is that doesn't work. It doesn't work the majority of the time. Sometimes you get lucky, but the majority of the time, it doesn't work. And so in everything we do at TLP Coaching, whether that is an in person networking event to actually, like, be a marketing advisory services we provide, It's all about helping people figure out what would you do.

Tracy Borreson [00:02:57]:

What would your business do? I did this post on LinkedIn yesterday that I was super annoyed about, because people have started using the, like, service request form on LinkedIn to pitch. And I was like, for real? I got 2 in the same day. So, like, clearly, someone is telling people this is what they should do. Right? This is a way to hack the new LinkedIn so you don't have to have a paid membership or whatever. But just like, would you do that? Would you? Or would you not? Because if you wouldn't do that, then you don't have to do it. And just helping people get back to honestly, I think it's a personal confidence thing or a business confidence thing. Personal confidence creates business confidence. Would you do that? And if you wouldn't do that, honestly, it doesn't even matter if everybody else in your industry is doing it because if you wouldn't do it, you're either going to, a, do it in a completely undedicated way that's not gonna work for you, or 2, you're gonna do something else which makes you stand out from the industry, and that's really what we're trying to do in marketing anyway.

Tracy Borreson [00:04:04]:

So Yeah.

Stuart Webb [00:04:06]:

Yeah. I was, I was on a, a meeting with a a bunch of other company directors recently, and we were talking about the disconnect of marketing in organizations and talking about the fact that so often, you know, marketing is doing something which, you know, then can't be delivered by by by sales and can't be delivered by operations. And as a result, what you end up with is marketing fighting and saying to people, but we should be doing this. And the answer is, yeah, that might be what you want. But, unfortunately, the rest of the organization can't do it. You're just making yourselves look unauthentic as you say or end up in a situation where there's there's infighting, and it's not collaborative. And as a result, what do you end up with? You just you've somebody looks at the marketing and goes, great. I'd like that experience.

Stuart Webb [00:04:50]:

But when they get delivered that product or service, it doesn't match what they believed, and they will they will then just turn off. And that would that'll be that'll be the end of their their interaction with that that particular company. So being authentic is so important to the whole experience that you have, not only the marketing, but how it gets delivered, whether the salespeople can sort of live up to the promises. It has to be one thing that everybody can can can live to.

Tracy Borreson [00:05:13]:

Yeah. It's a it's a we exercise. And the we is marketing and sales and customer experience and operations and the delivery truck drivers and whoever else is involved in this company going to market. And it's also the we in the ideal customers and partners and vendors and, like, all of these things. This is a we exercise, and it's something that it's it's just very interesting. It it I'm not gonna say it's not complex because the more people you a thing, the more complex the interrelationships between humans become. But at the end of the day, this is about, okay, we are all here for one reason. There's a famous quote by a, janitor at NASA who was at like, what do you do here? And he is like, putting a man on the moon.

Tracy Borreson [00:06:10]:

Like, that's what we're doing here. And we all have our different roles in that, but when you have that kind of commitment from a we, then, like, it makes a huge difference and not that makes it huge difference internally, which then makes a huge difference externally.

Stuart Webb [00:06:27]:

And and we sort of strayed into it, Tracy, but, you know, at this stage, it's sort of you know, what is it you see people doing, which which, you know, we've sort of talked about it a little bit where where it is unauthentic, where people are not doing something which which is authentic to their to their marketing efforts and somehow makes it look as if they're liars?

Tracy Borreson [00:06:49]:

I mean, quite honestly, I think a lot of the times, it comes back to doing the easy thing. And if you're just listening, I used air quotes in there because it's sold to you as if it's the easy thing, as if you just do this. I have this ex like, personal example that I always reference, which is, like, I hand chop nuts almost every day to go in yogurt or granola or whatever. I I and I like to do it. It makes me feel like a top chef, and I am very far from a top chef. Let's put it that way. And my dad was at my house once, and he was observing me chopping these nuts, and he was like, you need a slap chop. And I was like, I mean, a slap chop would make this easier, and it would make it faster, but it would also take away all of the joy that I have in doing the activity.

Tracy Borreson [00:07:45]:

And so I have not got one. I told him not to buy me one because he's also the type of guy who would be helpful and just get you one. And it's like, no. I like to do I like to do this, and this is the thing where we're, like, so caught up in this ease of use conversation because we just everything want everything to be faster. We want everything to be more simple, and we miss that we're trading away what is meaningful for us to do those things, and then we have businesses who are in business using their marketing departments to just convince people that what you need is my easy thing. Right? You you don't have my easy thing. It fixes all your problems, except most people don't know enough why they have a problem to answer that question, to say, like, yeah. That actually fixes my problem because in my scenario, I don't have a problem.

Tracy Borreson [00:08:38]:

I don't have a problem with chopping nuts. Right? So now your slap chop is irrelevant to me because I don't have a problem with that activity and but the people in this scenario, the company, put yourself in my nut shopping shoes as a business, you don't know enough about what your problem is to say, I don't need your slap show. Right? Like, I don't need your website design services. I don't need your podcast production services. I don't need wherever. I I don't know what I need. So the answer is really in that, like, going back to basics and saying, like, what's the problem here? Because the problem is our problem isn't we'd need to chop nuts faster. That's not our problem.

Tracy Borreson [00:09:26]:

What's our problem? Okay. Let's go to market and see what's out there to fix that problem and let or from the flip side, if you're not looking at it from, like, marketing perspective, now you have really good clarity on the problem. You fix for people, and you tell the market it. Right? Yeah. No. I don't know how many slabchops have been sold. A lot of them. Right? There are lots of people out there who have problems chopping nuts.

Tracy Borreson [00:09:52]:

Sure. Get a Slack job. I don't have 1 though, so that's not the prob that's not a problem for me. There are problems I have, but it's not that problem.

Stuart Webb [00:10:02]:

Yeah. There are so many people that sort of you know, and I I come across this with people who are teaching lead generation. I'm I'm using air quotes as well now. So we're we're all into the lead generation, lead generation services on LinkedIn, which is, you know, the first thing you have to do is sort of, say hello. And then immediately, the message goes back where where you know, hello. And then do you want such and such? You know, I get I must get I don't know how many a day. I've sort of, you know we've seen your podcast. You must need podcast production services.

Stuart Webb [00:10:30]:

My answer is, hang on a minute. You haven't even asked me whether or not that's a problem. You don't know yet whether or not that's my problem. I have problems, but you haven't actually even bothered to reach out and find out whether or not. And I was talking to, you know, a client actually today who was who was actually sort of saying, you know, about their the the the they've they're trying to gen they're trying to write a course for a for a particular standard. And and I said said, well, you know, are are customers coming to you and asking for this course? And his answer was, well, they have they do once we've told them they need it. And I said, and why don't they need it? And he said, well, we're dealing with industrial places, and they're all using the domestic standard, and they don't know that there's an industrial standard. And so the first thing they come to us to say is, can you can you, can you implement this regulation? And they go, yeah.

Stuart Webb [00:11:23]:

We can, but, actually, you need this one. And they go, oh, why do we need that one? And then they start the education, and he said we it's only after they've we've engaged with them and started talking to them that they recognize that what they initially thought they wanted isn't what they want. And that some somehow and I sort of said, like, I love the way you're doing it, but the major problem you've got at the moment is that you haven't yet engaged with the number of people that actually have a problem and don't know they've got a problem. It's exactly what you were saying. Too many people are reaching out and sort of basically trying to thrust down the throat. You that'll solve your problem. You don't even know you got a problem yet, so they're trying to reeducate their educate their their market, which is proving to be the the the thing which is gonna cost them the most, but it's gonna be the most profitable in the end.

Tracy Borreson [00:12:08]:

Well and I think that's that is exactly the point. Right? And is that the thing that's gonna be all most profitable for everybody in the end? No. A lot of people go to market with this education component assuming that if I educate you, then you will buy what I need, but this is not then really education, right? This is persuasion, so let's call it what it is, and it's not that it, it's not that it can't work. Right? It can work. It has worked. It has worked on me, right, but is that what you can find yourself committed to doing for the long term? And these are the things about, like, like, the lead gen on LinkedIn is that, like, this strategy is based on I call spray and pray. And I spray my message everywhere, and I pray that it lands with somebody because there are people out there that have a problem, but I am not doing anything intentionally to find a person who has a problem. I'm just spraying the market with stuff.

Tracy Borreson [00:13:16]:

When you have a very small percentage of the market that has your problem, you're gonna spend a lot of money on that strategy before you find somebody, and if you're a business that doesn't have a lot of money, including the time you're paying somebody to do those activities to do that, then that's probably not the right strategy for you. Can it work? Sure. I'm more of a fan of the shoot the fish in the barrel analogy. You got all these fish in a barrel and, well, I'm not trying to shoot people, but, like, everything is sounds like I'm very into guns, and I'm Canadian, and I'm not, but it's like but these are the points. Right? Like, that's more of a me. I wanna, like, kinda wrap people in a community, and then I wanna see if there's something in there that is is is worth mining instead of, like, I wanna go out and, like, just and so the the secret there is in being able to say, I don't wanna do that. Somebody who tells you I had this guy once on LinkedIn, and I've, like, referenced him pretty much every conversation trying to convince me that if I don't do prerecorded video, I will never have a successful business. And I was like, I hate prerecorded video.

Tracy Borreson [00:14:32]:

I just don't believe what you're saying, and you should spend your energy somewhere else convincing someone else who is opening to listen to you because it's not gonna be me. You can try and peer pressure me all you want. I will never believe what you're saying and just move on, and, again, it's not that, like, video is bad. Right? It's just not something I'm ever gonna do because I'm totally uncomfortable with it. I waste a huge amount of time doing it. It's not for me. So being able to stand up for what's not for you, what is for you when someone else is telling you that that is bunk, and you're like, well, I've built an entire funnel based off them that works for me, and you have the confidence to say, this is my way of doing it, then we're into the realm where you can have a sustainable growth focused marketing program.

Stuart Webb [00:15:20]:

Brilliant. Tracy, there must be some stuff that you've got on, your websites and things like that. Is there a is there a one particular thing that you find that most people would be most interested in that that talk to them about, you know, some valuable advice that you could give. And I I put your LinkedIn profile on the screen, which is linkedin.com/in/brands that speak. Is it is it is it stuff that you you you we should know about that you give away and help people to understand how to do this sort of thing?

Tracy Borreson [00:15:52]:

So the first thing that I personally love is my LinkedIn live show, which is called the Crazy Stupid Marketing Show, which Stewart is gonna be on in the future. The show is based on helping people understand what they're doing from a marketing perspective that is crazy and stupid and not going to lead you in the direction you wanna go and opening the door to perhaps more empowering perspectives that can allow you to do things that are more meaningful and more sustainable for your business. So that is one of the things I love to do. It's on Tuesday afternoons, depending on where you are in the world. It's on. Actually, I have a guest from, Australia later today, and it's technically Wednesday morning for him. But, anyway, it's it's it's a show, and it's on LinkedIn. You can find it.

Tracy Borreson [00:16:41]:

You can also find it on YouTube. Crazy stupid marketing. The other thing that I really love to do, and I do this with, a lot of the workshops that I host, is something called I mean, I call it the personal brand campfire. You can do it equally from a business perspective too. It is an audio experience. It's available on my website, and what it does is it's it's kinda like a meditation that helps get you re centered on who you are and how you show up, and then using that as a foundation allows you to choose marketing strategies, sales strategies, narratives. What I mean, honestly, you could use it to start your day and have a productive conversation with your kids. It helps you get realigned to what would you do and what does it feel like to be in your most authentic expression of yourself and how can you start with that visualization and let it roll out into your day, into whatever you're going to do that day.

Tracy Borreson [00:17:46]:

It could be goal setting. It could be KPIs. It could be pretty much anything. It's about starting from you. So that is something that's available on my website. People can feel free to go and download that. I think it's like a 4 and a half minute thing, audio experience, and, yeah, give it a try. I have some clients who, like, do it every morning.

Stuart Webb [00:18:07]:

Brilliant. What was it that re initially got you, or or or or is there a valuable book or something that you recommend your clients read or that you read yourself that that sort of helps to to center people around authentic marketing?

Tracy Borreson [00:18:23]:

I have 2, and neither of them are actually marketing related books. So the first one is a book I recommend to pretty much everybody that I meet. Again, regardless of whether you are running your own business or you're just a human doing life, it's called The One Thing, and it's a book about focusing on what's important. So again, whether you're trying to do that from a business perspective or a life perspective, it's very empowering. The central question of the book is what is the one thing I can do right now that will make all other things easier or unnecessary? And as soon as I heard that, I was like, this is genius. This is going to be my life. Yeah. It's a great idea.

Tracy Borreson [00:19:06]:

And you will be surprised. Right? I'm like, you can look at what can you do in your, like, list of chores at home? What are the things that you can do with your kids? What are the things you can do in your business? What are the things you can do in your marketing? It is really, like, a very global question that is very, very empowering, allows you to get back to the simplicity of that. Secondly, a book called The Art of Gathering, and so

Stuart Webb [00:19:33]:

to me

Tracy Borreson [00:19:34]:

yeah. Okay. So I love it. I have it on repeat on my Audible. It is a book about people being together. And so for me, I believe that marketing is about creating a community of people, and so that is tied into the art of gathering. And whether you're hosting events or you're looking at this from a marketing perspective or you're having a birthday party or what have you, this book brings about so many interesting ideas of what it looks like for humans to connect with humans, and that is one of the things that I like the most about it.

Stuart Webb [00:20:12]:

I have made a note of the book of The Art of Gathering, and I love the idea behind that. That is one that we'll be getting, that will be getting into my, my bookshelves very soon. And on that one thing, you know, the what a mentor of mine said to me many years ago, they they they they sat me down, and they I'm you know? This was back in the days when I was, a a young young young, you know, research student.

Tracy Borreson [00:20:36]:

So yesterday?

Stuart Webb [00:20:37]:

Back yesterday. Yeah. And they turned around to me and they said, look. If you can get one thing done tomorrow morning before 11 o'clock, that means you've moved forward 1 step. The rest of the day, you can take off. And if you get 2 things done by doing it by 11 and then 1 after 11, you've almost brought yourself back a new day. And I sat there and I thought one thing by 11 o'clock, I can do that. I can do 1 thing by 11 o'clock, and it's become a habit.

Stuart Webb [00:21:08]:

You know, I sit down at the end of every evening. I sit down and I write the one thing that I'm gonna do tomorrow morning before I get onto my emails, before I do anything else, before I receive a telephone call or anything, I'm gonna do that one thing that moves the business forward. And then if I achieve it by 11 o'clock, the rest of the day is mine. I can take the rest of the day off if I like, or I can try and do a second thing. And it's such a simple idea, isn't it, to do one thing? Just one. But it's possible. Your brain can compute one thing.

Tracy Borreson [00:21:40]:

It's true. Although I will also say having be being a check a checklist person, there's a lot of things that we put on a list that we do that aren't meaningful.

Stuart Webb [00:21:54]:

Yeah.

Tracy Borreson [00:21:54]:

That aren't meaningful to the relationship we're building, that aren't meaningful to the businesses we're building. And I think that is probably the toughest arena to explore is that you could go from doing a 100 things that are not meaningful in one day to doing one meaningful thing.

Stuart Webb [00:22:14]:

Yeah. You're right. You're absolutely right. The seek one of the secrets I learned when I was doing 1 training course is I did a statistical thing, and I turned around and said, you mean the important thing is to ask the right question? And he went, yes. That's it. It's asked the right question. You can ask a 1000000 questions and get an answer. But unless you've asked the right question, every answer you've got is wrong.

Tracy Borreson [00:22:37]:

It's so true. I remember having this conversation with 1 of the ladies who is on my show, and she got this opportunity to, have a booth at a trade show, and so she had asked me. She's like, okay, I know you know about, like, what are what are the things someone would normally have at a trade show booth? And I was like, well, some of the things people would normally have at a trade show booth are a table and some chairs and some swag and a banner and a video with rotating video of your cup like, this is what people would typically have, but is that what you would have? And she was like, ugh. No. Okay. That's the point. Right? The the point is the question isn't what should I have. Right? Like, it's what what what would I create? Right? What experience do you want people to take away of you from this trade show? Do you want to just do what everybody else is doing, or do you want to look different? And, like, this is my people.

Tracy Borreson [00:23:37]:

We're talking about, so, obviously, she wants to look different, but, like, these are these are the things, and also this is why I believe it's so powerful to be surrounded by a community of people who are curious in that nature. What would you do? This is the thing I always think about. Even when it like I was young, I had nobody ask me that question. Right? I I went into the program. People told me what I should do. This is a good idea. I I did that for a very long time. Got to the point where I was like, well, that's not what I could do.

Tracy Borreson [00:24:07]:

Then had to figure out, what would I do? I'm still in the process of figuring out what I would do. I feel like this is a lifelong journey. But when you surround yourself with people asking you what you would do instead of surrounding yourself with people telling you what you should do, your experience from a personal and a business perspective changes, dress.

Stuart Webb [00:24:26]:

Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. Look, Tracy, up until now, I've been doing all the work asking you all these questions, and there must be a question that you're thinking to yourself. Hey. He hasn't asked me about such and such. So what is that 1 question that I should be asking you? And, of course, once I've, you once you've asked that question, you're you're gonna need to answer it for

Tracy Borreson [00:24:46]:

us. You know, it's funny because I knew this question was coming, and then I feel like I kinda, like, answered my own questions the way along because that's how I do. But I think one of the most powerful things in this process is, like, how do you move? Like, how do you go from where you are today to having confidence in the way you would do things? So that's the question I will ask myself. My answer is practice. You have to practice. It's yeah. So I grew up playing competitive basketball. We're city champions when I was in high school, and so, I mean, it's cities.

Tracy Borreson [00:25:28]:

It's not like, woo, the biggest thing, but it was a championship basketball team And a lot of the times I look at what are the difference between a championship team and a not championship team? And almost always, it's because of practice. Mhmm. Yeah. And it's not also because of just, like, individual practice. A whole bunch of players can go out and practice alone and it doesn't mean that your team is going to jail. It was a we activity and we practiced. We practiced and we ran and we did stairs. We did sprints and we shot free throws and, like, I don't even know.

Tracy Borreson [00:26:02]:

I kinda wish I had counted how many free throws I have shot in my life so that I could get to the point where I can shoot 80% from a free throw line. Like, it doesn't happen the 1st time you shoot the ball. Right? It doesn't, and so many times in business and from a marketing perspective and from a personal development perspective, we think we get this idea. Right? Okay. I'm gonna be authentic. I'm gonna go and and and do it my way, and then we don't because we don't know how to do that.

Stuart Webb [00:26:32]:

Yeah.

Tracy Borreson [00:26:33]:

So you have to go idiot. To the basketball court and shoot. You have to shoot, and you have to miss. You have to get it wrong. There's no 100 percents here. So practice. You gotta practice.

Stuart Webb [00:26:46]:

And and fail. You know? Sometimes sometimes you have to allow yourself to fail because I I said this sorry. Once again, I said this to another client recently who turned around and said something along the lines of what happens if it doesn't work? And I said, do you know how a baby learns to walk? A baby learns to walk by getting up, falling on their backside, and thinking, well, I'm not gonna do that again. I'll do it different. And you don't learn and get it right by by just waiting and waiting and waiting until eventually it becomes right. You have to get out, do something, practice it, and if it goes wrong, well, okay. That's one way that you don't do it the next time. And even if it does go wrong, nobody died.

Tracy Borreson [00:27:28]:

Well and especially okay. I had a boss once working in marketing. He used to always say, we're not saving babies, which I 1, just resounded with me, 1, because my mom was a neonatal nurse, so it was actually her job to save babies. It has never been my job to save babies. Also, I can't handle the sight of blood, and my mom is a nurse. I don't know. Person. There's no problem, but, like, we're from a marketing perspective, folks, like, this is not if you are doing flyers and they don't go out till Tuesday when they were supposed to go out on Monday, doesn't matter.

Tracy Borreson [00:28:09]:

Right? Like, it just doesn't matter. And maybe maybe you learn like, okay. Yeah. They do need to go out on Monday to give people enough time to know because there's people like me who don't check their mailboxes for, like, 2 weeks, which is yeah. That's a thing I do. I have the worst checking my mail. Don't mail me something important, folks, unless you're gonna tell me it's coming. But, like, you learn from getting it wrong, and if you aren't, if you aren't, then you're just a baby who lies there.

Tracy Borreson [00:28:38]:

You're not even a baby who learned how to crawl. Right? Babies learned how to crawl. They learned how to walk. They learned how to ride a bike. They learned how to run. Right? Like, that's a that's a staged methodology, and if you don't experiment at the very first step, you are never going to get to running. So if you are hoping that there's some kind of magic that exists to take you from stage 0, lying there flat on your back like a baby in your marketing, all the way up to running and beating your competitors ahead of all your competitors in the market, it has to come from experimentation. You have to experiment and you have to get it wrong.

Tracy Borreson [00:29:15]:

You have to fall down. So if you also are looking for someone who's, like, going to promise you that this is going to work a 100% of the time and it's not a thing, guys, because you haven't done it before. That same that same methodology hasn't been tried on by your body type, so you don't know that it gets until you try it on, and then you're like, oh, no. This doesn't fit. Let's not do that. But I did kinda like that. Like, I like the color of that shirt, but I don't like the cut of that shirt. So I'm gonna look for more shirts that are that color, but not that same kind of This is how humans get learn how to walk.

Tracy Borreson [00:29:51]:

It's how we choose clothes. It's this is the same methodology for your marketing as well.

Stuart Webb [00:29:57]:

Tracy, yep. I I I love the ideas. I love that. We think we could go on for hours, but we better let you get back to doing something important, and meeting with your customers. Folks, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna wrap up. And and now if you wanna go to, this link, h t t p s, colon forward slash forward slash link .thecompleteapproach.co.ukforward/newsletter. That's link .thecompleteapproach.co.uk forward slash newsletter. Fill out the form there.

Stuart Webb [00:30:25]:

Get onto the newsletter list so that you can get an email from me with some of the brilliant people that we're gonna have on in the future, like Tracy. I'm gonna give you words of wisdom like this. You can't believe. Tracy, thank you so much for spending some time with us. You have such an infectious attitude and such an infectious spirit. I love what you're saying. I really believe if you can't get authentic with you, you can't get authentic with anybody. So thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us.

Stuart Webb [00:30:51]:

I look forward to hearing what people think about what you've said and, being authentic with it.

Tracy Borreson [00:30:58]:

Awesome. Thank you for the opportunity,